Archive for Tuesday, August 15, 2017

Combative Trump insists anew: Blame both sides for violence

President Donald Trump speaks to the media in the lobby of Trump Tower in New York, Tuesday, Aug. 15, 2017. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)

President Donald Trump speaks to the media in the lobby of Trump Tower in New York, Tuesday, Aug. 15, 2017. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)

August 15, 2017, 3:45 p.m. Updated August 15, 2017, 5:09 p.m.

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— Combative and insistent, President Donald Trump declared anew Tuesday "there is blame on both sides" for the deadly violence last weekend in Charlottesville, Virginia, appearing to once again equate the actions of white supremacist groups and those protesting them.

The president's comments effectively wiped away the more conventional statement he delivered at the White House a day earlier when he branded members of the KKK, neo-Nazis and white supremacists who take part in violence as "criminals and thugs."

Trump's advisers had hoped those remarks might quell a crush of criticism from both Republicans and Democrats. But the president's retorts Tuesday suggested he had been a reluctant participant in that cleanup effort.

During an impromptu press conference in the lobby of his Manhattan skyscraper, he praised his original response to the Charlottesville clashes and angrily blamed liberal groups in addition to white supremacist for the violence. Some of those protesting the rally to save a statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee were "also very violent," he said.

"There are two sides to a story," he said. He added that some facts about the violence still aren't known.

His remarks were welcomed by former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, who tweeted: "Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth."

Trump's handling of the weekend violence has raised new and troubling questions, even among some supporters, about why he sometimes struggles to forcefully and unequivocally condemn white supremacist groups. Members of his own Republican Party have pressured him to be more vigorous in criticizing bigoted groups, and four business leaders have resigned from a White House jobs panel in response to his comments.

Democrats were aghast at Trump's comments Tuesday. Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine said on Twitter that the Charlottesville violence "was fueled by one side: white supremacists spreading racism, intolerance & intimidation. Those are the facts." Sen. Brian Schatz of Hawaii said on Twitter that he no longer views Trump as his president.

"As a Jew, as an American, as a human, words cannot express my disgust and disappointment," Schatz said. "This is not my president."

Violence broke out Saturday in Charlottesville, a picturesque college town, after a loosely connected mix of white nationalists, neo-Nazis and other far-right extremists assembled to protest the city's decision to remove a towering statue of Confederate general Robert E. Lee. Heather Heyer, 32, was killed when a man plowed his car into a crowd of counter-protesters.

Trump appeared to defend both the extremists' right to protest, noting they had a permit, and Confederate statues.

"So, this week it's Robert E. Lee," he said. "I noticed that Stonewall Jackson's coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week and is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You really do have to ask yourself where does it stop?"

As Trump talked, his aides on the sidelines of the lobby stood in silence. Chief of staff John Kelly crossed his arms and stared down at his shoes, barely glancing at the president. Press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders looked around the room trying to make eye contact with other senior aides. One young staffer stood with her mouth agape.

When asked to explain his Saturday comments about Charlottesville, Trump looked down at his notes and again read a section of his initial statement that denounced bigotry but did not single out white supremacists. He then tucked the paper back into his jacket pocket.

Trump, who has quickly deemed other deadly incidents in the U.S. and around the world acts of terrorism, waffled when asked whether the car death was a terrorist attack.

"There is a question. Is it murder? Is it terrorism?" Trump said. "And then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer and what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing."

Trump said he had yet to call Heyer's mother, said that he would soon "reach out." He praised her for what he said was a nice statement about him on social media.

As Trump finally walked away from his lectern, he stopped to answer one more shouted question: Would he visit Charlottesville? The president's response was to note that he owned property there and to say it was one of the largest wineries in the United States.

Comments

Fred Whitehead Jr. 4 months ago

Are you proud Kansas?? Are you really proud that you voted for this Nazi sympathizer?? Are you proud that you turned the reins of sane government over to this despicable debauched, incompetent, fool?? Are you happy with the government you are now getting from this unelected, illegitimate idiot??

I know the "Bobs" must be......Chump called out "liberals" a favorite label of their rants in this form.

