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Archive for Wednesday, February 8, 2012

Concealed carry on campuses approved by committee

February 8, 2012

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— A legislative committee approved a bill Wednesday that would allow concealed carry of handguns on college campuses and public buildings.

House Bill 2353 is now headed to the full House for consideration with a recommendation for approval from the House Federal and State Affairs Committee.

State Rep. Forrest Knox, R-Altoona, said the measure would increase safety.

“As concealed carry has been adopted in state after state, experience across the nation has made clear that concealed carry not only benefits the individual, it benefits the society as a whole,” Knox said. “Crime decreases.”

Under Knox’s bill, people who are licensed to carry a concealed gun would be allowed to bring a weapon into a state or city facility unless the building had adequate security measures, such as electronic screening equipment and guards, to ensure that no weapons could be brought in.

But representatives of colleges, cities and counties and other groups have decried the legislation, saying it would be cost prohibitive to have security systems at all entrances.

That means concealed carry would have to be allowed, they said.

Andy Tompkins, president and chief executive officer of the Kansas Board of Regents, said allowing weapons on campus would increase the risk of violence.

Having more firearms on campus would complicate the job of campus police departments, he said.

Comments

thuja 2 years, 2 months ago

Idea- Join the military. Go use guns as tools.

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thuja 2 years, 2 months ago

DillonBarnes: "To the CC, a firearm is a tool"

Interesting point.

What is the job of a CC if their tool is a gun that no one knows they have?

How much are these CC paid for their job and who is their supervisor?

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yourworstnightmare 2 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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gudpoynt 2 years, 2 months ago

yeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaawwwwww!

Instantaneous Deputization! That's what I'm talkin about.

You gotta fight! For your right! To shoooooooooot the evil doers!

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graylanternlizard 2 years, 2 months ago

I am amazed at the misconceptions people have concerning conceal carry laws and those who carry. First, one has to be 21 years of age to even be permitted to obtain a conceal carry permit. So, the majority of student are NOT even able to obtain a conceal carry permit. For those wanting a conceal carry permit they must 1st: Pass an 8 hours training session. The majority of the class consists of vigilant adherence to gun safety and the strict laws one must abide by if given the right to carry. Then one must pass a firing range test to demonstrate ones competency when handling a weapon. 2nd: The individual is required to be finger printed at the local sheriff's office. These prints are submitted to the Attorney General's Office and a thorough background check is conducted. After approximately 6 to 8 weeks, if all criteria are met only then is a permit issued. The people one should fear is not the law abiding citizen that has legally obtained the permit. Those to be feared are the thugs and criminal who pack a gun illegally. Their guns are either stolen or obtained on the black market with serial numbers erased on the weapon. They have no sense of decency and no regard for another's life. Worst of all, these individuals are everywhere. It is a sad reality of current life. They are downtown, in our parks, in parking lots of major businesses and YES probably on campus. Those who choose to conceal carry hope they NEVER have to draw their weapon in self defense. People need to understand who the real enemy is……...

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Getaroom 2 years, 2 months ago

gl0ck0wn3r: So you think I am rich? Look this conversation is about CC permits and not about how many AR-15's, or 50 cal. Desert Eagles one my or may not have in their gun safe. I know people who will buy guns before feeding themselves or their children - and I am serous about that!

My entire point is that it should not be that easy to get a CC Permit, rich, poor, middle class. Day in and day out people of all socioeconomic classes make choices about how to prioritize their resources. When was the last time you went nearly anywhere, in any neighborhood, that you didn't see a TV? It is rare and choices can be made.

If having a small powerful concealed weapon is important enough to a person they will do it, so why not have them skilled at arms? You afraid of being out gunned at the OK Corral? So based on what you are saying, you support anyone having a CC Permit, no matter how minimally they can safely operate a concealed weapon. It seems so, anything goes and above all else - make it affordable too? Since when was gun ownership about affordability? Never. Take that up with the manufacturers - seriously - and see how that works out. Oh, the poor can't afford handguns, please help out the poor get conceal carry permits too. You might think then about starting the first ever "gun stamp and conceal carry program". This is not about sport shooting and game hunting, it is about carrying to kill. Yes, put protect in front of that kill, I don't care about the order. I do not believe, all of a sudden, a wild bunch drunk of college kids will burst onto the scene and start slaughtering people, NO! I am not hysterical. You just don't want any rules, or anyone telling you want you can and can't do. A return to the Wild Lawless West. Survival of the fittest in a dog eat dog world. The free part of gun ownership, is that you are free to have one, not that you are free to do anything you want with one. You have a dangerous attitude.

