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Should the KU College of Liberal Arts and Sciences charge $30 more per credit hour to build a new science facility and renovate Wescoe Hall?

Asked at Jefferson's Restaurant on October 21, 2004

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Photo of Allison Wiegand

“No, I already pay too much for out-of-state tuition. I am probably paying for things I don’t use already.”

Photo of Nathan Hartshorne

“Yes. Education, education, education. If they need the money for academic purposes, then they should do whatever it takes.”

Photo of Connie Abbott

“That’s a lot. I don’t think they should. I don’t even pay for my tuition, and I still think it’s too high.”

Photo of Tye Zehner

“I think that it is a very large sum of money. They could probably do a lot with it, but the students need to know exactly what they are getting and why the current facilities are not adequate.”

Comments

Savage 9 years, 6 months ago

Just another day in in the ljw blog realm I see. Its amazing... Lulu actually replied to jonas today. Need to fix my pc... Writing in from my phone lately. Costs of edu. Seem to be going up year after year. Sux.

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Adam 9 years, 6 months ago

Yeah, I'm being sarcastic. Doesn't show in print very well, but seriously, I think that tuition has been raised enough in recent years. I do think that it is important that KU support the sports programs and make improvements to increase revenue generated by the university's athletics department, so there is more money to invest in other departs of the University.

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The_Original_Bob 9 years, 6 months ago

Ubermime is kind of talkative for a mime.

I'm going to have to assume Adam is being sarcastic. Hard to tell on this board sometimes.

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Adam 9 years, 6 months ago

What does that have to do with sports? Why don't we put that $30 towards a new scoreboard in Allen Fieldhouse?

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Das_Ubermime 9 years, 6 months ago

Jonas: Barbaric cretin! What, get bored of beating your wife so you figured you would spew your bigoted filth over this forum? Pscha, your trailer isn't enough to fit a mouse's head, much less mine. I scoff at your impotent threats.

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jonas 9 years, 6 months ago

Ubermime, I've got a spot on my wall all picked out to mount your huge, grotesque, painted head. And believe me, it's a big spot.

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missmagoo 9 years, 6 months ago

mrcairo can you do better than coach and the chancellor? um yeah doubt it so shut up!

chick-fil-a is in wescoe now...

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Hi_Jinks 9 years, 6 months ago

Original_Bob and the hoof_meister, on the same side of things? Wait a minute! What's going on around here, anyway??!!

Oh! You guys are on the same side concerning LuLu, is that it?

Okay, then! Count me in!

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Hi_Jinks 9 years, 6 months ago

me......You mean you're not a vegan?!

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Hi_Jinks 9 years, 6 months ago

Because we all thought that you were a vegan!

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The_Original_Bob 9 years, 6 months ago

I'm on your side this time hoofy.

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me 9 years, 6 months ago

There's a Chik-Filet up on campus now? How come nobody told me!!

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FlakeyT 9 years, 6 months ago

Why the f**k should the students get new buildings and resources when they JUST GOT a new Chik-Filet? What a bunch of whiners.

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nicegirl 9 years, 6 months ago

I am voting to medicate Lulu and her wondering mind!

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laser_gun 9 years, 6 months ago

Biology fastest growing? No way! Nearly all of the Biochemistry department is gone (to better things) and the EEB department hasn't shown any growth.

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hoof_hearted 9 years, 6 months ago

carmenilla, nicegirl, sponge Bob, jonas:

I'm seeking your kind permission to lay into Lulu...

(I await any one of your responses, before I let her have it.....)

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Das_Ubermime 9 years, 6 months ago

I don't really have a problem with raising tuition here.

1)The School of Engineering apparently did the same thing (though maybe not as significant of a amount) to fund the refurbishing of their building.

2)From what I have heard, F and O is funded mainly through money from the state anyway.

3)If the new science building follows the format of Haworth, the ratio will be more like 60:35:5 for research:class:administrative space.

4)Biological Sciences truly needs more space as it is one of the fastest growing divisions in the university and the chancellor seems very much in favor of building the Department of Molecular Biology into a much more competitive department and you can't do that without more space.

5)The buildings being built on West Campus are for research use only and are not likely to contain much room for classes or offices for new professors.

Just random opinions based on tidbits which I have heard. Might be wrong, but hey, this is a opinion section...

