Archive for Tuesday, October 16, 2012

Face to face: Obama, Romney in crackling debate

October 16, 2012, 9:47 p.m. Updated October 17, 2012, 12:05 a.m.


— An aggressive President Barack Obama accused challenger Mitt Romney of peddling a “sketchy deal” to fix the U.S. economy and playing politics with the deadly terrorist attack in Libya in a Tuesday night debate crackling with energy and emotion just three weeks before the election.

Romney pushed back hard, saying the middle class “has been crushed over the last four years” under Obama’s leadership and that 23 million Americans are still struggling to find work. He contended the death of the U.S. ambassador to Libya was part of an unraveling of the administration’s foreign policy.

The president was feistier from the outset than he had been in their initial encounter two weeks ago, when he turned in a listless performance that sent shudders through his supporters and helped fuel a rise by Romney in opinion polls nationally and in some battleground states.

When Romney said Tuesday night that he had a five-point plan to create 12 million jobs, Obama said, “Gov. Romney says he’s got a five-point plan. Gov. Romney doesn’t have a five-point plan. He has a one-point plan. And that plan is to make sure that folks at the top play by a different set of rules.”

Obama and Romney disagreed, forcefully and repeatedly — about taxes, the bailout of the auto industry, measures to reduce the deficit, energy, pay equity for women and health care as well as foreign policy across 90 minutes of a town-hall style debate.

Immigration prompted yet another clash, Romney saying Obama had failed to pursue the comprehensive legislation he promised at the dawn of his administration, and the president saying Republican obstinacy made a deal impossible.

Romney gave as good as he got.

“You’ll get your chance in a moment. I’m still speaking,” the former Massachusetts governor said at one point while Obama was mid-sentence, drawing a gasp from the audience. He said the president’s policies had failed to jumpstart the economy and had cramped energy production.

The open-stage format left the two men free to stroll freely across a red-carpeted stage, and they did. Their clashes crackled with energy and tension, and the crowd watched raptly as the two sparred while struggling to appear calm and affable before a national television audience.

While most of the debate was focused on policy differences, there was one more-personal moment, when Obama said Romney had investments in China.

“Mr. President, have you looked at your pension?” Romney interrupted.

“You know, I don’t look at my pension. It’s not as big as yours,” shot back Obama to his wealthier rival.

Obama noted Romney’s business background to rebut his opponent’s plans to fix the economy and prevent federal deficits from climbing ever higher.

“Now, Gov. Romney was a very successful investor. If somebody came to you, Governor, with a plan that said, here, I want to spend $7 or $8 trillion, and then we’re going to pay for it, but we can’t tell you until maybe after the election how we’re going to do it, you wouldn’t take such a sketchy deal and neither should you, the American people, because the math doesn’t add up.”

Countered Romney, a few minutes later, “It does add up.”

Under the format agreed to in advance, members of an audience of 82 uncommitted voters posed questions to the president and his challenger.

Nearly all of them concerned domestic policy until one raised the subject of the recent death of the U.S. ambassador to Libya in a terrorist attack at an American post in Benghazi. Romney said it took Obama a long time to admit the episode had been a terrorist attack, but Obama said he had said so the day after in an appearance in the Rose Garden outside the White House.

When moderator Candy Crowley of CNN said the president had in fact done so, Obama, prompted, “Say that a little louder, Candy.”

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has taken responsibility for the death of Ambassador L. Christopher Stevens and three other Americans, but Obama said bluntly, “I’m the president, and I’m always responsible.”

Romney said it was “troubling” that Obama continued with a campaign event in Las Vegas on the day after the attack in Libya, an event the Republican said had “symbolic significance and perhaps even material significance.”

Obama seemed to bristle. He said it was offensive for anyone to allege that he or anyone in his administration had used the incident for political purposes. “That’s not what I do.”

According to the transcript, Obama said on Sept. 12, “No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for.”

One intense exchange focused on competing claims about whether energy production is increasing or slowing. Obama accused Romney of misrepresenting what has happened — a theme he returned to time and again. Romney strode across the stage to confront Obama face to face, just feet from the audience.

Both men pledged a better economic future to a young man who asked the first question, a member of a pre-selected audience of 82 uncommitted voters.

Then the president’s determination to show a more aggressive side became evident.

“That’s been his philosophy in the private sector,” Obama said of his rival. “That’s been his philosophy as governor. That’s been his philosophy as a presidential candidate. You can make a lot of money and pay lower tax rates than somebody who makes a lot less.”

