Archive for Tuesday, March 26, 2013

Kansas Senate advances expansion of concealed carry of guns

March 26, 2013


— The Kansas Senate on Tuesday advanced an expansion of concealed carry of guns that could result in allowing firearms in schools and campuses.

"When a gun is in a school and harm is meant, there is only one thing that is going to stop that, and that is another gun," said state Sen. Forrest Knox, R-Altoona.

Referring to the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn. and the unarmed teachers who were killed while trying to protect students, Knox said, "We've got to get our heads out of the sand. There are guns and there are people with evil intent and law enforcement is not always the first responder. The first responders at Sandy Hook are all dead."

Knox's bill says that a public building cannot prohibit concealed carry if it doesn't have security equipment or personnel to ensure that no one is carrying.

The bill would allow a four-year exemption for any public building by making a security plan and submitting that the attorney general and law enforcement.

Knox's bill would also allow school districts and state colleges to designate employees to carry concealed weapons at work.

The House has passed a similar bill.

Knox said university campuses are particularly vulnerable, and he said based on studies there are 35 students carrying a gun illegally for every 1,000 students. That means there are approximately 700 illegal guns on the Kansas University campus now, he said.

He said if licensed concealed carry holders would be allowed to carry on campus, rapes and other crimes would decrease.

But state Sen. Marci Francisco, D-Lawrence, said allowing guns on campuses would make "those places less safe."

Francisco says she feels safe on the KU campus. "I've spent a fair amount of time on campus and never felt the need or interest to carry a gun. I rely on the law enforcement that does exist," she said.

State Sen. Pat Pettey, D-Kansas City, offered an amendment that would have removed schools and postsecondary institutions from the bill. But that was defeated.


irussell 5 years, 2 months ago

Amazing - allow guns on campus, but take away women's right to their own body. This Senate & Legislature is not listening to the constituents that voted them in - although I did not vote for anyone that is in office this year in my district

UfoPilot 5 years, 2 months ago

Your comment is an attempt at changing the subject. Nice try though...

Keith 5 years, 2 months ago

The Kansas Legislature: Keeping the unemployable busy since, well forever.

hedshrinker 5 years, 2 months ago

just one of many terrible, irresponsible laws coming out of the Koch legislature this session.In spite of all the current and evolving research about the uneven brain development of adolescents and young adults (as to the lag in their cognitive assessment and impulse control systems to act as a disinhibitor on their emotional impulses),these lawmakers persist in their NRA-inspired belief system allowing for the proliferation of guns in settings where people are not always functioning with all their faculties: schools, hospitals, mental health clinics, etc. This is particularly problematic as we see the poor training and lack of continuing education with supervised practice mandated for CC. I support trained, licensed UNIFORMED law enforcement in hospitals (we ALWAYS had uniformed officers in the city ER I worked in) and resource officers in schools, but not armed staff. Staff's mission is difficult enough doing their required work for which they are trained.

skull 5 years, 2 months ago

Knox said university campuses are particularly vulnerable, and he said based on studies there are 35 students carrying a gun illegally for every 1,000 students. That means there are approximately 700 illegal guns on the Kansas University campus now, he said.

So how many thousand university students do they have out there in Altoona Mr. Knox? If this statistic, which probably isn't relevant at KU anyways, holds up for the population at large, that'd mean there were about 16 illegal guns in the entire town of Altoona...

chootspa 5 years, 2 months ago

I say we should also legalize underage drinking. I bet the number of students who have done it are more than 35 per 1000.

mdlund0 5 years, 2 months ago

While I'm in favor of this bill, I question the source and validity of this 35 guns per 1000 students statistic. Misinformation only does a disservice for gun rights.

skull 5 years, 2 months ago

Oh...I'm supposed to wait till AFTER work?

oldexbeat 5 years, 2 months ago

Yes, is was illegal to carry at all north of the railroad tracks -- the Deadline -- and you turned them in and got them back when you left the area. By the way, guess that really redefines what the 2nd Amendment meant in the 1870s. Gun control is allowed, it would seem, by the 2nd Amendment.

UneasyRider 5 years, 2 months ago

Actually all NRA members should be tatted will their IQ, then we would know who to avoid.

mdlund0 5 years, 2 months ago

You're not the first person to have that idea. It was implemented in Eastern Europe in the late 1930's by the Germans. That worked out well for all involved...

Peacemaker452 5 years, 2 months ago

False Godwin alert…..

“Godwin’s Law” doesn’t apply to appropriate references to Nazi’s practices.

Since using tattoos to identify people you consider “undesirable” was a common Nazi practice and is exactly what people are calling for in this discussion, the law doesn’t apply.

