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Archive for Friday, May 4, 2012

KU Medical Center in middle of abortion legislative fight

May 4, 2012

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— The Kansas House on Friday advanced a wide-ranging anti-abortion bill, and supporters of the measure offered a preview of a fight they intend to have with the Kansas University Medical Center.

State Rep. Lance Kinzer, R-Olathe, speaking against an amendment to the bill that was sought by KU, said the school was using tax dollars to train medical residents in abortion procedures.

“What we should have done is say it is not the public policy that we are going to pay residents with taxpayer dollars to kill babies. That is what we should’ve done,” said Kinzer. “No taxpayer dollars to kill babies,” he repeated, which drew applause from anti-abortion legislators.

State Rep. John Grange, R-El Dorado, who was presiding over the House chamber at the time reminded legislators they are not supposed to applaud speakers during debate. “Please, let’s maintain respect for the institution,” he said.

The dispute has been over a provision in the bill that says no state employee can perform an abortion.

According to KU, doctors in training at the Medical Center in Kansas City, Kan. are considered state employees, and accreditation requirements say those who are being trained as obstetrics-gynecologists must gain experience with induced abortion and complications because of abortion, unless they have a religious or moral objection. The KU residents gain this experience at facilities not owned or operated by the state.

In negotiations over the past few weeks, legislators amended the bill to bypass this dispute by designating the OB-GYN medical residents weren’t state employees. But the amendment would expire in June 2013.

On Friday, state Rep. Steve Johnson, R-Assaria, sought to remove that “sunset” provision and bypassing the issue permanently. This would help KU remove this issue from any accreditation discussion, Johnson said.

But Kinzer said that the bypass and one-year period was part of an accommodation to KU and that the school was trying to go back on the agreement and using a freshman legislator to do that.

“Frankly, it is disgusting to me that we are going to allow that to go on another year,” he said.

He said once the legislative session was over, anti-abortion advocates would focus on the issue of abortion training at KU Medical Center. “We’re going to deal with this and establish a long-term policy,” he said.

Johnson’s amendment failed, 44-62.

After the vote, the KU Medical Center said: “KU will continue to work with policymakers to ensure the goals are clear: Maintaining a strong and accredited medical residency program for our state. We applaud those who have worked with us to craft language which will protect our accreditation and today were supportive of efforts to make that language a permanent provision and not have it expire.”

Later, House Minority Leader Paul Davis, D-Lawrence, who supports abortion rights, said Kinzer “displayed some candor on what his intentions are.”

Davis added, “He made it very clear that there is a viewpoint in the House that is not concerned with the accreditation issue and they would like to go on a collision course,” with the Medical Center.

A final vote on the entire bill is expected Monday.

The overall legislation would declare abortions illegal if they are performed only because a woman doesn’t like the gender of the fetus. The bill also requires physicians to inform women seeking an abortion about the risk of breast cancer. A large body of research says there is no link between abortion and breast cancer. The bill also would have the effect of creating new taxes on expenses related to abortion services or insurance coverage for abortion, and imposes state sales taxes on drugs and medications used in an abortion.

Comments

ksjayhawk74 2 years, 7 months ago

""What we should have done is say it is not the public policy that we are going to pay residents with taxpayer dollars to kill babies. That is what we should've done," said Kinzer. "No taxpayer dollars to kill babies," he repeated, which drew applause from anti-abortion legislators."...

However, with these new laws in effect, the State of Kansas will be MAKING MONEY from abortions...

kansanjayhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

Abortion is the brutal violation of the human rights of unborn children. Many of us who have lived in Kansas for many years have been fighting to end abortion at KU and any other public institution in this State. Training doctors to kill babies is unacceptable in Kansas! We own this University and it must be accountable to the people of the State in this area. Since the early 90's the Kansas Legislature has been moving toward the pro-life position and it is wonderful to see our government finally respond to our objection to our tax monies being used to fund abortion and/or abortion training. There is a difference between some claimed constitutional right to abortion and the requirement that the taxpayer pay for it.

