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Archive for Sunday, December 2, 2012

Lawmaker to take another shot at concealed carry

Bill would let permit holders take guns into universities, city halls

December 2, 2012

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— Supporters of carrying concealed guns in Kansas will reload when the 2013 legislative session starts in January.

“We can trust the average Kansan to carry a deadly weapon,” said Rep. Forrest Knox, R-Altoona. “It is not the weapon that is evil; it is criminals that misuse weapons.”

Knox was elected to the Kansas Senate in November and will take that position in January.

During the last legislative session, Knox pushed a bill that would allow concealed-carry permit holders to take their weapons into public buildings, such as university classrooms, dorms, city halls and other such structures if those buildings didn’t have devices such as metal detectors designed to detect illegal weapons.

During House debate on the measure, there was a provision put in the House bill that would have allowed universities to exempt themselves, but they have to reconsider that decision after four years. Another amendment exempted hospitals, such as Kansas University Hospital.

Knox said that when the Legislature convenes in January, he will introduce the bill in the form that it was in when the House approved it. But he noted that because of the dramatic change of members in the House, the bill may be further amended. In January, 52 members in the 125-member House will be new.

Knox argues that expanding where Kansans can carry concealed weapons improves safety by putting firearms within easy reach of law-abiding citizens.

Higher education officials opposed Knox’s bill and worked to get the opt-out amendment for colleges put on the bill. They were pleased when Senate leaders ignored the whole package.

But because those moderate Republican leaders voted out of the Senate during the GOP primary in August, the fight is on again.

“Our position is we still don’t believe that guns on campus is a good option,” said Mary Jane Stankiewicz, a spokeswoman for the Kansas Board of Regents. Campuses are actually safer than the communities they are in, she said, so a guns-increase-safety argument doesn’t wash.

And she pointed to testimony on the bill from Richard Johnson, associate vice chancellor for public safety and police chief at KU Medical Center.

Speaking on behalf of all university police chiefs in Kansas, Johnson said increasing the number of guns on campuses would produce greater risk and confusion during a crisis.

If police receive a report of an armed individual on campus, “How does the responding officer know which person in the classroom of 300 students is legally in possession of a firearm or is armed with the intention of killing others?” Johnson asked.

But Knox maintains that public buildings that show a sign prohibiting against carrying a weapon inside are invitations to criminals.

“When people will give it rational thought they see the logic that a sign, prohibiting concealed carry, does not make them more secure. It makes them less secure, in reality, because criminals have weapons and appreciate knowing locations where others do not,” he said.

KU Student Body President Hannah Bolton said she and other students frequently discuss the issue of concealed carry on campus.

“As student body president, I care deeply about the safety of the student body, and I do not believe that allowing people to carry weapons on campus will create a safer environment for students and faculty,” Bolton said.

She said student leaders from the six regents universities lobbied against Knox’s bill last session and will do so again in the next session.

But supporters of the bill also say that people who get concealed-carry licenses are extremely law abiding.

In fiscal year 2011, which ran from July 1, 2010, through June 30, 2011, the attorney general’s office issued 8,295 concealed-carry licenses.

During that same year, 25 applications were denied, 39 concealed-carry licenses were suspended and 127 licenses were revoked.

Eighteen of the 25 applications denied were rejected because of disqualifying criminal history or the applicant was subject to a protection from abuse order.

The 39 license suspensions occurred because the license holder was charged with a crime, including seven that were assault with a firearm.

Of the 127 license revocations, most were revoked because the licensee moved out of state, but some were revoked because of criminal convictions, including sex and drug crimes.

Officials at University of Colorado Boulder and Colorado Springs campuses have set up “gun dorms” for students with concealed-carry permits, but no one has asked to live in one. Gun rights advocates say that is probably because students who carry concealed weapons don’t want to move.

