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What do you think about the foiled terror plot in London?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on August 11, 2006

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Photo of Suzzie Downey

“I think that our administration needs to take the situation more seriously and deal with it more creatively. They need to become even more stringent. I just don’t understand the hatred behind it - that’s the most disturbing thing to me.”

Photo of Thanh Do

“It makes me nervous because I have people coming to visit me by plane and it’s coming up on the five-year anniversary of 9-11.”

Photo of Lyle Fergus

“I’m actually surprised they haven’t made more attempts. It makes me wonder if they have the ability. Maybe we overestimate them.”

Photo of Molly Krishtalka

“We know that there are going to be more terror plots. They aren’t going to stop trying. It’s the government’s job to prevent terrorism and protect us, so props to Scotland Yard.”

Comments

oldgranny 8 years, 1 month ago

It comes at time-as most of the threats seems too-when the Republicans are unhappy with out come of the Ct. primary. Oil prices are almost sure to go up because of the pipeline in Alaska and the prospects for the Nov. elections don't look very rosy for them either. I'm sorry but I have to question it.

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MWIV 8 years, 1 month ago

oldgranny - You are giving the Republicans too much credit that they can actually pull off such a stunt. Give me a break. Until you have proof, drop the conspiracy theories! Just accept the fact that there are some people out there that are really nasty and they want both you and me (and our families) DEAD! They could care less if you or I are a Democrat or Republican.

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Nikki May 8 years, 1 month ago

I am happy that if there was a plot that it was stopped. I'm not happy we can't buy a water before getting on a flight and take it with us. I'm usually extremely thirsty on a flight. Oh well, I'd rather not be blown up.

Usually I ONLY take carry on. I know many people do. This will change that for everyone.

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tell_it_like_it_is 8 years, 1 month ago

If the dummy in the control would have stuck with the real war on terror in Afganastan instead of turning around and invading Iraq like an idiot and spending most of our time on that then maybe they would have nipped this stuff already.

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bmwjhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Wag The Dog.

I want someone to hide a bomb in his or her underwear, so passengers have to take them off before going through security. It would make the screening process much more worthwhile for me.

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hottruckinmama 8 years, 1 month ago

i think i would sure make a make-up company rich after i landed. i don't go anywhere with out a couple kinds of perfume mascara blush lipstick and foundation and hair gel and spray.

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sgtwolverine 8 years, 1 month ago

blue, "good job British security" doesn't involve "i don't like [insert politician/party here], and this gives me another excuse to bash him/it." That knocks out a number of responses.

Terror plots are a part of our world. Good job British security, indeed, for catching this one.

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hottruckinmama 8 years, 1 month ago

tee-hee. before long we'll be flying naked. that could be a really nice thing or a really not so nice thing! sorry. i know its no laughing matter-but if we didn't laugh once in a while we'd probably cry.

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sgtwolverine 8 years, 1 month ago

Okay, I'm looking for a show of hands. Who wants to see R_I's idea -- naked travelers -- become a reality?

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southerngirl 8 years, 1 month ago

I think it was a plot by the airlines so that people couldn't bring food and drinks on board the plane anymore. Now passengers have to pay for all of their drinks and snacks. On a Northwest flight to San Antonio this summer, they were actually charging $1.00 for the snack! Now they'll start charging for the soda and water since we are all trapped! I know, I know, food isn't banned yet, but just wait, the plan is all coming together for them...

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southerngirl 8 years, 1 month ago

Naked travelers...good name for a rock band...

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MWIV 8 years, 1 month ago

I don't mind people bashing Bush. That is your right. What I don't like is when someone bashes him or any other politican without any proof of their argument. By doing so shows one's intellect or lack thereof.

News reports are suggesting that US intelligence tipped off the British of the plot. Can't wait until the New York Times finds this out. Surely, the administration MUST have done something illegal! :)))

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sister 8 years, 1 month ago

Haven't heard much feedback about flying Kris Airlines . . . however, I have flown R.I. naked and won't recommend it to others. Bumpy take-offs, abrupt landings . . .

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Moderateguy 8 years, 1 month ago

I would agree that we're at war with terror. The thing that everybody stays away from is that the basic problem is the religion. We can't say that though, because a bunch of people will be offended and start burning flags and yelling at the t.v. cameras. The previous terrorists and this new bunch of wackos all come from different places with different backgrounds. The only really common thread is Islam. If what Al Qeida believes in is such a perversion of the faith, then why aren't the other Muslims working to correct this misunderstanding? The terrorist organizations receive popular and financial support from other Muslims. I'm going to go ahead and say it. Islam is a screwed up religion! If you have the faith and disagree, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

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Richard Heckler 8 years, 1 month ago

I would say that British Intelligence have well proved that an all out war killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan is doing little to make the war on terror viable. Covert intelligence operations concentrated in the right places is the most effective although not as sensational and accompanied with wanton destruction of property and families.