Finally, I would like to point out that jonas is obviously a conservative neocon mimophobe who refuses to view the world in black and white and insists on carrying out a holy war against all mimes to bring about mimeagaddon for the second coming of Christ (who apparently did not like mimes either).

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Lulu 9 years, 6 months ago

Jonas, I do not understand why you question me. Everything I say is true and deep down you know it. I think the reasons you insult me is because you know that I am right. As for the medicating children who are disruptive, what pray tell would you suggest we do to children who cannot control themselves or their wondering minds? I am all for back to nature and pills do make things better for the children. I am an avid supporter of saving the rain forests because new medicines are being found all the time.

I know that you like me and I like you! Please be my friend.

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jonas 9 years, 6 months ago

Lulu: Baiting has nothing to do with it. I'll say that I think you're bluffing, because I still think your full of it. . . but I recognize that I think that way because, if you are legitimate and our posting legitimate opionions, then you are either hopelessly naive, or completely insane. Reading through your comment history I boil them down to Vote Kerry because Bush is the anti-christ, a vapid fascination with Kerry that totally distorts his good traits (of which there are some) and simply ignores his flaws (of which there are some, as well), argues that children should be heavily medicated so they won't act up in class, and proposes that we "get back to nature." (Where, may I ask, do you think the pills are going to come from?) Am I missing anything? I don't want to believe that a sane, rational person would believe anything that you post as opinion. If you really feel that way, you honestly, as a true suggestion, need to get help, or get educated.

Consumer 1: Thank you, for the depression that I will now be carrying around for the rest of the day.

What do you suggest the students should do about it?

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laser_gun 9 years, 6 months ago

Consumer1: I do not disagree with you in terms of the length of time students spend on campus, or the fact that there is some "robbing of Peter to pay Paul" at KU. KU's tuition makes it one of the best educational values in the country; however, you cannot expect growth when there is no funding or initiative. I will always advocate strong funding for science because I am a scientist and I believe firmly that KU can compete as one of the top tier science programs in the country.

The question of this discussion, as I see it, is who is expected to pay for this and who will see the benefits of it. Obviously we both share a desire to see the best for KU, and therefore we contribute our hard earned money to that end. In order to grow and improve as a university, we have to make sacrifices, now, do those sacrifices come from students, faculty, or administration. Well, if you want to acquire and retain the best faculty, you should probably adequately compensate them, something KU does well with, but believe me, it could be much better.

Sports is a whole separate issue. It essentially supports itself and doesn't need funding, besides it increases our visibility and name recognition. I have not seen any one particular area where KU is blatantly fiscally irresponsible, if there is and I am missing it, it may be because I am over five hundred miles away from Lawrence now and just miss these things in the rumor mill.

It sounds like we are pretty much in agreement here, I would just like to here your response as this is an important discussion.

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hoof_hearted 9 years, 6 months ago

Jonas: if I guess my age, do I win a prize???!!

Cairo: you're right. They apparently pay the "professors" by the pound.

Lulu: you're a lulu.

Nicegirl: be nice!

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penguin 9 years, 6 months ago

Another tuition hike at KU=a whole new song and dance to pass on responsibility. I went to KU during the beginning of the "5-year tuition plan" (that has never set right with me and always sounded like someone in marketing was a big fan of Stalin). I argued in meeting after meeting with the administration that increasing tuition will just give the state that much more justification to cut funds. However I was rebuffed time and time again by the Provost. Assuring me that if students kicked in more money at a higher rate the state would follow suit. At this point I had spent about a year and a half interning in Topeka and knew this just was not true. Does it even make sense?!?! I know they have not floated this argument yet, but just wait it is coming. Along with this argument will be, but everyone in the country is gouging their students why can't we? Ok they say comparatively we are still lower.

What the funds are going for, give me a small break. 1) refurbishing Wescoe. That eyesore should be torn down and rebuilt. I would have happily paid for that as a student. However just a few years back they did refurbish at least the lecture halls in Wescoe and used prison labor to boot to do the job. 2) Building a gynormous science building. Did I miss something or did the state not just extend bonds to pay for something on West Campus? The building is not even supposed to be done for a while and they are already saying it is not going to work.

Also to the idea that this tuition is not a big one. Well of course next to the current increases it is not, but remember this is still only year three of the five year plan. So in effect tuition will go up about 18% more for the next two years and add another 6.25% on top of that. In the end even if it is just another $1000 on top of the current increases, that is a lot of money to heap on top of an already big increase that is not even over yet.

