Archive for Sunday, May 27, 2012

Kansas tax act most regressive in nation

May 27, 2012

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Gov. Sam Brownback’s signing of the new Kansas Tax Act on Tuesday was a historic event. The act will shape the lives of Kansans for many years to come.

The nonpartisan Legislative Research Department has estimated that the act will reduce Kansas government revenues by $4.5 billion over the next six years. Inevitably, there will be major reductions in the government services Kansans have come to expect — especially education.

Equally important, the act dramatically changes the Kansas tax system, shifting the income tax burden from the wealthy and prosperous to working people. The act provides that all income of business owners is tax-free (except in the unusual case where a regular corporation is used). Although the act was promoted as a boost to small business, there is no limit on the size of business that can be exempt from tax.

Income of professionals — such as doctors, lawyers, architects, and accountants — practicing in partnerships will be tax-free. In a law firm, for example, the partners will pay no tax, while the clerical staff will continue on the tax rolls.

Income received from partnerships and trusts will be tax-free. Wealthy Kansans who own real estate, stocks, bonds and other investments will simply transfer those assets to a partnership or trust, thereby freeing all their investment income from tax.

All income of farmers will be exempt from tax.

Who will still be paying Kansas income tax? Only three groups: 1) employees, 2) some retirees and 3) individuals whose investments are so modest that they cannot afford to create a trust or partnership to shelter their investment income.

Kansas government relies on three taxes: property, sales and income. Property and sales taxes are regressive in the sense that a lower-income person pays more of these taxes as a percent of income than does a higher-income person. The new income tax will be dramatically regressive. Low- and moderate-income workers will remain on the tax rolls. Meanwhile, wealthy Kansans will readily escape the tax, and many prosperous (but not wealthy) Kansans will be able to evade the tax as well. Beginning in 2013, the Kansas tax system will be among the most regressive in the nation.

Can a just society tax the poor while not taxing the rich?

Martin B. Dickinson is a nationally recognized expert in tax law and the Schroeder Distinguished Professor of Law at Kansas University.

Comments

Liberty_One 3 years, 2 months ago

Obviously they did not cut taxes enough. Property and sales taxes need to be cut next. Thank you for pointing this out, professor.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

Don't expect property or sales tax cuts.... the state just left the local with the check again. Both will go up, but that's fine cause none of the annointed will be paying as much as they would under fair taxation..... hmmmm if they now pay no tax does that mean they get no more representaion? ...... I think we may have a down home folksy tea party-esq way out of this.....

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

No fair taxation would idealy be flat with no exeptions and no loopholes. Everyone pays the same %. That's fair. No tax means a society of no property.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

They are constitutional and you know that cause I'm only the 50th person to tell you and the state protects your property now.... so yeah they protect your property rights. This is what makes a society. are you avocating anarchy?

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

All those things are the minimum government. They are the things that benifit everyone. And user and subscription fees = taxes. Why are you arguing this then? I get the feeling you just like to play devil's advocate.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

All those things are the minimum government. They are the things that benifit everyone. And user and subscription fees = taxes. Why are you arguing this then? I get the feeling you just like to play devil's advocate.

Ronda Miller 3 years, 2 months ago

No redheads have the right to life or the freedom to marry should they be bi sexuals and poly Wally doodle all day.

It's nice small businesses are exempt from paying state tax.

Liberty275 3 years, 2 months ago

I know you are smart enough to never pay income taxes again. Me too. However, we need to spend a small amount to pay the help (like obama, brownback, the dogcatcher and other unskilled labor).

You are right about the property. I feel a little bad for anyone that tries taking mine away while I'm around. Government need not apply.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm smart enough t know that I want to pay income taxes. I know that when fairly taxed and propery managed my share benifits me more in services than it does in crap I can buy or use. I even know that its going to help those people who think that its someone elses job to take care of all that. People who try and get out of taxes are as much a drain on those that do as are the people who can't afford to pay them. Maybe more so.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

I argue you do receive the benifit and all taxes are your choice to pay or not. You choose to pay them. You choose to benifit from them. And you pay for the courts even if you never step foot in one. Your argument that its all an opposition on your rights is foolish. You have the right to live how ever you want. But we have the right you hold consiquences againt your actions cause that's how a society works. So make all the claims you want but don't act like you are bing imposed on cause you can't do as you please. If you want to be the kid that takes his ball and goes home when he feels slighted go right ahead but that home will have to be a lonely remote place.

KWCoyote 3 years, 2 months ago

Your property is your property only as long as you're big and tough enough to keep the next guy who comes along from taking it from you.

nacho_diaz 3 years, 2 months ago

Liberty_One, how convenient and fortunate for you that you have 'property rights.' Surely the Native Americans are as thrilled as you are that white people come up with this concept that property was a 'right,' especially when said white people colonized North America, stole all of the Natives' land and implemented a government to protect the white people's newly-acquired 'rightful property.' Boy, that was pretty dumb of the Native Americans to not think of property rights first! Well, finder's keepers, right?!

Alyosha 3 years, 2 months ago

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JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

How is that fair when everyone needs the first $15,000 just to survive?

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

So you live on an island off the grid? Otherwise your zero is silly. very silly, almost as silly as anything I have heard.

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

even on an island, do you wish to keep it safe?silly silly silly

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

silly, I am sorry I even thought you could present any argument. What a waste.

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

I apologize to the forum for addressing any remarks to Liberty. I had recently came across some interesting arguments within the Ayn Rand Philosophy. Liberty's points were not part of that type of discussion. I do recommend Levi Asher's book on the subject, it surprised me.

JayhawkFan1985 3 years, 2 months ago

Liberty one, there can be no private property without a functioning and stable government. Government in KS at both the state and local level has just been hobbled. We are headed for third world status. Brownback and the legislature should be recalled for such reckless behavior. This is the Marie antionette budget...I guess the poor should start eating cake...

JayhawkFan1985 3 years, 2 months ago

Tell me where the bloat is in government and please be specific not merely relying on your extremist ideology.

JayhawkFan1985 3 years, 2 months ago

No reply from liberty one...just outrageous ideology and no substance as we've come to expect...

JayhawkFan1985 3 years, 2 months ago

I also believe that czarist Russia, monarchist France, and many middle eastern countries recently just learned that concentrating wealth in the hands of less than one percent of the population is not good for long term stability of the government or the society. That kind of concentration of wealth has nothing to do with intelligence, effort, or even luck. The system gets stacked in favor of a very few at the expense of everyone else and the logical result is revolution. You claim to be in favor of limited government, but what you propose will always lead to a police state to enforce the concentration of wealth and therefore inevitably expansive government. Social security, Medicare and other so called entitlement programs are part of this country's social contract and has led to greater stability and along with workers rights laws which are under attack now too avoided communist uprisings in the USA unlike in eastern Europe and Cuba. Have you even bothered to read any history?

JayhawkFan1985 3 years, 2 months ago

You still didn't answer my question. And as to whether you are more well read than me, I guess we could both argue until we're blue in the face, but that would make me as big a fool as you...

Phillbert 3 years, 2 months ago

Here's a no tax country for you to move to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia

Let us know how it works out for you.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 2 months ago

Liberty, we know you like the U.S. better than any place on Earth simply because you choose to be here. We know you like Kansas better than any place in the U.S. because you choose to be here. And we know you like Lawrence best of all because you choose to be here. Everything else is just sweating the small stuff.

