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Do you think the president should fire Donald Rumsfeld?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on April 21, 2006

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Photo of Andy Banks

“Absolutely. His leadership has been called into question on numerous occasions. I think it’s time.”

Photo of Jena Ridolfi

“No, I don’t think he should. He’ll make a good scapegoat later on.”

Photo of Richard Villar

“He should have already gone on his own accord. He’s a 70-something-year-old man, and that’s a very demanding job. I think he’s stayed beyond his usefulness. I don’t understand why he didn’t resign earlier.”

Photo of David Burnham

“Yes, fire him. He doesn’t seem to listen to good military advice.”

Comments

enochville 9 years ago

Absolutely! In the very beginning Rumsfeld asked the president for complete control over the war in Iraq and he would take sole responsibility for the success or failure of the war. Bush likes a take-charge kind of man, so he let him do it. Well, in large measure it is a failure, so get rid of him.

Colin Powell's military doctrine was that you go in with an overwhelming military force. Rumsfeld's doctrine was that you go in with just enough force to (in effect) lose.

The problem is that we have never had complete control of the country as an occupying power. Iraq will result in a civil war if we do not this very moment introduce an overwhelming military presence to crush the insurgency (if the Iraqi leadership will permit it) just as we did in Fallujah. We need to do that in the whole country so that we can hand over a country clean of an organized insurgency to the new Iraqi government.

Where will the troops come from? The American public is sick of the war and will not be all that supportive. Bush must go to the UN and confess that he has screwed up and apologize for the way he treated the UN leading up to our invasion of Iraq and then plead for troops to stabalize the country. He needs to make the case that it is in everyone's best interest to not have Iraq in civil war. If the UN refuses to help then we need to quit rotating our troops and put almost all of them in Iraq to stamp out the insurgency. We should have done this in the beginning. Now may be too late since we have already turned Iraq back over to Iraqi government.

What a mess! Caused by incompetent power seeking idiots. Fire them all.

trinity 9 years ago

i'm not qualified to answer the ots question...because i've just not paid enough attention.

i have a question-is anybody else's "front page" of the ljw the same as it was yesterday??? sheesh!

enochville 9 years ago

Originally posted by R_I: "Maybe the administration should have mandatory assessment tests....

No President Left Behind"

I love it!

Richard Heckler 9 years ago

Here is a good reason for the entire administration to resign:

http://www.blueverticalstudio.com/05/archives/001791.html

In the meantime goodbye Rummy.

enochville 9 years ago

I know that my opinion sometimes does change based on what others say here. Badger and neopolss often say things that I have not considered before and sometimes I adjust my opinion to reflect that.

Much of my opinion on Rumsfeld comes from Thomas Friedman, the NY Times columnist, who I heard interviewed on NPR.

Richard Heckler 9 years ago

enochville, Friedman has been very crtiical of this administration and who has come to realize that the civil war is there in Iraq. Friedman also interviewed on Democracy Now not so long ago. Both interviews were tough on the Iraq war.

Thursday As I was listening to the radio it seems invading Iran will be the legacy of GW according to GW. HE thinks when he invades Iran the people will immediately turn on the existing government. Could this be deja vu?

Speculation tells me Bush never had plans to pull the military out. Why else construct 4 large military bases and a huge Iraq embassy(Iraq white house). Between providing security for the oil lines and these construction projects we may now have an idea what a huge number of our soldiers have been doing in Iraq for the past 3 years. The insurgents are going to love these miltary installations.

sgtwolverine 9 years ago

I love Jena's answer. She should be a politician.

omb, that's a fine prediction for the board, but what would Katie predict for today's board?

neopolss 9 years ago

I appreciate the shoutout enochville. Concerning Rummy, I won't jump on the boat and say it's all his fault. If you ask me, he looks almost as lost as the rest of us. I'm not really sure if he should have ever been in the position he is in. That said, by no means do I think he is great at his job. I also though am a realist and know that there is ZERO chance of him losing his job at the president's hands.

Just please, do not start a conflict with Iran also. It's not going to help. Here's what will happen. Should we strike Iran, Iraq will turn against us. You can say what you want about the Americans helping their country, but don't believe for a second that they would side with the westerners over their Middle Eastern neighbors. They have their differences, but they are brothers of sorts.

