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Archive for Monday, February 20, 2012

Kansas House panel postpones vote on abortion bill

February 20, 2012, 10:03 a.m. Updated February 20, 2012, 2:21 p.m.

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— A Kansas House committee has postponed its vote on a bill aimed at preventing the state from subsidizing abortions even indirectly through tax credits or deductions.

Chairman Steve Brunk said he cancelled Monday's meeting of the House Federal and State Affairs Committee to give members more time to draft possible amendments.

Brunk, a Bel Aire Republican, expects a vote next week. The committee's approval would send the bill to the full House.

The bill also rewrites the state's informed consent law, requiring doctors to provide certain information before terminating a woman's pregnancy. It would require doctors to allow patients to hear a fetal heartbeat.

The measure also would prohibit schools from incorporating materials from groups that provide abortions into classes on human sexuality or sexually transmitted diseases.

Comments

Greg Cooper 2 years, 10 months ago

Here we go, Kansas. Do we relinquish control to this ultra-right legislature or do we call, write, and email all our legislators to let them know we aren't sheep to the Brownback/Koch religious/business bloc? It's our choice: women's bodies are sacred or they fall prey to these people. Choose, and choose wisely and soon.

KSense 2 years, 10 months ago

Women's bodies may be sacred but so is that little life. Believe it or not, it is a living person and no one under any circumstances has the right to end it.

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

It's not a "living person", it's a "developing fetus".

KSense 2 years, 10 months ago

A definition in Webster dictionary defines the word developing as "to change the form of by executing certain indicated operations without changing the value." It stands to reason if a person is valuable after birth, they are no less so before birth. "Living person" or "developing fetus," it makes no difference; both terms refer to valuable life.

hujiko 2 years, 10 months ago

How much will life be "valued" once it's outside of the womb?

KSense 2 years, 10 months ago

Whether fellow humans do or do not value a person after birth does not change the invaluableness of any individual.

Cait McKnelly 2 years, 10 months ago

Ahhh methinks he/she has revealed themselves as a believer in post-birth abortion.

Greg Cooper 2 years, 10 months ago

That does not stand to reason in any way, and your argument is the same as any faux-pro-life argument. Short on facts and long on emotion. That's no way to run a railroad.

KSense 2 years, 10 months ago

I agree all emotion and no proof (or fact) is not good. On the flip side, what are the facts that abortion does not take a life?

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

One refers to a fully developed and born human being, and the other to a developing entity which will eventually become a fully developed and born human being (sometimes).

KSense 2 years, 10 months ago

The fact still remains life is present in both.

Greg Cooper 2 years, 10 months ago

As is life in a celery, a scrimp, and myriad other non-sentient forms. To value a non-aware thing over a fully formed and functioning human is hubris.

KSense 2 years, 10 months ago

Back to that definition of developing. If you are implying that a fetus is on the same level as that of celery or scrimp, then it reasons out that after birth and even after one has reached adulthood, we are no better than celery.

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

In some form, yes.

As it is in semen and non-fertilized eggs.

Are you opposed to birth control as well?

You seem to want to make no distinctions, and this is a topic that requires distinctions in order to sort out.

ivalueamerica 2 years, 10 months ago

your emotional feeling does not substitue for the American Constitutional right to privacy nor does it give you freedom to force women to breed.

voevoda 2 years, 10 months ago

"under any circumstances"? Not even when that "little life" will cause its mother's death? According to many religious traditions--since you are dealing with what is "sacred" rather than what is "legal"--abortion, especially early abortion, is moral and proper under some circumstances. Why should your definition of the "sacred" take precedence under Kansas law?

Kendall Simmons 2 years, 10 months ago

I'm astonished that you believe that a living, breathing woman doesn't have a right to life, too. Because that "little life" must be protected at all cost.

And, yes, that is what you're saying. That even an ectopic pregnancy in the Fallopian tube...where that "little life" CANNOT survive...must be allowed to continue, even if it kills the mother. Yeesh.

