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Archive for Thursday, April 18, 2013

Advocates from both sides of gun control debate discuss with community

April 18, 2013

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Those interested in gun control laws heard an unusual amount of agreement Wednesday night at the Dole Institute of Politics.

The Dole Institute’s Student Advisory Board hosted a conversation between Patricia Stoneking, president of the Kansas State Rifle Association, and Allen Rostron, a law professor at University of Missouri-Kansas City. Rostron agreed with many of Stoneking’s opinions on gun control. Rostron, formerly a senior staff attorney at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said he tried to find the truth in between the opposing sides of the gun control debate.

“It’s more effective to not be extreme,” he said. “Spouting anti-gun rhetoric is great for the people who already agree with you, but you’ll lose the people who don’t agree or are in the middle.”

Lexi Clark, student advisory board coordinator, moderated the conversation, asking questions that were part of a student survey the institute recently took.

Stoneking and Rostron agreed that Second Amendment protects both the states’ rights to raise militias and individuals’ right to own guns, but Rostron said the mistake that is often made is looking at the amendment as a state-only right or individual-only right.

“We can have a strong Second Amendment right,” he said. “It should come with good, sensible gun laws as well.”

On the matter of gun education for children, both agreed that parents should primarily be responsible for teaching their children about guns. Stoneking said the National Rifle Association’s Eddy the Eagle gun safety program should be allowed in schools to help educate children. Rostron cautioned that many gun education programs do not work as well as educators hope.

One point the two disagreed on was how high-caliber ammunition should be regulated. Rostron said he believes some high-caliber ammunition should be put under that National Firearms Act because there is a substantial difference in the danger it poses. Stoneking said the placement of the shot matters more than the caliber of the bullet used.

“The .22 was the caliber of choice for mafia hit men,” she said. “I don’t think limiting the caliber will make any difference.”

The discussion could not have come at a better time. Wednesday the U.S. Senate blocked a bipartisan bill that would expand background checks for new gun owners.

This week Gov. Sam Brownback signed two laws designed to expand gun rights. One allows concealed carry of weapons into most public buildings in the state. The second, the Second Amendment Protection Act, declares Kansas-made firearms immune from federal regulations inside that state.

Comments

Steven Gaudreau 12 months ago

Why would you think a mentally ill criminal would obey laws? Obviously he won't, he is behaving in an anti social way, laws mean nothing. So you think gun laws will stop him. How? He is a criminal and criminals can just as easily buy illegal guns as he can a legal gun.

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Steven Gaudreau 12 months ago

Bomb laws don't stop killers and neither do gun laws. Killers are killers and nothing you do will ever change it. Is it hard to buy pot? Not for anyone who wants it. Why not, its illegal isn't it? They are arrest people every for pot, and yet, it is available to anyone who wants it. How is that possible with all the laws?

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BitterClinger 12 months ago

Licensed firearms dealers are required to do background checks at gun shows and when you buy a gun on the internet. So technically a felon cannot buy a gun at a gun show or on the internet. However, felons always seem to get guns anyway. Maybe they don't obey the laws we already have in place.

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mikekt 1 year ago

They should have made the third amendment ( which came after the second one, the universal right to drive a car !!! Or how about the unlimited right to fly any airplane ???

Then you wouldn't have to take a drivers license written test and driving examination, ...you could legally drive under the influence, ....you could speed anytime that you chose to,... or drive recklessly,..... never get a ticket .....and those pedestrians would have to learn to stay out of your way ! .....Screw the DMV and the FAA ! Just do it !

Don't you think that doing away with drivers licenses, would increase auto production and make jobs that aren't already their, just appear magically ?

Where is the current evidence to support the idea that plane crashes and auto accident would increase, if anyone could just jump behind the wheel or the rudder without certification,.... if they were else wise law abiding folks, in 2013 ?