UfoPilot 5 years, 2 months ago

Do you really believe insults make a cogent argument for or against a position?

Ben Lockwood 5 years, 2 months ago

Thank god school shootings have prompted the Kansas Legislature to pass laws protecting the rights of gun owners.

It's almost as though they are doing this to spite the families who have lost loved ones. I hope we get to live in a state where people are shooting each other all the live long day, each armed maniac convinced he's protecting someone by blasting someone else.

Has one person with a gun ever prevented another armed person from wrongdoing?

chzypoof1 5 years, 2 months ago

Yes, it happens a LOT every day around the country. These stories unfortunately do not get News coverage. Just google it. Pretty easy to find the data.

Charles L. Bloss, Jr. 5 years, 2 months ago

Yes, many times. Read the armed citizen page in the American Rifleman, one of the NRA magazines. It is probably also on the NRA website. Many incidents are reported locally, but not by the national news media.

Randall Uhrich 5 years, 2 months ago

What kind of flawed logic leads anyone to conclude that the presence of more firearms would lead to less gun violence? Geez!

chootspa 5 years, 2 months ago

The kind of logic that also leads one to ignore the fact that the most likely form of gun violence is simple suicide.

Peacemaker452 5 years, 2 months ago

Suicides, whether by firearm or any other means, should be left out of the crime statistics. Suicide is a choice, not a crime.

chootspa 5 years, 2 months ago

Fact: suicide is more likely to kill a college student than a mass murderer.

Fact: suicide rates go down when someone doesn't have direct access to a firearm.

If the conversation is about the overall wellbeing of students while they're attending college, then suicide absolutely needs to be part of the conversation.

Peacemaker452 5 years, 2 months ago

The conversation is about allowing concealed carry on campus. Suicide is a separate and distinct conversation. I don’t think you are going to find any correlation between the two so suicide is not part of the conversation.

chootspa 5 years, 2 months ago

Direct access to a gun = correlation to suicide. Access doesn't get any more direct than the gun you are carrying on your person. It turns out a lot of suicide decisions are sudden and temporary and that making someone go through more effort to kill themselves actually foils the attempt.

Granted, the scope is limited, since many of the students aren't above age 21, and 21 year old students are probably more likely to live off campus, where they could legally have a firearm right now. But having a CC permit doesn't suddenly make you less suicidal.

Pamela Shanks 5 years, 2 months ago

The January 16 Time magazine was on gun use and control. Very interesting statistics showing that even police officers with all of their training in stressful situations and with hours and hours on firing ranges are not as good or reliable shots when being fired at. It examines the body's reaction to extreme stress and the difficulty of making the right choices with cortisol raging through your system. The article goes on to point out that keeping teachers certified and even up to the training level of a police officer would be extremely difficult. An armed teacher is only as good as the training they receive and there is not enough out there to keep them ready. Also, do you want the police when they arrive to begin trying to assess who the bad guy is? How many guns will there be and how do we know who is who in the heat of the moment? A recipe fro tragedy. Can you imagine the outcry on this website or nationwide if a teacher with a gun was accidently shot by a responding officer?

Charles L. Bloss, Jr. 5 years, 2 months ago

There is a very simple solution for that problem. Have a slit cut in the top of concealed carry permit cards, so a hanging clip can be installed. They should display this on a shirt pocket, etc. Unless they are holding a bad guy at gunpoint, they should holster their weapon. I am a retired peace officer with 30 years of service. Our ID cards have this slit so either a clip or lanyard can display the card. Many of us have badges on a chain instead, but the slit would work fine for concealed carry holders. The question was very good and certainly important for responding officers.

Jason Johnson 5 years, 2 months ago

w00t! About time our legislature does something right in this State. :)

optimist 5 years, 2 months ago

All due respect but Senator Francisco isn’t exactly the target of opportunity that rapists are looking for on a college campus. Her words might have more meaning is she were a young co-ed. It’s disappointing that she doesn’t get that. I for one would rather my young daughter have the tools to protect herself in the event that a deviant much larger and stronger than she decides to try to victimize her. I don’t understand why this concept is so hard to get our heads around. The most accurate assessment of the personal protection issue can be summed up with this quote “in an emergency dial 911, help is only moments away when seconds count”.

