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Do you think surveillance cameras will deter campus crime?

Asked at Hastings, 1900 W. 23rd St. on July 22, 2005

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Photo of Demetrius Early

“I would say that it would. Usually, if it’s known that the area is being watched, it will deter crime.”

Photo of Erica Fishel

“I don’t know if it’s going to deter crime per se, but it will help them prosecute perpetrators.”

Photo of Kayleia Workman

“I think it will. I’ve heard that they’ve really tried to down on non-members in residence halls, so it should help a lot.”

Photo of Shaw Phillips

“Probably not. There is still a lot of petty crime that can go on without knowing who has done it.”

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Comments

tell_it_like_it_is 10 years ago

I dunno. They might help a little but they don't seem to deter much crime in other places like convenience stores. Hopefully no poop throwing people today I have a whole pile of work to do. Happy Friday folks!

redbird 10 years ago

First thing to mind....College girls and guys gone wild...the police could sell videos online for extra money. All kidding aside,I've seen a few of the places that the cameras have been placed and well they could of been placed in more important areas.....it seems the safety of the buildings is more important than that of the people and/or their safety!!!!

GreenEyedBlues 10 years ago

EXTREME! ACK! It's 2am and already this board has hit the gutters before the rest of the crew wakes up! How fun! One less job for that poop-flinger kid from yesterday.

I think it's really scary some nights on campus. Anyone could be lurking in the many bushes! LMAO

Thank God I'm not a dorm rat! That's the unsafest place to be, what with entrusting all of your goods to a roommate selected out of a hat who only has minimal loyalty to you for a semester at most.

Not to mention all of the untidiness! Being in a campus dorm is no excuse to live in squallor.

chevygal 10 years ago

woohoo!!! shaw!!! ohh baby....still in cali folks but im first on here!...

Hong_Kong_Phooey 10 years ago

I think the cameras will help. I also think it will help that the KU cops seem to have some new guys working there and they seem to be "bustin' heads" and taking people to jail all the time.

italianprincess 10 years ago

TGIF to all of you this morning!!!!!!!!!!

Cameras may help with a bit of crime, but I do wish the young ladies who think they are safe wouldn't walk around at night by themselves. Remember last school year with all of the rapes there where.

Ladies,

Please try to remember that you are not super heroes. DON'T walk home late at night from bars try to get a ride with a friend or call a taxi. DON"T go jogging or walking at night alone, take a friend or two with you. Think about taking a self defense course, try karate or even tae kwon-do even. PROTECT yourselves from being attacked or at least have the knowledge to beat the @%&$ out of the person. It saddens me to read about what happen to you because you didn't use your brain. You are not invincible ladies, so please be careful and think before you act.

Have a great Friday everyone, a wonderful weekend and try to stay as cool as you can. Its going to be another scorcher out there today.

neopolss 10 years ago

Oh sure. Cameras work great in deterring crime. Just look at all the Kwik shop robberies that no longer happen. Just look at all the banks that don't get robbed. Oh Oh!!! How about all of the shoplifting that no longer occurs?

please remove all words in asteriks

how about some HOT COFFEE i_tching? Let's talk about that folks? Grand Theft Auto is being pulled from shelves? Utterly silly (and we're not talking cows here). GAMES ARE NOT JUST FOR 3-5 YEAR OLD KIDS ANYMORE! Why can't the media, and Hilary, and Liebermann, get that through their skulls? This game is mature rated! You know what that means? 17 or older to play! So now the game gets pulled to slap an adult only rating on it, and since most retailers refuse to carry adult only games, that's the end of it.

A bit hypocritical don't you think? Plenty of retailers carry R rated and even "unrated" versions of movies, but no one blinks an eye at these "adult only" items being sold to those younger than 18. It's definately a double standard. Sure, the game is violent and involves car jacking, killing, crime sprees, and gangs, but throw in simulated dry humping, and it's "oh my GOD!!!" What values we have.

