Advertisement

Archive for Sunday, May 27, 2012

National group seeks repeal of ‘Stand Your Ground’ law in Kansas

May 27, 2012

Advertisement

— A national coalition will push for repeal of a Kansas law that is similar to one at the center of controversy in the slaying of a Florida teen.

The Second Chance on Shoot First campaign seeks to repeal or reform so-called “Stand Your Ground” laws that give people the authority to defend themselves using lethal force if they have a reasonable fear of death or serious harm.

The law has come under scrutiny after the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla. Martin was shot and killed during a confrontation with George Zimmerman. Zimmerman has claimed self-defense. He has been charged with second-degree murder.

Twenty-six states, including Kansas, have such laws.

“Trayvon Martin’s killing in Florida has focused public attention on the consequences of these reckless laws,” said Ginny Simmons, director of the Second Chance on Shoot First campaign.

“People carrying guns now feel emboldened to resolve conflicts with firearms even if they could safely walk away, and police and prosecutors are uncertain about which shootings may be instances of legitimate self-defense and which are murders,” Simmons said.

Simmons said that in Florida, the number of “justifiable homicides” have tripled since enactment of the law.

Second Chance on Shoot First campaign has sent letters to all Kansas legislators, urging them to repeal or reform the law.

The Second Chance on Shoot First campaign partners include the NAACP, National Urban League, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, ColorOfChange, National Action Network, Lawyers’ Committee for Civil and Human Rights and VoteVets.

Comments

tbaker 1 year, 10 months ago

People facing mortal danger from another person have a unalienable right to defend themselves and respond in kind whether there is a law on the books or not.

0

Flap Doodle 1 year, 10 months ago

The People's Republic of Illinois does not allow its subjects to legally carry firearms. The Second Amendment has been more or less suspended in Chicago for decades. Illinois is rather non-typical compared to the rest of America when it comes to firearms. Your google-fu is weak.

0

jafs 1 year, 10 months ago

A quick google search provides a couple of interesting tidbits:

An Illinois SYG law has been in effect since 1961 - there's a chart showing the result on violent crime - it increased substantially until the 1990's or so, and then decreased, but it's still higher than it was in '61.

Strangely enough, the person writing an article pointed to the chart as evidence that SYG laws decrease violent crime - huh? It's in fact no such evidence, and evidence of the contrary.

In FL, it looks as though there may have been a decrease in violent crime, but also an increase in "justifiable homicides", including ones that don't look at all necessary for self defense, like shooting somebody in the back of the head. There's also been a sharp decrease in the number of people brought to trial for such shootings.

This is all from somebody who supports these laws.

Something seems off to me about this situation - while self defense is valid, it looks as though there are many shootings that aren't really necessary for self defense, and many people aren't being brought to trial who should be - it should still be necessary to show that your actions were necessary, in my view.

0

Flap Doodle 1 year, 10 months ago

Little dude (or dudette) was getting all inflamed. Hope he/she/it gets a popsicle and calms down. There's nothing like a cool and fruity treat on a Spring evening.

0

Cant_have_it_both_ways 1 year, 10 months ago

Think I will just buy a drone and kill thugs with it. If Obama can do it why can't we?

0

acg 1 year, 10 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

0

Flap Doodle 1 year, 10 months ago

Getting back to the original case, evidence now strongly suggests that Zimmerman was actually being assaulted at the time he fired the shot that ended the encounter. How many times are you supposed to let someone hit you in the face before you are entitled to defend yourself?

0

booyalab 1 year, 10 months ago

I apologized if someone already pointed this out, but Detroit has a smaller population than Florida, no stand your ground law, but their 35 justifiable homicides from last year made up 10% of the nation's total.

So a state with no stand your ground law has a higher rate of justifiable homicides than a state with the law. HMMMM

0

Flap Doodle 1 year, 10 months ago

It seems that whenever the tush is stuck for a new word, he takes a noun describing something that irks him and add "licans". Whatever will he think of next?

0

Flap Doodle 1 year, 10 months ago

Why are you doing that odd formatting, tuschie? BTW, it's getting to where it won't be safe for a young thug to committ felony assault anymore.

