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Archive for Tuesday, June 19, 2012

Brownback gets heat for ‘real live experiment’ comment on tax cuts

June 19, 2012

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— Gov. Sam Brownback on Tuesday described his tax cuts as a “real live experiment,” which drew the disapproval of a group of fellow Republicans.

Appearing on Morning Joe on MSNBC in New York, Brownback was interviewed about the recent tax cuts he signed into law that will reduce individual rates and eliminate income taxes for the owners of 191,000 businesses.

“On taxes, you need to get your overall rates down, and you need to get your social manipulation out of it, in my estimation, to create growth. We’ll see how it works. We’ll have a real live experiment,” Brownback said.

Traditional Republicans for Common Sense have been opposed to the tax cuts, saying they will rob needed funds for schools, social services and public safety.

“I applaud the governor for finally being truthful with Kansans about the ‘experimental’ nature of his tax plan,” said Rochelle Chronister, a spokeswoman for the group that includes 55 former legislators, all Republicans.

“Unfortunately, this ‘experiment’ will bankrupt our state and create a $2.7 billion deficit within five years,” said Chronister, who is a former assistant majority leader in the House and former state chairwoman of the Kansas Republican Party.

Brownback has said the tax cuts will create jobs and boost the state economy.

On MSNBC, Brownback said Kansas’ tax cuts will make the state more competitive regionally. “You’ll get a chance to see how this impacts a particular experimental area, and I think Kansas is going to do well,” he said.

Comments

autie 2 years, 6 months ago

With all due respect for a fine former legislator, there will be no deficit Rochelle. State law prohibits a budget in the red. We will just do without that much money in that time frame through cuts. I can't remember the last time a so called "leader" conducted experiments on the general populace. I think I read about it in a book by Bill Shirer.

verity 2 years, 6 months ago

Godwin, Godwin!

:<) Just wanted a chance to say that and show that I was clever enough to catch on.

JayhawkFan1985 2 years, 6 months ago

All of us should follow brownbacks lead...when it's time to remodel your house, have your spouse quit their job. That will undoubtedly result in a pay raise for you making it easier to afford the home improvements.

Mike1949 2 years, 6 months ago

Jayhawk, we actually agree on something, LOL

JackMcKee 2 years, 6 months ago

no, it will attract additional women with jobs to move in with you.

tomatogrower 2 years, 6 months ago

Aren't there strict regulations about experimenting on humans?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

What do you think the "experiment" of giving the extremely wealthy (who are already sitting on $trillions in cash) even more money to sit on will be?

WilburNether 2 years, 6 months ago

Oh, how the little piggies who feed on other people's money at the public trough are squealing at the prospect of getting less! Squeal, little piggies, squeal!

Alyosha 2 years, 6 months ago

You're referring to all the tax money that goes to oil companies, right?

dwendel 2 years, 6 months ago

Wilbur just wants it all for himself so he can sit around eating cheeseburgers and stare at the big tv screen.

tomatogrower 2 years, 6 months ago

Yes, commonsense anyone, the cities and counties will have to increase taxes to make up Brownback's "experiment". He is betting that people will praise him for cutting taxes, even though other taxes had to be raised. He will look like a hero, and the state will suffer, except in those communities who care. Doubt if Wichita and points west will be one of those communities.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

Next, he'll want to point a loaded shotgun at the head of some poor schmuck and pull the trigger-- just as an "experiment."

JackMcKee 2 years, 6 months ago

I think we already knew this was an experiment. The arguments and data the supporters of this law use really aren't very good. If (when) this fails, the hand ringing will be epic. These people never go away, they just come back with another dumb idea to replace their old dumb idea.

Unfortunately this will turn out a lot like the experiment where you drive your car into an oncoming train to see how well your airbags function.

coloradoan 2 years, 6 months ago

And, of course, it will be claimed to be Obama's fault.

jd1929 2 years, 6 months ago

The next idea will be tax cuts. Eleven years ago when the US had a budget surplus, we needed tax cuts. Then when the economy struggled we needed more tax cuts. The only real solution to our current recession is tax cuts (at least tax cuts for the "right" people). The cure for our medical system's problems is, of course, tax cuts or tax credits or vouchers or something else that reduces what one pays to the government. Tax cuts are magic and can cure all problems.

