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Archive for Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Fiery debate over expansion of concealed carry, assertion of state gun rights as Kansas House advances bills

March 13, 2013

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— The Kansas House on Wednesday advanced gun bills that could produce a standoff between state and federal law officers, and open up campuses, classrooms and the Statehouse to concealed weapons.

Supporters said the bills would make Kansas safer and assert the constitutional right to bear arms. Opponents said the measures would endanger public safety and lead to costly litigation.

House BIll 2199, called the Second Amendment Protection Act, and House Bill 2055, expanding concealed carry, were approved on a voice vote. A record vote during final action is scheduled for Thursday.

The most heated debate surrounded HB 2199, which says that any personal firearm, accessory or ammunition that is owned or manufactured in Kansas and that remains in the state is not subject to federal law. And under the bill, federal authorities trying to enforce any kind of rule on such a firearm would face possible arrest and criminal charges.

Several legislators said pitting local law enforcement against federal officers would set up a dangerous situation and jeopardize the public.

State Rep. Virgil Weigle, D-Topeka, said he worked for 28 years in local, state and federal law enforcement.

"When I was a federal agent, I wanted to make sure the locals had my back," Weigle said. "What you are doing here is going to destroy that relationship."

State Rep. Diana Dierks, R-Salina, said, "I am appalled that we are even thinking of passing this bill. We still belong to the United States."

But state Rep. Brett Hildabrand, R-Shawnee, said Dierks was wrong. "The United States belongs to the citizens of Kansas, not the other way around," he said to a round of applause.

State Rep. Steven Becker, R-Buhler, a former judge, tried to amend the bill to remove the state authority over federal law and replace that with a provision that would direct the attorney general to defend Kansas gun rights in court.

State Rep. Blaine Finch, R-Ottawa, urged support of Becker's proposed change, saying, "Our beef is not with federal agents. Criminalizing their behavior is not the solution. Let's take the fight to the proper venue, the courts."

But opponents said Kansas needed to assert its sovereignty and that the federal government should be held in check.

State Rep. Allan Rothlisberg, R-Grandview Plaza, criticized federal authorities for their actions in deadly confrontations in Ruby Ridge in Idaho and the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas. "They get a lot of things wrong," he said.

Becker's amendment failed 59-60.

On HB 2250, concealed carry license holders would be allowed to carry their weapons in city, county and state buildings that didn't have adequate security, such as metal detectors and guards.

"If you can't provide security, let us carry," said state Rep. Ken Corbet, R-Topeka.

But opponents said the bill was coercing local governments to bend to the will of the Legislature. "That is exactly the opposite of what I thought the best government was about," said state Rep. Tom Moxley, R-Council Grove.

Universities, state-owned hospitals, nursing homes, community mental health centers and safety net clinics would be exempt from the law for four years.

But under another provision, universities and schools could decide whether to allow employees to bring their weapons to work.

State Rep. John Wilson, D-Lawrence, said since supporters argued that expansion of concealed carry improved safety, even around grade-schoolers, he proposed an amendment to allow concealed carry in the Capitol. The amendment was approved.

Comments

jayhawklawrence 1 year, 1 month ago

The Democrats have really screwed up the chance to promote gun safety in America in the way they politicized this issue.

We are not going to resolve this for a long time. This issue could put a Republican in the White House.

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IKU57 1 year, 1 month ago

You anti freedom people need to listen to people that had once lost their freedom.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/9RABZq5IoaQ?feature=player_embedded

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oldbaldguy 1 year, 1 month ago

'too small for a republic, too large for an insane asylum" comment made about South Carolina by one of its atttorney generals in the past.

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SDTPlant 1 year, 1 month ago

"Return with me to the thrilling days of yesteryear!" Who elected these clowns? Oh, wait, we did. Or, at least every TeaPartyParanoidSchizophrenicBirtherCenterOfTheCrazyUniverse constituent did. If you are one of those people, could you be persuaded to move closer to the coastal regions of this country?

Once again, read "What's the Matter With Kansas?" Then, next time, reflect back on your reading whilst you are standing in the polling place getting ready to color in your choice.

1

In_God_we_trust 1 year, 1 month ago

"understand that we need to close the loopholes and make some changes because the current laws dont work."