0

Mike Ford 1 year, 10 months ago

naw.....I was sent as an observer to compare two species of simpletons... Kansas and Oklahoma.....turns out it's a tie when dimwits vote for sharia law.....only difference when they act out or say racist things in Oklahoma they're repugnant enough to say stuff publically and own it....here it's just cowards with code words.... oh and the churches are bigger and all the praying doesn't spare them from those gigantic tornados, blast furnace heat and ice storms that no one applies sand to roads for..... oh and they have US Senator He!! NO otherwise known as James Imhofe. I was a preacher's kid for two decades so when I talk smack on the church I'm talking smack on what I physically witnessed from the 1970's to the 1990's. Oh and I witnessed the beginning of that wonderful political evangelical movement that believes in men riding dinosaurs and the other nonsense that people like Sam Brownback and Art Laffer (brothers??) subscribe to. It's such a religious thing to be vengeful and to inject racism and homophobia when Jesus helped the homeless and ran around with Mary Magdalene......shhh....don't tell the churchlicans....wouldn't want to bust their bubble....they're too busy saying God is behind arming yourself and wrapping oneself in a flag....not idoltry...no...

0

Centerville 1 year, 10 months ago

'Stand Your Ground' has nothing to do with the charges against Zimmerman. This group is just using this in their pathetic fundraising campaign.

0

Jean1183 1 year, 10 months ago

Ooops! Typed too fast. For those "spelling police".....sChutzhund.

0

Jean1183 1 year, 10 months ago

Solution: big dog trained in shutzhund with CC as "backup"....or for when I don't have the dog with me.

Yep, I'll stand my ground.

0

Herecomesthewaterweasel 1 year, 10 months ago

What about the Arizona incident, where a man was shot in t

0

pigballin 1 year, 10 months ago

Rothschild,,you failed to address why others are for this law. Obviously you are against a person defending themselves to live another day. So i guess you will just let someone wreck havoc on your body.

0

pigballin 1 year, 10 months ago

Anyone that thinks they should not defend their lively hood is a very empty headed disillusioned individual who should see a shrink.

0

LeBo 1 year, 10 months ago

Proud vet! This is the right of any citizen to protect themselves. Wake up the police dept will only make a report after you are dead from a crime.

0

skinny 1 year, 10 months ago

Glad I am an NRA member. This law will stand in Kansas, I guarantee it!

0

Mike Ford 1 year, 10 months ago

I just went to Oklahoma this weekend where that state is in competition with Kansas for the race to dumb. Even the columnists down there ask..."Is Dodge City or Tombstone really necessary?" I guess the dumblicans can avoid all real world economic and political decisions by pandering to dumb whether dumb be rural, religious, racist, or addicted to AM radio. When there are fifty former GOP politicians railing against many of these policies one has to wonder how long the proponents of dumb can play dumb in the tower as their misguided plans bring them and everyone subjected to their stupidity down with them?

0

Dan Eyler 1 year, 10 months ago

I just finished my concealed and carry course. The instructor was an ex prosecutor in the DA's office for Douglas County. I assure you that the majority of the focus was on the things that can go wrong and send you to prison. The law only gives you the right to carry a pistol and not much more. All actions you take with that law are subject to civil and criminal prosecution if things go wrong. Nothing to take lightly as some of you seem to think. However I am certain of one thing. With or without my CC permit, if you enter someones home to steal a TV or a microwave, shoot first and ask questions later.... if he or she is lucky enough to be alive. I don't know the motives of the person breaking into a home, but the thief will quickly realize the motives of the home owner or apartment dweller. However, the worst thing a CC permit holder can do is look for trouble. Awareness is how you avoid trouble and retreat is your best defense, but if all else fails shoot.

0

Flap Doodle 1 year, 10 months ago

Criminals prefer compliant victims who lack effective means of self defense. Look at the target-rich environment criminals find in Chicago..... ( ... from .... a .... source ... )

0

yourworstnightmare 1 year, 10 months ago

Stand you ground laws are basically ideological hat tips to the tea party right wing of the GOP. They are based more in ideology than in need. There was clearly no need for them, as detailed by Fossick, and they were passed just to make tea party right wingers feel good.

0

pace 1 year, 10 months ago

Calling them justified is a change in language. I would not would prefer to shoot someone if I could avoid it. Stand your ground points to another choice. Florida has also reduced their death of children's count by changing the words. Just as many children are dead, but Florida doesn't have to admit it. http://now.msn.com/now/0527-child-neglect-Florida.aspx

0

Fossick 1 year, 10 months ago

Jafs: "Perhaps that's why we haven't seen more of this sort of tragedy involving them."