Secondly, Iran will probably strike Israel, which in turn will use the oppurtunity to strike Hamas, and the factions will begin to line up. Russia will back Iran secretly, and play the non-involvement card. Germany, France and most of Europe will stay out as long as possible, the UK and USA will face off against an angry middle east. That's my scenario at least.

enochville 9 years ago

Yeah, I know Bush would never go to the UN, hat in hand, and ask for more troops, nor will he fire Rumsfeld. But, that is what I believe should happen.

Chris Tackett 9 years ago

rightthinker: can you back up your accusations of rape & assault? if not, keep your inflamatory lies to yourself.

re: the question of the day, Tim Russert made an interesting comment the other day. He said a source close to the prez said Bush will not fire Rummy 'cause it'd be the equivolent of firing himself. (as in, if one deserves to be fired both deserve to be fired)

My response to that was, "yeah, so what's the problem?"

The only people that still want either of these people running things need to lay off the kool-aid.

cutny 9 years ago

BOOT HIM!!! He's been disregarding others' opinions for far too long. Like most of Bush's administration he is arrogant and out of touch. Get rid of him.

Ceallach 9 years ago

"prosperity, relative peace, and a world that held America in esteem" ------- you gotta be kidding! To summarize the Clinton years in such a way is -------- you were here and old enough to remember, right?

enoch, New York Times??? Say it ain't so.....

Ceallach 9 years ago

OTS question of the day: I too have come to the conclusion that Rumsfeld may not be the person to bring about the desired results in Iraq. I would hope that he would resign, but if that is not going to happen, the President should give Rummy "more time to spend with his family." That seems to be the phrase of choice by politicians. However, the replacement should be someone who can listen to military commanders without being controlled by them. There's a good reason why the position is not in the hands of the military.

enochville 9 years ago

I never said that I agree with everything the New York Times publishes or what any particular person advances. However, I do find Thomas Friedman's plan in Iraq as the first good answer to the Iraq question.

I do remember the Clinton years and I would not characterize them as such.

AlexFenton 9 years ago

Rumsfeld should not be allowed to resign until he completes a tour of duty with an infantry unit in Iraq.

sgtwolverine 9 years ago

i_tching, take a breath. Bush has made plenty of mistakes, and he's certainly not in the running for the best president in history, but I think you're idealizing the Clinton administration a bit much.

sunflower_sue 9 years ago

"No president left behind"...good one RI!

TOB, I know a bit about David Burnham. If you've heard of him it's because his claim to fame is the "Bambi Raptor." (Look it up.) David is KU's in-house dino boy. He has a pretty cool job...if you like to play in the dirt.

Today's topic: I'd rather not upset myself today. I watched Bush before I went to sleep last night and lets just say he has a way of killing the mood. >:(

Cea, Good to see you on here, girlfriend! You've been aloof lately.

Sideshow_Bob 9 years ago

I don't see it getting any better with him stepping down.

Ceallach 9 years ago

I was relieved to read in the UDK that Lawrence will have yet another forum on the homeless. The forum will allow community leaders to respond the ranking of Lawrence as second-meanest city to the homeless. Please send your suggestions to the city commissioners. Lawrence has the opportunity, with a little help from OTS posters, to improve that ranking.

Perhaps the next OTS question should be, "What methods can be implemented to boost our city's National Homeless Coalition ranking from #2 to #1?"

acg 9 years ago

I, also, can't think about it today. All of those blowhard politicians, dems and repubs alike, just p*ss me off to no end. It's too nice outside on this beautiful Friday to spend all day mad because our government is run by imbeciles and morons. I've been mad about it for years, I just don't have it in me today.

sunflower_sue 9 years ago

In order to become the #1 meanest city to the homeless, I think it would be necessary to ban all cardboard.

acg 9 years ago

What ever happened to that whole making them wear badges idea? That would help improve our standings, for sure.

sunflower_sue 9 years ago

Why don't we see the white house lawn turned into a "homeless campground" of sorts. Surely our govt. would jump on the opportunity to help the homeless?

sgtwolverine 9 years ago

sue, maybe there should be a ban on newspapers, too? And shopping carts? I mean, if you want to be #1, you have to make a serious effort.

sunflower_sue 9 years ago

I'm going to go watch plaster dry. Later!

RonBurgandy 9 years ago

Bob's for everyone...

Being #2 gives Lawrence something to strive for.

acg 9 years ago

Yeah, Das, remember that story last year where they were considering having homeless people wear badges so that downtown merchants can identify them. I can't remember the whole story, but I'll search for it now.