I am so sick of this damnable fool that I can hardly function. How in Heavens name could so many of you be fooled and flummoxed by this idiot??.

They just said on CNN..... (a real and reliable news source) "The REAL president Trump came forward today" Are you proud?? Do we really have a legitimate "Commander in Chief"??

Justin Hoffman 4 months ago

"....I can hardly function". Yah Fred, we have noticed.

Greg Cooper 4 months ago

Damn it, Justin, for once say something intelligent. That you support this bigot is sad, but that you cannot defend your own brand of bigotry is downright stupid. Why in heaven's name are you for Chump and his anti-American "agenda"?

Andrew Applegarth 3 months, 4 weeks ago

I wouldn't say that Justin supports Fred just because he agreed with Fred's assessment of his own mental deficiencies...

Laura Wilson 4 months ago

Not reported here is that he also said there were good people on both sides.

No, wrong, there are NO good Nazis, Neo-Nazis, White Supremists and Fascists.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 4 months ago

And what's weird there are some who hate that his daughter is married to a Jew.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 4 months ago

"Truth" and "Trump" are a million miles apart. Glad to see your support of these groups.

Daniel Kennamore 4 months ago

So, in your mind murder and knocking over a statue are moral equivalents?

Fred Whitehead Jr. 4 months ago

I have said it time and again.....Read the books....Read the books........"The Nightmare Years"......"The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" (definition of "Third Reich".......Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler)

Written by William Shirer who was there to witness the takeover of the country with the approval of the people by the Nazi government and Adolf Hitler.

"Those who do not remember the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them". "Those who DO NOT remember the lessons of history are DOOMED to REPEAT them"

Calvin Anders 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Hey Bob, I think the Nazis at the march tipped the Goodwin flag first. Bringing up Hitler when discussing Nazis is not really bringing any hyperbole to the party (pun intended). But it is great to see you getting in the mix here Bob and defending those poor, innocent Nazis. Way to stick up for the oppressed.

Calvin Anders 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Now I've got this image in my head of early 1940's Germany with all these SS officers running around invoking Goodwin's law when anyone mentions Hitler.

Steve Hicks 3 months, 3 weeks ago

LOLOLO ! Good one, Calvin. (Now I've got that image in my head too.)

Daniel Kennamore 4 months ago

I honestly can't decide which is worse, that we have a nazi apologist as president or that people support him for being one.

Steve Jacob 4 months ago

I kind of defended his comments on Saturday has him being dumb and not intended to sound racist, and his comments on Monday being better, even if a couple of days late. But he undid all of that and worse today. I saw the whole thing live, and was waiting for someone on his staff to usher him out before he dug a deeper hole, but he kept on going.

He is a very weak president with no power or friends right now, and we are facing a possible government shutdown and a debt ceiling limit this fall.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 4 months ago

I thought Trump had a lot of money. Couldn't he just by all these statues of the traitors and create a nice little park for his Nazi friends. Somewhere far, far away. Maybe an island.

This is how our representative democracy works. We elect officials to represent us. The mayor and city commission in Charlottesville voted to remove the statue. Most of Charlottesville agree with that. There has been a lawsuit, and I would be thrilled if they took a vote to see what the majority of the city wants, but that's not really how it works, is it? But it's none of my business what they do with their statues. I don't live there. Neither do the vast majority of the Nazis who attended this gathering. Most of the counter protesters were students at the University and live in the city.

Bob Summers 4 months ago

Why didn't the White guys bring baseball bats like the Blacks guys did?

The White guys were not prepared at all.

Why isn't the Democrat party disbanded? They created the KKK.

Robert Byrd was a grand wizard. Why isn't highways and buildings named after him torn down?

Why are congenital Liberal's hypocrites?

Fred Whitehead Jr. 4 months ago

Bob........... Why is every post you make focused on "congenital liberal's hypocrites"? Do you not have anything else besides this stupid mantra??Do you have any other ignorant and invalid reasons to post??

Greg Cooper 4 months ago

Why do you not reread your own pet theory and try to understand the whole thing? Are you incapable of grasping an entire theory and relating it to reality?

