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Do you think the “Plan B” morning-after pill should be sold over the counter?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on August 25, 2006

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Photo of Morgan Fulmer

“No. I don’t think so. If a child has been conceived, no matter what stage it’s in, I think it’s murder to end that life.”

Photo of James Moore

“Yeah it probably should be, because people are going to buy it anyway. So I think they should have age restrictions and keep it legal and accessible.”

Photo of Melanie Wayland

“I don’t think it should be sold at all. It’s just too much of an easy way out.”

Photo of Stacy Bowman

“I’m not really for it, but I could see where situations could arise where it would be useful. I like the idea of people having a choice, but I also think kids have a right to come into the world.”

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oldfashiongirl 11 years, 9 months ago

Morning ya'll,

This is my big day! I reached my big old 80th birthday today! Don't feel a day older than 18.

No, I don't think the Plan B pill should be sold over the counter. It's still abortion as I see it.

Gotta go, have 10 presents to open and have to meet xome folks for breakfast. Have a great day.

GOPConservative 11 years, 9 months ago

Praise God! The big-brother socialists lost another battle. Chalk up another victory for the American principles of freedom and liberty.

As usual, the theocratic-socialists have spread lies. Plan B is not an "abortion pill." It prevents fertilization for those who do not choose to turn their wombs over to the State, who do not wish to be forced to go full term with a baby they don't want or who do not want to use a coat hanger to perform an abortion as a result of crackpots like Phill Kline trying to stick his nose in everyone's personal business.

Hopefully, patriotic, God-loving Americans will continue to win these kinds of battles. Hopefully, this pattern of retaking America from the theocratic extremists will result in driving out all the big government socialists like Jim Ryun from Congress the fall.

Americans who believe in God and country need to bring back the principles personal freedom, privacy and liberty and reject the theocratic-socialists and their need to impose their will on the rights and freedoms of the American people.

We need to reject their goals of bigger government, more prisons, more enforcers, more watchers, more regulators, more prosecutors and all the other totalitarian ideas that they modeled after their atheist-communist buddies in China, who these theocrats depended on for six years to loan them money for their borrow-and-spend fiscally liberal socialist ideas.

oldgranny 11 years, 9 months ago

My granddaughter gets frequent ear infections. My daughter in law knows the symptoms very well and yet always has to pay for an expensive dr. appt in order to get medicine for that. Why on earth would they let you get something as serious as the morning after pill without a little guidance from a dr? I've read it can have some rather serious complications.

Cait McKnelly 11 years, 9 months ago

My predictions: 1. They will charge 100$ per pill 2. They will lock it up in a glass cabinet along with the Nicoderm and other high dollar OTCs so the pharmicist has to get it for you. 3. You will have to be 21 to buy it. 4. If it goes against the pharmicist's "moral conciousness" he/she won't have to sell it to you.

Some victory.

Linda Aikins 11 years, 9 months ago

Happy 80th birthday! Nicely done! And it is all about how you feel, isn't it.

Ditto oldgranny.

Kelly Powell 11 years, 9 months ago

Let me check something............................hmmmm...I seem to lack a uterus, so I'll recluse myself from an opinion.

hottruckinmama 11 years, 9 months ago

no. it isn't something that should be popped like an asprin.

classclown 11 years, 9 months ago

Don't women need a check up in order to take birth control pills. I know some women can't use them because they cause problems for them which is why I assumed they are available by prescription only.

So how long until people start bringing lawsuits because of something that happens to them as a result of taking these pills?

jonas 11 years, 9 months ago

I'll bet an unplanned, unprepared pregnancy scare would change at least two of the above streeter's opinions pretty quickly.

Before this inevitably becomes an abortion debate, does anyone know how hard/easy the pill is to obtain right now?

Peaty Romano 11 years, 9 months ago

"1. They will charge 100$ per pill"

It $30 and there are two pills that need to be taken.

This is a contraceptive

This has been avaliable in other countries for a while, it's not something new.

MWIV 11 years, 9 months ago

Happy Birthday oldfashiongirl -You deserve to have a great day. Aren't you glad your mother didn't use "Plan B" and stuck with "Plan A". You just wouldn' be having a great day. Go girl! :)

guardBack 11 years, 9 months ago

Hey there. If you don't agree that Plan B is a moral choice, THEN DON'T BUY IT!!

There is no reason to force your morality on other people, especially when this pill is a contraceptive, which prevents an egg from being fertilized, and has nothing whatsoever to do with abortion.

Perhaps if ya'll would read up on those things you wish to oppose instead of letting the 9% of the population who vehemently oppose all forms of letting women make their own choices about when they get pregant think for you.

I love this development, hopefully there will be a massive educational push to appease the fears of the moderates. The loony uber-religious are going to go bat@#*$ no matter what.

Strontius 11 years, 9 months ago

"Why on earth would they let you get something as serious as the morning after pill without a little guidance from a dr?"

Because the morning after pill is safe and effective, having been used in every other first world democracy for many, many years. Our FDA is so politicized that it takes a long time for them to approve anything that's going to anger the social conservatives.

The whole point of this pill is to prevent pregnancies, and if you had to go to a doctor to get a perscription first, it might be too late by that time.

I wonder how the LJworld managed to find 80% of the social conservatives in Lawrence and managed to make them all the streeters for this question.

paladin 11 years, 9 months ago

Morgan, you're killing me! My, how times have changed. Do KU and JCCC offer courses in Regressive Studies? I guess, its only right for a wayward young girl to be required to give birth to an unplanned, unwanted baby as her punishment for being bad. It is her fate and the will of her righteous God. Calvinism at its finest. We, as a society, have come a long way to have traveled nowhere and remain stuck in the mire of guilt and shame and moral judgment and social recrimination. And we think them Muslims is backward.

Solti 11 years, 9 months ago

Way to go Morgan and Melanie! Good answers. Don't let the education you are getting cause you to slack off on issues such as these. Good to know that there ARE some young ladies out there who've got their head on straight!

H_Lecter 11 years, 9 months ago

You mean the girls at K-State won't even have to go to the vet now? Can they buy a months supply?

MWIV 11 years, 9 months ago

guardBack - Isnt' that just what you are doing? Forcing your moral opinion onto others?

It's really simple...if ya don't want kids, don't have sex.

chzypoof1 11 years, 9 months ago

Don't use the forced sex excuse on here. If that's the case, you will call the police, and they can hook you up with a doc right away. This is going to be used by young kids that make stupid decisions. This pill should be reserved for dire, extreme cases...and THAT is why it should be prescribed.

snookums 11 years, 9 months ago

America is paying for all the choices that have been made. Add this one to the list.

Ceallach 11 years, 9 months ago

Happy B-day oldfashioned!! Sounds like you will have a great day. Hope this is your best year ever!

