Archive for Thursday, January 26, 2012

Bill would allow guns on campus

Regents and KU strongly opposed

January 26, 2012

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TOPEKA — Gun rights advocates on Wednesday pushed for passage of a bill that would allow concealed carry of handguns on college campuses and public buildings, such as libraries, city halls and day care centers in city facilities.

Rep. Forrest Knox, R-Altoona, said after a hearing on House Bill 2353 that he thought his measure would be approved by the Legislature this year. It has won approval before in the House but hasn’t gained traction yet in the Senate.

“Currently any building, public or private, can be posted prohibiting concealed carry regardless of the level of security provided within the building,” Knox told the House Federal and State Affairs Committee.

Patricia Stoneking, president of the Kansas State Rifle Association, said, “We need to understand that criminals will not abide by the law of the signs. These signs are disarming only law-abiding permit licensees.”

But the measure was roundly criticized by the Kansas Board of Regents and representatives of cities and counties. The committee will continue hearing testimony on the bill today.

“The safety and security efforts of these universities would be substantially undermined, if not crippled, by the passage of House Bill 2353,” said Andy Tompkins, president and chief executive officer of the regents.

“It is our firm belief that allowing weapons on campus would significantly increase the risk of violence and harm to students, faculty and others rather than making anyone safer,” Tompkins said. The measure is opposed by Kansas University.

Under Knox’s bill, people who are licensed to carry a concealed gun would be allowed to bring a weapon into a state or city facility unless the building had adequate security measures, such as electronic screening equipment and guards, to ensure that no weapons could be brought in.

Knox has said he thought the gunman who killed 32 at Virginia Tech University in 2007 would have been stopped more quickly if someone else had been carrying a concealed weapon.

Knox said the right to possess and carry a firearm is a fundamental right and was a high priority of the Founding Fathers.

He said, “The benefits of a well-armed society included not only personal security, but national security and security from a tyrannical government as well. This was clearly the intention of the Founders. We still see that this applies today. A well-armed society is a polite society.”

But city, county and regents officials said the requirement to have security systems in place at all entrances would be cost prohibitive.

The bill “bullies us into allowing guns in our public buildings whether our elected officials or our citizens want that or not,” said Mike Taylor of the Unified Government of Wyandotte County and Kansas City.

Under another provision, a city would be unable to prohibit concealed carry in the workplace if the employee was licensed and if the building wasn’t adequately secured. City officials said this was an intrusive reach by the state into employer-employee personnel policies.

Comments

TheStonesSuck 3 years, 6 months ago

"A well-armed society is a polite society." Mr. Knox, Somalia would like a word with you.

XEPCT 3 years, 6 months ago

haha, that's bull ... can you even locate Somalia on a map?

TheStonesSuck 3 years, 6 months ago

Check this out. In America, these types of automatic weapons/RPGs are generally unavailable. Or at least, there's a little more formality involved in obtaining one. On a country by country basis, yes, we obviously have more advanced/numerous weapons than Somalia.

http://bit.ly/amb0Jr

local_interest 3 years, 6 months ago

You know jack. SKS-AK47-AK74 are all available in markets there for less than $200. When you are not trained to shoot, volume beats out accuracy.

No go sit down and suck your tea party thumb.

Mike1949 3 years, 6 months ago

kind of hard to conceal a AK47 isn't it?

Ignignokt 3 years, 6 months ago

What's the difference between a citizen who is trained, armed and is furthering their education and someone who is just trained and armed?

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

Like Ignignokt said, there is no difference. These people are already licensed to carry outside the university, and they are not presenting any danger in that setting.

gudpoynt 3 years, 6 months ago

no danger other than carrying a deadly weapon.

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

Of course there are thousands of us who do that outside of a university, and the streets haven't irrupted in gunfire. I'm 10x more afraid of the deadly weapons kids are already allowed to have, cars!

When this bill passes, there will hardly be any change.

gudpoynt 3 years, 6 months ago

agree. There would be only slightly higher incidents of accidental injury/death and assault with deadly weapons.

But only slightly. So few additional incidents in fact, that the minor uptick could accurately be described as "hardly any change".

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

A baseless argument, you show me where CCW causes an increase in accidental injury/death and I'll believe you, but I know you can't show me those facts.

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

My choice of "hardly" was to qualify the handful of students who would be allowed to carry, most students would notice no change whatsoever.

gudpoynt 3 years, 6 months ago

you're right. I can't imagine a case where carrying a loaded weapon might result in accidental injury or death.

Or get stolen or lost.

Or even result in injury or death when that was the shooters intent.

Imagining any one of these scenarios is beyond my limited capacity for abstract thought.

Plus, it's virtually impossible since all CCW licensee's are flawless when it comes to handling their firearm. Not to mention their composure and personal judgement in life threatening situations.

Your point is further supported by the fact that no CCW licensed individual has ever been involved with an accidental injury or death due to the fact that they were carrying a loaded fire arm. Not anywhere. Not ever.

At least CCW licenced victims can kill their perpetrators in legal self defense now. Because if you're going to rob somebody at gun point, you deserve to die. Isn't that right Dillon Barnes? Individuals who engage in armed robbery simply deserve to die, don't they?

Not only that, but say I was carrying, and I saw somebody else getting robbed, I could shoot the robber there too, right? Does it have to be "self" defense, or can I prevent crimes upon others? Right?

However, if one of my adversaries knows that I'm carrying a concealed weapon, and they whack me on the back of the head when I'm not looking, steal my gun, and use it to commit a crime, I'm not at fault there, am I? Right?

Well, there might be a little bit of legal gray area when it comes to crimes, injuries, and/or deaths that result directly presence of loaded gun. Not that any of that has happened yet, as I point out above. But if it ever did, the judges might have to set a few new precedents.

But the important thing is that we have more loaded weapons being carried by civilians in more public places. That's surely carries with it an overall benefit for the public at large, right?

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

You've obviously already made up your mind about this issue without an understanding of firearms or an understanding about those who carry concealed.

If you ever want to have an open minded, rational and civil discussion of the issue, feel free to message me.

50YearResident 3 years, 6 months ago

Don't forget, only those students over the age of 21 will have a concealed carry permit. Very few of the students will quilify to carry a handgun, even if this bill passes. It will mostly affect grad students and teachers.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

Does anyone really believe no one is packin' on campus now?

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

"An armed society is a polite society" is a quote from Robert A. Heinlein's book "Beyond This Horizon" (1948), a scifi thriller about genetic engineering. This was one of the first scifi books I read as a child and the qoute was one of the lasting memories of having read it.

Jock Navels 3 years, 6 months ago

and the corollary; An unarmed population is an enslaved population." Mao.