Comments

Glockslinger 1 year, 4 months ago

The logic couldn't be more simple: criminals don't obey laws. They're ALREADY CARRYING their guns wherever they want. (We saw this at Virginia Tech, which had its own exemption.) A law prohibiting the lawful carrying of firearms then DISARMS THE LAW ABIDING. This gives any and all armed bad guys the upper hand.

Incredulously, the academic mindset still believes that the increased number and availability of guns somehow leads to more crime, regardless of the real world statistics that proves otherwise! They also seem to not understand that, to a trained, licensed firearm owner/CCW, a gun will never become an issue unless someone tries to kill him/her; that guns are always a LAST RESORT. Instead, their policy is fear-based, which results in worse consequences when violent crime DOES intrude on campus life.

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JBurgherr 1 year, 4 months ago

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Two recent Supreme Court Decisions have ruled the second amendment is an individual right, so this is settled case law.

I say, the 2nd Amendment is my "Concealed Carry Permit". Arizona and New Hampshire have it right; no further laws or regulations are required. The 2nd Amendment is sufficient.

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Betty Bartholomew 1 year, 4 months ago

I work in an office where people, no matter how reasonable and kind they are most of the time, tend to turn into nasty, unreasonable folks when they come in, complete Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde situations. I'd rather they not be allowed to have a gun while I'm talking to them.

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BABBOY 1 year, 4 months ago

I had a gun pulled on me once. Not by a thug, but by a guy who thought I was doing something wrong. I was kid, underaged, and we were drinking in alley in a truck behind this moron's house. We were getting ready to go to high school basketball game and we were taking shots in the alley before parked. He comes out with the gun down at his side and wanted to know what was up. He comes up to my door. I open my door hard and knock his him down jump out of the car and throw his gun over the street. He gets up and I knock his $ss out. Not my first guy I ever knocked out, but my only gun incident.

Guns are stupid......

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Gandalf 1 year, 4 months ago

It sure is a topsy turvy world at times! Many people who opinions’ I normally respect seem to lose their minds when it comes to guns. I have no problem with background checks to try to insure criminals’ can’t purchase firearms legally. I do have a problem with any kind licensing designed to restrict law abiding citizens from owning or carrying guns. Why? For the same reason I don’t believe in testing people for the right to vote.
There should be no test required to use our constitutional rights. No, I’m not saying arm 7 yo’s with rocket launchers, even though I owned my 1st rifle at 9.

Face reality folks, guns and CC are not the problem. Criminals are.

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autie 1 year, 4 months ago

And as we all know all too well, the other carriers hurt you. Sometimes very badly. First you carry because your father wants you to. Then you carry to get the girls. If you keep on carrying, you do it for the scholarships, and to get the girls. The you carry for money and the girls. The you get to just watch them carry adn that's fun. But nobody like carry. Nobody.

/from a source/

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lawslady 1 year, 4 months ago

a. I like guns and enjoy target practice with them. So I am not anti-gun. b. The state house (where Rep. Knox works) does not allow guns to be carried inside by anyone but law enforcement officers.They have each and every entrance to his place of work blocked by law enforcment and scanning devices. To have extra officers at each entrance or put up such scanners at all buildings on campuses would cost tens of thousands of dollars, if not millions. What's good for the goose.... c. The parents/relatives of those killed at Virginia wrote a letter AGAINST allowing guns to be carried on campuses. d. Young adults typically tend to drink (Party) more and have not as yet learned to control their stronger emotions. And school campuses are often places where emotions run high (Think jilted lovers etc.). and e. School campus (and other law enforcement officers) uniformly oppose guns on campuses because, in part, when shootings begin it makes their job even harder b/c it is impossible to tell if those doing the shooting are good guys or bad guys.

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verity 1 year, 4 months ago

People who don't want to carry their gun(s) openly know that nobody would sit with them at lunch. Nobody.

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Bob_Keeshan 1 year, 4 months ago

The Kansas GOP --- making it easier for Kansans to carry guns, but harder for Kansans to vote.