Linda Aikins 9 years ago

With a TOB here, and an OMB there. TOB OMB now there is an SB

Sideshow_Bob 9 years ago

I pride myself in following the great footsteps of my fellow ots Bobs.

RonBurgandy 9 years ago

"Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!"

RonBurgandy 9 years ago

Maybe we should all change our monikers to have bob at the end. I can be RonBurgandyBob...

...maybe not.

sgtwolverine 9 years ago

Ron, changing our names to have bob at the end? Would that be like adding "in bed" to fortune cookie fortunes?

RonBurgandy 9 years ago

sgt - similiar I guess. It feel like something should be mentioned about klondike bars...

sgtwolverine 9 years ago

If someone comes in here with the name Klondike_bar, let me say it now: whatever I said I would do for a Klondike bar, I will not do for that Klondike bar.

RonBurgandy 9 years ago

sgt - what would you do for Klondike_Bob?

ms_canada 9 years ago

Absolutely - but of course he would not step down, too bloody arrogant and convinced of his own importance. Before you put GWB and DC back in the Whitehouse for a second term, the world blamed your government for the mess in the Far East. They hated your politicians as war mongers. Then you put the same idiots back in and now they hate all of you. Think about it. You made a mistake the first time and should have recognized it. But a second time??? So, what is to be done now? Would a change of S.of D. change anything? I think you should all nominate enochville for S. of D. And neopolss, would you consider running as his aide?

Linda Aikins 9 years ago

I remember Sgt Prestons! Went there all the time in the 80s.

Thanks!

Gootsie_Bob

citizenatlarge 9 years ago

In response to LJreader.....Trump did everything but say Rumsfeld should be fired. He also said we should "declare victory in Iraq and get out". There's an idea!

enochville 9 years ago

ms_canada: Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't want the job. But, I do think, Thomas Friedman (a democrat with great ideas, rightthinker) would make a great advisor for foriegn policy. Check him out and his book "The World is Flat".

sgtwolverine 9 years ago

Klondike_Bob? Now that's an unbeatable combination. I would take Rumsfeld's job for Klondike_Bob!

Next up: Das_Bob.

verity 9 years ago

If you are concerned about the U.S. invading Iran, then write, call, email your U.S. representatives and senators. Don't know if anything can be done, as this administration listens to no one and seems to be completely delusional, but shouldn't we be trying to do something? I think it's time for rational people to be running around with their hair on fire.

Linda Aikins 9 years ago

I don't think this Bob craze will compare to the Wally World craze on another post. We are going to be blessed with a new Wak-Mart now.

kansas_prairieland 9 years ago

"Rummy" is a long-time Bush family friend.

He'll never be fired.

What a silly question.

Sideshow_Bob 9 years ago

If this town can have two Wal-Marts, why can't we have an olive garden?

sunflower_sue 9 years ago

I don't think olives will grow in KS.

Thanks.

Suebob

sunflower_sue 9 years ago

Ha Ha! I'm Sue_Bob! Now I'm SHOEMAKER!

Sideshow_Bob 9 years ago

Walked into that one huh SueBob :)

enochville 9 years ago

Translation: "The Over/Super bob: The king of the Bobs"

Liberty 9 years ago

They would have to fire everyone, not just Mr. Rumsfeld. The downsizing/impeachment would have to go all the way down to the department of Agriculture till someone decent and half way honest could be President.

james bush 9 years ago

Rummy should get Bush to issue executive order prohibiting liberals from posting bad things about him in the LJW.

Sideshow_Bob 9 years ago

"Ah, the catwalk. The perfect vantage point...for revenge!" (sits down and opens a bag of chips) "Ah, kettle chips, the perfect side-dish...for revenge!"

RonBurgandy 9 years ago

I need some SHOEMAKER_BOB for entertainment. Someone summon him up.

I'm looking at you OMB.

ms_canada 9 years ago

It seems to me, liberty that honest president is a mis-nomer. You all had an honest president but only gave him one term. J.C. Prospector - I am still trying to figure out if you were using sarcasm. :o) And how did you know about the eagles on the river. We do have a pair of them and it is sheer delight to watch them soar on the thermals. Oh to be an eagle just for an hour.

Linda Aikins 9 years ago

I'm off to OOOOOOOOOO-klahoma where the wind comes drifting down the plains. But before I go, I'll see what I can do to help summon him:

SHOEMAKER SHOEMAKER SHOEMAKER

Hold down the fort for me. I'll be back Monday!

