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Archive for Tuesday, June 19, 2012

Regents to consider tuition, admissions, expansions

June 19, 2012

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Kansas University would become pricier and more particular under proposals before the Kansas Board of Regents.

During its monthly meeting starting Wednesday, the board will take up tuition increase requests from the six regents universities and a plan by KU to put in place tougher admission standards.

Tuition increases

Most KU students pay tuition under a compact that guarantees their rate for four years. Under that compact, incoming KU freshmen who are Kansas residents would pay an additional 4.9 percent in tuition and fees, bringing the cost of a 15 credit hour semester to $4,839. Tuition and fees for nonresident freshmen would increase by 5 percent, to $11,874.

Transfer students and students who stay longer than four years pay a different standard tuition rate. That rate, combined with fees, is also proposed to increase by 4.9 percent for residents to $4,444, and 6.7 percent for nonresidents to $10,865.

Kansas State is requesting a 5.1 percent increase in tuition and fees; Emporia State, 6.5 percent; Pittsburg State, 6.4 percent; Fort Hays State, 3.7 percent; and Wichita State, 3.5 percent.

Admission standards

KU also will be asking the regents for the green light on increasing the school’s admission standards.

If new regulations supporting the request are approved by December, then KU will start using the new standards in August 2016.

KU officials have said the goal is to raise the profile of the university by getting better students who have a greater chance of being successful at KU and then staying in Kansas to pursue their careers.

Currently, admission criteria are the same for all six regents universities. A Kansas high school graduate can be admitted if he or she:

• Has an ACT score of at least 21 or SAT score of at least 980 or

• Ranks in the top one-third of the high school class or

• Has a 2.0 GPA on a 4.0 scale in the Kansas Qualified Precollege Admissions curriculum.

Under the proposed standards, to be automatically admitted to KU, graduating high school students would have to complete the pre-college curriculum with a GPA of 2.5 or higher, along with one of the following:

• A minimum 3.0 GPA and an ACT score of at least 24 or SAT score of 1090 or

• A minimum 3.25 GPA and an ACT score of 21 or SAT score of 980.

Students who don’t meet the criteria will have their applications reviewed by a committee that will look at numerous considerations, including whether the applying student would be a first generation college student, or is the child or grandchild of KU graduates, and has the potential to succeed academically.

Approximately 65 percent of the most recent class at KU would have cleared the proposed standards and been admitted, according to Jack Martin, a spokesman for KU.

He said the remaining 35 percent would have had their applications reviewed by the admissions committee and a majority of those would have been admitted. Martin added, “ … and the plan is to use that application review process to link up students with first-year experiences and academic services that will help them be successful.”

KU also wants to set the deadline at Feb. 1 for applications for automatic admission. Research shows that students who apply by Feb. 1 have a better chance of succeeding, and this will also allow the admissions committee to examine later applications more thoroughly, the school said.

Other business

Other items before the regents this week include:

• KU wants to increase from $65 million to $80.6 million the cost of a new classroom building for the engineering school. The additional cost will provide an additional 29,000 square feet, which is needed to meet projected student growth, the school said. KU intends to issue bonds for the increase.

• An Oral Health Task Force will deliver its report on ways to increase the number of dentists in Kansas.

For the short term, the task force recommends purchasing seats from dental schools in surrounding states and require that students who fill those seats return to Kansas and work with under-served populations.

Over the long term, the task force says Kansas needs to establish a Kansas dental school.

• Consider specific funding requests from all public higher education institutions, including $30 million in state funds to help build a new $75 million medical education building. KU also is seeking a recurring annual appropriation of $2.5 million to support a Kansas Institute for Translational Chemical Biology to help in drug discovery efforts.

Comments

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

Man, remember the days when people used to consider a quality in-state school to be a public benefit and didn't push even the middle class out of higher education with tuition increases? Yeah, those were good times.

I'm not sure I'd have been able to go to KU today. Nearly $10,000 a year before the price of books, supplies, and housing? So close to double that, all told? Even living dirt cheap, that's more than a full time minimum wage job to pay for that. These kids are going to graduate with more in debt than they'll have in annual earning potential.

Man, I hope the Kochs enjoy those tax breaks, because we'll all be paying for them for a long time.

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

I've got my education and will probably help my progeny establish state residency somewhere else, so it's no longer really "my" trouble. I don't blame one person for being myopic about future investments, no. I'm just pointing out the biggest benefactor.

Phoghorn 2 years, 6 months ago

We could try taxing the Koch's so much that the move ALL their money and themselves overseas. Then we could find somebody else to blame, tax, and drive away.