Bob Forer 5 years, 2 months ago

Unfortunately, rapists don't wait until a young woman has a chance to pull her cute little pistol from her purse before they launch their attack. Odds are that the concealed weapon would just as likely be used to get rid of the victim and eye witnesses to the crime as to prevent it from happening. If you daughter is going to carry, I advise she wear her weapon on her hip for easy and quick access.

chootspa 5 years, 2 months ago

We all know that rapists shout their intent, "Hey woman 50 feet from me, I'm running over there now to rape you! I hope you don't have a gun!" They never never already know the victim, drug a drink, pick drunk victims, or immobilize a victim very quickly.

skull 5 years, 2 months ago

Marci was probably just trying to represent her constituents, many of which happen to be university students or affiliated with the university community. Forrest Knox, however, doesn't represent anything of the sort.

chootspa 5 years, 2 months ago

Huh. I had a post here pointing out the inherent victim-blaming in a statement that implies rape victims are all attractive female college students, but apparently it's been removed. Or it's a glitch and I'll feel silly about saying it twice.

btsflk 5 years, 2 months ago

Just for the record, rapists don't necessarily look for sweet young things. Any female will do, although, the hunting may be easier in areas where there might be more, generally unsuspecting women.

chootspa 5 years, 2 months ago

They don't necessarily look for just females, either.

chzypoof1 5 years, 2 months ago

I wish some out here would think about the "chance" of protecting themselves and their students in the case of a shooting. Yes, there's a chance that they get you before you can draw. You might miss.

But here's the gave yourself a chance. Just laying down and saying "well, I might die. Hope the cops get here in time" should never be an option. I'm surprised at how many people are willing to take this stance.

As far as guns on campus, they are there already. They are in movie theaters. They are in hospitals. They are just carried there ILLEGALY. Gun control will not stop the criminals from carrying guns wherever they want. These laws will only stop Law Abiding citizens from having the opportunity to defend themselves against the criminals. I just don't understand the logic you see in passing restrictive laws. Chicago has the most restrictive gun laws in the country.....and the Highest gun crime in the country. It's illegal to carry a handgun there, but handgun crime is the highest EVER.

Anyway, we should allow teachers and students to protect themselves. It won't be the wild west. We have Felony laws against showing off your firearm, shooting it in public, etc. So you don't have to worry about that part with the kids. The teachers should have the right to defend themselves, if they so choose. Stand up for yourselves, stop leaning on someone else.



chootspa 5 years, 2 months ago

Greater chance of being hit by lightning than being killed in a mass shooting. Lower chance of dying of smallpox or being hit by an asteroid. So no need for everyone to come to campus with personal asteroid defense systems, but we may consider optional lightning-rod permits.

chzypoof1 5 years, 2 months ago

Autie, being shot in a building is something, law allowing, that you can prepare for. You can attempt to avert this danger. Asteroids, lightning, smallpox...out of your control.

Charles L. Bloss, Jr. 5 years, 2 months ago

I have nothing against qualified trained teachers carrying concealed in school. After 911 many pilots went through training at their own cost, so they could be armed in the cockpit to protect the flying public. In our schools I prefer school resource officers ( a trained peace officer whose salary is paid for by the school district ) in every school. Keep in mind that perhaps few teachers will be accepting of the role of armed protector. What the NRA executive said " the only defense against a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun". is true. Having SRO's in every school does make protecting our children our foremost priority. They deserve a chance to study free from violence. Our children are our most important resource. Many middle and high schools already have school resource officers, I think every school should have at least one. We must do the best we can with what we have available. Also so called "gun free zones" are an open invitation to armed criminals who will likely face no armed resistance. That is why so many mass shootings occur in these places. Having an SRO in each school could change this. In Israel, schools have two signs, one is a no gun sign, next to it is a sign that says school personnel are armed and will protect the children with their lives. .

juma 5 years, 2 months ago

I am so damn tired of all these arguments about CC. Recently and idiot with CC shot his wife in a restaurant and no one seems to remember. Guns are dangerous; does not matter the reason a person is carrying. Accidents happen and the more prevalent then the more chance!!! Simple math.

chzypoof1 5 years, 2 months ago

Juma, i'm sorry that your knowledge of this situation is based off of 1 person mishandling their firearm. For every person that mishandles, there are 100,000 that don't.

But oh well, sensationalism sells....

Ben Lockwood 5 years, 2 months ago

yeah, sandy hook was certainly sensational.

juma 5 years, 2 months ago

Hey, chzypooof1, it only takes one bullet to kill someone. What if he had killed a child in that restaurant. What if you had been there and got shot? My point is that accidents happen and the more idiots running around with guns the more chance for someone getting shot. And, by the way, this idiot had a cc permit indicating that according to the system (and you) he was qualified? Now think about a mass off immature students, most probably never grew up with guns (as I did) and go to some joke of a class, get a cc and carry a gun to campus. Complete lunacy.

jayhawklawrence 5 years, 2 months ago

I found myself agreeing with Rand Paul today on the gun issue.

This is what the gun hater hysteria is doing. The Democrats are starting to lose the White House and the Congress and they don't even know it yet.

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