We haven't seen this sort of tragedy involving anyone:

"A spike in justifiable homicides by citizens could be an indicator that stand-your-ground laws were creating a problem, although justifiable homicides wouldn’t necessarily be related to a stand-your-ground incident. Nationally, the recent rate of justifiable homicides by citizens has been fairly steady, climbing about 4 percent annually from 2006 to 2010, according to the FBI. There were 278 such homicides in 2010.

"Only three justifiable homicides by citizens have been worked by Wichita police since the Kansas law took effect in 2006, Stolz said. (from a source) http://www.kansas.com/2012/03/31/2278573/reasonableness-the-key-to-kansas.html

For reference, the number is justifiable homicides nationwide less than the number of black murder victims in Missouri (287, 2008) alone: http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/homicides_kansas_city/

So which number should the NAACP be concerned about, if they were truly concerned about killing?

As is noted in the article, SYG does not give the right to use excessive force, but reasonable force. It does not give the right to go shooting anyone you want and then claiming self defense. It has not produced any of the calamitous results that opponents prophesied, especially when it passed at the same time as concealed carry. Kansas was supposed to be awash in a sea of blood. Yet here we are, same as it ever was. The law only

"“...cleared up any misconception about whether you did or didn’t need to retreat,” Wichita criminal defense attorney Richard Ney said. “The question was always, ‘Well, what could have they done to retreat?’ Now, if you’re defending yourself, you do not have to retreat.”

But there are still limitations, some of which are misunderstood by the law’s critics, legal experts say.

“The confusion is that people are thinking this allows you to use excessive force,” said Charles O’Hara, a criminal defense lawyer in Wichita. “They’re acting like the law lets you go hunt someone down and shoot them, and that’s not true.” (from the same source)

I would opine that, given the low actual numbers of justifiable homicide/SYG killings in Kansas, the only people thinking this allows you to use excessive force are those who oppose the law for other reasons.

0

Mike Ford 1 year, 10 months ago

really.....let an innocent person be shot and a rentacop wannabe go without being questioned by the person he killed.....

0

yourworstnightmare 1 year, 10 months ago

Nothing wrong with "Stand Your Ground".

It's "Be Paranoid, Chase Down, Harrass, and Murder Innocent People" that I have a problem with.

0

Leslie Swearingen 1 year, 10 months ago

tuschkahouma smart man and so true what you write. Its like a magic show, divert the people with your right hand which is juggling fear and the idea that sure you may be poor but you got that white skin going for you, and they won't notice what you're doing with your left hand. It's the old divide and conquer.
Seriously can anyone name one bill that went though the Kansas Legislature lately that had nothing to do with guns, god or abortion?

0

Mike Ford 1 year, 10 months ago

seventeen years ago I delivered food in central Topeka. I had one attempted and one successful robbery of me in almost five years of delivering food. I never carried a gun. I realized to work in said environment I accepted risks and acted with calm caution as I worked. I talked a sixteen year old gang pledge out of robbing me at 1243 Western Avenue in the summer of 1993. The gang pledge had a 25 cal. Raven and fired it upward to get my attention before I convinced him I had no money and I left unharmed. I even had a cast on my dominant hand from a basketball accident at the time. No gun needed. I own hunting weapons and I am the son of a gun collector and both of us are Democrats who see through the veiled racism of the NRA and how they play dumb Kansans to vote against their own interests by tying everything to guns, god, and abortion all the while making Kansas seem as dumb as Mississippi and all the other godlican racist states. My first weapon was a stevens 20 gauge shotgun to hunt with at eight years of age and I passed hunters safety at eleven and I don't fall for the armed billy bob nra nonsense. dumb america....don't think...shoot first and let the fox network sort it out.

0

tange 1 year, 10 months ago

It's the irreversible things which cannot be undone.

0

bigtoe 1 year, 10 months ago

There isn't a solitary chance in hell this law will be repealed anywhere in any State - none, zero, zip, nada. A total waste of bandwidth as usual with Scott. Move on, there's nothing to see here.

0

Cait McKnelly 1 year, 10 months ago

"Stand Your Ground" laws. Where your TV is worth someone else's life.

0

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 1 year, 10 months ago

The biggest problem with such a law is that it actually encourages an instigator of an altercation to escalate it to deadly levels-- dead people tell no tales.