No, I don't believe it should be OTC. This is some powerful powder we're talking about and it should not be taken lightly -- you know, the same way it took years of women getting sick until they finally realized that if you forget the BC pill for a day or two, taking 3 doesn't catch you up, it just makes you sick. The lack of a doctor's oversight is IMHO a disservice to women. It gives the impression that they are taking an aspirin for a headache.

paladin 11 years, 9 months ago

Abstinence is the only method of birth control that is approved by Almighty God. Sex outside of marriage is Sinful and having an illegitimate child will surely bring the wrath of God down upon you and you will justifiably suffer the eternal fires of damnation. What is right and true is God's way and whosoever transgress should suffer rebuke and be cast out from the company of decent, God fearing, People. God's people. All who dwell in God's world must be forced to comply with God's law, even though in their ignorance, they continue to Sin. Their judgement is at hand. Lord have mercy on us all.

Kat Christian 11 years, 9 months ago

There should be an age restriction, but I think it is a good idea to have this pill if you compare it to having a child come into this world and being abused. Not to say all children will suffer this, but it seems today most children are just there or forgotten and only a small portion of them receive the care and attention they deserve.

Peaty Romano 11 years, 9 months ago

"'Abortion Pill'."

Plan B® should not be used if you are already pregnant (because it will not work), if you are allergic to levonorgestrel or any of the ingredients in Plan B®, or for regular birth control.

Why is this so hard to understand for some people, what next ban condoms and the BC Pill?

"It's really simple...if ya don't want kids, don't have sex."

What planet are you from?

jonas 11 years, 9 months ago

Blue: Thanks.

Further fact question, does this pill kill a fertalized egg, does it prevent implantation in Uterine lining, I does in prevent conception? Which one of those it is would vastly change the moral schematic, in my opinion.

ms_canada 11 years, 9 months ago

Old fashioned girl - I hope you have a really great day! The question - any medication with as serious an effect as this should be given under the care of a doctor. And look at the comment by inmate again. I can see this happening in some households. Wife wants baby, hubby doesn't. Or the other way around. Not every household has a happily married couple. But then again should a child be brought into such a household. Nothing is ever cut and dried. I guess the decision has been made and the pill is available. So that is that. Right??

Ceallach 11 years, 9 months ago

I just caught up on yesterday's thread, got a good laugh to start the day. GOPConservative labeled me a warped extremist (gee, I hope that wasn't a misquote:). I have trouble denying the warped part, too many others agree with that, but an extremist??? Seems I'm also lumped with the kool kid, RI :) a high school dream come true -- labeled with a kool kid. Thanks GOP!!

Upon reading GOP's 5:17 post I am puzzled. What part of "conservative" applies to that world-view?

If the pill keeps fertilized eggs from attaching, that seems very different from a contraceptive.

contracep*tive (kntr-sptv) Pronunciation Key
adj. Capable of preventing conception.

n. A device, drug, or chemical agent that prevents conception.

con§cep§tion /kÉn&&char114&& sÉpÊ Én/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhn-sep-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

noun 1. the act of conceiving; the state of being conceived.
2. fertilization; inception of pregnancy.

Tychoman 11 years, 9 months ago

Paladin I hope your last post was kidding.

I think this pill should be made available. It's not an abortion pill, it's a contraceptive. There's a big difference. Like it or not, people, conception isn't right away. It takes a while for the fertilization to take effect. If you're so against Plan B, then DON'T GET IT. It's the same principles on smoking, and drinking. If you don't like it, don't expose yourself to it. Against gay marriage? Then don't get one and shut the hell up.

alm77 11 years, 9 months ago

GOP, you need to read the article Peaty posted. It doesn't prevent fertilization (that can happen within 15 minutes of intercourse) it prevents implantation. In other words, what conservatives consider a person.

Paladin, you're the reason people hate Christians and will never be won over to The Way. Keep your preaching where it belongs, to people who want to know what God has to say.

Grundoon Luna 11 years, 9 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

hobb2264 11 years, 9 months ago

Am I the only one that read the obvious sarcasm in Paladin's post?

craigers 11 years, 9 months ago

TOB, if it's Sunday then why in the world am I at work.
Oldfashionedgirl, happy birthday and you having 10 presents at 5am is pretty impressive too.

I don't like the idea of the morning after pill due to it providing another escape for sexual promiscuity. I'm not exactly sure how to feel because if it is doing the same thing as regular birth control, then I don't completely see a problem of it's use for those married. I am completely against the destruction of the the fertilized egg that has implanted into the uterus. To me that is the destruction of potential life. I understand it happens in miscarriage for multiple reasons, but that is nature not man intervention, so it is completely different.

My main concern when reading this is that adults will have access to this pill without the lady seeing a dr. The reason why this scares me is because adults can buy this for somebody else. In the case of child abuse or molestation the adult could make the child take this pill in order to cover up what he has done. This is what worries me. If there is easy access to this, will it drive molestation cases more underground being harder to detect?

sgtwolverine 11 years, 9 months ago

Honestly, I'm less interested in the actual question and more interested in the question of pharmacists who do not wish to dispense the plan b pill.

craigers 11 years, 9 months ago

No hobb, I got it. alm must be new.

Question for whoever: Doesn't normal monthly birth control prevent ovulation so no fertilization takes place?

stbaker 11 years, 9 months ago

The morning after pill is in no way comparable to an abortion. It is a contraceptive--which means it is taken to prevent pregnancy. There are age restrictions for being able to buy it over the counter (18+).

reginafliangie 11 years, 9 months ago

craigers, you still ovulate monthly (with the BC Pill), it just doesn't get fertilized.

redneckwoman 11 years, 9 months ago

Do any of you against this want to pay for the unplanned pregnancies?

I have 3 beautiful kids but the idea of someone's nose up in my uterus telling me what I can & can't do with it just urks me.

And last time I checked a person under the age of 18 can't recieve any medical treatment without parents ok. So what is a girl to do when they do go to the hospital after being raped & the parents say no to this pill because they're against it?

geekin_topekan 11 years, 9 months ago

80 years?Wow. I am dying to know.How many of those were here in Lawrence? What was toontown like in "the day"?

ms_canada 11 years, 9 months ago

stbaker - situation: guy aged 20, girl age 17, he buys the pill, she takes it.
situation - pedophile aged 45, girl 14, he buys, makes her take it following the rape. Did any of you read about the 10 year old girl abducted in Austria and kept in a garage for 8 years and used sexually, she escaped, he threw himself in front of a train. It is scary to think of many situations for the use of this pill. What ever happened to responsibility for your actions? Gone with the wind.