KWCoyote 3 years, 2 months ago

Let's eliminate taxes and govt entirely and become a business center and industrial powerhouse like Somalia or Afghanistan!

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

and it's prosperity continued to grow after the 16th Amendment. Explain that one Liberty-none

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

Yes, the facts do. Have a look at historic GDP or household wealth. America became wealthier after the 16th Anendment was ratified.

Still no comment on Ayn Rand's blatant hypocrisy. Typical.

bnm2012 3 years, 2 months ago

What exactly is wrong with farmers? They are backwoods because the don't live in the big city? You do realize they provide your food? Btw, I am not a farmer.

KWCoyote 3 years, 2 months ago

These "reply" boxes don't post the replies to the right comments. That's a bit of a nuisance.

Clint Church 3 years, 2 months ago

Who were the legislature folks that that voted for this to get it to Brownback. They should not be voted back in this November as well as Brownback.

riverdrifter 3 years, 2 months ago

Voevoda: "Liberty_One is an anarcho-capitalist who is opposed to all government and who regards any and all taxation as the same as armed robbery. He imagines that eliminating government will result in freedom and prosperity for all. He actually has a lot more in common with Communist thought than you do; he just doesn't realize it."

tomatogrower 3 years, 2 months ago

Do you know anything about the Communist theory. The Karl Marx theory, not the Russian theory.

Jayhawk1958 3 years, 2 months ago

No cut on the sales tax because the poor would have to pay less.

anotherview 3 years, 2 months ago

Cutting taxes is one thing. Cutting taxes unfairly is what Kansas has done. Just look at the specific groups of former taxpayers who will no longer have to pay any Kansas income tax. I doubt that many, if any, of these groups will be so called "job creators".

Thank you for pointing this out, professor.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

You're right.... how could we not see it... this is the one person who will be hurt my this plan.... sour grapes indeed. I know that all mcdonald and walmart employees are paid in stock and have trusts t shield their pay. And forget the irony that state paid workers will have to pay too. That's the perfect idea to raise tax base... taxthe people payed by taxes...its not really a pay cut in desguise. I can make some guesses where Brownback makes all his money.....

Alyosha 3 years, 2 months ago

A) this is not a hit piece but rather simply a statement of facts about what a nonpartisan groups' analysis shows. That he can't accept that people or groups can be nonpartisan and interested in the public good only shows the extreme degree to which the commenter's mind is in a cage of ideology.

B) the comment evidences a troubling issue with experts. Only fools and narcissists believe no one else can be an expert in a topic. The dismissing of the claims in the piece out of hand demonstrates what happens when people go to school but learn nothing.

camper 3 years, 2 months ago

"Only fools and narcissists believe no one else can be an expert in a topic. "

Well said. True

WilburM 3 years, 2 months ago

This is one of the best pieces of writing in the LJW for many months, if not years. It is crystal clear, and cuts away all the rhetoric about this massive experiment. The Kochs, with their myriad trusts and Chapter S corporations, are huge winners here. the citizens of Kansas are the losers, big time.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 2 months ago

"It is crystal clear, and cuts away all the rhetoric about this massive experiment."

Sadly, this is not an experiment. Their ultimate purpose is to destroy state govt., and replace it with full-out plutocracy. This is just a first step.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

We never, never had prgressive taxes in this state.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 2 months ago

Be prepared for a mass exodus from the state. The only people left will be the wealthy (if they bother to live there) and the very poor who can't afford to leave.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

Its worse than that because people won't leave.... they will suffer.... they will do the best they can and they will make do with less. This can't be the end all of tax in ks. Its just ment to get Brownback back to DC or into an office where people will pay him to talk about how great he is. In the end its a huge way to build debt in the state but all in private hands. The people who make money in a bad economy are the ones that are not taxed anymore. Of course we could pass local income tax.... wouldn't that be a finger in the eye. We could start over at the bottom.....

jamieg99 3 years, 2 months ago

I am very excited to be leaving this state. I will be gone in about 5 weeks, and I imagine this will be much less painful to watch from a distance. It's a shame to see what Kansas is doing to itself-- I have discouraged several people from moving here, and unless there's a turn around, I will continue to do so. The people of Kansas are wonderful-- but that's just not enough anymore.

chootspa 3 years, 2 months ago

I've started looking. I don't want to leave, but I don't see a way I can stay. The schools will suffer. The property taxes will shoot through the roof. The jobs will not come no matter how much you cut taxes for the Kochs, and that endangers the job I currently have and like very much. I'm so angry.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 2 months ago

Next up on the Koch agenda is that pesky state constitution forcing the state to budget the schools.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

It will be interesting to see how they deal with the school funding suit. One thing the didn't get through was a change to the funding formula. Let's see them shift that funding local. Western kansas would suddenly think about who is really doing what is best for them.

progressive_thinker 3 years, 2 months ago

Yes, you are correct. What the small communities do not understand is that when their school closes [due to further consolidations] their town closes with it. They will no longer have a local grocery, hardware, or any of that. People just move away if their children have to spend 2-3 hours a day on a bus. That is aside from the jobs associated with the school leaving the community.

The notion of 2-3 hours on a bus every day is something that some school children out west have been dealing with for many years.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

The real issue is that the local schools out west have no other sorce of funding and the cost per student can be 2 or 3 times higher. Even with that extra funding they struggle based on numbers. Yet because of funding incentives to build new schools (a new building gets more funding per student for the first few years) some communities close existing schools and build massive new schools to try and make the math work. Eudora and baldwin are examples. Is there any reason that small districts sould have to bus kids when they live next to a now empty school building that is less than 10 years old. Properly funded schools are local, clean, have full facilities (art and music count) and, I think, need to be best for the student, not for the state tests (proven to be flawed to the point of not being a scientific measurement of sudent acheivment) one time I would like to see teachers listened to on this issue without being thrown under the bus as leaches or incompitant. Teachers work longer and harder with more stress than almost any other job for less pay. And in this state the have less rights than any other unionized group. As soon as people realize that this state and education in this state is a bargain, they might stop cmplaning and

tomatogrower 3 years, 2 months ago

"The real issue is that the local schools out west have no other source of funding and the cost per student can be 2 or 3 times higher. "

Exactly. It really makes me wonder why they continue to support people like Brownback who are trying to destroy the only schools they have. They are going to get cut big time in the next few years, especially if Brownback's lap boys get rid of any moderate Republicans. Do they think private schools will move in to fill the gap? Private schools need to make a profit. They aren't going to open in western Kansas, unless they are a non profit religious school. But regardless, eastern Kansas will no longer be paying for the schools in western Kansas, so those in the west are going to have to pay more than they did before. Why do they continue to vote against their own interests?

Windemere 3 years, 2 months ago

What's the Matter with KS? It has all the answers. Yet somehow that book's explanation just doesn't ring true.

verity 3 years, 2 months ago

I agree with Windemere---I read "What's the Matter with Kansas" some years ago and felt that a lot of things about it didn't ring true. As I remember, that was partly because Thomas Frank grew up in the KC metropolitan area and seemed fairly oblivious to the rest of the state, and partly because his cause and effects didn't always match up. It was a catchy title and for people who know little to nothing about Kansas (most of the people in the world) it sounded good and made Frank famous.

I think we need a better analysis of why people seem to vote against their economic interests so that we can understand it.