I'm getting tired of senators blaming videogames for society's ills. They tried it years ago with movies, TV, music, and now games. I'm tired of them thinking games are for little kids. I'm tired of parents not being held responsible. I'm tired of groups controlling things they know nothing about.

Comments?

acg 10 years ago

IP, I agree with everything you just said there and that's the saddest part of all (not agreeing with you, but that it had to be said). I moved to KS in 1988 and would've never been afraid to walk in any part of this city at night alone. Not even over by Edgewood and when I first moved here that was supposed to be the "bad" part of town. Lawrence isn't the safe little city I moved to anymore. That's a damned shame.

Dixie Jones 10 years ago

oh come on , you all know as well as i know that if theres a camera they are going to be little darlings (in front of the camera ) i say install cameras but dont tell them where they are...and to the gal whos in cali still the first post ,,,um i have to agree ,,mmmm shaw....i log in here everyday just to get a laugh at the things you ppl say in here,,,

happyone 10 years ago

Good Morning All :)

Camara's will not stop them, just make them sneakier! It will make it easier to prosecute them afterwards though.

Happy Anniversary a day late Sun_Sue 15 yrs is awesome We just celebrated ours in June.

chrys anthalbee 10 years ago

neopolss: i agree with what your saying. i just wanted to point out that the reason that GTA was pulled is more than "simulated dry humping". apparently there is a mod/cheat that you can use to have x-rated scenes appear.

as to the cameras i agree it won't deter crime, just make it easier to prosecute when it's caught on tape.

a lot of the comments here are making me think of a blog post i've been writing. i wonder how safe lawrence really is. it seems it's easy to be lulled into a false sense of security.

willa 10 years ago

If KU wants to increase safey, they should consider more lights, not cameras. I've heard that cameras don't film very effectively in total darkness anyway.

craigers 10 years ago

The cameras could help some, but I would have echo what Das said, the criminals will just have to be sneakier. There are cameras everywhere nowadays and we still have crime problems. We should replace all criminals with good behaved robots, then we would be safer!

happyone 10 years ago

chrysanthalbee-- if your doing a blog on how safe lawrence is make sure to let people know how many registered sexual predators we REALLY have in Lawrence. Its kinda scary

happyone 10 years ago

chrysanthalbee-- here is the link to the website so you have acurate numbers https://www.accesskansas.org/ssrv-registered-offender/index.do?by=city

happyone 10 years ago

now o_m_b we already know your "hot" you don't have to change your name ;)

(can't...................stop.................laughing)

linux_chick 10 years ago

I think cameras are a great idea. They've been in the works for a long time and it seemed they'd never get installed fast enough. Hopefully, it'll deter some drunked stupidness.

My coworker called KUPD once on campus, and they showed up inside of 3-4 minutes. That's been my only experience, but I was impressed.

Das_U. Yeah, I had Mr. Highfill sophomore year for C.P. Biology. Do we know eachother??

linux_chick 10 years ago

willa: where is campus dimly lit? Everywhere I go is well-lit and has the lights/rape phones.

Anyway, agreed. Lights would be a good idea as well if some areas are shady.

chrys anthalbee 10 years ago

happyone: i found the site and it looks like as of 7/15/05 there were 47. some records seem to be duplicates but there's still a lot. thanx for the tip.

Liberty 10 years ago

A camera is probably desired by the criminals. They like the attention, as they are so bold and think they won't ever be caught or they wouldn't do it in the first place.

The real deterant is to return to God. It changes peoples hearts to not desire to do evil because they respect God and know that He is watching what we do. KU has had an atmosphere of anti-God (so what is left but to act like an animal?) and they are reaping the results of it with higher crime. It also encourages police state types to move in and suggest fixes like cameras to fix crime and more and more police, when we know it won't help. It just violates everyones enjoyment of a nice place that the people used to enjoy.

neopolss 10 years ago

Posted by chrysanthalbee on July 22 at 8:48 a.m. neopolss: i agree with what your saying. i just wanted to point out that the reason that GTA was pulled is more than "simulated dry humping". apparently there is a mod/cheat that you can use to have x-rated scenes appear.

