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Would you feel safe flying to your holiday destinations this year?

Asked at Hy-Vee on Sixth Street on November 22, 2004

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Photo of Steve Buckner

“Yes, if I had somewhere to go. I used to fly a lot, and that stuff never bothered me. I’ve had some of my best sleep on airplanes.”

Photo of Dawn Trotter

“Yes. I’ve flown a lot in the last couple of years. I think security is getting better, and I feel a lot safer.”

Photo of Max Heidrick

“Certainly. You just have to follow the rules. I think since 9-11, the airlines are a lot more knowledgeable about what they are doing. I think everyone is more aware.”

Photo of Carol Wallace

“I would. I’m not flying, but I would. I’m a little more apprehensive because of the terrorists, but it wouldn’t stop me from flying.”

Comments

badger 9 years, 4 months ago

I find your statements very offensive. You are absolutely incorrect about the Koran, which says no such thing. You are confusing the actions of a radical few with the whole of a religion. Timothy McVeigh claimed to be a Christian and a patriot. Does this mean I would be correct to say that all Christians like to blow up buildings with daycare centers in them and kill children? No, it does not.

Attitudes like yours actually result in more terrorism, not less. Not all terrorists are Muslim, unless of course Tim McVeigh converted before death, and the Shining Path (Peruvian maoists), the IRA (Irish Catholics), Earth Liberation Front (American varied), the ULF (Irish Protestant), and the KKK (American varied, mostly Christian) are classified as Muslim groups. All those terrorist organizations have been active in the last 5 years, by the way. If I go back to the 80s I can find fifteen or so factions of the hardline Communists, none of which were Muslim. Not only are you a racist, you're a racist with bad data.

If you continue to make remarks advocating violence towards Muslims or any other group, I'll have to report them to the LJWorld. The user agreement specifically states that you agree "Not to upload, post, distribute, e-mail or otherwise publish or make available on the LJWorld.com's reader reaction any libelous, defamatory, obscene, harmful, vulgar, threatening, tortious, harassing, abusive, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially or ethnically objectionable, or otherwise illegal material."

For reference, your statements are ethnically objectionable. Advocating violence towards an ethnic group will not solve anything.

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mrcairo 9 years, 4 months ago

You say Dutch I say Danish whats the diff - the approach I love. ( you are correct I made a mistake ).

I stand by my remarks however. I believe any country who allows Muslims to enter are asking for it. They are a backwards people who embrace murder. The KORAN embraces Murder of any non-muslim. It's an OK thing to do. Especially if you chop off their head and make videos of it. And they just love to murder women, especially those who enter their countries to help them.

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Das_Ubermime 9 years, 4 months ago

I try not to fly anymore. Partially because I always get pulled out at checkpoints (could be the way I look, could just be bad luck), but also because I was in a bad car accident a year or two ago and have a dislodged bone in my nose which hasn't healed. The change in pressure puts a lot of pressure on my sinuses and with the dislodged bone in my nose, flying can be quite painful.

I don't think that it is accurate to compare Lulu to Hoofy. Hoofy was intentionally and successfully abrasive whereas Lulu was just... odd and harmless.

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Fangorn 9 years, 4 months ago

btw, our "coffee" group is meeting Sunday Dec. 5 at 7:00 pm, site TBD. Five people have signed up so far. If anyone else is interested, sign up at http://coffee.meetup.com/135/

For those who prefer to maintain anonymity, we'll enjoy the hot beverages for you and continue to see you on-line!

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Fangorn 9 years, 4 months ago

Since 9/11, I have flown more times than I care to remember. I usually feel safe, but because of the passengers not because of the "security" they've put in place. As someone pointed out above, anyone who stands up and begins yelling to the whole plane won't even get to the word "hi-jacking" before they are overwhelmed by passengers. In years past, doing nothing, keeping quiet was the surest way to survive a hi-jacking. Not anymore.

