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Do you think it should be illegal to leave your car running while unattended?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on December 9, 2005

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Photo of Jennie Fox

“I didn’t know that it was, but it shouldn’t be. I don’t think people should leave their kids in the car while it’s running or anything, but you should be able to warm up your car in the morning.”

Photo of Roger Kelly

“I guess I’m pretty neutral on the issue. You should probably be able to leave it running as long as you can keep an eye on it.”

Photo of Leda Sedlock

“Yeah, I do actually. If not just because there aren’t enough people who know that if someone takes your car while it’s running, it’s not technically considered stolen.”

Photo of Dan Bauer

“Absolutely not. It’s one’s own responsibility. If people want to leave their car running and run the risk of it being stolen, that’s their business. If it’s your car, it should be your choice.”

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l_eustacy 12 years, 4 months ago

It is and it should be. Leaving it running is like gift wrapping a big fruitcake in your driveway.

GreenEyedBlues 12 years, 4 months ago

Says Leda Sedlock: "If someone takes your car while it's running, it's not technically considered stolen."

Is this true? For as long as I can remember, if it doesn't belong to you, and you take it without permission, you've stolen it.

Perhaps leaving the keys in an unlocked car is permission enough for some folks. Hell, they even had the courtesy to warm it up!

Surely there's a better way! I keep a spare remote on my boyfriend's keyring so I can get in my car if ever I lock the keys inside.

Grundoon Luna 12 years, 4 months ago

Children should not be left unatttended in a car, running or not - period. Other than that there should be no law regarding a person warming up their car, unless it's in the middle of a rotary (locally called a roundbout).

enochville 12 years, 4 months ago

I think in most cases, if someone leaves something unattended on their own property, it should not be against the law. The only way I can rationalize this law is that some child could get behind the wheel and seriously injure themselves or someone else or damage someone else's property. I feel that you should have the freedom to do what you want to do with your stuff as long as you are not endangering the well-being of others and I can see how leaving a car idling, unattended could endanger others.

sweatpeagj 12 years, 4 months ago

Wasn't there soomething about this in the paper last year? Where the person was warming the car up and it smashed in to someones property? I wish I could remember exactly what happened. I think if you are in your driveway you should be able to warm it up. We all should understand the risks by now to make an informed decision. If it gets stolen the only people to blame are yourselves. I wonder how the insurance companies would pay on a stolen vehicle that the owner left running..does anyone know?

classclown 12 years, 4 months ago

I figure most thefts of this nature are crimes of opportunity. Some guy walking along in the cold notices a warm car idling in the street or a driveway and decides it's better than walking.

I think if you want to warm up your car you should have an extra key so you can lock it while it's warming up. I doubt Joe Blow walking down the street is carrying a slim jim on him and is unlikely to bust the window as that would sort of defeat the purpose of taking it.

classclown 12 years, 4 months ago

Making it illegal for a person to warm up there car in order to prevent the crime of having it stolen is tantamount to making it illegal for people to walk in certain neighborhoods in order to prevent someone from being assaulted.

Ragingbear 12 years, 4 months ago

Leave it running, but lock the doors. Or do what used to be done with cars. They were called Block Warmers, and were better on the car than cold starting.

sharron5rs 12 years, 4 months ago

I always leave the car running on these freezing days. That is one of the reasons for the extra keys. Lock the car when you go back to the house. Saying I cant do this on my own property is ludicrous. BAN THIS LAW.

neopolss 12 years, 4 months ago

Thank you classclown, well spoken.

Let's consider it this way. I have a one car garage, and two cars. The wife gets the garage, and I get the driveway. Considering it is -13 today, I'd prefer NOT to sit and wait for my car to warm up. It is rather old, and doesn't even begin to give any heat until 20 minutes into warming up. So yes, typically I go back inside and eat breakfast.

The other part of this law is that it is much like the cell phone ban - unenforcable unless your car is actually stolen. Which is exactly what the vicitim want right? For the officer to waste time writing HER a ticket instead of working on finding the car. Let's not blame the vicitim for these crimes. We should feel safe that we don't need everything under lock and key. We might as well start issuing tickets for leaving the house unlocked, toys in the yard, or god forbid, a pet on a leash.

bankboy119 12 years, 4 months ago

How hard would it be to just say you left the keys in it anyways? Without it actually being started.

Manson 12 years, 4 months ago

I say It's your property you paid for it let the mf'er run as long as you want. If it gets stolen..... your own fault.

Some people say..."well that only causes unessicessary police hours on the job" I say if there is someone out there stealing cars warming up then the police need to catch that person because he is probably stealing alot of other stuff. Thats like saying don't buy nice stuff for your place because it might get stolen.

italianprincess 12 years, 4 months ago


I did that yesterday after work after it took me about 20 minutes just to get the snow off of it. I started it, locked it and let it run for a good 1/2 hour with the heater on to help it thaw more. I went back inside ate dinner with my kids, then went to the store. My car was nice and warm and toasty. I don't see any reason why you can't warm up your own car in your own driveway.

