Archive for Thursday, September 15, 2011

Kan. doctor says Tiller never sought abortion OKs

September 15, 2011, 8:15 a.m. Updated September 15, 2011, 3:09 p.m.


— A Kansas doctor who's facing possible sanctions over her mental health exams for young patients testified during a Thursday disciplinary hearing that she never felt pressure from the late Dr. George Tiller's clinic to approve them for late-term abortions.

Dr. Ann Kristin Neuhaus said Tiller sought and she provided independent second opinions about whether Tiller's patients legally could obtain late-term abortions. A complaint before the State Board of Healing Arts accuses of her of negligence in exams for 11 patients aged 10 to 18, all at least 25 weeks pregnant, before referring them to Tiller for late-term abortions in 2003.

The state law requiring the second opinion also restricted abortions starting at the 22nd week of pregnancy, if the fetus was viable. It required that a patient face death or "substantial and irreversible" harm to "a major bodily function," which then included her mental health. Legislators tightened the law this year, and it no longer includes the mental health exception.

Neuhaus began providing second opinions for Tiller in 1999 and continued through 2006. She conducted exams in a private room in his clinic, driving there once a week from her home in Nortonville, about 30 miles north of Lawrence. She diagnosed the 11 patients covered by the complaint with acute anxiety, acute stress or single episodes of major depression.

"He told me never to take his opinion or feel pressured," she testified, referring to Tiller. "He wanted a completely independent opinion."

Neuhaus, a general practitioner, testified that she started doing mental health exams for pregnant women and girls more than two decades ago.

Attorneys for the board contend Neuhaus failed to meet accepted standards of care in her exams and have presented testimony that her records don't contain information about each patient to support her assessments. They've also said she used a computer program, "PsychManager Lite," to produce reports with what a Georgetown University professor described as "generic" statements about patients' health.

Neuhaus testified she couldn't have even purchased the software without a medical license and said it was developed by the authors of the most recent edition of psychiatry's diagnostic manual. She said she used it to compile information after interviews with patients.

"I wasn't expecting this thing to make decisions for me," she said. "There is no computer module — unless the government has some secret one, somewhere — to make medical decisions."

A single hearing officer is presiding over the case and will issue an order recommending whether Neuhaus should face sanctions. The 15-member board, mostly doctors, will make the final decision and has the power to revoke her Kansas license.

Neuhaus doesn't have an active medical practice, but her Kansas license allows her to provide charity care. The board says Neuhaus has asked to return her license to full, active status.

Anti-abortion groups have pushed the board to discipline Neuhaus since at least 2000. The hearing resulted from a 2006 complaint filed by Operation Rescue.

Tiller was one of a few U.S. physicians performing late-term procedures when a man professing strong anti-abortion views shot him to death in May 2009. The doctor had been acquitted two months earlier of misdemeanor criminal charges that, in relying on Neuhaus for referrals, he wasn't getting the independent second medical opinion as state law required.

Neuhaus performed abortions from 1994 to 2001 at a Wichita clinic and operated an abortion clinic in Lawrence from 1997 to 2002. She ended both practices, citing financial problems.

Cases about Neuhaus were before the board in 1999, 2000 and 2001, with some allegations dealing with record-keeping and handling of medications. In the past, she's had her ability to dispense drugs restricted or temporarily suspended. In 2001, she agreed to modify her clinic's procedures and allow random inspections of its records over two years.


woodscolt 6 years, 5 months ago

I guess Dr. Neuhaus should consider herself lucky if she only gets her license provoked. regardless of her innocence. These people murdered Tiller and the which hunt continues.

Kim Murphree 6 years, 5 months ago

No proof here that she is a "bad doctor" only proof that she is falling victim to the same bunch of right wing crazies who think women become property of the state as soon as they become pregnant. You gotta just be sick when people want to force a 10, 11, or 12 year old girl to go through childbirth.

verity 6 years, 5 months ago

Witch hunts and trick laws to subvert democracy. It's all these people have.

A pregnant ten-year-old? Must have been promiscuous. She must be punished by endangering her own physical health and forced to bring a child into the world that she can in no way care for, and who will likely be molested by the same person(s) who molested her.

Really, how could anyone question terminating a pregnancy for a ten-year-old?

Ron Holzwarth 6 years, 5 months ago

It would be a good idea to do it a bit earlier if it has to be done, rather than waiting until it is necessary to obtain a late-term abortion.