Laura 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm really stymied by the responses on this message board. I'm guessing the average age is about 75 and the average place on the moral continuum is somewhere to the right of Pat Robertson. For G-d's sake, people, this is an effective thing for girls and women who not only have been raped (and get this; some doctors DO NOT tell recently raped women who report the crime about Plan B, which is one of the reasons why it must be made available over the counter), but who have had a comdom break, etc. To listen to the lot of you against Plan B, you'd think the only people deserving of any breaks in this life are those who have missionary sex twice a week for the sole purpose of procreating. I'm guessing that most of you have adopted children, participate in foster care, or serve as CASA volunteers because you apparently have a personal stake in each and every unwanted child out there.

I thank G-d that Plan B will be there for my daughters and YES, I will absolutely tell them that if they are raped as a teen as I was, or find themselves in the position to require it otherwise, I will provide them with Plan B, myself.

ms_canada 11 years, 9 months ago

TOB - you are right, a 45 yr. old sicko would not care if he got the 14 yr. old pregnant and would not really be more inclined to rape because of this pill..
But I did not really mention the Austrian case to connect it to the use of this pill, I just meant that there are so many sicko, weird people in this world that so many weird situations are imaginable for the use of this pill. I don't know if this pill is available in Austria.

Laura 11 years, 9 months ago

Ms. Canada, you're kidding, right? There are a million more sicko things one could do with a funnel, some K-Y jelly and a gerbil, yet none of those things are illegal. Quite frankly, if someone kidnapped me and repeatedly sexually assaulted me yet fed me Plan B every 72 hours, I'd be grateful for that one bit of humanity. The truly sick thing would be carrying that person's child. That's why so many women started carrying a condom in their purses after AIDS hit the scene. Even my 65-yr-old mother had a Trojan in her wallet in case of sexual assault.

alm77 11 years, 9 months ago

craigers, yeah, "new" that's the ticket. ;) I suppose I could always "suggest removal" for my own comment.

craigers 11 years, 9 months ago

I don't think the pill would cause more sickos to rape kids or young women, but don't you think catching them would be tougher if the girl never had to receive medical attention?

Yes the article said that people under the age of 18 would have to have doctor's consent, but if anybody can purchase it, then they only have to seek medical attention in order to get it themselves.

Laura 11 years, 9 months ago

Craigers, yes! Any argument against Plan B must also be leveled against monthly birth control. Although you could argue that monthly birth control is a 28-day assault on ovulation, which makes it even more evil.

Laura 11 years, 9 months ago

Craigers, believe me when I tell you that young girls who are raped and do not tell their mothers NEVER get medical attention, no matter what. Any young girl who is raped and tells her mother will get that attention. Plan B has nothing to do with it other than at least providing the girl with pregnancy prevention.

ms_canada 11 years, 9 months ago

Laura et al - you have got me wrong. I was only responding to the comment by stbaker's earlier about the age limit. I simply meant that the girl, being under age could still receive and use the pill if given to her by an older male who would be able to purchase it, as I read in the article.

Laura 11 years, 9 months ago

Oh, I'm sorry! That's what you get for coming into a discussion relatively late and not taking the time to read all the responses. As you can tell, I'm a little passionate about this topic.

sgtwolverine 11 years, 9 months ago

You better believe I'm ready for college football, TOB. I've been ready for months. I'm a little nervous about Michigan, but I'm almost always nervous about them. The offense could be great if the rb stays healthy (which would also help the receivers -- not sure if there's a real #1 yet since the departure of Braylon Edwards); the defense, I'm told, should be stout. I sure hope it is. Unfortunately, I have wait another week to find out how they'll play.

But fortunately, I'm getting warmed up with high school football. The freshmen and jv seasons started yesterday, and the varsity plays its first game Saturday evening ( I've been following the team through practices and everything, trying to shoot some of the life of a player outside game action, so I'm really looking forward to Saturday.

Ceallach 11 years, 9 months ago

Laura, where does your mother live? It must be a kinder, gentler place than I have ever lived. Upon being assaulted she will ask the pervert to please practice safe sex? There has to be a better example.

btw, there are many people who have deep concerns for the unwanted children of this world -- many of whom are not products of poverty and rape.

We seem to have returned to both sides of the "life" question posing the worse case scenarios as justification for their opinions. Most of us live somewhere in the middle and have considered the consequences of both philosophies before forming our opinions.

sgtwolverine 11 years, 9 months ago

Dang it -- I knew this would happen sooner or later. For those who don't know, when I say "shoot," I mean with a camera. I am not assaulting high school football players!

Laura 11 years, 9 months ago

Ceallach: it isn't a given that the person committing the assault will stop and put on a condom (in fact, I know of at least one rape case where the woman did talk the rapist into putting on the condom and defense counsel used that as evidence that the sex was consensual), but the point is it's worth a try. That's all.

Laura 11 years, 9 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

townie42 11 years, 9 months ago

FWIW - apparently, plan b does the same thing that other birth control pills do, just faster (yeah, I googled it)

So, if you're opposed to it on the basis of preventing implantation, you should be opposed to the pill as well.

Plan B:

"Plan B® works like a regular birth control pill. It prevents pregnancy mainly by stopping the release of an egg from the ovary, and may also prevent the fertilization of an egg (the uniting of sperm with the egg). Plan B® may also work by preventing it from attaching to the uterus (womb). It is important to know that Plan B® will not affect a fertilized egg already attached to the uterus; it will not affect an existing pregnancy."

Other birth control pills:

"Most birth control pills are "combination pills" containing a combination of the hormones estrogen and progesterone to prevent ovulation (the release of an egg during the monthly cycle). A woman cannot get pregnant if she doesn't ovulate because there is no egg to be fertilized. The Pill also works by thickening the mucus around the cervix, which makes it difficult for sperm to enter the uterus and reach any eggs that may have been released. The hormones in the Pill can also sometimes affect the lining of the uterus, making it difficult for an egg to attach to the wall of the uterus."

Lori Tilson 11 years, 9 months ago

Absolutely-- this is a good start, but I'm disappointed that they restricted the age. I think it should go along with the age of receiving birth control. In an ideal world, sexually active persons have previously considered some form of birth control if they're not trying to conceive, but that is not reality. I'm glad that this choice will be available to those needing it in a timely and low-cost (relative to a child or an abortion) manner.

sgtwolverine 11 years, 9 months ago

Yikes, my reputation is going to go down in flames. High schoolers will never talk to me again. Well, not that they really do anyway (they just look at me funny because I'm walking around with a camera, and because everyone looks at me funny). But you know.

Sue, quick -- say something vaguely inappropriate to distract R_I! Save me!

Anyway, R_I, I haven't wounded any high schoolers yet, so I'm pretty sure I'm sure.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

Oldfashioned, A very happy birthday to you! And many more........

Ceal, upon revision, you and I are the warped extremists and RI merely had a sex change. Am I a warped extremist??? I dunno! Don't care.