Its freakin cold out people......- 13 with a wind chill of - 23. Crazy weather..........go warm up your cars before work, but wear about 7 layers of clothing while you sit in it while it warms so you don't freeze your you now what off.

Redneckgal 12 years, 4 months ago

If someone thinks I'm gonna sit in my truck at minus 10 while it warms up they are oughta their freakin' minds!

beatrice 12 years, 4 months ago

"If someone takes your car while it's running, it's not technically considered stolen." I love that! A perfect example of twisted logic. Does the same apply to a house? If you leave the lights on when away, can someone else just move in? If you don't turn your cell phone off before you set it on a table, can I have that too? That is just simply goofy -- almost a line out of a comedy sketch.

It shouldn't be illegal to warm up your car, we shouldn't blame the victims, and one shouldn't have to lie about just leaving the keys in the car. (Besides, isn't lying a sin?) If I want to leave my fruitcake on the porch with a fork stuck in it doesn't mean just anyone can have a piece. (Although I admit it would be rude to tempt so many hungry passers-by.)

Does anyone know if leaving keys in the car while unattended is in violation of any insurance policies? Something to consider.

badger 12 years, 4 months ago

I'm pretty sure Leda there is mistaken about it not being 'stolen' if it was running when they took it. Cause, if it was true, then if your car was carjacked, then it wouldn't be considered stolen, and to the best of my knowledge it is.

I think it's a ridiculous law if it's designed to keep people from having their cars stolen. If it's designed to keep kids from climbing in and putting the car in gear, it's marginally more reasonable, but not a whole lot.

I think that people who want the city to protect them from cold exposure should complain and demand that the law be repealed because standing for ten minutes in the cold makes one susceptible to bird flu.

italianprincess 12 years, 4 months ago


Thats what I did last night for about a 1/2 hour. Apparently its against the law, but I wasn't going to sit in my car while it warmed up.

classclown 12 years, 4 months ago

Badger I think you just gave everyone the solution!

If a person has their car stolen while letting it warm up, they can tell the police that they were carjacked in their driveway while sitting in it waiting for it to warm up.


justathought 12 years, 4 months ago

My van won't let you lock the it when the keys are in the ignition :( But I have a garage so I am good as far as warming the car up I don't usually have to.

I can totally believe that the insurance wouldn't pay! My cousin told me the other day that if you are in an accident and die but aren't wearing your seatbelt than your life insurance defines it as suicide and won't pay...

On another note...another school day!! Sheesh I guess I won't be getting any work done today either!

Larry 12 years, 4 months ago

Let's see - I own my home, I own my car, I own the driveway and property on which the car sits - yet I can't start up my car and let it warm up. Therefore, I'm being punished because the consequence for the imbecile who is stealing my car is a slap on the wrist because the poor sap had a rough childhood or he didn't know what he was doing when he stole my car since he decided to quit high school after his junior year and now has no money. He was DESPERATE! Thusly, he is the victim and I (the bad guy) INTENTIONALLY provide a temptation that this poor, deprived, desperate individual could not resist. So - now I suffer and have my liberties taken away. Oh- the sadness of it all. And according to some of you - those of us who do start our cars up and let them warm up unattended are the real idiots. Maybe the real idiots are those of us who have sat around and did nothing as law makers create such ridiculous laws. And to think that when some of us were younger, we left the keys to our car in the sun visor or even the ignition. We even left our front door unlocked at night. Of course in those days - if you screwed up - YOU SCREWED UP! There were consequences and we didn't have some liberal lawyer or the ACLU coming up with all these bogus reasons as to why the crime was committed. Okay - off my soapbox. Have a nice day everyone and stay warm by the fire.

lonesome_breeze 12 years, 4 months ago

I agree that it is a drag having to sit in your car and let it warm up on frigid mornings. I personally like the two-key method. I think there is a safety issue in this law as well as the theft issue. Leaving cars running unattended or anytime for that matter is not only gives adult opportunist the chance for an easy mark, it also gives adventurous children or teenagers the chance for a "joy-ride" The "joyrides" can be dangerous and at times fatal to both the joyriders and the Police whom may end up engaged in a pursuit of the vehicle if it has been reported stolen. Not to mention most teenagers and children are just bad drivers from lack of expereince and nervousness.

bthom37 12 years, 4 months ago

TWO sets of keys? I have THREE! Ha!

Of course, I still just leave the car sitting there unlocked warming up, b/c if you want to steal a 92 Ford Tempo, you have way bigger problems than I do.

samsnewplace 12 years, 4 months ago

what a stupid question, name me one person who has NEVER warmed up their cars when it's below zero outside? geez jw, can't you do better than this?

sunflower_sue 12 years, 4 months ago

Class clown gets the cookie today! I agree 100% with what he said. I would just also add that if I lived in town, I would lock it to keep curious kiddies out. And NEVER leave a child in a car for any reason.