But, I have no idea how that could be implemented because so many young women, or should I say very young girls, stay in denial of pregnancy for a very long time.

Kate Rogge 6 years, 5 months ago

How can anyone doubt that compelling a pregnant ten year old to deliver her rapist's child won't cause her physical and mental damage? Kansans for Life is, in itself, an abomination and subversion of common decency.

verity 6 years, 5 months ago

I would really like to not have to talk about abortion. I would like for it not to be the only issue that many people seem to decide their vote on---and therein lies the problem. Although I am female, it is a decision I will never have to make, but I am outraged that other woman who will have to make that decision are not being allowed to make it without the interference of those people who are not acting in good faith.

chootspa 6 years, 5 months ago

Did she perform abortions? According to the article, she did not. She merely gave a second opinion. Therefore, she was not an "abortion doctor."

somedude20 6 years, 5 months ago

I am blown away that a 10 year old's body is mature enough to have the reproductive system working so I googled it and got this:

5.7 years of age for one....holy spit!!!!

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 5 months ago

Actually, she did perform abortions. Here in Lawrence, no less. She had to shut down for financial reasons. (Despite the fact that "we all know these greedy doctors only do it for the money".) After she shut down the Lawrence practice she began working with free health care clinics giving care to poor, uninsured people. She did the psych evals for Dr.Tiller's patients on the side. I am pretty thoroughly convinced this woman is the target and victim of a pro-birth witch hunt. Given the ages and circumstances of the women and girls she evaluated (10 year olds? Who in their right mind could/would think a 10 year old could carry a baby to term without health risks!), it's pretty evident she's being railroaded. Here's hoping the Board of Healing Arts has at least some sense and sees through this.

Liberty275 6 years, 5 months ago

If it isn't a Romeo/Juliet situation, put the accused on trial before a jury of his peers and let them decide his guilt. If they find him guilty, let them recommend a sentence to the judge. If the judge deems the sentence constitutional, schedule an appeal. If the appellate court affirms the conviction and sentence, impose the sentence and allow the guilty to request appeals if he can convince a court he has grounds.

Why would anyone in America say anything different?

Kim Murphree 6 years, 5 months ago

NO...if the girl is 10 it is rape PERIOD...he goes to trial no judge do not pass go...go directly to JAIL.

chootspa 6 years, 5 months ago

Of course she is. If they can convict her of something then maybe they can better rationalize killing a law-abiding, praying man at church. Ten year olds will have to stay pregnant, likely with their own half sibling, because Kansas supports a "culture of life," don't you know.

itwasthedukes 6 years, 5 months ago

Did you know that babies are alive and they did absolutely nothing wrong why do they deserve the death penalty with no trial? Especially late term! If you knew how late term works it would make you sick and this lady is the one who made it legal.

deec 6 years, 5 months ago

Embryos and fetuses are not babies. They are essentially parasites until exiting the womb. If they were babies and they did absolutely nothing wrong, then they are innocents who go straight to heaven. Why do you want to make babies suffer before they go to heaven? Unless they are catholic babies; then they have to go to limbo instead. Or are the catholics not doing the limbo thing anymore? Interesting too, that "this lady is the one who made it legal". I thought the Supreme Court did that in 1973.

TopJayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

The issue is she claims to have done mental health evaluations on these girls that obviously she did not do. That is fraud, and was done to facilitate an early term abortion Dr,.

It's a shame none of you seem to care about the mental health of preteen girls. How callous of you.

Tiller took a round between the horns at close range. That means he suffered less pain in his death than the children did in their deaths arranged by him.

kansanjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

I'm pretty convinced that your mind is closed to what is actually going on inside of these killing centers.

Bob Forer 6 years, 5 months ago

A Kansas witch hunt at its finest. Sounds like the only mistake the good Dr. made was agreeing to provide evaluations for Tiller. They physically killed Tiller. Now they are trying to professionally kill Neuhaus. Shameful, absolutely shameful.

ksjayhawk74 6 years, 5 months ago

"Kansas law then permitted the abortion of a viable fetus starting at the 22nd week of pregnancy only if the woman faced death or "substantial and irreversible" harm to "a major bodily function," which included mental health. The law was tightened this year and now has no mental health exception."