On to today's topic: If it's legal, it should be sold. To try and clarify, I believe the BC pill prevents ovulation...which is why my Dr. would prescribe it. The MA pill only prevents implantation...which is why my Dr. would NOT prescribe it. Seems that now, you wouldn't have to live your life according to your own Dr's moral code. Do I think it should be sold "over the counter?" Yes. Do I think anyone should buy it? In most cases, no.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

townie, both pills are NOT the same and do NOT do the same things. Your own post clarified that. If and egg is already released and fertilized, it will simply prevent implantation. Not the same thing.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

OK, it's a strange day when Sgt is asking for me to save him. OK, I'll try.

RI, how is that sex change going? Are you "in touch" with your feminine side yet?

sweetpeagj 11 years, 9 months ago

Just a quick question..if the Plan B pill isn't an abortion pill then why the rush to get to a doctor within a few days? I was taught that safe sex happened long before you engaged in any type of sex. Granted I have four lovely children that were all birth control babies of some form or another but the way I looked at it was if God wanted me to have that child then it was what I was going to do. There are situations where abortions or other options need be condsidered but to use this pill as a form of contraceptive just like abortiions were used is wrong. Teach safe and responsible sex ed before your child needs to be thinking about it and finding wys to get it (help) without parental consent. We all need to learn self control and learn responsibility for our actions.

bjamnjm 11 years, 9 months ago

Strontius, "Because the morning after pill is safe and effective, having been used in every other first world democracy for many, many years. Our FDA is so politicized that it takes a long time for them to approve anything that's going to anger the social conservatives."

What a silly theory. Are you politicized and angry at social conservatives? What do you know about the FDA and it's approval processes for introducing new drugs to the market? One reason it takes so long is b/c it is the FDA's responsibility to insure the new drug does what pharma says it will w/o killing someone. You should feel fortunate to have an entity in this country that goes to such lengths to insure the scripts you take are safe.

If you want to get angry, get angry at pharmas that are less and less concerned with developing drugs like antibiotics in favor of maintenance drugs the patient will take for the rest of his/her life. Contact your representatives.

guppypunkhead 11 years, 9 months ago

If any of you had actually done any sort of research about what Plan B actually DOES, you would know that if a fetus has already been created, it does not effect it. IT IS NOT AN ABORTION PILL.

From CNN: "If a woman takes Plan B within 72 hours of unprotected sex, she can lower the risk of pregnancy by up to 89 percent. Plan B is different from the abortion pill: If a woman already is pregnant, Plan B has no effect."

guppypunkhead 11 years, 9 months ago

Differences between the morning-after pill and the abortion pill, which are different drugs:

The morning-after pill prevents pregnancy but has no effect if a woman already is pregnant. Sold under the brand name Plan B, it's a higher-than-normal dose of a hormone found in regular birth-control pills and prevents ovulation or fertilization of an egg. It also may prevent the egg from implanting into the uterus, the medical definition of pregnancy, but recent research suggests that's not likely.

The abortion pill, RU-486 or Mifeprex, can terminate pregnancy up to 49 days after the beginning of the last menstrual cycle. It's a two-pill process. First is Mifeprex, which blocks production of a hormone required to sustain pregnancy. Then a second medicine, misoprostol, to cause contractions and finish the abortion.

Source: Associated Press (also on the CNN link I just posted.)

BunE 11 years, 9 months ago

Get over your "moral" outrage and realize that people have sex. If they want to use this as contraceptive OK. I hope that his encourages more sex among the uptight american populace. Condoms and Plan B for all!


Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great, if a sperm is wasted, god gets quite irate"


What will you Anti Abortionists do if abortion becomes illegal? Will you decide that it is time to actually care about babies and parents and children and health care post birth? Will you take up the cause against poverty much like jesus did? Or will you sit in your tower congratulate yourselves ignoring reality. Maybe you can go after condoms next?


Isn't god murdering babies by allowing miscarriage?

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

"It also may prevent the egg from implanting into the uterus.."

In my humble opinion, the only reason an egg would implant in the uterus is because it is already fertilized!!! Correct me if I am wrong on that. I din't say I was against this pill being sold, I merely want the women (or men) who opt to buy it to know exactly WHAT they are getting.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

RI, just come to terms with are all of the above!

Sgt, you're welcome! ;)

Redneckgal 11 years, 9 months ago

I have read that this pill can have some pretty nasty side effects. I wouldn't want my daughter (not that she would anyway) to be able to go in buy this pill without some kind of medical guidance.

sgtwolverine 11 years, 9 months ago

R_I, are you saying those things can't co-exist?

Sue, I am eternally indebted to you. Well, eternally for the next day or two, anyway.

MWIV 11 years, 9 months ago

Oh heck! If it feels good, do it. The heck with any responsiblity.

lynnd 11 years, 9 months ago

I don't know how this particular morning-after pill is being packaged, but ten years ago when I had a scare, I was given a prescription for the morning-after pill. It consisted of a one month pack of birth control pills, and the pharmacist gave specific instructions as to how many to take. I can't remember exactly how many or anything, but I had no side effects or sickness or anything.

I would imagine they've just redesigned some type of birth control pill so that you don't have to buy an entire month's worth of pills, just to throw most of them out.

Since all I took were regular birth control pills, they obviously worked the same way birth control pills would be expected to work. Anyone who couldn't get a prescription, or couldn't buy the pill, could probably just take several birth control pills and accomplish the same thing.

I'm not saying the morning after pill should be used as a regular method of contraception- people should still be safe about what they're doing- however I do believe this pill should be available as an option to those who want it.

jonas 11 years, 9 months ago

Guppypunkhead: It's a valiant attempt, but attempting understanding in this is a doomed process, as for many it is simply another opportunity for them to scream "Murdering babies! Vote Conservative! Give me more power!"

Thanks for the info, though.

alm77 11 years, 9 months ago

sunflower_sue, do your research. The pill primarily prevents ovulation, but as a secondary measure it renders the lining of the uterus useless to implantation. Thus, it could be the same thing. See townie42's link. I'm not on some "no birth control" bandwagon, (I think the pill is a grey area), but I know it's not for me.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

alm77, I did go to the link. I read the info. What did I say to indicate that I didn't? Believe me, I'm not making any moral judgements on this pill. I even stated that I think people should be allowed to buy it if it was legal. I just think that "as a secondary measure it renders the lining of the uterus useless to implantation" is leaving things a bit fuzzy. Why would a secondary measure be needed? Because maybe there is a chance that an egg is already fertilized? Hmmmm....... let's think about this wording.

sgtwolverine 11 years, 9 months ago

R_I, politicians take contradictory positions all the time. It is possible. (Not that I'm calling you a politician. I'm not that mean.)