We often leave keys in the ignition...they can't get lost that way. Are we inviting people to steal our stuff? If we leave our house unlocked are we inviting criminals in to clean us out? If we don't put chastity belts on our daughters, are we inviting rape? How absurd! This is called knowing right from wrong. If you haven't the ability to make the distinction, maybe you should spend some time in the pen trying to figure it out.

craigers 12 years, 4 months ago

There is no way that I am sitting in my car to warm it up. Isn't that the purpose of warming up your car? Not only to not drive your car cold but so you can get into a warm vehicle instead of freezing on your way to work. If somebody tried to steal my car in my driveway I think I would have to carjack them myself.

Hong_Kong_Phooey 12 years, 4 months ago

Leda, Leda, must be hard going through life for you. Her inspired statement that "...if someone takes your car while it's running, it's not technically considered stolen." has to be the most idiotic comment I've heard in a while. Okay, so if I leave my apartment front door unlocked, and someone enters and cleans out my stuff, it's not considered stolen, "technically", because the door was unlocked?!

I hereby nominate Leda for the "stupid comment of the day" award. Do I hear any seconds?

Jen Catloth 12 years, 4 months ago

i lived in canada for 20 years and everyone left their car running to warm up in the morning and not once did I ever hear of someone stealing their car from the driveway. I think this whole topic says something about the crime in our town.

Charla Welch 12 years, 4 months ago

"I can totally believe that the insurance wouldn't pay! My cousin told me the other day that if you are in an accident and die but aren't wearing your seatbelt than your life insurance defines it as suicide and won't pay..."

justathought, does your cousin sell insurance? If your life insurer claims that not wearing your seatbelt counts as suicide, you (or your beneficiary) need to sue them. By the way, I do know something about insurance. I edit insurance prelicensing software.

badger 12 years, 4 months ago

I warmed my car up when I lived in Kansas, not to save the engine but so that I could feel my feet by the time I got to work.

This morning, I got halfway to work and couldn't understand why I was still cold, and realized that I hadn't warmed my car up one single day since I left Kansas, except yesterday when I turned it on while scraping the quarter inch of ice off the windshield. I was just used to the temperature being warm enough that I didn't have to run the heater on the way to work in the morning. I did, a couple of weeks ago, have to start rolling the windows up.

classclown 12 years, 4 months ago

Posted by bthom37

...if you want to steal a 92 Ford Tempo, you have way bigger problems than I do.

Thanks for the laugh.

A long time ago when I had nothing to speak of, I used to say that if a burglar broke into my apartment, they would most likely have pity and leave a donation.

raven 12 years, 4 months ago

To All who are curious about insurance:

If you leave your keys in your car or it is running and it is stolen then insurance will pay. If you get in an accident and you are not wearing a seatbelt your life insurance will pay--there is no rule or law that counts that as a suicide. I too know something about insurance. I have been licensed and working in insurance for the past 6 years.

Liberty 12 years, 4 months ago

No, we should just use common sense.

It is another useless unenforceable law. The people should take note of all these useless unenforceable laws and have them repealed. The police have enough to do to catch real criminals without trying to generate revenue for the city over things like this.

topflight 12 years, 4 months ago

whoever said this law was uncontstitutional is a complete idiot. the law is in place to protect the owner of the vehicle. there are some real fools in this city.

badger 12 years, 4 months ago

I've always considered frothing loonies who blame the ACLU for everything to be real underachievers. I mean, really, that's like demonstrating your weapons proficiency by standing eight feet from a barn wall and firing a shotgun at it.

Please, find some less stereotypical scapegoats, people! The only thing lazier than blaming the ACLU or the Generic Christian Right Wing for everything up to and including your dog's ringworm is blaming one political party or the other for it.


lunacydetector 12 years, 4 months ago

in these sub-zero temperatures don't even think about trying to make yourself comfortable - if you do, you're breaking the law!

why can't you have your car warming up, locked, with the keys in the ignition?

bearded_gnome 12 years, 4 months ago

nice to see "Topflight" on this morning!

justathought: when you're warming up that van in the garage...think carbonmonoxide poisoning...and vent the van to prevent a dead man.

okay, I think we're done with this topic now...can anything more be addeed beyond this point?

"this...this is your brain on fruitcake!

bearded_gnome 12 years, 4 months ago in honor of the cold/snow/school's out day...another topless day on the board, or shall we be shoeless today? of course, we could all decide on a color of the day?

I see below that 'today' the KU remote sensing center is looking for some one to work on assessment of ice sheets. wow mann.


snow is just sunshine in solid form, that you have to shovel.

classclown 12 years, 4 months ago

Why should the police chase criminals? That costs time and money. It's much easier to go to the scene of a crime at their convieniance and fine the victim for being a victim. Plus it creates revenue for the city.