optimist 2 years, 6 months ago

The fact is that this country never realized a budget surplus. The reason the CBO calculated a surplus was because it was basing its calculations on economic activity at the time taxes increased. It did not take into account that economic activity slowed by increased taxation would result in lower revenues. These guys never consider the unintended consequences of tax increases. A case in point is the luxury taxed levied on boats costing more than $100,000. A Democrat congress passed and a Republican president signed into law a tax bill that increased many taxes, one of which was a 10% tax on these boats. By 1991 luxury boat sales fell by 70%, overall boat sales fell by nearly 20%, at least 1/3 (or 200,000) of the middle class craftsman who built these boats lost their jobs, many companies went bankrupt after decades or even more than a century in business and tax revenues from the sale of boats actually declined, not increased as the political idiots expected. These losses continued into 1992 until mid-year when the tax was repealed retroactive to January 1 of that year. Sales almost immediately increased but it took far longer for the industry to recover than it did to nearly die. The same can be said for the so called surplus. It didn't account for the fact that the tax increases in the late 90's resulted in a mini recession nor did it consider the effect that this recession would have on the tech industry and the bursting of the now referred to tech bubble. The surplus was real only on paper. It was theoretical and never came to fruition because it never took into account economic behavior and how people use their disposable income. I think this is why Democrats want to take disposable income away from those that have it. When people have only enough to buy their necessities there is far less fluctuation in their spending and consequently it's a lot easier to manipulate our behavior through the tax code.

akuna 2 years, 6 months ago

I'm pretty sure we've already seen the outcome of this experiment. It was called the Bush years. It cost the American tax payer trillions of dollars and the only people that are better off are the rich.

verity 2 years, 6 months ago

Brownback got on national TV over this---

He got exactly what he wanted.

Patricia Davis 2 years, 6 months ago

On national TV and looking really, really stupid. Will be nice to have this on tape when the shift truly hits the fan.

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

This summarizes why I am not being rash to start looking for a job out of state.

jjinks 2 years, 6 months ago

And the Liberals explode!HaHaHaHa

Funny how others in politics say things and you never respond to them.

And OL' JackMcKee, if you notice, responds to everything on here. He really needs to get a life. I have an idea, start your own business, that will keep a lot of you busy. I'm sure there is some goverment agency that will help you. You'll need it.

JackMcKee 2 years, 6 months ago

I have a business. Every penny of my income comes from pass through entities. I've already stated I'm going to do pretty good under this plan, at least until the state can't afford to fix the roads. Buying a new car every couple of years is going to get expensive.

DeckDoctors 2 years, 6 months ago

And the chorus of local Libs all pop out of their holes and in unison scream- the sky is falling! the sky is falling! The daily hit job by Rothschild is like the bell for Pavlov's dogs... hehe I get a kick out of these panty binders.

mycatsrightorwrong 2 years, 6 months ago

"hit job".?. "panty binders".?. you Tea Party ppl are some weird dudes. I had another call me a "cretin" the other day. And please stop claiming to be Republicans; Eisenhower, Dole, & Reagan were Republicans. Just because Libertarians join our party doesn't make us "not Republicans".

Lastly, would you please take this empathy test & post your score (http://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/EmpathyQuotient/EmpathyQuotient.aspx). I've got a theory I'm testing about you guys.

DeckDoctors 2 years, 6 months ago

There you go again wrong cat, getting your panties in a bind! You know nothing about Ronald Reagan or you wouldn't portend he would oppose the Tea Party. If you equate having a spine with not having empathy that is your problem. Your momma should have taught you that you don't compromise or negotiate with the devil. You and your ilk, nancy pelosi want to compromise on everything to the point she stated it's time to amend the Constitution...yeah right out of existence. No thanks, I will stand my ground on what is right and let you compromise-rs play with marxism until it bites you in the behind.

mycatsrightorwrong 2 years, 6 months ago

You never disappoint DD... "portend", "ilk", and "comprimise-rs" all in the same post. You are truly a gem.

BTW, I actually do know a little about Reagan. He's the guy who gave amnesty to undocumented aliens, pumped $150 million into social security, and raised taxes 7 out of 8 years he was Prez.

But now i know all of these "facts" mean nothing to you, b/c I've found this site: http://www.yourmorals.org/blog/2011/10/the-tea-party-and-compromise/. I encourage you to read it as well, for, as Plato so wisely said, "know thyself", my strange little friend.

jafs 2 years, 6 months ago

Also, Reagan tripled the national debt during his time in office.

