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Are you looking forward to the opening of the Lawrence Farmers Market?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on April 25, 2005

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Photo of Jared Gent

“I didn’t know that there was one here, but I used to go to the one in Wichita all the time. Now that I know there is one here, I will definitely go.”

Photo of Neil Epstein

“I am, very much. I live much closer to there than the grocery store, and it’s fun to run into people and get fresh produce.”

Photo of Monica Parker

“No. It’s just more convenient to go to the grocery store.”

Photo of Peter Montecuollo

“Yeah, it’s great. It’s nice to get fresh produce. The stuff you get at the grocery store isn’t always top quality.”


lunacydetector 12 years, 11 months ago

Downtown Lawrence is the most taxpayer subsidized and promoted area in the county. ever notice the high business turnover downtown? . downtown massachusetts has 1/3 the traffic of the other major roadways in town. this is a perfect area for the farmer's market, downtown needs all the help they can get.

i wish the farmers market the best..


Fangorn 12 years, 11 months ago

Congratulations, kns. I always anjoy a good laugh in the morning! :)

As for the Farmers' Market, I used to work a block from it, but I've never actually been to it. I've always liked the idea of it being there. Maybe this year I'll make my first visit.

ms_canada 12 years, 11 months ago

Farmer's Markets are kind of fun places. We have had one in our city for many years that is open year round on Sat. and Sun. But in the small towns surrounding the city, open only in summer, there are many and they are quite interesting to visit because of all the sale items other than farm produce. Baked goods, jams, pickles, sausage, not to mention the knitted items and quilts, candles, toys, even garden furniture and in the spring, bedding plants. Is your market like that? Anyone? The only drawback is the fact that every thing is way higher priced than a lot can afford.

ms_canada 12 years, 11 months ago

phooey - my snarky comment was meant in a light hearted manner. I meant no offense. Sorry about that. Without tone of voice present, sometimes the wrong impression comes across. That is a chance we posters take. Have a nice day.

remember_username 12 years, 11 months ago

ms_canada - perhaps I'm geting jaded but I read your post three times and failed to find anthing offensive.

The Farmers Market is a great place to go to find fresh foods. It is too bad I don't have the time to go more often as I still have to get some things at the grocery store. Thus I must go two places for food if I want to support the local Farmers Market.

Liberty 12 years, 11 months ago

For the offended, "Let not the sun go down upon thy wrath". Forgiveness strengthens the armor of a poster. Challenging thoughts sometimes test the metal of our armor. We all have opinions, and learn by hearing the thoughts of others, while remembering they are exercising their freedom of speech even if we disagree, which is what makes this country great and the people within it strong.

We don't mean to offend, but to express our thoughts and provoke thinking, outside of the box sometimes. Please forgive us and post again.

Now for Farmers Markets: I really like Farmers markets and think that they should be expanded to support our farmers and our health. The farmers need to be the backbone of this country once again so we are not dependent on foreign food markets, running the risk of starvation in difficult times. We also need to reestablish manufacturing in the USA for the same reason, to rebuild our country and our childrens future.

ive_got_my_ascot_n_my_dickie 12 years, 11 months ago

I once read that the Lawrence Farmer's Market claims to be the biggest such market in the state of Kansas. I have a tough time believing that. I like it, but it doesn't have much to offer. I prefer the River Market in downtown KC.

lovely1 12 years, 11 months ago

Why read the Lawrence, KS newspaper everyday when you're in Canada?

Carmenilla 12 years, 11 months ago

I love how this has become the forum for making fun of people, whether its hippies or christians, someone has to say something inflammatory or sarcastic about the "group" they don't like. How predictable.....How lame. I swear some people post on here not to answer the question but to voice their complaints about a segment of the population they know little or nothing about. Assumptions make asses of us all.

As far as the Farmer's Market goes, what a great way to shop! I love going on Tues and Thurs afternoons. Its not as crowded (but less selection) and I don't have to wake up at the crack of dawn (like on Saturdays) to get what I want. I love all the older farmers and the flower ladies. They all know my daughter and I and say hi to us. Its one of my favorite things about Lawrence.

