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Archive for Monday, March 3, 2014

Editorial: Strong charges

If Sen. Harry Reid believes the Koch brothers are lying about the Affordable Care Act, he needs to back up his claims with facts.

March 3, 2014

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Nevada Sen. Harry Reid, the U.S. Senate’s majority leader, recently said brothers Charles and David Koch of Wichita are “about as un-American as anyone I can imagine.”

He also accused the Kochs of “spreading lies” about President Obama’s health care plan, saying ads sponsored by the Kochs are lies and that the brothers “are immoral and dishonest.” He added, “It’s time that the American people spoke out against this terrible dishonesty of these two brothers.”

The natural reaction from such charges would be to fight back, but such actions would merely elevate Reid in the eyes of those who share his opinion.

The best course of action for the Kochs or their representatives would be to merely ask the Nevada senator to identify and refute the so-called “lies,” and if he is serious about the matter, he should back up his claims with specific information.

Or, perhaps the best thing the Kochs can do is not respond.

Instances such as this should cause those interested or concerned to take a close look at the individual making the charges and judge the character, record and mission of that individual.

The Kochs don’t need defending. The businesses they own are among the nation’s finest and most productive, providing employment for hundreds of thousands of people. Also, they have been among the country’s most generous in their philanthropic giving to a wide variety of programs and institutions.

Sen. Reid may not like the advertisements and messages paid for by the Kochs, but he exposes his thin skin and political blindness when he suggests the Kochs are “un-American,” dishonest and liars.

Comments

Julius Nolan 6 months, 3 weeks ago

See Dolph laid down the law to his editorial writers.

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Amy Varoli Elliott 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Wait you mean there are actually people who don't know the Koch brothers are living thru their teeth?

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Mark Rainey 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Stalin has left his imprint on Kansas.

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Bob Smith 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Saul Alinsky has left his imprint on the Democratic party.

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James Howlette 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Sigh. That chart doesn't list dark money. We've been through this before.

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Jeff Messick 6 months, 3 weeks ago

It's well documented that the Koch's are the funding behind many, many of the anti ACA commercials. These have run from obnoxious to total fabrication. One after another of their personal horror stories have been show to be false, but you'll never hear the follow up in the right wing press. They have been the money behind the political purge of moderates in Kansas which has left the LJW and it's owner irrelevant in current Kansas politics. Perhaps they're doing like Senator Roberts and trying to make a hard right turn to get back into favor.

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James Howlette 6 months, 3 weeks ago

No, a "well documented" claim is not simply one that is popular, although it could be. Generally it means that it's been written about enough to make the facts clear. There are logical fallacies in Jeff's statement. You just didn't pick one of them. Try again.

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Jim Slade 6 months, 3 weeks ago

The Julie Boonstra ad comes to mind as a misleading anti-obamacare ad produced by the Kochs.

In the ad this leukemia suffer claims "My insurance was canceled because of Obamacare. Now, the out-of-pocket costs are so high, it’s unaffordable. If I do not receive my medication, I will die. I believed the president. I believed I could keep my health insurance plan. I feel lied to."

The truth is she still has her same doctor, she has new insurance at half of her previous premium- but higher out of pocket costs. What isn't mentioned is the fact that her out of pocket costs are now capped at $6350 when it wasn't before.

Her premium before was $1100 a month- a total of $13200 for the year PLUS whatever her out of pocket costs were. Her premium now is $571 a month- a total of $6852 for the year. Add in her max out of pocket costs and you get a total maximum she has to pay of $13202. $2 more than her premium costs for the year. Add in her out of pocket costs that she used to pay and you'll see that she is, in fact, paying LESS under the ACA then under her old insurance AND she has the same doctor!

Sounds like the ad is a lie to me! http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/02/20/a-hard-hitting-anti-obamacare-ad-makes-a-claim-that-doesnt-add-up/ http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140128/POLITICS03/301280098

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John Graham 6 months, 3 weeks ago

So Sen Reid is calling the Kochs "un-American" because they exercise their right of free speech which just happens to disagree with Sen Reid's ideas. So only those people that agree with Sen Reid are American? Sounds like Sen Reid would like to quiet opinions that are contrary to his liberal views. Sounds like Sen Reid could be "un-American".

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Bob Smith 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Remember when Reid was hinting that Romney hadn't paid any income tax for years and it turned out that was a gigantic lie? Why would anyone think that skunk has changed his stripes now?

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Beator 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Well Bob. You have to remember. Reid has light skin with no reasonable dialect.

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James Howlette 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Did he ever actually show his tax returns? I'd like to see the proof that this was actually a lie?

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Bob Smith 6 months, 3 weeks ago

There's a thing called google that would help you answer that question for yourself. Check it out sometime.

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James Howlette 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Yeah, believe it or not, I don't consider you to be a reliable source, so I did try that first. I don't see anything new to this story at all. There's some claim that Huntsman Sr was his source, which he denies. There's speculation in the Daily Caller that the IRS must have leaked info to Reid (which would be totally creepy but also the opposite of Reid lying about it.) There's nothing on Romney's tax returns beyond the two years he did release.

Personally, I think Romney got caught up in the Swiss bank account scandal, which is why he didn't want to release his tax returns, but at this point nobody could actually say for sure whether or not Reid was a "gigantic liar" for claiming that a Bain investor told him that Romney basically paid no taxes.

