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Should the city’s zoning codes govern Kansas University’s building projects?

Asked at Hastings, 1900 W. 23rd St. on November 19, 2004

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Photo of Janell Shoemaker

“I would say yes. In order to grow as a city, you have to include every part of it. The university shouldn’t be an exception.”

Photo of Paul Kramer

“No. I think the campus should be a separate entity.”

Photo of Renee Decock

“Yes. That’s people, property and neighborhoods. The university shouldn’t just be able to do whatever they want.”

Photo of Gene Tyner

“Well it’s part of the city, so they have to follow the rules of the community they are in.”


Libcon 13 years, 3 months ago

nicegirl, you may be correct, but at least it is something. BTW where is Lulu?

Libcon 13 years, 3 months ago

Fred, Censorship, left wing? Hmm...something wrong with that?

Try censorship, "The Shrub," as our dear friend Lulu liked to say.

lunacydetector 13 years, 3 months ago

When will K.U. stop discriminating against Lawrence residents and start offering accelerated evening courses for working adults, instead of only offering them in their fast expanding Kansas City campus?

When will K.U. make the campus more handicapped accessible?

and my answer to the question of the day is....obviously k.u. controls this town anyway, so it is a waste of time to debate.

Fangorn 13 years, 3 months ago

I'm inclined to say that as part of the Lawrence community the University needs to be subject to the same rules and ordinances. On the other hand when the local desots pass a complete ban on fireworks and a ban on smoking that treads all over private property rights, maybe a little civil disobedience is occasionally necessary.

[2:39 a.m., lunacydetector?! When do you sleep?]

lunacydetector 13 years, 3 months ago

i only require 4-5 hours and i am as fresh as a daisy.

mrcairo 13 years, 3 months ago

KU runs this town. Everything revolves around KU. Sad but true. Without KU Lawrence would be another Eudora or worse. That being what it is KU resides withing the city limits, and should be subject to the rules and regulations.

Question about the KU Cops. What is their jurisdiction? I see them pulling people over all the time on Naismith and 19th. What gives?

Libcon 13 years, 3 months ago

I will not offer a response to this half-hearted question. For further notice it is not K.U., but KU.

badger 13 years, 3 months ago

I understand about it being a state entity. Are state buildings elsewhere subject to city building codes? Do, say, the KDOT offices have to conform to city regulations? If the University wants to declare itself a separate city, then I think it can be immune from Lawrence building codes (and our fire departments, and our cops helping them direct traffic after games, and our post office, and, and, and...). But they're part of the city, so they should follow the city's rules.

Coffee/cocoa/bagel info one page back for those interested.

ms_canada 13 years, 3 months ago

I am going to go off topic again. Listen guys, if anyone gets really cheesed at me for going off topic, please indicate and I will cease and desist. But here goes. Did anyone catch CSI(Las Vegas) last nite. Following on the heels of the question (re Trans-sexuals) the other day. I had some gremlins in my machine and was unable to post on that. But, had a thought. Hypothetical situation: John is surgically altered and is now Jane. Meets David and they fall in love. Wish to marry, the law says no. BUT - if Jane petitions the court and is legally declared female, would it then be against the law for her to marry a woman? Someone touched on this point the other day. The whole question hinges on the legality of her sexual identity. Another quick word, I am a nurse and worked for a time in a psychiatric facility and encountered that strange anomaly; hermaphroditism. (having both male and female sex organs) It was a truly sad case. Not able to fit into society in a normal way, "she" retreated inside herself and could not be consoled. Like it or not, severe accidents of birth do occur and these poor souls are the more to be pitied and given the utmost sympathy and love. Not reviled and made fun of. Any effort to afford them as normal a life as possible is to be commended. Everyone needs love. Remember now, if you are cheesed at me getting off topic, please say so.

lunacydetector 13 years, 3 months ago

i think the city's zoning codes governing Kansas University's (K.U. for those who might get confused) building projects should hinge on how many transexuals go to K.U.

Fangorn 13 years, 3 months ago

Why, FlakeyT? Are you lactose-intolerant?

Libcon is right. This is a "half-hearted" question. Tuesday's question was more substantive. And in the interest of keeping today's forum separate from Tuesday's, I'm going to post my remarks on that day's forum. Ms_canada, I had wondered why you weren't posting that day.