Robert Rauktis 3 years, 6 months ago

Patricia Stoneking, president of the Kansas State Rifle Association, said, “We need to understand that criminals will not abide by the law of the signs. These signs are disarming only law-abiding permit licensees.”

Ms. Stoneking must understand that these are college students. They step in front of oncoming traffic talking on their cell phones. Their judgment is far worse than the ordinary criminal.

Ms. Stoneking needs a scholarship to Virginia Tech.

KevinBacon 3 years, 6 months ago

These are adults we're talking about. "Extra" adults, even, to be allowed to drink or carry a concealed weapon. On what grounds are you going to deny them their rights?

Sally Piller 3 years, 6 months ago

Good question. They seem to go hand in hand. Why is that?

Liberty275 3 years, 6 months ago

Because that's what you want to see.

I am a virtual antichrist and I don't see a problem with trained and screened persons possessing a concealed handgun as a means of protecting themselves from unhinged murderers should they find themselves confronted by the likes of the VT killer.

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

As an atheist licensed CCH, I don't understand your point.

Liberty275 3 years, 6 months ago

Yoda would have said: "irresponsible and reckless, this bill is". ;-]

gl0ck0wn3r 3 years, 6 months ago

True, but Merrill loves the word reckless about as much as Yoda.

appleaday 3 years, 6 months ago

Arizona is a well armed society. The person who took the gun away from Jared Loughner was a 60 something unarmed woman.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

And if that unarmed woman had been carrying her own weapon she just might have ended it before he had emptied his own gun, possibly saving lives and injuries. It is surprisingly easy to take an empty weapon from someone who is not expecting a fight.

orbiter 3 years, 6 months ago

Actually, if you know anything about the case, she still would have been shot in the head.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

She? She? Really? My guess you are referring to US Representative Gabrielle Giffords. By last count there were six murder victims and thirteen wounded by Loughner. Are you inferring Ms. Giffords injuries are somehow more worthy of our attention than any of the others?

Phillbert 3 years, 6 months ago

A man with a concealed weapon did come upon the scene in Tuscon. He later told FoxNews that he just about shot one of the bystanders who had wrestled the gun away from Loughner, because he thought that man was the shooter.

Do you trust a college kid to have the same judgement?

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

Simple answer. Yes. I do not underestimate the intelligence and the judgement of the majority of our youth.

Jeremiah Jefferson 3 years, 6 months ago

It would have ben the gun fight at OK coral all over again if that had happened lmfao

Kyle Chandler 3 years, 6 months ago

Obama's OWS crew? Oh man, i hope you have a blog cuz i want to read it. Will we be taken on a spaceship to a magical comet when we're done?

question4u 3 years, 6 months ago

"An armed society is a polite society." Why? Carrying guns gives everyone sweet dispositions? Or is an armed society a society of fear? Does anyone really believe that the Japanese have a society less polite than that of the United States? Are the British ruder to one another because they don't carry guns? Will students be politer if they think that their professor has a sawed off shotgun under the podium?

"We need to understand that criminals will not abide by the law of the signs." We also need to understand that the majority of murders are not committed by people who are already criminals. Teenagers, guns, and alcohol are not a good combination. The potential for accidental deaths and impulse killings increases with the increased presence of guns. To deny that would be stupid.

If the law is changed, it should be changed based on careful study of all of the potential benefits and liabilities. Instead, we get Knox and his hot air. Platitudes are as useless in the concealed weapons debate as they are in the debate over abortion. There are real points that can be made for both sides of this issue, but we're not not likely to hear a reasoned argument made by anyone in the Kansas House.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

I have a careful study for you. CCW holders are 5.7% to 14% less likely to commit a crime and 5 times less likely to commit a violent crime than the average citizen, depending on which state and how the study was conducted. There is some indication that CCW holders may even be less prone to violence than the average police officer. A "careful study of all of the potential benefits and liabilities" is fine until the bias of those doing the study are entered into the mix. Where is all the blood in the streets predicted when CCW laws were first proposed? Arguing against legal concealed carry based on shootings committed by those who would already be operating illegally is quite honestly the best way to shoot holes in an argument.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 6 months ago

Well, golly, look at all the wild west shootouts between people holding concealed carry permits in Kansas. Oh, wait, that didn't actually happen.

somedude20 3 years, 6 months ago

that is because they were busy committing voter fraud

rockchalker52 3 years, 6 months ago

Dumbest idea of the year, but it's early yet.

mom_of_three 3 years, 6 months ago

I always laugh when anyone brings up the founding fathers and what they meant by the right to bear arms. The founding fathers were dealing with armed british outside their door, and had to shoot for their food, and to protect their livestock and well being. The revolutionary citizens were forced to house the British soldiers, feed and house them. Then again, there was the Whiskey Rebellion and Bacon's Rebellion, where they killed those "pesky" Indians who insisted the land was theirs.

mom_of_three 3 years, 6 months ago

I dont think our current government is overbearing in the same sense as the 18th century founders and the british government. Totally different situations. You can't compare apples and oranges.
And yes, our citizenry posed such a threat that the British tried it again in 1812. Thank goodness for those Kentuckians who defended New Orleans. But they were crack shots because they were hunters and outdoorsmen. And not because the federal government was a threat.

Scott Morgan 3 years, 6 months ago

momof3, A hundred years after the last native American skirmish there are still many areas of this nation our citizens laugh at the idea of 911 emergency service.

Through our history the most feared and indeed cause the need to be armed are still most likely lazy, druken sots who prey on innocent people.

danmoore 3 years, 6 months ago

Are you serious? I would be more afraid of getting trampled by fleeing gun owners than the gunman. Gun owners are too afraid to face the world with their bare hands and wits. That’s why they own guns.

Kyle Chandler 3 years, 6 months ago

totally man, my words stop bullets all the time

geekin_topekan 3 years, 6 months ago

"If Virginia Tech allowed teachers to carry a concealed gun, many lives would have been saved." ++++ Speculation and fantasy Rambos do not good-sense make.

Jeremiah Jefferson 3 years, 6 months ago

While I love my guns and it will take a gun fight to take them away from me. There is no reason guns should be allowed on campus. If your going to allow them onto a college campus you may as well allow them onto a high school campus. Some of the high school campuses are more dangerous than a college campus

spongebob 3 years, 6 months ago

It's my understanding that they would be allowed in high schools under this law, unless the high school was equipped with metal detectors. Obviously kids would not be allowed to carry - they aren't eligible for CCW permits.

In regards to your view that there is no reason they should be allowed on campus, what about the KU Medical Center campus? The students there have to park many, many blocks away and walk through some rather undesirable parts of town to get to campus. Every semester there are emails about armed car jackings or armed burglaries, I'd feel safer knowing that I could be walking near somebody who was carrying legally.