Blair is going bye bye sooner than he had planned due to his blundering part in the Iraq slaughter. And Bush has more planned slaughter on his table in other countries. When the Bush admin speaks of regime change in Iran or Syria WE KNOW what that means. Iraq and Afghanistan are perfect examples.

Those trillions of tax dollars being spent in Iraq and Afghanistan could have been better spent on alternative energy, healthcare for all,bribing the USA auto industry to manufacture more hybrids as well as public and higher education. Think of the payback in terms of jobs for americans.

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justsomewench 8 years, 1 month ago

circumcisms. is that a condition of circumstance?

word'o'd'day. i like it.

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Moderateguy 8 years, 1 month ago

I think the item you're missing Merrill is the issue of nuclear weapons. The reason we are forced to deal with regime change etc. is the threat posed by a single nuclear weapon. We're not talking about a few hundred people in a plane. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of people. That's what really wakes up the people in charge in the middle of the night in a cold sweat. Ultimately I agree with you on the alternative energy. It's the only way we can cut their funding, and let the gulf to return to camels, tents, and tribal warfare.

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Lulu 8 years, 1 month ago

Bushie's poll rankings are horrible, Israel is dropping bombs on children and Cindy Sheehan is paying him a visit. I love that girl! Time for the foiled plot. Come on people! Wake up and smell the coffee!

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sgtwolverine 8 years, 1 month ago

merrill, not to get too much off-topic, but don't get too excited about hybrids. Did you know there are diesel-powered cars in Europe whose mileage is at least as good as that of hybrids here? Hybrids are fun P.R. and a good way to look green, but they're not really all that spectacular.

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sgtwolverine 8 years, 1 month ago

Didn't you know, omb? The two major parties actually control every major world event. Iran and its nuclear program are actually run by a House subcomittee. It is also rumored that the two parties take turns organizing and foiling terror plots.

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gccs14r 8 years, 1 month ago

I find it funny that some people dismiss BushCo's ability to engineer an event to herd the electorate, but those same people fully believe that a bunch of 14th century cave-dwellers can fund and execute such coordinated schemes.

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sgtwolverine 8 years, 1 month ago

They had a diesel Liberty for a while, and I guess it sold well, but for some reason they discontinued it. At the 2005 Detroit Auto Show, DCX was making a major diesel push, promising lots of new diesel models in conjunction with the new regulations on diesel fuel (making it cleaner). I'm hoping they follow through on that. High-mileage diesel cars (50-60mpg) have been in production for a while in Europe, so there's no doubt the technology exists.

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Klickhammer 8 years, 1 month ago

Terrorism, the new communism.

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lunacydetector 8 years, 1 month ago

isn't it funny, the terrorists keep the oil prices jacked up and the enviro-terrorists keep us from driving diesel powered cars? the jeep liberty diesel and the diesel powered volkswagen toureg were discontinued because of the phased in environmental requirements. jeep is offering a grand cherokee with a mercedes diesel in the united states because it is higher tech. surely others will follow including the 300 chryslers. other american makes and models with diesel engines are being sold in europe but not in the united states. you'd figure with the Kyoto treaty b.s., the europeans would have as strict environmental controls on their vehicles as us, but they don't, thus we get to miss out on getting some decent fuel mileaged cars.

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sgtwolverine 8 years, 1 month ago

I think that's how Suzzie is dealing with the situation more creatively.

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craigers 8 years, 1 month ago

When Lulu agrees with the ideas you are posting on this board, it should make you question your own credibility.

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sunflower_sue 8 years, 1 month ago

Just "taking off" for Iowa. Just for fun, we will be traveling naked and without any bottled liquids in the car. Don't know how we'll explain it if we get pulled over... If you see a van carrying 4 bicycles on the back, honk at us! (Now I'm just picturing Queen's album cover for "Fat Bottomed Girls.")

Ya'll have a good weekend. Adios amigos!

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sgtwolverine 8 years, 1 month ago

Not only that, but she got her family involved, too. That's what I call commitment and zeal.

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ronwell_dobbs 8 years, 1 month ago

I'm having a great time watching the U.S. politicians try so very desperately to attach U.S. intelligence and law enforcement assets to the foiled terror plot. Looks like the Brittish intel/law enforcement community got it right, and bully for them.

I do believe that Americans consider protection from this type of thing to be a baseline requirement for a government, not some kind of "special" talent that only one party or another can provide. I think the Republicans will lose on the stale message of "safe with us, in danger with them", but that's why we have elections.

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Alfred_W 8 years, 1 month ago

Just goes to underscore the point that the battle against terrorism should be a law enforcement operation, not a military one.

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bugmenot 8 years, 1 month ago

The craziest thing about this whole situation is how they are handling liquids now.

IF a liquid is possibly explosive, and too dangerous to bring on a plane, why are they having people dump them into a container with all the other possibly explosive liquids? In a crowded airport? Doesn't that seem like a recipe for disaster?

Or just a recipe to keep people scared?