Just ask yourself, did not having a pilots license stop the terrorist from destroying the World Trade Center or part of the Pentagon ? I mean, be creative ! Stretch that envelope and help a felon or the mentally ill person to walk into a gun show and buy one with no questions asked !

Thank God that cars and airplanes hadn't been invented, back then, so the rest of us wouldn't have to put up with so called sane, law abiding citizens, who have never been convicted of anything, just jumping behind the wheel of a car or airplane rudder, at their own unrestricted discretion,......or sitting down, in the captains seat, at their own whim, of a jumbo jet full of live passengers at take off !

After all, we already have enough to worry about with careless dumb neighbors, who fail to secure their firearms from children, who are clueless of course & the complete idiots who make fully automatic weapons accessible to their mentally ill adult children, who turn around and kill them, for their second amendment troubles,........ and lots of other innocent people, children, who were just in the wrong place, at a good time, for a insane killer, to kill them .

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Cait McKnelly 1 year ago

One of the biggest advocates for the NRA; a multimillionaire who has been a member since 1975, has resigned from the NRA's board of directors and the organization.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/18/adolphus-busch-iv-nra_n_3112750.html
In his resignation, Adolphus Busch IV, an avid hunter and gun sportsman stated, "The NRA I see today has undermined the values upon which it was established," wrote Busch, who also dropped his NRA membership. "Your current strategic focus clearly places priority on the needs of gun and ammunition manufacturers while disregarding the opinions of your 4 million individual members."
The heir to the beer fortune also said, "It disturbs me greatly to see this rigid new direction of the NRA." He singled out the gun lobby's reversal of its 1999 position in favor of universal background checks, as well as its opposition to an assault weapons ban and a ban on high-capacity magazines. "I am simply unable to comprehend how assault weapons and large capacity magazines have a role in your vision," he wrote."

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Agnostick 1 year ago

From comedian John Oliver of "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" on Comedy Central.

From comedian John Oliver of "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" on Comedy Central. by Agnostick

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Agnostick 1 year ago

LarryNative...

We can't stop every attack... but we can stop a lot of them.

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Steven Gaudreau 1 year ago

Would stricter bomb laws have stopped the Boston attack?

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Dispersant 1 year ago

(let's re-visit a certain argument having to do with the recent i.d. law for voting)

"You need an i.d. for everything! I need to show mine to cash a check, drive, etc.... I find it perfectly acceptable to need one to vote" Can't we use the same discussion for background checks? "I need to pass a background check to rent a house, get a loan, get a job, etc... I find it perfectly acceptable to pass one to buy a gun" ???

How come it's ok to require an i.d. to vote but not pass a background check for acquiring a firearm? Isn't it the same idea?

hy·poc·ri·sy (h-pkr-s) n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies 1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness. 2. An act or instance of such falseness.

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Nikonman 1 year ago

Does anyone have any idea how many guns (all types) are in the USA at present, not counting those owned by police or the military services? I suspect the number is so high that gun control is futile. The only way to fix this is to confiscate all guns from everyone, shut down the gun companies,gun shows, retailers and make all guns illegal under any circumstance. Also shut down all ammunition plants except for those making ammunition specifically for the police & military services. All the other support companies (parts, etc.) would just fade away. And we also know this is not going to happen, right?

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grill 1 year ago

"With the total and complete defeat of gun control legislation late Wednesday afternoon, the media learned something they had obviously forgotten since pushing Obama over the reelection finish line: They do not run the country. And from what we are seeing across the media landscape since the handing down of this defeat (which was followed by a full-blown presidential hissy fit), this realization has been quite a slap to the face.

The first mistake the media-complex made was the decision to immediately make the National Rifle Association the "Newtown Bogeyman." This happened even before the bodies had been removed and was an immediate "tell" into the media's motives. This wasn't going to be about protecting children, this was going to be yet-another culture war launched to marginalize the dreaded NRA and hand Obama a win.