Fangorn 12 years, 11 months ago

lovely1: I can answer your question. Last fall, an RN in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, wanted to know more about the US's Electoral College system. An internet search turned up the LJWorld website, since the question that day was about the Electoral College. The nurse enjoyed the interaction so much, she kept posting in the following weeks and months. Thus, the reason ms_canada engages in conversation with her southern neighbors.

I second Carmenilla's thoughts. We discuss. We disagree. We exchange information. We often make fun. But that should never be our primary reason for posting. Certainly some points can be made more forcefully by adding a little ridicule, but gratuitous swipes that add nothing to a person's point or assertion only hurt the level of civility on this board.

jonas 12 years, 11 months ago

Of course, the plus side of being offended is that it makes you harder to offend. That's why PC sucks so much, it makes everybody really easily offended.

Farmers Market: The prices usually kill my interest, but the better quality is certainly nice.

ms_canada 12 years, 11 months ago

Carmenilla - right on, dear lady. When we look at the root of the word prejudice, we find 'to pre-judge" or to judge before all is known and that is what several who post comments do. I think that the best thing we can do is to totally ignore rude, nasty comments. To answer them is to urge them on. If we just pretend they don't exist, maybe they will go away. Then again maybe some would wish I would go away. LOVELY - fangorn sort of said it all for me. There are times when the questions warrant a comment from a resident of the far north and times when they don't. It is strange, to say the least, but, you know, I DO feel an affinity with Lawrence residents. My paternal roots are in Iowa and Nebraska. Some day, who knows, I may pay a visit to Lawrence. Some questions enable me to see the differences and the similarities between our two countries or should I say our ways of life.

ms_canada 12 years, 11 months ago

Also, LOVELY, I read the Wash Post. and the Toronto Globe and Mail. I have a keen interest in world affairs. The world has shrunk so much that what happens in Washington and London and Tokyo affects us here in Edmonton, Alberta.

Ceallach 12 years, 11 months ago

ms_canada: may our border and our board be ever open to you. I do so appreciate your posts. Your input is always positive and often gives us interesting glimpses of your homeland. Keep on reading!

Topic: farmers market. I love the farmers market. What a fun way to shop. Yes, you do have to get up at the crack of dawn (on Saturday I consider anything before 9 am the crack of dawn), but you can also drag out the sweats, put your hair in combs or cap and fit right in.

The area grown vegetables are always a treat, and who can resist Mrs. Flory's baked goods on her little table at the trunk of her car. She is an elderly German Baptist woman who is even sweeter than her pies and cakes. Local greenhouses provide annuals, perennials and even caterpillars that children can take home to watch their metamorphsis. Two summers past I bought a couple of Swallow Tail caterpillars and some Rue plants (probably spelled incorrectly) for my then 5 year old granddaughter and set up an old fish bowl for the caterpillars home. Now each summer and fall she harvests her caterpillars, feeds them from the same plants and releases many Swallow Tail and Monarch butterflies.

Got a little wordy there - sorry. Anyway, there is a great variety of goods available, friendly people and though I do not take my dog :) I have not been bothered by one.

Forgot the music - there is usually at least one group of musicians there.

If you can, you owe it to yourself to try it once.

Regarding the grouchy posts. I am becoming more and more convinced that perhaps low carb diets might be at fault here. You know, those unfortunate individuals that must deny themselves real blueberry pancakes or french toast :) One woman's thought, take it or leave it == it's a free country.

lovely1 12 years, 11 months ago

wow fangorn, you gave me the answer I wanted w/o a smart aleick response! you win the prize! :) People get very defensive when you ask one question.. just curious how ms_ got introduced to the ljworld. I also read many other cities newspapers, thank you.

italianprincess 12 years, 11 months ago

I have never been, so I think I will have to check it out.

Now for a really serious question ( which I asked yesterday and got very little response too ).........

Do you truely want anymore child molesters moving to Lawrence then the 60+ we already have living here ?

ms_canada 12 years, 11 months ago

phooey - you got me - I am not sure what you mean by 'good job, children' Do you mean that we say that as in " Now children, you have done a good job" ? or something else. Yah, I know, we sure do get caught up on the tone and atmosphere that sometimes (too frequently) erupts on this forum and have to get our 2 cents worth in. I wonder what a conversation would be like if we were all seated facing one another at a large round table. Would tempers flair and punches begin? It is the anonimity that gives us liscence to spew out our bad feelings, true? Sad, but true. have a nice day.