I guess the lesson here is don't warm up your car when it's cold. Take one of your neighbors' cars that has been warming up. After all, it will be them that gets into trouble, not you.

justathought 12 years, 4 months ago

Wow you guys sure can get your panties in a bunch!!

I didn't say my cousin was correct..or that I researched it...just that she told me that...if it isn't true then it isn't sheesh..I don't have a massive ego that makes me argue to be right when I am not.

Bearded gnome...I don't warm up my van in the garage..I don't warm it up at all because it isn't cold enough to need it being that it is in the garage....

Have a great day :)

jonas 12 years, 4 months ago

Well of course Larry blames the ACLU. It's like the opposite but same version of "It's Bush's Fault!" from the horrible "liberals." That it makes no sense at all only adds to his conservative charm. But hey, who needs to make sense with perspective bias? Ladeeda!

This is a law? Huh. . . . Well, thanks LJWorld, I would never have known.

. . . . Which brings me to my answer. If you're not going to enforce a law, then why have it on the books at all?

I guess maybe, though, that it's for the people who have to shamefacedly tell the police that they left their car running and it got stolen.

Hell, I do this every day. No problems so far. If my car ever gets stolen, you all have my permission to laugh at me. And I won't report it to the police, due to a case of excessive mortification.

Linda Endicott 12 years, 4 months ago

"Here is a snippet of a cartalk column on warming up "...Tom: So here's our recommended procedure: If you have a block heater, that's great. But regardless, start the car and just drive away. Unless it's colder than 10 or 15 degrees out, just driving gently for the first couple of minutes is the best way to warm up your engine. If it's bitter cold out, or the car stalls when you put it in Drive, then you can warm it up for a minute or so. But warming it up any longer than that is a waste of time, a waste of gasoline, and probably an affront to your still-sleeping neighbors."

Uh...I don't know about you, but I have to back up to get out of my driveway...most people do...and my car is much more likely to stall, without warming it up, when I put it in reverse...

A waste of time? It's a waste of time to warm up my car so that my breath doesn't create instant frost on the inside of the windshield when I sit inside it?

Not that I'm an auto expert or anything, but I would think it would be much easier on the engine and the transmission to warm it up first...

badger 12 years, 4 months ago

OMB said:

"The Democrats are causing ringworm! Those b@stards!!"

Oh, yeah? Well, fundamentalist Christians gave my cat psoriasis, so there!

Linda Endicott 12 years, 4 months ago

I think this law is idiotic...nothing like blaming the victim, huh? I suppose, if I had a 3 year old daughter, and some guy grabbed her in Wal-Mart, it wouldn't be his fault for molesting would be my fault for daring to have a child and tempting the pervert...

As for the safety issue of wandering children...what kind of parent would let their small child (or teenager, even) wander around the neighborhood in this kind of frigid weather, just looking for an idling car to "joy ride" in?? My mother taught me to leave other people's property alone...don't parents do this anymore?

Safety issue...hah...I'll believe that's the main concern when they stop idiot parents from buying ATVs for their 11 year old (or younger) children...

badger 12 years, 4 months ago

My guinea pig has the mange, and it's all W's fault.

bearded_gnome 12 years, 4 months ago

one vote for fire engine red!

communists gave us brussels sprouts...that's worse than the ringworm or any skin disease!

avhjmlk 12 years, 4 months ago

Are they expecting people with small children to let their children come out to the car and freeze with them while it's warming up? You can't warm it up in a closed garage, and I'm certainly not going to leave my 20 month old in the house alone while I sit in the car waiting for it to warm up. What's to say that a person wouldn't suffer from momentary cold-induced stupidity and accidentally drive off with kiddo still in the house?

beatrice 12 years, 4 months ago

All y'all are cracking me up this morning.

A fundie gave my sea monkey arthritis. I'm hiring ku_law to sue.

badger 12 years, 4 months ago

My gecko's tail fell off, and I think the liberals should have to pay for that! How do I know it's because of the liberals?

Cause when his tail fell off, it was flip-flopping all over the place!

Ceallach 12 years, 4 months ago

em: yoo-hoo, I left you something on yahoo :)

sunflower_sue 12 years, 4 months ago

I'm sending out a plea for help!!! I've been stuck at home with my school-free children since Wednesday at 1:00. We've baked, we've sledded (BTW, even the kids think it's too cold to go outside), we've read books, watched some TV, done crafts, yadda, yadaa... I'm going to go crazy if someone doesn't come and rescue me. I work at home and can't get anything done. I'm using OTS as an escape. (If I type quietly, maybe they won't find me.) help me. HELP ME!!!!! sob, wail, shuddering intake of breath, more wailing

Maybe I'll go outside and sit in a running car...just tell the kiddies that I have to protect the engine. (I'll be sure to warm it up first and take a good book):)

sunflower_sue 12 years, 4 months ago

Ceallach, don't you know it's rude to whisper? Just leaving the rest of us out of your private little party? Don't you know that there are desperate people today?!?

sunflower_sue 12 years, 4 months ago

Uh oh! They found me. I hope to talk to you all again one day.

sunflower_sue 12 years, 4 months ago are so bad!:) I just sent the squabbling pair off to clean their rooms. Hear that? Silence! Ahhhhhhhhhh!

badger 12 years, 4 months ago

Sunflower_sue, when I was a little badger of 9 or 10 and went to my mom to complain that I was 'bored', she sternly looked at me and said, "Only boring people get bored. I have a nice long list of things that need to be done. You may start by putting on your coat and hat and sweeping out the garage. After that, you may alphabetize the spice rack. Or you can find some peaceful way to entertain yourself."