Bob Summers 3 months, 4 weeks ago

..and another science denier...

Iceland is eliminating fetus with down syndrome. A genetic condition.

Greg Cooper 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Wow, Bob, that's totally interesting and even more non-responsive. You really haven't a clue as to what the science behind this is, do you?

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Why did the white guys bring shields, sticks, automatic weapons? The Charlottesville police kept their distance, because the white guys had more fire power. I'll be that won't happen next time.

Brock Masters 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Dot you're lying. There were no automatic weapons. Prove me wrong otherwise you're lying.

Ken Lassman 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Oh, you mean that since many people brought semi-automatic weapons, many with expanded magazines, instead of fully automatic weapons, that everyone was so much safer???

Brock Masters 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Ken, did I say that? I said Dorthiry was lying when she said they came with automatic weapons. It is a lie - or do you contend they did have automatic weapons?

Did anyone fire a weapon? Did the protesters even have semi-automatic weapons with extended magazines? Where is your proof or are you lying too?

Brock Masters 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Thanks for the link. Appears both sides had semi-automatic weapons. Ken was right and Dot was wrong. How typical.

Mark Pickerel 3 months, 3 weeks ago

Virginia is a Stand Your Ground state with loose open carry laws. I'm surprised more people weren't killed.

Greg Cooper 4 months ago

Bob, again with the "they did it so I can, too" babble. If you truly want those things fixed, then get started doing it. The truth is that your nonsensical inequivalencies do nothing to further anything resembling American ideals. I'm really interested in how you support Chump, Bannon, and everyone else who fosters bigotry in the name of democracy. How do you explain it?

Calvin Anders 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Bob, this is some world class misdirection here. Democrats are not the subject here. We are talking about Trump's conciliatory tone towards Nazis and his attempt to vilify those who protested against Nazis. It wasn't Robert Byrd marching against Nazis last week in Charlottesville. I didn't see any Hillary Clinton campaign signs. In fact, I would guess that a large number of the counter protesters consider the mainstream of the Democratic party to be too conservative. The big hypocrisy I see is Republicans (other than Trump himself) trying to distance themselves from white supremacists when they helped create the environment in which these groups feel comfortable expressing their message of hate and violence.

Michael Kort 4 months ago

A billion dollars is 1,000 X $ 1,000,000 dollars or $ 1,000,000,000 .

Both the right and the left in this country are suckers because the money flows up hill and the poop from the ultra rich flows down on them .

They own congress and pull the strings heartlessly !

So you are under paid and can't keep up with rising costs of living and you look around and blame it on someone else in the same hole as you are or on social programs while the top earners are out on their boats or jetting off to some nice vacation

Encouraging biggots to be biggots is always the perfect diversion for the top earners in any society .

Don't notice how much disappears up hill ! Keep your eyes on the next struggling economic fool like yorself and HATE THEM because the pencil pushers are way ahead of you and them screwing you to the economic wall while you are too consumed with hate of other races to know it !

In the 50s the top tax on top earners was 90% of everything over $200,000 or so . YOU REMEMBER HAPPY DAYS ! .......the 50s ?

How did we pay for the Korean War, The Cold War, The Interstate Highway System, The GI bill and have a growing middle class who were home owners ?

90% over $200,000 then is about equal to 90% of all over $ 5,000,000 today ......and some earn multi billions today or hold it in corporations as cash on hand that makes no jobs or they buy back their stock raising it's price by lowering the share outstanding .

Most billionaires own there homes, don't have a to take a large income from their companies because they leave it in the companies that don't always pay everyone else employed a real living wage but it does add up in their companies .

The top 1% are picking societies bones and turning neighbor against neighbor in economic Helter Skelter .

The truly rich do not need the right wing unless it is to abuser them financially and confuse the public by shifting the focus from themselves,..... and the billionaires come from all races, religions, colors and political types .

I am pointing out the obvious .

If you think that not taxing the rich or their corporations works then look at what happened in Kansas where jobs disappeared with corporate tax exemptions and the great economic promissed growth went elsewhere but here !