Plus, some politicians have shown themselves to be footsie-playing horndogs, too.

mom_of_three 11 years, 9 months ago

As a mom of girls, I will have to force myself eventually to think about the time when my girls will be sexually active.
If one of them ever came to me and asked for help in getting Plan B, I would help them. As far as I can tell, it is another method of birth control.

Ceallach 11 years, 9 months ago

If it's just like birth control pills, please refresh my memory, which brands of birth control pills are available without a prescription?

kugrad 11 years, 9 months ago

Sorry, no time to read 108 comments and see if this was already mentioned, but the plan B pill DOES NOT TAKE A HUMAN LIFE because it PREVENTS pregnancy. It stops the egg from being fertilized. It does not kill a fertilized egg. Thus, there is no human life destroyed.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

Gold Bond* medicated powder...available w/out a prescription.

MO3, I have girls, too. I would get them birth control but I (as of now) have serious reservations about this "plan B." Sounds like govt operated Medicare and we all know how screwed up that is. :)

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

kugrad, please site a Medical source that says exactly that. (I'm not being flippant...I really want to see it.) Because everything I've read has very "iffy" wording and I want the truth, darnit! If someone can give me the medical proof, I'll shut up. everyone hysterically starts googling and jeevesing in a desperate attempt to shut sue the he!! up :)

BunE 11 years, 9 months ago

Yes, if it feels good, do it. Especially if you have a plan "B" to deal with one of the outcomes. Use a condom or be tested and enter into a monogamous relationship with an indiviual or a group capable of and willing to give consent...whatever you want to do.

I suppose there are people out there that do not want the HPV shot that PREVENTS cervical cancer because it may cause people to touch each other in immoral ways?

Way to be pro-womankilling!

justthefacts 11 years, 9 months ago

Birth control pills can only be obtained with a perscripton from a doctor, after an exam, and to continue taking them requires regular exams (to make sure things like high Blood Pressure don't start becoming problems).

Birth control pills suppress (prevent) ovulation of eggs. So, no matter how much sperm is pumped into a uterus, there is no fertile egg waiting to get fertilized.

The morning after pill is essentially a high dose of the same hormones used in birth control pills. Women can get a very similar (if not exactly the same) result by taking about one week's worth of birth control pills, all at one time.

What the morning after pill does is flush everything out - makes the uterus wall a bad place for things to stick. SO if an egg happened to get fertilized the night before, anyone taking the morning after pill does so to insure that the fertilized egg doesn't get to stick and grow into something.

Morality or beliefs about when does a human life begin aside, and/or opinions about whether a woman should get examined before, during and after taking doses (big or small) of hormones that mess with her system - at least try to get the facts straight on what these pills do and do not do!

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

BunE, I think that HPV shot is a wonderful thing! Has it been approved yet?

Ceallach 11 years, 9 months ago

Iffy words are used to further their agendas (in this case selling pills) without being financially liable if their opinions/assumptions/conclusions/etc., are not correct . . . .because they don't know for sure!

Face it folks, the worst possible scenarios stated above are not what will sell enough pills to make it profitable in the OTC

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

RI, you being the father of a girl also, I don't have to tell you what the hubby would do to your sweet young boys. Oh, I suppose we could share a grandchild, but can you imagine how messed up that kid would be? ;)

GOPConservative 11 years, 9 months ago

Ceallach wrote:

"I just caught up on yesterday's thread, got a good laugh to start the day. GO labeled me a warped extremist (gee, I hope that wasn't a misquote:). I have trouble denying the warped part, too many others agree with that, but an extremist??? Seems I'm also lumped with the kool kid, RI :) a high school dream come true -- labeled with a kool kid. Thanks GOP!!

Upon reading GOP's 5:17 post I am puzzled. What part of "conservative" applies to that world-view?"

First of all you are either lying or ignorant (like many others in this thread) regarding the difference between the "abortion pill" and the "morning-after" pill.

Plan B prevents pregnancy but has no effect if a woman already is pregnant. Plan B works by preventing ovulation or fertilization of an egg. While it also may prevent the egg from implanting into the uterus, recent research suggests that is not likely.

You are also lying regarding yesterday's thread. I was the one who was called "warped."

In response, I pointed out that it is "warped" to use lies and misquotes from someone's post and then base an argument on those manufactured misquotes as they were reality.

That's exactly what you did in response to a my first post in yesterday's thread.

I didn't call you an extremist, but said that using such tactics to promote a world view that is all "black and white" with no shades of grey is extremist in nature. Further, using lies and misinformation as you have done in this thread and yesterday's thread is also a typical extremist tactic.

Finally, I think it is very clear why I am a conservative. I believe in the exact opposite of the theocratic-socialist extremists.

In case you haven't yet figured it out, being a theocratic, big-government "conservative" is not the same as being a political "conservative." In fact, the two points of view are the exact opposite.

You obviously equating the word "conservative" with religious crackpots like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Jim Ryun and the other crooked members of Congress, who have been receiving kick-backs via Jack Abramhoff from the money he stole from Indian tribes.

Thanks to crooked theocratic-socialists in Kansas like Jim Ryun and Phill Kline, the word "conservative" has become synonymous with big-government, invasion of privacy, lies and extreme corruption, not the traditional conservative values of honesty, limited government, and privacy.

Real conservatives and real Kansans seek to worship God in their own way without having laws passed based by those who believe government's sole purpose is to impose more big-government regulations and controls based on extremist "religious" perversions.

sgtwolverine 11 years, 9 months ago

GOP: "I believe in the exact opposite of the theocratic-socialist extremists."

For semantic's sake, GOP, if you believe in the exact opposite of an extremist, then that would make you an extremist. Is that what you're trying to communicate?

Linda Endicott 11 years, 9 months ago

I wish they would just develop a birth control pill for men, one that would stop the production of sperm for a certain amount of time, and that would render all the sperm already produced useless. That is, if guys really are serious about not wanting to have kids peppered all over the place. Guys certainly seem overly fond of peppering their seed all over the place.

Not that a male birth control pill would mean that women would have to be any less careful. But at least then all the effort of birth control wouldn't be hers alone.

Ceallach 11 years, 9 months ago

Both you and Ceal misquote me, make off-the-wall assumptions and then go off into prissy lectures about the incorrect words that you put in my mouth. That is "warped."

Those were you words GOPC, not mine. I looked back to see what was written yesterday because your posts are so very long and boring that I knew there was a possibility I had mentally blacked out trying to get through them.

As to your 1:32 post, I have decided not to allow you to label me further with lying, ignorant and oh yes, prissy. Your issues are too extreme for me to deal with you on this board.

btw, the true angst of a liar is not that others cannot believe him, it is rather that he cannot believe others.

Rant on poor GOP, for me it will be like hearing the adults speaking in a Charlie Brown cartoon . . . waaah waaah waaah.

townie42 11 years, 9 months ago


From my previous post:

"Plan B® may also work by preventing it from attaching to the uterus (womb)."