Here... this person explains the idiocy of this better than I could.

http://www.boingboing.net/2006/08/10/if_the_liquid_could_.html

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monkeywrench1969 8 years, 1 month ago

YOu have to fight terror on all fronts. In a civilian realm such as in London and US cities in a cops and robbers method and also in a military way as we are doing in Iraq, Afganistan, SOmalia and SUdan where they do not have the same civil structure we do. They are running around with AKs (Russian and Chinese issue I might add). It is a different fighting and investigative structure than in the US and England. THe majority of cops in England don't carry guns.

Anyone who has even play a simple game of stratego knows you surround the bad guys anyway possible. Look where Iraq and Afganistan are located in relation to Iran and Syria.

We are putting pressure on Iran in a variety of ways and if you think they don't have a hand in the terror plots around the world as does Syria and Saddam and Taliban you are mistaken. Guess who had Bin Laden's son and just released him to fight in Lebanon. IRan.

http://news.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/... http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060802/wl_n...

http://www.worldthreats.com/al-qaeda_ter...

His early back ground:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/0...

We are never going to fight the old time war of WWI or WWII and you folks who can not think outside of the box are right up there with the command in Viet Nam who wanted to continue a conventional war against the North Viets and VC. THey wern't playing by the diplomatic rules in the same manner the folks in Iraq Afganistan, Lebanon and else were are doing today. Bruce WIllis andhis team of ten Navy SEALS are not going to mop up Iraq in less than a couple days.

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ronwell_dobbs 8 years, 1 month ago

Do you remember the media fascination with "gangs" in the late 1980s? Gangs were coming to all kinds of cities in the Midwest: Wichita, Omaha, Des Moines. It was a national epidemic and we were all to become victims. Well not really anything demographics-wise has changed since then, but we don't seem to be afraid anymore. Any guesses as to why?

Read Glassner's book "The Culture of Fear" to get a good understanding of this phenomenon.

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sgtwolverine 8 years, 1 month ago

Ooh. Dolph Lundgren. That would be fun.

When do we call in the A-Team?

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Laura 8 years, 1 month ago

El Al has never had any problems. Perhaps we would do well to follow their example.

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adky 8 years, 1 month ago

Just ban all foreigners from our airlines. If I let the neighbor's kid play with my kid's toys and he destroys them, he no longer gets to play with them. It would solve so many of our problems.

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Fangorn 8 years, 1 month ago

Laura: Following El Al's security examples would be great. Except for the fact that they're uttelry politically incorrect. This is America: we'd rather let people be killed by terrorists than risk offending them in any way!

This goes along with an excellent point Moderateguy made earlier. The PC police keep us from talking about the issue honestly. We can't even mention the religion involved, let alone act upon this common thread. And so we have a system that treats Mrs. Svenson flying in from Sweden and little Bobby (not one of our Bobs) catching a flight to visit grandma as an equal security threat as Achmed wearing his "Death to America" shirt paying cash for a one-way ticket with no luggage while purusing his surveillance photos of high-density population areas. Someone earlier mentioned wasted resources. That's what I'd call the time and effort spent on the extra screening of a three-year-old for explosives. I've been in 6 different airports in the last two weeks. This stupidity is everywhere.

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c_doc77 8 years, 1 month ago

Oldgranny is right on. These supposed would-be terrorist attacks always come at opportune times. These are what the military intelligence calls "False Flag" operations. They are fabricated events that seek to sway public sentiment, and control populations through fear.

This is nothing new. Hitler used false flags to manipulate the German people, just as LBJ contrived the Gulf of Tonkin incident as a pretext get involved with the Vietnam conflict. These actions have been used by governments throughout history.

But don't take my word for it. Google "Operation Northwoods", and you'll discover a declassified government document that details a U.S. government plot to provoke Cuba into war that proposed the deaths of innocent Americans that was to be blamed on the Cubans. 9/11 is also a classic example of a false flag operation.

Instead of writing me off as a nut, get informed and find out the carefully documented truth. Visit infowars.com or watch "Terrorstorm" on google video for free.

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Linda Aikins 8 years, 1 month ago

"Neighbors identified one of the suspects as Don Stewart-Whyte, 21, from High Wycombe, a convert who changed his name to Abdul Waheed. An unnamed neighbor told the Associated Press that Waheed used to smoke marijuana and drink before converting to Islam six months ago and grew a full beard."

I found this kind of sadly funny.

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geekin_topekan 8 years, 1 month ago

Another example of how the world is not safer and is,in fact,becoming more and more dangerous under ws watch. Don't let this become another excuse to limit more of our freedom.Under this watch we have managed to destroy what took hundreds of patriots years to establish.Lets not let them die in vain.

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monkeywrench1969 8 years, 1 month ago

C-Doc

Sorry Bush is either an idiot who can't make things happen and run and war in Iraq or Afganistan or he is the most brilliant manipulator the world has ever known to pull off his bidding. You can't have it both ways.