I decided reading had become lots more interesting in the span of about ten minutes.

sunflower_sue 12 years, 4 months ago

Badger, Good advice! I'll remember that one.

Here's one for parents of tots that I acquired from my wise mother-in-law: When the itty bitties are being loud and/or crying in the car as they sometimes are. Pull into the nearest driveup and order an extra thick malt. The little buggers will be so intent on sucking on that straw that they won't make a peep for the rest of the trip.

Ceallach 12 years, 4 months ago

sunflower_sue: Yoo-hoo, I left something for you on Yahoo :):):)

I sent it to e_m hoping he might post it on lithiumlite. As I was forwarding it to you I noticed that I forgot to add the message that would ask him to post it, and since I cannot send such a message on this board I don't know what to do!! I don't know, just asking.

How expensive it is to have a second set of keys? Much cheaper than cranking up the LPD to look for your car. Does insurance cover you if your car is stolen when you left it unlocked with the keys in it?

katie 12 years, 4 months ago

i think people should be able to do whatever they want. i mean its their car so it should be there decision.

enochville 12 years, 4 months ago

I change my position. If the car is locked and it is a well ventilated area, then I don't see how the car would be a danger to anyone. I can't think of anyway to rationalize this law.

justathought 12 years, 4 months ago

sunny sue...I am in the same from home and getting nothing done...LOL

ladysilk 12 years, 4 months ago

If pre-heating your car is against the law then I want the city to buy me a heated garage. BTW I found my dog, she was playing at a friends house. :)

Ceallach 12 years, 4 months ago

raven: Sorry, I guess you answered my "insurance" question earlier. I hadn't had time to read all the posts. I actually have a lunch hour today (yeah) and I noticed you had already supplied the answer!!

Trekkie 12 years, 4 months ago

l_eustacy: The only problem with that anaology is people don't WANT a gift wrapped fruitcake, but they'll take a car.

cubs86 12 years, 4 months ago

Oh for goodness sakes, does every comment for those select few of you ( you know who you are) have to include a roundabout comment? That running joke never was all that funny. I hope you "roundabouters" get your cars stolen then you can quit worry about the roundabouts. Geez that topic is dead bury it will ya!!

avhjmlk 12 years, 4 months ago

TOB, not that I'm aware of.

And sorry, cubs, the roundabout jokes actually are pretty funny.

You'll just have to learn to love them the roundabout way.

badger 12 years, 4 months ago

The Bobbus Originalis saith:

"I know we have a lunacy detector but is there a bitch and moan detector on this board?"


How on earth could you ever calibrate it, T_O_B? You could never get a sample with a zero level, so it'd just get progressively further and further from a good calibration until it just stopped registering anything ever at all.

But the first few days, when it whined constantly, would be the most annoying...

sunflower_sue 12 years, 4 months ago

justathought, just had my 9 year old cook up some tacos for lunch. They smell wonderful...I'll go see how they taste. I'm going to be very fat by the time my kids get back to school! I think I've gained 5 pounds since Wednesday. (I'm really not kidding!) Maybe the Excedrin I took will curb my appetite. :)

justathought 12 years, 4 months ago

YUM! My oldest is almost eight and totally useless in the kitchen....Honestly I would be afriad to have him use the stove..then my youngest is only 3 so he didn't have school anyway..but you know that together they just bicker

Ceallach 12 years, 4 months ago

I have a remote starty thingy -- it just doesn't work for my car :)

bige1030 12 years, 4 months ago

Personally, I don't warm up my car for too long unless I'm scraping the windows. Back when I read my car owner's manual (How many actually do this now these days?), it said that warm-up was unnecessary for the car.

Besides, the engine warms up quicker when you drive rather than when you sit still. This is much better for the engine since warmer fluids are flowing through it quicker. Also, it's very wasteful of fuel to have your car sit idling for 30 minutes. (Any fans of higher gas prices and exhaust emissions polluting our environment here?)

Of course, this doesn't really hold for older cars - they probably need to be warmed up a bit before driving off.

But anyway, if you're properly dressed for the weather, you really shouldn't have much of a problem going into a cold car and driving away in it while it's still cold. (I don't, and I drive a stick!) This does mean that you're wearing a coat, possibly a cap, and definitely gloves.