==========================================

Actually the main character is still fully clothed. It's quite lame really, and not really the point I was striving at. It's overhyped by a group of morons who do not know what they are talking about. The highly selling game "The Sims" contains more nudity and sexual activities that anything in Grand Theft Auto, but not one complaint has been mentioned about it. It's more of a name thing. People know the controversy behind Grand Theft Auto and it is an easy target. We're still talking about parental responsibility though.

happyone 10 years ago

Glad to be of help Chrysanthalbee :)

average 10 years ago

Yeah, the "registered sex criminal site is always up for a hoot".

There are some in Lawrence like this, but for funny, check out Robbie here in Great Bend.

http://koufax.kgs.ku.edu/kbi/kbi.cfm?id=SOP04716

One week past 14 years old when registered, for indecent solicitation of someone under the age of 16. WTF?? Of course he's propositioning someone under the age of 16. But, Robbie, 30 years from now will still be registering himself when he moves, and will probably be discriminated against by every job interviewer with access to Google.

willa 10 years ago

linux, I was thinking of the area around the chancellor's house, really. If you walk along those walkways early in the morning, like I used to when I was a GTA there, it could be pretty dark. There's one light for the entire walkway. I'm not given to paranoia, but there were some mornings I felt pretty iffy going to my office.

Fangorn 10 years ago

I suppose it would depend on where the cameras are placed and how certain potential criminals are that they are being watched. I think cameras may be more useful for presecuting crimes already committed than for preventing crime. I believe someone else already made this point.

OMB, violent crime has seen a sharp rise in the UK because the most of the law-abiding have been completely disarmed. Usually it's only the criminals who have firearms now. One Briton, Tony Martin, was actually jailed for defending his rural home from intruders. This was after he had already been burgerized two dozen times! The punk he killed had already been arrested multiple times for 29 offenses, including twice for assaulting police officers. The punk's accomplices had a total of 87(!) court appearances between them. That tells you the fine job British "law enforcement" is doing protecting the people. In sentencing Mr. Martin, the government asserted that "burglars are members of the public who must be protected from violent householders." With the government protecting them, the UK is becoming a criminal's playground.

raven 10 years ago

I think that cameras will deter some crime on campus. There are even areas on Jayhawk Blvd. that are not well lit and in the dark can be pretty scary. Definately more lights would be a better first step.

GTA-I am not a fan of this game, I have never played it myself but have seen it played by others. I personally think that a game of this nature should not be sold. Beating people and stealing their cars, is really not entertaining to me. Also, even if it has a rating kids will get their hands on it. Children should not be exposed to that material. I know, I know everyone will cry "parental responsibility" and I agree with that-but there will always be irresponsible parents or parents who cannot always keep an eye on their kids. Lets face it!

linux_chick 10 years ago

on this gun debate, since no one is speaking up for the other side so far...

A government outlawing guns is asserting the message that "civilians are not allowed to take the law into their own hands." As much as we'd like to think most individuals who purchase guns are doing so for their own protection, this is far and away not the case.

Here's an ad from a "don't-trample-my-civil-liberties-by-taking-away-my-gun" site: http://triggerfinger.org/images/keyboard23fp.jpg

Bob and Jane from down the street aren't buying a thing like that to "protect" their kids. And do we really want every suburban couple to be packing one of these in the house?

TF: The above said, it is really a mockery of the system what is happening to the individual you posted about. Admitedly, I'm not familiar with that case. It sounds terrible.

linux_chick 10 years ago

One correction: I should premise what I stated above by saying "As far as I understand most individuals..."

I've read enough to have an opinion, but I'm not trying to come across as if I think I'm an expert.

Confrontation 10 years ago

What if Bobby is just starting early, like the man who kidnapped the kids in Idaho? Maybe Bobby's parents should be posted on a site called "Idiot parents who don't teach their kids anything."

sunflower_sue 10 years ago

Happy...thanks! and congrats to you also. Looks like a few of us are celebrating 15 this year...interesting.