[badger got a group set up for us. Sign up to join us at

Robin 13 years, 3 months ago

I don't comment often but very much enjoy the daily back and forth, and have a feeling that most people who post here are pretty decent human beings all in all.

I'm wondering if a relative non-poster such as myself would be welcome in the coffee/cocoa group? I'd love to play guess the neo-con and pin the tail on the liberal. I'm sure there are others who are also interested.

Hi_Jinks 13 years, 3 months ago

I'm glad HK Phooey mentioned that KU cops are actually "real police officers", because they are!----So don't mess with them! Too many people are under the illusion that KU cops are just some " nine dollar an hour security guys". Not true!

As far as old houses go.....if one can be saved (and presumably restored), then I'm all for it.---Like the home near the campus that was relocated this past spring.

Once a one hundred year old home is torn down....that's it! It is gone for good! An old home here, an old home there.....pretty soon it starts to add up! I think that many of the homes in the north part of town definitely have a charm to them, and I'm glad to see that many of them are well-preserved.

Though Lawrence is largely a college town, it is also a city rich in history....and part of its history/charm are many of those older homes that still stand today!

Carmenilla 13 years, 3 months ago

I don't get the whole "gay agenda" thing. Is it an agenda to be allowed the same rights as others? Is it an agenda when people want to be less of a stereotype and more of a person? If the gay agenda were so prevelant than maybe we would see less gay-bashing and hatred. Instead, people think that having "Will & Grace" on TV is promoting the homosexual lifestyle. To me that show is nothing more than stereotypical nonsense. Maybe when they show a gay couple trying to raise their adopted biracial baby despite intolerance and ignorance, we can talk about the human side of this issue. But instead, we are continuing to perpetuate the "dandy" image as if all gay men are so obvious. Consumer1 no one in this society is encouraging our children to be gay or question their sexuality. If there are groups that support people as they try to figure out their sexuality, then more power to them! What I don't want to see happen is more repression and intolerance. We have enough of tha already even with this "gay agenda" that is "everywhere"!!! Okay, no more quotations...I'm done.

Hong_Kong_Phooey 13 years, 3 months ago

Alright, now that I've gone to the bother of completing the free registration...

First, regarding 'consumer1' and 'mrcairo''s comments about KU Cops. The cops up at KU are certified police officers that have spent 14 weeks at the State's law enforcement training center. They are not employee's of the parking department. In fact, they really don't even deal with parking screw-ups at all, unless the car is parked in a handicapped space, fire lane or has broken one of the city's ordinances on a city street. Their jurisdiction is anywhere in the state that KU has property and the area immediately adjacent to that. So, 'mrcairo', 19th & Naismith falls into that classification. What will really get your goat is when you get pulled over by one of them at 15th & Wakarusa. (yes, KU has property out there)

Second, the zoning thing. I don't really care one way or the other, but I do find it amusing how all of these people get upset over the University knocking down some old houses or building a new building. I mean, if it weren't for the University, this town wouldn't have half the residents it currently does(I'm not referring to current students with this)! The majority of people you encounter in this city are either dropouts or graduates of the University who just did not, or could not, leave. As far as knocking down some old houses goes - big deal! Just b/c a house is somewhat old, it doesn't mean it should be preserved for all time. Lawrence likes to think of itself as a cozy, little town w/o all the big trappings of urban life. A real life "Mayberry". The truth is that Lawrence is quickly turning into a large city and some things are going to have to change. Obviously, they decided to start that change with housing costs. You want to talk about ridiculous! This ain't New York City, but housing owners like to charge like it is...

At least my diversion away from the main topic wasn't as ridiculous as 'ms_canada'. need to get some offline friends if you have to always change topic.

Fangorn 13 years, 3 months ago

Hong Kong Phooey- you're apparently somewhat new to this forum, so I want to offer you some information that will help keep things in context. You called ms_canada's off-topic comments "ridiculous". You do her an injustice. She is from Alberta and happened across this forum one day while trying to learn more about (excuse me, "aboot") our Electoral College system. Since then she has been a frequent and thoughtful poster. Yes, her remarks today referred back to Tuesday's discussion, but she was unable to join us that day and had something relevant to add to that discussion. The participation of someone from outside the Lawrence area is a tremendous asset to this forum. Some of her other "diversions" (hockey, for instance) were attempts to establish common interests and nurture a stronger connection with us "southerners". And if someone begins a post (as she did) by saying "This is off-topic, but:", just skip that section. And really, we almost never stay strictly on-topic anyway. What kind of real conversation ever does?