And, no. I don't own a gun, nor have I ever owned a gun.

gatekeeper 3 years, 6 months ago

I had some courses there and never had an issue. Also spent many months with my sister up there getting cancer treatments, sometimes leaving her room in the wee hours of the morning. Never felt threatened. Have many friends that live in the area too. You may think it's slumville, but that doesn't mean it's extremely dangerous.

My mom lives in OP and there was recently a car jacking, a shooting and a murder near her house. Is OP a dangerous slum too?

Scott Morgan 3 years, 6 months ago

catfish, Guns were common when I attended in the 70s. In fact did some of the best hunting of my life in another part of the country during school.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

And once again I ask, "Who among you believe there are no guns on campus?"

Loki 3 years, 6 months ago

I would be a lot more supportive of C&C laws if the training included some type of real life scenerio to judge how someone would truly react. The majority would fail causing others to b injured or killed or themselves to be injured or killed.

took_the_money_and_ran 3 years, 6 months ago

Do I need a concealed firearm to be safe on the KU campus? Or would my money be better spent on a personal lightning rod? From what I remember, the number of KU students struck by lightning in the last 30 years is greater than the number who have been shot.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

Can you keep it concealed? I would be very uncomfortable knowing the person walking past me in a thunderstorm was wearing a metal pole on his person. ;-)

mom_of_three 3 years, 6 months ago

Do they allow guns in the Kansas house and Senate? Let's start with them and if it works there, then we will see about campuses.

madcow 3 years, 6 months ago

I believe the thinking is that citizens should be allowed to carry arms at any place that is not secure.

The House and Senate have security, and are "secure" areas, so they can ban the carrying of firearms.

The KU campus however does not have metal detectors or security guards in every building, so they are not secure areas.

Personally I could go either way on the issue. All it would really do is allow the CC crowd the option of carrying anywhere they want. So what if it is on campus, if they want to sit in one of those tiny seats with a gun holster crammed into their side for an hour or two let them (and this is from someone who will be going back to KU in the not too distant future).

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

I always pick my bowling pins up and take them home. Throw 'em in the burn barrel, the black smoke keeps the skeeters away . . .

kernal 3 years, 6 months ago

I don't want a gun and don't want one in my home, but if this "Wild West" law passes, the KS legislature isn't giving me much choice. Unless,the nation outlaws unregulated gun shows, no guns purchased online and requires licensing with a ten day waiting period during which a background check can be done, this is a recipe for disaster.

Ever stop to think that what happened in Tucson might have been averted if AZ hadn't loosened up it's gun regulations?

beezee 3 years, 6 months ago

Whatever you're smoking, stop. Your stash is contaminated.

KevinBacon 3 years, 6 months ago

It doesn't take ten days to do a background check and, as a matter of fact, you DO need a background check to buy a gun (any gun, not just handguns). You can't purchase a gun directly from an online source. You need to have it shipped to a certified dealer, who then does a background check.

"Ever stop to think that what happened in Tucson might have been averted if AZ hadn't loosened up it's gun regulations?"

That's so backwards! Criminals break laws, or they wouldn't be criminals. Laws do not hinder them, only law-abiding citizens.

KevinBacon 3 years, 6 months ago

Oh, and should anything questionable come up on your background check there already is a five day waiting period that will go into effect.

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

I rarely get to see the 'Wild West' argument actually come up. That argument has been used for a long time, but it has yet to materialize in the world of CCW.

Not to repeat what the great Kevin Bacon has said (thanks for stopping by, Kevin), but it's quite obvious you are unfamiliar with current gun laws, yet you still feel they are ineffective. Please understand the laws before you go "up in arms" over them.

JohnD1975 3 years, 6 months ago

I don't believe most of the people commenting are aware of the procedure to obtain a concealed carry license. If this law passes, only students over 21 are even eligible for the license. That knocks out over half of KU probably. To obtain a license, you must go through training, (which I've done) and you must prove that you can shoot accurately, you are given hours of training on safety, when it is appropriate to use your firearm to defend yourself or others and when it is not acceptable. After the hours of training are complete, you must take a test and receive a 100% to pass.. Even after this is complete, you must submit your certification to your local law enforcement agency and they will run extensive background checks on the person. If you have something on your record, you aren't getting a license. This procedure can take a few months to complete. I believe most people think after this passes that all of the KU population will be packing heat to class everyday and this is not true. My guess is about 1-2% of KU's students are licensed to conceal carry. So if there is another situation such as Virginia Tech, you won't have a room full of students pulling out guns to take him out, but hopefully 1 trained individual to take him out before he does more damage. All the license does is allow the good guy to protect himself and others, because the bad guys don't get licenses before they go shooting people.

Loki 3 years, 6 months ago

Because someone who can pass a written test and shoot at a non moving target in a controlled environment should be deemed qualified to carry a gun and act in an emergency situation....

gatekeeper 3 years, 6 months ago

Exactly. Most people in a crisis don't act like they imagine they would. As you're sitting here reading this article and thinking what you would do if you were armed and someone started shooting around you, that is not how you would act in the real situation. Why do you think Special Forces spend a part of each day practicing different scenarios they can come across? The brain has to be trained how to act in crisis and continued training is what makes it stick.

So many gun toters on here need to take something more than psych 101 and learn how the brain works.

Crazy_Larry 3 years, 6 months ago

Yep, just like police officers have to do..

KansasKansan 3 years, 5 months ago

I'd be willing to bet officers train as much or less than some ccw holders, and vice versa.

http://www.kscpost.org/administrativerules.htm

beatrice 3 years, 6 months ago

I don't have an issue with C&C. People are trained and they have permits. I'm all for that kind of gun ownership.

My only questions are about where guns can be carried: If signed into law by the Governor, will any of us be allowed to enter the Capitol Building and meet with the Governor or any of the lawmakers who support the bill while carrying, or will we be stopped at the entrance and not allowed if? If not, why are they supporting a law that wouldn't apply to their work place, but they want to make sure it happens in places where others work?

Bruce Bertsch 3 years, 6 months ago

Va Tech is a good example of why loose state laws don't work. Ask a NYC cop where the guns on the streets come from. the answer will be Virginia and Florida. Intersting factoid for the let 'em conceal and carry crowd, NYC has the toughest gun laws in the US and a shrinking murder and crime rate. If you really think that a criminal takes the time to think, "I better not do this because that person may be packing" you are delusional.

beezee 3 years, 6 months ago

I knew enough NYC cops before moving here. They'd be the last to ACCURATELY know. And the issue isn't really about deterrence. Criminals aren't generally going to have their Mensa card or have high SAT scores. The issue is about defensive response.