Ceallach 12 years, 11 months ago

italianprincess: You GO Girl! Ditto to my post yesterday and thank you for keeping this issue alive, it should be a daily concern for residents until we receive better answers and results.

Carmenilla 12 years, 11 months ago

IP, I think we all know the answer to your question. I think there is a lot more to it though. As a parent, I have very irrational protective feelings on the subject. As a realist, I see it being much more complicated. I would rather know who is what and where, in my town. But do you even think about all the messed up dysfuctional people we don't know about? You will make yourself crazy with thinking about ways to protect yourself and your child. I am right there with you! The reality is that child molesters are anywhere (not necessarily everywhere, though) whether they are posted on a KBI website or not. It is sad but true. Continual victims of abuse go on to make more victims of abuse. The vicious cycle is hard to break. These people are hard to treat. There are no good answers. All you can do is love your children the best way you know how. To think that you can protect them from any and every unknown threat will make your brain go cuckoo. Take comfort in the knowledge that Lawrence is still relatively safe. Take comfort in knowing that you are an involved and loving parent. If you want to fight this child molester coming into our little town, so be it, but keep in mind that you are never truly rid of the problem so long as there are damaged people on this planet.

eatlocalfood 12 years, 11 months ago

About the Lawrence Farmers' Market claiming to be the biggest market in Kansas-I don't know about that. It is the OLDEST market in Kansas though. Another aspect that makes Lawrence's market special is the fact that it is a "producer only" market--vendors grow or produce what they sell. They do not allow any wholesale resellers at the market. KC Market allows middlemen to buy wholesale and then resell it to you. Maybe that is why a previous post mention the greater variety of products at the KC Market. Overland Park's market doesn't screen its sellers either.

foodcritic 12 years, 11 months ago

Ceallach - What do you suggest we do to control convicted sex offenders moving into our area? Set up a citizen's review board or something?

Liberty 12 years, 11 months ago

Carmenilla or IP,

Is the list on the internet at the KBI site? Could you post the link for all those that don't know where to find the list please?

Thank you!

Ceallach 12 years, 11 months ago

H_K_P: I'm beginning to see the light! I have looked at liberty's posts, I have also looked at yours.

You are irritated because I choose not to be as rude as you have chosen to be in expressing opinions. I apologize for not meeting your expectations :)

As I rethink my reasons for contributing to the board I do not find "help H_K_P learn to post in a mature manner" among them. So your problem with anything that feels maternal or paternal will have to remain yours to solve.

I am the oldest of 8 children, the mother of three. Do I sound maternal much of the time? You betcha! Can I take the heat for it? You betcha! However, I have never directed my maternal chastisement toward you individually, as you directed your criticism at ms_canada and me, it appears you are more than a little brat, you are a little brat that has real issues with its mother.

Mistaking politeness for weakness is never a winning strategy. I'm moving on -- how about you?

neopolss 12 years, 11 months ago

"I love how this has become the forum for making fun of people, whether its hippies or christians, someone has to say something inflammatory or sarcastic about the "group" they don't like. How predictable.....How lame. I swear some people post on here not to answer the question but to voice their complaints about a segment of the population they know little or nothing about. Assumptions make asses of us all." - Carmenilla

  • Welcome to online forums. Flaming and trolling were probably the first posts ever created in a chat board or BBS. People love to disagree. If we all agreed on a subject, there wouldn't be any need for discussion. The whiners usually become as annoying and pathetic as the flamers and trolls.

That said, the farmer's market has received so much attention in the past two years that it stands a very good chance of becoming lame and over popularized.

Carmenilla 12 years, 11 months ago

Are you sure about that, O-Bob? All the folks I know are growing this stuff. Who isn't?

Hong_Kong_Phooey 12 years, 11 months ago

The first topic: The Farmer's Market

I have been down to it once. I thought that there was some interesting stuff produce-wise, but like many people have said before me, it was too expensive. The craft's seemed to be way too much on the amatuer side - especially for the prices they were charging. However, it's a good way to spend a morning every now and then. I REALLY liked the Farmer's Market in Los Angeles. That was an incredible market.