I'd feel a whole lot safer if the TSA would stop wasting resources pretending that everyone and anyone is equally at risk for being a terrorist. It simply amazes me to watch a 4-year-old child or Carmenilla's grandmother get jacked up the airport. I've been pulled aside so many times I'm considering bringing my own K-Y Jelly in case they ever decide to do a cavity search.

Now regarding those who post just to call names and bully, I hope they are aggressively pursued by the LJW. Some may call that censorship, but these people (left, right, wherever) add almost nothing to the forum but do manage to distract considerably. And although I think it might be amusing (in a Circus Maximus kind of way) to see a one-on-one Hoofy vs. Lulu forum, I don't think I've ever seen Lulu threaten anyone. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

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Bud Fuller 9 years, 4 months ago

hugs_and_kisses- No I don't proof read posts. Between poor typing skills and abuse of the english language I certainly need to do a review. I will start doing that tomorrow.

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badger 9 years, 4 months ago

Mrcairo:

I believe you have confused the Dutch and the Danes. Different group of blond people entirely.

As to the rest of your post, I certainly hope you were kidding. Otherwise, that's a pretty offensive and inaccurate thing to say.

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mrcairo 9 years, 4 months ago

Not all Muslims are Terrorists. But all Terrorists are Muslims. Racial profiling my arse.

I like the Denmark approach. Burn their mosques, kick their asses, and close immigration to muslims. Works for me. Perhaps the Muslims will perform a self-cleansing and rid themselves of the radicals.

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hugs_and_kisses 9 years, 4 months ago

Sorry, PigFarmer, I didn't mean to sound like a "smart alleck" in my last post. I'm not an expert at computers and I'm just curious how some people do the "stealthy things" that they do with computers, that's all! Have a great evening!

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hugs_and_kisses 9 years, 4 months ago

badger, if someone wanted to stay one step ahead of being banned by some web site or whatever, that person could conceivably just bounce around from computer to computer, like a computer at home, at work, at a friends house, at a coffee shop, the library, maybe a neighbors house, etc with each individual computer at each individual location having its own designated number. Am I right? I guess Pigfarmer is sugggesting that someone like hoofy may not have to go through all that trouble to "beat the censor". And I mean this with all due respect, PigFarmer, but do you proof read your posts before you send them? I ask, because I read your last post and it sort of made sense to me but it seems like you left out a few words here and there.

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Bud Fuller 9 years, 4 months ago

hugs_and_kisses

As badger mention it is not that difficult to spoof anyone IP address serious you want and it is even easier to find out everything you want about an owner of a URL.. I run a web site myself and if I gave you the name you can go to www.whois.com, but in my domain name click go, then at bottom of screen click whois lookup and there would be my name, address and phone number plus....

If you don't want to spoof there are web sites that act as a proxy for you.

Okay, sorry I will get off this subject. Well as for the law, they would have to active be tracing my activity to prove anything- unless I was dumb enough to admit!

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badger 9 years, 4 months ago

I'd imagine that first they just ban the username, and then they ban the IP address for repeat offenses.

See, the thing is, if we have reasonable evidence that hoofy is continuing, after banning, to harass these boards, we email LJW, and let them deal with it. If he's spoofing his IP, that actually potentially borders on fraud, and depending on how he spoofs it, can be a misdemeanor offense. They have his initial IP. That's enough to turn in to his ISP with allegations of harrassment. Once you collect a couple of those, combined with allegations of 'getting around' your IP address, your ISP may kick you. They have the right to do that. It's in the user agreement, and as certain of hoofy's comments can be classified under 'hate' regulations, they can kick him if they want just based on what he's said.

Having someone use your service to abuse others is a potential liability, and a lot of ISPs won't take that chance.

Now, Carmenilla et al, I do have one other point to make:

Without posting once, hoofy has managed to dominate today's conversation. I'd personally rather he wasn't able to do that quite so easily. Perhaps the course of wisdom might be to simply wait for him to spew, get him banned, then go on as if nothing has happened?