“You can ship jobs overseas and get tax breaks for it. You can invest in a company, bankrupt it, lay off the workers, strip away their pensions and you still make money. That’s exactly the philosophy that we’ve seen in place for the last decade,” the president said in a scorching summation.

Unable to respond at length because of the debate’s rules, Romney said the accusations were “way off the mark.”

But moments later, he reminded the national television audience of the nation’s painfully slow recovery from the worst recession in decades.

There are “23 million people struggling to find a job. ... The president’s policies have been exercised over the last four years and they haven’t put America back to work,” he said. “We have fewer people working today than when he took office.”

Economic growth has been slow throughout Obama’s term in office, and unemployment only recently dipped below 8 percent for the first time since he moved into the White House. Romney noted that if out-of-work Americans who no longer look for jobs were counted, the unemployment rate would be 10.7 percent.

Both men had rehearsed extensively for the encounter, a turnabout for Obama.

“I had a bad night,” the president conceded, days after he and Romney shared a stage for the first time, in Denver. His aides made it known he didn’t intend to be as deferential to his challenger this time, and the presidential party decamped for a resort in Williamsburg, Va., for rehearsals that consumed the better part of three days.

Romney rehearsed in Massachusetts and again after arriving on Long Island on debate day, with less to make up for.

Asked Tuesday night by one member of the audience how he would differ from former President George W. Bush, the last Republican to hold the office, Romney said, “We are different people and these are different times.”

He said he would attempt to balance the budget, something Bush was unsuccessful in doing, get tougher on China and work more aggressively to expand trade.

Obama jumped in with his own predictions — not nearly as favorable to the man a few feet away on stage. He said the former president didn’t attempt to cut off federal funding for Planned Parenthood or turn Medicare into a voucher system.

Though the questions were from undecided voters inside the hall — in a deeply Democratic state — the audience that mattered most watched on television and was counted in the tens of millions. Crucially important: viewers in the nine battlegrounds where the race is likely to be settled.

The final debate, next Monday in Florida, will be devoted to foreign policy.

Opinion polls made the race a close one, with Obama leading in some national surveys and Romney in others. Despite the Republican’s clear gains in surveys in recent days, the president led in several polls of Wisconsin and Ohio, two key Midwestern battlegrounds where Romney and running mate Paul Ryan are campaigning heavily.

Barring a last-minute shift in the campaign, Obama is on course to win states and the District of Columbia that account for 237 of the 270 electoral votes needed for victory. The same is true for Romney in states with 191 electoral votes.

The remaining 110 electoral votes are divided among the hotly contested battleground states of Florida (29), North Carolina (15), Virginia (13) New Hampshire (4), Iowa (6), Colorado (9), Nevada (6), Ohio (18) and Wisconsin (10).

Obama has campaigned in the past several days by accusing Romney of running away from some of the conservative positions he took for tax cuts and against abortion earlier in the year when he was trying to win the Republican nomination.

“Maybe you’re wondering what to believe about Mitt Romney,” says one ad, designed to remind voters of the Republican’s strong opposition to abortion except in cases of rape, incest or when the life of the mother is at stake.

Romney countered by stressing both in person and through his television advertising the slow pace of the economic recovery, which has left growth sluggish and unemployment high throughout Obama’s term. Joblessness recently declined to 7.8 percent, dropping below 8 percent for the first time since the president took office.


jhawkinsf 5 years, 2 months ago

Already the Obama supporters are saying he won debate while Romney supporters say he won. Knock me over with a feather.

jhawkinsf 5 years, 2 months ago

"Unaffiliated judges" Frankly, I find it hard to believe that there are still uncommitted voters, except perhaps those that don't even know an election is upcoming. Barack who? Mitt who?

But just for fun, sure, let's check back tomorrow.

beatrice 5 years, 2 months ago

I absolutely agree! How can anyone not know who they favor at this point? However, Obama won.

To make it more interesting, next debate must end not with final words, but with a dance off!

DanR 5 years, 2 months ago

Can you not form an opinion of your own, jhinsf? Romney was ten times worse than Obama was in the first debate. No plan, no ideas, a bunch of snake oil, and a binder full of women who need to get home to make dinner.