Carmenilla 13 years, 3 months ago

I have to say that the civility of these recent posts have given me some faith in our little forum. I am so pleased that we are having rational debates and an open exchange of information now. It is waaaay more satisfying than the name-calling and bullying that went on before. Thank you all for attepting some humanity on here.

Oh and before I get any crap for it, I'll answer today's question. What was it again? Kidding......

nicegirl 13 years, 3 months ago

Just made it on today. It's been busy! As for the Ku question, yes they should follow the same zoning codes. And to Consumer1: Without going over everything that I said on Tuesday, I agree with you that everyone has a need to be loved. My personal opinion however is that marriage is strictly between a man and a woman. I view marriage as a sacred covenant designed by God. I know that not many others here agree with me on this. I could pull many examples of this from the Bible (though I know that the Bible can be interpreted any direction you want it to go). I too consider myself a conservative, but I think that I am further to the right than you are. I also realize I am a definite minority here when it comes to my religion and faith in God so I am fully prepared for the flack that will follow this.....

nicegirl 13 years, 3 months ago

P.S. I signed up for our meeting group!

Carmenilla 13 years, 3 months ago

Yes, the problems of this society are overwhelming. But I fear that intolerance to the extreme on either side will only produce more division and hatred. I too think TV is utter crap and I blame it for a lot of our societal ills. As far as gender confusion goes, there are probably as many people that would like to deprogram homosexuals as convert them to that lifestyle. I think that either way, its manipulation and both sides have a part in the tumultuous climate of today.

nicegirl 13 years, 3 months ago

I do not agree with trying to "deprogram" homosexuals. I don't want to come across as homophobic. I have many friends and family members who are gay and I love them the same as any other friend or family member. I am not uncomfortable with their lifestyle. I simply don't agree with same sex marriage. However, I do think that if you spend your life with someone, regardless of either parties sex you should be entitled to leave your death benefits to them as well as provide health care benefits for them. This is not the same issue as marriage or civil unions.

There is definitely alot of crap on TV these days. My programming choices are really pretty limited. We watch the Disney Channel alot. I don't let my son watch anything with violence or bad language. Only cartoons he can learn from. We also watch Food Network, which he actually likes better than cartoons which is strange for a 1 year old. I figure the worse thing that will happen is he will grow up loving to cook. That way when I am old, he can care for me!

nicegirl 13 years, 3 months ago

I think that I can accept civil unions, but I don't think that same sex couples should be allowed to marry in a church and in my eyes, it will never be okay. I realize that these are my views and it isn't my place to judge others and my idea of ethical doesn't necessarily jive with someone elses. If it comes to a vote, I will always vote against it.

remember_username 13 years, 3 months ago

I have been sitting here for some time racking my brains thinking about the K.U. zoning issue and I simply cannot come up with anything inspired to say on the subject. It is fun to take part in these posts, but on today's subject I have nothing to say. Didn't stop me though - did it?

Carmenilla 13 years, 3 months ago

God I love the Food Network! Hey it sounds like you have a buddng chef, nicegirl. Lucky you.....

I'm curious though. Do you feel like civil unions are a bad idea? Do you think that gay marriage will change hetero marriage somehow? And death benefits and mutual health insurance are an integral part of this issue. You sound like you want homosexuals to be treated equally but than the Bible tells you they can't marry. What does your heart tell you?

Carmenilla 13 years, 3 months ago

But you can get married places other than a church, nicegirl. Think City Hall. Jonas brought to light recently that marriage is not necessarily a religious convention. In fact, it is a contract between you and the state. We only make it religious when we take it to church. I guarantee you if they were allowed to marry, homosexuals would not be flocking to churches for the ceremony. They know that they are not really welcome in the Christian world. Maybe those churches that are gay friendly would marry them but the reality is that when we dismiss their claim to the same rights we have, than they will probably never get those well-deserved health insurance and death benefits' rights you were talking about them. A constitutional amendment against gay marriage would be the first in step in treating them as "unequal". What rights would be eroded next? In Russia they have political candidates that want a death penalty imposed for those caught in homosexual acts. Is that what we want?

