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Should pharmacists have to fill prescriptions for birth control and morning-after pills?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on July 13, 2005

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Photo of Josh Hunt

“I think they definitely should. I just don’t think it’s right for someone to choose what they would or wouldn’t fill based on their own opinion. If they have a problem with it, they should go hang out with Tom Cruise.”

Photo of Kim Jones

“Yes. I think it’s their job and that’s what they are trained to do.”

Photo of Bill Smith

“I think they should. They are not supposed to be making moral judgments. They are supposed to be filling the orders that the doctor prescribes.”

Photo of Casey Chorice

“I think they should. It’s not their decision to do anything but their job. It’s simple - they’re pharmacists and they’re there to fill prescriptions.”

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Comments

Richard Heckler 9 years, 11 months ago

Pharmacies should state their positions on a sign where it can be obviously seen in order that customers can make a choice as to whether or not they want to do business at a particular establishment.

That establishment would not get my business. It would seem to me that moral principles would be practiced by not ingesting birth control.

Byrne 9 years, 11 months ago

I've some sympathies with those who are currently pharmacists and do not wish to supply the morning-after pill (a relatively recent development), but much less for those with problems with all forms of birth control (which have been around for a dog's age). Alternatives should to be at hand for women who need them -- particularly in rural areas. Areas where Wal-Mart, with its restrictive policies, is the only pharmacy going are a big worry.

... But why would students just now going into pharmacy get a pass? You know what you are going into; if you have a moral or ethical problem with a portion of that job, do not go into that career.

lunacydetector 9 years, 11 months ago

my answer is "no."

for one thing, i am truly surprised and suspect that the JW reporter interviewed just 4 people and all of them are in favor of forcing pharmacists to dispense the morning after pill. I do not believe it and think this is a reporter's way of forcing his personal agenda. of course i could be wrong, but i highly doubt it!

what is so wrong with protecting a pharmacist against the prospect of being forced to dispense drugs for purposes that would violate their religious beliefs? this is a straight First Amendment religious liberty issue.

those who are truly pro-choice should have no problem.

neopolss 9 years, 11 months ago

Byrne has a very good point. Certain parts of the country, and especially western Kansas, typically have a very limited selection of pharmacies. That said, it becomes a definate controlling issue, as now the pharmicist is forcing their moral guidlines on everyone around them.

Really folks, it shouldn't stop with birth control. We'll have pharmicists against Ritalin, Viagra, Vioxx, and whatever else one could tie a religious argument to. Maybe there needs to be a religious pharmacy, that offers good 18th century religious remedies. Got a cold? We'll chase that devil out of you!

Considering most know the nature of medicine and the variety of people who need it, if you are a strongly opinionated person about certain prescriptions (not just birth control), I seriously doubt that this profession is one you should be in.

Sorry, I don't go with this pharmacy trend. It is another stab at private companies actually. It should be an understood condition of employment. It seems that the employees are setting the rules now, and the owner has to go along with it. I guess we have new "rights" now that entitle us to employment.

average 9 years, 11 months ago

My parents, and many managed-care covered people I know, are required to get most of their basic pills by internet/mail. Seems to me, if the pharmacists don't want to provide public service, they'll be replaced, by mail-order for most drugs and by drugs directly given by the doctor's office for things that can't wait (morning after pill).

The problem to me will be doctors. Can a doctor (who may be the only doctor in four counties in Western Kansas) refuse to prescribe birth control, because he doesn't believe in it? Can he then refuse to treat HIV because he disapproves of your lifestyle? Can he then refuse to treat lung cancer because you brought it on yourself smoking?

sunflower_sue 9 years, 11 months ago

Does someone at Cabella's have the right to refuse to sell someone a gun because they seem depressed?

Does someone at McDonald's have the right to refuse the 400 lb man a Big Mac because it could kill him?

Does Chevy have the right to refuse to sell that truck to the legally blind 93 year old?

While I am really saddened that someone would decide to kill a child rather than give him/her a chance at life, I do not believe it is within the Pharmacist's rights to play God and make that decision for them. I believe that God wants us to choose for ourselves. That's why were here. To learn, make mistakes, and to hopefully make the right decisions. He sent us a textbook with 10 simple rules, but He didn't intend for someone else to take our test for us. Pharmacists are there to do a job. Not make choices. If they can't do that, they need to find another job.

blnde84 9 years, 11 months ago

I believe all pharmacies should carry all medications approved by the FDA. It is not their job to make the moral decisions. If a doctor has written out a prescription for a patient obviously there is some justification behind the doctor's reasoning. So therefore fill the prescription and do your job professionally without putting your nose into someone else's business that you know nothing about.

grilled_cheese 9 years, 11 months ago

First off,

Students going into pharmacy knew that they would have to fill all prescriptions. If they had a problem with this, then why go into pharmacy? To push their beliefs on unsuspecting customers? To feel control? To be famous and set precident?

Anyway, what drives me crazy are the pharmacists who refuse to fill BC because they say they don't want to kill babies and that life begins at conception. Uh, whah!?! Pharmacy 101: Birth control prevents conception. End of story.

Of course, the morning after pill is a different story, but again, then there was the story of that poor rape victim denied her prescription because someone was taking a moral stand. Go take a moral stand elsewhere or leave, honestly. Get a job as a tele-martyr. Really.

Redneckgal 9 years, 11 months ago

I am opposed to abortion personally and could see refusing the morning after pill possibly. But I would have a problem with them refusing birth control pills. I think thats going to far.

italianprincess 9 years, 11 months ago

My question here is........

When did birth control pills or the morning after pill for that matter become different from any other pill they hand out?

Its a prescription from a persons doctor , just like their doctor would give them something else if they needed it.

I went on the pill at 16 when my mom asked me if I was having sex. I told her yes and she made an appointment at planned parenthood. I didn't have my first child until I was out of college. Better to protect yourself then end up pregnant in high school.

Is the real question here.........Should pharmacists CHOOSE to not fill birth control or morning after pills according to their beliefs? I'm sure there are pharmacists who believe in birth control, but I'm also sure there are those who don't believe in birth control, abortion, or sex before marriage.

tell_it_like_it_is 9 years, 11 months ago

Personally I think about half the drugs they sell anymore are geared more to hypocondrics rather than to treat real illnesses. As far as refusing to sell certain things I guess thats their right if they own their own business.

Redneckgal 9 years, 11 months ago

Okay I just thought of something here. How many of those same pharmacists are filling presciptions for viagra? And how do they know that those guys that are getting it are doing the deed with their wifes? Do they ask for a marriage license?

redmorgan 9 years, 11 months ago

I suppose that it depends on whether the said pharmacist OWNS the pharmacy in which he/she is working out of. If they are working in a Walgreen's, for instance, then I don't believe that they have any right to do anything other than follow the policy of the company for which they are working. But, I am just trying to be objective here.

MadAsHell 9 years, 11 months ago

I know that this prescription refusing business is the exception and not the rule, but for a long time I have wondered why we still have pharmacists in the first place? With technology today, the job isn't any more complex than a clerical position. Go into any Walgreens, and most of the pill dispensation is automated. You don't need somebody who gets paid upward of $50K year to do that! Pharmacists are not creating custom concoctions and tinctures of this or that like they used to 100 years ago... time for change. I think in the future the more you see of pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions because of their own beliefs is when you start to see a movement to replace pharmacists with computers and lower-wage workers who can do the same job they do now without the fancy college degree. Doctors, patientes and drug companies aren't going to put up with lippy pharmacists.

happyone 9 years, 11 months ago

Good Morning! :)

First, in cases of Rape, Insest, or health of the mother The morning after pill should be given regardless!

Now in the case of B/C pills and OOPS I can't belive I'm pregnant then the following

If the pharmacy is a chain (e.g Wal-Mart, Walgreens) then YES the pharmacist has to dispense the prescription.

If the pharmacy is locally owned (e.g Round Corner) then NO the pharmacist does not have to dispense the prescription. HOWEVER, that pharmacy should have it clearly posted that they will not dispense those.

I agreee that if you choose to become a pharmacist you know what that intails and should not continue in the field if you can not or will not fulfill your job duties.

Although it is a very widely used method of B/C the pill is only one of many options!! You can get condoms at any grocery or convience store. And don't start the "womens rights" Go to the Health Dept. and get your pills cut out the pharmacy all together!!

Jay Bird 9 years, 11 months ago

They should shut up and give me my pills. If that's too hard, Mac D's is hiring. All jobs have things you don't want to do. If they want to choose what I take, then they can kick in some money on the scripts they do fill. After all, they do seem to think it's ok to make choices for me.