The second topic: Child Molester's

Italianprincess, Carmenilla, etc. I don't like having convicted sex offender's in my neighborhood anymore than the next person, but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to be there. If they have served their time in prison then their debt to society is fulfilled. Does this mean that they won't do it again? Obviously not. Can we forbid people from living where they want, or living their lives period, because of what they MIGHT do? No. The US justice system does not work that way.

Third topic: Post civility

For those of you that have taken it upon yourselves to be the daily critics of people's level of civility in posts, SAVE IT! We are all fairly grown up and we don't need, nor desire, your gradings. If you don't like what the person has to say, skip to the next post.

Hong_Kong_Phooey 12 years, 11 months ago

Liberty: To answer your question posed to me yesterday, yes, I do know what the emblem means. The phoenix with the phrase "From ashes to immortality" is the city's seal. It represents the fact that the city of Lawrence rose out of the ashes of the many attacks it suffered around the civil war - most notably Quantrill's raid. It then went on to become a city that has grown and prospered and is, so far, immortal and will continue to live on. It's not really that difficult to interpret...unless you're a conspiracy theorist bent on finding obscure meanings in the most minute things.

italianprincess 12 years, 11 months ago

Went to the link that O Bob put on here and theres the list for 51 of the 60 here, so they are not all listed. Thanks O Bob for listing the site.

Just to let you know that of us are getting together to try to put a stop to having more move here. If they move here and we don't know it, then theres nothing we can do about it but deal with it.

The man that is supposed to move here has stated this:

The only way I wouldn't hurt another child is if I were dead. To me this man is still a problem because he admits it himself and I really don't care if he is in his 70s and has medical issues.

We simply don't want anymore then we have now.

Carmenilla 12 years, 11 months ago

Interesting O-Bob...I must be going to the ones who are the real deal. Thank goodness! I rarely go on Saturday morning though and maybe thats when the "fake farmers" are there.

eatlocalfood 12 years, 11 months ago

O-Bob, were you talking about the Downtown Lawrence Farmers' Market when you said: "Most (not all) of the sellers aren't even real farmers. They buy their products in bulk just like the grocery store does." As stated in my last post, Lawrence's market doesn't allow the type of reselling you refer to in your post. If you see produce at the market, it was grown by the farmer. If you have any concerns someone is selling something not grown by that person, find the market manager and share your thoughts. These people are real farmers! Others have suggested that prices may be too high. Farmers sell their produce so they can make a living in our area. NE Kansas has an incredibly rich agricultural heritage. Smaller family farms are being squeezed out due to outrageously high land costs. It hard and uncertain work-uncertain the weather will cooperate, uncertain that pests or diseases won't damage or wipe out a crop, uncertain that we will come down to the market and buy their stuff. I think all they ask is that we show up and give it a try.

ms_canada 12 years, 11 months ago

Ceallach - very well said but you better watch out or you will be accused of sounding 'hoity-toity' like fangorn. ha ha! Do we have to put a little ha ha behind each statement to indicate a light-hearted remark? I, likewise, will move on and say no more about the subject. Let them be nasty if they are so inclined and I agree, some of us who are senior, I have 3 adult children and 4 lovely grandsons, (regret no granddaughters) perhaps do come across at a little 'bossy'. So what. I say. As fangorn pointed out, I am a nurse (retired) I have worked in day-care also. I am a born again Christian, teach, or as I prefer to say, I lead Bible study groups (currently studying Christ as found in Genesis, extremely interesting study) I have a fair bit of time on my hands over the winter, so like to do the forum bit. In the summer I go to my wee cottage at a nearby lake. An ancient one that I purchased 14 years ago with some inheritance money and set about renovating. All by myself!! My father, a carpenter without a son, taught me a lot of carpentry and the rest I got from watching This Old House with Bob Vila. I thoroughly enjoyed transforming this run down little place into a charming retreat for me and my family. My neighbour kept dragging her guests over to show them my "cute" place. I have been most privileged to be able to travel extensively to many parts of the world which only served to help me appreciate my country and my people more. I have studied languages, spanish, portuguese and ukranian, can get by in italian and french. Might sound like blowing my own horn but not my intention. I am not a young person and hence have had more time and opportunity to gather knowledge and experience which some younger posters may not have had. Just a bit of info to maybe help you understand some of my posts. If you are interested, that is. Let me know if you read this.