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Bob_Loblaw 2 years, 2 months ago

Horrible idea..... Many college students will and do exhibit "unstable behaviors"...whether its from stress, poor academic performance, drinking, drug use....or simply and commonly.....pulling an "all-nighter". All of the above can lead to momentary lapses in judgment that can have detrimental consequences when carrying a weapon. The University felt that students were under enough pressure to institute a Fall Break (it was not around when I was at KU).

So lets arm them as well and sanction it...

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Kevin Haislip 2 years, 2 months ago

next they will allow guns in bars and strip clubs! what are they thinking?

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Fred Whitehead Jr. 2 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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swan_diver 2 years, 2 months ago

May Mr. Knox and the glock-owners of this world take a richly-deserved 'bullet,' and soon.

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obamasocks 2 years, 2 months ago

Idiotic. So by the same argument, why not allow high schools to conceal carry guns to high school?

How many shootings have been on campus in the past decade? You think this will actually DECREASE that number?

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Getaroom 2 years, 2 months ago

Well now, isn't this just 38 Special! OK, now it is past high time the requirements to get a Kansas CC Permit must be upgraded and ASAP. As it stands now it's a joke. Don't believe me? Pay up and do it - simple in and out, with the most minimal of skill and intellectual abilities required. It is generally understood that the test is "taught" and few fail. The percentage of failures is very small indeed. Reassuring isn't it? The shooting abilities test is a joke for sure!! To qualify as CC worthy, nothing short of a full 50 hours of controlled range time should be required, maybe more, but certainly until skill at arms is proven and certified by a qualified instructor. No Free Market Capitalist should have any issues with that right? It's just business eh - Math? CC is a very big responsibility and should not be entered into lightly by anyone at any legal age. The chances of being in a situation that require the action of drawing a handgun from concealment are rare and few, if ever in civilian life -thankfully. The responsibility of removing a handgun from concealment with the distinct purpose of defending the life of another or yourself is great. This cannot be emphasized enough. The pure legalities are great by just carrying the weapon, let alone actually discharging a weapon in public, as in a college classroom. I am all for gun ownership and support it fully. However what I see being bantered around on this blog today and many other times - is a form of mass hysteria. Anyone who has ever been placed in a position to actually discharge a weapon at another human and kill them, will know this to be true. In combat, I have been in such situations so ask yourselves, "am I ready to kill another person" before you embark on this path of CC. Be ready to give your finger prints, remove your weapon in places that do not allow handguns, i.e., bars! Alcohol Jell-o Shooters and guns do not mix party goers. Think this is too strong, wait until you are faced with making the choice to draw and you will know strong. All this "I am an American", "Guns are my GOD given right" tough militia, anti Obama junk - is crap compared to the reality of shooting another human. It is not fun and games, "play time Patriots" - it is for keeps!! Remember, this is not a question of simple gun ownership, this is about allowing people to carry a gun, for which the sole purpose of removing from concealment and pointing at another person is, to kill, not wound but kill! Get that? That is a big deal and has nothing to do with being Patriotic or how much one hates Obama, or any other political jargon. That has no place in this discussion - period!

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KansasVoices 2 years, 2 months ago

That's right ... Norm Stewart, Billy Tubbs and Johnny Orr are completely safe when they bring their FELONS into the house that Phog built.

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firebird27 2 years, 2 months ago

Someone posed a question about research on having guns and crime. Author John R. Lott, Jr. has conducted empirical studies in which the evidence the presence of guns reduce crime rather than increase it. To access information about his work, get onto Amazon.com and enter the book title, More Guns, Less Crime

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ddhawkfan 2 years, 2 months ago

Great idea IMO. To the people not for this, when/if something bad does happen, its fine you can hide behind me and my concealed carry card. Also I am just as trained with my firearm as 'most' law enforcement officers and would bet I can group a lot tighter too.