KevinBacon 3 years, 6 months ago

"If you really think that a criminal takes the time to think, "I better not do this because that person may be packing" you are delusional."

Neither "I might get caught" or "I might get shot" are the type thing you "take the time to think", but one is certainly a stronger deterrent. Why do you assume all criminals are brainless trolls? A considerable amount actually get away with their crimes.

If you're about to rob a store and you know the cashier or any given customer could be armed, you're going to have a hell of a time forgetting that leading up to the big moment.

beatrice 3 years, 6 months ago

"If you really think that a criminal takes the time to think, 'I better not do this because that person may be packing' you are delusional."

Likewise, a law abiding citizen who has been trained and has a permit will also not suddenly think, "Hey, I am carrying. I think I will commit a crime."

beatrice 3 years, 6 months ago

I know. I so play both sides of this argument.

blogme 3 years, 6 months ago

The simple fact is no matter what law is on the books, it's been violated. The righteous thing about Concealed Carry is that it gives the rest of us law abiding people the ability to protect ourselves from those that AREN'T law abiding citizens.

beatrice 3 years, 6 months ago

I wouldn't be surprised if this brings about grade inflation. Some professors won't want to take the chance of giving pistol-packin' Bobby a C.

Straight As from here on.

Laura Wilson 3 years, 6 months ago

There is something no one seems to be mentioning. Just because you have a gun, have a license to carry it, can then carry it onto campus, does that equate with being willing and able to shoot someone? So many commenters are all "mass shootings would be prevented/stopped early if everyone could have a gun" but that doesn't mean anything if someone isn't going to step up and KILL someone.

I'm not willing to shoot or kill someone. I'm not physically or emotionally capable of doing that. If you are--and you're not police or military or FBI or someone trained to kill in order to protect the general poplulace--I don't want to know you.

beezee 3 years, 6 months ago

The ability to respond defensively lowers the unpredictability. Again, a lot of what I am reading plainly is from people who are utterly clueless about the program and the licensees. Or (given that this is, after all, Lawrence) about life.

beezee 3 years, 6 months ago

Then YOU should not seek said license. This issue is extensively considered in classes, and I'd say that so far I've had ca 30% decide "Hmmmm... No-- I don't think I could" or "No-- given the legal responsibilities of even SHOWING the gun in a conflict, I don't think this is for me."

Personally, I'd have no trouble defending MY life, lives of family members, or for that matter YOUR life in the THANKFULLY unlikely event it became necessary.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

I have no urge or desire to harm anyone, yet I have a bit of a reputation for being calm and doing the "right thing" in high stress situations. I have been told by several people they would want me in their corner if bad things were happening. I've been shot at (missed), had a straight razor held on me and been beat up severely (once). If you ever need assistance, just let me know. I'll be glad to not know you either.

Liberty275 3 years, 6 months ago

If you had a pistol under your jacket and were about to be raped by that "good samaritan" that stopped to help when your car died on K10, what would you do?

beezee 3 years, 6 months ago

The post by JohnD1975 sums it up nicely. I'm an instructor in the program and thus far have had NO student go through a class (though I have over the years had SEVERAL faculty and staff). Thus far, the "boo-hoo the sky is falling" crap I'm reading is the same crap served up when the original bill passed some years ago. So, thus far NO street shootouts between licensees; NO drive-bys by licensees; NO stupidity by licensees.

And Stoneking's comment about criminals not caring about what's posted on some door is 100% correct. To a homicidally inclined person, ALL that the sign conveys is "free-fire, victim-rich zone within." The issue is (for the obligately short-sighted hoplophobes) best stated as: Since I have passed the background check and gotten said license, WHY should I leave the gun in my car while going into a building?

And by the way, as the gun is to be CONCEALED, who'd know? So those concerned about wetting their pants at the sight of a gun, relax.

As for why a gun MIGHT be needed in [any] school, there are more than a few examples. One such is at http://www.davekopel.com/2a/othwr/principal&gun.htm

chootspa 3 years, 6 months ago

There are more than a few examples of shooting situations being diffused by people without guns, too. It's all speculation. Let KU determine what KU wants to do on its own campus, and don't require them to go crazy with metal detectors and all sorts of other stupidity.

Frankly, I'd be a lot better about this plan if they weren't trying at the same time to loosen CC regulations in other ways. I have no issue with skilled people proving they're skilled with both a written test and target shooting demonstration. We don't need an UNregulated militia of legally blind carriers.

KansasKansan 3 years, 5 months ago

"We don't need an UNregulated militia of legally blind carriers."

CCW is regulated, and the legally blind have trouble passing the shooting test.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

In reference to guns in high schools. Very few 21 year old are still in high school. I assume the allowance for high schools would include teachers, administrators, cooks, bus drivers and maintenance personnel.

beezee 3 years, 6 months ago

Yep. And also parents visiting said school (K-12).

BigDog 3 years, 6 months ago

beatrice .... Your answer was in the article

Under Knox’s bill, people who are licensed to carry a concealed gun would be allowed to bring a weapon into a state or city facility unless the building had adequate security measures, such as electronic screening equipment and guards, to ensure that no weapons could be brought in.

Tha Capitol Buidling would not be a place a person would be allowed to carry because they have Capitol Police as well as electronic screening equipment.

beatrice 3 years, 6 months ago

I see. So they believe their building has "adequate security measures" in place.

In other words, the answer is "Hell NO!." People who are carrying won't be able to go and meet with the governor or with legislators who support the bill. That is exactly as I suspected.

1029 3 years, 6 months ago

People should be allowed to carry guns wherever they want, but they should have to carry them in an exposed holster so that everyone else gets to see who the scared people are.

The only problem with this is that you may get people making fun of the scaredy cats, which could be dangerous since the scaredy cats are armed and are probably not all there mentally (evidenced by the fact that they feel so threatened in a classroom that they need to carry a gun with them).

Furthermore, this could create all kinds of new products, industries, and jobs. Girls might want some fancy holster that matches their shoes, there could maybe be different kinds of KU holsters, etc. I think this "exposed holster" idea deserves more consideration.

KevinBacon 3 years, 6 months ago

The reason concealed carry reduces crime is not because anyone with a gun can take out a threat. It's effective because the criminals don't know who MIGHT have a gun, and therefore less likely to commit a crime in the first place.

1029 3 years, 6 months ago

People should be allowed to carry guns wherever they want, but they should have to carry them in an exposed holster so that everyone else gets to see who the scared people are.