Video surveillance: Won't work because they can never get cameras that take good enough pictures. Sure, it would help in determining that a crime has been committed, but not WHO the perp was. How many times have you watched the news (i.e. tabloid TV) and said to yourself: "Why on earth can't they get a better picture of that person?".

Extreme, could you (or someone else) please post a current listing of all of our accepted acronyms. I'm feeling sluggish today and sometimes YDP talk too fast for me. Thanks in advance. :0)

Fangorn 10 years ago

T_F: Good Lord! That photo actually lookes like Michael Jackson after just another 2 or 3 surgeries. Yikes!

OMB: I wonder if they'll outlaw cricket bats?

Linux_chick: The police cannot be everywhere at once. Thus, some find it prudent to be prepared to defend themselves. Most firearms used to deter crimes are not discharged, merely brandished. That was a humorous ad you linked. However, Michael Isikoff has killed more people using the device on the right (with his fake Quron abuse story in Newsweek) than the law-abiding have with the AK-47 on the left. Automatic weapons (liek the AK-47) are already outlawed. And as long as every suburban couple practices gun safety (know your target and what's behind it, etc.) and teaches their children that firearms aren't toys, I wouldn't care how they choose to arm themselves. [btw, I appreciate you representing "the other side" without calling this side "extremist" and also without being one yourself.]

blnde84 10 years ago

I am not sure if the cameras would be of much use to deter crime. I live in the dorms so hopefully it would deter the vandalism done by those who are intoxicated. I am completely for the increase in lighting. Walking down by Anschutz, Malott, and Summerfield is incredibly dark and there are many night labs.

Fangorn 10 years ago

Question: How does "YDP" mean "you people"? Where'd the "D" come from?

Tom_FooIery: Why did you change your name (l to I). And why have all your previous posts been not just deleted but completely dropped down the Memory Hole?! Did you threaten the overthrow of the LJW editorial staff?

Also, in looking back searching for T_F's missing posts, I noticed a couple other things:

Gootsie: I think I like "FRAN NOG" best. That was too funny!

Beatrice: I am absolutely thrilled that someone else understands the difference between Trekker/Trekkie. I know I'm a "nerd" for saying it, but I don't care. What was your favorite series?

Fangorn 10 years ago

"(l to I)" is actually a lower-case "L" to an upper-case "I". The font doesn't show this very well. Doesn't show it at all, actually.

happyone 10 years ago

I thought YDP was for you dumb people but a list would be nice

happyone 10 years ago

IMO I think that in order to own a gun of any nature you should have to take a "hunter's Saftey" course first. as well as every one in the household... Don't get me wrong I love guns and think the anti-gun rhetoric is BS. Its not the guns fault people get hurt or die its the PERSON holding the gun

missmagoo 10 years ago

so if you're in the lied center parking lot and being held at knifepoint, what's the point of the blue emergency phone?

cameras are overdue..maybe it won't 'deter' crime but it may at least help catch those responsible for committing the crime

Liberty 10 years ago

The right of self defense will deter crime. It is enumerated in the 2nd amendment. (We recognize rights enumerated in the Constitution given by God, not civil liberties which are PRIVILEGES given to US Citizens based in Washington DC which are controlled by Congress and their lawyers and their democracy). Self defense works against "out of control" criminals.

The police are useful to report a crime after it has occurred, but not much use on prevention as we know that they can not be everywhere at the same time. The police have no legal responsiblity to protect you from anything from what I understand. You have the responsiblity to protect yourself in this crime environment that has been created in this country by Congress' democracy over US Citizens (in Washington DC) and the rejection and exclusion of God from society.

Take this test: Do you feel safer when a police car pulls up to you or passes by you?