Ceallach 12 years, 4 months ago

I'll take our beautiful snow over their beautiful ice -- anyday!!

sunflower_sue 12 years, 4 months ago

justa, get those kiddies cookin! (If it doesn't turn out, you can always make compost.) After they've burned themselves a couple of times, they'll learn. p.s. Taco's were great but I did have to strain the hamburger for her. (I don't really want them to get burned.)

I had my nephew (11 years old at the time) over and was making brownies. He was curious so asked what I was doing. I asked him if he'd like to help and he did. I instructed him to "stir" and he asked me how. I thought it very sad that he didn't know how to "stir" so I made a point to always bake something whenever he came over. Is cooking becomming one of the "lost arts?"

sunflower_sue 12 years, 4 months ago

e_m, my computer is too stupid to open that file and I take none of the blame for it! (OK, well, I guess I could have raised it better.)

avhjmlk 12 years, 4 months ago

It might be. I was so glad when I found out how much cooking/baking our first daycare lady did with the kids. Each of the older kids got a task--one of them unwrapped the butter sticks, one got to measure the sugar, one got to crack the egg--so they all felt like they really helped. She always said that, though you know someone probably sneezed into the cookie dough, or licked 3 helpings off his fingers, the oven bakes out most of the sins and the kids are so proud of themselves that you can stand to eat a little kiddy drool.

She always let my little pumpkin sit on the counter while she did dishes so she could watch, and help throw cups into the sink.

Linda Endicott 12 years, 4 months ago

Well, I have an older car...a really older car...nobody would probably steal it anyway, and no self-respecting teenager would want to be seen in

Not everybody has a new car with those handy-dandy remotes on the key ring that locks and unlocks the doors...another set of keys is an option, and not that expensive, but with my luck I'd forget where I put them...

I thought that the oil started flowing just as soon as you started your car...and at all times while the engine is running...if it doesn't, I think you have a serious problem...any mechanics out there, feel free to correct me if this is wrong...

Still, my problem, with an older car, is that if I don't warm it up for awhile first, it won't go anywhere...every time I put it in reverse, it warming it up is a necessity...not to mention that it has to warm up some before I can even see out the windshield...

I agree with you about dressing for the cold weather...I see idiots all the time going around in shorts and sandals in the dead of winter, with snow all around...they never stop to think about what they'd do if their car died and they had to walk home...

Linda Endicott 12 years, 4 months ago

"crazyks... I take it you're one of those people who didn't think there was anything wrong with the parents letting their kids sleep with Michael Jackson?

FFS, this is an issue of common sense."

I really fail to see what logic you used to come to this, I thought all those parents who let their children even GO to Michael Jackson's house were total idiots...

I'm of the old school that believes that parents should be responsible when they have children, and teach them right from wrong...if they do that, then their children aren't going to be roaming the neighborhood on those cold mornings looking for cars to steal...

My point was that we shouldn't be blaming the victim...and yes, while there are things you should do to be responsible, no one is perfect, no one has a good day every day, and sometimes you might forget...

I still say that if I leave my car unlocked, if someone steals it, they should be going after the dufus who stole it, and not me...

sunflower_sue 12 years, 4 months ago

thanks, e_m, I'll go download it...or have my 9 year old show me how:)

Kathleen Christian 12 years, 4 months ago

Has anyone been informed that it is not good for the car to idle for any longer than a few minutes. AND - if it is driven right after startup it will warm up faster? Especially the newer cars. This was just stated on the news not long ago, but I've alway known it.
Also I didn't know leaving your car idling while unattended was a law. No, I do not think it should be a law, I think people should be educated to the fact that it is not good for your car to leave it idling not to mention that someone can steal it. And should it get stolen under these circumstance s that person deserves it for being such a dumbas*s.

Linda Endicott 12 years, 4 months ago

"See, you had me up until this point. Where did the personal accountability go in your argument? Right out the window with that last argument!

The same way that you, as a parent, feel that YOUR children should be protected and that YOU can take steps and not hold others accountable for can you take the opposite stance on YOUR car that you neglected idling in your driveway unlocked?

I'm not saying the police shouldn't catch the crooks. They matter what kind of negligence precipitated the theft. But they should also go after the person that gave them the opportunity to easily steal the car. If that means a ~$100.00 ticket, consider it a lesson learned. The fact is, the situation probably wouldn't have existed in the first place if you had simply followed the law..."

"Personal accountability: You can't pick and choose."

Actually, my "child" is now 29...and she can take care of herself...or she should be able to...but some things you just can't account for...there's no way to protect yourself in every way possible...and even if you could, some criminal would just find another way around your defenses...

What about the personal accountability of the person who steals the car? Should they get away with a crime just because the car wasn't locked? What kind of logic is that? I walk by cars that are running and unlocked every day...and I've never once had the urge to steal one of them...