So now the mental health of a 10 year old girl who was was raped is not important...

chootspa 6 years, 5 months ago

I would imagine a ten year old faces substantial and irreversible harm to a major bodily function by trying to carry a baby to term. Not that it matters, since there's nobody here qualified to save that poor ten year old.

jhawkinsf 6 years, 5 months ago

"So now the mental health of a 10 year old girl who was raped is not important" The problem I have with a statement like that is that it plays to the most extremist of scenarios. Certainly, the mental health of a ten year old rape victim must be considered. But should we also consider an extreme scenario on the other end of the spectrum? "Wow, man, this third trimester stuff is bumming me out, especially since I learned this fetus is a girl and my baby daddy wants a boy. I think I'll dump this one out and try again later. And oh yea, I can't afford this abortion, so I'll get a free one at that clinic over there, tell 'em I was raped or something".
It's the extremist scenarios on both sides that cloud our judgement. Yes, abortions should be available. Not ALL the time. Yes, mental health should be considered. Not ALL the time. Yes, the people should fund these procedures. Not ALL the time.

Katara 6 years, 5 months ago

Can you point to a proven instance of your other extreme scenario?

Otherwise, it is just an incredibly insulting assumption about the state of a woman's mind on your part.

jhawkinsf 6 years, 5 months ago

Actually, I was reading an article the The New York Times Magazine Section a couple of weeks ago. They were talking about the issue of reduction, when a pregnancy results in multiple fetuses. There was general consensus in the medical community that there was no need to reduce two fetuses to one. However, recently, doctors have been doing that, basically saying that if it's O.K. to reduce from one to zero, it should be O.K. to reduce from two to one. But when reducing, how does one decide? Most women just let the doctor decide. But some did not. Some decided on the basis of gender. In my opinion, abortion for the purposes of gender selection is abhorrent. And it is one of the few examples where I think society has a legitimate role in saying that it is abhorrent and therefore we condemn it and ban it's practice. As to the mental health issue, I suspect a woman being "bummed out" at her pregnancy is as rare as ten year olds being raped with a resulting need for an abortion.
I didn't mean to suggest an insult to woman's state of mind. As I just stated, it would be a rare case. But, yes, I believe it happens.

kansanjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

yes it is important and that is why her parents should be involved in these decisions by law. Abortion will never make a terrible situation like this better it only brings more violence and destruction into the womans life.

jafs 6 years, 5 months ago

It gets tiring to have to correct this mistake over and over again.

About 2/3 of the voters who voted voted for Brownback, but there was only about a 50% turnout.

So about 1/3 of the eligible voters in KS elected him.

Speculations about the 50% that didn't vote are just that - there's no good way to know who they might have voted for, or against if they had voted.

jhawkinsf 6 years, 5 months ago

Jafs, considering the low voter turnout in all elections, do you think there's even one elected official in all the U.S. that received above 50% of all eligible voters? I seriously doubt it. O.K. maybe some small hamlet with 10 voters and some guy got six votes. But really, unless voter turnout increases dramatically, we have no other choice but to consider the person who gets the most votes as the legitimate elected leader, whether or not they get above that magic 50% +1 or not.

jafs 6 years, 5 months ago

I agree that we have pathetically low turnouts.

And, I never said he wasn't the "legitimate" winner.

However, "more people voted for him", followed by "Brownback haters are a small little minority" is not supported by the facts I'm aware of.

It's one thing to say he won the election - it's quite another to claim that the "majority of KS" voted for him, etc. as many like to do.

The fact is, with ridiculously low turnouts of about 50%, results of any/all elections can hardly be considered the "will of the people".

jhawkinsf 6 years, 5 months ago

I mentioned this in another thread, that we all have affirmative obligations. I used April 15th. as an example. We all have an affirmative obligation to file our tax returns and pay our taxes. We can't simply say "I didn't do anything". Right, that's the point, you didn't do anything and there are consequences as a result. In that case, the government might come after you and throw your butt in jail. Just for doing nothing. In the voting example, we all have an affirmative (right) to vote. If you choose not to, what are the consequences? The answer is that you are deferring your judgement to others. You are saying loud and clear that you wish others to make the decisions and that you're fine with whatever decisions they make. What you are not doing is remaining silent. Your message is loud and clear. I think you're playing a semantics game. Give people credit for knowing what they are doing, even if what they are doing is saying that they wish to defer to others.

kansanjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

any way you want to cut it he won the election fair and square...