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hugs_and_kisses 9 years, 4 months ago

I have traveled by air many times since 9-11 and I have always felt safe. Although, I have only flown domestically, so I don't know if that makes any difference! Sure, I have had to endure long lines and such at various airports, but that was a while ago. Things seem to be going smoother as we get further and further away from 9-11. Although, at this time of year, flying is a hassle because so many people are traveling, so there's bound to be long lines at whatever airport you're going through! Pigfarmer, about hoofy, if he was banned from posting on this page, then I do believe that hoofy's IP number from his home computer must be denied access, otherwise how else can a person be banned effectively? Changing one's name isn't enough to sneak past the censors. The only choice that banned person would have as far as posting here is concerned would be to use another computer, either at work or at some coffee shop or library. Are you suggesting that you know how to circumvent the IP number denied access strategy? That sounds interesting! Do tell! Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!!

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Carmenilla 9 years, 4 months ago

Point of view is one thing but Hoofy was a big bully. He made it almost impossible to have any kind of real debate/dialogue on here. I agree they are only words but he took online harrassment to a new level. He was like an annoying pop-up ad you couldn't click away. Things are much more enjoyable on here now. Unless you like to see people squirm, that is. If you're into childish temper tantrums, then by all means, get Hoofy back in here! He has so much valuable hatred to contribute.

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badger 9 years, 4 months ago

Speaking of Lulu, isn't it funny that she vanished just about the time Hoofy got his last ban?

Funny how every time he goes away, she disappears for a day or so...maybe they share computers at the library?

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Bud Fuller 9 years, 4 months ago

Sticks and stones, Carmenilla. Sticks and stones. Like I said earlier I am a conservative, but I also enjoyed Lulu's comments. She was entitiled to her point of view just like I'm entitled to mine. Not only that, but Lulu was always good for a laugh.

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badger 9 years, 4 months ago

The argument, "Well, the terrorists who hijack planes are Middle Eastern males," is all about horses and barn doors for me. The Russian hijackers were women.

I blundered onto an ELF site about a year back that had the WTC at the top with the text, "Think Big" imprinted behind them. Just because the ecoterrorists have thus far stuck to spiking trees, burning resorts, setting crops on fire (to protest genetically engineered seed), and leaving explosives outside of research labs (Chiron, Northern California, 2003) doesn't mean they'll keep on doing it that way.

When we make our rules based on what's 'known to be the pattern' that allows groups to predict where they'll find holes in the policy. We don't do enough threat assessment.

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Carmenilla 9 years, 4 months ago

Unfortunate spelling error there, Pig Farmer. I must ask you why you would support someone like Hoofy? If he were a Liberal terrorizing (bear with my verb, folks) this forum would you be so supportive? If he were constantly badgering you to the point of personal insults would you be so tolerant? I find your support of a jacka** like Hoofy very telling. Isn't this forum better off without him? I don't miss Lulu or Jimmy Olsen that much either and we shared some viewpoints.

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Bud Fuller 9 years, 4 months ago

I have spent considerable time in Central and South America and it is one of the friendliest places I have ever been. If fact in a couple of years I may be living in Central America. No, not because of the elections. I am far to the right and happy with the outcome.

Been on 8 - 10 trips since 9-11-2001 and am not worried about terrorist. No matter if you drive around the block or fly around the world you need to be ready for something unplanned to happen. I have noticed that all airports seem to have different levels of security. I don't see any problems with profiling passengers as the terrorist pretty much come from one location. Many times I have to take my shoes off and have then x-rayed, always pull the laptop out and sometimes turn it on, same for cell phone, pull out all the SCUBA regulators to be examined. I sometimes spend 10 minutes packing up and getting dressed. No problem, the more security the better.

Once in Honduras they didn't even have the thing you walk through plugged in to the electricity. Everyone walked through it and two guards with M16s, but not plugged in.

I do believe a determined terrorist will hijack another plan someday, who knows what they will do?