I also think that denigrating rural and small town Kansans as being stupid and uneducated is wrong and uneducated in itself and certainly doesn't endear the insulters to the insultees. We should be working with the rural parts of our state for a viable solution---when the individual farmers (and that includes a lot of LLCs and corporations) are gone, we're all going to pay.

chootspa 3 years, 2 months ago

They'll get crappy online schools. That's the new way for private schools to trick middle and lower income students out of their tax money. Put it on the Internet.

It usually takes several years to figure out that you've been tricked into giving up all your education for hot air, and by then it's too late. Profits pocketed. Thanks, Dave.

waiting 3 years, 2 months ago

So does this mean the profit from rental properties will be tax free? Will the bigger rental companies in Lawrence then lower rents? Yeah right.

camper 3 years, 2 months ago

According to the Libertarians it will lower our rent. Other things like groceries and utilities will go down too. Lets see how the experiment plays out.

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

It seems extraordinarily unlikely that will happen, don't you think?

Why wouldn't landlords charge the same, and pocket the extra profit?

Chuck Woodling 3 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for stripping away the rhetoric and penning a coherent article about the new Kansas tax law. You would have been the pride of the Southwest Trail if you had opted for journalism over law.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

Election in november..... here is hoping for less than one year.

chootspa 3 years, 2 months ago

Last time I checked, most of the house repubs were running unopposed. That doesn't exactly leave room for some sort of change mandate.

LadyJ 3 years, 2 months ago

" how long is it going to take before everyone realizes this bamboozle ain't creating jobs and new revenue?" I just hope I can survive that long.

Liberty275 3 years, 2 months ago

Consequences, elections have them. Why do you hate democracy?

Liberty275 3 years, 2 months ago

You realize we are a democratic republic, right?

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

Yeah we do get a vote, but the agreement in a repubilc is that they represent our interests in our place. That's not what happened here.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

In a way I am held accountable. I have risk when I travel to tose places we have treated wrongly. And I have to foot the bill for our mistakes. I have to look frward to being looked down on in other states for Brownback's tax mess. The thing is in a republic my job is to vote out the people who make mistakes and in that way hold them accountable. Same as you. Its a numbers game so my personal accountablillity is X% of the problem. In the case of foreign conflict right or wrong it 1 in 300 million. I can handle that.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

But I didn't hire a hit man and I didn't kill anyone..... you seem to always trip up on WE. If I did those things then I maybe should expect that result but we means that we did those thing and anyone trying to say I am fully at fault would hve to deal with the protections that WE provide for one another. Its not just you or I. Like I said its a resposability spread across everyone in the group. An the analogy is correct. Play by the rules or play alone. I don't see how you think you can keep ignoring facts and common sense and still think you are right. I'm not the only person who has empathy and understanding that I'm notthe only person that matters. Thinking its always about you and your is sociopothy. It makes you kind of sub human.

Alyosha 3 years, 2 months ago

This comment demonstrates how completely out of the American political tradition Liberty One stands. Can you imagine George Washington saying that a state government doesn't represent the people? Or any other founding father?

Neither can I.

cato_the_elder 3 years, 2 months ago

This piece will receive accolades from leftists. It cleverly fails to mention, however, the specific fact that those whose Kansas income taxes will be reduced under this law are still subject to paying all kinds of federal income taxes at rates that have always been much higher than those in Kansas, and that the federal tax burden of Kansas residents could substantially increase if the wrong people are elected in November.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

And our state always takes the money from the feds..... they never turn down millions of dollars. Yes, but who are the wrong people and who will seetheir taxes go up. Seems to me the wrong people are in charge here.....

JayhawkFan1985 3 years, 2 months ago

I believe that Brownback rejected some affordable care act money that republican insurance commissioner sandy praeger wanted...he rejects money when it suits his political goals.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 2 months ago

What a crock of BS! The top 10% in this country are paying the least amount of Federal taxes they have ever had to since before the Great Depression. Geez.

cato_the_elder 3 years, 2 months ago

You're obviously ignorant of the history of income taxation in the United States during that time. Sure, income tax rates were much higher at times, but tax shelters were endless and people with higher rates wound up paying no income tax at all as a result.

The Tax Reform Act of 1986, a bipartisan piece of legislation enacted during the Reagan administration, reduced income tax rates and eliminated a number of significant tax shelters at the same time. As a result, many wealthy individuals, especially those involved in real estate tax shelters, had to start paying income taxes and those who had created the shelters were, in some cases, financially ruined and have hated Reagan ever since for it.

That's why many Americans now favor either a flat tax or a fair tax with the elimination of most present deductions. Liberal Democrats will never agree with that, because too many of their pet projects rely on tax-deductible contributions from limousine liberals to keep them going.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 2 months ago

So what you are saying is that whether through tax loopholes, shelters, etc or through outright law, the top 10% in this country have gotten away with paying the least in taxes for decades anyway. I guess when you put it that way, why should anything be any different now? At least now they're being honest about it.

cato_the_elder 3 years, 2 months ago

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cato_the_elder 3 years, 2 months ago

You have a serious case of class envy. Perhaps you might want to so some research on who pays the lion's share of the income taxes in this country and who doesn't pay any at all.

chootspa 3 years, 2 months ago

Mitt Romney's effective income tax rate was lower than mine last year. If pointing that out makes me guilty of "class envy," so be it.

Alyosha 3 years, 2 months ago

Your ideological blinders are keeping you from seeing reality (which is likely ehat you want). Many conservatives -- real conservatives, not the anti intellectual anti government radicals currently in power -- see clearly that this tax policy is a recipe for disaster.

cato_the_elder 3 years, 2 months ago

Let's revisit your prediction in three years, especially if Romney wins and national policies favoring job creation, relying on the growth and success of free enterprise rather than tired, failed policies of government handouts, are undertaken and implemented by both the White House and Congress.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

the last Relublican POTUS with full control of Congress did SUCH a bang up job on the economy.

cato_the_elder 3 years, 2 months ago

The last Democrat POTUS with full control of Congress really did a bang-up job on the economy, didn't he? It's the key issue in the November election, pal.

rtwngr 3 years, 2 months ago

Another Keynsian disciple. Maybe, just maybe, the lowering of taxes on income producers will stimulate more hiring thereby expanding the tax base and growing the Kansas economy. As for the spending cuts. Good. The social system needs to be leaned down. Mr. Nationally Recognized Expert in Tax Law is not Mr. Nationally Recognized Expert in Economics.

hujiko 3 years, 2 months ago

Okay, Mr. Not Nationally Recognized for Anything Important at all - please explain how this practice of only taking from the poor and only giving to the rich will do anything other than expand the disparity of wealth in this state. Why on earth do you think giving plutocrats more money will magically change their minds into giving it away?

Maybe, just maybe, everyone could pitch in their fair share without complaining or weaseling through loopholes and still understand that they have it better off than most.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

Martin Dickenson is about 1,000 times more nationally recognized than you.

Alyosha 3 years, 2 months ago

Maybe, just maybe, you should grant respect to people who know more than you do on particular topics -- as you would expect people to grant you respect on the topic of your life's study and expertise.

And maybe, just maybe, you can learn to separate your biases and emotions from your thinking to glimpse even for a moment that 40 years of trying exactly what you keep reiterating we do -- cut taxes -- has done nothing to spur jobs.