1

neworleans 1 year, 4 months ago

I support conceal and carry.............. www.witchita massacre. com

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thuja 1 year, 4 months ago

I interact with many people who do not know I am not carrying a handgun every day. Why should I be forced to reveal that I am unarmed? It would only create unease, controversy and perhaps danger to me as the criminal would be forewarned that I am unarmed and perhaps shoot first before robbing me. Do I sound completely insecure, or what?

1

bearded_gnome 1 year, 4 months ago

Voevoda wrote, without intending to be ironic: let fact-based reality seep back in.

---this is so funny coming from someone who's just spewed so much hysteria about law abiding concealed carry licensees! the published facts contradict his/her malarky.
lol caught ya!

1

Briseis 1 year, 4 months ago

This is Obama's America. Only his people should be armed with guns.

This how he should take them away from non-government people.


Incrementalism has proved depressingly effective as a tool for getting most people to quietly surrender their rights piecemeal. For gradually habituating them to an ever-diminishing circle of liberty. When the circle finally closes and their rights no longer exist at all, they hardly notice – because by that time, most of their rights have already been taken.

The final surrender is met with a shrug rather than a scream of outrage.

Think how Americans have been habituated to arbitrary search and seizure. Something like the TSA would simply not have been tolerated if it came out of the blue sky circa 1980. And no, the terrr attacks of nineleven did not “change everything.” Getting people to accept “sobriety checkpoints” beginning around 1980 changed everything. Accept that – and something like Gate Rape is inevitable


http://ericpetersautos.com/2012/11/24/heres-how-it-will-be-done/

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autie 1 year, 4 months ago

It may be important to note that Forrest Knox talks to God and he thinks it is 1912, not 2012. I'm much more afraid of evangilical idiots in the Senate doing God's will than I ever would be of a gun toter.

1

George Lippencott 1 year, 4 months ago

I wonder when it will be enough? How about machine gum towers on the corner of every property??

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msezdsit 1 year, 4 months ago

I am more concerned with the people wearing guns on gun belts.

1

verity 1 year, 4 months ago

Considering that by definition half the people are below average, and in my experience, average in the general population ain't that great, well, you get my drift.

All things considered, I feel much safer without a gun---and certainly my TV is much safer. I doubt it would ever get through an election season alive if I had a gun.

Last, I don't believe any of the people who brag about their wonderfulness with a gun and how they would protect themselves and others and be heroic and remarkable under pressure---again the law of averages.

OK, have at----

1

FarneyMac 1 year, 4 months ago

Carrying rocket launchers should be mandatory for all Americans over the age of 7.

0

beatrice 1 year, 4 months ago

“We can trust the average Kansan to carry a deadly weapon,” said Rep. Forrest Knox, R-Altoona.

Yes, this is true. It is the less than average person we need to worry about.

Even with training, returning fire at a crime scene can be a bad idea. Look at the situation in New York, where a shooter kills one person, trained police officers return fire, nine bystanders are shot -- all by the police returning fire. Does anyone really believe that people who have taken a class are going to do better in a pressure situation than the trained police? http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20120824/midtown/police-shot-all-bystanders-empire-state-gun-battle-sources-say

Adding guns to a bad situation is not a guarantee of a better outcome. That is not intended as criticism of conceal and carry laws, just an observation.

Of course, any legislator who wants to pass laws that brings guns into YOUR workplace but keeps them illegal in HIS workplace should be questioned. If the average Kansan with a gun isn't a concern, why would they not also be allowed in the capitol building?

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Armored_One 1 year, 4 months ago

I never will understand the fascination with guns.

Then again, also see no point in creating the opportunity for some jerkwad to shoot me in the back (C&C is pretty much useless at that point) and give him/her yet another weapon and more ammunition.

Material things are replacable. If the fool is going to shoot you, yer gonna get shot at, at least, if not air conditioned the hard way. The instant you pull a gun on someone that already has a gun pointed at you, you may as well be signing your death certificate.