The only problem with this is that you may get people making fun of the scaredy cats, which could be dangerous since the scaredy cats are armed and are probably not all there mentally (evidenced by the fact that they feel so threatened in a classroom that they need to carry a gun with them).

Furthermore, this could create all kinds of new products, industries, and jobs. Girls might want some fancy holster that matches their shoes, there could maybe be different kinds of KU holsters, etc. I think this "exposed holster" idea deserves more consideration.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 6 months ago

Liberals would be having bladder malfunctions all over the street if CHL holders were practicing open carry. Do you own stock in Depends?

chzypoof1 3 years, 6 months ago

I won't even begin to try and shoot all of you scared people down. (pun intended). Defending yourself with a firearm is a constitutionally protected right. It shouldn't stop at the school grounds.

pace 3 years, 6 months ago

I think it is time to lower the permit to carry age to 6. Children have civil rights.

beatrice 3 years, 6 months ago

I can't believe you would discriminate against 5 year olds!

pace 3 years, 6 months ago

I am sorry, I realize that is just how I was raised, I am not prejudiced, it is how I really feel.

labmonkey 3 years, 6 months ago

That is a pretty gun in the picture... looks a lot like my Ruger GP100. They have it on an 8x11 sheet of paper which means that it has at least a 4" barrel. Nobody in their right mind would carry that thing, but I guess they needed a picture of a scary gun to make a point. Personally, I would carry my S&W bodyguard .380.

peartree 3 years, 6 months ago

Yelling at this guy from a town with less that 500 people about what an idiot he is will get you nowhere. Come up with some arguments to convince the Republicans if you want to defeat bills like this. Regardless of your views on gun rights, this is a bad idea financially. Municipalities will scramble to pay for "securing" their buildings, and all Kansas higher eds will suddenly be less attractive to the parents of college students.

Betty Bartholomew 3 years, 6 months ago

Who in god's name is taking a gun into a daycare center? Jesus Christ - you're not gonna be attacked by a gun-wielding 2 year old!

yourworstnightmare 3 years, 6 months ago

Warning! Warning!

Wedge issue.

Gets the gun nuts frothing and the do-gooders wringing their hands.

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

I'm glad to see this bill back up, this is a positive step towards personal safety and 2nd amendment rights.

If anyone wants to have a serious discussion about the bill, feel free to message me.

Liberty275 3 years, 6 months ago

"This is my rifle. This is my gun. This one's for fighting, this one's for fun"

That's how we learned it.

voevoda 3 years, 6 months ago

The Constitution does not call for a "well-armed society." It calls for a "well-regulated militia." I'm all in favor of KU having a well-regulated militia. As for any random student who can pass a minimal test carrying a concealed weapon around campus, that seems to be a recipe for a lot of random shootings, either by accident or at the spur of the moment.

voevoda 3 years, 6 months ago

There's a huge difference between "licensed holders" and a "well-regulated militia," Liberty_One. Incidents (not at KU, but elsewhere) may be a good reason to have a well-regulated militia on campus. But not, Liberty_One, not a bunch of gun enthusiasts who imagine themselves to be "defenders of liberty," who'd be more likely to be the source of trouble than any help.

Kyle Chandler 3 years, 6 months ago

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!

ITS NOT 'EASY' TO GET A LICENSE

DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO READ ON HERE?

kansanbygrace 3 years, 6 months ago

But, with all the firearm violence we've experienced here on campus in the last several years, don't we have to do something to stop it? I mean, just killing the few dozen mass murderers we've had could have saved how many lives? Really, how many?

chzypoof1 3 years, 6 months ago

That's what the kids at Va Tech thought.

yourworstnightmare 3 years, 6 months ago

A government that forces its citizens to arm themselves can also do the opposite.

kansanbygrace 3 years, 6 months ago

I think that maybe these proponents see themselves as John Wayne/Steven Seagall/Patrick Swayze characters in just that situation, pulling out their little .38 or 9mm and picking off the sniper, saving the day, getting the pretty girl, etc.

chzypoof1 3 years, 6 months ago

Kansan, you have no clue what you are talking about, so please move on. You are only here to troll and create anger on the issue. People that carry are responsible citizens that have taken a class, and a shooting test, and want to defend themselves and their family. If you think violence doesn't happen, turn on the news. If you want to leave your family's safety in the hands of a 911 operator, please do. But don't try and take rights away from those that choose to cary.

And I agree with others. It's a right to carry, but not one that everyone chooses. I am not against those people, but it doesn't change my right. Also, please provide evidence of conceal/carry licensees that have committed a crime or just randomly shot others. Standing by for evidence.

Thanks!

Poof

kansanbygrace 3 years, 6 months ago

Well, cheezy, I know exactly what I'm talking about but you knee-jerk right into radical reaction mode.
1.On many occasions, the criminals using guns in a public assault shoot at the people who reach for a weapon first, and they and everyone around them is put at greater danger. 2. In one Wyoming city where I worked for a couple of years, the greatest cause of death among 19-50 year olds was firearms in public disputes. Greater than heart attacks or drunken driving or diabetes or cancer. 3. Almost half of all new infantrymen, after Basic training and AIT in their first tour of duty are not presumed to be competent to decide for themselves whom to shoot or when. That's why they have a corporal and some sergeants and some officers over them whenever they are armed. Your having had a course and a gotten a certificate won't make you any more competent, statistically, than a careful pre-screening for your abilities, 3 months of full-time training and 24-7 supervision. Your opinion may differ. If so, what's your evidence? I haven't seen one case where a concealed-carrier prevented a school shooting.
Trying to bring rational thought into a situation many times more complex than you realize.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

The Virginia Tech shooter, Seung-Hui Cho, was NOT a licensed CCW holder. He was allowed to fall through the cracks so to speak after a life of being bullied, being diagnosed with several mental issues, stalking two others students. He then Killed 33 including himself, and injured 25 others, all the while with no intervention by law enforcement or anyone else.

madcow 3 years, 6 months ago

This law really has nothing to do with what happened at VT.

Really all this law would do is let people with conceal carry licenses carry everywhere. Yes that means on campus too, but if these people can drive on the same roads as students without shooting, you would think they can sit through a class without shooting too.

chzypoof1 3 years, 6 months ago

Yes it does. It means that a student with a concealed gun could have ended that shooting before others were killed. That's the point of this change...it would be to allow students/faculty to defend themselves against this type of violence, just like a legal CC holder can in other public places.

madcow 3 years, 6 months ago

Well yeah, but I mean in respect to the idea that it will cause more school shooting to happen.

You know, that the law has nothing to do with nut jobs bringing guns to class.