There will be no recovery, as history shows, until consumer demand juices the economy into growth.

camper 3 years, 2 months ago

Right the income producers are stimulating hiring overseas more often. Corporations are seeing record profits while unemployment and underemployment are depression like.

camper 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm sick and tired of right wingers knocking Keynes. I suspect most of them have not studied economic theories in balance. You may be in this category because you did not spell it correctly.

jgkojak 3 years, 2 months ago

DEMAND creates jobs - if I make a product and demand increases I hire more people. No competent business person fails to hire people to meet demand due to a few percentage pts of taxation one way or another This tax plan makes no sense.

Alyosha 3 years, 2 months ago

This is as wildly unreal and fantasy esque as Marxism.

verity 3 years, 2 months ago

I've said it before, but I'm going to say it again. We don't need more government or less government, we need the right amount of government. Our world is changing faster every day and the government we need now is not what we needed in the past. When our country was founded, there were no motor cars or computers. Women couldn't vote, or, in many cases, control their own property. Many humans were held as property.

As time went on, laws were passed to make things more equitable---to give everybody more of a chance to follow the American dream. This piece is probably the most coherent I have read on what the results of our new tax law will be. We are going backwards at a breathtaking speed. If we don't put the breaks on quickly, it will be disaster.

V O T E in the next election and do your homework before you vote. You all have the internet, make use of it.

Make sure the people who brought us this are held accountable.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

I wish I could. Unfortunately Sammy won't be on the ballot.

verity 3 years, 2 months ago

No, but in the end, it is the legislature that squabbled like a bunch of illiterate, whiny children instead of doing their job and allowed much of this to happen. Granted, Brownback did a lot by fiat, but if we elect a competent legislature, we at least have a chance to rein him in.

What else can we do? Bitching and moaning on here may make us feel that we aren't alone thinking that this is reprehensible, unworkable and a disaster, but it ain't gona fix it. If you have any other ideas about fixing it, I'm all ears.

We can't impeach or recall him---another law which we need to get changed.

chootspa 3 years, 2 months ago

Filing deadline June 1. Most are still running unopposed last I checked. I think we're screwed on that one.

verity 3 years, 2 months ago

I may be wrong, but I think that deadline is pushed up because redistricting got flipped to the courts. Maybe some people are waiting to see what district they will be in---I know someone who was doing that.

chootspa 3 years, 2 months ago

Ooh, good point. I hope that's the case.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

Then the right thing to do would be to lessen thetax burden on small business owners and not let people who make payroll no problem get to skip their taxes too. This is how it works.... we are doing it for person A who needs it but person B C and D don't but they helped fund elections so they are in.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

If they weren't making much money, they weren't paying much in income taxes. That's how an income tax works. Understand?

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

If they're bad business people or in a bad business maybe they should find something more lucrative to do. I know lots of people in business that are doing very well.

Typically the first place a business stops paying when times get tough are sales and withholding taxes. Now the State is putting even more reliance on those to cover its bills.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

Liberty-1 did you know that Ayn Rand took Social Security under a different name? Pastries for thought.

tomatogrower 3 years, 2 months ago

Ayn Rand was a hypocrite. So are the Libertarians.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

I should have just addressed it to LibertyX, which is code for every Ronulan/Randian libertarian nutjob on this site.

avarom 3 years, 2 months ago

She also married an American, so she could become a U.S. citizen and change her name legally to collect that Social Security, she never claimed to believe in.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

Martin Dickenson has it right. This is a major embarrassment for this good state. Brownback is the worst Governor in this state and possibly any state's history.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

So we've heard from a tax expert on the issue . Cue b.s. expert Dave Trabert's and his pithy rebuttal. Well, Dave, we're waiting.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

I don't think Dave's around this weekend. I don't smell his stench.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

Without amazon funding maybe he is thinking about things differnt... the ALEC party might be winding down

Phillbert 3 years, 2 months ago

Republicans used to talk about encouraging people to work. Now they've made it so the only people who will be taxed are those who aren't rich enough to run all of their money through a corporation or live off of their investments. Everyone else who works for a living will get to foot the bill.

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 2 months ago

Interesting that on the same day, Koch Industries for Prosperity (AFP) has a column in the Topeka paper http://cjonline.com/opinion/2012-05-26/letter-conservative-group-lauds-tax-cuts where they claim the tax shift will create jobs.

As this writer so clearly points out, in terms of funding the services Kansans agreed to in their state constitution 150 years ago this tax shift actually eliminates jobs by creating far fewer taxpayers than there are today.

That is why this experiment is doomed to failure. Its only possible outcome is either increased sales and property taxes or an elimination of state government in Kansas.

Forget the talk about four-day school weeks, this tax shift will lead to four-day court weeks and even four-day prison weeks. On Fridays, the prisoners fend for themselves.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

At least in Kansas, we have far more to fear from AFP, ALEC, and the Kochs than any goat herder in the mountains of Afghanistan.

kernal 3 years, 2 months ago

Buh, buh we want control of those minerals beneath the surface in Afghanistan! We're not over there just because the Taliban are a bunch of ignorant religious zealots denying equality to women. Sound familiar?

AbigailLady 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm trying to look on the bright side of this. At least after this experiment fails, we will have good evidence to site when trying to explain why this is bad policy. I look at this as Kansas doing the rest of the country a favor.

camper 3 years, 2 months ago

Too bad that this tax act is not about fairness or fiscal soundness. It is regressive and shifts the burden to employees and those who pay property taxes. There is an optimal tax level where society benefits through services and the economy benefits via public sector employment. Tax rates that are too high diminish this benefit. Too low, you diminish the benefits of services and employment not to mention budget shortfalls.

This bill is taking too far the wrong way and will give corporations more power. And corporations are taking in record profits.....even while in such a week economy (I think it close to depression).

For all I see on these pages about fear of Socialism, increasing the power and influence of corporations is equally as bad.

justoneperson 3 years, 2 months ago

unless the small government is controlled by a few corporations

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

That's like saying everything should be free, which makes you a socialist.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

So you're going to pay the fire department to come put out your neighbors fire before it spreads to you home? How about the schizophrenic that thinks you're the devil incarnate? Are you personally going to write checks to the social workers to keep him from trying to burn you at the stake? What if you have a business and you need employees who are literate. Are you going to pay for the entire cost of their education, or are you going to propose some way to divide that up amongst all the beneficiaries? What about roads, will you have a toll road that begins at your driveway? Parks, how do you propose to build and keep them open while they wait for your user fee?

Your ideology is unworkable and preposterous.

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

I would like to see that all added up... taxes would look like a deal. I read an artical once that put forward the idea that each person should pay teachers half the average pay of a 14yo baby sitter. Each parent pays per hour for their kids to attend school. Teachers would make into the 6 figures every year. Teachers real pay seems cheap when you compare with "market value of child care" not to mention the education the kids get.

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 2 months ago

See, toe isn't a socialist. toe is an anarchist.

KWCoyote 3 years, 2 months ago

Brownback's trying to make history and he'll do it, by cracky! He's not smart enough to be the best governor, but he's got a real good shot at being the worst governor, and that's just as famous a status! Now if only we could get him to beat his wife or starve his kids, that would be icing on the cake. He doesn't actually have to be mad at his wife, just beat her for winning public disapproval, just part of the overall effort to be the worst governor. He needs additional suggestions on how to do this too. I suggest we provide him with those extra ideas on how to become the worst governor in history.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 2 months ago

And tying his dog to the top of his car isn't good enough!