In the end I think this is just a bad move not merely because it can hurt students who are not from this part of the state (I came from Hays), but it can also have a chilling effect on any budget increases via state funds. Many of the individuals west of Topeka and all the way to the border are growing increasingly wary of KU (well minus the b-ball team). This in turn bleeds over into who they elect to serve in Topeka. Already the crowd up in Topeka has little or no love for the Chancellor. Anyways if you are someone from a part of the state that dislikes KU and you see they are raising tuition through the roof to pay for things, how likely are you going to feel you must support higher ed funding for KU....not bloody likely. I mean it would be like a kid who gets a job and then asks his parents for more allowance money....it just does not make economic sense. Ultimately it lets Topeka off the hook for increasing funding to KU and they can walk away claiming they are broke.

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nicegirl 9 years, 6 months ago

Why is it that you feel it necessary or even appropriate to comment on someone's weight in regards to how much money they earn? It just shows that you have no intelligent opinion on the matter so you degrade them for a weight issue that is not even relevant to matter at hand. How mature of you.

In regards to the tuition hike, I guess my question is if a new science building will help improve the curriculum for those students or if it is just an unnecessary way to get rid of Wescoe just because it really is an ugly building.

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consumer1 9 years, 6 months ago

Laser_gun. I do my share of ranting to be sure. I don't express myself too well. However, what I meant, was that the average student stay at KU is four years (five now) so every four years or so there is not a familiar face on campus. And like you I am bombarded by the alumni assc. for request for contributions. I just struggle with continuing to throw money at programs that divert any monies made into yet other programs. Too simply put we rob Peter to pay Paul. All in the name of budget manipulation. You did a very nice job of stating your case.

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mrcairo 9 years, 6 months ago

Why don't they cut those enormous salaries to those overpaid underworked p.e. coaches and use some of that money instead. Perhaps the fat-cats, and I do mean fat, should shed some of their salaries to help pay for it.

The Chancellor and that fat-ass football coach are both way overweight. Perhaps they could do a sell-a-thon, per pound, as they lose weight. That would build the entire new building don't you think?

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laser_gun 9 years, 6 months ago

Ok, KU alumni here and I am totally in favor of the tuition hike to pay for improvements. And I must say that even though I no longer pay tuition, I am happy to contribute to KU through the Alumni Association (as many of my fellow Jayhawks do).

Consumer1 one is right, he's just doesn't know it. What drives any science research program is external funding, funding from institutions such as the NIH, NSF, etc. These organizations provide grants for research. Some of this money is siphoned off by the departments to pay "overhead" (ie, the cost of maintaining, developing, recruiting, generally supporting the department). If you move some of the research labs out of other buildings and into the new building, you have more room for students. Therefore the 60% increase in research lab space is a 60% increase in classroom space in the old buildings.

The number one way for KU to become a top-tier research institution is to invest in facilities. Some departments there are very strong and already have top-notch dedicated faculty that make a tremendous contribution to their respective scientific fields; however, limited facilities are hampering KU's transition from a top 40 institution to a top 25.

Considering the average student takes about 15 hours of classes per semester the cost of tuition would increase less than 1,000 dollars per year. If you are paying 16K already another 1K is only a 6.25% increase.

Of course its easy for me to support a tuition increase that I will never pay, however, I think it is the right idea to take KU to the next level of quality education, or you can pay less and get less; plus, all of these improvements will have to be made sometime and it only costs more down the road.

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The_Original_Bob 9 years, 6 months ago

The only way they should charge an extra $30 per hour is if they tear down Wescoe Hall. What an eyesore.

Ummm... Lulu, the Federal Gov't doesn't really fund state universities. That's the state's job. 'What more can I say', you ask, nothing. Absolutely nothing.

consumer - sort of agree with your post. Actually, they get wide eyed gullible students every year, not every four. I agree about the high priced profs and slave GTAs. Disagree about the Enron management style, but I get your point. Enron made money, albeit illegally. KU just asks for handouts.

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consumer1 9 years, 6 months ago

Yet anohter mindless comment from Lulu. Go ahead Lulu, just throw money at problems. Don't try to figure out what is wrong, just throw money. Incredible...I thinkg you should send your money (if you have any) to KU and help the chancellor pay his bills. You know he doesn't make as much as the president of Harvard...