This was also a media so full of its own power, they simply assumed they could exploit another tragedy into yet-another another Us vs. Them cultural victory. Out of the box, though, the plan was tactically stupid..."

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/04/18/How-the-Media-Blew-the-Gun-Control-Debate

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Lynn731 1 year ago

One could not have found a better person to debate our second amendment rights than Patricia Stoneking. This lady knows guns, the constitution, and politics from top to bottom. A few years ago I was writing a letter to try and help the students get concealed carry on campus. Pat let me know in no uncertain terms that the wording I used was not what they wanted. The students did not tell me what was needed, but she sure did. Since then I have had the utmost respect for this lady. We came to agreement very quickly, and I have counted her as a good friend ever since. We are indeed fortunate to have her in our corner.

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Centerville 1 year ago

There are increasing official reports that thugs are breaking into occupied Lawrence homes. When you dig though the pile of emoting, this issue is the one that settles the issue.

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carp 1 year ago

Time to get over the fixation of an inanimate object(guns) and recognize that America has a violence problem. Maybe if our government started addressing the why instead of the what, things might get better in this country. Time to reevaluate our failed war on drugs, reducing drug related violence. Not saying all violence is drug related, but if we could reduce the crime linked to the buying and selling of drugs we'd put a big dent in violent crime in this country.

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Uhlrick_Hetfield_III 1 year ago

During the Clinton era Bill finally figured out that gun control was a loser for Democrats and so he dropped this foolishness. The SNL skit they did on gun control is a blatant admission where the votes are. The people do not support gun control nation wide. Heidi Heitkamp, the newly minted Democratic Senator from North Dakota voted against gun control. Do you actually think she could get re-elected ever in North Dakota voting for gun control?

People nationwide are buying weapons at a feverish pace and they're setting records for obtaining concealed carry permits. Do we actually think they're doing that so they can support gun control?

The President needs to get busy on the economy and forget all of these distractions. he should be showing the way to economic prosperity, not tilting at windmills. That was Bill Clinton's great secret and is still revered as a great leader in spite of his personal problems.

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Iwetmypants 1 year ago

I support and applaud Patricia Stonekings tireless work on supporting 2A rights in Kansas. Contrary to what that lying liar Ovomit tells us, 80% of Americans DO NOT support more gun laws. Even the weasle Harry Reid didn't support the bill. There are many people like me that will do whatever it takes to support our rights, and that these rights "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"!

Assault rifles and high capacity magazines had as much to do with the Sandy Hook murders as a pressure cooker had to do with the Boston Marathon bombing. What now liberals, do we out law cooking utensils? Do you want to legislate pots and pans? Both tragedies are the work of evil criminals, period.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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JSpizias 1 year ago

I applaud the decision by the US Senate on the Manchin-Toomey proposal. It was a very bad bill, would have done nothing to prevent gun violence, and four Democrats helped ensure that it did not become law. Law Professor and expert on Second Amendment law discussed the problems with the bill at the Volokh.com law blog.

http://www.volokh.com/2013/04/15/the-pro-gun-provisions-of-manchin-toomey-are-actually-a-bonanza-of-gun-control/

Which is the more rational, and more likely successful, approach to dealing with gun violence?

1. ..."In the hours before the vote, Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) also attempted to rally last-minute support for the bill by issuing an ominous warning to his colleagues. “If tragedy strikes again…if innocents are gunned down in a classroom, theater or restaurant, I would have trouble living with myself as a senator, as a husband, a father, or grandfather and friend, knowing that I didn’t do everything in my power to prevent that incident,” Reid said."