Say someone attacks you, and you pull a gun in order to defend yourself. If your attacker can kill you first, they can claim self defense, because you won't be around to testify otherwise. And this law provides all the cover they need.

0

JackMcKee 1 year, 10 months ago

I'm a well armed moderate. I'm also a lot bigger than most people so few people are willing to mess with me. Which is a good thing. For everyone. Smaller people and women shouldn't have to worry about their safety, though. I support conceal carry and stand your ground laws.

0

Armored_One 1 year, 10 months ago

It's not a question of Second Amendment rights, but instead a question of law enforcement.

If you have a firearm, why is the first instinct to use it to kill, instead of using it to either incapacitate or back the 'attacker' down, allowing law enforcement to do their job by arresting them, and the court system to decide guilt and/or innocence?

0

Leslie Swearingen 1 year, 10 months ago

Too often the decision to shoot is an emotional response based on fear which may or may not be justified, but in the moment when the adrenaline is pumping seems very real and very right. I can't see killing to protect property, life yes, but not the tv.

0

FalseHopeNoChange 1 year, 10 months ago

Complex intellectual nuanced Liberals do not like this 'law' because it doesn't give 'attackers' a chance?

I can 'see' your point. It's not a 'fair fight' if the 'attacker' is unarmed.

0

BornAgainAmerican 1 year, 10 months ago

Dear Second Chance on Shoot First Gang:

Be advised that this former Marine WILL stand his ground against any and all miscreants attempting to do physical harm to me or my family. .

0

autie 1 year, 10 months ago

We could always hit the bad guys in the head with quotation marks.

0

thuja 1 year, 10 months ago

Transcend "which side" and you'll find the correct answer.

0

Flap Doodle 1 year, 10 months ago

Criminals want a safer environment in which to practice their chosen profession. Which side are you on?

0

Liberty275 1 year, 10 months ago

Dear Second Chance on Shoot First campaign partners,

Buzz off.

0

FalseHopeNoChange 1 year, 10 months ago

I carry a 'Machete'.

Complex intellectual, gently nuanced Liberals are 'fearless'. They can impress 'bandits' with 'eloquent' conversation gently persuading assailants to 'drop' their weapons and fending off attack.

They can use the same 'magical' dialog with wild bears in the forest. They are 'one' with all that is around them.

0

Fossick 1 year, 10 months ago

Great time for a push - now that the legislature is out of session. Is any more evidence needed that this 'coalition' was assembled for the benefit of the press rather than for actual lobbying?

Stand Your Ground is good law - there is absolutely no doubt that any man or woman has a right to defend himself, even if that takes lethal force. Whether and to what extent it even applies in that loud, unimportant Florida case is unknown and therefore immaterial.

0

Benjamin Roberts 1 year, 10 months ago

Perhaps the crime scene has changed. Moreover, there has been a change in Florida's investigation and determination of justifiable homicides. Some homicides that previously would have been prosecuted are now classified as justifiable due to investigative changes.

Also, take a look at justifiable police shootings; those numbers have climbed correspondingly.

Calendar Year | Justifiable homicide by civilian | Justifiable homicide by police | Total 2000 12 20 32 2001 12 21 33 2002 12 23 35 2003 16 16 32 2004 8 23 31 2005 18 25 43 2006 12 21 33 2007 42 60 102 2008 41 52 93 2009 45 60 105 2010 40 56 96

http://tinyurl.com/d2h7jc4

0

Mike Gerhardt 1 year, 10 months ago

I am totally unimpressed with this "group" of people

0

optimist 1 year, 10 months ago

Justified shootings have tripled in Florida... This is evidence that this is bad law? How many of those people would have been victimized by crime if not for their defending themselves without fear of prosecution? Dhow us all of the stats! The Treyvon Martin case seems to look more and more like the authorities got it right in the first place. Politics, not the facts are now going after the victim who appears ad though he was defending himself. This has become a modern day racist lynching. The one aspect that I agree with is that Zimmerman should not have put himself in a position to confront Martin directly. That being said there is no indication that Zimmerman did anything to threaten Martin consequently it appears Martin violently attached Zimmerman. Would Zimmerman be the one in the ground had he not defended himself? If we can't answer that how do we expect Zimmerman, a man being beating brutily by an attacker to doubt his life was at stake?

0

Steven Gaudreau 1 year, 10 months ago

I wonder if Ginny has ever been brutalized by an attacker?

0

Commenting has been disabled for this item.