Bob you are right I forgot about Chuck. Lets break the glass and turn him loose.

Actually my point if it was lost in translation wtih Bruce Willis is for some reason the public has a perception a war can be won over night and unfortunately we have been led to believe our SPecial ops guys can get this done in small numbers with little to no loss of life. The Soldiers in their specific campaigns are working their butts off and with a lower loss of life partially due to the good training we give our troops and the advances in modern medicine.

The IED and explosive style attacks have been used forever all over the world it is cheap, easy to deploy and has the same effect every time... death and destruction in populated areas. Plus the media is all over the aftermath.

I would challenge any media organization to just report the events without the pictures and videos and see if the terrorists would get the same bang for their buck. They would not shock terror factor. Has anyone here has a female or male friend who had a stalker ex that would trash personal belongings and present the damaged property in a way to scare and shock. This is the same concept.

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gccs14r 8 years, 1 month ago

Monkey,

W is just the current mouthpiece of BushCo. Daddy is fully capable.

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joshs_mom 8 years, 1 month ago

O'Reilly had a good point on Fox's "O'Reilly Factor" last night.

US uses "probable cause" for search and seizure, while Great Britain uses "reasonable suspicion."

Terror plot may not have been foiled if they had been planning it in the US instead of the UK.

But still-when would reasonable suspicion go to far?

I think that is the big question we are still dealing with almost 5yrs after 9-11. Where does the line get drawn? Some feel if you aren't conspiring or doing anything illegal then you shouldn't worry. I agree somewhat, but still it seems like we should have some privacy left.

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monkeywrench1969 8 years, 1 month ago

Geek we have had terrorism in the US for years but we write it off becasue we are more interested in ourselves. We have had terror groups preying on US citizens for years but we often refer to them as criminals even though their methods are the same as Jihadists.

Remember the

Ohio Seven, The Weathermen, KKK, The Order, SLA, Eric Rudolph, The OK City Bombing, The First Attack on the World Trade Center, The Unibomber, ELF/ALF, Buford Furrow, Benjamin Nathian Smith...

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Gareth Skarka 8 years, 1 month ago

Yeah, it's not like the Bush Administration is blowing this out of proportion in order for their own political gain....

Oh wait. Yes, it is....and they admit it:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060810/pl_afp/britainattacksairline_060810185330

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gccs14r 8 years, 1 month ago

Monkey,

Do you prefer freedom or security? You can't have both. Trying to have a little of each gives you none of either one.

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monkeywrench1969 8 years, 1 month ago

Both sides are blowing it out of proportion. The Dems are saying look they can't protect us and all it is doing is making terrorism worse...the republicans are bagging on the Dem softies on terror.

Meet inthe middle. Guys and get some work done. Concede on certain issues and get to work on the issues instead of playing for the cameras.

What I find interesting is the number of former and current dems who had close dealings with Arab folks and are now saying we need to back off and come back home.

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monkeywrench1969 8 years, 1 month ago

GCC

We have both. It is obvious. What was your daily schedule yesterday. Were you able to do what you wanted and say what you wanted to say to your frieds while eating your favorite food and watch your favorite movie without censorship.

They caught the bad guys without interfering with your daily schedule barring if you took a flight out or were planning to in the next couple of weeks until they figure out how to detect the new for of explosive components.

Get use to it. Sometimes we have to follow rules that we don't like to follow, but it is required. I used to jump off the swings at home, but when I went to school I was not allowed to...did that restrict my right to freedom to do what I wanted ...no only at school mostly becasue it was a safety issue and at home my mom did not catch me. was it dangerous either way...yeah I did not scream up tot he teacher and make demands becasue I could not do at school what I did at home. We are spoiled as a nation.

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craigers 8 years, 1 month ago

I think Arminius and Gareth would be a match made in heaven. Give them their own little blog site to post back and forth about Bad Clinton's and the Bad Bush's.

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Kontum1972 8 years, 1 month ago

ROVE ,CHENEY, RUMSFELD are the TRIAD of evil the DECIDER is the dumb puppet

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Linda Aikins 8 years, 1 month ago

Posted by The_Original_Bob (anonymous) on August 11, 2006 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"An unnamed neighbor told the Associated Press that Waheed used to smoke marijuana and drink before converting to Islam six months ago and grew a full beard.""

Could have been describing me during college. Except for the conversion to Islam part.

Actually (and this is the truth), I meant to ask if that was you, TOB, but I had to go all of a sudden and do some work. I hate it when that happens.

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gccs14r 8 years, 1 month ago

"We have both. It is obvious. What was your daily schedule yesterday. Were you able to do what you wanted and say what you wanted to say to your frieds while eating your favorite food and watch your favorite movie without censorship."

Amendment zones. Fox News. BSE. Need I go on?