"The hormones in the Pill can also sometimes affect the lining of the uterus, making it difficult for an egg to attach to the wall of the uterus."

I'm no expert, but it seems that at least one effect of these two medications is the same... preventing attachment to the lining of the uterus.

So, if you are against Plan B for that reason, you should be against some forms of the pill as well... neither has that as its primary mechanism, but it does appear to be a potential secondary effect of both medications.

I personally consider Plan B a contraceptive, and therefore have no problem with it being sold over the counter in the same manner as other prophylactics.

Ceallach 11 years, 9 months ago

So what is happening now? sue and RI are no longer flirting . . . but their kids may be!! Some people are not going to like that :)

mztrendy 11 years, 9 months ago

crazyks, isn't it called whiskey? Just kidding!

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

townie, sigh exactly when did I say I was AGAINST anything? For the last freakin time...I said I wanted clarification on exactly how this pill works!!! I'm going to go all SHOEMAKER in a minute. Site me a darn source. And not the same one as earlier 'cause that one is FUZZY.

Ceal, did you hear something? I thought I heard this mumble kind of a noise. It didn't make much sense so I'll just ignore it if it happens again.

sgtwolverine 11 years, 9 months ago

Sue, I'm pretty sure I heard you say you were against footsie-playing horndogs. Did you say that?

Harry_Manback 11 years, 9 months ago

If you believe that plan b is abortion, than you essentially believe that the birth control pill is abortion. People who think otherwise are either mis-informed or have confused plan b with medicated abortion, a totally different pill.

If a woman is already pregnant, plan b won't hurt the baby. I don't understand what the whole debate about it is. It's simply a high-dose birth control pill.

If you think it's the "easy way out," what about instances where people were trying to be careful and an accident occured? Or rape? I wouldn't call that the "easy way out."

I would use plan b if I were in that situation, and I would NEVER get an abortion. That's why I would use it, because I don't want to ever be faced with that possibility. It's no more dangerous than the pill. It especially pisses me off when I see other women (apparently educated ones) trying to deny reproductive rights to other women. Do they not realize how hard women had to fight to not be considered second class citizens? Especially in this instance, because plan b is so obviously not abortion.

BunE 11 years, 9 months ago

FDA approved the first preventive HPV vaccine in the US, marketed by Merck & Co. under the tradename Gardasil. GlaxoSmithKline is expected to seek approval for a similar preventive HPV vaccine, known as Cervarix, early in 2007. -Wikipedia

sixtwelvewest 11 years, 9 months ago

I'd like to speak for someone who doesn't have a voice: My Uterus. She says "TAKE YOUR POLITICS AND STAY THE HELL OUT OF ME!"

BunE 11 years, 9 months ago

What about this, isnt a kid walking in on her parents and killing the mood a form of abortion?

beatrice 11 years, 9 months ago

I know, I know! If you don't like it, don't ever take it! End of discussion.

If you are a man, shut the hell up. This isn't your call, just as it isn't a woman's call if a man chooses to get a vasectomy. (I'm not saying couples shouldn't discuss these things, but it still boils down to being an individual's choice.)

Now, can't we discuss important things - like if Pluto exists or not? (Xena, we hardly knew ya.)

Ceallach 11 years, 9 months ago

bea, I think the arrogant Earthlings have gone too far this time! The Death Ray may be the only way to control them!! Holdin a little council, deciding who is a dwarf planet and who is not. Upstarts, that's what they are, upstarts!!

You know Tombaugh was in Arizona when he discovered Pluto. Well, I like Pluto and I'm keeping it in planet status, does that seem extreme?

badger 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm actually happy with the ruling, even the age restriction. There are a lot of 18 and up age restrictions for various substances people want to put in or on their bodies, and I don't necessarily think it's that bad to suggest that a 14-year-old girl really ought to talk to someone qualified before she puts a massive dose of hormones into her body. That's not a moral objection, it's a biological one. When you're still going through elements of puberty, artificially introduced hormones can have different effects than intended.

As to whether or not I like Plan B? Yes. People will make stupid decisions about protection. Condoms will break. Drinks get doped. Stuff happens. Plan A is 'wearing a condom' or 'only drinking soda at the party' or 'being abstinent'. But if the condom breaks, the soda is doped, or the rapist doesn't care about your choice to abstain, then you go with Plan B. That's why it's named that, because it's not supposed to be your first choice to prevent pregnancy. It's the backup, the secondary.

And to whoever brought up the 8-year-old girl? Yeah, you know not a lot of 8-year-olds are capable of conception, right? I can only assume you brought it in to be inflammatory and paint those who support Plan B availability as supporters of kidnapping and child molestation.

This 'OMG child molestors will use it to cover up their crimes!' angle is new to me. Logically, it doesn't parse. Repeat molestors would have to not only buy the medication frequently enough from a pharmacy that unless they lived in a very large town they would quickly establish a pattern someone would question, but they'd also have to convince the girl to regularly take the pill.

Given the side effects, which can include vomiting, dizziness, cramping, and spotting, I have a hard time believing that a molestor would rather risk discovery when someone asks how come Suzie is so often sick the day after violin practice or how come Jenny ended up in the nurses' office with her 'monthlies' two weeks early, crying her eyes out. Teachers report that stuff, and parents take daughters to the doctor for it, and a doctor is pretty likely to recognize that there's something wrong. I think the entire 'child molestor' angle is hyperbole.

Some folks consider the prevented implantation of a fertilized egg abortion. Those people should look extra hard at any birth control pills they or their family take. True, some work by preventing ovulation and fertilization from happening in the first place, but some prevent pregnancy by keeping the fertilized egg from successfully implanting. There are probably quite a few people out there vehemently opposed to Plan B who pop a pill almost every day that has the exact same result.

badger 11 years, 9 months ago



I blame ompb (one_more_pleather_bob).

Cait McKnelly 11 years, 9 months ago

What is it with the need of you fundies to stick your nose in my or my daughters bedroom???? No wonder I'm not an Xtian. I won't even give it the dignity of the name. You have nothing to do with a loving and forgiving CHRIST. One of my all time favorite quotes came from a good friend; "You know if He ever did come back it would take Him three days just to stop puking at everything that's ever been done 'In His Name'."

Linda Aikins 11 years, 9 months ago

Harry_Manback, sounds like you are female. If so, and if your moniker is any indication of your body, I don't think you will need to worry about a pill! (this is in fun, by the way)

Posted by mztrendy (anonymous) on August 25, 2006 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

crazyks, isn't it called whiskey? Just kidding!


craigers 11 years, 9 months ago

Badger, not all molesters take advantage of little kids on a monthly basis or anything. Do you know if they have records to determine how many times a person can purchase the pill in order to become suspiscious? Honestly, it could be a problem. However I don't oppose the pill based on that though.