KWCoyote 3 years, 2 months ago

Convert the Cedar Crest mansion into a massage parlor or brothel? Provide free pot as well as pots of coffee to the state legislators? Hire a member of the Gambino family to be in charge of the state bank examiners as well as the chairman of the gaming commission? Offer political asylum and the job of Juvenile Authority chief to the African warlord who's been in the news lately for conscripting children to his army?

I've gotta run to lunch now, but you can think of some more great ideas. And they should be passed on to Governor Brownback himself instead of left to languish on the hard drives of the Lawrence Journal World.

KWCoyote 3 years, 2 months ago

As I posted previously on the Gov's tax bill, the stuff will hit the fan soon and everyone who thought the plan sounded good will have occasion to rethink their views. Might make a wreck of the school system, housing market and state agencies though. I wish I were in a position to sell out and leave the state now and beat the rush.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

is it too late to bring back tarring and feathering? I know a few people in the state that are deserving of a little public humiliation over this mess.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

starting with AFP, ALEC and Dave Trabert.

Crazy_Larry 3 years, 2 months ago

And the working class lay down and take in the backside without lifting a finger to prevent it. Bread and circuses certainly do work to subdue the commoners! Tar and feathers are too good for these 'elected' menaces to society.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

FalseHope's advice to a starving person "just eat more food"

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 2 months ago

To a woman denied birth control..."Just don't have sex." To a gay person,..."Just pretend a lot." Hey I like this game!

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

Agreed but then they would have to allow access and low cost birth control.... not a bright spot with this administration either.... so.... any other ideas... or were yu suggesting government hand outs to people to do nothing? Cause that doesn't sound like the point you WANTED to make....

Lartist5 3 years, 2 months ago

Maybe then the way is to promote same sex marriage ..... teach it young right along with absinance only sex ed.... problem solved.... call the gov....

KWCoyote 3 years, 2 months ago

FalseHopeNoChange, you're complaining about LIBERALS creating this unfair tax structure? You need to go back to school, son. It's the conservatives who want working stiffs to pay more while their rich friends pay less. But ask a Koch brother and they'd say progressive taxation is the commie way. Makes me feel like joining the commies! Or flying back in time to the Eisenhower era when the top tax rate was 91%.

cato_the_elder 3 years, 2 months ago

You're another poster who's obviously ignorant of the history of income taxation in the United States. Sure, income tax rates were much higher during some earlier times, but tax shelters were endless and people with higher rates wound up paying no income tax at all as a result.

The Tax Reform Act of 1986, a bipartisan piece of legislation enacted during the Reagan administration, reduced income tax rates and eliminated a number of significant tax shelters at the same time. As a result, many wealthy individuals, especially those involved in real estate tax shelters, had to start paying income taxes and those who had created the shelters were, in some cases, financially ruined and have hated Reagan ever since for it.

That's why many Americans now favor either a flat tax or a fair tax with the elimination of most present deductions. Liberal Democrats will never agree with that, because too many of their pet projects rely on tax-deductible contributions from limousine liberals to keep them going.

Corey Williams 3 years, 2 months ago

As Bush said, "The really rich people figure out how to dodge taxes anyway." —explaining why high taxes on the rich are a failed strategy, Annandale, Va., Aug. 9, 2004

cato_the_elder 3 years, 2 months ago

That's been less accurate since 1986, as I stated.

Corey Williams 3 years, 2 months ago

Yes of course, since the removal of some means the removal of all. Explain the issue that Obama had with the swiss banks not long after his election then. If there aren't any ways to hide money offshore, why does it still happen?

cato_the_elder 3 years, 2 months ago

If you don't know, I suggest that you look it up.

Alyosha 3 years, 2 months ago

Another nonsense post. Unless you believe Reagan and Eisenhower and Nixon to be "intellectual Expert Liberals."

Let's have the tax rates under Reagan or Nixon or Eisenhower.

And False, just because you might not understand things as well as others, there's no need to mock someone for being more knowledgable than you. That's just insecurity and jealousy talking, and it's not becoming.

Certainly your an expert in something? I know -- misusing quote marks! See? We all have our special areas of expertise! And so there's no reason to make fun of people who are more expert than you in other areas.

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

This will destroy infrastructure generations of Kansans have built up through hard work and working together. It will hurt Kansas, we will drop below Mississippi in wretched service and education. Home owners will especially be paying Koch and industries bills.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 2 months ago

Just wait until they start doing what Tennessee is doing in their schools and white washing the history of slavery (no pun intended but the irony of the phrase is painful). They already have cp schools with no income tax. I guess making them further cy is relative. Hey, Kansas! Look what you have to look forward to!

turtle524 3 years, 2 months ago

This is just a example of modern day slavery people. The rich making money on someone elses back. We voted these people into office and they are robbing us blind. Wake up people!!!!

ksjayhawk74 3 years, 2 months ago

The original Boston Tea Party was about taxation without representation.

In Brownbackistan we have to deal with representation without taxation.

Joe Hyde 3 years, 2 months ago

I appreciate the clarity of Mr. Dickinson's article and hope that soon he submits a follow-up article in which he lists the states that, in his view, offer fair tax systems. That information would be useful to Kansans who have begun seriously thinking of leaving here to take up residence in another state where both the political tone and tax structure are balanced and fair.

laughingatallofu 3 years, 2 months ago

It's a race to the bottom. Sam Brownback idolizes Rick Perry, and wants Kansas to be as in deep doo-doo as Texas is. This tax law may very well get us there. By the time the citizens of Kansas who elected this governor/legislature realize the wreckage produced by these yahoos, it'll be too late. A lot of people are going to get rich and won't care, and a lot of people are going to be, well, screwed. And don't forget that Sam still wants to be President of them United States of 'merica so that he can get Congress to pass a law designating Sundays fro 7 to 8 pm "Family Hour". Henry Louis Mencken once said, "No one has ever gone broke underestimating the intelligence of the American People."

ksjayhawk74 3 years, 2 months ago

Try as he might, I don't think Sammy is even on the short list for Romney's Vice President pick.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

Sam the Sham will run on his tax cutting record in 2016 (assuming Obama wins, which appears likely). Sammy will come in dead last in every caucus and primary and quit after 2 months. He will then return to Kansas to finish destroying the state before retiring to Scottsdale to live off his wife's money.

verity 3 years, 2 months ago

Or any list for VP. I think he's pretty much screwed as far as national politics go. He's even becoming a liability to the Kochs---way to much negative attention being drawn to them because of him. See the TC-J article and replies referenced above by Bob Keeshan. Seems Lawrence isn't the only place that has "liberals" opposed to the new tax law---unless all you nutty Lawrence liberals are also spending your time posting in Topeka.

camper 3 years, 2 months ago

Looks like we are moving toward a plutocracy as mentioned in the above comments. Seems like we are throwing away all of the progress, the middle class, and the best infrastructure in the world (post WWII) for such a small minority of the wealthy. Do we forget how much our free market system has prospered and assisted by progress, the middle class, and infrastructure?

Mixolydian 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm only going to comment on the article and not the tax bill (of which I'm still shocked it was signed)

The headline says "most regressive in the nation."