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Flap Doodle 2 years, 2 months ago

And the moaning and wailing did rise up into the firmament from the disappointed progressives who want to eventually disarm responsible American citizens. Sucks to be you guys. (from a source)

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Alexander Smith 2 years, 2 months ago

I got a few words... and think about it..

Guns on campus.. legal....... Hilltop daycare.. 80+ children.... College student with a gun..

Enough said. Guns need to be removed from campus. Only POLICE should have them.. They are trained to handle them and handle them in high pressure situations. The REST OF US ARE NOT. Sadly the only thing that is going to wake up the morons fighting for this law is for a innocent person or child to be killed by student/teacher with a concealed to carry weapon.

OH one last thing.. the British are not going to invade KU Camputs nor the Indians. Thats one of the reasons the second ammendment was created.

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Michael LoBurgio 2 years, 2 months ago

brutus

Republicans think rape isn’t a crime, but miscarriages are.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 2 years, 2 months ago

"All the people that think this is a bad idea that think a Virginia type incident is so rare....and maybe it is. But- How many women have been raped on campus in the last 50 years?" - Brutus

Come on, the Illinois State Police Information Center on Sexual Assault says a woman should not fight back because many rapes are designed to degrade and humiliate a woman, and advise women to put their fingers into their throat to make themselves vomit .

http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/assault.cfm

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brutus 2 years, 2 months ago

All the people that think this is a bad idea that think a Virginia type incident is so rare....and maybe it is. But- How many women have been raped on campus in the last 50 years?

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FalseHopeNoChange 2 years, 2 months ago

Obama's "Fast and Furious" gun running operation could be used to follow Liberals.

Think of all the lives that could be saved.

Now there is a "progressive" idea born of conscientious deliberation.

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TopJayhawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Say what you want. Concealed carry has been the law of the land in various states for yrs.
Something like 47 states allow it. And Vermont has no gun laws for this. Millions of people are licensed.
The press would be all over a case of CCL abuse. It just hasn't happened. There's your proof.

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anagram 2 years, 2 months ago

This is a breathtakingly bad idea. It's not even worthy of debate.

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Benjamin Roberts 2 years, 2 months ago

08Champs (anonymous) replies… "By law abiding you mean they have no convictions in the last 5 years - such high standards. And what, an 8 hour course? You can't train the idiot out of someone."

DIST responds: "You can't train the idiot out of someone." A point proven by your comment, which takes one point out of context, in a five-point statement. Additionally, you misstated the actual point - the requirement is 5 years after the prison release date, not the conviction.

Felony disqualifications:
(1) Even if expunged, any person felony conviction, no matter when the conviction occurred, where the convicted person was found to have been in possession of a firearm at the time of the offense;
(2) Even if expunged, any felony conviction that occurred within 5 years of application;
(3) Even if expunged, any nonperson (or similar) felony conviction that occurred within 10 years of application if the person was found to have possessed a firearm at the time of the offense;
(4) Unless expunged or pardoned, any person felony conviction, where the convicted person was not found to have possessed a firearm at the time of the offense, listed under KSA 21-4204(a)(4)(A) that occurred within 10 years of application.
NOTES: The 5 and 10 year prohibitions listed above will be determined from the individual’s prison release date (not date of conviction) if they were sentenced to prison. All prohibitions are applicable to juvenile adjudications for the same offenses.
(5) Any person still subject to the terms of a diversion agreement for a felony violation.

http://ag.ks.gov/docs/forms/concealed-carry-application.pdf

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Jonathan Fox 2 years, 2 months ago

I find it sad that I can count on one hand the number of posters that even understand the issue. Most here don't know anything about our existing concealed carry laws. This is a law only for allowing CC on public university campuses and some gov't buildings. There already is concealed carry allowed on most other places. How many shootouts with innocent people being hit by CC holders are there? Can anyone give an example? That's 90-some % of the whole state, and now everyone is freaking out about carrying on school campuses?

How many people do you think would have died at Virginia Tech if a student somewhere happened to be carrying. 32 people died and 25 more injured before a response was made. The first thing CC holders learn is the fact that you know what your firing at and anything behind it. Why is it so hard to understand that a 8 hour class teaches a lot and makes for a very capable person to stop from having so many people die.