2. From a peer reviewed publication (American Behavioral Scieintist) by one of the most outstanding researchers on guns and violence. http://www.amazon.com/Point-Blank-Guns-Violence-America/dp/020230762X Gary Kleck Mass Shootings in Schools The Worst Possible Case for Gun Control Florida State University, Tallahassee Abstract

The most frequent policy lesson drawn following the Columbine school shootings was the need for more gun controls. Review of the details of both Columbine and other contemporary school shootings indicates, however, that the specific gun control measures proposed in their aftermath were largely irrelevant and almost certainly could not have prevented the incidents or reduced their death tolls. These measures included restrictions on gun shows, child access prevention laws mandating locking up guns, and bans on assault weapons. Ironically, exploitation of school shootings for the advocacy of irrelevant gun controls may have obscured the genuine merits of various gun control measures for reducing “ordinary” gun violence. Thus, mass school shootings provided the worst possible basis for supporting gun control.

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lawrenceguy40 1 year ago

barry o has made his career out of lies and untruths. It was rewarding to watch him last night lying once again in the face of defeat.

If people fear getting shot, grow a spine and go buy a gun to protect you and yours.

We can also rejoice in yesterday's news from the Senate. toomey, collins, mccain and kirk had better start thinking about new vocations.

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TongiJayhawk 1 year ago

Funny how majority rule is hand picked depending on the subject. I guess since majority rules, we should dump Obamacare

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

Reports national telephone survey finds that 47% of Likely U.S. Voters now view the health care law favorably, while 49% have an unfavorable opinion of it. This includes 18% who regard the law Very Favorably and twice as many (35%) with a Very Unfavorable view.

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KSManimal 1 year ago

It matters not that a "majority" support universal background checks. The Bill of Rights exists to protect citizens from a tyranny of the majority. If you don't like it, work to amend it or repeal it. But don't try to legislate end-runs around it. If we go down that road, we might as well toss the entire document in the trash for all it will be worth.

That being said, can anyone name a mass shooting that would have been prevented by universal background checks?

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skinny 1 year ago

I think what we've forgotten is that WE live in a free country. If you don't like it, leave!! I will NOT allow anyone to infringe on MY rights!! I've lost family members in the armed services fighting for these rights and I will not give them up without a fight.

I think we have also forgotten that if someone wants to cause large causalities they will find a way. Look at the Boston Marathon!!!! Explosives are illegal but yet I can go to the grocery store and buy the stuff to make a bomb.

Wake up people. Trying to take away or restrict my right to purchase and own a firearm is not going to fix the mental illness in this country!! It is time to take another approach like requiring or allowing Law Enforcement access to mental health records so that when a medical professional comes across a patient that it mentally ill and poses a threat, the real professionals can take action!!

Thank you NRA!!

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tomatogrower 1 year ago

Most of them work for the NRA or corporations. They don't even bother listening to the people anymore.

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kernal 1 year ago

This Congress may go down in history as one of the most corrupt, irresponsible and moronic in the history of our country.

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Salbo 1 year ago

“It’s more effective to not be extreme,” he said. “Spouting anti-gun rhetoric is great for the people who already agree with you, but you’ll lose the people who don’t agree or are in the middle.”

Harry Reid spouted "anti-gun" twice trying to pass this useless, feel good law.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/16/senate-majority-leader-harry-reid-calls-weapons-bi/

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Michael LoBurgio 1 year ago

Cowardly U.S. Senate thwarts will of public on gun safety

The U.S. Senate’s handling of a gun safety package was cowardly and contemptible.

With a series of procedural votes, most Republican senators and a handful of Democrats opted Wednesday afternoon to not even debate modest gun safety measures. They included a bipartisan bill to close the loophole that allows people to purchase weapons at gun shows without a background check. Proposals to limit the size of gun magazines and to ban some of the most deadly assault weapons were also struck down without debate.

“All in all, this was a pretty shameful day in Washington,” President Barack Obama said in a news conference.

A very shameful day. What kind of a governing body responds to a national crisis by refusing to even discuss it openly and publicly?

On the background check measure, 54 senators voted to advance the bill, 46 voted against. Republicans Pat Roberts and Jerry Moran of Kansas

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/04/17/4187494/cowardice-on-gun-safety.html

http://www2.ljworld.com/users/photos/2013/apr/18/253319/

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