Check back on the morning of November 7th. That'll be even more fun.

jhawkinsf 5 years, 2 months ago

DanR - Can I form an opinion of my own, you ask. Yes. That's why I rarely vote for either Democrats or Republicans. I seek out candidates and parties that most represent my ideas. The two major political parties rarely hold that distinction.

It doesn't matter who wins in November. I already know who will lose. And that's democracy. We've been hijacked by the two major political parties. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say two parties and nowhere does it say Democrats and Republicans. They hold on to power with more passion than they're supposed passion for America. If it's winning you're so concerned with, then go to a horse race.

jhawkinsf 5 years, 2 months ago

Gandalf - I must concede that it appears those unaffiliated judges have gone the way you predicted. Now, please, tell me the winning numbers for the next lottery. Please. :-)

AS 5 years, 2 months ago

Both candidates came out swinging, but I have to say I felt Romney was disrespectful most times. The President has clear disdain for him, yet found a way to maintain composure. It would be great if Romney meant what he said tonight but he is just not genuine.

Shelley Bock 5 years, 2 months ago

I am sick and tired of the birther or "back to Kenya" comments. That question has been answered.

Anyone who still thinks it is cute to throw in a comment about the President's heritage is either an idiot or a racist. No equivocation by me on this. The continued assertion that he isn't an American defies the facts or establishes that your persistence shows that you can't stand someone of color as the chief executive.

It isn't funny any more, Sageon.

Shelley Bock 5 years, 1 month ago

There is not MUCH to be settled. Proof of his birth has been established by all normal procedures. Nothing has been presented, except the conjecture of inventive minds in fictional overdrive. Why hasn't Señor Mitt Romney's Mexican heritage been equally investigated?

In reality, all has been settled, both candidates satisfy Constitutional requirements to be President. End of story.

beatrice 5 years, 1 month ago

KC, shockingly, the moderator refuses to recognize the obvious.

Armstrong 5 years, 2 months ago

Barry still can't defend his multiple failures / record. It was nice to see Barry in something other then a catatonic state however.

beatrice 5 years, 2 months ago

Romney is looking desperate trying to make something more out of the terror attack in Libya that what it was. I hate to say this, but Americans have already moved on. Romney lost the debate more because of this than anything else. Obama stopped the bleeding from the last debate performance.

Obama won.

SnakeFist 5 years, 2 months ago

I agree; most of the country doesn't care about Libya or Fast and Furious, so Romney's attacks in those regards failed to score for anyone other than his base.

SnakeFist 5 years, 2 months ago

Take a Geritol and calm down. I didn't think you were allowed to stay up this late.

fiddleback 5 years, 2 months ago

Never used Geritol, but I know that like many drugs it comes in both forms. And maybe you missed what it means to be the object of ridicule, but you're never the person who's expected to laugh.

Katara 5 years, 2 months ago

So now that the Mods have removed the comments making fun of SageonPage, I wonder when they are going to remove the racist comment he made about our President.

He waited too long to edit it this time.

riverdrifter 5 years, 2 months ago

Needs to lay off the Viagra and take more Geritol.

Katara 5 years, 2 months ago

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Katara 5 years, 2 months ago

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fiddleback 5 years, 2 months ago

Again, Sage, if you're unclear how to ingest a tablet, Geritol or otherwise, into your speaking orifice, just consult a physician. Most people wash it down with a beverage, though feel free to explore other lubricating agents.

SnakeFist 5 years, 2 months ago

By the way, 46% say Obama won the debate, 39% say Romney won, according to the CNN poll.

Here, let me help you wipe the silly off your face.

Katara 5 years, 2 months ago

Using the female word for sibling as an insult. Interesting.

There used to be a guy on this forum who questioned the masculinity of male posters and politicians.

Katara 5 years, 2 months ago

It doesn't come off. It is a permanent feature.

fiddleback 5 years, 2 months ago

Sage, I presume you said the last line to the cardboard cutout of Mitt pinned to the wall of your shack? Will you be swearing him in as well or should the esteemed Big Mouth Billy Bass do the honors?

I always enjoy the ongoing self-caricature but you sound a bit panicked. Maybe try some deep breaths and read up on how the Dems survived 2004....or build your bunker... whatever you do, just don't call my humor an amateurish failure. I just couldn't bear your disapproval.

fiddleback 5 years, 2 months ago

Now you've done it. So hurtful, esp. the caps...

SnakeFist 5 years, 2 months ago

CBS poll: 37% Obama, 30% Romney.