Libcon 13 years, 3 months ago

I know it may not seem a very big deal to some, but as a graduate of the University of Kansas it pains me to see people type K.U., it is KU. I know it is picky but it's like spelling names wrong.

thank you

nicegirl 13 years, 3 months ago

I realize that you can get married in places other than a church. I was married first by a judge and then we had our marriage blessed in a church. If you are not married in a church, it is not a valid union in the eyes of God which is why I said that I would not necessarily be opposed to civil unions, just religious ceremonies to join same sex couples. I think that the word "marriage" is what causes a majority of Americans to oppose unions. Whether most citizens of Lawrence agree or not, most Americans in some way consider themselves religious or believe in God. That is why it will be very difficult to avoid a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. There isn't enough time or space for me to get into the reasons that it is not possible to fully separate church and state, which is what would have to happen for gay marriage to be allowed. Maybe I can discuss it further in our coffee group.

Consumer1: I didn't think you were left, just maybe not as far right as me. I can tell by your posts that we agree on many subjects.

nicegirl 13 years, 3 months ago

Whoever keeps writing KU as K.U. please stop. It is annoying Libcon. :)

nicegirl 13 years, 3 months ago

And by the way Libcon, K.U. is not as annoying as those who call it Kansas University instead of University of Kansas.

Carmenilla 13 years, 3 months ago

Agreed.....Also, thanks for the thoughtful debate on the gay marriage thang. I appreciate and respect others opinions when they're not being crammed down my throat or pushed in my face. Amazing what a little civility can do, huh?

Libcon 13 years, 3 months ago

nicegirl I agree 100%, and the LJW is one of the guilty parties.

nicegirl 13 years, 3 months ago

This probably will be the only thing that Libcon will ever agree on!

Carmenilla: Absolutely. I think we have finally weeded out all the ones that think name calling and harassment is the way to go. Now all we have left is people that can hold a civil discussion. It makes it far more enjoyable for everyone.

Carmenilla 13 years, 3 months ago

Yeh for us! I was beginning to think that it was impossible to post an opinion without getting berated and heckled. I mean we don't even harrass Lulu that much because we know it ain't worth it. Have a good weekend everybody!

missmagoo 13 years, 3 months ago

for the last time LJW- it is not KANSAS UNIVERSITY. it is the UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS.

campus security is a joke.

i hope tomorrows topic will be more relatve--guess they can't figure out what to talk about since the election's over.

Fangorn 13 years, 3 months ago

Fred, I've only been posting regularly for a few weeks. So I don't know what previous monikers you've used or what you've posted. What causes you to believe you're being censored? If you've been booted from the forum before, did the LJW give you a reason? nicegirl and I would probably debate which of us is more right-wing, and I don't think either of us is at risk of being censored. They've even published several of my letters-to-the editor (one very recently). The term "censorship" gets used a lot for actions that don't qualify, and conversely not used in many instances that would. I'm just curious to know what you view as censorship.

nicegirl- there's bound to be the occasional outburst from one side or the other. But if we simply continue to uphold standards of civility, those who post merely to provoke rather than to discuss will begin to feel unwelcome. Hopefully they'll just change the way they post (their attitude, not their views) rather than refrain from posting.

nicegirl 13 years, 3 months ago

I take back my remark about the obnoxious people being gone. Darn!

jonas 13 years, 3 months ago

Fred, or the poster formerly known as Hoof-hearted: They zapped you because you attacked people and tried to hurt their feelings deliberately. Note, please, that I personally could care less, but there is no doubt that you're conduct caused complaints, so the LJWorld took action to please the people that don't cause problems, by getting rid of the one who consistently did. If you were 40, with kids (hahahahahahahaha) you would realize that. Liberal conspiracy, psshhhh.

jonas 13 years, 3 months ago

that is, of course, your conduct, not you're conduct

Speedy308 13 years, 1 month ago

Test .....test......."Is this thing ON??????????"

Wow, I just found this with a 'Google' search.......LOL!

I really like Renee's hair that way....longer. She's grown into a very beautiful woman.

I'm really proud of her, and love her very much!!!!!!


Dad Houston, Texas

ms_canada 13 years, 3 months ago

well here goes again. are you gremlins still in there?

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