DeckDoctors 2 years, 6 months ago

wrong cat were you 'educated' in a government school? Other than the typo on compromise-rs, yes they are all real words. Your ignorance is showing again. You are wrong about Reagan, he was known as a Tax Cutter and fueled the greatest growth in U.S. history. Get your facts straight before you attempt to sound relevant. I'm neither strange nor your friend.

mycatsrightorwrong 2 years, 6 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

sleepy33 2 years, 6 months ago

Portend is a real word, but you used it incorrectly. It means "to indicate in advance; to foreshadow or presage, as an omen does". I don't think you can indicate in advance what a dead person would think. Better words to use include: speculate, postulate, hypothesize, conjecture.

DeckDoctors 2 years, 6 months ago

First off sleepy get a life, secondly I did use it properly.
Synonyms 1. foretell, forecast, augur, promise, forebode. I wasn't implying what Reagan thought but what 'mycatsrightorwrong' was implying. Geesh go back to sleep, I don't need a Libs help with english thank you.

sleepy33 2 years, 6 months ago

Yes, but again, they all relate to predicting future events. Your use indicated that the other poster was predicting something Reagan might do in the future. You're proving it with your list of synonyms. Forecast means to predict a future occurrence; to calculate in advance. Foretell means to tell of beforehand; predict; prophesy. It doesn't just mean speculating about the unknown, it specifically means speculating about unknown future events. Why go to all the trouble of using such a specific, uncommon word when it doesn't even accurately convey your meaning?

Clearly, I have just as much of a life as you do, since you're still responding.

bad_dog 2 years, 6 months ago

Deck Doctor just can't admit he misspelled "pretend".

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

According to DD and BAA, when the governor goes on national television and makes statements so controversial that even fellow Republicans call him on it, the local reporter on state government is supposed to ignore it. (You guys must model your editorial preferences on Soviet-era Pravda.)

DeckDoctors 2 years, 6 months ago

The only problem with the little band of RINOs lead by Chronister is that they are out of the mainstream of Republicans, more akin to democrats, hence the moniker- rino. The real American Republicans are found in the Tea Party and similar groups. You know the people who are patriots and conservatives supporting the constitution. This is a free lesson to you bozo and lib Rothschild.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

Like I said, "You guys must model your editorial preferences on Soviet-era Pravda."

DeckDoctors 2 years, 6 months ago

Again, I read your meaningless comment the first time and it still makes no sense. It is we The People who wish for truth from the media, not the warmed over spin liberal media feed the ignorant liberals on a daily basis. So no I have not interest in having soviet/liberal/socialist style media the democrats support in covering the lies of Obumble. You made note that 'republicans' objected to the Governors Tax Plan and I was merely reminding you that asking Chronister's RINO's anything about mainstream Republicanism is akin to asking a democrat. It's not news when liberal republicans object to Real Republicans, that fight has been going on for some time. Does Rothschild think most people are ignorant of that fact and he thought he would get some tumult from the masses? Perhaps he doesn't know the difference between Real Republicans and Chronisters merry band of RINOS.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

So, Brownback didn't say those things on national television, and a group of prominent Republicans didn't object to it? My, you certainly have an odd (Pravda-like) definition of truth.

chootspa 2 years, 6 months ago

Notice his fierce denial at cutting education funding. Because he hasn't quite cut it... yet. Oh but those cuts when he first took office weren't his fault. Notice how he floats the possibility he's going to intentionally cut programs that get matching grants to "cut the deficit." Notice his desire for a tax policy that doesn't include "social manipulation," and yet he forbade businesses from offering certain insurance packages and made a new tax code that offers incentives for restructuring yourself as a "business." Uh huh.

And we're going to magically pay for all of this from a tax on oil wells. Just like Texas, I guess.

somedude20 2 years, 6 months ago

The best thing that I can say about Brownback is that death ain't lookin all that bad. Really, with people like him in charge and dumb stupid idiots that vote for people like him, death seems like a much more desirable option. Brownback will be leading many to their deaths with all of the taxes and cuts to services that he has initiated

DeckDoctors 2 years, 6 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

mycatsrightorwrong 2 years, 6 months ago

I just found this... http://www.yourmorals.org/blog/2011/10/the-tea-party-and-compromise/. Everything you need to know about the people who make up the Tea Party

somedude20 2 years, 6 months ago

Tax cut? That is all Browie has done? Your head aint in the sand, it is clear down to China and really, anyone who believes in sky god is NOT allowed to ever call anyone else "silly" I have lived in Detroit, tough town, builds character, having read some of your posts before, you'd last about 3 minutes, cheers!