Gootsie_Bob

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

I must have been biosolids-faced when I voted for Bush (oh, but wait... Kerry was the other option... nevermind). One thing I've learned in my professional life is that incompetent workers are often the fault of their supervisors. Bush's support of Rumsfeld is a bigger issue than Rumsfeld himself.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

Enoch said "Colin Powell's military doctrine was that you go in with an overwhelming military force. Rumsfeld's doctrine was that you go in with just enough force to (in effect) lose."

I cannot agree with that. That's more like a Clinton approach (Black Hawk Down). We took out Saddam's forces almost as fast as our tanks would go. That "war" was a freakin drive-by shooting. We DID overwhelm them with forces, but where we failed (apart from the fact that there were no WMDs and therefore no need to be there) was in misjudging the cultural environment to which we were going. The idea that we would be greeted with open arms was only half correct: they were so glad to see us... for about 4 minutes. Iraq is a lot like the Balkans in that the dictatorship that ruled prior was abusive, but it kept the factions in line. Saddam was bad, but he was able to keep the Kurds/Sunis/ect. from going bonkers on each other. Being democratic people, we don't rule the people with the iron fist that they need right now. No matter WHAT we did from a military standpoint, we were going to create an environment conducive to civil war.

The only answer is: don't destablize the situation to begin with. Pandoras box needed to stay shut.

Fatty_McButterpants 9 years ago

Marion, aren't you going to bust out your alter-ego "plumberscrack" for this little debate??!

djazz 9 years ago

Why would the JW even ask a question like this in Bush hating, liberal left wing Lawrence? They already knew there wasn't enough room or time to read all the negative responses?

acg 9 years ago

I keep telling myself not to get involved in this discussion about Dubya and his band of merry morons but it's getting so hard to control myself....must....not....yell....at.....brainwashed republicans....who know not that they're stupid.....

sgtwolverine 9 years ago

That's why I got involved in the discussion about the multiplying bobs. It was so much more satisfying than any political discussion!

acg 9 years ago

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=ns-tos-news-h-06&idq=/ff/story/0002/20060420/1139719214.htm

You're so right sgt. Thank you for reminding me that it's a beautiful Friday and political discussion/argument is bad, mmmkaayyy? The above story is hysterical.

satchel 9 years ago

Liberal Lawrence probably loved this question. Rummy is the best, and has done more for this country than any liberal in the last 20 years.

Ceallach 9 years ago

J.C., ohhhh, you mean Jimmy Carter!! For a moment there ms_c, I thought you had the US confused with Jerusalem about 2000 years ago :)

enochville 9 years ago

OldEnuf2BYurDad: Before we launched the attack against Iraq, knowledgable generals and military stategists advised Rumsfeld that we would need many, many troops. Rumsfeld rejected that model and said what we need is a slimmer, more technologically advanced military. He decided that we only needed the number of troops that we eventually used to attack Iraq.

And you are right, we cut right through Saddam's army. What Rumsfeld ignored was that it takes many more troops to occupy a country than it does to successfully invade a country. (Playing a few rounds of the board game "Risk" can remind one of that fact. And that is not even dealing with real people.)

Why do you need so many trrops to occupy a country? To maintain order (so that theives don't rob museums and businesses) and to prevent organized insurgencies by the show of force. Although people hate being ruled by an occupying military force, they hate it worse when they are not kept safe. We never have had an overwhelming force in Iraq. We had just enough troops to slice through the Iraqi army to Baghdad, and no more. Technology is great, but it cannot substitute for soldiers when trying to occupy a conquered area.

You are right that our leaders screwed up when they assumed the whole country would welcome us with open arms. That is why one must not assume, especially when there is so much on the line; lives are at stake. And this particular outcome could have been avoided. Generals foresaw this possibility, that is why they recommended many more soldiers. But, bullheaded Rumsfeld ignored the wisdom gleaned from previous wars, struck out on his own and got us in this quagmire.

You said: "The only answer is: don't destablize the situation to begin with. Pandoras box needed to stay shut."