MadAsHell 9 years, 11 months ago

What makes a chain any different than a local store? Wal-mart is within its rights to make all its pharmacies not dispense certian drugs, just the same as any other business. Plus, the argument of who deserves treatment is judgemental and slippery.

craigers 9 years, 11 months ago

The pharmacist needs to give out the BC pills. However, I don't feel that they should have to give out the morning after pill if they don't want to and if they own their own business. Giving the morning after pill is almost like performing the abortion. I don't like that pill at all, whatever the case.

craigers 9 years, 11 months ago

Why don't we complain about the insurance companies because they determine what you can take and not take by making things rediculously expensive by not covering them?

Fangorn 9 years, 11 months ago

Before commenting on the question (in my next post), does anyone know if there are other recycling options in Lawrence other than Wal-Mart? They're closed for several months while they rebuild their facility. I didn't realize they were closing this week. Now I've got a vehicle full of recyclable material. And I don't want to spend the summer sending to the landfill what could be recycled. Any local options? Or do I have to drive to Topeka or JoCo?

happyone 9 years, 11 months ago

Fanghorn here's a link to yesterday article about it being closed and the local options available

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005/jul/12/walmart_recycling_center_out_service/?city_local

9 years, 11 months ago

It's my body and it's my choice.

A pharmacist has chosen his job and should fulfull it's requirements; which are to fill my prescriptions.

If he/she has a problem with filling my prescriptions, then he/she should find another job.

Why is it that people think their religious beliefs need to be public? I don't give a sh*t, just do your JOB!

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

why not let the market decide if these pharmacists get to keep their jobs? If the give out the pill(s), then more revenue? If they don't, less revenue? What if it isn't a moral issue? It is the morality of it that gets people in a tizzy? People don't have a right to get pills from a pharmacist, they just have a right to get pills.

grilled_cheese 9 years, 11 months ago

dear informed, you are correct that not all bc prevents conception. however, the most recent case that I remember had the sound bite where the pharmacists was talking about how life begins at concpetion and he cannot fills these pill prescriptions anymore because of that (and I believe those pills were your run of the mill orthocyclen type).

But, anyway, beyond my vast sweeping generalization, which I guess I could apologize for, lets go to yours. Can you honestly tell me that pharmacy students never think for a second at some point, "Hey, I may one day have to fill a birth control prescription, you know, since they are filled, like, almost everywhere now....". Or do they just not think about it. Boy, because I would hope my pharmacist would have such foresight. "Sorry, I just don't think ahead...".

Also, abortions are not daily procedures at hospitals. Don't doctors make a decision to go into a small practice where they would preform such procedures? No doctor is forced to work at a planned parenthood. But filling prescriptions, that's in the the job description for a pharmacist. If they didn't want to fill bc prescriptions, perhaps they should have choosen a more morally correct job or location to dispense drugs... or at least post a sign. Maybe a comparison you could have used instead would be a doctor who refuses to treat homosexuals because they don't agree with their lifestyle. I dunno... sounds a little more reasonable and applicable than doctors forced to preform abortions. Ok, but thank you for your comments. I hate to make broad generalizations or stereotype, so I need to be called out.

allateup2 9 years, 11 months ago

For the record. In response to sunflower_sue's comment.

"Does someone at Cabella's have the right to refuse to sell someone a gun because they seem depressed?"

By law Cabella's not only has the right but the obligation to refuse sale of a gun to someone that seems depressed, intoxicated or just suspicious.

rhd99 9 years, 11 months ago

Yes, the pharmacists have an OBLIGATION if a doctor orders those prescriptions. They don't fill, screw them. They're FIRED! Pharmacists don't have a choice. Remember who OUGHT to make the decisions here, the doctor & patient. I don't recall insurance companies & pharmacists being authorized to change any diagnosis of a doctor. They refute the doctor, they're wrong! Fill the prescriptions or find another job!

neopolss 9 years, 11 months ago

It's another pick and choose argument. Pharmicists refuse birth control, and that's it. Unfortunately their beliefs stop far short of the rest of the spectrum. Viagra is a great point. By Catholic faith, filling Viagra would be an endorsement of sex for pleasure, and not for procreation. Original_Bob mentions that birth control doesn't treat anything. Neither do many other things that require prescription filled by a pharmicist. There are many prevention prescriptions, including skin care, nutritional supplements, etc. They don't treat anything, but prevention is a large market as well.

Tom_Foolery, your point is noted, but the difference is a company policy that conforms employee conduct, and the independant pharmicist business owner. I personally find that there should not be an exception to a pharmicist following moral belief if it goes against company policy. It is a condition that was understood upon employment. On the other hand, if it is your own business, you may set all the moral guidlines you wish - I gurantee I won't shop there.

Fangorn - There was an article in the paper yesterday about recycling center closing. There's many options listed for curbside recycling and places around town. I may do once-a-month curbside for a little while, since the cost is actually pretty low.

Fangorn 9 years, 11 months ago

happyone: Thanks for the link. I've read the article. The Bargain Center is in the complete opposite corner of town from where I live, but I have driven by it many times. I should pay closer attention! I'll take my van load over there today. I can keep the glass for a while. I knew I could count on someone here to get me up to speed. Thanks again!

Fangorn 9 years, 11 months ago

Thanks to you too, neopolss. I saw your answer to me after I made my last post.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

would everyone feel the same way about viagra or lipitor or something? or is the issue clouded with it being about birth control & morning after pills.

and, as far as I know, I don't think it is illegal for a pharmasict to refuse to fill a perscription. Correct me if I am wrong, please, just don't have the time to look it up.

the way the Journal World's question reads indicates that it is an option.

and I do agree, if they refuse to fill it, the owner of the pharmacy does have the option of firing that employee.

That IS the free market.

happyone 9 years, 11 months ago

No prob Fangorn :)

Captain_p to reitterate

If the pharmacy is a chain (e.g Wal-Mart, Walgreens) then YES the pharmacist has to dispense the prescription.

If the pharmacy is locally owned (e.g Round Corner) then NO the pharmacist does not have to dispense the prescription. HOWEVER, that pharmacy should have it clearly posted that they will not dispense those.

The "those" should be clearly posted regardless of what "those" are! It could be vitamin C for all I care.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

why a chain? can't Wal-mart just fire the pharmacist?

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

I just want to make sure we are talking about "shoulds" and not "shalls" big difference. if we are talking about "shoulds," the topic turns to mere opinion.

happyone 9 years, 11 months ago

If the Pharmacist doesn't fill the prescription then Yes he/she should be fired....FIRED....FIRED!!!

happyone 9 years, 11 months ago

yes SHOULD ------- opinion I'm not a lawyer/attorney

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

oh ok, great. I agree. If a pharmacist who works at walmart or something doesn't fill the perscription, he should probably be removed. I agree as well, that if the pharmacy has a policy of not filling them, they should not "have" to. free market. thanks happyone!

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

wait wait. now he should be fired? just want to make sure I understand. you would terminate his employment? give him a pink-slip? remove him from his job description? what exactly are you saying?

happyone 9 years, 11 months ago

Ok scenerio #1 Guy works at Walgreens (where they normally dispense day after pill) Guy refuses to fill prescription for day after pill, for his own moral reasons, then Guy should be Fired.

2 Guy works at Round Corner it is Posted "We don't fill day after, B/C pills, Viagra" person comes in wants day after prescription filled. Guy points to the sign "Sorry we don't fill those here" no problem.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

if Walgreens' new president & ceo is a devout catholic and convinces the board of directors of wallgreens that they will not sell the moring after pill, b/c, viagra et al. what result?

happyone 9 years, 11 months ago

good queston c_p.....would have to say that because they have sold b/c in the past (both pills and condoms) that it would have to continue to carry those products...grandfather clause....but not add any "new" but must clearly post what they will not fill.

Topside 9 years, 11 months ago

The only time a Pharmacist should refuse a prescription is if they feel the amounts/dosage of the prescriton would seriously harm or kill the person (allergy perhaps). Usually if pharmacists have these issues and concerns they can simply call the prescribing doctor and get it cleared up. It is not a pharmacists job to judge. It is the doctors decision to know their patients needs and to counsel them about decisions.

Fill the Bottle Monkey!!!

enochville 9 years, 11 months ago

No one should have to perform services that go against their conscience, whether it is providing morning after pills, performing abortions, helping a client not feel guilty about his adulterous affair, or executing a prisoner on death row. The Nazi's forced soldiers to murder prisoners of war. Some will say that is different the soldier wasn't free to find another job. True, but pharmacists, doctors, psychologists, and the like can do a lot of good in their positions and should be free to keep their jobs without acting against their conscience.