When officers arrive on a scene, they always announce themselves. Next, they would identify a weapon and order them to drop it. A CC holder knows (from their 8 hour course) to immediately drop their weapon. Officers aren't going to come into a room, see a gun, and start shooting, CC or not an officer will handle the situation the same.

Please try and learn about the issue. If a CC allowed on campus is allowed on campus, I'd like to think that alone scares anyone from trying to open fire on students and if not I think a lot less than 32 people will die before the threat can be taken down.

It seems to me that everyone is more worried about the off chance of an accident than about taking down a threat from killing people.

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Joe Hyde 2 years, 2 months ago

Do we have crime reports or statistics on file that give evidence of aggravated assaults taking place on any campus properties or classrooms in the state of Kansas? I'm talking about the kind of assaults where the use of deadly force by a concealed carry student or professor could be justified as a means of preventing death or serious bodily injury to someone who is being attacked on campus property?

Somehow I doubt a significant threat exists, or ever did exist. This Bill looks like an election year solution in desperate search of a real-world problem to solve.

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Lawrence Morgan 2 years, 2 months ago

This is a very BAD idea. It makes me feel much more hesitant about recommending people to go to KU.

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tange 2 years, 2 months ago

Ya know, my gun has become such an intimate part of who I am that I've decided to take it to the next level...

http://cdn.gamerant.com/wp-content/uploads/Dead-Souls-Machine-Gun-Arm.jpg

And, before you go off about what the forefathers intended, consider my inspiration...

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kwyocwJScg1qausevo1_400.jpg

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brewmaster 2 years, 2 months ago

If this bill becomes law then we can be comforted knowing that "responsible student-athletes" like the Morris twins could legally conceal and carry lethal guns around KU campus. As opposed to just shooting at students from their dorm room window with BB and pellet guns.

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thuja 2 years, 2 months ago

Nah, you really don't toe. That's just your fear controlling you.

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toe 2 years, 2 months ago

Good. Unless there are officers posted in every building, you must protect yourself.

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FalseHopeNoChange 2 years, 2 months ago

My gun is always concealed. It's the law. My rifle on the other hand is never carried in public.

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Kirk Larson 2 years, 2 months ago

Mose republican strategy for creating jobs...for EMT's, ER Doctors, undertakers, SWAT teams...

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chedder 2 years, 2 months ago

Chootspa,

Concealed carry is prohibited at non-shooting sporting events. Those who I've met that do carry observe the law, including where they can and cannot carry, so none would be there armed.

What do you mean "I worry about the people who think it's easier to keep their weapon if they can just casually claim they've got a permit."? Keep their weapon in what scenario?

Friendly fire is a concern. I'd imagine your odds of surviving an event involving a shooter with nobody to offer resistance is much lower than if there is someone there defending themselves. I won't say for certain, because I have no data though. I try to keep this opinion logical and information based.

Rattlesnakes = cchl holders now? I can't say I've heard that argument. I can't say it makes sense, either. Incidental contact with a rattlesnake may result in injury/death, incidental contact with CCHL holders happens everyday without incident. You've probably been a part of this, without even knowing it. How about the example of capturing rattlesnakes, removing their fangs/venom and releasing them back into the wild? I think that will go well for the snake. We'll just put up signs that say "No eating snakes", the animals are sure to abide by the signs, right?

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jonas_opines 2 years, 2 months ago

I would guess the odds are extremely likely that whether this passes or does not pass, unless you were looking for it, nobody would every know the difference.

It seems like both those people yelling in horror at the thought of it passing, and those declaring that you should always be carrying your gun because You Never Know, should try to be less fearful and paranoid. It must be hard to go through life with so much fear of the unknown.

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autie 2 years, 2 months ago

I love the folks from Southeast Kansas because I are them!....Yes, Forrest Knox can't see the forest for the trees...he is just another embarrassment to the region much in the same vein Virgil Peck is...and he wants guns in helicopters pointed and fired at brown people. And don't forget good ole Mr. Otto from Leroy...another stupid redneck. Believe me they don't speak for SEK...just a small ignorant portion. Don't ask me how they get elected.

And about those guns...somebody is liable to get shot!