Hindsight is 20/20. But, don't be fooled by Rummy when he claims that no one could have foreseen this. But, let's not dwell on the past. Rumsfeld should be fired not for what he did do, but for what he is not doing presently. We must have overwhelming force and he certainly won't do it. Bush needs to let someone save his butt, and appoint someone that will get the job done.

ms_canada 9 years ago

riiiiiiiight ceallach - dear Jimmy Carter. Old Enuf2byurdad - you have the right idea there. I believe it is the arrogance and ignorance of the present administration of the US that is the big stumbling block here. Not enough knowledge of the mind set of the Mid-eastern people was the big upset in the invasion of their country. To think that they would just embrace democracy at the snap of a finger was a monumental error in thinking. To the middle eastern mind democracy stands for major crime, illicit sex, vulgarity, half naked women, or maybe 3/4 naked women now-a-days, pornographic films, undisciplined children and greed. If we in the west want to sell our way of life, we had better clean it up a great deal first.

enochville 9 years ago

acg: I can't believe the women actually let him in.

I am starting a new campaign: "Just Say No to All Solicitors".

If you get an email from your bank asking for your account number, if you get a door to door doctor offering a free breast exam, if you get a phone call from anyone you don't know wanting to take your credit card info as a payment for something they just offered you,

JUST SAY NO!

If you are interested in the offer and want to find out if it is for real, call the bank, hospital, or company yourself and find out if the offer is for real.

What's more? You won't feel pressured into getting something you don't want if you make it as your policy to just say no to solicitors.

ms_canada 9 years ago

To the mid eastern mind the blame is squarely on the shoulders of the President and since you can't get rid of him so easily, at least agitate for the removal of the arrogant iigit Rumsfeldt. That may appease the insurgents somewhat. And also get on with the job of fixing the mess that the infrastructure of Iraq is in. Instead of large military bases, how about fixing the roads and electrical supply and clean water etc. etc. etc. Right on enochville.

Ceallach 9 years ago

The mindset of the people was woefully Westernized! However, don't forget that we had many troubled times after 1776, and a civil war of our own within the first century. Freedom is neither easily obtained nor cheaply bought.

rhd99 9 years ago

BYE BYE, RUMMY! As someone who understands military politics, let me count the ways that Rumsfeld put his "career" at DOD in jeopardy in this administration: 1. He & financial DUD Paul Wolfowitz lambasted General Eric Shinseki for troop estimates that we all know now was correct. Wolfowitz in charge of the WORLD BANK?! HAHAHA! What a laugh! 2. Rummy keeps William S. Wallace, who commanded the initial ground attack in Iraq, & was lambasted by Rummy for saying that we underestimated the enemy. Now, Rumsfeld puts General Wallace in charge of Army Training & Education. I trust General Wallace, but I question the wisdom of Rumsfeld promoting someone who he himself questioned. 3. Where the heck did Rummy get the idea that a retired General could be an effective Army Chief of Staff? Were the active army generals not good enough for him?! 4. Rummy continually fails to fill critical command slots when top commanders are reassigned or retire. Again, the Army Chief of Staff slot was vacant for several months in 2003. Why? Rummy is a piss-poor manager of personnel affairs. 5. WHERE IS BIN LADEN?! Five years later, Rummy & company still don't know where this SOB is after we were attacked! 6. This is a follow-up to number 5, whereas, Rummy claiming a monopoly on intelligence matters is so far-fetched, it's a wonder Negropante wanted the job in the first place. Need I say more?! RUMMY, GET LOST!

beatrice 9 years ago

Ceal: "Freedom is neither easily obtained nor cheaply bought." First off -- Hello! Next, freedom is only obtainable when the people are fighting for it themselves. It is impossible to thrust freedom onto people, which seems to be what we are doing in Iraq. That is why they are fighting each. They are just trying to determine who will be their next ruler. Plus now Iran is saying they have nukes. Yikes!

For the conservatives out there who keep talking about President Clinton and his misdeeds -- You are doing your country a disservice by refusing to look at the present situation. We need to fix the problems of today, and I suspect we will see a more balanced government as a result come the next round of elections. Having the Republicans in control of everything is ruining this country -- out of control spending, un-successful war, war profiteering, croniism, record deficits, tax cuts for the wealthiest of the wealthy, the President leaking names of undercover agents for his own political gain, ... just as long as we keep them gays from marrying.

We need change. I just hope that the next President, whether it is McCain or Clinton or whomever, can help bring the country out of the current us/them, liberal/conservative, for us or against us mentality. We need to be Americans first.

Now I'm going to go buy my own Klondike bar! I am not a puppet meant to earn treats for your simple amusement!

rhd99 9 years ago

By the way, #7 I forgot to submit is ABU GRAHIB!