Now, as it is not a crime to fill a prescription for the morning after pill, the pharmacists should refer the patient to another pharmacist at the store or at some other store who is willing to fulfill the prescription. If there is no one at a pharmacy who fills those prescriptions, they should post a sign saying such to avoid any embarrassing situation for the patient.

Fangorn 9 years, 11 months ago

I agree with the line of thought that says let the owner of the pharmacy make the decision. Whatever policy they choose should be clearly stated for potential employees, who may then choose to accept a job offer or not based on how the policy accords with their personal moral views. The policy should also be clearly posted for customers, who may then decide whether or not to do business with that particular pharmacy. It would be interesting to see how such an approach would affect the available labor pool and customer base for each type of pharmacy.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

The_Original_Bob, I think you are right, but that was not the call of the question. oh well.

enochville makes an excellent point about simply refering the person to another pharmacist. Or maybe even better yet, knowing that they offer the morning after pill, what if pharmacists that were not comfortable with that pill simply have one that was comfortable with the pill fill the sript? I thinking that is a pretty reasonable idea.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

offtotheright, does that present a problem of discrimination based on religious beliefs? I don't think it does, just a hypo.

DGL 9 years, 11 months ago

Why aren't medical doctors and the entire medical profession outraged by this? If your intent is to force other people to think like you, you go into policy making either with a corporation, a think tank, or government. You don't get a job where it is your DUTY to fulfill the ORDERS of a patient's physician.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

but DGL, there are pharmacys and pharmacists everywhere. it is not policy making when you make a decision to or not to do something.

DGL 9 years, 11 months ago

Put it this way: If a vegetarian who works at Subway refuses to give you a sandwich you want because it violates his/her's personal beliefs that eating meat is wrong, you would be outraged, would you not? His duty is to make your order. It is a pharmacist's duty to fulfil the prescriptions that your doctor has prescribed.

enochville 9 years, 11 months ago

Independent pharmacies are not employed by doctors and do not have to follow their orders. They do have to follow the laws about not selling certain drugs without a prescription. They are not slaves to doctors. They don't have to sell anything they don't want to. They can have the job of a pharmacist and not sell carry or sell certain drugs. Cite proof if I'm wrong.

westerner 9 years, 11 months ago

to the person who said there may only be 1 doctor for 4 counties in western kansas...do you really think western ks is that far from civilization?

enochville 9 years, 11 months ago

I am talking about independent pharmacies and pharmacists. I did not mean to imply that pharmacists do not have to follow their employers or company policy. My main point is against DGL's statement that pharmacists have to obey doctor's "orders". A sandwich maker has to follow company policy to keep their job, but an independent sandwich shop doesn't have to make a meat sandwich just because you want it.

Staci Dark Simpson 9 years, 11 months ago

As for birth control, it should be dispensed freely. We should be thankful that people are willing to use it with all the unwanted children and bad parents out there. I am against abortion, but I feel if some one is raped the morning after pill should definitely be an option.
If a pharmacist isn't willing to dispense your meds (which they should be doing,its their job) go to another pharmacy. There are plenty out there.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

enochville....its sandwich artist, not sandwich maker (sic).

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

yeah, I think it has turned from the pharmacist to the pharmacy question. basically, the question was constructed poorly to begin with. free market, find another pharmacy if you don't like their policy.

BunE 9 years, 11 months ago

As said above, develop a policy and post a sign saying that you have the right to refuse to dispense lawfully prescribed drugs.

If an individual refuses to fill a prescription where no policy exists to refuse that individual should be fired immediately.

If a pharmacist decided to make some sort of moral comment, walk out.

Are their any christian scientist pharmacists? Wouldn't they not be able to fill any prescriptions?

What if you are the only pharmacy in town?

Finally, as I understand it, some women take the pill to regulate their periods, is it immoral to regulate one's period? What about a male who's gentitalia was mutilated and was raised a female, but now is changing back to a male (saw that on Law and Order)? Can the pharmacist make a moral call on this and not give them hormones?

Oh my god, this is ridiculous. If you have moral objections about dispensing drugs, maybe a new career?

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

also recently on law and order, one of the funniest exchanges ever when they fired the assitant district attorney:

"Is it because I am a lesbian?"

historical.

Lib_ee12 9 years, 11 months ago

Seems like everyone is pretty much in agreement, pharmacies should fill prescriptions, period. Who started these debates anyway? Does some pharmacist not like to be out of the spotlight?

Linda Aikins 9 years, 11 months ago

T_O_B - I'M from western Kansas too, first a town of 250 north of Dodge City, then next a town of (now) about 900 around Dodge City! Do you think we are related due to the possibility of a shortage of b/c pill-dispensin' pharmacists?

enochville 9 years, 11 months ago

Lib_ee12: How do you get that we are all in agreement?

average 9 years, 11 months ago

From western Kansas myself. On the extreme case, there is indeed the "full-time-equivalent" of one MD between Wichita, Greeley, Wallace and Logan counties in western Kansas.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Yes, they should fill them unless they are the owner of the establishment and control the policy of the pharmecy.

There seems to be a lot of misconception on how and why the "morning after pill" is used. Often it is prescribed because another method of birth control has failed. When a condom breaks and there is doubt about protection than a woman can get the "morning after pill". From what I've read most of the women who seek out this "emergency contraception" don't know FOR SURE that they are pregnant but would rather be safe than sorry. Its not like you can take the pill when you are half-way thru your first trimester. It is literally for the day after or the first few days after unprotected sex.

People who are against such a thing should really think about this situation. A couple doesn't want to have children. They use condoms. Maybe they use another form of birth control just to be safe. Say the condom breaks. This couple has used contraception and expected it to be reliable. When the contraception fails are they supposed to just "accept" the consequences? The morning after pill gives them the choice (I know THAT word) to control the outcome. When you know you don't want to have a baby should you just stop having sex? Seems like some people think that is truly a viable option. Its usually not after the age of 18. Thus we have that pesky moral quandry, the morning after pill!

grilled_cheese 9 years, 11 months ago

Tom Fool.,

First, hasn't birth control been available as a prescription for at least 20 years? My mother has been on the pill since at least her college years. So, if pharmacasists were so strong in their beliefs, why are they throwing hissy fits now and not 25 years ago?

Second, most prescription drugs are not made to cure diseases, only mask symptoms. If most drugs cured things, eventually the pharmacutacal companies would out of a job, and they don't want that.

Farmers_Daughter 9 years, 11 months ago

Thanks to Original Bob!!! Western KS is NOT what so many picture; and doesn't begin at Monterey Way!! I just returned from my yearly stint of driving combine and farm work (30 miles this side of Colorado, 60 miles North of Oklahoma) and had the opportunity to deal with 2 docs and 2 pharmacists while there. I can't see any that I dealt with refusing to prescribe or dispense the various drugs mentioned here, especially since most counties have both doctor(s) and dugstoes of their own. If you don't like the locals out there, you go to the next county over or go to Garden City (which you will go to anyway for major shopping). While it may be wise to travel to a larger town/city for some medical needs, (like my folks do) the basics ARE covered out there.

bugmenot 9 years, 11 months ago

I haven't read this to see if it was brought up or not, but there was a pharmacist from Oregon who didn't want to fill a prescription for the assisted suicide of a person. Does he not have a right to refuse???

I'm a pharmacist myself and think they should be able to object, just like a Dr. could object to giving a person a medication. And a Dr. always being right, you guys have no clue how often they make mistakes (like everybody). There's mistakes on a daily basis for medications with dangerous interactions, doses way too high, drugs that don't exist. Also, should they have to sell needles to obvious heroin users or steroid users??? There are also Dr's who overprescribe pain meds getting their patient hooked leading to overdosages which I've seen before, should we just keep filling and getting more people hooked. I think a pharmacist should be able to object, personally I don't object to the morning after pill, I think if a woman doesn't want a kid she shouldn't have to have them. But they probably should find a new avenue to work in if they are against certain moral issues.

sunflower_sue 9 years, 11 months ago

allateup2, OOPS, I chose the wrong analogy. Bad me! I still think you get my point.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Whats up yer butt Tom? Some people make it sound like the morning after pill aborts fully formed fetuses. A good percentage of women don't even KNOW if they are pregnant but would rather be safe than sorry. It was merely a clarification. You don't have to be a dick! Oh sorry that is what this board is for, right?

sunflower_sue 9 years, 11 months ago

continued: But, for the record, what about the guy that bought the shotgun here a while back and then went out to the parking lot and killed himself with it? Was Cabela's or the salesman responsible. NO WAY!