The article says "among the most regressive in the nation,"

Which one is it?

It would have been a more interesting and informative article if the author had compared Kansas' tax rates to other state's tax rates.

cato_the_elder 3 years, 2 months ago

And had he pointed out that some states have no state income tax at all.

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 2 months ago

This tax shift is more than no income tax; all those states with no income tax still tax corporations. In fact, some of them have the highest corporate taxes in the country.

cato_the_elder 3 years, 2 months ago

Under the new law, Subchapter C corporations in Kansas will still pay income tax. Sorry, pal.

JuanitaGolightly 3 years, 2 months ago

Republicans are always complaining about people who don't pay any tax (because they don't earn enough to do so, overlooking the fact that the poor pay disproportionate amounts of their income as sales taxes, the most regressive tax of all). Perhaps liberals should join in on this, now, and disparage all those who are not doing their fair share in contributing to the betterment of the state...especially since most of them now are those who are most able to do so.

The Republicans are all about supporting these freeloaders, and those who enacted this (and those who support them) are hypocrites! Sure, I'd be all in favor of supporting small businesses, but welfare for corporations and wealthy individuals is idiocracy at its best.

Fossick 3 years, 2 months ago

"In a law firm, for example, the partners will pay no tax, while the clerical staff will continue on the tax rolls."

Do the partners pay income tax at the regular federal and state rates on the income they receive from the partnership? Yes they do. Claim is false, letter is bogus. Next?

Fossick 3 years, 2 months ago

More easily said than done, as Uncle Sam is pretty particular about what constitutes income. You are correct that partners can avoid state income taxes by relying on dividends (which come from business income, already taxed at 35% federal rate), but they still pay federal taxes on dividends as well. They could get income via capital gains, but generally not in a law firm unless they sell out. And they still pay federal taxes.

The point is not that they can avoid certain state taxes - that's the whole reason for the law. It's that the blanket statement that they will pay no taxes at all (also implied by the authors talk about putting income in trusts and partnerships, which themselves pay taxes on earnings) is simply not true.

camper 3 years, 2 months ago

I don't think you are right. A partnership is not a separate tax entity, and the income "passes through" to the individuals return. Always has. Partnership income will still be taxable on your Federal return......you just won't need to include it on your Kansas return going forward.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

Fossick's comments are so idiotic and wrong they make my head hurt.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 2 months ago

Brownback added a tax increase on each vehicle at time of each motorized vehicle registration renewal. $4.00 each

It's called a DMV modernization fee = the new $40,000,000 computer that has been malfunctioning.

A fee is a tax simple as that. Look for more tax increases hidden behind the word fee or rate.

Jonathan Becker 3 years, 2 months ago

Fossick,

Partners take most of their income in the form of dividends, which are not subject to FICA, and now are not subject to state income taxes. Professor Dickinson's analsys is dead on, your analysis is not only false and bogus, but lacking connection to reality.

Fossick 3 years, 2 months ago

However, dividends are paid from business income (35% at the federal rate) and then they are taxed again as capital gains at the federal rate. The statement that "the partners pay no tax" is false and misleading. They pay it twice.

Fossick 3 years, 2 months ago

Agreed that this is the immediate context, but note how easily FICA taxes get added into the discussion, and note the author's conclusion: "Can a just society tax the poor while not taxing the rich?"

Kansas is, of course, not a society, but America is and is what comes to mind when someone starts talking about society. And it's far too easy to move rhetorically from "rich people don't pay tax on x kind of income at a state level" to "society not taxing the rich." Which is, IMO, exactly what the author does. Society not taxing the rich was true in Bourbon France. It's not true in Imperial America,

And it's also not true that even in Kansas, the rich pay no taxes, but they pay property and gas and sales and regular income taxes just like everyone else. But the conclusion is the quote I should have chosen in my first comment. My mistake.

Jonathan Becker 3 years, 2 months ago

Once again, Fossick, you demonstrate empty head, open mouth.

Dividends are taxed at 15% and have been since 2003. An S corporation or a partnership pays no federal tax, as they are pass-throughs for tax purposes and the shareholders or partners are taxed at the appropriate individual tax rate, not the corporate tax rates. Taxed only once, Bub. And now, the dividends received from an S Corporation, or a partnership, or a trust, will not be taxed by the State of Kansas. Still taxed at federal level but as dividends, not wages.

Disclaimer: As the owner of an S Corporation, I thank Governor idiot for the tax cut. But I protest because it is not a fair tax cut. I do not intend to hire new workers as my business model is based upon one person. A tax cut will not change the business model.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

Fossick is absolutely clueless. Partnersips pass the character and amount of income through to partners. Few businesses operate as Partnersips today, though. Most are LLC's or LLC's taxed as S Corps or S Corps taxed as S Corps. I have not read the new code , yet, but my understanding is ALL business income (non-wage) and investment income derived from a separate entity (trust, pship, corp) is now non taxable in Kansas.

Fossick 3 years, 2 months ago

Upon further review, apparently I am clueless. I withdraw my statement(s) therefore until I review the rules as they apply to S corps.

cowboy 3 years, 2 months ago

In his characteristically colorful style, Simpson told CNN's Fareed Zakaria that Republicans' rigid opposition to new tax revenues has hampered productivity and diminished the chances of reaching an agreement with Democrats on debt reduction.

"You can’t cut spending your way out of this hole," Simpson, who was appointed as co-chair of President Obama's Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform in 2010, said. "You can’t grow your way out of this hole, and you can’t tax your way out of this hole. So put that in your pipe and smoke it, we tell these people. This is madness."

Simpson continued: "If you want to be a purist, go somewhere on a mountaintop and praise the east or something. But if you want to be in politics, you learn to compromise. And you learn to compromise on the issue without compromising yourself. Show me a guy who won’t compromise and I’ll show you a guy with rock for brains."

verity 3 years, 2 months ago

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-27/simpson-bowles-see-recession-inflation-without-budget-action.html

This article about the interview referenced above is very interesting.

I didn't see this quote in this article, but love it: "If you want to be a purist, go somewhere on a mountaintop and praise the east or something."

kugrad 3 years, 2 months ago

It's very telling that the first to complain about the article include a non-Kansan with an extremely radical point of view typical of a fringe political movement. Then comes the chorus to put quotations around "expert" because, perhaps lacking one themselves, they don't value education and recognize expertise. When the counter-argument is to dismiss the expert without any substantive questioning of his credentials to speak to the issue at hand, you are not dealing with a rebuttal, but with propaganda) or a person who has bought into non-reason-based arguments.

The article is basically an accurate description of the law by an expert.

verity 3 years, 2 months ago

My main problem with libertarianism is that for many of it's adherents it seems to be as much of an ideology as any extreme fundamentalist religion. I would like to have a discussion with a libertarian who is open to listening and considering other views.

I read this article this morning, which I found very interesting.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/9409-the-oligarchys-rule-of-law-from-russian-to-oklahoma

If history is any indication, there will now be vicious attacks.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

you are far too kind to Libertarianism. They as every bit as self serving and repugnant as the worst of humanity. Take a look at Somalia, the libertarian paradise.

verity 3 years, 2 months ago

I didn't expect an attack from that side :~)

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 2 months ago

Verity-- good article.