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TheGreatOz 2 years, 2 months ago

Just because this law has been passed does not mean that every college student on campus is going to bring a gun to campus. How many college students already have a Concealed Carry Handgun license? How many are going to run out and pay the $132.50 license fees? There's also 8 hours of training involved in obtaining the license with a certified instructor.

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CardHawkFan 2 years, 2 months ago

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. However, somewhere that equation changes when you increase the number of people who have access to guns. I took hunter's safety when I was a child and have even enjoyed firing guns at ranges recently as well. However, just seems like the opportunity for violent crimes increase when you provide "ammunition." A firecracker is just a an object until you add a flame. Law enforcement has to be going nuts over this...headline reads "Reports of body count increases during routine traffic stops, etc." Now police will need to have guns drawn just to write tickets because they will never know if person has a firearm. Not that they don't know now, but I would say it increases the likelihood. It is a frustrating situation as it is anyway when a person gets pulled over, now picture it when the chances increase that both parties involved have a deadly weapon and now one of the two just started having a cruddy day. Just doesn't make sense and I am not sure how a Rep from Altoona would have a better idea about what rules should be like in busier places any way. Not 100% sure, but I am guessing there are more people at the Salty Iguana for Hawk Talk than live in that town. And, I love the folks from southeast Kansas because I am one of them!

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chedder 2 years, 2 months ago

I've got to stop posting from my phone... 1.25% of 7290 is 92 students. Cripes.

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Flap Doodle 2 years, 2 months ago

You can still send little Billy and Susie to college in the People's Republic of Illinois where there is no legal concealed carry for ordinary citizens.

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bigpimpin 2 years, 2 months ago

So will I be able to pack heat at AFH??

Gonna be f*cking awesome.

Love carrying my gatt around. Someone steps to me I will blow their f*ckin head off.

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chedder 2 years, 2 months ago

Correction: 1/3 of 27000 is 7290 rather than 30%.

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BlackVelvet 2 years, 2 months ago

So nice to see so many people have such faith in their fellow man/woman. 1) MOST college "kids" would not qualify for a concealed carry permit. 2) The vast majority of permit holders are much more responsible than most of the posters on this forum. 3) the whole point of carrying concealed is that no one knows he/she is carrying (hence the word concealed) 4) you never know when or where a situation may arise when you need to protect yourself, therefore it's better to always be carrying. THe police can't be everywhere and they can't protect you. They come along after the fact and try to find the bad guy and arrest him/her. It's up to YOU to protect yourself and your loved ones. It's very easy to think nothing will happen at KU because, after all, it's a college campus! Tell that to the Virginia Tech folks. And others around the country.

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chedder 2 years, 2 months ago

Looking at the largest state university in Kansas, KU. Enrollment is approx 27,000. 81% are over the age of 18, we'll be generous and assume 30% of those are over 21. This gives us 7290 enrolled students who are old enough to legally purchase a handgun, and are eligible for the KS CCHL. IIRC, approx 1.25% of the population statewide has been issued a CCHL. Applying this to the 7290 students of age would show that 73 students have a CCHL on the KU campus. Assuming all of these carry 100% of the time, there would be a maximum of 73 concealed firearms affected by this legislation at KU. Hardly a number I'm worried about. Go for it.

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think_about_it 2 years, 2 months ago

That was sarcasm right? If not what the hell are you smoking dude?

I've never seen a post with more inaccuracies, well, other that from bozo_on_the_bus

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Alexander Smith 2 years, 2 months ago

Okay this is the biggest joke. Drunk college kids with guns. ..and we need to have them on campus why?? Oh wait, the Apache indians might raid the campus...that or the wild bears and cougars will charge in and eat us. There is NO reason for concealed firearms to be allowed on campus NONE.

And here is the killer part..a funny situation. A student has a concealed to carry and decides to be stupid and actually take one. He steps into a class room, a teacher by chance sees it, calls the police. The police arrest the student for having a firearm in class room which is against the rules. The student gets kicked out of school or fined.

For those supporeting this..how much of a moron are you?? Thats great you can carry a firearm..BUT practically every public facility strictly prohibits firearms in the facility. So whats the STUPID point of having one? About the only place you can carry it is in your car. You can't have a concealed weapon in public parks? Did you know that ?? Its illegal.