Liberty 12 years, 11 months ago

Thanks H_K_Phooey! Have a nice rest of the day.

lunacydetector 12 years, 11 months ago

i agree with MACON 47. the City should ban dog walking downtown. i have seen many a dog snap at eachother. i have many young children and i want to take them downtown to shop, not to have my children and i in fear for their safety because some nimrod wants to walk their mean dog downtown.

it is for the health, safety and welfare of the citizens and dogs, that dog walking be banned downtown. there are scientific studies that point out that dogs will fight with other unfamiliar dogs, to protect their turf. if a defenseless child is standing nearby, they could get hurt in one of these fairly common occurances.

Carmenilla 12 years, 11 months ago

How often has this happened, LD? I am downtown all the time and almost NEVER see dogs harming eachother or small children. Are you even downtown to know this to be true? You always say you don't go there because of all the "freaks". Funny....

italianprincess 12 years, 11 months ago

I haven't seen many dogs downtown either, but sure wish people would pick up their dogs mess in my yard and on the sidewalk.


Have some respect for others and pick up after your dog if you have one.

one_persons_opinion 12 years, 11 months ago

I felt compelled to type this post in support of what Hong Kong & neopolss have said earlier about negative posts and how to deal with trolls/troublemakers.

My post is with particularly regards to you, fangorn. You seem like a smart guy who's very well-read/educated and you always have an opinion to share. I think that's wonderful! More power to you! Keep on typing your posts! However, that said, my beef with you, fangorn, is that over the past few weeks (and maybe even months) you seem to have taken it upon yourself to "admonish" and "instruct" other posters here about how to be civil, and in one such post you made recently, you even took it upon yourself to criticize another poster's spelling! I cannot help but feel a sense of condescension/borderline-arrogance emanating from certain posts of yours when you do this sort of thing. And at times your posts have had a rather patronizing tone to them as well. You come across at times like you are the self-annointed room monitor/teacher/instructor/father-figure of this board. And, frankly, speaking for myself, it turns me off. Now I know you're going to write back to me and say that you only admonish other posters that are being rude, and if they weren't so darn rude, you wouldn't have to do it. Okay, fair enough. However, I get the sneaking suspicion that in some odd way (known only to you), you rather enjoy "defending" other posters here....especially the female posters here. You fancy yourself as some sort of "knight in shining armor" the way that you go about "defending" the females here, don't you? I believe you do. And it's a little ironic, in my opinion, because posters like Carmenilla have at times in the past railed against "macho, tough-guy men" (Be it male posters on this board, or men she's met in her travels.) The kind of men who think that women-are-weak-and-helpless-and-can't-do anything-right-without-a-man's-help", type. What's ironic is that many of your "father-figure posts" come across exactly in that manner! Your posts aren't offensive, mind you....but they are, at times, as I say, condescending and patronizing. And some of your posts do contain know-it-all arrogance, I might add.

Bottom line.....Everyone here can handle themselves --and speak for themselves, too--I am sure! I'm speaking just for myself right now. I don't like rude posters either. But I can take care of myself, thank you. When I click on this board and I read the posts here, and when I see that every third post is yours, telling people how to behave, as I said earlier, it annoys me.--And some of your posts annoy me every bit as much as the rude posters do! (Sorry, I'm just being honest here.)

So fangorn, please, put away that ball cap that you're used to putting on before you sit down in front of your computer--you know, the one that says "Supervisor" on it....Okay? Your posts are always welcome, but please, enough with the "now, children, please behave" routine/posts. Thank you.

gyroduck 12 years, 11 months ago

I would rather see more dogs downtown and less people.

The farmer's market is nice.

As for the people who are on here who want to make fun of me and others will never do it to my face so I don't really care.

Ceallach 12 years, 11 months ago

Warning: long, off topic post, feel free to skip (except for foodcritic :)

foodcritic: these cases are reviewed within the legal system, and the decisions regarding when they will be freed are not mine or yours to make (would that it were that easy). My family lives with the knowledge that a registered sex offender (against a child) lives next door to one of us and we therefore take the steps necessary to protect my young granddaughter. When you look at the map of Lawrence marked to show offenders whose address has been verified you quicky see that very few neighborhoods are spared. And as some poster pointed out that does not include those perverts who have not been caught.