But again, that was a bad analogy. I'll shut up now.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

OTTP, how is it the couple's fault if they tried to prevent a pregnancy but all their methods failed? Thats the slippery slope of morality. A couple doesn't want to have a baby but because the condom broke they should have to deal with the consequences even when they tried to prevent it from happening?. Thats like saying a person shouldn't complain when the safety on a gun malfunctions and someone gets shot. It was their own fault, right? Thats what you get for having a gun (or having sex)? Right?

Bruce Bertsch 9 years, 11 months ago

Folks, we are missing the point. Birth control pills are also prescribed for reasons other than birth control. It is no business of the pharmacist why they are prescribed. I am wondering if these same pharmacies also refuse to stock diaphragms, condoms, spermicide, KY Jelly and the like? Would Pharmacists who are into Scientology be excused from filling prescriptions for anti-depressants? This is a door we do not want to open.

spongiform 9 years, 11 months ago

Make b/c pills available in vending machines and let Habib at the local conveniece store sell morning after pills. He can dispay them next to the crack pipes with little flowers in them.

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

Why become a pharmacist if you're not willing to fulfill the required duties of your job? A pharmacist is not a doctor. A doctor writes out the prescription. It is a pharmacist duty to fill that prescription .. regardless of whether the pharmacist agrees with it on a personal moral grounds or not. All I can say is, if you, as a pharmacist, are not willing to do your job then you need to find another line of work.

Its ludicrous! Could any other individual in (name a) profession (here) rock up to work and refuse to do their job? More importantly, if that individual did refuse to do their job, would they be able to keep that job or be hired on somewhere else to do the very job they are refusing to do somewhere else?? C'mon!

beatrice 9 years, 11 months ago

Leave the medical decisions to the doctors. If fulfilling doctors' orders is the job description, then the pharmacist needs to do just that. Fortunately, we are talking about only a very few who want to stand on the soap box and wave their holier-than-thou banner. Most pharmacists I've encountered are caring people who not only do the job properly, but are also a wealth of information on all sorts of medicine, and not just prescriptions.

To happyone: we do not want to make morning after pills only available in cases of rape. If this happens, there will be a lot of scared girls who took part in consensual sex at night accusing a bunch of innocent boys of rape the next morning when the booze wears off.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

wait wait wait, I think we are getting off the point.

Can pharmacies decide what medications they want to give out? plainly, yes.

linux_chick 9 years, 11 months ago

what's with the color-photo, color-photo, b&w-photo, color-photo? LJW messing with Lawrence?

That should be tomorrow's On the Street.

nomorebobsplease 9 years, 11 months ago

grilled_cheese, go back to school. Not all birth control prevents conception. IUD anyone? Prevents implantation in the lining of the uterus, not conception.

Informed-correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you get IUD's at a pharmacy.

I think the right to choose is very important. There are too many unloved and unwanted children being raised in horrid environments. I can speak from personal experience that when a woman decides go bear a child and give it up for adoption....the tremendous pressure on her to keep the child. The attitude of many, many people that no loving, caring person would ever give up a child and what kind of unfeeling monster are you??? is almost overwhelming. It's so much easier when nobody ever knows.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

don't panic:

as an attorney, I can decide not to take certain cases. bingo, profession

italianprincess 9 years, 11 months ago

Tom...........OMG!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmmmmmm, I wonder how long its going to take for them to see that one.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

grilled_cheese 9 years, 11 months ago

Tom F., See my conversation above. 'Informed' kindly informed us that birth control doesnt always prevent conception. Therefore, I guess, since "life begins at conception", that's killing babies as well. I guess I was confused which form of baby killing you were refering to.

My bad.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

nomorebobsplease:

good point, it is a right to choose, not a right to an abortion.
just to make that point clear. there is no right to an abortion, on a right to choose to have one.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

really, Mister_Joe? why do that if....well....you know

Farmers_Daughter 9 years, 11 months ago

Bob-- draw an "x" btwn Johnson and Lakin & Syracuse and Ulysses, and that's pretty close. South of Kendall if ya know the area...

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

Carmenilla [quote] - There seems to be a lot of misconception on how and why the "morning after pill" is used. Often it is prescribed because another method of birth control has failed. When a condom breaks and there is doubt about protection than a woman can get the "morning after pill". From what I've read most of the women who seek out this "emergency contraception" don't know FOR SURE that they are pregnant but would rather be safe than sorry. Its not like you can take the pill when you are half-way thru your first trimester. It is literally for the day after or the first few days after unprotected sex. - [un-quote]

Excellent point! Many people are ignorant (in the truest form of the word .. they are not stupid, just uninformed on the subject) about this particular form of medication. Unfortunately, some choose to remain that way.

rhd99 9 years, 11 months ago

Ok, I admit I am a man who needs to be educated about the hub-bub about these drugs, but I do know one thing companies like Hyvee, Dillons & Walgreens have quality pharmacies & whose CEOs or managers would hear the complaints left & right if their pharmacists refused to fill the prescriptions. I am confident they will fire those non-compliant pharmacists. Now the "mom & pop" pharmacies down at "Jones street" in "anywhere, USA", if they refused, the owners do have rights but if they refuse, then they #1 will not get my sympathy if customer x goes somewhere else, & #2 they can take their beliefs & stick it because the doctors said yes & the patients agreed, & by refusing to fill the pills, it'll be mom & pop's business funeral because they will NEVER be able to compete with the above mentioned three national chains, EVER!

hottruckinmama 9 years, 11 months ago

Oh lord there's no amount of axle grease can make that good!

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

capt dex - Clearly, NO! If a particular pharmacist wants to play God, then they "plainly" studied for the wrong degree :)

However, I do believe that if the pharmacist owns his own pharmacy, it is his/her right to choose what products they do and do not carry. But these store-owning non-complying pharmacist should be made to post their policy in plain site so the potential customer isn't forced to make a fool of themselves.

By the way, as a Public Defender you DO NOT typically have the luxury of choice as to what client you will or will not defend .. there's this little thing called "innocent until proven guilty" even if the client is in-your-face guilty! As a Police Officer, you do not have the choice as to what call you will or will not answer .. if you're in the neighborhood of the discrepancy .. YOU GO! Working in Dillons at the check-out you do not have the right to walk away because someone is purchasing Ohse Bologna over Oscar Meyer Bologna.

Hong_Kong_Phooey 9 years, 11 months ago

I think it's despicable that a pharmacist would do this. There job is not to regulate the moral conscience of their patients, nor is it to force their moral regulations upon the same. Those of you who are supporting this practice, tell me - would you object to the police refusing to help a woman who has been beaten in domestic violence because "she should have known better" and because she "put herself into that situation"? Would you object to the paramedics refusing to help the injured drunk driver who caused an accident? Afterall, consuming alcohol might be against your religious doctrine, right?

DaREEKKU 9 years, 11 months ago

They most definately should. Whether it be a pharmacist denying a woman her right to a morning after pill, or a landlord denying housing to a gay couple your personal beliefs should have no bearing on how you perform a job you took an oath to do. If you have these dispositions and cannot be mature enough to remain nonpartisan in your decision making then you have no place in that particular profession.

happyone 9 years, 11 months ago

Posted by beatrice To happyone: we do not want to make morning after pills only available in cases of rape. If this happens, there will be a lot of scared girls who took part in consensual sex at night accusing a bunch of innocent boys of rape the next morning when the booze wears off.

Look if those girls are getting drunk and having sex they're not being responsible. The morning after pill was designed for cases of RAPE and accidents like condoms breaking NOT to be used as b/c !

happyone 9 years, 11 months ago

Mr_Joe remember only a REAL man will admit to reading Cosmo! and the gas station thing absolutely hilarious! :)

Hong_Kong_Phooey 9 years, 11 months ago

Ceallach - in regard to your comment about me on yesterday's board, please allow me to retort. My children will not have "such an extensive list of my hypocrisies". In fact, I don't really recall being a hypocrite. I have always stated the same sentiments. I don't think that the majority of "homeless" people (really the majority in this town are just slackers trying to 'find themselves' or are against the "capitalist system") need or deserve our increasing the amount of money we spend on them. I do believe that we should help those that are crazy or addicted.

I don't believe that homosexuality is right. Now, I'm not out there with the Phelps' saying that they are going to burn in hell. I'm TOLERANT of their choice (tolerance does not mean a total embrace of an idea!).