Maybe, but generally I don't any more. Because the laws are now geared to allow the police to feed on the population for revenue collection instead of help protect and defend our God given rights, which is the main duty of real government. (Peace officers)

happyone 10 years ago

e_m sometimes when reading post I miss decode and it can be pretty humorus :)

sunflower_sue 10 years ago

Fangorn, I liked Ann Frog the best! YDP make me LOL! TTFN (to quote Tigger)

TGIF!

happyone 10 years ago

Here's one we should use YAOTM

LOL

happyone 10 years ago

e_m thats a really good site I am still laughing at some of them I think I found a new Favorite YOMMFSWGAS (You've Obviously Mistaken Me For Someone Who Gives A Sh*t)

linux_chick 10 years ago

Fanghorn: I'm suggesting that maybe we should be focusing on pressuring the police department to do a better job protecting their citizens rather than letting everyone who wants to buy a gun.

People should have the right to defend themselves, but I think we all agree that there should be a line distinguishing how much power we allow citizens to have in this respect. We don't allow people to purchase nuclear weapons to protect ourselves incase our government drops the ball politically. This is an extreme example I'm mentioning to point out that most of us agree that the idea of "protecting ourselves" should have limitations. We're only debating about where to draw that line.

On the extremist comment. I think we're all on the same side: trying to keep each other as safe as possible. Just discussing which route is the best way to get there. By the same token, thanks for not jumping down my throat for endorsing another point of view.

beatrice 10 years ago

Fangorn: The original is still the best -- cheesy props and cheesier sets, over-the-top liberal/socialist themes (Frank Gorshin as Bele in the black/white - white/black episode!), the borrowing of story lines from classic sf writers, the fact that people generally spoke english on distant planets, and Kirk in a girdle. It is just couldn't be topped.

Now, as far as guns go -- there should be some greater control on their distribution. If we must have them, then there should be training involved.

Liberty: Which God? Zeus? Haven't more people been killed in the name of God than for any other reason?

Fangorn 10 years ago

Linux_chick: I'd rather discuss than throw stones. It was just so refreshing to see someone willing to discuss this issue. It's rather sensitive to many and tends to draw impassioned responses from both sides. I agree that, like a lot of issues, the really productive discussion is about where to draw the line. I understand your hyperbole about nuclear weapons. After a break-in a few years ago, I protected my home with security lights, not land mines. (A "bouncing betty" would forestall any burglary attempts but would also make mowing the lawn a hazardous duty!) I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

Beatrice: I remember that episode. "Just look at him! He's hideous!" They did tackle many social issues. Kirk and Uhura shared the first interracial kiss shown on TV. Of course, considering all the aliens Kirk had ahem! interacted with, merely kissing another human with darker pigmentation should have been no big deal. Remember the Gorn in TOS? That had to be the cheesiest creature of the entire series (and that's saying something). A Gorn appeared in the last season of Enterprise also, no longer cheesy I'm afraid. My favorite series was DS9. It was slow moving at times, but I loved all the political intrigue. Avery Brooks was a great captain, and the Defiant was a great ship. A Federation ship with a cloaking device!

happyone 10 years ago

Although I personally do not own a gun I grew up with them in the house (always under lock and key of course). Safety and education are the key to responsible gun ownership. Leaving a hand gun on the top self of the closet is insanity. Personally I think every one should own a BIG DOG like I do. No one in their right mind would attempt to steal from my house, let alone do anything to me or my family without the dog going off.

Liberty 10 years ago

Linux,

I know that you mean well by your view point and I understand that you want to depend on bigger and bigger government/police to fix the problem that they created because it is so easy to just let someone else do it for us.

We must look at the protection issue from reality, not what we wish someone would just do for us.

The police do not have a legal responsiblity to protect you, so no amount of pressure will cause them to do that or make them capable of doing it (they would have to be everywhere at the same time to protect you and everyone else, otherwise you could sue them for non performance). You have the responsiblity to protect yourself. It is also assumed in our country that the people are fully informed about all of our laws and that you have full knowledge of ALL of them. (Ignorance of the law is no excuse...). The Government uses this ignorance against you for over 140 years now to their advantage by using the war powers clause in the Constituton during the civil war. (Without telling you because you are already assumed to be fully informed).