Outsidelookingin 3 years, 6 months ago

Not everyone wants to carry and they are not required to carry. If I have been through the licencing process, background checked and trained, I should be able to carry any where I want. Apparently, the US of A thought I was capable of carrying a firearm and making split second decisions, when I was 18 years old or they would not have sent me over there. I certainly don't want to take a life, but if it comes to a decision of him or me. I'll be prepared to make that decision.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

Chances are any student, professor or employee of the university with CCW permit and weapon would be in lock down if a shooting were to occur. I would never assume the nearest student or professor with a gun should be the hero of the day, but his or her right to defend by any means should not be compromised.

beatrice 3 years, 6 months ago

Not even when visiting the Governor?

Oh wait ...

That they are making rules that would have an influence on the work places of others but not themselves bothers me more than anything with this.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

Yeah . . . I'd like to get a pension with wth benefits like they do too . . .

gudpoynt 3 years, 6 months ago

"the bill would allow concealed carry of handguns in day care centers"

we're not allowed to do that now? whoops.

at least they're finally getting around to the stuff that matters.

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

It would be nice if the criminals of the world would announce which buildings they are going to terrorize before hand, it would make it much easier to avoid an incident.

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

So when the gunshots started going off in the hallway, what would you have done in the classroom? Run into the hall?

Ken Lewis 3 years, 6 months ago

The least of our worries and needs right now.

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

I don't make any claim to what would have happened at V.T. if someone had be carrying. I can't tell you the Tuscon, Arizona shooting would have gone any different had an armed citizen be able to react quicker, it's all hypothetical.

I have no dreams or aspirations of chasing down a armed gunman on campus, why would I put myself in that kind of danger? However, IF something like that ever happened, I sure as hell want something more than a thin particle board desk to protect me from a gunman. I take the responsibility of carrying seriously, and many others I know who carry look at it the same way. We practice and we train to be able to defend ourselves. We want to be prepared, not out of fear, but out of the knowledge that there really is violence out there. Are you a coward because you have emergency supplies in case a serious storm hits? No, you're prepared, and carrying is simply an extension of that some of us choose to do.

Chances are you've been around someone lately who was carrying, and you had no idea. Where you scared of them then? Make a gun-owning friend, and go shoot with them.

Anyone want to learn how to shoot a gun?

Flap Doodle 3 years, 6 months ago

They took the photo of the bad 'ole mean revolver down?

Aiko 3 years, 6 months ago

Is this why Angela Davis will be here to speak soon?

lawslady 3 years, 6 months ago

LJW - anyone know if/how many other states allow concealed carry on university campuses? And if so, how is it working there. Also, I've been told that even in the military, no one is allowed to carry loaded weapons around just for protection. They have an "ammo room" on base, in barracks, where personal weapons can be stored (must be stored), and you can only get at your gun by checking it out (and back in) from the person in charge of that room.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 6 months ago

"...Also, I've been told that even in the military, no one is allowed to carry loaded weapons around just for protection..." Look how well that worked when a terrorist killed a whole bunch of people at Fort Hood.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

I believe Utah is the only state that allows concealed carry in all public colleges/universities

BlackVelvet 3 years, 6 months ago

And I believe an armed citizen or off duty cop (in Utah) stopped a homicidal maniac by the simple fact he was carrying (i.e. prepared)

voevoda 3 years, 6 months ago

Rep. Knox and other members of the state legislature are rarely on university campuses. Why should they decide? Why not let the university senates on each campus vote and decide whether to allow students and employees to carry weapons on campus? That would be democracy: the people most directly affected get to decide.

Paul Wilson 3 years, 6 months ago

Today’s AP: "READING, Pa. – A 65-year-old man shot one teenager dead and wounded another after they pushed him off his bicycle and tried to rob him in Pennsylvania, police said. The man was cycling on a trail in Reading, Pa., shortly before 11:00 am local time Wednesday morning, when a group of teens pushed him off the bicycle and two of them assaulted him, investigators said. The 65 year old then took out a handgun and shot them both, the Reading Eagle reported. One of the teens -- a 16 year old from Reading -- was pronounced dead at the scene at 12:17 p.m. local time. The second teenager was taken to the hospital but his condition was unknown, according to the newspaper. Cops arrested a third boy at the scene and took him in for questioning. The 15 year old was later taken to a county youth center in nearby Bern Township where he was held on unspecified charges. Police decided to release the 65 year old and charge the juvenile after consulting with District Attorney John Adams, who attended the scene with forensic detectives, the Reading Eagle reported. Authorities did not release his name or the names of the teenagers."


This article from today's AP is all the proof I need that if you can pass the test and the background check...you should be able to carry legally anywhere you like. Thugs don't care where they are at to commit crime. If they know 100% that their prey is not armed, they will not hesitate to act. Only an idiot would say that criminals would not think twice if they knew their target was armed. Now...the article doesn't mention if the 65 year old man was carrying lawfully. He was released after the shooting...so you can make that deduction yourself.

SAYING THAT GUNS KILL PEOPLE IS LIKE SAYING A SPOON MADE ROSIE O'DONNELL FAT.

woodscolt 3 years, 6 months ago

Right, perfect example of turning every skirmish into a deadly one. Shoot first and and ask questions later (if your still alive). Any domestic dispute can now turn into a deadly shoot out. How about innocent people getting caught in the cross fire. Innocent people who were a mile away from the incident . How would their gun have saved them. Putting more guns in more peoples hands to control guns. How about people who can't use hand guns. This guy was 65. How about someone handicapped or say 85 years old. To bad so sad for those folks. How about , say a 3 or 4 year old girl who is sitting on her couch in her house and gets grazed or hit by a stray bullet. She can just pick up a gun and shoot back. Great plan you have.

Paul Wilson 3 years, 6 months ago

Damn...you have got to be either high or under 25. What the hell are you talking about? When you're being attacked by multiple Thugs...you really think there's time to ask questions. And what exactly would you ask them? (a question I really would like to know) Show me one example of a victim of conceal carry crossfire. Show me one example of a victim of conceal carry fire a mile away. So we ban guns because someone was born handicapped? That logic you should go turn in your PC right now. Show me one example of a 3 or 4 year old being shot by conceal carry fire. 3 or 4 year old shooting back? You watch way to much TV. When you can produce some valid evidence instead of just making crap up...people will actually take you seriously. I know I will.

woodscolt 3 years, 5 months ago

Nice of you to twist my comment into what you said. I was referring to a 5 year old girl who was sitting on her couch when a stray bullet grazed her forhead(last week) . I also was referring to the fact that this girl had no defense including picking up a gun and shooting back.