I believe that parents, and people in general, should follow the law (whether it be a fireworks ban or a law against murder) and teach others to work within the law to change that which they don't like.

I believe that the police are heroes. Law Enforcement is one of the few service jobs where you can guarantee that usually 50% or more of your customers are going to leave unhappy and hardly anyone ever says "thank you". The same people that you service, and possibly save the life of, are the same ones that sue you because they, in their expert opinion, think that you either didn't do enough or did too much.

I believe that the war in Iraq was long overdue. I don't care if there were WMD's or not. Saddam Hussein thumbed his nose at the International community for over a decade. He killed hundred's of thousands more "innocent people" than we ever will over there. Tell me, how many world leaders do you know of that gassed their own people? I believe that when we leave Iraq will be a better place. If we happen to acquire some extra oil reserves in the process - fine.

I believe that the U.S. should have a strong military and that we should also have a clean environment. I believe in protecting our natural habitats so that my grandchildren will be able to enjoy them. I believe that we should decrease aid to some of less important countries around the world and spend that money on our own people - say education.

Hypocrisy? I doubt it. Just because you don't like the way in which I proclaim my views doesn't make me a hypocrite. Maybe you are too wrapped up in "niceties" to appreciate someone that calls a duck a duck. If I believe something to be one way, I'm not going to sugarcoat it to make somebody else feel better about it because the message might get lost.

enochville 9 years, 11 months ago

Hong-Kong: Your analogies don't apply. A police officer is subject to the community and police chief and needs to conform to the police department's policies. Paramedics have to conform to the policy of the hospital to keep their job. If we are talking about an employee in a pharmacy, your analogy holds, but a pharmacist who owns his pharmacy is only accountable to the law. He or she is a private business owner who can do what he wants as long as he is not breaking the law. There is no business in America that I can think of that is required to sell certain products.

A better analogy is if a hospital has a policy to limit services due to moral objections.

linux_chick 9 years, 11 months ago

happy - the morning after pill was designed to facilitate emergency contraception. That's it.

I hate these ridiculous moral judgements fired at "irresponsible drunk girls" that say nothing for the behavior to judge the boys.

rhd99 9 years, 11 months ago

I may sound like a broken record here, but for the mom & pop pharmacies & the pharmacists at Hy-Vee, Dillons & Walgreens who refuse to fill these prescriptions, they live in their own DIMENTED & Politicially Correct (though these two words are oxymorons at best) worlds because they can't wake up & smell the coffee & look around them knowing their in the world of REALITY! The oaths these pharamcists take must be signed in pen & if the pharmacists refuse to fill these drugs & they bring RIDICULOUS lawsuits against the companies or the customers that walked out, that oath is on paper & the pharmacists are guilty & should be thrown the book!

Sarah Mathews 9 years, 11 months ago

Morning after pills are prescribed regularly for women that are raped. If i were raped, you bet your sweet ass i would take a morning after pill- and no pharmacist should have the right to tell me otherwise.

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

H_K_P - In regards to your "I think it's despicable" post .. Well said! :)

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

don't panic

you are right, THEY don't have a choice but a pharmacist is not on the state's payroll, like a public defender or a cop.

as a private attorney, I have a right to refuse to represent anyone I choose to.

as a private pharmacist, they do to. (I think) :)

enochville 9 years, 11 months ago

I think it is funny that when we are talking about owners of bars having the right to decide whether they allow smoking in their facility many scream, "Don't infringe on private business owners rights." But, when we are talking about pharmacies selling morning after pills, people scream, "Infringe all you want on private business owners rights".

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

yeah, what is the oath.

and everyone stop giving analogies to people that have a statutory duty to perform something.

that is moronic.

has for the pharmacist pushing their morality on you, how is it not the other way around?

compelling a pharmacist to do something they do not believe in may violate the same values that you hold about the morning after pill, b/c or viagra.

how is it any different?

linux_chick 9 years, 11 months ago

I agree w/ enoch for the most part.

I think pharmacists should fill the drug, but forcing them to do so legally doesn't make sense while we still operate health care as a for-profit business.

If we want to require what pharmacies can and must sell/provide, we need to start talking about socializing health care.

enochville 9 years, 11 months ago

linux_chick: thanks for the link. I quoted the following paragraphs that I think are relevant.

"I will consider the welfare of humanity and relief of human suffering my primary concerns.

I will apply my knowledge, experience, and skills to the best of my ability to assure optimal drug therapy outcomes for the patients I serve."

Phrases like "welfare of humanity," "relief of human suffering" and "optimal outcomes" are so ambiguous in meaning. It completely relies on the interpretation of the reader based on their conscience and values. I can see how pharmacists on either side of the b/c and morning after pill issue can claim their are acting for the welfare of humanity, etc. Therefore, nothing should restrict pharmacies from having policies to refuse to fill these prescriptions.

tell_it_like_it_is 9 years, 11 months ago

Its seems like there a couple of common sense ways to avoid this problem. If a mom and pop pharmacy doesn't want to sell certain drugs they should state it clearly on sign in the store. If a phamacist goes to work for a major chain and does not want to fill certain presciptions then they should make this clear early in the interview. That would at least be a start but I suspect that the phamacists who are refusing to fill these are more interested in trying to make a statement then anything else.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

why is that an assumption tell_it_like_it_is?

rhd99 9 years, 11 months ago

Who in our federal government regulates the pharmacies? Is it the FDA or HHS? If it's any of these two agencies, then we need to write to our people in Congress & tell them that one of these two agencies MUST require written agreements between newly graduated pharmacists & the new employers & that the oaths are on PAPER & signed by the companies & pharmacists. I ask that people CONSIDER this because if refusals are coming out left & right by pharmacists & they aren't held accountable, then watch for a horrendous epidemic of ALL kinds of diseases. Conscientious objector is NO EXCUSE for pharmacists. Imagine this, say I am married (I am not in reality) & my wife went to a pharmacy & the pharmacy refused to fill her prescription, with the oath that pharmacists SIGNED with PEN in HAND on paper, that pharmacist's name would be MUD in a court case. I am sorry if this sounds inhumane to many, but let's get our acts together.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

it's not humane, it is alarmist. the probability of your hypothetical is very very low. the pharmaceutical industry is about making money, so are pharmacies. I have no problem with that, but lets not make the mistake that pharmacists are saving lives here. pharmacists provide a very important service, yes.
but claiming diseases will spread because of, lets say, even 20% of pharmacists not wanting to distribute some drugs is completely erroneous. I think Congress has enough on their plate than having to "regulate" every single new pharmacist out there.

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

capt dex - A private attorney, eh? I should jot down your info .. I may need you someday lol

Anyway, a "private pharmacist," as in, an individual that owns their own store, I agree, may have the right of refusal. But your local Walgreens, Wal Mart, etc. pharmacist does not, nor should, have the right of refusal on moral grounds .. UNLESS .. it is the policy of the governing store.

Of course, even then I think its stupid! Wow. That's a mature statement for me to make, isn't it :)

Anyway, as for more on "other professions" .. a bank teller isn't on the state's payroll, and they can't refuse practical service to a member customer. Nor can a pari-mutual teller at the local dog/horse track. What about a nurse in the ER. Can they walk away because they have issues with what you are in for? I'm doubting it. My aunt was the head nurse over the ER earlier in her career and she saw all kinds of sick self inflicted (usually thru naivety) traumas come through. She wasn't able to turn her head and refuse her professional services on the grounds of personal morality!

As for 'old' vs. 'new' pharmacists .. why should an individual who was trained as a pharmacist in the '50's thru '80's (before the Morning After Pill and maybe even before Birth Control was legally approved) be let off the hook?! They went in to being a pharmacist knowing full well that 100's upon 1000's of drugs were/are being invented, tested, etc. per year every year from now until infinity for the market. That's never changed! My niece went to school to become a pharmacist (a damn good one, by the way) and the one thing that stood out the most to her in her first year was the list of more than 70,000 drug names she had to REMEMBER along with what they were prescribed for, the possible side effects, and the chemical make up so that she would know what drugs mixed well with what and which ones didn't. She didn't have time then, or now, to worry much about whether or not the drugs prescribed legitimately by a licensed doctor conflicted with her moral beliefs!

It seems silly to worry so much about one or two drugs available on the market when there are so many more out there that can cause blindness and visual hues of blue (Viagra, anybody?), doncha thunk :)

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

enoch - Not ALL are private business owners. In fact, few are .. they usually work for a franchise of some sort, be it a pharmaceutical, discount store chain or grocery store chain.