The unshakably faithful libertarians can only imagine the utopias that their high priests have asserted in their liturgy. What they can't see is that real result of their dismantling of government would be to empower plutocrats like McClendon and the Kochs to truly do whatever they want, at everyone else's expense. Government wouldn't really be eliminated-- it'd truly be owned, lock, stock and barrel by the 0.1%,. All property, and property rights, would be theirs.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 2 months ago

I wasn't talking to you. Please don't respond to my posts.

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

He responded to verity's post, not to you.

Are you just a bully now, who wants to force people to do what you want?

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

Apparently you are.

That's too bad, and not at all consistent with Libertarian philosophy.

I don't "support" anything of the sort - I did comment that Jews in Germany during the Nazi years didn't have a "right to life", since the government didn't provide and protect one.

A horrible and horrifying example, to be sure, especially given that I'm Jewish, and have known people who were in CC camps, etc.

By the way, this idea of "natural rights" is rather useless, in the end, if you happen to be a Jew in Nazi Germany, or a rebel in Syria, etc. You can argue that those people have them, and yet the government kills them. What good is your belief?

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

I think, as I've said numerous times, that there are no such things as "natural rights", that being born human does not confer a set of "rights".

"Rights", meaning that which people are entitled to, come from societies and governments - different societies have differing sets of entitlements.

In Canada, for example, they believe people have the right to health care, whereas in the US, we don't believe that, at least not right now. They structure their society on that basis, and thus provide health care to all citizens. We don't do that.

Life, in it's raw form, is dangerous and fragile, for humans as well as other animals - we band together in societies, and animals band together in packs, in order to protect a variety of things.

I may believe that societies "should" provide and protect certain rights, but it's not based on a belief in "natural rights", as your beliefs are.

For example, if I believe that people should be honest, it's not because people have a "natural right" to honesty, it's just because I think honesty is a good thing.

There are many ways to formulate and articulate moral beliefs, other than "natural rights", and many philosophers have done so, from Aristotle to the present.

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm not going to answer your question again, for the "nth" time.

You know what I believe, if you can read my posts - I've explained my position quite clearly numerous times.

I don't believe in "natural rights" as you do.

Fossick 3 years, 2 months ago

"I would like to have a discussion with a libertarian who is open to listening and considering other views."

OK, I read it. What do you want to discuss?

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

Ayn Rand. Ron Paul. Alex Jones. That is all I have to say about libertarianism.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

I feel really sorry for anyone that reads Ayn Rand and doesn't immediately want to take a massive dump on the book.

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

Good for you. For every libertarian I've ever known:

Ayn Rand = the Bible Ron Paul = the Messiah Alex Jones = John the Baptist

Fossick 3 years, 2 months ago

I read Anthem once, right after Rush's 2112 came out. Does that count?

yourworstnightmare 3 years, 2 months ago

This tax bill is a clear example of government picking winners and losers.

The bill says that certain types of income are better than others (business income, investment income are the winners; salary income is the loser).

The government should stop picking winners and losers in the tax game. If we have an income tax, then all forms of income should be taxed equally.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 2 months ago

Eliminating tax revenues will put more and more out of jobs in Kansas. The Satan Sam Brownback pushing a laissez faire government tax free haven for the wealthy such as himself says he cannot put aside his selfish self centered motives. Makes for reckless management across the board.

Yet this wealthy Satan Sam Brownback allows the poor and middle class to support his selfish lifestyle with a sweet pay checck,medical insurance and retirement plan. ..... can we say the Satan Sam Brownback is a tax dollar moocher?

Satan has this Sam Brownback by the throat. That Satan which is ruled by fellow Satans two Koch brothers and Satans within the Wal-Mart money regiment. Are all wealthy people ruled by Satan...... no just a special few.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 2 months ago

Was "Satan" on the heavy-rotation list of talking points for planet killers this week?

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

I hope you're right, because if you're wrong we're going to have a massive budget deficit. I'm personally going to see my tax bill go down considerably because every penny of my income is from pass-through entities. I'm still opposed to the plan because I think it is pure folly. It's also extremely regressive, as the LTE states. I've made my opinion clear on the subject, what I'm waiting for is the people in small town Kansas, the poor and the rest of those negatively affected by this tax policy to speak up. So far I've been absolutely shocked by the silence.

Carol Bowen 3 years, 2 months ago

Let's wait. The changes are so extreme, the results shouldn't take long.

kind_servant 3 years, 2 months ago

Who are these voters (what are the demographics and how many of the population voted) who elect these officials who write these frightening laws... both voter and elected officials who seemingly cannot understand that wealthy businesses/people and corporations did not "get there" by themselves? Here's my take:
Wealthy business people and corporations.... they have used our tax-paid infrastructure for transportation and communication; they have used our tax paid police EMT and fire departments for help; they have used public transport -- that their peon employees need to use it to get to work;
they have used our government laws and taxes to make/give themselves all kinds of write-offs and loopholes and even manage to give themselves tax free status ( e.g. GE no taxes paid at all in 2010; incoming corporations working out "incentive" tax-free status for 10 years in communities they enter!).
*...and MORE.

The Plutocracy definitely seems to have an agenda which seems to be succeeding as indicated by the passing of this Kansas bill. Here's the agenda JMHO:

Dumb down [and thereby make altogether malleable to propaganda] the peasants especially via attacking public education; and tax the hard working blue collar people, while not taxing the higher incomes. Oh, and use the tax dollars to benefit the rich. Desired Result: a two-tiered society --peasant-servants, and the super-rich "war lords" with the country utterly and completely ruled by the plutocracy.

How come so many people cannot see this utterly obvious-to-me agenda being played out nowadays?

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

A lot of farmers have other job, or members of their family do. They will have this "new" hit on their backs too. Brownback should resign.

nekansan 3 years, 2 months ago

No "IF" about it. This passed and with the Governor's signature is now law in Kansas.

Stymie 3 years, 2 months ago

The Professor wrote a letter about Kansas State budget and taxation which has nothing to do with federal deficits. If you do want to talk about federal deficits let's talk about how Kansas receives more in federal funds than it pays. Want to talk pork, go talk to the Republicans running this State.

Jayhawk1958 3 years, 2 months ago

Wanna tell me why that is? I'm not going to let you off the hook because you say its so.

camper 3 years, 2 months ago

2001 Budget Submitted by President Clinton (1.9 Trillion) 2009 Budget Submitted by President Bush (3.1 Trillion) 2012 Budget Submitted by President Obama (3.7 Trillion)

So the $5 + trillion is all on Obama? What about interest from prior administration debt? Also, lower tax revenues due to the recession, and yes, the Bush taxes from the past and as extended are also adding to the debt. Outrage at President Obama is misplaced.

camper 3 years, 2 months ago

Federal spending has gone up under President Obama, but in his defense it is a smaller rate than it was under President Bush. Bush had to deal with post 911 and Obama is dealing with a bad economy.

Under a bad economy, a large contibuting factor to the debt is lower tax receipts because fewer are working and many are making less. Lower tax revenues is not brought up much in the conservative arena.

GatewayLSAT 3 years, 2 months ago

This is exactly why I will never live in Kansas again, despite my love for Lawrence. I guess the idea here is to make sure that the electorate is so uneducated that they don't vote the school board out NEXT TIME they outlaw the teaching of evolution...

GatewayLSAT 3 years, 2 months ago

The greatest travesty of the tea party movement is that it started as an anti-corporate movement expressing frustration at the Republican policies that oppose the working class. One it was co-opted by the Koch brothers somehow that message went away.