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consumer1 9 years, 6 months ago

Just another thought? With each new building comes support staff? Professors, administrators, janitors, security, etc. what are the real cost asscocitated to this new building ? Wages, salaries, upkeep etc. The university already whines about not having the funds to keep the current building maintained. The real question should be, do you think this $30. increase will be the last? Will it be enough to feed this money guzzling pti called KU??? And... What about real property values? does this mean the gross debt of the U of K goes up another 25 Million? As long as the students allow this shameful behavior of shaking students and parents over the endless money pit without accountability, they will continue to do so.

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Lulu 9 years, 6 months ago

I almost didn't dignify you with a response because you are baiting me. I do not know why you quesiton me. I don't beleive in labels. We live in an open society where we are free to express our opinions. As for the question of the day. If the Shrub funded our schools they wouldn't be asking for a tuition increase. What more can I say? Vote Kerry! He will bring honesty back to the presidency. Thank you.

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consumer1 9 years, 6 months ago

So, they cut a little deeper into the tuition paying students at KU to build a New "Science" building. Hmmm? Let's try to look ahead at what this new building will actually do. It will be 60% research labs space, 38% administrative offices, leaving a balance of what? 2% class rooms space. What is wrong students? The people running the university are supposed to be the most highly educated fiscally efficient managers. Why can't they manage thier own budget w/out having to stick it to the students every year??? To many high paid administrative positions, and wasteful spending. We all know (or should) that KU is chomping at the bit to be a leading research school. (paying high salaries to professors who use slave student labor to develop theories for publication). The university is big busininess that has an "Enron" management style. So, every four years they recycle the old with the new and start all over again. What a sweet deal. Every four years they get a new batch of wide eyed gullable students who get radical for a semester about the cost of education. Then the process starts ove again they become apathetic and concerned with their own issues and just take the booty bump with out so much as a kiss. So, students consider this, it may only be $30.00 per hour this semester, but, many of you will just say to yourselves, Hmmmp! I graduate next semester anyway. "what do I care" this is the mentality the monster is made of. How much will your apathy cost the future students and more importantly, you are being trained to think that tough budget crisis simply means just pass the problem on to someone else. That doesn't fix the problem.

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jonas 9 years, 6 months ago

1: Fake. The medicating kids comments is too stupid to be true. 2: No, I don't buy it. 3: John McCain, or Cthulhu. Maybe Cthulhu, McCain. 4: Toss up, b) or c). 5: 23. Any older, and that's just sad, man. 6: I don't know. I have other things I should really probably be doing. 7: Fester, definately.
8: Hard choice. I'm gonna have to go with the penguins scenario, even though I dislike Bush more than Kerry. 9: No more tuition hikes! 10: Definately, and certainly.

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jonas 9 years, 6 months ago

HIJACK!!!!!!!!

Take this survey and recieve. . . absolutely nothing!

1) Is Lulu a real person, or a fake uber-liberal?

2) Is Lulu employed by the LJWorld to incite controversy?

3) Who would you write in for the next election if you had the choice, as both candidates are total losers?

4) Who did you root for? a) Roadrunner: Man, he didn't want to get eaten, and he was cute! b) Coyote: Man, he was just hungry! c) Roadrunner: Man, how much did you just drop on that partical accelerator, Wile E? Here's a tip: buy a damned hamburger!!!! Five bucks, supersized! Super genius my a$$!

5) Guess Hoof-Hearted's age.

6) Do I have too much time on my hands this morning?

7) Who would win in a fight, Dick Cheney or Uncle Fester?

8) Which would you rather watch: John Kerry getting mobbed by penquins in Roman Legionairre Helmets or George Bush getting nailed by a boxer kangaroo with an attitude?

9) Should KU jack up fees that much more, or should THEY USE THE EXTRA FUNDING FROM TUITION GOING UP OVER 100% OVER THE LAST FEW FREAK'N YEARS TO PAY FOR ANY NEW STUFF?!?!? WHERES THE MONEY GOING PEOPLE?!?!?!?!?!! A.D. SALARIES?!?!? WESCOE RENOVATIONS?!?!?!?!? WHAT'S UP?!?!?!?!? (pick a question to answer, I know there were a couple in there)

10) Are mimes the most totally satanically evil things ever created on God's green earth, and should they be considered fair game for responsable hunting?

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