What were you saying about "when the polling on this debate is done"?

riverdrifter 5 years, 2 months ago

Romney is what he is: a very wealthy trickle-down supply sider. He offers nothing to 95% of the voters. Memo to you folks making eh, say a quarter million a year: you are the cash cow he's going after. Go ahead. Vote for that (R)...

SnakeFist 5 years, 2 months ago

Obama clearly won, though not by a huge amount. Romney came across as too defensive and overly aggressive, but he was still a lot better than in his past primary debates. Obama was much calmer and more composed than Romney, except on the Libya issue when he displayed the right amount of indignation.

riverdrifter 5 years, 2 months ago

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beatrice 5 years, 2 months ago

Yep, when all else fails, blame the media. Typical victim attitude of conservatives everywhere. Obama won. Deal with it.

riverdrifter 5 years, 2 months ago

8 years of of a bidness man in the the White House and you want more. Jesus.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 2 months ago

Wrong. Crowley in no way said that "Romney was right." What she said was that Obama did not call what happened a specific "act of terror". His exact words were "No acts of terror...". But I fully expect you, and your ilk, to nit pick words for the spin.
God but you make me think of that slime ball Karl Rove. You will probably consider that a compliment. I don't.

DanR 5 years, 2 months ago

When the audience turns on you, it's over.

beatrice 5 years, 2 months ago

Just heard uber conservative Pat Buchanan on Fox say that Obama won. Even Karl Rove criticized Romney's debate, although he called it a "draw." Now, if Karl Rove is calling it a draw on Fox News, what does that tell ya?

Obama won. One more to go.

beatrice 5 years, 2 months ago

If you want to engage in adult conversation, stop calling our president a childish name. If you continue, you will only be taken as a fool.

Katara 5 years, 2 months ago

Wow. The dog whistles are blowing right and left!

beatrice 5 years, 1 month ago

I didn't say anything about honoring anyone. I said you shouldn't call others childish names like you are eight years old. It was about you, not Obama.

Katara 5 years, 2 months ago

Hmmm... more very thinly veiled racism and the Mods still let this stand?

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 2 months ago

The truly CLEAR winner? Candy Crowley!
"I think it's interesting, the president said something which is on the day after the attack he went in the Rose Garden -- and said this was an act of terror," Romney said, looking at Obama.
"That's what I said," Obama retorted.
"You said it was an act of terror, it was not a spontaneous demonstration, is that what you're saying?" Romney responded.
To which Crowley responded: "He did, in fact, sir. He did call it an act of terror. It did, as well, take two weeks or so for the whole idea of their being a riot out there about this tape to come out."

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 2 months ago

The biggest, fattest, most absolute "pants on fire" lie of the night? This by Romney.
"I just know that I don't think bureaucrats in Washington should tell someone whether they can use contraceptives or not, and I don't believe employers should tell someone whether they have contraceptive care or not."
"Every woman in America should have access to contraceptives and the president's statement on my policy is completely and totally wrong."

Mike Ford 5 years, 2 months ago

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Armstrong 5 years, 2 months ago

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Bob Forer 5 years, 2 months ago

"Binders full of women" - another lie, of course.

What actually happened was that in 2002—prior to the election, not even knowing yet whether it would be a Republican or Democratic administration—a bipartisan group of women in Massachusetts formed MassGAP to address the problem of few women in senior leadership positions in state government. There were more than 40 organizations involved with the Massachusetts Women’s Political Caucus (also bipartisan) as the lead sponsor.

They did the research and put together the binder full of women qualified for all the different cabinet positions, agency heads, and authorities and commissions. They presented this binder to Governor Romney when he was elected.

Romney’s claim last night, that he asked for such a study, is false.

Oh, and once he had those binders? He hired women for agencies he then cut the funding for.

There were actually fewer women in executive positions when Romney left office than there were when he started.

That scant man can't tell the truth about anything.

beatrice 5 years, 1 month ago

I wasn't arguing with him. Rather, I was pointing out something obvious, much as one would to a little child. Now what is wrong with trying to help a child?

Bob Forer 5 years, 1 month ago

I am sick and tired of all the liberturds and their lies that Governor Romney's tax plan is void of specifics. They are right here. Check it out yourself.

costello 5 years, 1 month ago

Why do I feel like we've finally slipped completely into the reality tv talent show version of democracy? Maybe after the next debate, the viewers should phone in their votes, and we can settle this thing early.

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