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c_doc77 8 years, 1 month ago

Monkey, I'm not saying Bush is an idiot or a mastermind. I'm not even talking strictly in terms of conspiracy theories - at least not to the degree of crowning Bush as someone of intelligence. Things are not black and white. Nor are they left and right. Whether Bush is smart or not is not the issue. An administration is comprised of a number of persons, with one individual as its figurehead. So to say its all Bush is stupid, because its as much Rice, Rumsfeld, and Cheney as it is Bush, and others whose names you wouldn't recognize.

There is an international agenda at work here, and it is well documented. Get informed. Erase from your mentality this false American left/right paradigm. Things are much more complex than that. Ask yourself who stands to gain from these supposed terrorist plans. Al Quaida and other "terrorist" groups? I don't think so. Who do you think funded these organizations to begin with?

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itsjustmyopinion 8 years, 1 month ago

Hey Suzzie,

Nice photo, but what is it you want the gov. to do? Did you mean America or Britian? That is just what we need, our Gov. being more stringent in telling us what we can and can't do in a "free" country. Give credit where credit is do....Good job guys, and thank you for doing such a good job. Believe me, I would be the first to slam our Gov. if....when they do something stupid, but maybe we should all try thanking them once in a while. Really, try it, it does not hurt.

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mom_of_three 8 years, 1 month ago

Someone asked about the dumping of the liquids in the trash cans, and why they didn't explode -

Because some of them would need to be mixed first, and then you would have to ignite it or make it hot - suggestions were by cell phone trigger.

I have to read about it again to be sure of all the details, but that is the jest of it.
So throwing items in the trash can wouldn't cause an explosion.

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monkeywrench1969 8 years, 1 month ago

C-Doc

Many in the entire government are making huge gains, but you don't understand the thinking of the terrorists we are fighting. They are not trying to make big bucks they are trying to force people to look at them and make themselves feel important.

Bin Laden was one of 50+ children and his mother was not a favorite of the many wives. How are many inthe US want to do better than your brothers and sisters and make a name for yourself. They are trying to create fear which in their mind gives them power. Most of these people have a "private audience" they are trying to prove something to and this is their vehilce. They will never stop period and someone will always take their place.

The terrorists win as long as they get their name int he history book for some big event they were involved in...no different than the mass murder or serial killer... it is the cult of personality.

And far as funding, we funded bin laden and many others during the cold war. "My enemy's enemy is my friend" We were playing both sides in the Iran/Iraq War. Times have changed but the thought process of terrorists haven't. What did the 1999 WTO protests/direct actions change nothing in terms of capitalism, but it did give the cops a reason to whoop ass at the next major protests in other cities.

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itsjustmyopinion 8 years, 1 month ago

c_doc77

Take your medicine, have a drink, relax and enjoy your freedom. You come across as educated and well spoken, but if you are that afraid of your gov, go find a better country to live in. I am not saying that all is well here. But come on, to compare Bush to Hitler???? Please! Conspiracies, sure. But you too need to be carefull what you read and use a little cynicism when you chose to believe (or don't believe) what you read.

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itsjustmyopinion 8 years, 1 month ago

And by the way, don't confuse hatred with jealousy. Jealousy is a very strong emotion.

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itsjustmyopinion 8 years, 1 month ago

Here here, monkeywrench! Now here is an educated man....person....sorry.

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adky 8 years, 1 month ago

Tony - What is idiotic or immature about banning foreigners? Ever worked for a defence contractor? No foreigners are allowed on certain projects because of security concerns. That includes all those here legally, stealing our high tech jobs. If it makes sense for those jobs, why doesn't it make sense for our airlines? And, you may have noticed that our society is multiracial, so I resent your racist slur.

As for the rest of your polite comments, I suggest if the idiot test were applied, I would be here and you would be over in britain with the terrorists and criminals wishing you were here.

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Confrontation 8 years, 1 month ago

Hasn't anyone ever heard the saying, "I'm not a Suzzie homemaker"? She picked the wrong "profession" for her name.

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jayhawks71 8 years, 1 month ago

This "terrorism bust" was rather conveniently timed for both governments, which have come under fire for a variety of questionable beahaviors. I am not sure why Americans have been so gullible as to believe that there was even a plot. Was there a plot? I surely cannot rely on the government to give me a straight story, and the news outlets are relying on government officials for every bit of what they report.

While everything reported might be true, be more critical of what you are told. The government uses information as a tool to form the opinions of its citizenry. Too many people are ready to conclude that "see the government would have missed this had they not been invading everyone's privacy left and right." We are already hearing that one of the people arrested was released without charge. How many more will be released without a charge? Perhaps none, perhaps most.

The whole thing just seems suspicious; the government needs to justify abridging freedoms and the best way to do that is to scare the populous. Terrorism is about a mindset; the government cannot protect you from what you think- rather they attempt to control what you think. Don't let the government scare you; don't let "terrorists" terrorize you. It is still far more dangerous to get in your car and drive each day than it is to get on an airplane.