DeckDoctors 2 years, 6 months ago

Really editor? I repeat something said above and you cut it? Missing some logic I see.

Alex Parker 2 years, 6 months ago

You called another user a skunk. Namecalling is prohibited.

DeckDoctors 2 years, 6 months ago

I see, I suppose I did incorrectly equate him with his avatar. I would never want to be mistake for the current Prez.

somedude20 2 years, 6 months ago

Wow, first, it is a honey badger, second, you are calling President Obama a skunk? That is rather racist and offensive!

optimist 2 years, 6 months ago

I absolutely disagree with the Governor. This is no experiment. We've seen this before. This is a throwback to times before the world became Government centric. I look forward to a time when the Government serves the people again. A time where people keep what they earn and everyone earns what they have. While there are people in genuine need we have become too generous and allowed too many to live off the tax payer. Too many abuse the generosity of the people. It is further abused by a Government bureaucracy that measures itself by growing the number of people in need rather than truly help the people that really need help in the way that they need it. Instead the bureaucracy grows itself by seeking out people to "help" (i.e. Department of Agriculture advertises, encouraging people to apply for food stamps) and by continuously loosening the qualification standards for obtaining said help. If people need help and want help they can find it. This help should require some investment on the part of the seeker. It's reasonable to demand that they prove their need, show true effort to become self sufficient and eventually become self sufficient. If they don't the Government needs to be willing to withdraw the help. In my view Government is not equipped to function this way and for that reason I oppose most forms of Government social program.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

Got any other fantasy worlds you'd like to describe for us?

optimist 2 years, 6 months ago

I bet you miss Menninger's. ;-) You're right?! The country has always had income tax, death tax, sales tax, luxury tax, social security and social security taxes, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, food stamps, head start, obamacare. Charity in general, Churches, Red Cross, YMCA and other charitable organizations didn't exist to help those in need, before of course the Government honed in on that sector. "I'm with the Government and I'm here to help." Bureaucracy is defined as the "excessive multiplication of, and concentration of power in, administrative bureaus or administrators". Having worked in the federal government for a short time, longer than I would have liked, I have seen government employees discuss ways to make themselves relevant. This is one area they are like the private sector. They know that if they aren't looking for opportunities to grow and expand they run the risk of becoming irrelevant. This is exactly what is wrong with Government. Every Government employee tasked with solving a societal problem should be of the mindset that they ought to be out of a job eventually otherwise wouldn't it be reasonable to define their longevity as a symptom of their failure?

optimist 2 years, 6 months ago

I bet you miss Menninger's. ;-) You're right?! The country has always had income tax, death tax, sales tax, luxury tax, social security and social security taxes, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, food stamps, head start, obamacare. Charity in general, Churches, Red Cross, YMCA and other charitable organizations didn't exist to help those in need, before of course the Government honed in on that sector. "I'm with the Government and I'm here to help." Bureaucracy is defined as the "excessive multiplication of, and concentration of power in, administrative bureaus or administrators". Having worked in the federal government for a short time, longer than I would have liked, I have seen government employees discuss ways to make themselves relevant. This is one area they are like the private sector. They know that if they aren't looking for opportunities to grow and expand they run the risk of becoming irrelevant. This is exactly what is wrong with Government. Every Government employee tasked with solving a societal problem should be of the mindset that they ought to be out of a job eventually otherwise wouldn't it be reasonable to define their longevity as a symptom of their failure?

mycatsrightorwrong 2 years, 6 months ago

I think I've got this right ...there's no need for the government to solve society's problems; if the market can't solve it, it doesn't need solved? You're right optimist we didn't always have lots of taxes and social programs, & we also didn't always live past 50 or get to see all of our babies survive. Charities never did a fraction of the good the government does for those least well off, & the fact that you don't care makes you a heartless doosh.

mycatsrightorwrong 2 years, 6 months ago

... b/c life is about work, & f*** those who don't do it hard enough. If we could just go back to before income taxes and social programs, say 1900, when the life expectancy in the US was 48, and 1 in 10 infants died before age 1: oh how I too ache for the good ole days! God knows we barely recovered from those 90% tax rates in the 50's and 60's; unemployment hovered around 6% and we were the most productive country in the world! Joining together as a national or state community to be "generous" or "help" just gives me the willie nillies. Even tho the government has been able to "function this way" for almost 80 years, you're probably right that it wasn't meant to. Let those poor fools w/o marketable skills die in the allies like olden times I say!