I am talking about the bigger picture that putting more guns in the street has lead to. Your stuck in your little world and I realize trying to get you to see beyond that is waste of time. There are hundreds of incidences every day about people getting hit by stray bullets. Conceal and carry does nothing to prefent that and plenty to cause it. Your living in a pretend world if you don't know that. Furthermore, I don't have a TV.

Paul Wilson 3 years, 6 months ago

I had "ap" capitalized (that's Associated Press for the censors at the LJW) and Reading, PA capitalized as well as the last sentence. Why was it auto changed to all lower case? I was not yelling "ap!!" or anything else at anyone. Even if I was...who cares?

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

When you want your "caps" to stay, keep space around them;

AP : not AP: PA . not PA.

HWMNBN , not HWMNBN.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

Hmmm . . . well THAT didn't work like it was supposed to!

DAMMIT !

kernal 3 years, 6 months ago

In response to my 9:50 am comment today, not every state requires a permit to carry concealed plus there is a loophole in the Brady gun act that allows persons to purchase guns without a background check as long as the gun remains in the state where it was made and the buyer is a resident of that state. Every state does not have a permit requirement for CCW as long as you don't take the gun into a bar or restaurant where liquor is served. I'm not sure about the child care center issue. Also, every state does not require that gun sellers be certified.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

I've seen a lot of rude uncivil behavior on this here unarmed website. But then if we all had a disapearededed button it would be a ghost town . . .

8-)

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

^^^ An American hero! Thanks for watching my back Jesse!

Oops! Didn't mean to get the last word, dammit! Your turn thuja . . .

dwendel 3 years, 6 months ago

This bill has nothing to do with gun rights or public safety. Gun makers want to sell more guns. Gun makers give money to law makers to make laws to help sell more guns. Law makers do what gun makers ask. Gun makers sell more guns and make more money. The end. Sadly, your voice doesn't really matter, one way or the other.

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

p>Concealedcampus.org A student run group started after VT that advocates for allowing licensed concealed carriers to carry on campus. Are all of these students in the pockets of gun makers?

Anyway, your argument doesn't make much sense. This bill would only allow those who already have a permit to carry on campus, so most people already will have firearms for carry. In reality, the overlap of concealed carrier and those on KU campus is quite small and it would be stupid for gun makers to waste there time on such a small demographic.

This bill is about rights, not money.

Paul Wilson 3 years, 6 months ago

How? Why? If you don't have a question or response to the topic.....but only insult or antagonize...you are the Troll.

Paul Wilson 3 years, 6 months ago

By your lack of answers...you have proven my point. Thanks

gudpoynt 3 years, 6 months ago

To all CCW-permit holders: what makes you think all other CCW permit holders, present and future, will be as responsible as you?

I'm sure that you would be perfectly well behaved if you were to hide a fully loaded Glock in your pants and walk into, say, a child's daycare, or the public library during story time, or into a city council meeting when they're having a heated discussion on... whatever.

If you could guarantee that every CCW permit holder would be as responsible as you, always and everywhere, then I would have no problem.

But you can't. Sorry, but you just can't.

And because you can't, I have to ask the question of which is a more likely scenario? 1) Fully loaded firearm, owned by somebody other than you, is lost or stolen in a public place. 2) Fully loaded firearm, owned by somebody other than you, accidentally goes off in a public place. 3) Fully loaded firearm is used by someone other than you to threaten someone else in a public place. 4) Fully loaded firearm is used by someone other than you to harm or kill someone else in a public place. 5) Licenced CCW permit holder, not you, attempts to stop a crime in progress, but ends up shooting someone or something that they didn't intend to, and does NOT result in stopping the crime. 6) Or... the "good" scenario where YOU save the day by shooting a would-be perpetrator, and are actually successful in stopping a crime in progress.

I'm a numbers guy, and I have to say, the increased safety of having YOU have a concealed, fully loaded handgun in your pants is just not worth the risk of somebody who I don't know, who is NOT YOU, carrying a fully loaded handgun in HIS or HER pants.

Since the only gun I carry in MY pants is not for fighting, but rather for fun, I would just prefer that everybody left their fighting guns at home, or an equally safe location. We can continue to rely on the police for protection against criminals, and if we need to start an armed revolution against the government, I will come to you to for a gun and shooting lessons.

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

http://psacake.com/dial_911.asp

Richard Stevens is a lawyer in Washington, D.C., and author of Dial 911 and Die (Mazel Freedom Press, 1999).

"Underlying all “gun control” ideology is this one belief.” “Private citizens don’t need firearms because the police will protect them from crime.” That belief is both false and dangerous for two reasons."

gudpoynt 3 years, 6 months ago

I'm not arguing that private citizens don't need firearms. I'm arguing that they don't need to carry them around with them everywhere they go. Particularly in certain public places where the populace is primarily unarmed, and police presence is sufficient.

I'm saying that if we increase incidence where civilians are carrying in public places, then we increase the probability of a negative incident occurring. And that probability rises faster than the probability that a potential crime will actually be stopped or prevented by a civilian carrying a concealed weapon.

Kyle Chandler 3 years, 6 months ago

Do some research pal, you couldnt be any further from right

gudpoynt 3 years, 6 months ago

oh really?

for every instance you show me that a CCW permit holder used their gun to save somebody or stop a crime, I'll show you two where a CCW permit holder used their gun to kill, injure, or commit a crime.

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

As a "numbers guy," do you base your decision on actual numbers or assumptions you make?

3 years, 6 months ago

"Fully Loaded Firearm" as apposed to what, a partially loaded one? Obviously you are a firearm expert. I'm a CCW Permit holder so I guess you are talking to me or not me.

I'm sorry but there are no guarantees in life, but are these things happening? Handguns going off on their own? Firearms ending up in the lost and found? I have to say, for a numbers guy I don't see any actual numbers. I too would prefer that everybody left guns at home or a safe location but in the real world that does not happen. At the very least I've gone through the background check and training involved. I continue to train and practice. At home in the gun safe or in it's concealed holster, my firearm is safe, it will not just go off. If you don't believe that you don't understand how they function.

pace 3 years, 6 months ago

This is a law that says a place or institution will not have the right to ban guns on their property. Too much government.

Joe Hyde 3 years, 6 months ago

Future news item:

"Kansas gun rights advocates on Wednesday pushed for passage of a House bill that would allow open carry of hand grenades, machine guns and flame throwers by professors and student aides in college classrooms and campuses; and by municipan employees working in public buildings such as libraries and city halls. Employees of day care centers in city facilities would be authorized to carry and use Tasers to neutralize the unruly behavior of pre-school children."

Kyle Chandler 3 years, 6 months ago

Personally, being a criminal, i hope this law doesnt pass. I'll be able to rob most anyone and wont have to worry if they are packing legally. Thanks!

jhawkinsf 3 years, 6 months ago

This is my weapon, this is my gun. This is for killing, this is for fun.