KSense 2 years, 10 months ago

I never implied that a "living breathing woman doesn't have a right to life" leastwise not intentionally. My point is, all human life whether born or unborn is sacred. The life of the child and the mother are both equally valuable. My uncompromising belief is that abortion is wrong. I understand not everyone believes that way.

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

So, when a choice has to be made between the life of the mother and the life of the child, where do you stand?

KSense 2 years, 10 months ago

Admitedly i don't have all the answers. I just know to take the life of that child or fetus as you prefer to call it, is wrong. "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends." This being true, surely it is even more so when it comes to our own sons and daughters unborn or not.

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

I'm glad that you say that.

This is a very difficult topic, for thoughtful people, I think.

But, you're the one advocating that both the mother and the fetus are sacred, and yet there are times when choices have to be made.

So, if you or your wife were faced with that decision, you'd choose to preserve the fetus, and kill the mother?

By the way, it's not just "how I prefer to call it", it's the correct use of the language - a child is a born human being, and a fetus is a developing one in the womb.

Hooligan_016 2 years, 10 months ago

"The measure also would prohibit schools from incorporating materials for any group that provides abortion services into classes that deal with human sexuality or sexually transmitted diseases."

God forbid (haha), we actually educate/train people about sexual health. I hate this state so much.

Jonathan Fox 2 years, 10 months ago

Feel free to move to another state. God forbid the majority of Kansas does what it legislatively chooses to do.

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

Yes.

God forbid the minority exercise their rights in our society.

What about when you're in the minority? Do you have the same feeling? For example, Obama won the presidency - if you don't like him, are you planning to move to another country?

Jonathan Fox 2 years, 10 months ago

No, but I don't "hate this [country] so much" (Hooligan) that I will leave just because Obama is president. I will voice my disagreements about him and maybe inform people of why I don't like him, but if more people choose him to be president again I will respect there opinion.

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

Neither does Hooligan - he has no stated interest in leaving KS. That idea came from you.

Many conservatives "hate" Obama with a passion - you can read their angry rants on these comments every day. And yet. somehow, this "love it or leave it" idea that they throw out when liberals criticize Brownback doesn't apply to them.

And, it didn't seem to apply on the state level when Sebelius was governor either, as far as I know.

So, it's just a sort of nasty way to dismiss people, and to diminish opposition, and try to eliminate the minority, who have every right to do as you do in our society.

Hooligan_016 2 years, 10 months ago

Ah, the good ol' "tyranny of the majority"

MyName 2 years, 10 months ago

I've moved to Australia and it still ticks me off that our legislature seem to think they should know more about a person's medical needs than either the doctor or the patient involved. Maybe they should start passing laws saying every person who undergoes a prostate exam should watch the home video of the arthroscope and listen for a heartbeat before deciding whether to have the polyps removed?

Sometimes pregnancies go wrong in a bad and dangerous way, but obviously no one who talks about abortion wants to admit that as it would take time away from their moral soapbox time.

William Weissbeck 2 years, 10 months ago

So it's legal to teach "creationism," but not legal to mention the name Planned Parenthood.

blindrabbit 2 years, 10 months ago

Talk about a detriment to enticing any high tech growth industry to Brownbeckistan. We're becoming no-different from the Olde South.

Cait McKnelly 2 years, 10 months ago

If this bill progresses as written you can be pretty well assured there will be a Constitutional challenge on denial of right to due process because of section 10 (a section steadfastly ignored by the state's entire press). http://kslegislature.org/li/b2011_12/measures/documents/hb2598_00_0000.pdf As caughtinthemiddle advised, call write or e-mail your legislators. If you're really feeling froggy, attach this to your e-mail. http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/i-am-a-woman/politics/2012/02/19/35015 They might pause for about 30 seconds of thought before going about their business. If you're really feeling radical, join the planned march on Washington April 28th. https://www.facebook.com/groups/300397393356744/