There are some things that can't be fixed with more laws. Infringement of the second amendment is not a loophole and is short sighted and dangerous. The second amendment has existed for over 200 years without "closing the loopholes". Loopholes and laws are not the problem. Guns and gun owners are not the problem. People that come to the conclusion and think that someone else is the problem, or that everyone else is their problem, instead of closely looking at themselves with individual accountability (to God), is the problem. Psychology teaches this corrupted concept model that the reason you feel bad is because someone else mistreated you, and it's their fault, so these people think they can be self-justified in reacting selfishly and violently without it ever being "their problem".

The Bill of Rights preamble states that it is an area for the Federal government to keep their hands off of. (This is why it is over 200 years old). Closing unconstitutional "loopholes", which is infringement of the second amendment, forms an illegal gun registry and then it becomes very easy to use Federal resources to attack the general population with gun confiscation. (The end of the second amendment freedoms and eventually, all of the rest of the Bill of Rights, which is the first 10 amendments). What if this happened while a Republican is in office, because of what the Democrats are trying to do now? This is a very dangerous game you play with the Constitution and violation of the Bill of Rights, and personal freedoms that I and any Constitutional thinking person would firmly reject. The Kansas bill simply seeks to support the Constitution and the Bill of Rights original intent.

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gogoplata 1 year, 1 month ago

I shouldn't even need the governments permission to carry a gun, get married to whoever I want, smoke weed or cigarettes, drive with out a seatbelt, etc. There are to many fools making to many rules. Both sides want to tell the other guy how to live. I wish people would quit trying to use government force to rule the lives of others.

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gogoplata 1 year, 1 month ago

Leftys - Pro Choice unless in involves guns, taxes for things like welfare etc.

Righties - Pro Choice unless it involves gays getting married, smoking weed, taxes for things like war etc.

I believe in freedom. If gay people want to smoke weed and get married, while carrying a gun it should not be against the law. Just because I may not agree with something does not mean there needs to be a law against it.

The people on here who only see the world through a "conservative" or "liberal" point of view seem hypocritical and childish.

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naturalist 1 year, 1 month ago

I suggest that the people here who believe that "The United States belongs to the citizens of Kansas, not the other way around," can just secede from the union. Good riddance.

1

voevoda 1 year, 1 month ago

There's a word for House Bill 2199: Treason.

1

In_God_we_trust 1 year, 1 month ago

Looks like the people who respect the Bill of Rights in the Constitution aren't going to stand by and let the anti-gun extremists destroy them.

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Mary Alexander 1 year, 1 month ago

jjt, yes you will be able to use your sign. If it is posted a ccw person will not bring their gun into the restaurant. That is the law. If someone does bring a gun into a restaurant with a sign and something happens it will be the person with the gun that will be jailed and will be held responsable etc... You will find most people who has a CCW will not break the law. I can said this because I am a holder of a CCW and I follow the law.

1

jimmyjms 1 year, 1 month ago

"But state Rep. Brett Hildabrand, R-Shawnee, said Dierks was wrong. "The United States belongs to the citizens of Kansas, not the other way around," he said to a round of applause."

So much stupid in such a short statement. Thanks, K-State!

1

neworleans 1 year, 1 month ago

"The United States belongs to the citizens of Kansas, not the other way around," he said to a round of applause.

I do not agree with the above statement...........sounds like the confederacy....who are these looney toon officials elected to take us down the wrong road........

Goodbye Kansas; I'm off to Texas...................

0

consumer1 1 year, 1 month ago

" State Rep. John Wilson, D-Lawrence, said since supporters argued that expansion of concealed carry improved safety, even around grade-schoolers, he proposed an amendment to allow concealed carry in the Capitol. The amendment was approved."

I guess that idea backfired on you didn't it. (pun intended)

0

georgiahawk 1 year, 1 month ago

Let them have all the constitutionally protected guns they can afford, it is their constitutional right. But there is no constitutional right to ammunition!

0

autie 1 year, 1 month ago

Guns don't kill people. bullets do.

0

Scott Bonnet 1 year, 1 month ago

Most embarassing state government in America.

6

jjt 1 year, 1 month ago

If this goes through will I be able to stop folk with (or with out) a permit coming into my restaurant by having a no gun sign on the door? What is my liability if their weapon goes off and hurts someone?