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Bob Smith 6 months, 2 weeks ago

Wow, a Harry Reid true believer. I didn't think they actually existed. What a strange world you inhabit.

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James Howlette 6 months, 2 weeks ago

Wow, a straw man argument. I knew they existed.

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Grégoire Guillaume 6 months, 3 weeks ago

It's true they provide many good paying jobs so individuals and families can enjoy the many perks of living in this great country of ours. How many of those workers live down wind from one of their chemical plants I wonder?

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Seth Peterson 6 months, 2 weeks ago

It's funny the original LTE is calling out Reid for being dishonest about the Koch's being dishonest because Reid doesn't back up his claims with 'facts' while being perfectly okay with the Koch's claims which also provide no facts in support.

The burden of proof always falls back on the initial claim, which in this case is the ACA and what it provides, now if the Koch's which to call foul on this they must provide evidence in counter to that provided by the ACA, which they have never done.

From this point anyone (Reid or otherwise) can call them out for their dishonesty until they provide evidence to show they are not (which they never will).

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Beator 6 months, 2 weeks ago

It is funny. That burden of proof thingy.

The Obama administration is set to announce another major delay in implementing the Affordable Care Act, easing election pressure on Democrats.

As early as this week, according to two sources, the White House will announce a new directive allowing insurers to continue offering health plans that do not meet ObamaCare’s minimum coverage requirements.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/199784-new-obamacare-delay-to-help-midterm-dems#ixzz2v0ZzcMZw Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

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Julius Nolan 6 months, 2 weeks ago

Sorry, but I don't consider thehill.com a reliable source. It is just a collection of blogs without any backup with facts, just personal opinions.

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Seth Peterson 6 months, 2 weeks ago

It is funny, considering how many of those who have the burden of proof tend to just ignore it, or where it's needed, where providing it would be incredibly beneficial to them. Imagine what would happen if the Koch brothers, creationist, or climate deniers had one shred of evidence to back up their claims; it would move fields of study in droves if they could provide any.

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Richard Heckler 6 months, 2 weeks ago

John Birch Society Celebrates Koch Family For Their Role In Founding The Hate Group http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/06/10/242334/john-birch-society-celebrates-koch/

Where Did The GOP go? It died at the hands of Koch Industries, Walton Family money, AMWAY family money(DeVoss), John Birch,Pete Peterson,Extreme Fundamentalists,Xe/Prinz family money etc etc etc

What is the GOP? John Birch Society - ALEC - Anti American - The Tea Party = it's all four. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/SourceWatch

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Richard Heckler 6 months, 2 weeks ago

Rather than serve the public interest, ALEC champions the agenda of corporations which are willing to pay for access to legislators and the opportunity to write their very own legislation. It helps surrogates and lobbyists for corporations to draft and promote bills which:

• gut environmental laws

• create a regressive tax system

• eliminate workers’ rights = lower wages

• undermine universal and affordable health care

• privatize public education

• chip away at voting rights. http://www.pfaw.org/rww-in-focus/alec-the-voice-of-corporate-special-interests-state-legislatures#Voter

United States of ALEC http://www.democracynow.org/2012/9/27/the_united_states_of_alec_bill

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Richard Heckler 6 months, 2 weeks ago

The Savings & Loan scandal is by no means the only incident of questionable, and actually illegal, financial activity that the Bush family has been involved in.

The line of questionable, illegal, and unethical businesses practices goes back at least to Prescott Bush Sr., George Bush Sr.’s father. Prescott Bush was a Senator from 1952 – 1963. Previous to his time as a Senator Prescott was a banker and businessman.

Prior to the American entry into WWII Prescott Bush was director of Union Banking Corporation. Union Banking Corporation helped to finance Hitler’s regime.

The Concentration Camps of Nazi Germany were labor camps that the Nazis used to make products for their regime as well as for sale to raise money. Prescott profited directly from the Auschwitz labor camp.

In 1942, after Hitler declared war on America the United States government seized the Union Banking Corporation under the Trading with the Enemy Act as a front operation that was supporting the Nazis. Much of the profits from the operation were already pocketed by Prescott however, and $1.5 million was put in a trust fund for George Bush Sr.

For more on Prescott Bush's ties to the Nazis see:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

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Bob Smith 6 months, 2 weeks ago

And the relationship of this post to the original story on this thread is??????

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Richard Heckler 6 months, 2 weeks ago

DO AWAY WITH MONOPOLY POLITICS

Getting rid of Wall Street’s Political Monopoly http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/12/25/john-stauber-on-the-wall-streets-political-monopoly/

Let's have public financing of campaigns. Citizens cannot afford special interest money campaigns for it is the citizens that get left out. http://www.publicampaign.org/

DO AWAY WITH MONOPOLY POLITICS http://ofby.us.

FairVote educates and empowers Americans to remove the structural barriers to achieving a representative democracy that respects every vote and every voice in every election.

As a thought leader and catalyst for change, we are at the center of research, education and advocacy about ranked choice voting ("instant runoff"), a constitutionally protected right to vote, a national popular vote for president, and, most fundamentally, fair representation voting forms of proportional representation.

DO AWAY WITH MONOPOLY POLITICS http://www.fairvote.org

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Bob Smith 6 months, 2 weeks ago

Reid, while flailing around charging people with unAmerican activities, is starting to look like he's channeling Tail-Gunner Joe.

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