That sucking sound is money going up hill that the middle and the poor will never see unless they buy into economic slavery and blame it on some other struggling middle class or poor person .

Fred Whitehead Jr. 4 months ago

And what, if anything, does this rambling post have to do with Trump and his support of neo Nazis and white supremacists???

Marc Wilborn 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Gotta agree with you, Michael. The bipartisan elite know where the money comes from - taxes and would rather have the little guy pay versus the already rich. It doesn't matter which party it is, they are all the same now.

Michael Kort 4 months ago

Hey, we got a billionaire for a president and he wants to kill health care..... and he keeps promissing an infrastructure bill to rebuild..... whatever ?.... along with tax cuts ....and to enlarge our military ........and fight all kinds of existing wars ......and magically do it all at once while fighting with anyone personally that he can fight with daily ?

He is president........not Hilary or Obama....... ..he needs to get on with it responsibly instead of blaming others .

The guy sounds like a bad commercial for a cheap casino somewhere . IT'S ALL ABOUT WINNING ! YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE IT ! IT IS GOING TO BE SO GREAT ! IT IS GOING TO BE FANTASTIC ! BLAH......BLAH.....BLAH.....SUCKERS !

I guess that Trump figured out while going bankrupt in the casino business in Atlantic City, that people like to hear that kind of advertising stuff about great times and winning at his former casinos....... and that ad speak is a great way to part others from their money....... and their votes !

Later on in the day of the killings in Virginia, the KKKs david duke reminded Trump on tv of their loyal support in his election bid .

Jeff Mitchell 4 months ago

Getting worked up over the useless cretin, neonazis and equally foul antifa anarchists is a waste of time. Morons will always gravitate to extremes. Josef Goebbels a was a rabid communist prior to "finding" national socialism. The fact is a woman was murdered by a stupid, deviant kid. He'll spend the rest of his life paying for that. Trumps's no worse than the morons on the other side. BTW, how many black kids were murdered in gun-free Chicago last weekend? Doesn't even make the news. That's what's sad...

Nick Naidenov 4 months ago

It's interesting how everyone has already tried and convicted this kid. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty in this country? Whatever happened to the First Amendment let alone the Second Amendment? Why don't you let the kid go through the court system first before finding him guilty? There is video evidence that his car was being attacked before he rammed people and even the cops said he was just scared and overreacted in an attempt to get away. But everyone wants to be a Lynch Mob like a bunch of hypocrites divide and conquer identity politics are so effective.

Greg Cooper 3 months, 4 weeks ago

There is video evidence that he intentionally accelerated into the crowded street, and that he backed up (no traffic behind him) before he fled the scene. Now, I ain't no lawyer, but seeing that is pretty convincing that he attempted to murder some people, and succeeded in that attempt. Evidence I have seen shows him doing all that. He did not have to accelerate, he was in complete control of his vehicle, and his brakes were operable. We both have seen thew same clips, and you didn't take note of the parts that I did? You feel like upholding his first amendment rights to, what, demonstrate his right to free speech by killing someone? What a laugh, Nick. What a sick, silly, insufferable laugh.

Nick Naidenov 3 months, 4 weeks ago

This is for the courts to decide you can label me laugh at me and mock me all you want. I didn't see the video you're talking about. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy of lynching somebody.

Greg Cooper 3 months, 4 weeks ago

I agree that the courts will have to judge the guy, but, having seen the evidence available to everyone, I stand by my initial opinion, and my comments to you. I did not laugh at you, Nick, but was describing my reaction to your transparent attempt at laying blame on the woman who died. You're probably a guy I would get along with well, but your thoughts about this are not defensible to me. That's all I said and anything else you inferred is wrong.

And, by the way, what the heck has the 2nd amendment got to do with this discussion? Sounds as if you are afraid I'll forget the Constitution. I assure, you, Nick, I am a strong supporter of that document.