1

Alceste 1 year, 1 month ago

This stuff is actually rather amusing. We have to admit we've got some real first class rubes in our state legislature. We put them there, too.

4

jkr1739 1 year, 1 month ago

Bravo, Kansas House, Bravo ("slow clap" ) Its about time we stand up for our rights from the kommunist's currently in control of the federal government. I'm proud to be a Kansan today!

2

Paul R Getto 1 year, 1 month ago

Should the headline read "firey?"
You know, kinda like "bang bang you're dead."

0

Paul R Getto 1 year, 1 month ago

Only those who passed American Government should be allowed to run for office. It appears some of our dear legislators did not.

5

mikekt 1 year, 1 month ago

This issue won't be solved by us typing away because it is being created by lunatics in Topeka who obviously have too much time on their hands and a love of absolutist positions on gun control of any sort .....and a pointless need to confront the Feds and puff themselves up like some barn yard creation .

You can't tell the insane that they are nuts . They won't get it !!! They don't get it .

This will get solved when some other deranged idiot, who may or may not be a Ks House member, walks into the Capitol Building in Topeka and opens fire on them all, without announcing his or her intentions, so the victims can't go for their guns, as if they are in an old west street duel .

Or this will get resolved when the Feds move to retrieve an arrested official of theirs, by nationalizing the KS Guard, charging the disobedient with treason..... or sending in federal troops from Fort Riley, etc..

These people in the Ks House need to have their Prozac taken away before they start showing up at a local Post Office near you, to declair war on the entire world .

6

tange 1 year, 1 month ago

Secession from the Union is a simple and insignificant matter... that is, once one has seceded from oneself.

3

eugunieum 1 year, 1 month ago

The idiot that shot his wife knew he was not allowed to drink while carrying. I hope they pull his cch & charge him with a crime, the more serious the better. I am going to pass on this argument. But please remember my story about a local law enforcement officer who shot himself in the buttocks while re holstering his glock with finger in trigger guard. This happened at the FOP range several years ago. I don't think it made the news, but even the pros can make a mistake. Guns are an evil being, I know the other day my safe was open and one of my guns jumped out and started chasing me around the house saying clean me, clean me. Oh wait, I am lying. I hate it when that happens. Have a great debate in here. I am going to sit back and watch. ;)

2

hedshrinker 1 year, 1 month ago

yeah, just what we need...to enhance the outside world's belief that KS is reverting to 1800's Wild West. we'll show that big gov't they can't boss us Kansans around ....heard more mature discourse on the pre-school playground.

4

M. Lindeman 1 year, 1 month ago

You all spend more time and energy being concerned about CCW holders. Maybe redirecting some of that time and energy on thoses who use guns illegally.

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M. Lindeman 1 year, 1 month ago

Didn't take long for the idiotic posts to start.

4

toe 1 year, 1 month ago

Sure beats Colorado's nanny state agenda.

5

Richard Payton 1 year, 1 month ago

Does HB2199 cover all handmade saturday night specials made in Kansas?

0

L7 1 year, 1 month ago

Shoot first, ask questions later. Yup, much safer.

4

George_Braziller 1 year, 1 month ago

This is absurd. Doesn't matter if it's owned, or manufactured, and remains in the state, it's still subject to Federal law. I'd love to know how they plan to arrest an FBI agent and file criminal charges if he or she is enforcing Federal laws.

Let's just turn the Kansas clock back to 1875. It seems like that has been the agenda on multiple fronts for the legislature this session.

"The most heated debate surrounded HB 2199, which says that any personal firearm, accessory or ammunition that is owned or manufactured in Kansas and that remains in the state is not subject to federal law. And under the bill, federal authorities trying to enforce any kind of rule on such a firearm would face possible arrest and criminal charges."

7

costello 1 year, 1 month ago

"But opponents said Kansas needed to assert its sovereignty and that the federal government should be held in check.

"State Rep. Allan Rothlisberg, R-Grandview Plaza, criticized federal authorities for their actions in deadly confrontations in Ruby Ridge in Idaho and the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas. 'They get a lot of things wrong,' he said."

The Kansas legislature is going to hold the federal government in check, eh?

2

Hooligan_016 1 year, 1 month ago

So how many state tax $$$ are they going to waste defending this idiotic bill in court? (HB2199)

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