The only problem I have with it is if it actually does something different than normal BC. I have heard so many different explanations on here but no real proof. I thought that the monthly BC pills made it to where an egg was not released which eliminates the chances of pregnancy (98-99%). And it all comes back to when you consider something "life". I know it is already decided and I won't encourage it's use because the fertilization could have already occured (which is where I feel life begins) and therefore eliminates a potential life.

craigers 11 years, 9 months ago

Yeah, I do like the name Harry_Manback but I about threw up when it first struck me. :) I was reminded of Ben Stiller playing basketball in "Along Came Polly". Ewww, gross.

BunE 11 years, 9 months ago

I heard that it just makes you hear "its a small world after all" and "I believe that children are the future" over and over again, causing ALL reproduction to stop in a matter of seconds. The egg implodes on itself and no one is the wiser.

craigers 11 years, 9 months ago

BunE, I think that might make a grown person want to commit suicide!

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

Sgt, I'm only against footsie playing horndogs when they are pressed against me. (That was a beautiful lob...thanks!)

I'm w/ etremist Ceal. Pluto is a planet! End of discussion.

Badger, have you seen some of the gradeschoolers lately? Some of them thar kids be 'bout full grown. Let's talk about hormones in our food! The insanity has to stop now!!!

BunE 11 years, 9 months ago

GOPconservative: I like the cut of your jib. Why not break from the GOP and the Conservative and come up with a new term? And no, libertarian is not gonna work. You seem to think too much.

mom_of_three 11 years, 9 months ago

Sue, When my girls are ready, I will help them get birth control also. I don't want to think about it yet, and I am sure the hubby will just plug his ears and say "Too much information", but would agree with me.
I am sure the topic will come up sooner than I would wish, since one is a junior, and two are in junior high.

townie42 11 years, 9 months ago


I didn't mean to imply you were necessarily against or for plan b or the pill, just saying they have similar effects, b/c they are essentially the same substance.

Plan B (levonorgestrel) is a high dose progesterone, from what I understand.

Plan B may inhibit implantation, in addition to limiting ovulation and fertilization.

2 more sources:

consumer info reference:

Levonorgestrel is a form of progesterone, which is a female hormone involved in conception.

Levonorgestrel is used in this product as an emergency contraceptive (EC) to prevent pregnancy after contraceptive failure or unprotected intercourse.

Levonorgestrel prevents ovulation (the release of an egg from an ovary), disrupts fertilization (joining of the egg and sperm), and inhibits implantation (attachment of a fertilized egg to the uterus).

More high tech reference:

Thus, anovulation results from disrupting the normal development and/or the hormonal activity of the growing follicle only when LNG is given preovulatory. In addition, peri- and post-ovulatory administration of LNG did not impair corpus luteum function or endometrial morphology. [in other words, it DOESN'T appear to impair implantation in this 2001 study]

mr_lawrence 11 years, 9 months ago

I can't believe there's even a debate about this. Everyone ought to have the right to consentual sex without pregnancy. Birth-control is not 100% effective, so Plan B should be available to anyone who needs it. It's really no different chemically than the regular daily pill. I don't see a moral dilema at all.

oldfashiongirl 11 years, 9 months ago

First, let me thank each of you for your very kind wishes for my 80th birthday-they made my day.

My son called and said "Mom, this is a real milestone in your life--you ought to outline some of the events, as many out there have no idea about happenings before 1970", so here goes:

I've lived through many events, from the Depression era, the stock market crash in 1929, the Dust bowl, and the passing of the presidency from Herbert Hoover, who promised a "chicken in every pot and a car in every garage" to our beloved President Franklin Roosevelt, whose "fireside chats" instilled in us a feeling of security and hope and that someone was "in charge", not out on a fundraising event. I experienced World War II, the BIG one, and saw my family send off 8 stalwart boys to the U. S. Marines and they suffered not even a scratch.

What memories!!, My job in our 3 room house was to clean the kerosene lamps with their glass globes, to churn the milk to make butter and to sweep the front porch. Later it was to stay home from school on Mondays and Tuesdays to do the wash and iron. We walked to our school about 5 miles away (later I measured in my car and it was only 3/4 mile). None of us were fat, as we played hopskotch at recess, did a lot of walking, running over those hills and gulleys, collected Indian arrowheads and flintrock.

In the early forties I wrapped bandages to be sent to our servicemen. I remember exactly where I was on December 7th 1941 when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. I was at church practicing a Christmas play.

In 1944 I met the love of my life, my first love who hailed from your own Lawrence, KS, but this ended when my mother thought I was too young for him. She was 16 and Dad was 15 when they married. Parents should never stop people at age 18 and he was 24 from marrying. I have carried the torch for him all these 62 years and it would be my dying wish if I could see him once more--he must be 87 now. I called in 2005 on Memorial Day and he was still around, married, retired, etc . Life seems so unfair-you just have to play the cards that you are dealt. I married someone else, had 2 children, divorced, making many friends through work, church and have had a full life. Even worked till 1999.

Finished high school, dating, travelling to 33 countries and living thru the Korean War, the Vietnam War, living in Holland in 1956 during the Hungarian revolution and the Dutch were hoarding food and coal and other things. I remember our beloved John F. Kennedy being killed. We sent a man to the moon in 1969. We've had Cold Wars, earthquakes, hurricanes and I'm living on top of the New Madrid fault.

My son told me today he was so glad there was no plan B around when I was born, as there would not have been me for his mother. As my daughter said "1926 was a very good year!!

geekin-topekan, No, I have never been to Lawrence or even in Kansas, but my heart is there.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

oldfashioned, thank you for sharing your own piece of life with us. In 20 years you can tell us more of the story.

hottruckinmama 11 years, 9 months ago

oldfashionedgirl..happy birthday sweetie and many more. my own dear mama turned 80 in feb. and is still just as feisty as ever. she had me in 1965 at the age of 39 when her other kids were already practically raised and out of the house. thank god there was no plan b then! i've learned an awful lot from the stories she has told over the years of growing up during the depression. i wouldn't trade those stories for all the gold in fort knox.

MWIV 11 years, 9 months ago

sunflower_sue - Dittos on your comment to oldfashiongirl. Can't wait to hear what the next twenty years will be like for her. Don't you just love this internet?

Ceallach 11 years, 9 months ago

oldfashiongirl: What a treasure you are! My mother is now 83 and I continue to learn from her. Like so many others, I regret my younger years, the years I let her pearls of wisdom drop to the ground, unheeded. I thank God that she is still with us and still keeping us in line when we get a little too big for our britches:) She used to call me almost daily, now I call her because not much time goes by that I don't want to ask her opinion on something (I'm trying to gather all the pearls I can:) Thanks again for sharing your pearls with us on this, your special day!

jogger 11 years, 9 months ago

Old Fashioned -

I hope you were concieved with intent. There were methods available to address unwanted intercourse in your day, but none that were harmless, and none that would prevent conception. If you were adopted, perhaps you might be one of those people concieved in sad circumstances.