Nick Naidenov 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Laying blame to the woman that died? Wow!!!! You got issues. But whatever words you to put in my mouth. If personally attacking me wins an argument then whatever. As for the Second Amendment there's already people pushing for gun control over this car issue. Laying blame...ready greg dang you got some serious issues. Now I remember why I quit reading these comments.

Greg Cooper 3 months, 4 weeks ago

"There is video evidence that his car was being attacked before he rammed people and even the cops said he was just scared and overreacted in an attempt to get away." Now, what else am I to infer from this statement, Nick? I mean, either it was his fault or it was hers for being there and getting killed. He definitely was not trying to get away when he sped into a stopped vehicle which just happened to have a bunch of human beings behind and around it. I imagine he was plenty scared when he got our of his car after he backed it away and got out: there were quite a few pretty scared and angry people there who probably were not really pleased that he had tried to kill them. On purpose.

And people are always ready to call for second amendment restrictions for nearly any event. Not me. Putting words into your mouth? Not at all. Just reading what you said and being logical about the outcome.

Nick Naidenov 3 months, 4 weeks ago

I'm taking the stand that I did because when black kids were getting murdered by cops which led to the creation of the BLM the media was quick to pull up dirt on these kids and adults. They were essentially the judge jury and executioner. Finding an untainted jury in such an atmosphere is impossible.

Greg Cooper 3 months, 4 weeks ago

With that I will agree. It's unfortunate, in a way, that the media is so close to the situation. But the alternative, that Chump advocates, having no media coverage of anything other than what he picks, is terrible in its implications. So, we, as individual citizens awash in media reporting, must be able to look at the facts as we can find them and make our decisions as to which "side" to support and which to deny. Your point is valid, in my opinion, but, Nick, I believe that common sense and attention to fact will always win out.

Greg Cooper 3 months, 4 weeks ago

NO, Jeff, what's sad is that you and your ilk think it's OK to justify this killing by pointing out that there were other senseless killings somewhere else. "He did it so I can, too" is not a justification but an excuse. And a pitifully poor attempt at an excuse, at that. Why in God's name is it so easy for you to justify indefensible actions when they are promulgated by your "side"? Do you have no humanity? Do you really care?

Greg Cooper 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Your link, Bob, is symptomatic of the whole left v.s. right argument. Both "sides" are represented by ordinary, average citizens who just want a better America. I don't think you can argue that. But both "sides" also have fringe groups that purport to speak for the whole, and I think we both know that that can't be. So, it is up to each of us to look at facts and form opinions from there. Blindly following the loudest of voices, no matter what they say, is rarely the right thing to do and invariably leads to dissension between ideologies and between groups in the same "camp". Your citation is one of those "louder voices", just as BLM is one purporting to represent the left. I don't like either one and do not form my opinions from messages from either. I hope you can say the same thing.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Lots of stuff here.....the usual drek from the "Bobs" and a lot of strange posts about the economy. I did not mention that Hillary Clinton won the election in any election anywhere except the fraudulent Electoral College. And now......and now we see the failure to recognize the real winner in this fraudulent election. Not from the Russians....from our own failure to remove this fraudulent Electoral College from the Constitution so that the real will of the voters is recognized. Even Chump recognizes that he is not the "real" president and has made a lot of noise about fraudulent voting.......HE 'WON' THE ELECTION BY THIS FRAUD.....AND HE COMPLAINS ABOUT THE REAL WINNER AND THE NUMBER OF "FRAUDULANT" VOTES HE CLAIMS SHE RECEIVED.

He is a loser.......and he knows it and has verified it.

Gary Stussie 3 months, 4 weeks ago

"the usual drek from the "Bobs" ... what about your constant whine .HE 'WON' THE ELECTION BY THIS FRAUD.....AND HE COMPLAINS ABOUT THE REAL WINNER AND THE NUMBER OF "FRAUDULANT" VOTES HE CLAIMS SHE RECEIVED.

Brock Masters 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Trump has and will again do things he can legitimately be criticized for. His comments on Charlottesville is not one of them.

He condemned the nazis and the white supremacist and never offered any support for them. He condemned the antifas for the violent acts they committed.