Phoghorn 2 years, 6 months ago

My KU degrees are not paying off...I did not need that stupid apostrophe!

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

Or we could try taxing them at the previous rate, where they didn't move overseas with all their money.

Phoghorn 2 years, 6 months ago

When tax rates were higher, there were more deductions available then there are now. Thus, nobody actually payed those rates. Consequently, this is one of those apples and oranges cases.

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

Not true. The deductions eliminated primarily were those available to the lower and middle classes. The new state law takes away the Koch income tax liability completely. The state will see less tax revenue total, and the beneficiaries of the cuts will be disproportionately the wealthiest. Robin Hood in reverse.

Lest you try to argue that the Kochs will invest this money back into their business by increasing employment, I'll point out that historically that has not been what happened. In fact, they've decreased their overall job count while earning higher than ever profits.

Phoghorn 2 years, 6 months ago

You can thank the Alternative Minimum Tax for that. This tax was originally aimed at only the wealthy. At first, it only affected the wealty, but today even the upper-middle pays it.

Be careful about what you wish for. Ie, the Koch Brothers paying more in taxes. These taxes have a way of creeping down to include many more people.

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

No. I can thank Brownback for signing a bill that eliminates the Koch's state tax liability completely. State. Federal. Not the same thing.

Phoghorn 2 years, 6 months ago

Yes, I get that state and fed taxes are not the same. I was under the impression that when you mentioned previous rates in your 1:10 post, you meant federal, which is what I have been addressing. The state plan from Brownback won't actually make a real difference until next year.

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

The state trend of underfunding higher ed has been ongoing but could conceivably have reversed as the economy recovered if they hadn't intentionally borked it up by eviscerating the tax code.

Peter Macfarlane 2 years, 6 months ago

" KU officials have said the goal is to raise the profile of the university by getting better students who have a greater chance of being successful at KU and then staying in Kansas to pursue their careers".

I understand the theory behind the first goal, but I am unclear about how the university plans to help keep graduates working on their careers in Kansas. Seems like pie in the sky to me.

SnakeFist 2 years, 6 months ago

On the one hand, "Kansas University would become pricier and more particular..."

On the other hand, "...an additional 29,000 square feet, which is needed to meet projected student growth."

Is it just me, or are these people not on the same page?

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

Growth in the program most likely to generate the highest starting salary on graduation. Such a salary is necessary to pay off the student loans they'll incur getting that degree.

Phoghorn 2 years, 6 months ago

Try working while in college to pay of tuition so you can graduate without debt. Worked for me.

bad_dog 2 years, 6 months ago

Per the above article, it will cost incoming freshmen $9,678/year merely for tuition. Books, computers/software, lab fees, activity fees, etc. will add to the tab. The average student will need almost $1,000/month just to feed the educational machine. Then there are the ordinary expenses for food, clothing, housing, utilities and transportation. That can easily add another $1,000/month or more to the tab. So while your suggestion has some merit, it's not the panacea you infer.

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

Yeah, it worked for me, too. Back when it could work. Can you name a part time job that pays $20,000 a year? I'm sure today's entering freshman class will thank you for the tip.

Tomato 2 years, 6 months ago

I did the math for a presentation recently. Kids who live at home, work and take JCCC classes for the first two years can pull it off very easily, especially when you throw in the tax credit (unfortunately the additional tax rebate ends in 2012, but that is another $2500).

But it gets considerably harder if you don't live at home and/or go to KU for all four years (but possible, especially if you start working in high school and your parents are able to contribute some nominal amount).

Throw in the School of Engineering or Business or Education (anything other than CLAS), and you absolutely need loans or major savings to back you up.

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

So only people who can live with their parents in Lawrence or get monetary support from them can do this. Possibly. I disagree with your assessment of "very easily," though I do agree with your suggestion of spending the first two years at JCCC.

yourworstnightmare 2 years, 6 months ago

Agreed. The only hitch is that the state would need to donate all lands and buildings to KU, because there is no way that KU could buy them from the state.

Phoghorn 2 years, 6 months ago

Well shoot, why did I spend so much money on a degree from KU when I could have just taken this route. Thanks you Ms. Spammer.

JackMcKee 2 years, 6 months ago

You haven't seen anything yet. In a few years KU will cost as much as an Ivy League education. KSU too, which is kind of funny, really.

