Archive for Tuesday, March 26, 2013

Anti-abortion activists urge passage of fetal heartbeat bill in Kansas

March 26, 2013


— Anti-abortion activists on Tuesday urged passage of a bill that would prohibit an abortion if a fetal heartbeat is detectable, saying the measure would lead to a challenge of the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court ruling in Roe v. Wade, which struck down many state laws restricting abortion.

“This is an opportunity unlike any we’ve ever had,” said Janet Porter, president of the anti-abortion group Faith2Action. “And this bill before you is the very best vehicle in the country to bring ‘Roe’ crashing to the ground."

Porter also told the House Federal and State Affairs Committee that Kansas should act quickly before the retirements of U.S. Supreme Court justices Antonin Scalia, who has built a conservative record, and Anthony Kennedy, who has been the swing vote on social issues.

“This bill must reach them before an administration hostile to life has an opportunity to replace them,” Porter said. “After 40 years and 55 million dead babies, if this is not the time, there is never a time.”

But opponents of House Bill 2324 argued that the bill was unconstitutional and would cost a lot to defend in court.

“The bill would multiply the over $700,000 in legal expenses Kansas taxpayers have already spent defending unconstitutional abortion restrictions over the past two years,” said Elise Higgins, lobbyist and state co-coordinator for Kansas NOW. “Using the state’s resources to pick a fight with the Supreme Court is a waste of constituents’ money."

Opponents called the bill “dangerous” and said that it could increase instances of unsafe, illegal abortions. Sometimes a fetal heartbeat is detectable by six weeks of pregnancy.

They also said the proposal does not contain exceptions for pregnancies resulting from rape or incest. “Ultimately, women are moral actors equipped to make their own decisions about pregnancy,” Higgins concluded. “The Legislature has no place in this private decision-making.”

Committee Chairman Rep. Arlen Siegfreid, R-Olathe, said that members of the committee would vote on the bill. However, because the bill has been introduced near the end of the 2013 session, he did not think there was enough time to move it through the House and Senate.

Later on Tuesday, North Dakota Gov. Jack Dalrymple signed a similar piece of legislation. The law would take effect Aug. 1, making it the state with the most restrictive abortion rights.


Hooligan_016 5 years, 2 months ago

So when conservatives go on about "STATES RIGHTS" etc., we let a activist/lobbyist group out of Ohio dictate our OWN internal policy. Seems legit.

fiddleback 5 years, 2 months ago

"States' rights" has been code for slavery since the's just that now it's muttered by Republicans rather than Democrats, and in this case refers to reproductive slavery rather than race-based slavery.

That, afterall, is the proud devolution of the GOP: an initial platform of ending human chattel, and a modern focus on restoring its essence economically, plus trying to turn the fairer sex back into beasts of burden...

UfoPilot 5 years, 2 months ago

Your use of the word "dictate" is inappropriate.

Jonathan Fox 5 years, 2 months ago

This is one of the worst arguments against abortion there is. We have lots of laws that dictate moral, ethical character and actions. We don't allow murder, stealing, and many other laws that define what our society decides to be moral.

It's like saying murder shouldn't be illegal, just decide for yourself not to kill other people.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 2 months ago

Actually, none of those laws are for strictly "moral" reasons, although they may have had a "moral" basis at one time. They are part of "common law" (look that up), a system of laws that are codified because, well, that's the way it's always been. This means that it's a very apt argument. There really is no precedent for outlawing abortion, at least into common law (which is what the US Constitution is based on). It was only criminalized for about 70 years of the 236 years of US history.

voevoda 5 years, 2 months ago

The Bible dictates a lot of morals and ethics, but it doesn't say anything against abortion. Some religious traditions require that the well-being of the woman take precedence over a non-viable embryo. So by demanding that the state enshrine in law her own personal faith, Janet Porter is acting more like the Taliban than like a citizen of a pluralistic United States.

Ironically, Muslim Shar'ia law permits abortion through the 40th day, because prior to that time, the embryo does not yet have a soul.