If you're wondering why I think like this, read this: http://www.yourmorals.org/blog/2011/10/the-tea-party-and-compromise/

sleepy33 2 years, 6 months ago

It seems like people want to do a lot of finger pointing and blaming about the way things are today, but I agree with you that there are a lot of factors to consider besides social/fiscal policy. - Population growth: US population has increased to nearly 5 times the level it was at in 1934. - Advances in medical technology expanding the average lifespan - While we have still been at war, modern warfare tactics result in a significant reduction in the number of lives lost (from nearly half a million in WW2 to just over 6,000 in the war on terror). - Increased efficiency/automation in industry

yourworstnightmare 2 years, 6 months ago

I agree with Optimist. This is not an experiment. It is a tried and true recipe for ballooning deficits, shrinking the economic power of the middle class, and economic malaise.

Trouble is, the state cannot deficit spend, so the result will be drastic cuts to state programs, the largest of which is education.

To those of you who support this tax shift, could you answer the following questions: 1) What state spending would you cut? 2) By how much? 3) And, how would these cuts relate to the reduction in tax revenue caused by this tax shift?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

They don't need to deal with the details-- their ideology doesn't require such considerations, because it's Gawd's Miraculous Gift to us all.

optimist 2 years, 6 months ago

I would cut everything including education. Given more time I might take a shot at explaining the level of waste there is in government and how much we spend because of the lack of success in achieving a return on our tax investments by bureaucrats. As long as Government places mandates and dictates upon the people there is too much Government. I'll accept that we have cut enough when I no longer have the Government telling me what to do and you liberals using it to steal from people unequally. Until then cut, cut, cut...

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

And you'll hold your breath and stomp your feet till the world is beaten into a form resembling your fantasies.

yourworstnightmare 2 years, 6 months ago

Optimist, I appreciate the honest answer.

You are gravely and embarrassingly deluded, however, and your logic and grasp on reality needs serious work.

But I appreciate the honest answer.

werekoala 2 years, 5 months ago

"As long as Government places mandates and dictates upon the people there is too much Government."

-- So you want a government that has no laws, only optional suggestions? I'm interested as to how you think that would work out:

"could you please, if you don't mind, stop dumping cyanide into our drinking water? No? Well, then we'll be forced to draft a more harshly-worded letter..."

I find it funny that for folks who tend to deride the ineffectual-ism of the UN, you basically want the US government to emulate it...

camper 2 years, 6 months ago

“You’ll get a chance to see how this impacts a particular experimental area, and I think Kansas is going to do well,” Govenor Brownback.

We are experimenting with trickle down economics again. It has not shown recently that it increases tax revenue. It does not stimulate business enough. Same thing with Austerity. We are watching that experiment going on in Europe. This is actually making our budget defecits worse, cuts all the more painful and necessary.

It is demand more than anything that boosts economies. We should be talking about optimal tax rates. They can be higher or lower....but they optomize tax revenue.

werekoala 2 years, 5 months ago

What is the point of an experiment if you're just going to put your fingers in your ears and sing, if it doesn't give you the result you like? It's not an experiment at all, that's a disingenuous excuse to dismantle the state to the benefit of the wealthy

Wanna know how this experiment is going to work out? Look at Ireland.

In the 2000s, it was hailed as one of the friendliest places in the world for businesses, low tax rates, loose regulations, etc. etc. etc. The Republican dream. And as long the world economy was growing at record rates, the structural weaknesses were concealed.

Nowadays, their economy is one of the worst in the developed world, and they are trying more and more austerity, harsher and harsher cuts, fewer and fewer services, and everything they try just pushes them deeper and deeper into the mire.

Because if you want to grow your economy through "creative destruction" of the welfare state, you basically have to keep going until you can compete with China on who has the cheapest workers, fewest regulations, and worst pollution. Anything else is half measures.

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