However, we have a slightly different situation regarding our soon to be celebrity child molester resident. The residents of this fair city have been told that 1) we will not be informed of his address, and 2) the fine folks that are bringing him here plan to make a living (and apparently a very good one if their charges are an indication) by bringing more to a group home environment. They have placed "bids" on other "elderly" sex offenders. Look through the local list -- one registered offender living near my home was 80+ when he was convicted.

The recent tragedies regarding young children dying at the hands of registered offenders has served as a wake up call to many of us. We have become so politically correct that we no longer feel we can protest even the most evil of deeds for fear of violating the rights of someone who MAY or MAY NOT offend again. When the data clearly shows that a very high percent WILL offend again.

In some cities citizens are peacefully picketing the houses where offenders are living. The news clips I saw earlier this month were of people with signs warning neighbors and others regarding the offender living there. I do not believe the offenders privacy rights should be fully restored upon release when there is a definite possibility that doing so endangers the right to life, liberty, etc., of the children and families these predators live among.

When our celebrity arrives I hope all the concerned citizens of Lawrence will note his arrival in their neighborhood and alert everyone as to where this man is living.

btw, did you see his interview in the LJW? He said he thought his crimes came from his anger, and that he was no longer that angry person -- his other answers, and the remarks he made about why his arrival was delayed, displayed more than a little anger.

Wish I had a 3 or 12 step plan to resolve such a heated issues but alas, I do not. Do you?

Curtis Martell 12 years, 11 months ago

I knew my theory was correct: Every topic in this forum leads to a discussion of sex. Man Lawrence is a twisted place.

sunflower_sue 12 years, 11 months ago

to all the nay-sayers: The Lawrence Farmer's Market is a great place to support local growers. And yes, they are farmers. I'm sure that you could ask any one of the vendors for a personal farm tour and they would probably be happy to give you one. About having produce "out of season", have you ever heard of greenhouses? They are these wonderful buildings that let the temperature actually be higher inside than it is outside. Also great for growing things "out of season". I've personally seen bananas grow in what used to be named "Pence garden center" on 15th street. A tomato is not such a stretch.
Also, as for unpacking produce from "store containers"...many of the farmers who sell at the market also sell to local grocery stores and need those "store containers". Boxes, bags, containers, etc... are more pricey than throwing your produce into the back of a pickup truck, but I don't think the strawberries would appreciate it. Farmers are not just a bunch of uneducated po-dunks that play in the dirt because they don't know any better. Most actually have college degrees. Sounds like you should actually get to know some of them before you judge. As for the crafts, have you ever tried to make your own basket, a ceramic mug, a bar of soap, or weld your own garden art? Explain to me how these are "low quaility" items compared to mass produced crap from a store? For that matter, can you do it cheaper? Personally, I'd rather drink my coffee from a mug that is one of a kind and no more $ than I would have paid at Wal-Mart!
Actually educate yourself on the market. The best way to do this is by showing up and speaking to the vendors. You are cordially invited.

ms_canada 12 years, 11 months ago

to one persons opinion - fangorn does not really need any help from me, but I will offer this. Sometime when you have a bit of spare time, click on the blue name in fangorn's posts and read all of his previous posts. I just wonder at the motive behind your long harangue against fangorn. A lot of us, and not just the gals, are at times grateful to this gallant gentleman when he comes to our defense. It can be quite hurtful when a poster spouts off against you. (as you have done today) Maybe you are just having a really bad day. With some of the really goofy, senseless posts that we get here, a post from fangorn can indeed be a breath of fresh air. I look forward everyday to what he has to say and if he seems to admonish frequently, it is because he usually gets it done quicker than someone else and then they don't bother to do it as it would just be a repeat. So, just to say, I am sorry that you feel the way you do. And as for the goofy, senseless posts, they, too, can be a pleasure to read. It is the nasty, hurtful ones that we can sure do without. As someone above has said, what would this forum be without some disagreement, that is what a forum is all about, is it not? People offering their opinions. Discussion is good but name calling is abhorant.