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

Ms. Canada:

Right after the liberation of Bagdad (days later), one of the first signs of their liberation was the opening of a porn theater. That's the double-edge of democracy and freedom, that it really does let you do what you want to do. I think that is a major issue to someone in a theocratic culture.

acg 9 years ago

You know, for a homeless, one-legged stoner, with no money, job, prospects, or the obvious, a second leg, he sure has a good attitude. I like that about a person.

enochville 9 years ago

That was hilarious, TOB! Thanks for sharing.

Drew_Carey 9 years ago

100 pts for Jena! And 25 more for being the poster girl for zoom teeth whitening. Well worth the money.

10 pts for Sideshow Bob just for the name. (Does he realize he'll be called SSBob? That's kinda creepy)

Sue.. if you get up and wash that stuff off, you don't have to watch it dry. But 25 pts for the humor. 25 more for telling us about the Bambi Raptor...love those woodland creatures.

R_I..They put the OTS question up even earlier often, but you can't post until they're darn good and ready, seems they like to get the pics on, and the rest of the people on there bit by bit. The obits and some articles for the next day are often online very early. 5 pts for wanting to jump into the fray early. Good man!

Ron..you're just killing me 100 pts

Grundoon Luna 9 years ago

Ms. C, I love you! Thank you for recognizing the wonderful Jimmy who, to be sure, history will be much kinder to than the boob who is the current resident at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, in WDC.

Rummy, and the entire outfit he's with has got to go. Those that support him lose credibility with each and every supporting comment they put forth because in doing so only demonstrates their denial over COMPETE FAILURE OF THIS ADMINISTRATION. Elvis H. Presely!! Are you bline? Asleep? WAKE UP!!!

Homeless people with badges. Complete with flair for their lanyards? The Nazi's had flair. They made the Jews wear it.

Signed, Azure_Bob

Grundoon Luna 9 years ago

Did I forget how to type? Sheesh.

bearded_gnome 9 years ago

posted on the biosolids spill thread:

Posted by bearded_gnome ( anonymous) on April 21, 2006 at 3:05 p.m. ( Suggest removal)

ya' know, they've been proposing a roundabout for 13th and haskell...maybe this is the new traffic constipating device?


also, anybody note this occurs on the same morning our c city signs its deal with Wal-Mart? walmartion: "I drove in the way you said, whew, what's that stinky crap on the road?"

lawrence negotiator: "stinky crap, stinky crap we must call biosolids." Walmartian: "yuck. well...on to our business, we're going to force you to see things our way or else you're going to have to pay up." negotiator: "Oh, okay, we agree. its just we're building a new waste water treatment plant, and we'll be looking for a site for an associated biosolids plant, which occassionaly has leaky trucks leaving it..." negotiator: "uh, now, we were thinking of placing it next door to your planned new joint, unless you give us more favorable terms...bwhahahaha bwhahaha bwhahahahahaha!" [biosolids truck just happens to drive by the window where they're negotiating] Walmartian: [coughing, sputtering... "Oh, sure, we'll see it your way, we don't want to get Wal-Mart into deep dodo..."

Posted by bearded_gnome ( anonymous) on April 21, 2006 at 3:08 p.m. ( Suggest removal)

should read: "deep doodoo". and funny, ljreader and I same time, tie to Wal-Mart...must be true and we have the revelation!

Post a comment

thanks, gnome

bearded_gnome 9 years ago

ots question answer: NO. stop worrying about what a few malcontent retired generals spew, mostly driven by political ambition. at least one had a different story when wasn't retired. . .

Drew_Carey 9 years ago

acg..100 more points for sharing that today.Like the bob craze, I wonder how many old men will now go out and see if they can cop a door to door feel?

And thanks for making me laugh at loud at 2 am this morning, remembering the dress up jesus.

I'd sign off as Drew_Bob, but that just sounds too out on the farm.Next I'll be yodeling.For a Klondike bar, in bed.

Drew_Carey 9 years ago

500 pts to bearded_gnome_bob for taking the Walmart post where it should go.

sunflower_sue 9 years ago

Glad I'm not the only "idiot" who thinks Jimmy Carter is a great man. He was just too darn honest to do the job assigned him. I love that peanut farmer from Georgia. I think his tractor's sexy!

Sue_Bob

sunflower_sue 9 years ago

Drew, Thanks for the honerable mention 25 pts :o)

Ceallach 9 years ago

Hello, bea! I did not mean to imply that the Iraqi people were not ultimately responsible for their own destiny. I think it would be another big mistake to assume that they will establish a "little America." There is more than one way to set up a government that values individual rights and provides protection for their citizens (even the women:).