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

[quote] - the pharmaceutical industry is about making money, so are pharmacies. I have no problem with that - [un-quote] No, capt dex, being an attorney, I doubt you do :)

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

Tom - Then beer and hard liquor sales will go waaay down :) All the liquor stores and bars will start screaming!

Actually, I was waiting for you to bring up the possibility of a 4 hr .. umm .. firmness. Read the warnings :) It says, more or less, to not panic if this hardening remains for more than 4 hrs but to either contact your doctor or go to the ER immediately lol

Funny stuff!

rhd99 9 years, 11 months ago

DP, thanks. Captain, as for you & others who can't STAND the fact that patients have rights that trump these irresponsible pharmacists, PHOOEY to U 2!!

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

the government payroll was just an example.

your aunt has a preexisting duty in an Emergency Room to give care.

a pharmacist in a similar situation as an ER nurse would be a stretch - giving life-saving, momentary relief.

as a bank teller, the bank teller would have no idea where you got the money, cash etc. there is no moral or value judgment in being a bank teller.

you cannot compare apples to oranges here. I am sure we can all come up with examples of "professions" in where a person cannot withhold performance on moral or ethical grounds. but that misses the point.

as with the old/new pharmacist thing, I didn't mean that they shouldn't be grandfathered in if your plan went into effect, just a poor usage of words.

you concession is well taken though. lol.
and I have no problem with anyone making money. lol

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

how are patients' rights being violated by a few pharmacists who choose not to give out certain meds?

hottruckinmama 9 years, 11 months ago

OH MY GOD I can just picture takin a man in that condition to the ER LOL Think I'd disown 'em in a real hurry

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

capt dex - Wooow, you're good :) And, ditto! But as a juror I would still find your client guilty (in this instance, anyway) lol

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

do you feel anything on viagra? I heard you have a stiff weiner, but no real "enjoyment"

wouldn't know, just asking. lol

Redneckgal 9 years, 11 months ago

Holy Cow! I'm laughing so hard I'm gonna get canned!

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

Tom - For an anniversary joke, I grabbed a sample from my doctor. Didn't go down well with the hubby 'tho .. he didn't get the joke :) The sample ended up in the trash. As for chopping off yer Richard .. err .. umm .. OUCH!! lol

mama - I'm with you :)

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

capt dex - Don't know. You'd have to ask someone with a penis. Bob? rhd?? No, I'm not asking you Tom :)

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

OTTR - Hey! Those toddler gangs are ruthless. These kids come from the kind of sperm that would have muscled its way thru ALL forms of birth control and preventative day-after contraceptives. Scary!

Gives me the willies lol

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

OTTR - Nope. The woman has to go thru a mini-physical and answer a charts worth of questions first.

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

Tom - NOOOW you tell me! sheesh Our anniversary was months ago so the garbage from that week is well and truly gone :)

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

OTTC - Won't do you any good. You need a barbed wire over coat and to be lead by a rabid pit bull. A stun gun in the other hand might come in handy.

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

OTTC - Nah, its really not thaaat bad :) Most of the newer houses are through being built so things have started to settle. In fact, this has probably been the most quiet summer we've had on our street in 4 years. The havoc may pick up come Autumn though. We'll see :)

tell_it_like_it_is 9 years, 11 months ago

4 hours huh? Well that that would impress the old lady! lol

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

That is possibly one of the most offensive ideas you have put out there yet, OTTR. And thats saying something!

linux_chick 9 years, 11 months ago

tellitlikeitis, I'm not a guy, but wouldn't that... hurt?

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

is there something going on between you two that the rest of us don't know about? hmmm, hmmmm????????? a little sexual tension.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

That was even more offensive! See OTTR, its not just you that I take to task...

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

The idea offends me, its not necessarily you, OTTR.

linux_chick 9 years, 11 months ago

that should be funny, TF, but the idea just makes me sick to my stomach.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

And I'm glad to see that date rape is an endless source of humor for you guys. No class at all...

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

TOB, that hurts my feelings! I have way better taste in men than that!!!

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

LOL this is a crack up. you people actually know each other?

tell_it_like_it_is 9 years, 11 months ago

Naw. Its just that camenilla has no sense of humor EXCEPT when its something she brings up like rabbits.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Whatever, you've said in previous posts that you are a single dad. And no woman would ever be as crude about date rape as you have been.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

And tell_it, should I have a sense of humor about date rape? I think a lot of things are funny. That is not one of them!

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Do you guys find that with prolonged erections all that blood flowing away from your brain makes you light-headed?

linux_chick 9 years, 11 months ago

Agreed, Carmenilla. Some people on this board may have personal experience, so a subject so devastating should probably be treated with sensitivity.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

what else is funny carmenilla? poverty? b/c I find that quite ammusing.

hottruckinmama 9 years, 11 months ago

Look out guys she's gonna run tell on you now.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Well, I'm kinda poor and its not that funny!

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

I have not said anything offensive. I subscribe to the "most people are overly sensitive" school of thought. I am usually on the safe side.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Stick it, mama! I have NEVER asked for removal. I myself have been removed many times. You don't know jack!

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Well, somethings are sacred. I can see humor in most things. Rape of any kind is just not funny! Thats how I see it.

linux_chick 9 years, 11 months ago

Blech. I liked it better when we talked about cheese.

Staci Dark Simpson 9 years, 11 months ago

This is the funniest thing I have read in weeks. I am trying to envision peeing while doing a handstand. That image won't leave my mind the rest of the day. Maybe I should make my husband try that just for amusement.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Fred Phelps in on Collegehumor.com. He's the last new picture of the day. You gotta check it out!

lunacydetector 9 years, 11 months ago

it is a First Amendment religious liberty issue.

I am quite surprised that a retailer would want to dispense a chemical that would kill a future potential customer. I agree with Wal-mart's stand on the issue because they understand that if there are less customers in the future they have less business. This might also explain why a small operator doesn't care and just wants to make money so he or she sells the morning after pill - their business won't become any bigger or carry on once they are gone.

It is the reason why the Democrats have lost the past 2 presidential elections. They are missing voters because of the passage of Roe V. Wade in 1973. They would have won both past elections by a decent margin if they had live bodies to vote. Since Democrats are more likely to have an abortion than Republicans, they have been slowly attritting themselves away and will one day be a party of nothing.

Staci Dark Simpson 9 years, 11 months ago

It was a creative comment. Almost as much as crotchfruit.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

yah, what she said! And what was it that you posted TOB? It can't be as revealing as your "member" comment ;-p

Richard Heckler 9 years, 11 months ago

Again if some pharmacists are so principled why don't they post this position where it can be seen...obviously. I would rather see an obvious sign stating a position than be confronted with someone feeling like they need to deliver a moral lecture. I don't want to hear it and I would not shop there.

I am pro choice,pro life and pro family with 3 children. Abortion will not work for us however how others deal with those matters is their business.

Those who feel sex is only for having babies so be it. Then there are those who know sex is healthy so be it...just make your choices wisely.

I know of no parent who encourages anything but abstinence to their children. It is also smart to inform them of other birth control methods as well as all that comes with raising a child. Sex and babies are not horrible and the more information the better. Sex has been around for centuries as well as all of the arguments for and against.

When it comes to the matter of sex perhaps we should not meddle...mind our own business. I was taught God loves everyone and is about forgiveness and compassion and that's who I choose, certainly not someone behind a podium or some slick dressed person on the TV screen.

It is likely that most parents do love their children as this is their best security.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Now TOB has gone and offended Republicans AND feminists. That doesn't happen in one fell swoop too often! Congrats!!!

linux_chick 9 years, 11 months ago

nod. I thought it was funny how he immediately got both defenders of women's right and conversely a republican.

...Seeing as both posters failed to mention the other, I'm not sure if the posters were defending their causes as much as knocking down the other side.

Ceallach 9 years, 11 months ago

H_K_P: Sheesh guy!! Why the harshness? Was that whole bouquet for me? Do you really think the second part of my post yesterday was calling you, personally, a hypocrite? Or predicting that your children would directly accuse you of hypocrisy? I was more than a little surprised by the anger in your reply (retort). Maybe the humor in my statement is best seen when one has grown children and is looking back over many years of child rearing. I sincerely apologize for joking about something you obviously take very seriously. I do not think you are a hypocrite and (prepare yourself) going through most of your 1:24 p.m. post I can honestly say "me too" to the opinions you stated. (Not the part about me.)