Katara 2 years, 7 months ago

Isn't it amazing how some are so unconcerned with facts and telling the truth?

Fact; There is no link between abortion and breast cancer Fact: Abortions are not occurring for the purpose of sex selection. Fact: No taxpayer monies are funding abortion.

FTA: "State Rep. John Grange, R-El Dorado, who was presiding over the House chamber at the time reminded legislators they are not supposed to applaud speakers during debate. "Please, let's maintain respect for the institution," he said."

Oh, please. As if this batch of legislators ever had any respect for the institution.

verity 2 years, 7 months ago

Katara, if you have God on your side, then it's God's will that you lie---you have to do whatever it takes to get it done. A lie for God immediately becomes the truth.

Sean Livingstone 2 years, 7 months ago

God judges... Human shouldn't.... but human always like to assume the role of God to judge. If people like to go to hell, why should human prevent them? Who is Al-Qaeda to tell us what they think we should behave? So who is us to tell others how they should live their lives?

verity 2 years, 7 months ago

Yes, humans should only judge when they know that they have God on their side.

Jeff Kilgore 2 years, 7 months ago

Yes, "we" do "own" this university and it's up to rational people to stop this idiotic bullying. Abortion education needs funding since it's the law.

What happens to in vitro fertilization leftover embryos? Do these embryos have "souls?" Does anyone protest for those "killed babies?"

Roe v. Wade. End of discussion.

Sean Livingstone 2 years, 7 months ago

jkilgore, Kansas no longer "own" the university.... the majority of the funding comes from non-state sources.. :)

JayhawkFan1985 2 years, 7 months ago

You are right that KU Med is owned by the people of Kansas.

One problem is that not everyone shares your views. You are entitled to your views, but so are the rest of us. Our society has always measured the start of life with birth. That is why we celebrate birthdays, not conception days. In the past, families didn't even name newborns until they were about two years old because they wanted so called family names to survive from one generation to the next. That is why gravestones are often marked "Baby Boy Smith" or "Baby Girl Jones."

Another problem is that you fail to realize that EVERYONE is PRO LIFE. The so called Pro Life movement doesn't have a monoply on that. People who say they are pro life usually mean they are opposed to abortion. Often these same people are willing to kill others whether it is through terrorism like with executing Dr. Tiller in Wichita or executing convicted felons. People are just "DIFFERENT" pro life. What I object to is people who are opposed to abortion, like our Governor, advocating for cutting social services for people everyone agrees are people, namely the living. Children, the elderly, immigrants, the infirm, etc., all should be assisted by society. Until the so called pro life movement supports social services and opposes the death penalty and opposes terrorism, they will fail to meet my test for being pro life.

Phillbert 2 years, 7 months ago

"But Kinzer said the bypass and one-year period was part of an accommodation to KU and that the school was trying to go back on the agreement and using a freshman legislator to do that."

Apparently freshmen legislators are like women in that Lance Kinzer thinks they are too stupid to think for themselves and must have their decisions made for them, preferably by him.

verity 2 years, 7 months ago

Are the anti-abortion folks really this cruel? They've lost any pretense at being pro-life.

Cait McKnelly 2 years, 7 months ago

They lost any pretense at being "pro-life" a long time ago.

JackMcKee 2 years, 7 months ago

While they're at it they should also ban the teaching of open heart surgery. Sometimes abortions are performed as a life saving procedure just like every other procedure taught in medical school.

Ian Legler 2 years, 7 months ago

There is talk that if the changes to funding take effect and KUMed no longer can teach abortion practices they would be in danger of losing their accreditation; the only way around it is to send the students to other locations "nearby" that would allow them to learn ...

Seriously Kansas, the whole "evoloution v. creationism" argument already has us as a laughing stock. Please remove head from sphincter then proceed to legislate in a proper way ... I dare say there are probably more pressing issues facing our state as a whole...

yourworstnightmare 2 years, 7 months ago

“Please, let’s maintain respect for the institution,”

That ship sailed long ago.

Keith 2 years, 7 months ago

I have anecdotes that are just the opposite of yours, so I guess it all cancels out.

yourworstnightmare 2 years, 7 months ago

The anecdote might have more to do with the crying woman's company (weiser) than anything else.