Whether this is "real" or "manufactured" the goal is to place more controls on citizens and to further the tracking (e.g., RealID) of citizens. And for those who quip, "well if you don't like it you can leave", no, if you don't like the principles on which this country was founded, then YOU LEAVE.

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jayhawks71 8 years, 1 month ago

A war on terror is an unwinnable war; among the many absurdities spewed by government officials, namely, the one in charge, is the concept that we will "win" this war on terrorism. How does one know when the war is won? If you can't identify the conditions on which the war is won, how can you win? Even Monopoly has a description of what it means to win. A war on terror does not nor can it every.

How will one define winning? None of the possibilities is sufficient. Capture Bin Laden? (a non-issue anymore);A moratorium on terrorist activities for X days, weeks, months? (but terror is a mindset, how long is long enough and to whom?); A failure to "bust" any more terrorist plots? (no more plots or government failure to uncover them?). 50.1 percent of the population votes and decides that we "won"? A politician claiming victory? (the same way "victory" in Iraq was proclaimed with the end of combat operations 3 years ago?) A Gallup poll in which people say they are "no longer concerned about terrorism?"

And when do we get our freedoms back, or, as is typical with government, once something is taken, you don't get it back. That we just have to "realize the world is different?"

The war on terror is bogus because the terror is generated and propagated by government. Ambiguous threat levels, news reports of "busts", uninformative claims that there are "bad people out there that want to harm us" (us being the US government, not its citizens. How are any of these doing anything but fueling the terrorists goals? How is removing freedoms and making people's lives more difficult and harming the economy by raising fears of people flying with hair gel or lip balm not facilitating their goals?

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monkeywrench1969 8 years, 1 month ago

"Winning the war on Terror" means the country and world working together to catch the bad guys before they commit the act against innocents.

We will always have to worry about terrorism period. We have had terrorist acts inthe US before 911 and they are going to get by us in the future that is certain.

Many of our Lone Wolf killers in the US are not classified as terrorists by FBI stats and are listed as crimes. Their motivations are to create terror in certain populations of people as well as the status quo.

Jayhawk

What freedoms did you lose yesterday in your daily schedule. Did you have anyone from Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Pakistan call yesterday and you were worried about the government listening in...

Also the great founding fathers who created these freedoms you are so scared are going to be taken away owned slaves of a particular race (and even experimented with Native Americans in the beginning and then switched to Africans), did not allow women to vote as well as maintained a serf type workers program on their properties.

As far as how good we have it here...many of our lower income are obese unlike other countries, many own cars (even if they are junkers), are afforded some form of education and qualified for finicial assistance for school and after school programs as well as coninuing education.

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jayhawks71 8 years, 1 month ago

Monkey, oh, so a never-ending chase for you has a "win" point; I disagree. A War on terrorism has no end; and supported by your second sentence.

What freedom did I lose yesterday? Why the pinpointing of yesterday. The actions of yesterday are simply a maneuver to get more people on-board the "well I guess we have to give things up to be safe" camp. The utter foolishness of people to simply acquiesce to government orders pushes us closer to the police state we claim to hate (afterall, being free is the antithesis of a police state). The government moves toward police state more efficiently by getting the people to put up less and less of a fight (justification for elimination of liberty). You perhaps do not enjoy liberty; I do.

You clearly are not afraid of your freedoms being taken away by the state; I most certainly am. The state taketh but does not returneth. Further, the government isn't merely listening in to people talking across the ocean. If you buy that, then you are clearly the mindset they want to convince.

As for the founding fathers, if you did a little searching, you would find that many of the founders, especially Jefferson, were deeply torn on the issue of slavery. They ultimately gave in on the issue (not without a fight) in order to form the Union that we have; the union would never have been formed had they not given in on the issue; however, the 3/5ths of a person rule, contrary to what many conclude was one to minimize the clout that Southern slaveholding states had in the federal system. Slaves never voted; yet, had they been counted as a "full person", yet not allowed to vote, the South would have had lopsided representation in Congress.

Further, your attack amounts to nothing more than an ad hominem... "they did something that we now see as wrong so everything they did was bad" is really what you are saying. Clearly you are in the minority if your conclusion is that the US Constitution is just "bad stuff" created by "bad men."

Your last paragraph is the quintessential non-sequitur. The poor are fat because they eat high carbohydrate high fat foods(read cheap). The rest of what you present is underacheiving government in action; taking from each of us and deciding to whome to give the fruits of our labor. How good we have it here.... imagine how good we would have it here if government weren't holding us all back so much; we aren't where we are because government got us here (well, some of the bad is indeed due to government meddling around the world) but in spite of government's inefficiency and force used upon citizens.

If you don't like what the Constitution stands for and that those "bad men" spewed their 'bad ideas" through it, then stop reveling in its protections.