MasterShake 5 years, 2 months ago

What's more interesting, to me, is that a group (conservatives) who vociferously demands that government stay out of our lives, is now demanding that government intervene.

Thomas Bryce Jr. 5 years, 2 months ago

Where is "Can't Have It Both Ways" when we need some explanation on that topic?

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 2 months ago

He'd just spout off about "killing the babbbbiiieeees".

Thomas Bryce Jr. 5 years, 2 months ago

Women across this State and America should be asking this Woman, Janet Porter why she supports Less rights for women! Why are so many Women Law makers OK with less rights for Women? Do they speak for you or don't they? I encourage you to let them know how you feel.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 2 months ago

Awww Kansas got beat to the punch.
I'm so sorry that their drive to out crazy other states is failing.
How quickly do they think they can get it through the lower courts? (People DO know it will be enjoined until it gets there, right?)
What guarantee do they have that SCOTUS will even hear it once it gets there?
What guarantee do they have that SCOTUS will overturn Roe? (Troy Newman called SCOTUS, "a ghoulish oligarchy of men called the Supreme Court". Last I knew, two of the nine members were women.)
They really ARE willing to risk hundreds of thousands of state dollars on this? Hey, at least North Dakota has oil money swelling it's coffers to back up it's swagger. What's Kansas got? A drying up aquifer turning half the state into a desert.

Jonathan Fox 5 years, 2 months ago

"Opponents called the bill “dangerous” and said that it could increase instances of unsafe, illegal abortions."

This is the worst argument against abortion I've ever heard. This basically says that abortion shouldn't be illegal because people will do it anyway. I guess we should legalize murder, robbery, fraud, and just about every law we have because people do them anyway.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 2 months ago

So why was Prohibition repealed? More than that, every crime you mentioned involves a victim. Illegal abortion is a victimless crime that does nothing but lead to the death of women. It is, to put it bluntly, state sanctioned murder of women.
Unless you consider a zygote/embryo/fetus a "victim", in which case you are granting rights to a potential human being that are greater than and take precedence over the rights of a true, adult human being.

Glenn Reed 5 years, 2 months ago

I get where you're coming from. I shake my head whenever the gun nuts use that same argument with fully-automatic firearms.

Kate Rogge 5 years, 2 months ago

Fred. The argument isn't that people will have illegal abortions anyway. The argument is that if illegal abortions are the only abortion option available to pregnant girls and women they will be performed by unqualified people in unsafe conditions that will endanger the lives of the women who seek them. See? Illegal abortion means dangerous abortion.

Kate Rogge 5 years, 2 months ago

American women can either have safe and legal abortions where they stay alive, or we can outlaw abortion (or make it virtually impossible to obtain), so desperate women will have illegal abortions and a good many of them will be maimed or will die. Is that the whole point of the anti-abortion 2-cell person legislation? American women, our fellow citizens, Forced birth or bleed to death because the Faith2Action and anti-choice crowd want to kill women who chose abortion?

Looks like that to me. Abortion was legalized 40 years ago because women were dying from abortions. It was legalized because we recognized that women were DYING because they couldn't get safe and legal medical care to abort. Stone cold dead, woman and fetus both. Does that sound like a pro-life stance to you?

Mike1949 5 years, 2 months ago

fred; don't you pay any attention to history? In the 20's & 30s when abortion WAS illegal, there were hundreds if not thousands of women dying in back room makeshift operating rooms. You all tried Prohibition, that worked out well didn't it? You tried it with abortion already, and you all didn't learn from the first time.

I have NEVER seen a group of people who wants to take people's lives like the conservatives and the Bible thumpers!

JayhawkFan1985 5 years, 2 months ago

I don't appreciate it when people like Janet porter use inflammatory words to provoke an emotional reaction. Who wouldn't support a culture of life? Why is it that conservatives who support a culture of life refuse to support universal background checks on gun purchases? Why is it conservatives support the death penalty? Answer, they are not really for a culture of life any more than liberals. They just place different focus on protecting life. They want a big government to prevent abortions. They want a big government to execute some criminals. They want small government in terms of gun rights issues. Some anti abortion zealots even resort to murder as happened a few years ago in Wichita.