Actually as I end this reminds me of a trip to DC in Oct on us air, they make everyone take off shoes in KC, DC and Charlottesville.

Yes I still kike Hoofy and if he talked to me I could show him how to post messages that looked like they came from LJWorld. No one would know any diff.

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ive_got_my_ascot_n_my_dickie 9 years, 4 months ago

Regarding racial profiling, I agree that it is difficult to identify domestic terrorists based on looks. Let's face it, members of E.L.F. or any other domestic terrorist group could blend into an every day street scene. Plane hijackers, however, typically have similar demographic characteristics: male, Middle Eastern, between ages 18-30. It's sad that profiling is used but, if I was a male Middle Easterner, I'd be angry at the hijackers for causing all eyes to be upon me whenever I took a flight merely because of my ethnic background.

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Bud Fuller 9 years, 4 months ago

Personally, I have enjoyed reading Ferd-Burfel's (AKA Hoofy) comments on this forum. Some of you must have really thin skin . . .

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badger 9 years, 4 months ago

I agree the profiling doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Besides singling out people like you and your family because you've got darker skin and tagging you with the 'potential criminal' label for no reason but your ancestry, racial profiling would miss the Timothy McVeighs, the David Koreshes, and the Columbine kids.

I think we've got a very divided country right now, and there are a lot of very angry people who feel that the conservatives, the liberals, the corporations, the entertainment industry, whatever bugbear they choose, is destroying everything. I'm more afraid every day that one or more of these people will decide that the system is broken so it's time to incite radical change, and blow something up or start shooting people.

Sadly, my biggest objection to racial profiling is that it just won't catch homegrown terrorists, and I'm more concerned about those right now than al Qaeda. I should be more outraged at the racial prejudices it implies, but instead I find myself too worried about the threats it misses. I have a good deal of certainty that if a Middle Eastern man started hanging around the state capitol taking pictures and drawing diagrams, he'd be picked up for questioning. However, a blond girl dressed as an art student with a sketchpad and a digital camera taking pics for her 'senior project'? Not so much.

We have two known, active terrorist groups training people on American soil to attack American interests in the US. They've already committed terrorist acts, and killed people. If their entire membership walked down the streets of any city in the country in blue jeans and T-shirts, no one would bat an eye.

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ms_canada 9 years, 4 months ago

I was in Newfoundland on 9/11/01. Had to fly home on 9/21. Was not afraid then and not afraid now, although I would think twice about when and where to fly. As for no air attacks since 9/11 as someone up above said, I heard something interesting one day while driving. An interview with, can't remember his name, but it was about terrorist attacks and what kind of attack would have the greatest influence on the US people as mrcairo says above that they 'have shot their wad'. They would probably not attempt this kind of attack again. This interview was just after the attack and murder of the school in Chechnya. Did any of you know that this school was a christian school in a christian enclave in a predominantly muslim country? The question this man posed to the interviewer was, "what do you think would be the fear level of americans if some terrorists in balaclavas raided a school in rural Montana and killed a couple hundred kids?" That got my attention. Would anyone out there like to hazard a guess what the level would be?

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Carmenilla 9 years, 4 months ago

I've flown at least a dozen times since 9-11. All the flights went smoothly and safely but the real commonality they had was that I was pulled out of line every time to have a "closer" inspection done. I am of mixed race and my nationality is hard to figure out but inevitably I am picked out of line to be looked over with scrutiny. Sadly, my mother and 88 yr. old grandmother have been singled out over and over again too. When the three of us went on a plane together they pulled the three of us out of line for shoe inspection. I mean there were mostly white folks in line and the three "brown" people get pulled. We're not Middle Eastern but that didn't matter. And whats scarier still is that there was a guy on the flight who looked totally sketchy and like he was on drugs and they didn't even check his bag! I did feel some major indignation over that. It sucks to feel profiled. Its like getting followed around a store when you have $100 in your pocket to spend. I feel safe on flights but definately persecuted for my undetermined race. And as for Hoofy, his return would mark a sad day for all of us who have made this forum liveable again. If he has to go to the library to log on than he is truly not the person he says he is. No 40 yr old man with kids would be desperate enough to harrass people online that he would go to such lengths to post on here. Hoofy is a bully and a liar! He will bring nothing of value to this forum.