Ceallach 12 years, 11 months ago

Hmmm. Does that make Eutin, Germany our twisted sister city?

btw, fangorn: I am old enough now to know that women do not have to be like men to be equal to men; boy muscles really are stronger than girl muscles (I hurt myself a lot learning that one in the 70's and 80's, so now I let them lift and say thanks :); and well intentioned assistance should be accepted when needed.

While I am sorry that another poster thinks differently -- please feel free to chime in on my behalf or give me a little more information.

I also appreciate learning new perspectives from all the posters on this site. Perceptions that I try to consider, research and then either accept, modify or reject it. I have enjoyed the interactions of several regular posters, very much. As long as people are opining and not vomiting I am open to their remarks.

remember_username 12 years, 11 months ago

one_persons_opinion - ease up a little and read over a few weeks of postings then see if you still have a gripe with fangorn's posts. I rarely agree with fangorn on his/her opinion and I was the one who was tagged with the misspelling and I took no offense. I've always found his/hers posts to be civil, and while it may appear that he/she leaps to the defense of a few I believe it was the opinion not the sex of the poster he/she defends. I agree that he/she comes across as intelligent and I think that it is an attempt to set the proper tone for the debates that follow. I'm guessing that fangorn is a bit of an intellectual and one with a conservative viewpoint - those combinations are rare enough that one should not discourage there posts : )

remember_username 12 years, 11 months ago

Darn, I spent so much time trying to figure out how to make a smiley face I swapped "their" for "there".

Ceallach 12 years, 11 months ago

ms_canada: Thank you for the post, I found it very interesting. I am deep in a family of nurses. My mother, two sisters, one of my daughters and -- my oldest granddaughter has completed her first two years of pre-nursing classes and has been accepted into a very good nursing school for fall. My life has taken me in a different direction, I am fortunate enough to work at something I love, graphic design. I am at the University of Kansas, home of the Jayhawk. The KU Memorial Unions have a great link on their website regarding all things Jayhawk, including the history and traditions. In case you are interested,

Your cottage sounds wonderful. Not blowing your horn at all. I say good for you!

I have traveled through Europe but there are many other spots I hope to see while I am living here. At this time I spend most of my vacations in the Rio Grande Valley with my mother and two sisters who still live there. I love the valley but Kansas is where my children and grandchildren are so this is my home. I stay quite busy attending their various activities and love every minute of it.

I too am a born again Christian. Being a late bloomer (age 32 at conversion) I am starkly aware of the difference between life without Him and life with Him. I do attempt to post without appearing hoity-toity or preaching to others because I do not feel superior or in any way above other people. I do feel humble and grateful for my abundant life.

As a citizen I also feel entitled to all of the freedoms provided by our constitution, including the free exercise of religion. Some in my country, in a frantic attempt to be PC, mistake freedom of religion to mean freedom from religion. Oops, there I go again :) better save that for another post.

kansas 12 years, 11 months ago

While I think that "One Persons Opinion" was a bit heavy-hand with his or her post, I will say this much.....Fangorn, you do sometimes come across as being kind of a know it all type. And sometimes a little "preachy" too, I guess. Although, I'm not saying that you annoy me to death like Opion says you do. But in a way, I sort of see where Opinion is coming from. Maybe you should just let posters say what they want and just ignore it. I don't know. That's just my two cents worth!

Ceallach 12 years, 11 months ago

Most of us do not have time to proof, reproof and deproof our writing. We are busy solving other pressing problems -- our receptionist can't find the mailbox key!!! Now that is a problem. No, really, she can't, and it is a problem.

wichita_reader 12 years, 11 months ago

Although I am a believer in Christ, I also believe that freedom of religion necessarily includes freedom from religion, or the freedom not to believe.

Ceallach 12 years, 11 months ago

At the risk of sounding too maternal (thought that would reduce the need for he/she regarding me:) We may state our preferences regarding our fellow posters (as I have in the past), but the bottom line is == we are only required to meet two standards.

  1. Amendment I:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peacefully to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

  1. The LJW webmaster's delete button.

Respectfully submitted.

ms_canada 12 years, 11 months ago

fellow posters - if we are honest, we will have to admit that we do try to come across, on this medium, in as intelligent a fashion as possible. This lends credence to our expressed opinions, does it not? And just maybe, some of us are somewhat jealous that fangorn succeeds in accomplishing this better than most of us. Enough said.