Don't care if other people carry. Makes no difference to me one way or the other. Well, the rabid, my-gun-is-bigger-than-your-gun crowd does tend to amuse me, so if they lost their guns, I might not have as many chuckles in a given day. I guess I do care, just not in a manner the rabid ones appreciate.

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JackMcKee 1 year, 4 months ago

Even in the Wild West they knew the best rule was "check your guns at the edge of town".

1

voevoda 1 year, 4 months ago

Maybe Rep. Knox trusts the "average Kansan" to behave responsibly, but should we trust the "average undergraduate" to do the same? The "average undergraduate"--a "C" student!--can't even manage to get assignments done properly on time and attend class reliably. Why should we imagine that s/he will be more responsible in carrying a firearm?

University students are against concealed carry on campus. Faculty are against concealed carry on campus. University administrators are against concealed carry on campus. University police are against concealed carry on campus. So why are state legislators, who don't set foot on campus ever, trying to impose it on people who don't want it?

2

Bob Forer 1 year, 4 months ago

The proposed legislation doesn't go far enough . There have been many reported instances of kids bringing guns into our schools and killing other kids and/or school officials. Armed children could avert many of these tragedies. And it would probably make the schoolyard playground more civil. A kid will think twice before calling another kid a "stinky butt," as he could get blown away.

Any kid old enough to aim and double tap should be allowed to apply for a permit.

2

RoeDapple 1 year, 4 months ago

Segregated housing defeats the purpose of concealed carry.

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weeslicket 1 year, 4 months ago

the last time i was at the capitol building, it had a sign posted saying that guns were not allowed inside. as i recall, the capitol is a public building.

it's very difficult to take lawmakers seriously when they exempt themselves from the laws they pass on others.

6

FlintHawk 1 year, 4 months ago

I'll admit up front that I have limited personal knowledge about guns. The men in my family were hunters, and there were always a lot of rifles and shotguns around. Handguns? No. But JayhawkFan1985's post makes me wonder: Why is this debate about "carrying concealed"? Why do the guns have to be concealed? Why can't those who want to carry get permits to carry openly, like law enforcement and military? I hope someone sane can explain this.

1

JayhawkFan1985 1 year, 4 months ago

As I understand it, Wyatt Earp required cow polks to check their guns (which were worn in the open in western style holsters) at the town marshal office. that was an era when personal security was far more of an issue than it is now. This ain't the wild west anymore. If people want to carry guns, let them do it honestly and in the open so the rest of us know how insecure they are and won't say something they could potentially over react to...

2

bearded_gnome 1 year, 4 months ago

Bozo spewed: Yea, because by moving into one of these dorms, they'd be totally surrounded by other gun freaks like themselves.

---so according to Bozo, a trained, licensed, law abiding well behaved american citizen with a CCW license and a gun is a "gun frek?" think Bozo needs to say "freak" when he looks into his cracked mirror.

1

bearded_gnome 1 year, 4 months ago

ever heard of Virginia tech? gun free zone really worked well there, didn't it?

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DillonBarnes 1 year, 4 months ago

"Of the 127 license revocations, most were revoked because the licensee moved out of state, but some were revoked because of criminal convictions, including sex and drug crimes."

To clarify, 106 of the 127 were because the licensee moved out of state. Two of the 127 were reinstated when they were cleared of whatever disqualified them.

1

rtwngr 1 year, 4 months ago

The criminals don't have concealed carry permits. Why should I have to have one?

1

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 1 year, 4 months ago

"Officials at University of Colorado Boulder and Colorado Springs campuses have set up “gun dorms” for students with concealed-carry permits, but no one has asked to live in one. Gun rights advocates say that is probably because students who carry concealed weapons don’t want to move."

Yea, because by moving into one of these dorms, they'd be totally surrounded by other gun freaks like themselves.

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