Government has the responsibilty to protect the States from foreign invasions and protect your God given rights. But you have the responsiblity to protect yourself. Therefore the second amendment enumerates the God given right of self defense equal to the military power.

Beatrice: The God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. The almighty God that made it possible to create this nation in 1776. The one that will judge the world for their sins and for rejecting His Son (Jesus the Christ) who died for you on the cross taking your punishment for sin and giving you His righteousness instead so you can be justified in His court and accounted worthy of His inheritance which is the earth and all of creation.

Ceallach 10 years ago

Installing more cameras seems to make some KU admins feel safer. No amount of cameras or police officers will ever provide total safety for all people. It seems that many of our students and staff have an entitlement attitude that is not serving them or the community very well. I have a right to be able to walk the streets and expect to be safe no matter what time it is, what I choose to wear, or whether or not I am of sound mind due to self-imposed sleep deprivation or alcohol/drug consumption. People need to wake up!! It will never be that safe!!

IP made very good points in her 7:21 post. Women, in particular, will continue to pay the consequences if they do not develop a more defensive mentality when moving about in today's world.

Do we need more cameras? Maybe, who knows for sure? Maybe they think cameras to prevent 4 incidents over how long a period (?) are more important than the good that quarter of a million dollars could do for other KU programs.

happyone 10 years ago

Another reason we should be allowed to have guns is probably the obvious...If they outlaw gun ownership the criminals will still have them!!! Look at how many they have already outlawed and look at how many criminals still have those guns.

Responsible gun owners are not the ones out there causing the problem ITS the criminals. So as a very wise man said "You can have my gun when you pry my cold dead hands from around it!"

captain_poindexter 10 years ago

two cheers for freedom of speech across the pond:

Cleric in England: "I would like to see the Islamic flag fly, not only over number 10 Downing Street, but over the whole world."

errrrrr, rrrright..

happyone 10 years ago

Capt- we had the cameras on guns debate a while back check out the link http://www2.ljworld.com/onthestreet/2005/jun/06/hunt/

happyone 10 years ago

Das you have a point there fortunately my dog has a large yard and plenty of training he's a big lush truth be told but he's not fond of strangers

captain_poindexter 10 years ago

the smaller the.....what? I don't understand, please elaborate.

happyone 10 years ago

e_m thats too funny ;)

capt you have issues man!!

Hong_Kong_Phooey 10 years ago

Liberty...how often does your nutball militia meet??

First off - KU hasn't descended into some type of godless, crime-laden cesspool. There's been about 4 serious crimes on the campus in about two years. You can get more than that in one weekend over on Redbud Lane. Let's not go cryin' out that it's because of the atheist heathens on the hill.

Second, the police have a duty to help those in need. Just because you're one of those nutball militia members who constantly barfs out stuff about "common law" and the police being "revenue collectors", it doesn't mean that everybody gets nervous when they drive by.

Fangorn - the Brady Bill was allowed to expire. You can buy automatic weapons again. In fact, I was just saying to myself the other day, "Self...you need to get an M-60 because that's JUST what the Constitution was talking about!" Right Liberty?

On a sidenote, Liberty, I would love to see if you can give an answer to anything that somehow does not relate back to "common law" or "finding Jesus" (was he lost??).

captain_poindexter 10 years ago

I don't think the Constitution was talking about blogs or posts like this one, but we still do it, don't we Phooey? weak argument.

happyone 10 years ago

I would love to see just one post from Liberty not mentioning religious beliefs and/or her miltia

happyone 10 years ago

refering to your Posted by captain_poindexter on July 22 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

the smaller the.....what? I don't understand, please elaborate.