Ceallach 12 years, 11 months ago

I completely agree. But the ship of state appears to be listing. The call does not seem to be "I want the freedom to not believe" instead I am hearing "I have a right to go anywhere I want without seeing or hearing anything religious because I find it offensive."

Ceallach 12 years, 11 months ago

H_K_P: I just looked over the late posts from yesterday and I was really surprised to see the little missile you fired at ms_canada and me. So please, talk down to me again and explain why my "grading" of the civility of comments is unacceptable -- but your judging and classification of liberty is acceptable.

I was trying to commend my fellow posters for not resorting to the kind of mean-spirited attacks that occured the night before. It become so obscene the webmaster had to delete several posts before it settled down.

My remarks were not intended to irritate or offend anyone. It seems I was not successful and I apologize.

ms_canada 12 years, 11 months ago

We have the same sort of problem here in Canada. We seem to bend over backwards so as not to offend the new immigrants of other religious persuasion. In our schools, where once the annual Christmas pageant was de rigueur, we now can only have the children sing Rudolph and Winter Wonderland, etc. No reference to Christ must enter into the program. Your statement, ceallach about not seeing anything religious, do you think that is a backlash to the religious right and the effect on your election last Nov.? I have been taught that anytime people are stirred up to a closer relationship with the Lord, Satan becomes very active and stirs up the opposite effect on non believers and they speak out. I think the offensive part comes in from a feeling, maybe even unknown, of guilt. A lot of people are under conviction from the Holy Spirit and want to deny it. They become vigorous in their defense of their freedom. And, of course, they do have that freedom to not believe.

Fangorn 12 years, 11 months ago

one_persons_opinion: I read your post earlier today (three times, in fact) and I've spent the last few hours trying to see things from your point of view. I went back and read my last fifty or so posts, trying to see the offending elements. I try to write to communicate clearly, not to condescend, or as one person put it "hoity-toity" (I'm laughing about that, btw, not taking offense, I haven't seen that term for so long!). I do regret that my posts cause you problems. Obviously if my tone irritates you, you're less likely to hear what I have to say. And that's not good communication. Apparently you've read many of my posts. You obviously took some time and thought for your post to me. (It was nearly as long as some of mine!) I appreciate your interest and your input. I won't make radical changes in the way I post, but I will bear in mind what you've said.

In return, please consider this. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do noting." Edmond Burke. On a much, much smaller scale if the trolls and flamers, those who insult rather than inform, who disgust rather than discuss, are not opposed, they will come to believe their behavior is acceptable. If unchecked, they will do to this forum what they did to the Reader Reaction, and it will be shut down. Perhaps I'm selfish for saying so, but I don't want to see that happen.

Hong_Kong_Phooey 12 years, 11 months ago

Ceallach: Quit apologizing and quit worrying about offending people. I hate it when people say something and then, when it appears someone else doesn't agree, they start apologizing. They are your thoughts so own them. This PC "heaven forbid we offend anyone" mentality that seems to be so pervasive these days - especially in Lawrence, has got to go. People are going to be offended no matter what anyone says.

I was not offended at what you said. Instead, I'm just annoyed with you and ms_canada constantly bringing that condescending "good job, children, on today's posts! You've all been very courteous and respectful, unlike those mean spirited hooligans who dwell on the name calling blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."

If I want to call someone a dumb arse for writing something, I will do that. At least my comments about Liberty were directed at an individual (not that I was calling him/her a dumb arse). I have noticed a pattern in his/her posts that suggest they are WAY paranoid about the government (check out the comment on biometric scanning cameras at intersections - as if Lawrence is such a big concern for the Federal government).

If this post fails to reach you today, due to the late hour, I will copy and paste it for you tomorrow.

Ceallach 12 years, 11 months ago

I do believe many Christians have started realizing that what they considered their God given rights could be man taken, and that affected the election. I hope that made sense, long day, thankful its nearly over. I have taken medication for a migraine -- will try to get back to this tomorrow. Right now I am not finding the words I want to use. Best wishes for a good night.

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