I imagine wesier reminds her of the anniversary and makes her feel like crap about it.

The nutty religious call this "counseling".

verity 2 years, 7 months ago

Keith, I also have anecdotes that support the opposite view. I've never met a woman who did regret having an abortion.

Guess we double cancel wiser.

Incredible 2 years, 7 months ago

Then you and I need to meet. I have never once regretted the decision I made to terminate my pregnancy. Not once. Women who do typically feel regret regarding other matters surrounding the decision to have an abortion and use the abortion as the excuse.

Cant_have_it_both_ways 2 years, 7 months ago

Isn't it wonderful that a woman goes into an abortion clinic will the full intension of killing a life and gets no punishment, but the guy that has a couple of beers, gets into his car without any intension of killing someone and loosed his liscense for a couple of years, is forced to have an interlock device to the tune of $75/month and can never have it expunged from his record.

Seems to me that it would be fair that if you are going to have an abortion, then you should be spayed at the same time so you will never have the chance to kill someone again.

Isn't it wonderful that we have all these save the chicken types while out of the other side of their mouths, they worship killing the unborn humans.

Flame away.

JackMcKee 2 years, 7 months ago

so if a drunk driver kills a woman driving to have an abortion he's actually doing a good deed? I'm trying to follow your logic here.

werekoala 2 years, 7 months ago

Serious question: if abortion was made illegal, what punishment would you propose for women who had one illegally? Just sterilization? Are they fined? Do they go to prison? Something else?

kuguardgrl13 2 years, 7 months ago

If the government decides to start spaying women who get abortions, then rapists should be neutered. And not just a vasectomy. If you're going to use those words, then I expect it to happen just like with the family dog. While we're at it, we can start human husbandry to produce the smartest, most likely to survive children. Maybe they'll be smart enough to fix what we apparently can't.

werekoala 2 years, 7 months ago

I am personally pro-choice, primarily because I do not have a uterus, so I don't really feel qualified to make decisions for people who do.

That said, I can understand why people on the anti-abortion side wouldn't want their tax dollars being used to pay for abortions. (just like I would prefer MY tax dollars not be used to pay for expensive, poorly-managed invasions, but that's another conversation...)

But to me there is a big difference between paying for routine procedures, and paying for the education of doctors to national medical standards. Like it or not, abortion occurs, and will continue to occur even if made completely illegal. Failing to fully educate future doctors on an area of medicine due to distaste for the subject matter is just stupid.

Personally, I consider circumcision barbaric. But I know that despite my opinion, they will continue to be performed. So I sure as heck want a doctor to have some training on the subject before he takes a razor to little Jimmy's little jimmy for the first time...

kuguardgrl13 2 years, 7 months ago

I completely agree. Our medical students should be trained in how to deal with abortions, especially correcting botched ones. Women will still have backwoods abortions even if doctors won't perform them in a hospital where the health of the mother can be monitored.

Boston_Corbett 2 years, 7 months ago

The position that Lance Kinzer desires (and evidently Kansanjayhawk, and Cant_have_it_both_ways) would simply end the existence of a medical training school in Kansas, due to accreditation requirements.

And guess what, Kinzer, and his band of merry clappers do not control accreditation requirements.

It would save us a bucket of money, but closing the medical school would be kissing many future Kansas physicians goodby. So goodbye physicians, goodbye KU School of Medicine. Call Rep Kinzer when you have a heart attack or your child gets sick.

Who is really supporting "Life" on this issue? Not the Kinzer crowd.

kuguardgrl13 2 years, 7 months ago

Closing KU Med would not just affect doctors in Kansas. Nursing students and medical professions majors (except for pharmacy) complete their final two years at KUMC.

Anthony Mall 2 years, 7 months ago

A persons relationship with whatever God they pray to is very private and should not be judged online... Life saving abortions are performed with some regularity in this country and I for one would appreciate those doctors to be trained with the best medical knowledge possible... KU Medical Center has some of the best doctors in the country and the world teaching the next generation of medical professionals so it would make sence to me that doctors learn how to perform these procedures from the best...