Yes, I do try to stay wrapped up in niceties because I have come to the conclusion that a duck is seldom just a duck.

linux_chick 9 years, 11 months ago

We figured it was a joke, TOB. Just wanted to take the opportunity to rib republicans a bit.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Is that ribbed for our pleasure, linux?

linux_chick 9 years, 11 months ago

guess it depends on what you're into.

At the moment, you're the most appealing poster on the board and it sounds like you lack the hardware required.

Take that as you will, but seriously... keep up the good posts.

David Ryan 9 years, 11 months ago

Hi Folks:

Any comments removed have violated the terms-of-use agreement everyone assents to when becoming a user.

It's definitely possible to have a wide-ranging discussion on this topic without veering off into topics tangential to the issue and without using language which is inappropriate for our younger readers.

linux_chick 9 years, 11 months ago

sorry for the ambiguity...

the keep up the good posts comment was for carmenilla.

jmadison 9 years, 11 months ago

These pharmacists' stand is similar to Conscientious objectors. If an individuals moral code precludes his dispensing an agent that he has determined of his own free will to be a violation of his moral code, then he should not be compelled to dispense such agent.

simple_simon 9 years, 11 months ago

I think nectarines taste sweeter.

Maybe I should load up my refrigerator with nectarines!

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

thanks, linux! Same goes for you. I have a feeling that we chicks gotta stay together on here.

Ceallach 9 years, 11 months ago

Carmenilla, are you daring to speak your mind again? Woman, when will you learn :)

Some topics are never funny -- rape is one of them. I agree 100%

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

No ad hominum attacks on there though. Just like here.

I find that you get away with more on there but people are more civil. Strange but true.

Ceallach 9 years, 11 months ago

I believe there is a big difference between b/c pills and the morning after pill.

Maybe some of our more medically informed posters can give us more information on the morning after pill. I have been told that some medical professionals (doctors and nurses) have serious reservations about this medication because of the possibly serious after effects on the woman. According to them, the follow-up procedures necessary to insure the woman's health is crucial and non-compliance could be life threatening. I would think some pharmacies/pharmacists would be hesitant to be in the "line of responsibility" should law suits follow the use of this med.

Anyone have any information about whether or not this is true? I am not in the medical field and don't have a clue. If I woke up and thought I might be pregnant I would not seek a morning after pill I would look for a star in the East.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

I am a republican, but not stoogy and I have a sense of humor. score board.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Well, reading up on the internet about the morning after pill is a lesson in extremes. Some say there are no side effects, some say that it is detrimental to a woman's health. I'm sure you can figure out that there is a political slant to each of these opinions.

I can speak for some women I know who have used the morning after pill. They said it wasn't that bad and they experienced mild cramping and a little nausea. Both said the discomfort was very mild.

Thats their opinion. Take it for what its worth.

linux_chick 9 years, 11 months ago

Aren't the makers of Cialis being sued for causing possible blindness?

J Good Good 9 years, 11 months ago

the morning after pill is basically taking a very high dose of birth control pills, and like the other poster said, might make you want to puke (bc pills do that to a lot of women at first too). The "abortion pill" is the one that requires care from a physican.

the morning after pill has been non-prescription for several years in the UK and they have not seen any increase in use - most women use it when they have been assaulted or the condom breaks.

Ceallach 9 years, 11 months ago

jg: So, the morning after pill is different from the abortion pill? I am so far out of the loop, I thought they were the same. Do you know a website that will give us further information?

Thanks.

BrianR 9 years, 11 months ago

They absolutely should. They don't get to make that decision for me or anyone else. If they can't fill the the prescriptions people bring to them, these bumpkins should leave their profession and get jobs in food service, janitorial or something more suited to their abilities.

John Spencer 9 years, 11 months ago

Ban Pharmacies, ban schools that let pharmacists study, ban pills, ban newspapers, ban businesses, ban government, ban children, ban smoking in your own house, ban housing, ban greasy hamburgers, ban french fries, ban guns, ban paint, ban toothbrushes, ban toothpaste, ban crossing the street, ban self pleasuring, ban sunsets and sunrises, ban walking, ban running, ban designer water, ban sugar, ban grills, ban butter, ban Pam, ban gasoline, ban kerosene, ban alcohol, ban thinking, ban teaching, ban clouds, ban sunny days, ban trucks, ban planes, ban trains, ban banning, ban banners, All of these things could in some way hurt you. Take charge of your life and quit blaming someone, quit blaming the government, or some unseen force from ruining your life. If your beliefs don't allow you to dispense a prescibed drug, ask one of the other pharmacists to assist you. If you don't like smoke, don't go where ther are smokers. If you don't like fireworks,,,, tough its once a year take a vacation and go somwhere there are not fireworks, outer Mongolia perhaps. If you think your house may catch fire, spray lots of water on it the third, fourth and fifth. If you don't like roundabouts, choose a different route. If you are pro-life adopt every child that needs a home. Lets make some banning banners that say ban banner banning.

italianprincess 9 years, 11 months ago

275...........wow

I bet it reaches 300 by midnight.

linux_chick 9 years, 11 months ago

Ceallach:

The morning-after-pill is a form of emergency contraception: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_after_pill

The abortion pill can be taken a couple months after contraception. This is a good example: http://www.ru486.com/topics/articles/article_73.asp

mabel 9 years, 11 months ago

This is a hotly debated 'moral' issue because so few people actually know how the morning-after pill works. According to medical definition, pregnancy begins when a fertilized egg is successfully implanted in the uterus. The morning-after pill (also called emergency contraception) functions by preventing pregnancy, either by preventing ovulation, fertilization, or implantation of a fertilized egg in the uterine wall. It is incorrect to say that "most women who receive this treatment don't know if they are pregnant for sure, but just want to be safe." That is false. If a woman is already pregnant, emergency contraception has no effect. It can only prevent pregnancy; it does not and can not terminate an existing pregnancy. (Many people seem to think that conception happens immediately-- it takes up to three days for fertilization/implantation to take place... hence the 72-hour timeframe for taking the 'morning-after' pill-- before pregnancy has occurred.) Again: if you are already pregnant when you take the morning-after pill, you will still be pregnant. It has no effect on an existing pregnancy. A correct statement would be "Most women probably won't become pregnant anyway, but just want to be safe." That's accurate.

With the 'abortion' pill, RU-486, you're terminating an actual, existing pregnancy. There is a fetus present and growing, and RU-486 ends its life. That's a BIG difference from emergency contraception! Completely different-- but many, many people confuse the two, and one study even found that 13% of LICENSED PHARMACISTS don't understand the distinction. ?!!

The huge irony in all of this is that studies show emergency contraception, if made readily available, could prevent as many as seven hundred thousand abortions a year! Unfortunately, emergency contraception is not made available in many rural areas-- even to victims of rape. One study showed that in some states, fewer than 6 percent of rape victims were offered emergency contraception. That led to 20,000 unwanted pregnancies from rape-- 20,000 women pregnant against their will with their rapist's child-- and a resulting 8,000 abortions that could have been avoided if the possibility of pregnancy had been eliminated. Can you imagine-- you get raped, and denied emergency contraception-- so on top of the trauma of rape, you're left with the decision to carry your rapist's child or have an abortion? It's outrageous.

italianprincess 9 years, 11 months ago

Boy do I have alot of reading to do after the kids go to bed tonight.

tell_it_like_it_is 9 years, 11 months ago

Damn 281 posts and only a couple zapped and carmenilla only got offended a couple times thats gotta be some kind of record

simple_simon 9 years, 11 months ago

Aren't they working on a birth control pill for men? Is it on the market yet? Does anybody know? Not that I'm interested in it, mind you! I like my "essence" just the way it is! Its volume, consistency, and potency are perfect, in my honest opinion. (And my girlfriend even agrees with me....I think.)

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Thank you Mabel for the great information. I learned quite a lot. I think many others on here would say the same.

tell_it, why u gotta hate on me? I think I have every right to be offended when someone jokes about rape. Sorry you can't handle a strong woman who doesn't back down on her opinions.

amnesiac 9 years, 11 months ago

mabel: for many people, life does not begin at pregnancy, but at fertilization. Thus, the distinction between the abortion pill and the morning pill is a difference more of the stage of life being killed, not whether life is killed or not.

On the same lines as the study you saw on the pharmacists knowledge of day after versus abortion pills, I recently saw a study which found that only 13% of such statistical studies are to be trusted.

chevygal 9 years, 11 months ago

simple_simon...i doubt she agrees..but maybe she pretends to!

hmm not that i kno what ur talkin bout newayz...???? ; )

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Oh I don't bait them unless provoked...er, usually.