The white supremacist protesters, regardless of how vile their message is are free to espouse it. They were there legally. The Antifas were not and while we should all speak against racism and bigotry, it is wrong to act violently against someone or a group with whom you disagree.

Trump was right. Both sides must be condemned for their violence.

Who here supports the Antifas use of violence to silence someone's lawful free speech?

Greg Cooper 3 months, 4 weeks ago

I'm interested in who invited whom. Not being argumentative, Brock, but how did the get there illegally?

Brock Masters 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Greg, the white supremacist had a permit to protest. The permit is a legal requirement to protest in Charlottesville. The counter-protesters did not have a permit and therefore were not legally allowed to be there. Many also brought weapons because they knew it would be a violent confrontation.

The white supremacist have a hate-filled and immoral agenda, but they have a right to protest. We should counter hate, but not with violence and criminal acts.

Greg Cooper 3 months, 4 weeks ago

I agree that any legal protest should be allowed, but it was my impression that there were two permits issued. I'm sure, though, that the Antifas group was not one of them. On that, I think we both agree.

Clara Westphal 3 months, 4 weeks ago

How many of the protesters were paid to be there like they were in Ferguson, MO?

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 3 months, 3 weeks ago

Seriously? Paid? Would you like to give us some evidence, instead of mimicking Infowars.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 months, 4 weeks ago

My father was an Army artillery officer in World War 2. He assisted in putting steel up Hitler's butt.........He is now rolling over in his grave to hear of the resurgence of Nazis in America. Trump and his Nazi pals are an affront of unimagined horror to the memory of what my father stood for. This is the most disgusting and disgraceful display of anti-American events and with the assistance of the Nazi sympathizer Trump it is made it even more awful and horrifying.

Trump has given aid and cover to the Nazis and White Supremacists. He is one of them.

A minority of American voters have accomplished in the United States what happened in Germany In the 1930's. The clueless people in that place and that time brought on the Third Reich.

Read the books......."The Nightmare Years" and "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" ("Third Reich = Nazi Germany) By William Shirer.......available on E Bay....Read the books.

Read the books.

Learn how the Nazis did it........Learn what Trump is doing..............Read the books........

Brock Masters 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Do I understand you correctly - you support the use of violence to silence the voice of those with whom you disagree?

If not, then you are aligned with Trump and me.

If you do, then you support criminal acts and are no better than dictators that use the same tactics.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 3 months, 4 weeks ago

So you do support Nazis. Good to know, good to know. And it wasn't one of your Nazi friends who were silenced, was it. And your buddies are even on video spreading their "love".

https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/charlottesville-race-and-terror-vice-news-tonight-on-hbo/59921b1d2f8d32d808bddfbc

Brock Masters 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Ma'am for an older person and former teacher I am amazed at your poor reading comprehension and immaturity.

No where did I say I support nazis and in fact said I condemn their hate.

Slither back under your Catina hat and think of a pithy comeback.

Justin Hoffman 3 months, 4 weeks ago

That's Dot for you. Thank God she is not teaching our children anymore. I feel sorry for her former students, being exposed to such immaturity.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 3 months, 3 weeks ago

I know. I wouldn't let any students pick on other students because they were disabled, from another country, a person of color, or they were too poor to have nice clothes. How dare me even be nice to the kid, who said "My dad said I don't have to learn no wet back language". I was even nice to him. How dare me teach respect.

Phillip Chappuie 3 months, 4 weeks ago

The only thing Masters has correct is that violence should not be used by any side. Beyond that the conservatives seem intent on creating some moral equivalency and tossing about terms like antifas. There is no equivalent when judging the morality of the white supremacist and nazis. They are wrong and evil. Period. I saw no black hooded anti's in the videos. Just citizens. At what point does one sit by and allow the evil to continue? There lies the paradox of Brock. Resist and you are as evil as that which you resist. I do not think Americans will tolerate much of these Jack booted,sieg heiling boys much. I would think they would all go home in shame after looking so ill sophisticated with their Wal Mart tiki torches.

Brock Masters 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Nice try Phillip, but I did not say there was a moral equivalent between the two groups.