JackMcKee 2 years, 6 months ago

his secret can only be known by those who have seen his real birth certificate He is from the planet Xanthos. They are a socialist world. Free rides for everyone.

parrothead8 2 years, 6 months ago

It's not like it's a state secret. He's talked about his student loans, which he finished paying off in 2004, in public on more than one occasion.

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

Take out massive debt and then write a NYT besteller or two? Sure. Let the masses follow suit.

mdlund0 2 years, 6 months ago

Why is that funny? Regardless of reputations, the actual expenses have always been similar at state schools and at Ivy League schools. The salary of an English professor at Harvard is not greatly different from one at KU (most teaching at both schools is dumped on graduate students, who are cheap, anyways). Nor is that of a dean, provost, president, secretary, or janitor. The only difference is the support from the state. Once we've finished cutting taxes and, consequently, support for just about everything (including higher education), the prices charged will inevitably reflect the cost of doing business. The citizens of Kansas, through their votes, have clearly expressed, time and time again, that they do not value education and that they have no desire to back, financially or otherwise, educational institutions. Nothing here is funny... in fact, it's quite sad.

thinkinganalytically 2 years, 6 months ago

In state tuition at KU is $8,634, tuition at Princeton is $38,650. KU's tuition would have to go up by 40% a year for each of the next five years to catch up to Princeton's tuition, assuming that Princeton did not increase tuition for the next five years. Do you really believe that KU will increase its tuition by 40% a year or do you have no idea how much tuition is at the two schools?

yourworstnightmare 2 years, 6 months ago

It is a shame that the state legislature has failed in its mission to support public education in Kansas.

It is a shame that KU and other universities must raise tuition and place more of the cost on the student.

Most private universities charge $25,000 to $40,000 in tuition per year, which is a market-based indication of the cost of a university education. Even Baker University charges around $25,000 per year in tuition.

http://www.bakeru.edu/baldwin/prospective-students/tuition-fees

Even given the current state support of KU, the tuition at KU does not come close to that charged by private universities, including Baker.

konzahawk 2 years, 6 months ago

For out of state students, Baker is a better deal. They offer much more scholarship money than KU. My nephew, who lives in Colorado, would have been a fourth-generation Jayhawk. To do so would have cost around $36,000 a year. I love KU, but that is just crazy. Baker provided him with roughly $25,000 in scholarship money to bring their tuition down to about $9,000 a year. It was a no-brainer, he is Baker Bound.

yourworstnightmare 2 years, 6 months ago

Good for him. He will get a good liberal arts education at Baker.

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

And that qualifies you for a job at Starbucks.

John Hampton 2 years, 6 months ago

"Under the proposed standards, to be automatically admitted to KU, graduating high school students would have to complete the pre-college curriculum with a GPA of 2.5 or higher, along with one of the following:

• A minimum 3.0 GPA and an ACT score of at least 24 or SAT score of 1090 or

• A minimum 3.25 GPA and an ACT score of 21 or SAT score of 980."

So I'm a bit confused.... students would have to have a 2.5 GPA and.... either a 3.0 + ACT24 or 3.25 and ACT21

What's the point of the 2.5 GPA? Typo or something screwy?

John Hampton 2 years, 6 months ago

I think maybe I answered my own question.... 2.5 GPA for pre-college core classes (Math, Science, English) and 3.0/3.25 over all GPA?

Ok, that's better.

This conversation with myself has been wholly satsifying.

George_Braziller 2 years, 6 months ago

$15.6 million more for an additional 29,000 square feet? Works out to $538 per square foot. Seems grossly inflated to me.

Shardwurm 2 years, 6 months ago

An the Education Industry continues to scam the American people.

The sad thing is that they'll tell you it's about educating our youth, but in truth it's nothing more than a business that couldn't care less whether you graduate or not as long as you pay ridiculous prices for worthless education.

It amazes me that these people are so smart, yet remain oblivious to what's going on around them. Want some ideas?

  1. Charge less for the first 60 hours of education. Compete with Community colleges on price and your enrollment will go up.

  2. Charge less for humanities degrees - everyone knows they're mostly useless. You don't spend $60,000 on a Kia do you? You are a business...admit it. Don't sell something useless for full price. It's unethical.

  3. Reduce your staffing to reasonable levels. Please don't tell me you don't have jobs to cut. I know several people who work at the university who say they do almost nothing and get paid well to do it.

  4. Have a standard curriculum for Freshman. You can take the 9, 12, or 15 hour option and here are the schedules you can choose from. By doing this you can tailor your staffing because you'll know exactly what you need for all incoming freshman and can reduce the cost of starting school for kids who want to try it.