As for me, I believe life begins on your actual birthday...that's why we celebrate the anniversary of people's birth, not their conceptions.

Patriot2 5 years, 2 months ago

I do not consider my self a conservative nor a liberal. I am an individual that considers all issues and form my own decisions as an American, born under the laws of the land, the United States of America. These laws were decided long before my conception with fewer legislatures and far less expense. An issue does not appear before the Supreme Court overnight through some unknown route. It is discussed and recussed for YEARS before reaching that bench. Millions of tax payers money is spend just so a liberal can blame a conservative or a conservative blame a liberal over the outcome of an issue that neither really cares about. Its winning the battle no matter the battle, just win it! If the law was decided years ago, so be it. Don't be so hell bent on rewriting history, but pay more heed to preserving the future. The United States is near financial ruin, we do not need to tie up more money we don't have just to say I was involved, I was a participant. One hundred years from now no one, but law students studying perpetural motion and the rapid decline of America will really give a damn.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 2 months ago

I disagree with you. I am past the age of childbearing and really have no DIRECT stick in this fire. But I have three daughters and four granddaughters (to date. My two youngest children haven't started families yet.) Statistics say that 40% of women in this country, at some point in their lives, will have an abortion. Prior to Roe, 30,000 women died each year from illegal abortions. Now, less than a hundred women die each year from the procedure and in every case it's a situation where the pregnancy threatened the life of the woman and the abortion failed to save her. In fact, having an abortion is safer than going to the dentist. You put the numbers together and you can understand that I have a huge interest in this. And frankly, if you have any woman in your life that you care about, even as just a friend, you should care about it too.

UfoPilot 5 years, 2 months ago

Notice how no one here wants to comment on what abortion "IS". They dodge the topic by stating, "what about guns" or "What about the death penalty" or "All republicans are bad". Abortion is the death of a human being.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 2 months ago

Abortion is only the "death of a human being" when governments outlaw it and force women to put their lives in jeopardy, many of whom will lose the roll of the dice. If you are referring to the zygote/embryo/fetus, I challenge you to tell me how THIS is a "human being".And don't give me any "DNA" excuses either. DNA is nothing more than a template made of proteins that exists in everything on earth that has the "potential" to live. It even exists in dead people.

Michael LoBurgio 5 years, 2 months ago

The Biblical God is NOT pro-life, he advocates child murder, infanticide, child abuse and abortion:


Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention.  “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.  Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give?  Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.”  Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children.  God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry.  Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?

Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery.  This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.

Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.

Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.

2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?

gatekeeper 5 years, 2 months ago

The problem with so many religious zealots is that they haven't really read and studied the Bible very much. they go to church, listen to the sermons, and think they're all saved. If they actually read the book, they'd be pretty shocked. There's actually a great book out there, The Harlot By the Side of the Road, written by a guy that decided to start reading the Bible to his kids and was so shocked at the stories in the Old Testament that he wrote this book about all the shocking things you'll never learn in church.

Most Christians are very uneducated about their own religion.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 2 months ago

My favorite quote.
"Too many Christians treat the Bible like a EULA. They don't read it, they just scroll to the bottom and click "agree"."

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 2 months ago

Another favorite quote: "The next time someone asks if you know that Jesus died for your sins, say, "He DIES???? Man, I was reading that book!"."

gatekeeper 5 years, 2 months ago

Always love how some posters ^^^^^^^ feel the need to insult anyone they don't agree with and thinks everyone with a different view point is a lib that wants everything for free. Just because someone has a differening opinion than you doesn't mean you must be nasty and insulting.

Insulting others is what people do when they don't have a valid argument to make.

KUGreenMachine 5 years, 2 months ago

The same people that want government to stay out of their lives, are the ones that want government to get involved in the lives of others as long as it doesn't effect them. Total hypocrisy.

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