For my own experience - I will tell you - a seventeen year old who has been sexually violated cannot always get her parents to "take her to the doctor"( or answer the phone for that matter), and the same person with the right (and cash)to choose her own healthcare cannot get a walk in appointment in Lawrence, even for sperm exposure, in the time required to prevent conception with Plan B. I have tried. Not even if you drive to Kansas City can you get in to an MD after unintended sperm contact on a wednesday night, not to mention a thursday, friday or saturday night.

MDs make more money on the emergency pregnancy care than they would with a phone OK, even for patients of record.No one will prescribe medication for a patient they have not seen. Many are simply afraid of having their offices bombed to offer honest advice and access. I see that none have had the guts to speak on this issue.

Birthcontrol - for married women, women with children they cannot feed, for teens who fear rape, for those with health conditions that make pregnancy life threatening, is difficult to access, finacially prohibitive for many, and often not covered by health insurance. Surgical sterilization is an option for men and women, but always carries some risk of death or injury.

The risk of death in childbirth is still greater than that of the birth control pill, and much higher than the short term dosage of Plan B which carries a lower risk of side effects than a lifetime of prevention with daily pills.

SO- We are talking about the lives of adult women with choices that are all bad. A woman who has experienced rape may not have access to the Plan B even in her local hospital, even after reporting the incident. MDs and pharmacists may place their own ethical concerns above the life of the woman requesting a chance to prevent a risk to her own life - even if she is willing to take the responsibility for her rapist's offspring should the attept to prevent conception fail.

All of you who that say you value life - can you explain to me why a woman's life becomes less valued when she begins to ovulate?

Those of you with daughters do a trial run. Call the MD and ask for a prescription and appointment in the brief timeframe. Keep the medication on hand if you get it, once you have been informed. I think an afternoon on the phone will make the need for this change clear. I am sorry there has been so much misinformation on this issue and I hope the lives and well being of many women will be protected by the legal access, and that some responsible pharmacies will make that access a reality.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

swbsow, thank you, thank you, thank you! So what I gathered in my reading is that it will not abort an egg that is already attatched to the uterine wall but it will prevent the egg from attaching even if already fertilized. It can prevent ovulation and can cause a bad invironment for sperm to live in, thus not having a chance to fertilize the egg, but again, if you wait too long (more than 72 hours) an already released egg could be fertilized but not have an opportunity to attach. So, as others have said, it all depends on when you think life starts. Thanks for the info! Now, I feel as though I could make an informed decision.

GOPConservative 11 years, 9 months ago


I don't like it any better than you that I am having to spend so much energy to make such long posts, but I have learned after 20 years of posting on boards like this, the only way to combat dishonesty is to expose it for the record.

This angry episode began yesterday when I innocently posted that one reason many domestic disturbances are not prosecuted is that both people realized they were wrong after cooling off.

I pointed out that although in many cases, there is an abuser and a victim, that in most cases, both people were wrong and both were using violence. To that, you said:


If you are a woman -- seek help!

If you are a man -- seek help!"

You then went into the first of many prissy lectures based on assumptions about what I believe that were not based on anything I said but rather on your preconceived twisted perception.

Now, you continue your misrepresentations by implying that I was the one who first use the word "warped," when it was your buddy, Sunflower_Sue, who first used word against me after she had also put words in my mouth that I did not say.

You knew that, but you once again deliberately practiced intellectual dishonesty by presenting my quote as if I were the first to use the word, "warped."

I specifically asked you both if you thought was proper behavior for either a man or a woman to deliberately destroy the other person's property just to push his/her buttons.

Neither of you answered that question so it appears that you both do believe that destroying another person's property is acceptable and not a form of domestic violence.

Your morality on this is like your morality on how you insult people in these threads and misrepresent their words and then get all offended, prissy and parental when someone objects to your dishonest tactics.

BTW, despite your defensiveness as evidenced by your bringing it up in almost every post today, I used the word "extremist" to describe your mind set on the topic yesterday.

That word first came up when I said that the way you made assumptions about me reminded me of extremists who assume I don't believe in God because I believe in evolution.

I also pointed out that the way you were looking at the topic yesterday in such black and white terms made you appear to be an extremist on that topic, since extremists lack the ability to see shades of grey.


The opposite of extremism is not extremism. It is as I described it in my "long and boring" post.

I believe in freedom and liberty and keeping the government out of our lives. If that is "extremist," then our Founding fathers should be given the same label.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 9 months ago

Posted by GOP: "I specifically asked you both if you thought was proper behavior for either a man or a woman to deliberately destroy the other person's property just to push his/her buttons....Neither of you answered that question so it appears that you both do believe that destroying another person's property is acceptable and not a form of domestic violence."

Posted by S_S yesterday: "In your post you mentioned (hypothetically) that a man may have a need to restrain a woman who is breaking all his stuff. NO...he has a need to call the police and have THEM restrain her." Oh, yeah, clearly I am condoning this behavior of the woman by saying that the man should call the police on her. And, apparantly you are either a liar, falsely stating that I didn't answer the question, or you are just clearly warped and simple. Yes, you may quote me on that.

Now it is starting to storm outside and I value my computer more than anything you have to blab on about.

scarlets_talk 11 years, 9 months ago

craigers, if you're still wondering about which pills do what,

Rx birth control: "'The pill'" is the common name for oral contraception. There are two basic types - combination pills and progestin-only pills. Both are made of hormones like those made by a woman's ovaries. Combination pills contain estrogen and progestin. Both types require a medical evaluation and prescription. Both can prevent pregnancy. Combination pills usually work by preventing a woman's ovaries from releasing eggs (ovulation). They also thicken the cervical mucus, which keeps sperm from joining with an egg.

Progestin-only pills usually work by thickening the cervical mucus. Less often, they prevent ovulation."

The Plan B pill: "EC contains hormones found in birth control pills and prevents pregnancy by stopping ovulation or fertilization. Theoretically, EC could also prevent implantation, but that has not been proven scientifically."


In essence, they do the same thing--PREVENT FERTILIZATION. That means they PREVENT the joining of egg and sperm, meaning there is NO CONCEPTION. Perhaps Morgan Fulmer should have done some research before calling it murder....

GOPConservative 11 years, 9 months ago


You still have not specifically stated whether you believe it is wrong for one party to trash the other's possessions in order to push buttons and incite violence.

Not only did you once again avoid answering the question, but you "hurled" yet another arrogant insult.


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