BTW I'm still laughing :)

happyone 10 years ago

Tom -- Why the change in your name you never answered earlier when asked

happyone 10 years ago

Tom we wouldn't want that to happen now would we :)

Jayhawk226 10 years ago

Cities like Chicago have been using these cameras on designated "crime spots" and we have found that crime is going down. We are at a murder rate lower than decades...and less shootings as well.

Illinois has also set up cameras in construction zones to deter speeders. We have had a large number of construction workers hit by vehicles and killed. The state law now tickets a minimum fine of $300-400 dollars for speeding and if you hit a constrution worker, you're looking at a $15,000 fine and 10 years in prison. The Illinois State Police has said the cameras used to mail tickets to speeders is now finally becoming known and drivers are finally getting the hint to slow down.

It's scary to think Big Brother is watching everywhere...but it does detract crime. Of course others will always find a way to commit their crime...but there is no doubt a camera presence clearly does have an impact, regardless of how large or small.

lunacydetector 10 years ago

cameras will make the criminals paranoid.

by all means, put them up everywhere (except at the traffic lights - since those kind of cameras are owned by the camera company who inturn pockets the fines).

Jayhawk226 10 years ago

eh, pick away....if they wanna watch.....f*@( 'em

Fangorn 10 years ago

HKP: As one_more_bob pointed out, the ban that expired last year dealt with "assault rifles", a term that was never actually defined. The ban focused on cosmetic features of certain weapons (pistol grip, bayonet lugs, placement of magazine, etc.). Other weapons with the exact same function as some of the banned "assault" rifles were unaffected. Laws dealing with the function of the weapon were not addressed by the ban. In other words, the expiration of the ban did not affect the sale or availability of automatic weapons, which are illegal in most (thank you, OMB, for the correction eariler) states.

The Second Amendmend gives teeth to all the others. I fully subscibe to the view that "Armed men [and women, too!] are citizens, unarmed men merely subjects." And quite a number of the Founding Fathers also held this view. In the opinion of some of them, and as a matter of law in some of the first thirteen states, the "militia" consisted of all able-bodies males capable of bearing arms. Switzerland still proscibes to this view, and you'll note Hitler didn't bother trying to invade them.

Fangorn 10 years ago

Sorry, I forgot to answer what was really the most important question you answered, HKP. It isn't Jesus that was lost. We are. Every last one of us is separated from God by sin. "For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Luke 19:10. Well... you did ask.

Jayhawk226 10 years ago

I wonder if we can catch Jesus, God or the Son of Man on one of these cameras trying to save the criminals from sin...

...I may actually be a believer if I see him on cam smiling.

beatrice 10 years ago

Liberty: Which gun would Jesus own?

Liberty 10 years ago

HKP, Happyone,

If you are a male, between the age of 21 and 45, you are the militia. When you demonize the militia, you most likely are being critical of yourself if you are in that age group. After age 45, it is voluntary.

This is article 8 in the Kansas Constitution:

The militia shall be composed of all able-bodied male citizens between the ages of twenty-one and forty-five years, except such as are exempted by the laws of the United States or of this state; but all citizens of any religious denomination whatever who from scruples of conscience may be adverse to bearing arms shall be exempted therefrom, upon such conditions as may be prescribed by law.

§ 2: Organization. The legislature shall provide for organizing, equipping and disciplining the militia in such manner as it shall deem expedient, not incompatible with the laws of the United States.

§ 3: Officers. Officers of the militia shall be elected or appointed, and commissioned in such manner as may be provided by law.

§ 4: Commander in chief. The governor shall be commander in chief, and shall have power to call out the militia to execute the laws, to suppress insurrection, and to repel invasion.

This is part of the Kansas Bill of Rights:

§ 2. Political power; privileges. All political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and are instituted for their equal protection and benefit. No special privileges or immunities shall ever be granted by the legislature, which may not be altered, revoked or repealed by the same body; and this power shall be exercised by no other tribunal or agency.

§ 4. Bear arms; armies. The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be tolerated, and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.