Specifically what did I get wrong?

The Antifas do not wear hoods - they use masks and have been involved in violent conflicts before.

Also only one group was there legally and it wasn't the Antifas.

No one should tolerate the hate espoused by the white supremacist groups, but there are legal ways to confront their hate. Violently stopping their legal protest is criminal and unacceptable.

Justin Hoffman 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Yah, this guy looks like a non-violent, "just a citizen". Nice try Phillip.

Phillip Chappuie 3 months, 4 weeks ago

are you just a natural idiot or do you practice? This photo shopped pic has been discounted and was from Greece in 2008.

Justin Hoffman 3 months, 4 weeks ago

I suppose this is photo shopped too. And if you'll take off your loony liberal goggles you'll see this thug IS wearing a hood. Just a regular, good ol citizen right Phil?

Bob Smith 3 months, 4 weeks ago

If you don't believe in free speech for people you disagree with, then you don't believe in free speech at all.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Free speech. Come all the way across the country to tell a city, in which they do not live, which statues they can or cannot keep. Why do you think it's any of your business what this city does. You could offer to buy the statue and put in in your front yard, you know.

Brock Masters 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Didn't you don your vagina hat and travel across the country to exercise your free speech?

Greg Cooper 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Sans the hat, yes, Dorothy had the courage and conviction to join the people who share her conviction that there is a right and a wrong. And I, as well as many who will never speak, am damned proud of her and those who took part in that action. You can make fun of her and the pussy hats or whatever you want, Brock, but courage is not simply getting on a public forum and spouting words: it's putting into action those words and standing up to bullies who think they can belittle women, gays, democrats, BLM members, whatever.

What actions have you taken, Brock?

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 3 months, 3 weeks ago

Yes, and we didn't kill anyone, even though your numbers were multiple times more than your friends. In fact it was incredibly peaceful. Metro workers and park workers commented on what a wonderful, loving gathering. We didn't bring sticks. We didn't bring shields or militia with semi automatic weapons. Below is a list of the chants from the march. A few insulting to Trump, but none violent. Not like: "Jews will not replace us." "Blood and soil" or "F you Fggts"

Show me what democracy looks like This is what democracy looks like

We need a leader. not a creepy tweeter.

Let me hear it Loud and Clear, Refugees are welcome here

I dont want your tiny hands anywhere near my underpants

My body, My choice.

What do we want? Justice When do we want it? Now

Pussy Grabs Back!

We are the majority. We are the popular vote.

Hey hey! Ho Ho! Gender violence has got to go.

Love, not hate, makes America great.

Science is real! Lets go science!

Hands too small, can't build a wall.

You're orange, you're gross, you lost the popular vote.

Hey, hey, ho, ho! All the hate has got to go.

Hope, not fear. Girls rule!

Build a fence, around Mike Pence!

Water is life, science is real!

No hate! No fear! #Immigrants are welcome here!"

We choose love!

Girls just want fundamental human rights.

We are the granddaughters of the witches you weren't able to burn!

Michael Kort 3 months, 4 weeks ago

1-20-17 to 8-16-17 : just about 7 months of time .

What just happened ?.......nothing but more drama !

Mostly nothing......... except a bunch of ruling by executive orders by Trump....... and a new fight every day that Donald persues with somebody else from anywhere !

Well, THE PRESIDENTS BLAMING GOES OUT TO EVERYWHERE instead of the fact that THE BUCK STOPS HERE ( or maybe it actually does stop with Trump.... if a " buck " stands for dollars )

Well, he did tear up the trans pacific trade pact that is costing American farmers a huge export market.......but he does claim that he will renegotiate that somehow ( which might have taken 4 years to get the last one done that he discarded ).......but not to worry because the Brazilians from Brazil will be happy to replace us at the meat counters of Asia !

Brock Masters 3 months, 4 weeks ago

We have a conservative SCOTUS justice, N.Korea backed down for the first time in decades, we withdrew from the Climate Accord, millions of jobs have been created and the stock market is doing well.