I really don't see how millions of people think that pulling funding from schools somehow makes our country stronger. The baby boomers received perhaps the best education in the history of the world and our country reaped the benefits during the '80s and '90s when they were at their earning peak.

Can people be so short-sighted that they don't see that we're cutting our own throats here? It's no accident that our high-tech companies have to recruit overseas while Americans are out of work - we're feeling the effects of slipping into the low 20's in the educational rankings.

The Republican party is the puppet and mouthpiece of corporate America, whose objective is very clearly to make money regardless of consequence. That's how capitalism works and the corporations shouldn't be judged if they follow the law. That's exactly why it IS the role of government to regulate - to instill a safety against blind dollar-chasing at the public's detriment. Corporations are inherently AMORAL (not immoral, mind you) - their thinking doesn't even factor in treating the public humanely, so the government "OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, AND FOR THE PEOPLE" better do so!

JackMcKee 3 years, 2 months ago

To be fair, I think both political parties do the bidding of corporate America.

Hudson Luce 3 years, 2 months ago

"Still, it is worth noting that during 2006 and 2007, the seven states with no income tax whatsoever, Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming, led the nation in net population growth." source: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/nostatetax.htm

"To rank the state’s tax burdens, the Tax Foundation compared the total taxes that state residents pay as a percentage of per capita income. Included in the total taxes are local taxes such as property taxes and local sales taxes. The states whose residents pay the least in taxes are:

Alaska at 6.4% of income Nevada at 6.6% of income Wyoming at 7% of income Florida at 7.4% of income New Hampshire at 7.6% of income

It’s interesting to note that none of these states have an individual income tax." source: http://taxes.about.com/od/statetaxes/a/Highest-State-And-Local-Taxes.htm (note that these figures are as of 2011)

Hudson Luce 3 years, 2 months ago

Having lived in Florida, the level and quality of state-provided services is far superior to that found in Kansas, and the total level of taxation (property and sales taxes) is 8.8% as opposed to that of Kansas at 9.4%.

State income taxation is actually prohibited by the Florida state constitution:

"Meanwhile, some states never talk of instituting an income tax. Florida, for instance, has a prohibition written right into the state constitution. “It’s not a political litmus test here,” says Robert Weissert, director of communications for Florida TaxWatch. “It’s completely off the table. We have a consumption-based economy here, and so we have a consumption-based tax system.” As if a constitutional prohibition wasn’t enough, a recent voter initiative now requires that any new statewide tax can only be enacted with two-thirds of the votes in an election. “So that’s why I can say unequivocally that barring a constitutional convention, it’s just not in the culture here,” Weissert says." source: http://www.governing.com/topics/finance/politics-behind-not-levying-personal-state-income-taxes.html

Calijhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Let's take the other extreme. I live in California, not because I want to, but because the former tax system in Kansas contributed to total lack of opportunity in my field.

In the 10 years I have been here, California has become the bright and shining example of what happens when a PRO-gressive agenda, and tax system, is allowed to accelerate out of control. The 'uneducated' Kansas populace Gateway's elitist ilk love to make fun of look like geniuses compared to we 'enlightened' Californians. We 'smart', progressive people perpetually elect liberals to save us from the big, bad, corporations. These 'progressives' (get used to the term) repay their public-sector union bankroll by voting their members' wages far in excess of private sector, and obscene pensions (hey Topeka State Office Building cubicle hamster---how would YOU like a $90,000 salary, to retire at 60 with 90% of it, and FREE healthcare for life?).

Now they've got to pay for it. They hike the sales and gas taxes to the nations' highest rate. This is before they slap layer upon layer of state regulations on businesses, large and small, not to protect the public, but to gather revenue in the form of fines and penalties. Don't get caught running a red light here, either. The fine is $200, but the local and state fees will bump your final hit to over $1,500.

Faced with the cost of regulation and taxes, and fees these 'smart' liberals impose, small businesses in California are closing at record rates -- many long, established firms that simply can't make it work here anymore. Those that aren't are moving in a mass exodus, most to Texas. Why? Because the 'dumb, uneducated' people down there decided to make it profitable to be there. The businesses mean jobs, which mean purchasing power to feed other businesses, and more jobs. The tax base expands, and the 'stupid people' in Texas live in a place whose statehouse is not hovering over every facet of their lives trying to figure out another way of sucking money out of them.

Understand that if GatewayLSAT's has it his/her way, you dumb, stupid dolts in Kansas will have it exactly like us 'enlightened' people in California. Shrinking tax base, businesses bolting, highest unemployment, highest tax rate, highest welfare per capita, and a $16 billion deficit with zero chance of balancing without the help from -- you guessed it -- tax dollars from you 'dumb, uneducated' people whose leaders were 'stupid' enough to make your state business-friendly.

Considering what a PRO-gressive tax has done to California, we out here ask you...do you REALLY want to be 'smart' like GatewayLSAT -- and US?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 2 months ago

Umm, the (very Republican) Kansas Legislature just passed $billions (with a "b") in tax cuts without any corresponding spending cuts. Are the impending budget deficits a "PrOgReSsIvE cOnSpIrAcY?

tbaker 3 years, 2 months ago

Under which scenario is society as a whole better off? When people get to keep more of what they worked for and earned, or when the government gets to take that money from them and decide how to spend it? Hummmmm….

Are all the things government currently spends money on utterly essential?

Isn’t the natural state of government to grow and expand? Didn’t the founders warn of us of this? Must it always grow in size and scope, or can is be forced to shrink from time to time?

Is government spending money on things outside the scope of constitutional authority?

Are we getting our money’s worth from everything government spends our tax money on? Is it being done better, faster, and cheaper than the private sector? Is there no fraud waste or abuse in government spending going on?

What is the economic impact of taking a dollar out of private hands for the government to spend versus one spent in the private sector? Under which circumstance does that dollar of spending do the most economic good for the most people?

Why didn’t Mr. Dickenson answer any of these questions? He sounds biased in favor of government spending. Aren’t law professors supposed to be the masters of critically reasoned arguments? He sounds like a bitter, partisan statist.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 2 months ago

"Under which scenario is society as a whole better off? When people get to keep more of what they worked for and earned, or when the government gets to take that money from them and decide how to spend it? Hummmmm…."

OK, I didn't read any further than this. I'm guessing that a black-and-white answer follows. Am I right?

camper 3 years, 2 months ago

Your two scenarios are black and white, and oversimplified. We are all better off when we have opportunity to work and earn a good living and also have services provided (via taxes) that make our communities and infrastructure stronger. This adds to the quality of life.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 2 months ago

If I'd read just a little further, I'd have had my answer.

avarom 3 years, 1 month ago

Ms, Bethell running?? Why Should She?? 6/4/2012 What gives Mrs. Bethell the right to run as a legislative representative just because her husband was a representative...that sets up a very leery situation in the Kansas State House for other fallen victims that are in the government, and sounds like some Mickey Mouse shenanigans to me. Does a Pension eligibility right come into play here?? Does this mean that any government official’s wife can take over in death?? The only reason the Mrs. Can't run next year, is she does not even know if she will be in the same District. It was stated in print, that she did not have the same government opinions as her husband anyway! No wonder Kansas is such aid Mess! OMG!! -Madame A-

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