I'm not one for nicknames much. But its a good one, H&G!

tell_it_like_it_is 9 years, 11 months ago

wrong on all counts ladies. carmenilla if I remember right I'm not the first one to dislike you and probably not the last. Didn't know it was a crime to dislike or disagree as long as you don't get obscene or threatening. as far as I know I've not done either and don't intend to.

chevygal 9 years, 11 months ago

why we pickin on carmenilla?? is she a kerry-lovin-hippie?? well if so i dont like her either! sorry carm

Redneckgal 9 years, 11 months ago

chevygal..Don't know about the Kerry-lovin but she tends to be a little outspoken. Once in a while she has some good points. Anyways seem like some folks don't handle her very well. Personally I think if we all agreed all the time this board would be pretty damn dull so I say its okay to disagree.

chevygal 9 years, 11 months ago

good point redneckgal...i usually get a kick outta readin some of this...either get a laugh or get pi$$ed off! haha

Jayhawk226 9 years, 11 months ago

295 posts....c'mon, we can break the 300 mark!!!!

Ceallach 9 years, 11 months ago

linux_chick, et al: thanks for the info regarding the different pills. I am sure my friend was talking about the abortion pill when she discussed the possible life threatening consequences of the pill (when not done according to the doctor's instructions).

Although I am strongly pro-life I try to never down play or underestimate the emotional anguish that leads women to either the morning after pill or an abortion. I know too many wonderful young women who for whatever their personal reasons were, felt they had no other choice. Those who appear to take the step lightly are, IMHO, a very small percentage, and that appearances can also be deceiving.

Carmenilla: I think I want to add another topic to the never funny list.

Ceallach 9 years, 11 months ago

Regarding today's question. I agree with what seems to be the most common opinion. Your pharmacy = your policies. Employer's pharmacy = employer's policies.

If they do not have a pre-employment agreement (not dissimilar to a pre-nup :) and they feel that they cannot in good conscience dispense according to their employer's policies they should seek employment elsewhere.

chevygal 9 years, 11 months ago

simple_simon...believe me...she's pretending...thats what i do hehe worx like a charm ; )

is this # 300??

dont_panic 9 years, 11 months ago

Do others skim thru the post, at a relatively quick pace, to find where they left off last and when they see Hot Truckin Mama's ID, does it look like HOT ROOKING MAMA?? lol

Maybe its just me.

mabel 9 years, 11 months ago

amnesiac,

You're right that some faiths believe pregnancy begins at fertilization, not implantation. But that's not the medical, scientific definition of pregnancy. Are you suggesting that doctors and pharmacists be allowed to redefine scientific terms according to their religions, and then treat patients accordingly?

It should also be noted that impeding implantation is only one way that emergency contraception can prevent pregnancy. It's much more likely to function by preventing ovulation, tubal transport or fertilization. These stages, I assume, are okay to tamper with--? Or do you find, for example, spermicide to be immoral? After all, it's killing the sperm which might have fertilized the egg which might have become implanted. Every type of contraception is a loss of potential life, technically. Where do we draw the line? At wherever your faith defines life? Or mine? I say we draw the line at a scientifically defined pregnancy.

I should note that I am morally opposed to abortion. I am especially morally opposed to forcing a rape victim to choose between delivering her rapist's child and having an abortion-- when the whole decision could have been avoided with emergency contraception. What would you do? What would you want your daughter to do?

P.S. Re: your quip about the veracity of statistical studies: you're probably right-- the percentage is likely much higher. I think it's a cause for alarm when pharmacists are uneducated about the drugs they're dispensing, but if you want to dismiss it glibly, fine.

simple_simon 9 years, 11 months ago

Uh-huh.

And may I ask, Chevygal, how many times a week do you "pretend" to enjoy your man's "nectar"?

3 times a week? 4 times a week? Each and every night?

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

I can't believe you think I'm a hippie, redneckchevygals!

Anyway, simple_simon, just a bit of advice. If you want your girlfriend to enjoy your "man essence" genuinely you should eat some fresh pineapple before she gets down to business. My hubby and I experimented and we found it works VERY well. I am not averse to the taste personally but I found that pineapple really sweetens it up! Try it sometime.

Redneckgal 9 years, 11 months ago

opps.. better read a little closer Carmenilla..said I didn't know for sure.

Jayhawk226 9 years, 11 months ago

yeah, i'm amazed.....i have been commentless the past two days too.

i'm amazed at the output this week.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Well, you didn't really give me the benefit of the doubt, did ya? C'mon redneckgal, even though I'm one of those "terrible" liberal-types, I'm not all bad. But I'm no Kerry lover, that guy (like 99% of politicians) is full of crap!

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

I can never be sure of the sex of those "bullying" posters. Or if they are in need of sex and that is the problem...

Redneckgal 9 years, 11 months ago

Actually I thought I did give you the benefit of the doubt. And frankly I don't find anything wrong with liberals as I tend to be a half a** one myself. Except when it comes to abortion.

Carmenilla 9 years, 11 months ago

Its all good, redneckgal...I like having other strong women around to torment the men ;-)

And linux, lonely_guy ALWAYS needs a date.

simple_simon 9 years, 11 months ago

Somehow I get the feeling that lonely guy's "tanks" must be full--to the point of almost overflowing-- with "manly essence/nectar"! LOL

Swollen! About ready to burst! Holy cow!

chevygal 9 years, 11 months ago

simple_simon....each n everynight usually..blushes ..is that bad??...n yes he "eats fresh pineapple" too most of the time

Ceallach 9 years, 11 months ago

omb: you said you are using vi, have you ever worked with pico, or it this your first experience with unix? (With this evening's posts I'm almost afraid to bring up the subject of first experiences -- who knows where the board could go with that!!) Anyway, pico is much more user friendly, although not as complex. Pico serves my meager usage needs but maybe you will need the extras that come with vi. Either way, good luck!

Ceallach 9 years, 11 months ago

Hey, just realized, I finally know someone who was questioned for "On the Street!" Bill Smith, he is indeed a health educator and a darned nice young man! But that's a terrible picture of him! He's quite cute, and shy, so he would be blushing if he saw this!

I realize that may not be of importance or interest to anyone else, but what the heck, we never let that bother us on the ljw board.

Have a good night all, pain meds are kickin in so I have to call it a day.

ms_canada 9 years, 11 months ago

What the heck has happened to you people today. Did you all eat silly pills this morning. This forum has deteriorated into something resembling a pig sty today, somewhat full of muck. Shame on you. I think the whole board today show just be wiped out completely. Enough said. Now everybody take a big handful of nice pills tomorrow morning, PLEASE

chevygal 9 years, 11 months ago

im sorry ms_canada..my pharmacist had a personal reason and couldnt fill me script for nice pills..only the silly ones!

sunflower_sue 9 years, 11 months ago

Ms_Canada, I think Lawrence has banned nice pills. We might have to drive up to the border to get some. Maybe we can just order them over the internet. ;0)

Totally off topic, but a blacksnake got into my chicken coop this morning and ate all of my eggs that were due to hatch today...that is, all but one. That egg was cold and out of the nest so I figured it was a gonner. I took it to the burn barrel and cracked it open like I was making an omelet (just to see how far the embryo had developed). Out came a live chick!

5 bucks to the person that can come up with the best moral to this story!

captain_poindexter 9 years, 11 months ago

of course, ms canada comes in from, well, canada to tell us americans what to do, again oh yes ma'am, we'll do what you want real good, ma'am. she pipes in late in the game to tell us how to act on a public post. mind your own business

chevygal 9 years, 11 months ago

kns..eat the pineapple..n she'll do NETHING..im sure of it

simple_simon 9 years, 11 months ago

Chevygal probably has her entire refrigerator stuffed full with pineapples! As a matter of fact, everytime she opens the door, a bunch of them falls out all over the kitchen floor! LOL!

Am I right about that, chevygal? :P

ryanjasondesch 9 years, 11 months ago

"people who are against birth control should be legally forced to adopt 30 children. I hate you people, if I were a Nazi in 1940's I'd subsitute Jews for "pro-life" advocates. Hypothetically." -God (God spoke to me, so it MUST be true).

chevygal 9 years, 11 months ago

i dont think we r talkin bout the same kind of pineapple my guy is.."eating"! ; )

simple_simon 9 years, 11 months ago

You call your "area" a pineapple??

Hmmmm.........

chevygal 9 years, 11 months ago

well no...but he says it tastes just as sweet!

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