Cait McKnelly 2 years, 7 months ago

Oh but according to Kansanjayhawk there is no such thing as an abortion to save the life of the mother! He/she believes that all such abortions can be treated in such a way that saves both. Of course, never mind that KJH isn't a physician, much less an OB physician or perinatologist. But he/she obviously knows that aborting to save a woman's life is a lie. I have two friends, both of whom wanted their babies very much and both of whom had to abort toward the end of the second trimester for life threatening complications. When I have recounted their stories, KJH has on separate occasions called me an outright liar! I guess if you say something loud enough and long enough it just has to be true.

kansanjayhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

you completely mischaracterize my views. Why do you not debate the issues rather than make personal attacks. Abortion has never made any social issue better or any problem go away.

pace 2 years, 7 months ago

If by problem you include life threatening medical condition, then termination of a pregnancy have resolved problems.

neo_star 2 years, 7 months ago

If you can't handle the right of a woman to have an abortion under the U.S. Constitution and don't want your tax dollars to somehow indirectly pay for one, then logically you should leave the United States of Amercia. Please move to Africa. The good people of Kansas will fix these right-wing legislative attacks in the next election just like they fixed the mess-ups of the right-wing State Board of Education.

yourworstnightmare 2 years, 7 months ago

It is time for moderate republicans to step up an end this nonsense.

If Kinzer has his way, the KU medical center could face serious accreditation issues.

Kinzer and his right wing ilk have embarrassed the Kansas GOP for far too long. He is now starting to embarrass KU medical center and the entire medical profession in the state.

End the embarrassment, moderate GOPers.

Enlightenment 2 years, 7 months ago

Intolerance in the guise of religion isn't a good practice. Also, so tired of the ultra conservatives trying to pander to the Christian "god fearing" good folks while they screw over everyone by offering every tax break imaginable to the wealthy and corporations.

Kansas state government needs to stop trying to push moral bills and start looking at improving the state's economy.

Linda Endicott 2 years, 7 months ago

Just when I think things can't get any worse or any crazier in this state, I'm proven wrong...

Maybe this is the real invasion of the body snatchers...maybe all those legislators aren't really PEOPLE...

kansanjayhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

Abortion training to save the life of the mother can be accomplished without killing a human fetus.

Cait McKnelly 2 years, 7 months ago

The US ranks 31th...THIRTYFIRST!...in the world in maternal mortality. A woman giving birth today is twice as likely to die in childbirth as her mother was. This statistic is shameful and embarrassing. I think it's time this country and this state get real about what their true agenda is where women are concerned.

verity 2 years, 7 months ago

I finally figured out how to turn the autocorrect off. On a Mac you go to System Preferences, then to Language & Text, then Text and unselect "Correct spelling automatically."

Can't help you with a PC.

pace 2 years, 7 months ago

A woman has the right to choose to terminate her pregnancy.

pace 2 years, 7 months ago

Goofy law designed to degrade medical skills degrade law and care.

usnsnp 2 years, 7 months ago

Here is a question that should be asked: If your daughter or wife were raped and became pregnant would you require this person to carry the fetus to term.

Cait McKnelly 2 years, 7 months ago

Although I support your question for rhetorical reasons, I object to it on another level. A man's wife/daughter is not his property and, objectively, he should have no say in it. This is not a matter of his "property rights" being violated. More appropriately, I would have said, "If your wife or daughter were raped and became pregnant would you support any decision she made to carry the fetus to term or abort it?"

kansanjayhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

Abortion is the dismemberment of a human child and it is a brutal violation of the civil rights of the unborn. Pro-life citizens advocate to protect the unborn and bring a culture of life to protect the born!

pace 2 years, 7 months ago

One can't just assign civil rights. Civil rights are a matter of law. I can not say cats or televisions have civil rights. It is not accurate. You could say you think they should have civil rights or you think women shouldn't, or people of some kind or another shouldn't. No termination of a pregnancy is not currently a violation of a civil right.

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