What the hell has happened to the world, anyway? Where is that perfect world that Walgreens keeps talking about? How did we get to this point? 40 years ago it was nothing unusual for people to never lock their cars or their houses, yet they weren't held responsible if anything happened...

If you want to put total, absolute personal accountability in this conversation, then what about the law that finds the bartender responsible if they serve a person who has already had too much? Where do you stand on that? Is it the bartenders fault, or does the drinker have any personal responsibility?

I just don't think it's right to blame the victim, regardless of the circumstances...

Linda Aikins 12 years, 4 months ago

E_M - as always, my face hurts because of you.

TOB - I like the word "whather." "Whether" is so yesterday.

Jeremy Lichtenauer 12 years, 4 months ago

From the book.

Sec. 107. Unattended Motor Vehicle; Ignition; Key and Brakes.

(a) No person driving or in charge of a motor vehicle shall permit it to stand unattended without first stopping the engine, locking the ignition, removing the key from the ignition and effectively setting the brake thereon and, when standing upon any grade, turning the front wheels to the curb or side of the highway.

(b) For the purpose of this section, unattended shall not be construed to mean a motor vehicle with an engine that has been activated by a remote starter system, when the motor vehicle is locked and when the ignition keys are not in the motor vehicle. (K.S.A. Supp. 8-1573)

I don't see anything about being parked on private property. Sounds like if this was enforced in someone's driveway there'd be hell to pay.

sunflower_sue 12 years, 4 months ago

e_m, it worked! It really, really worked! Thanks for bringing me into the 21st century! I can now view PPdocs (not to be confused with Urologists...I can still view them, but I'd need an appointment first).

avhjmlk 12 years, 4 months ago

sunny, that was the first one that actually got me truly giggling.

badger 12 years, 4 months ago

So, wait?

That also says you have to engage the parking brake? Half the people I know who drive automatic transmission cars have never used the parking brake except on a hill. They just put it in 'Park'. Is that the same thing? How much money could the LPD make just walking down Mass some Saturday afternoon checking whether or not the parking brake lever was up on each car?

There seems to be some confusion about whether people are saying it's a good idea to leave your car unattended vs. whether it should be against the law.

No one's really saying here that it's particularly bright to leave your car unattended (not even watching it) while it's unlocked and running. However, just because it's not terribly bright doesn't mean it ought to be against the law.

Ceallach 12 years, 4 months ago

omb: Do you think the dems or the reps are responsible for those spores? Someone should be investigating that for a news special!!

Ceallach 12 years, 4 months ago

Where is ms_canada? I don't think she posted yesterday either. I wonder if Edmonton has such a law.

avhjmlk 12 years, 4 months ago

I thought I had been told once that if you park nose-down on a hill you turn your tires in, and if you park nose up, you turn your tires out...Anyone else ever heard this?

avhjmlk 12 years, 4 months ago

Thanks bob. I knew I could count on you for affirmation. You're the best!

Ceallach 12 years, 4 months ago

omb: Actually I see it a lot! Don't forget I work at KU. There are a lot of fuddy duddy administrators and faculty who still remember that parking rule, and use it for the hills.

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz: That is correct. The wheel is turned to rest crooked on the curb to avoid rolling down/up. I was taught to drive by my teamster father (an under reported form of child abuse). The tic in my cheek eventually subsided but the rules of the road remain branded in my mind :)

oldfashiongirl 12 years, 4 months ago

Somebody spoke of a '92 Ford Tempo and who would want to steal that? My son has an '82 Ford Tempo and it runs great. He follows after his mother in keeping cars till the wheels fall off. He likes my my little diddy:

Use it up; wear it out! Make it do, or do without."

You're such a good boy--I'm so proud of you.

This morning my doctor neighbor warmed up his car for at least 45 minutes--must have cost $15 in gas, as he drives a sporty little convertible. Anyone could have driven off with it. My car dealer says it's not necessary to warm a car up before driving off.

Ms-C: I sent a very late post asking you about the suet you mentioned in your 10:40am post, but not in the recipe. I'm good to go except how much suet to use.

Would some kind soul advise how to send e-mails to persons posting on OTS? I'm not very computer literate. I've received several.

Yesterday, I advertised a space heater for sale and this man called and said he would be there within the hour. I kept going to the window to see if he had arrived, had not, so I opened the garage door and placed the heater near the entry door to my greatroom so he would have no reason to enter my house. I looked in there about 20 minutes later and the dang thing was gone!! HE STOLE IT!! People don't have morals anymore.

avhjmlk 12 years, 4 months ago

Excellent. Well, at the ripe old age of almolst 26, I do indeed turn my wheels (and properly, at that) when parked on a hill.

Actually, my anality about using my parking break on hills has been reaffirmed several times. I drive a weenie automatic, but my husband's standard pickup slowly backed itself down our driveway onto the street in KC where we live once. The neighbors had to come tell us. He had forgotten to set his parking break, and gravity overcame his poor Ranger.