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badger 9 years, 4 months ago

r_u, I didn't think I was saying anything about image problems for the US or whether people like us or not.

Could it be ascot you meant, not me?

I will say that most of the South Americans I've met think we're charmingly repressed about 'personal matters', overly fastidious about a little dirt, and obsessed with our cars. They don't hate us, but they're a little amused by us.

The Africans I've met have lately just said, "You know, what I think is that Americans are just a little too self-absorbed. You're more worried about your public image when you visit Africa than you are about Africa's problems."

In both cases, it's a fair, yet not terribly flattering, assessment, I think.

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remember_username 9 years, 4 months ago

I've done quite a bit of flying since 9/11 - and I've never felt safe. But that is because I have an "irrational" fear of flying. Knowing that the fear is irrational means that I just deal with it and get on the plane anyway. I hate the getting there but I love other places too much to stop.

Badger is right about the anti-American semtiments, at least in Europe and the Far East. I've traveled all over Europe and the Pac Rim and I've never had any anti-American experiences. Anybody, care to comment on South America or Africa? Even other areas of the Middle East? Seems to me to be a more interesting question to discuss.

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Hi_Jinks 9 years, 4 months ago

Well, we haven't had a "9/11-like episode" in over three years, so I believe that our skies are safe. I'd feel safe flying this holiday season.

Now, as far as our nation's buses and trains go......Hmmm.....

C'mon, mrcairo......Children may be reading this site!

Be careful with your choice of "euphemisms"!

And speaking of children.......

I see that a former poster who claims to be 40 years old with children of his own is back once more! (Friday 11/19 3:46pm) Now he goes by the name "Ferd Burfel". Uh-oh!

Thank heavens for free Internet use at the local public library, eh, hoofy? Oops! I mean "Ferd"!

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Libcon 9 years, 4 months ago

Whenever all four people agree, and I agree with them, you know the question is ridiculous. Airplanes are safe, yes they crash but they are overall safe.

I do not like how the world has become so dependent on them, as I am a sucker for the old horse and buggy days.

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badger 9 years, 4 months ago

I've flown a lot since 9-11. I don't worry about terrorists any more than I did beforehand. As in most things, I try to have a healthy level of concern, stay alert, and think beforehand how I would handle a difficult situation.

I disgree that there will not be more terrorist attacks on air travel. I think I'd be a lot more happy about the airline industry in general if they started using planes with sealed cockpits, inaccessible from the passenger cabin. It's nearly impossible to be 100% sure you will stop a determined person from getting explosives on board a plane to blow it out of the air, but it's relatively easy to stop him from getting control of the plane to make people do what he wants.

As to my own travel this season, flight would be pointless. The family members I'll be having T-day and Christmas celebrations with are all within 100 miles. The friends I'll be celebrating Yule with all live in KC or Lawrence. No real point to flying.

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ive_got_my_ascot_n_my_dickie 9 years, 4 months ago

I, too have flown many times since 9/11, including four trips overseas. Anyone stupid enough to try to enter the cockpit these days would soon find himself being bum-rushed by a group of angry passengers. People that avoid air travel because they're afraid are only short-changing themselves. Get a passport and see some different cultures. It's a big beautiful world out there. Don't believe the myth that everyone hates Americans. They may hate Bush, but as long as you're cool to them, they'll be cool to you.

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mrcairo 9 years, 4 months ago

I've flown about 50 times since 9-11. It's a no-brainer. The terrorists shot-their-wad on this deal. It'll never happen again. Great Political Tool tho don't ya think?

But really now, traveling around the country on Holiday is for amatuers.

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