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ConservativeMan2006 8 years, 1 month ago

Good post monkeywrench1969

For me - being on the offense is the key. I say that we capture any Islamic fundamentalist looking character, hold him/her hostage, then cut his/her head off on TV. Who cares if it happens to be an innocent person. We have people in our own country that excuse the terrorist and defend the terrorist for doing the same thing. Let's start fighting the damn war in the same manner that the terrorist fight it and stop concentrating on going after Bush because we can't get over the 2000 elections. PLUS, maybe if we fight the war like this, we'll get the liberals off Bush's case and his popularity will rise since most liberals are more concern about whether Iraq had WMD, or if Bush's invading the personal space of a foreign digitary. Fact is - these people want us dead - ALL OF US! Bush is exactly what this country needed at this time in our history. He wasn't and isn't afraid of doing the right thing regardless of what the weakminded, liberal left thinks or how tough the liberal driven media can be on him.

Thank goodness for Fox News so we at least get some truth about what is going on in this world.

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ConservativeMan2006 8 years, 1 month ago

The above comment was sarcasm for those of you boiling a new vein in your neck.

It amazes me that people don't believe that this war is necessary. We know Islamic fundamentalists want us DEAD. They've proven that they will come to our own soil to do it and we have idiots making their jobs easier by making up conspiracy theories that our government was responsible for 9-11 as well as ripping Bush for doing the right thing even though it happens to also be the hard thing.

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Gareth Skarka 8 years, 1 month ago

That's the funniest parody of a modern Conservative that I've ever read. Kudos!

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beatrice 8 years, 1 month ago

"But come on, to compare Bush to Hitler???? Please!" I agree. For starters, their boots are completely different.

Well done, chaps, I say to the British. I don't care if it does mean we can't fly with toothpaste anymore. So be it. If buying travel size items after you land is necessary, I can live with that. In fact, the whole "I can live" is the key. I also agree with Fangorn that being too PC at security checkpoints can get us killed.

As far as conspiracy theories go -- we are too far away from November elections for this to have a lasting effect. If it really is a bogus story aimed at bulstering support for the war, the timing is against them. If Republicans and the British Conservative Party had planned this, it would have taken place the week before the election. But not now.

CM2006: The reason some of us don't believe that this war is necessary is because we feel it is simply the wrong war. Afghanistan - Yes! Iraq - No! We had Iraq under basic lockdown with the no fly zones. If Saddam was killing his own, that is certainly a bad thing, but he wasn't killing us. There were no WMDs -- even if people still (amazingly) believe there were. It was just Saddam ranting, like a child who has been sent to their room for throwing a temper tantrum. Now, more than 2500 Americans have been killed and Iraq is a breeding ground for would-be terrorists -- all at a cost of what will be more than $1 trillion. Our military actions have had the effect of swatting a hornets nest with a stick -- nothing good has come of it. But we do need to keep up our efforts (as the Brits have just done) in our continued war against terrorism.

And yes, I was just kidding about the boots. It is silly to compare anyone who hasn't killed millions of Jews to Hitler and the Nazis. (So, can we all now stop using terms like feminazi?)

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geekin_topekan 8 years, 1 month ago

Conservativeman's parodies do make me laugh.I can't imagine what a real conservative thinks of them!!

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jayhawks71 8 years, 1 month ago

Conservative, you confuse the means with the ends.

beatrice, the magic of this country, if there ever was a magic, is that what you decide for YOU should not infringe on what I decide is for me. So what if YOU don't care if you can't fly with a particular item; you mistake babysteps toward a police state with standing still. People keep looking at moves in isolation; it is rampants in these forums; the focus isn't that you can't take a tube of toothpaste on a plane; that is ONE of HUNDREDS of changes on air travel. And, getting in your car can get you killed. Soon, we will be banning humans, as we are mostly liquid.

Oh yes, don't forget to remind me that if I have nothing to hide, I shouldn't care if some government official rummages through my life. If I have nothing to hide then you have no reason to rummage through my life.

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beatrice 8 years, 1 month ago

jh71: Giving up toothpaste as a carry-on item is hardly the same as allowing the government complete access to rummage through my life. It is allowing an airline company to rummage through my luggage. If the current means of quickly examining carry on luggage can't tell the difference between explosives and Crest, then I say lets leave the Crest at home -- or in the checked luggage.

I agree, our government doesn't have the right to rummage through our lives (collecting a list of phone calls made, for instance, is terribly upsetting to me). Air travel, however, isn't a right, it is a commercial choice for travel. Safety is a priority. You are correct that you can die while driving, that is why precautions such as using a seatbelt is something I always do, and it is a law in most states. Many things can kill you, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have safety regulations to best prevent it when possible.

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ronwell_dobbs 8 years, 1 month ago

"things can kill you, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have safety regulations to best prevent it when possible."

I just have to ask if it then would make sense to ban firearms in the name of safety?

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jayhawks71 8 years, 1 month ago

beatrice, are you getting what I said? I didn't say that giving up toothpaste is the same as allowing the government access to your entire life. It is ONE piece of the problem. Its so subtle and that's the idea, you are so willing to say "its just toothpaste..." it isnt "just toothpaste", there are hundreds of items you can't bring on a plane. By acquiescing to smaller demands, you will be more likely to give in to a larger demand. It is a basic concept in human behavior (known as the foot in the door phenomenon).