Gary Anderson 2 years, 10 months ago

I have long ago decided to stop arguing with conservatives on the topic of abortion. I love to discuss my feelings with liberals and progressives. Conservatives have little ground to stand on when it come to this topic. Those that scream loudest against abortion are also those screaming loudest against child welfare. I have adopted children that likely would have been aborted had I not stepped forward...I personally know few if any conservatives that have done the same.

oldvet 2 years, 10 months ago

You should get out a meet a few more conservatives...

hujiko 2 years, 10 months ago

Conservatives "should get out" of women's uteri

MyName 2 years, 10 months ago

No, the conservatives should go out and meet some more of the people who are affected by their proposed laws rather than just making up BS assumptions so they can feel better about their own morality.

The religious right seems a heck of alot more interested in the "Thou shalt nots" rather than the whole "help the sick and teach the sinners" part of the Bible. Then they go around accusing every other denomination of being misguided in their beliefs.

Katara 2 years, 10 months ago

You really should be directing your comments to social conservatives rather than all conservatives. True conservatives generally believe it is a decision that is best between a doctor and a woman.

Social conservatives want government control and lots of it over social issues. They want government in your bedroom. They want government to legalize discrimination. They want government to ban everything they consider wrong.

True conservatives prefer much less government and generally consider sex to be your own business.

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

Good points.

Where have all the real conservatives gone? Long time passing,...

deec 2 years, 10 months ago

Um...7 billion humans vs 80,000-110,000 bald eagles. Bald eagles would be extinct if they hadn't been protected by Federal law. At this point, increasing the human species...not that critical. We are rapidly reaching the point of surpassing the carrying capacity of the planet.

Kyle Chandler 2 years, 10 months ago

Obviously FalseHope has just outed the PROLIFE movement as just wanting to keep these fetuses for eating!!

No wonder hard line conservatives and faux liberals dont want these fetuses ripening, i mean really, who wants to pay for their dinner to LIVE! PRO LIFE!!! RA RA RA

jonas_opines 2 years, 10 months ago

They don't really get tasty, after all, until they're old enough to be considered Veal.

ksjayhawk74 2 years, 10 months ago

Is it possible that the Kansas GOP learned something from how badly defunding Planned Parenthood went for the Susan G Komen foundation?

Nah!!!!! They're probably trying to decide if they should add the portion that outlaws contraception in Kansas now, or wait till Rick Santorum gets in office. Then it will be a lot easier because Santorum has said he would give states the right to ban contraception.

hujiko 2 years, 10 months ago

Because it goes against conservative's wish to only teach abstinence and outlaw birth control.

Plus, you'd have to discuss sex with your children. What parent wants to do that?

Ick.

Cait McKnelly 2 years, 10 months ago

I had this thought and put it on another thread but... Say that these old white men succeed in outlawing both abortion and contraception and the only means of control over her body left to women is the proverbial "keeping her legs closed" (aka the "aspirin" form of birth control). Ok, what's going to happen to men when women actually start doing that? How are men going to respond? State sanctioned and legal rape? Really, guys, think about it. Deny women access and they just might deny you access. You may just have a bigger dog to hunt in this than you think.

deec 2 years, 10 months ago

I trust your lust will dissipate itself As I've mislaid the key to my chastity belt.

verity 2 years, 10 months ago

You would have a good point, Cait, but I suspect these guys aren't getting any now---and that's why they're so cranky and vindictive.

Cait McKnelly 2 years, 10 months ago

Ahh but they're screwing up things for the men that are, verity :) You'd think they would figure that out :P

Enlightenment 2 years, 10 months ago

What's next, will rape victims be required to marry their rapist?

Cait McKnelly 2 years, 10 months ago

Probably, since rape will be sanctioned once the only choice women are given is to keep their legs shut.

verity 2 years, 10 months ago

Maybe chastity belts will become the rage again. Could be a real economic boom---bring industry to Kansas for manufacturing them.

I'd think they would chafe though.

jayhawxrok 2 years, 10 months ago

I'm so sick of the religious right, their American Taliban hypocrisy is disgusting.

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