§ 7. Religious liberty. The right to worship God according to the dictates of conscience shall never be infringed; nor shall any person be compelled to attend or support any form of worship; nor shall any control of or interference with the rights of conscience be permitted, nor any preference be given by law to any religious establishment or mode of worship. No religious test or property qualification shall be required for any office of public trust, nor for any vote at any elections, nor shall any person be incompetent to testify on account of religious belief.

captain_poindexter 10 years ago

stub nosed .38; that is Jesus' gun.

WWJS

What Would Jesus Shoot.

captain_poindexter 10 years ago

before you accuse me....take a look at yourself.

beatrice 10 years ago

Dear Liberty,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your posts, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

(Some of you may have seen this before, but it is still good.)

Liberty 10 years ago

beatrice,

What ever one He wanted. He is God. I sure wouldn't argue with Him. :-)

Liberty 10 years ago

beatrice,

That is pretty funny. But if you are serious, there is hope for you. Read Romans in the new testament. It will provide the help you request.

captain_poindexter 10 years ago

Wow, I didn't know beatrice was such a fan of the Bible!

That is great, Beatrice! I appreciate your help. I like the Bible even more.

Man, Beatrice, you made my day. You enlightened me. Wow, I am so impressed how put down the Bible - oh, I mean made your case in support of the Bible.

Can I be like you? All kinds of bitter inside. I bet you are fun!

beatrice 10 years ago

cap_p: No. You can't be like me. The last time I allowed that, too many people were constantly following me around, hanging on every word. I didn't care for it.

I am fun, but I'm not bitter -- or was it a typo and you meant butter? I did just go to the movies. Is that what you meant. Are you already following me?

Speaking of movies and popcorn, does anyone else think that the popcorn at the Iowa theater is horrible? More like packing popcorn with grease, than actual popped corn with real butter. Much prefer Liberty Hall's popcorn.

I'm sorry, but what is the topic today? xoxo

Fangorn 10 years ago

Beatrice: Did I read that correctly? You actually prefer something from Liberty (Hall, that is)? ;-)~

Seriously though, regarding the references you made to Levitical law, Liberty is correct that Paul's letter to the Romans is a good place to start in understand the relationship of God's old covenant (testament) to the new covenant.

And as far as which gun would Jesus use, that's easy. Matthew 21:2 clearly states that before He entered Jerusalem, Jesus told His disciples to bring Him a colt!

Oh, and Jayhawk226, I can't pass over your remark without mentioning John 20:29.

Ceallach 10 years ago

Well, I am really confused now. I had to stop reading the board 3 hours ago, come back and it's a whole new world!

When I left OMB was worried about whether he could pick his nose in privacy, when I came back noses were safe but God Almighty was being picked on. However, some of my fellow posters have handled His defense fairly well so I do not have anything to add to that. Besides, I wouldn't want to make some snippy remark, something that could be used against Him:)

Fangorn: "bring him a colt." ROFL ...... can't stop! See what you've done, I will never see that verse the same way again.

I am truly not qualified to talk about guns either. Several years ago my brother became worried about me because of some problems in my neighborhood. He took me to his house to teach me gun safety and how to use a 357 (he just happened to have laying around). After about 3 lessons he instructed me that -- should I think someone was prowling around outside, I was to shoot through the upper pane of the window. Said that way the noise would scare any prowler away, and he wouldn't have to worry about me shooting one of the children or neighbors. A short time later he took his gun back :( and I haven't had one since.

sunflower_sue 10 years ago

Fangorn wins the cookie today for his Matthew 21:2 interpretation. That's just funny. And OMB, you can have whatever Ann Frog doesn't finish for the Fury joke.

Reminds me of a valuable lesson I learned as a teen. I was in the kitchen of my Church (family dinner) and my Uncle mentioned that he smelled gas (from a stove...just to clarify). I said "Don't worry. This is God's house. He won't let it explode." My Uncle, without missing a beat, said: "What? You don't think God has a sense of humor? Just look at your Grandma sitting over there!" ;0)

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