Greg Cooper 3 months, 4 weeks ago

We have FIVE "conservative" justices, N. Korea hasn't been a problem of any import to anyone for decades, the climate accord will go on without us, millions of jobs are paying less than before Chump, and the stock market is doing well. So, what's your point? All of that means that racism and stupid, murderous protesting is OK? Or that statues glorifying those with beliefs antithetical to the American ideal are OK? Just what is your point?

Might it be that mainstream America is still doing its job (albeit, at a lower rate of pay than before), or that Americans still see that hard work and attention to tradition are ideals that continue to govern us? What, exactly, is your point, Brock?

Brock Masters 3 months, 4 weeks ago

Greg, Dot was ridiculing people for leaving their homes and traveling across the country to express their views. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of her statement. She travelled across country to voice her opinion. Apparently okay for her to leave home to do it but not those with whom she disagrees.

BLM is a hate group but you support them? Wow, says a lot about you Greg. Never took you to be one to support a group that is anti-police, anti- white and wipes their butts with the American flag.

As to my point to what Trump accomplished it is obvious you're not open minded enough to get it. You really think N Korea hasn't been a problem before Trump? Plus referring to Trump as Chump demonstrates a level of immaturity that is reminiscent of those that persisted in calling Obama names and a Muslim. No point debating with someone who resorts to juvenile name calling.

Greg Cooper 3 months, 3 weeks ago

"Blindly following the loudest of voices, no matter what they say, is rarely the right thing to do and invariably leads to dissension between ideologies and between groups in the same "camp". Your citation is one of those "louder voices", just as BLM is one purporting to represent the left. I don't like either one and do not form my opinions from messages from either." In reply to your "BLM is a hate group but you support them? Wow, says a lot about you Greg. Never took you to be one to support a group that is anti-police, anti- white and wipes their butts with the American flag."

I hope that clears that misconception up. My point was that bullying, of anyone or any group, is not constructive. You are right: I don't support any group that has beliefs or acts in ways that are antithetical to the American way of life. I may, however, have beliefs in common with particular parts of theirs, but I'm not stupid enough to embrace all of any ideology, no matter whose they are. I don't think, however, that every person I talk to is as selective as I, and that leads to the bullying and over-the-top rhetoric and violence seen too often in the country.

As to "Chump", that is what I believe him to be, and I have no compunction in not offering him an iota of respect. Note that that lack of respect is for the person and not the office of President of the United States. Again, I can be selective in my thinking. Am I right in calling him out by changing his name? Probably not. But i will not grace that man with any semblance of respect, nor those who blindly follow and laud him.

Bob Smith 3 months, 3 weeks ago

"...millions of jobs are paying less than before Chump..." Citation, please?

Greg Cooper 3 months, 3 weeks ago

http://www.epi.org/nominal-wage-tracker/. And there are more, but you get the point.

After inflation and compared to historic wage increases, wages are flat. I probably overstated the averages, but the point is that the economic "recovery" is not translating to the average worker but to the stock market and those who profit from low wages by gaining higher profits.

Bob Smith 3 months, 2 weeks ago

In other violent leftist news: "...Stalin is dead and the U.S.S.R. is just a historical lesson of what happens every time an actual socialist state is formed in real life. But the term "anti-fascist" is being used for the same ends today as it was then. Violent leftists want to make their assaults on others' life and property -- almost identical to the sort of thing neo-Nazis engage in, only for different reasons -- seem justifiable. And they do this by defining themselves as a force opposed to something that all ordinary, decent people find repulsive. We may not take today's anarcho-communists as seriously as we did back when they had the power, the weapons, and the infrastructure to murder tens of millions of people. But their goals are no different. As they put it, they don't want a "U.S.A. at all." The country they want to occupy the center of North America has no First Amendment, no freedom of expression, and people with opposing views (of any views, not just Nazis) are beaten, imprisoned or murdered for intellectual dissent. They may run the gamut from anarchism to revolutionary socialism in their views, but they have far more in common with fascists than they do with the people they seek to attract with the sweet-sounding "anti-fascist" label..." http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/why-you-should-never-use-the-term-anti-fascist/article/2632847

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