  5. Fire your professors. My children at KU are Juniors and - this is not an exaggeration - 90 percent of the classes they've had so far have been taught by grad students or people without a degree. (Yes...call KU and ask them. They have people with high school degrees teaching math classes, including College Algebra, and they're charging full tuition for them.) By letting go your expensive professors who don't actually, you know, instruct anyone you can charge less for tuition because you'll just continue to use under-qualified personnel to teach.

  6. Stop trying to convince everyone you're an elite school when all you're doing is loading mountains of debt on children and their parents. I don't see how you can look at yourself in the mirror every morning and realize that there is an entire generation of people taking money out of their retirement so they can purchase your shoddy product, partially because the Education Industry has brain-washed them into thinking it's necessary. You realize that most of your students would be better off becoming technicians and skilled trade rather than getting a degree, right?

yourworstnightmare 2 years, 6 months ago

"My children at KU are Juniors..."

If you truly believe what you just wrote, why on earth are your children at KU? Are you a sadist and masochist?

blindrabbit 2 years, 6 months ago

And the University expects these "higher quality" graduates to find employment and "stay in Kansas". With the State BOE still fiddling with the evolution question and State's swing to the "fundamentalist right", how many of these graduates will want to be subjected to the continuous ridicule of "You Live In Kansas, Really?". Nor will these graduates want raise a family and subject their children's schooling to the backward thinking whims of the BOE.

oldbaldguy 2 years, 6 months ago

in a galaxy far away circa1970-74, i attended a state college and paid approximately $200 a semester for tutition. room and board was approximately $900 a year. i had one $750 loan i paid back after graduating.

my daughter went to an out of state private college. i paid approximately $3000 a year out of pocket. the difference was made up through scholarships for merit and a small student loan my daughter paid off. this was 1997-2001.

what the heck has happened to college costs?

Bob_Keeshan 2 years, 6 months ago

Erosion of the tax base through cuts and credits which reduce the percentage of income paid in taxes by those earning the most, leading to flat or reduced annual budgets.

The annual state budget stays flat, but costs continue to increase. As such, the portion of the costs covered by the state is dramatically reduced (from over half to less than 1/4) while tuition is increased.

As the burden of taxation continues to be shifted to lower incomes, budgets will remain flat or reduced. Unfortunately, costs continue to increase annually.

Phoghorn 2 years, 6 months ago

Government handing out lots of money. Of course, when Universities realized that students had more money, they simply raised tuition because they could.

Let's follow George the Dollar Bill:

American worker gives George to the IRS/Government Government gives George to incoming college student University raises tuition, taking George from said student University give George to professor as part of a pay raise Professor give George to the IRS/Government...

thinkinganalytically 2 years, 6 months ago

A couple of comments about your points.

1 and 2: if KU is a business, it should set it's tuition to maximize revenue, so if you are correct about that point, KU should not necessarily take your advice about the first two points. I might even argue that KU charges too little for tuition, the evidence being that students seem to be in no hurry to graduate. Doubling the cost would focus their attention on getting through.

  1. If KU had standard first year students, KU might be able to offer standard first year programs. Some incoming undergraduates are superbly prepared, bringing in over a years worth of college credit when they enroll on campus. Other first year students should not have been admitted at all, and likely should have not graduated from high school. You can not put both groups in the same classes.

  2. College Algebra is really a high school class, so it makes sense to have high school teachers teaching the class. The large enrollment classes in math at KU, Math 002, Math 101, Math 103, Math 104, Math 105, Math 106, Math 109, Math 110 are all really high school classes, and even the calculus classes, Math 115, Math 116, and Math 121 can all be taken as AP classes in high school. Have the math faculty teach courses that their years of training have uniquely equipped them to teach.

  3. In 2010 the median level of debt for a KU graduate was 0, that is over half of KU graduates (52%) graduated from the university debt free. As for being an elite school, well, KU's admission standards are no where near that level, even if the regents approve the proposed higher admission standards. What KU offers for students is the opportunity for an excellent education if the student is aggressive and motivated. Most KU students are neither.

yourworstnightmare 2 years, 6 months ago

Wait a minute. 52% of KU students graduate with no debt?

Well, that doesn't fit the narrative so it must not be true and must certainly be ignored.

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

It looks like there's also a much lower percentage of students who get Pell grants. Emporia had a much higher percentage of Pell recipients and a whopping 72% debt rate, yet their tuition is much lower. My guess is that lower income students or those paying for it entirely themselves are just less likely to attend KU. We've already cut them off.

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