As for what the one person stated about the fore fathers? He has a point. The reason we had the 2nd ammendment is because 1.) we didnt' have a strong military. 2.) we were expanding America into the wilds 3.) We had to deal with the natives. 4.) we had to hunt for our food... NOW lets fast foward to current day. 1.) we DO have as strong military. 2.) We are no longer expanding into unkown wilds. 3.) Don't have to worry about being scalped anymore. 4.) We have things called grocery stores. 5.) The only reason left that would really justifiy us having firearms is hunting and if someone invaded the USA. WHICH will NEVER happen. No country could sustain a invasion of the USA.

Oh one last thing, I have been to many safety courses around firearms and I can tell you at least 90 percent of the people do not have the skills nor the psychy to actually use it in high stress situation with out high chances of hurting/killing a innocent person.

Keep guns off campus, I will never send my kids to KU knowing there is a high chance there is a over zealous KU fan with a possible hand gun ready to lose and pull it out.

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somedude20 2 years, 2 months ago

More nutso then crazy cat people! This CC is the gateway drug to carrying around flamethrowers, rocket launchers, machine guns, hand grenades, tactical nuclear weapons and acid; much like letting homosexuals marry is the gateway drug to allowing marriage to dogs, polygamy, dolphins and Republicans

Dumb law but whatever......sure after a few years of inbreeding these folks who want to carry guns everywhere will not be able to see and will be deneid a permit due to limited sight (I mean what back woods place would allow the blind to own and carry)

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Enlightenment 2 years, 2 months ago

So glad the Republicans in this state are tackling the important problems the state is facing.

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Enlightenment 2 years, 2 months ago

After more staff and equipment is needed at public facilities to accommodate this silly bill, the Republicans will be trying to figure out why expenses for facilities are increasing. Sad part is, they will ultimately cut staff salary and benefits to accommodate this bill, which has no proven benefit.

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Enlightenment 2 years, 2 months ago

However, more staff and equipment will need to be added at entrances, so this must be their way of job creation.

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Enlightenment 2 years, 2 months ago

I guess the Republicans believe it is more important to make sure everyone is armed instead of looking at ways to create more jobs.

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mom_of_three 2 years, 2 months ago

I can imagine it now - students calling in to campus police because they see someone with a gun (concealed maybe not so concealed), and then campus police have to check all those instances out. Or a party in a dorm and someone gets stupid, finds someone's gun. Course that could happen anywhere, but as smart as some college students are, some of them lack common sense.

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Paul R Getto 2 years, 2 months ago

Should make grading easier for the professors. "Everyone gets an A. Lock and load, ladies and gentlemen."

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its_just_math 2 years, 2 months ago

More common sense Republican leadership---making our lives safer. Thank you.

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Eride 2 years, 2 months ago

Most deaths and serious injuries involving firearms are ACCIDENTS, not intentional usage of the firearm. Allowing students to bring weapons to campus doesn't solve any problem, it only creates potential problems!

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jayneway 2 years, 2 months ago

Yet another reason why DATA and understanding at least a modicum of statistics is important. Show me the DATA (collected from a strong research design and then peer reviewed) that draws a direct CAUSAL relationship between carrying weapons and the reduction in crime!!

"I'm a state representative and this is true because I said it's true" doesn't cut it. It doesn't cut it whether the guy is republican or democrat.

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irvan moore 2 years, 2 months ago

when i was 19 years old the government gave us guns

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DillonBarnes 2 years, 2 months ago

More guns, in the hands of law abiding citizens, benefits society as a whole.

There, that wasn't hard. It looks promising for this bill, it has passed the house before.

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Hooligan_016 2 years, 2 months ago

"As concealed carry has been adopted in state after state, experience across the nation has made clear that concealed carry not only benefits the individual. it benefits the society as a whole," Knox said. "Crime decreases," he said.

Citation please?

"[more guns] benefits society as a whole"

Please say that out loud. It sounds crazy.

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gsxr600 2 years, 2 months ago

Increase the risk of violence? Andy Tompkins clearly underestimates conceal carry holders. They're a respectful, lawful, and responsible bunch.

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bigpimpin 2 years, 2 months ago

I am packing 8 inches of heat daily...no permit needed.

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08Champs 2 years, 2 months ago

Crazy, stupid idea - this is not what the founding fathers had in mind!

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