I was just pointing out that the US did not accomplish a constitutional government without help from other countries. Our founders incorporated political philosophies and historically established facets of other governments into a formula they felt would fit our society. It was not quick and neither will it be quick to determine the government best suited to protect and serve the citizens of Iraq (even the women!).

Liberty 9 years ago

Jimmy Carter was not known by anyone until the media blitz started to introduce him to the public. He basically came from nowhere. He was being groomed by the "Bilderburgs" at numerous meetings and was a member of the Tri-lateral Commission. These are known elite globalist groups that tailor and prepare the presidential candidates that they want you to vote for so they can control who is in office in the United States. That way, whether you vote for a Republican or a Democrat, you will vote one of their "boys" in. Just look at the last election: Bush a skull and bones member, or John Kerry who was also a skull and bones member. These candidates are often connected with the Tri-lateral Commission and or the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations). All globalist elitist groups.

http://www.cfr.org

Staci Dark Simpson 9 years ago

Thanks TOB. I was wondering about foot guy. My hubby works across the street from where he used to live and I always look up on the porch to see if the bucket o foot is still there.

beatrice 9 years ago

Hey there bearded. Just like to point out that the push to keep Rumsfeld is also politically motivated.

ms_canada 9 years ago

Yes - Jimmy Carter is a fine human being. If you notice, I did not say he was a great or even good president, I said he was an honest president. Who knows what he would have done given a second term. But then again look at what he has done post presidency. He is a super great humanitarian and is well respected the world over. I wonder if the same will be said of GWB post presidency. Ceallach - wise of you to call to our memories the struggle that ensued to bring about democracy in these United States of America. Canada did not have such a struggle because we did not sever ties to the Empire. But we did have some struggles. Please don't fault me for my criticism of your government. It is a great feature of a democracy that we can criticise with impunity. and I do also criticise my own government for it's many faults. Someone mentioned theocracy above in this thread. I must look up a moment ..... oh yes, it was old enuf who mentioned theocracy. My understanding of theocracy or theocratic governance is one with God as the head. In other words an administration that follows and does the will of God. I don't think that can be said of the government of Saddam Hussein in Iraq or any other Islamic country. Allah or God would never sanction some of the stuff that they are doing. Now ask yourself, would God sanction some of the stuff that the US administration is doing?

Grundoon Luna 9 years ago

Jimmy Carter is a great man and diplomat, he wasn't a great president, however, was not handed a Ferrari that he promptly ran in to a tree. He got a Pinto that was about to be rear ended. So he couldn't cure the economy in 4 years. Reagan didn't do it in 8, neither did GHWB, but neocons sure won't give Clinton any credit for building the economy, and don't want to blame Dubbya for throwing it all down the crapper. Carter said so himself that his finest work was not done in the White House, but some great work he has done outside it. Jimmy made some mistakes, and shew-w-e-e-e that Billy was something else. The relinquishing of control of the Panamal Canal was done poorly and some boys in a helicopter got killed in a dessert, but how many boys has GW got killed in the dessert? (and don't tell me that Regean saved the hostages because we know about the medling there) Bush certainly doesn't have any greater domestic policy accuemen that Carter and I wonder what kind of humanitarian endeavors Shrub will undertake when he leaves office? The better human being is definitely Carter, and if you want to take a pick of lousy presidents, the boy in charge now wins the contest between the two here. Hands down!

ms_canada 9 years ago

howard_b - no I don't agree that J. Carter was a lousy president. He might not have been the best. I am wondering just who you would site as the best president in your lifetime, without knowing how old you are. As to my age, the first president that I remember was Pres. F.D.R. and all who came after him. I think that each one had good points and bad points. Pres. Clinton was not a nice man, morally, but he did do some good things for the economy of your country without getting a whole lot of people killed. It takes a very strong person and an intelligent person to be a leader. One thing though, I believe that too much, far too much credit for good or bad is given to one man, the Pres. He is not the whole government. GWB is a very stubborn man and not a strong man. A truly strong man would be able to admit mistakes and Donald Rumsveldt is definitely a mistake. That is my last word on the subject. Azure Attitude had some very good things to say.

horrific_changeling 9 years ago

Hey!

Macon was doing SHOEMAKER over on the Walmart board!

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