This is my weapon, this is my gun. This is for killing, this is for fun.

woodscolt 3 years, 6 months ago

Brilliant. We need more guns so people can defend themselves against the guns. A typical cave man argument. Lets lower the level of society to the wild wild west. I guess that is a stop on the road map to lowering society to a cave man level. Now people who would never have a gun have to have one just to be able to have a chance against the a holes that are promoting this game of Russian Roulette.

Paul Wilson 3 years, 6 months ago

You are just like every other cowardly liberal in this country...a whole lot of complaining and absolutely no productive solutions proposed. Please...something besides Tax the Evil Rich...because that is the solution proposed by libs for every issue in this county and will obviously not work here.

Criminals will have the weapons whether you want them to or not. Please answer these two questions: How exactly do you propose that citizens who want to protect themselves and their family from criminals with guns do this legally? And if they have been cleared by the AG and have passed the tests...why should they be restricted to where they carry? Put up... or Shut Up!

woodscolt 3 years, 6 months ago

                    "You are just like every other cowardly liberal in this country "porknbeans

nice job of reciting what the school of fox opinion has taught you. You have qualified for a fox fake town hall meeting with Frank "the fake" Luntz. Just make sure you remember your lines.

Paul Wilson 3 years, 6 months ago

Can't answer the questions? Do you need clarification?

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

This is not an issue about concealed carry, concealed carry is already here, and it has been for about 5 years (in Kansas). Yet society hasn't degraded to the 'wild wild west'. You point is invalid.

woodscolt 3 years, 6 months ago

"Gun rights advocates on Wednesday pushed for passage of a bill that would allow concealed carry of handguns on college campuses and public buildings, such as libraries, city halls and day care centers in city facilities."

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

My point, is that this bill is about carrying on campus, not the idea of concealed carry as a whole.

KansasKansan 3 years, 5 months ago

What do cops take to shootouts? Is it maybe.....guns?

RoeDapple 3 years, 6 months ago

Not a phone, and the quality isn't very good. On the plus side, it's only been used once!

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/38500/Vintage-Hand-Gun--38920.jpg

Dixie Jones 3 years, 6 months ago

Who in their right minds think up these bills? Are they as stupid as they seem?

Flap Doodle 3 years, 6 months ago

I don't have the time (or the stomach) to read this whole thread. Has anyone dragged a penis into the conversation yet?

RomelioBobalinski 3 years, 6 months ago

Every US citizen should have the legal right to protect themselves in any manner they deem appropriate where ever they are. Cowards go to our schools and destroy are most precious gifts and then cowardly take their own lives when confronted. In our schools, we need to have a way to confront them earlier in their deadly rampage to prevent further destruction - we need to have, at the very least, the legal ability to carry concealed. The latest numbers show that out of the 110,000 Douglas county residents 940 have concelaed carry. They don't all carry but at least there is that question of "Who is carrying?" In fact, "Who is Carrying?" is a good question because none of those 940 people have ever been convicted of a felony, have been classroom trained, have shown they can shoot what they aim at, successfully passed the KBI and FBI criminal background checks and paid an exorbitant amount of money to get the "Good Guy Card". They can prove they are the good guys, let them carry in our schools.

RomelioBobalinski 3 years, 6 months ago

You obviously don't even know the law. We can't get involved in anything that doesn't directly effect our own person safety or the personal safety of our loved ones. Not just the safety, we have to be able to articulate why we felt our life was in danger and what specific event prompted us to clear leather.

I guarantee that I will be good witness by calling 911, recording descriptions of the assailants and their auto license numbers during any episode or bad situation anyone else is involved in. I make it a habit of not getting involved in anything that ain't botherin' me none. I know this is cold, but I've got no Sheep Dog obligation to anyone.

The way I see it, you can go through the hassle and crap like it did to get your own CCL if you want to proactively protect yourself - or you can be one of the sheep.

KansasKansan 3 years, 5 months ago

Romelio, you're incorrect, but erring on the safe side when unsure about what you can lawfully do is hard to argue with. :)

Jayhawk_4_Life 3 years, 6 months ago

"A well-armed society is a polite society." - That's a joke, right?

Paul Wilson 3 years, 6 months ago

It's forced politeness. False though as a reason to support conceal carry. "A well-armed society is a polite society." I guess is meant to mean: You better be careful who you mouth off to. When in actuality...those who (logical assumption) carry legally aren't the type of people who are going to shoot someone because of their mouth. As proven by the complete absence of shooting cases involving a licensed shooter where they were provoked to act violently because of something someone said.

pace 3 years, 6 months ago

It is saying my right to carry beats everyone's first amendment rights. Businesses and institutions should have a right to ban guns. the law would take that choice.

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

Businesses do and would still have a right to ban guns. State run institutions could not.

KansasKansan 3 years, 5 months ago

It's easily misunderstood, and a weak argument, unless you read it in a specific way. Don't get hung up on it. Just try and find some facts or stats or something besides a quote to base your thoughts on (in reference to the issue).

Oldsoul 3 years, 6 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

goodcountrypeople 3 years, 6 months ago

I'm hugely turned off by Lawrence's culture of street harassment but cannot even in jest suggest that allowing women and those who feel vulnerable to aggressive country bumpkins to tote a glock will make them feel safer and those who do not understand decent social boundaries do a double take.

Lawrence already has a dirty, criminal, Bonnie and Clyde culture feel about it, not only because of the rampant street harassers too stupid to know their arses from their mouths, but also because of all the dishonest lawyers and corrupt prosecutors here. Guns will only magnify the problem.

DillonBarnes 3 years, 6 months ago

Your first paragraph is one sentence.

No trying to be an "arse" but I have no idea what it says.

KansasKansan 3 years, 5 months ago

CCW is already here. You might want to read the bill before choosing a side, that is, if you really do care about the issue.

LeftyHawk 3 years, 6 months ago

Why does the proposed bill not allow concealed weapons in the State House, Cedar Crest, etc.? Change the bill to allow them, drop all the security (saving the State $2 million plus a year?), and let the Gov/legislators defend themselves as needed. I don't see why the campus should be open like the wild west while legislators continue to not get to carry! This is a really bad bill but if they want to do it why stop it short?

HelenaBertinelli 3 years, 6 months ago

This is why it is likely that this bill would result in universities increasing security in order to meet the standards of 'adequately and sufficiently' preventing weapon entry, at least in high traffic areas (student union perhaps). This security increase won't be cheap. That means higher student fees and thus an increase in the cost of education. I don't know about everyone else, but personally I oppose education cost increases.

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