Much earlier in my life, my mom's tiny standard Subaru's (back when they WEREN'T cool cars) emergency brake gave out when she was parked nose-down on the hill driveway of the old Holiday Park Pool here in town and ended up with its bumper wrapped around a tree sometime while we were in the pool swimming away. It didn't have far to go, and the car couldn't have weighed more than 8 pounds, so it was just a nice dent, and didn't make the car drive any worse than it already did...but it was pretty freaky!

avhjmlk 12 years, 4 months ago

oldfashion--just click on the blue screen name of the person you want to email. Within that page is a "contact __". Click on that, type in your message, and the LJW will send it for you. Within any email you get from someone here, I think there is a link for sendinga reply to them.

bearded_gnome 12 years, 4 months ago

Sunflower_sue: okay: "every time you kiddies interrupt Mom, that's another serving of brussels sprouts for you--MY PRITTIES!*"

okay then, next, is it time for twister Sunnysue?

or, is it time for spray-application valium?

hope you get through the day SS! could the oldest child read to the the opposite end of the house from Mom's workstation?

and, if all that fails: there's the ducttape game. all kids pretend they have ducttape on their mouth...first to speak looses, and has to eat another serviing of brussels sprouts!

bearded_gnome 12 years, 4 months ago

OMB: I have had the dreaded C.-diff...believe me, it ain't no laughing matter and once you GET RID of the damned thing, it then takes many months for your system to return to normal, with the extensive use of friendly bacteria cultures (like yogart and acidophilis etc.).

not democrat or republican, but it all comes out in the end! the red menace in the seat of government!
bye, gonna walk gnomedog in the snow and make "that yellow snow!"

killjoy 12 years, 4 months ago


Can you have the caller ID traced for the heater thief?

Richard Heckler 12 years, 4 months ago

What about all the diesel engines that are kept running?

Police cars are kept running?

The answer is no.

glockenspiel 12 years, 4 months ago

Thanks to big brother, I will never die, never get fat, never get lung disease, never get old, never forget to wear my seatbelt, never have to worry about building my house in a flood plain....

oldfashiongirl 12 years, 4 months ago

killjoy: I don't have caller ID, but I used the old method of dialing *69 and got the time of day of the last call I had and they gave me the number. I called the number and left message to call me. Of course he didn't call back so tomorrow I will tell him that unless he returns the heater or pays me cash I will turn his phone number over to the police. Trying to be nice about it and would have given it to him had he said he was unemployed or just didn't have the money.

killjoy 12 years, 4 months ago


You're too nice. Hope you get the cash or heater.

l_eustacy 12 years, 4 months ago

They know what to do with fruitcake in Colorado...

11th ANNUAL GREAT FRUITCAKE TOSS, January 7, 2006: Save your holiday fruitcake for a one-of-a-kind toss with residents in Manitou Springs, CO, a historic town at the foot of Pikes Peak. Bring your own, or rent one to toss, hurl or launch. Awards are given for fruitcakes thrown the greatest distance, the most creative use of a fruitcake, as well as for the most beautiful and ugliest of this holiday food staple.

bearded_gnome 12 years, 4 months ago


some one could be seriously injured:

"AP: today, during the annual fruitcake toss at the base of peak's pike, tragedy struck as a bystander was struck and killed by an errant fruitcake. though the victim died instantly, the fruitcake sustained no apparent damage." dog is trained to warn for polar bears, but not being liberal, I don't smell like tastey food to them. so I don't worry. thanks for caring!

OFG, I'm sorry you got ripped off! wow. I hope that jerk or jerkette returns the heater/gets you the money!

night all. at least it ain't so cold tonight!

bearded_gnome 12 years, 4 months ago

oh yeah, my previous post was one dozen dozen posts for this topic...eeeegads, we're trying aren't we!

time to go to sleep...... ...zz..z.z. zzzz

Linda Endicott 12 years, 4 months ago

"Okay, I understand now. You are all for personal accountability as long as it doesn't apply to you. You live in this world, you make observations about how it isn't the same as when you were a young person, you understand that there is a criminal element, that these things happen, and despite all of that, you want to play the victim the minute something that isn't right happens to you, no matter how much information you are armed with. I digress."

To DonQuipunch<

Just for your information, nothing has happened to car is just fine, and still in my possession...I try to always be responsible, and I have never left my car unattended while it was running...hell, I even lock it every time I go somewhere, especially with Christmas coming up and so many unfortunate folks getting presents stolen from their cars...

Feel better now?

I still do not think it's right to hold the victim responsible when a crime occurs...that's kind of like saying a woman who was raped deserved it because of the way she was dressed...which we all know is a bunch of crap, right?

Someday, when you are having a bad day, or are stressed out and just plain FORGET to lock your car and it's stolen, I hope you get just as much sympathy and understanding from the police as you have given to others on this board...

This conversation is are arguing just for the sake of arguing...I suggest you visit mental health to find out why you have so much pent-up aggression...

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