And why are you so eager to believe everything the government tells you. Getting the truth out of the government typically involves lawsuits, investigations, and leaks. Stop eating the slop they want to feed you. Perhaps there was a huge plot, but there is great value to a police state to have an example of where "spying" turns something up. It gives people who don't think very hard an excuse to support a police state. If you are so worried, go live in a canyon in montana far from civilization if you want ultra security.Life has risks.

And you are right, you don't give the government access to your life, they take it. It is your own duty to protect it. If you want to open your door to them be my guest, that is your right to control your property as you see fit. If you "haven't done anything" and you choose to let them in to sift through your life, then by all means do, that is YOUR CHOICE. Others would like to maintain the CHOICE.

What will be enough for you beatrice? When the "see through your clothes" scanners are put into place? The National ID card with RFID? Mandatory fingerprinting to get on a plane? Strip search? Body cavity search? Which one of these, if any would "go too far" for you? It is much easier to take small steps to reach the ultimate violations than to take a big leap from toothpaste to rectal inspection (which, by the way can be done at a border without a warrant). Shall we just do this each time you get on a plane from KC to Dallas? How about a DNA sample to travel? Heck, you don't even have to give blood, just a little swabbing of your mouth should do.

and no, beatrice, you shouldn't be FORCED by government to protect your own life! If you want to wear a seatbelt, great, if you don't and your head becomes part of the pavement, that's your choice. Same with helmet laws. Let people decide for themselves. In michigan they are trying to enact laws that allow the police to take your blood on the side of the road to determine if you have smoked pot in the last 3 months, and if you have, you will be charged with DUI! Is that enough for you beatrice? You want police drawing blood on the side of the road?

And by the way, people who checked the baggage curbside were in line to go through the metal detectors for FOUR HOURS (hardly a quick process) yesterday.

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lunacydetector 8 years, 1 month ago

isn't it time for racial profiling at airports of people of middle eastern descent? after all, all of the alqaida terrorists look like they are from the middle east. it would make air travel faster and safer.

i wonder if most americans would agree?

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beatrice 8 years, 1 month ago

jh71: sometimes, it is just toothpaste.

I absolutely do not believe everything (likely not even 50%) of what the government tells us, which is especially true with the current administration. Without going into a long list of examples, I ask that you just take my word for it (see omb's comment above). You and I are likely closer to being on the same page than you might think.

However, this doesn't mean I believe nothing the government tells us. I will not just toss away a report that terrorists were trying to blow up planes using various liquids that, when combined, can be used as bombs. Nor do I think this is just another step in their plan to make us a police state (using plastic and duct tape, however, was). They aren't saying we can't have toothpaste just that we can't have it on planes. No snakes and no toothpaste -- on planes.

I agree with many laws used to protect us (smoking ban in public places, for instance), even though we still die everyday due to things other than natural causes. We can't eliminate automobiles, for instance, or all deaths caused in automobiles, unfortunately. But we can require certain safety standards for auto construction and have laws against things like drinking and driving. These are aimed at the collective good, even if auto manufacturers or distillers might not like them. As far as helmet laws go, I would agree with you that it should be a matter of choice -- if we could allow all those injured in motorcycle accidents without medical insurance to die on the side of the road because of their stupid choice. Just let the road sweeper come by and remove the remains. But we can't. We pay millions and millions of dollars to nurse people back to health (or some version of health that often requires constant care), simply because some doofus didn't want to wear a helmet. Public health funds shouldn't be going to fix those who make stupid choices that could be In a similar fashion, I don't want to get blown out of the sky because too many want to make a stand for carry-on toothpaste.

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beatrice 8 years, 1 month ago

oops, made changes at the end of that, but posted without them. The end of that should read: Public health funds shouldn't be going to fix those who make stupid choices that could be easily avoided. Changing a simple law like making people wear helmets or wear seatbelts is an annoyance to some, but it allows for better allocation of public health funds. In a similar fashion ...

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ModSquadGal 8 years, 1 month ago

What do I think about the foiled terror plot? Uhhhhh, I think I'm glad it wasn't successful??? What kind of a question is that?

I see it in the same way a bull rider sees getting hurt: It's not IF it's going to happen, it's WHEN and HOW BAD. I'm glad they were on the ball for this one, but I seriously doubt they can stop all the plots inevitably aimed at us.

I say we pull in the troops, protect our own citizens and country and send in some SEALS to do a very precise, surgical removal of anyone that thinks they want to mess with the USA. Keep it simple and bad a$$. Obviously negotiations and so-called "action" by the UN is worthless. We need to stop spreading ourselves so thin and policing every single hotspot in the world. If we become silent but deadly, nobody will want to mess with us.

Admittedly, I have much naivite in the matter, but it just seems that keeping things simple at this point is the only way to go.

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