KS 6 years, 5 months ago

I guess I have to ask the question: Who got a ten year old girl pregnant? I am starting to think like Phill Kline! Oh gosh!

Kim Murphree 6 years, 5 months ago

Phil Kline would have revictimized the victims...he wasn't trying to help the victims...he just wanted to use the issue for political gain. You catch the bad guys through investigations by SRS (when there were enough workers) and police, not by going through people's medical records. What a bunch of hoooey.

lunacydetector 6 years, 5 months ago

what about the man who impregnated the 10 year old? was this rape reported to the authorities?

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 5 months ago

"I guess I have to ask the question: Who got a ten year old girl pregnant?" The problem is that it makes no difference to the "pro-birthers" whether or not her rapist was caught and convicted. In many cases of extreme underage pregnancy, the rapist tries to actually avoid abortion to evade detection and capture. Kline used such cases to try and say that perpetrators were using abortion expressly for that purpose, yet never revealed how many of those cases were actually the outcome of detection and capture. Anti-abortionists try to use that pseudo excuse to this day. You will find it peppered among the posts of known anti-abortionists on this very board. In the meantime, it is expected that 10 and 12 year olds will carry those fetuses to term, no matter how horrific the consequences to the children that are being forced to bear children. In this case, my opinion is that pro-birthers that would force such children to give birth are just as guilty of abuse as the perpetrator.

kansanjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

pro-birthers???? what kind of a term is that? those of us who are pro-life oppose the brutal killing and dismembering of unborn babies.

Kim Murphree 6 years, 5 months ago

You are not PRO-LIFE because you care nothing about the life of the mother ...not at all....and you care nothing about the life of the child after it is born....I say you are PRO-SLAVERS because your only agenda is to force a woman to give birth...thus the term pro-birthers....the name should fit the true agenda.

Paul R Getto 6 years, 5 months ago

Ideology and the remains of the age of magic are wonderful things, if you get to apply them to someone else and they are not applied to your life. You go, Muscular Sam. Your weird little businessman jesus must be proud of you.

jayhawxrok 6 years, 5 months ago

Another right wing witch hunt. Only republicans think a 10 year old knocked up by her father should get the permission of her rapist to end the pregnancy.

You're all about getting big gubmint out of our lives except for when you want to decide what's best for everyone else.

kansanjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

you are, of course, twisting the conservative view, pro-life people support the dignity of all life, we support helping women and girls in these situations. We just believe that another act of violence does not make the rape go away or make the situation any better!

jayhawxrok 6 years, 5 months ago

rockchalk you're wrong. It's not our fault everyone W of Topeka would vote for Bin Laden if he had an R by his name. You morons would turn this state into Alabama in a heartbeat if we let you, gladly, we won't. Brownback and his zealot ilk are a disgrace to the state and the nation.

kansanjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

This type of comment is reflective of a truely closed mind. Conservatives are not supportive of oppression or cultural backwardness. It is liberalism that has destroyed this culture and the family unit by destroying traditional family values and the work ethic!

Frightwig 6 years, 5 months ago

I've read the story twice and I still can't find where it says the 10 year old was raped. Can somebody tell me where they read that? Please post a link because I want to see if they caught the creep who did it. One commenter said she was raped by her father. Where did you read that? Hopefully her father is now behind bars.

ksjayhawk74 6 years, 5 months ago

Since a 10 year old child is well below the age of consent, it goes without saying that she was raped.

Frightwig 6 years, 5 months ago

I just wasn't sure if this was a case of two young kids, say 10 and 13 doing adult things or a matter of a little girl being abducted and raped a knifepoint. They're both wrong to do but there is a difference. I just wanted to know if they caught the perpetrator.

Frightwig 6 years, 5 months ago

No "offense" was meant "Agnostick". I was "was" just wondering where "people" were getting details "of" the case.

grimpeur 6 years, 5 months ago

Hard to believe anyone could be this mistaken.

When Six and Parkinson were in office, they allowed the proceedings (initiated by Phill Kline) to continue.

Then Tiller was acquitted.

Then one of Troy Newman's acolytes killed Tiller.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 5 months ago

What is not said in the "article" about Christin Gilbert is that on not just one but multiple occasions her family refused to and did not follow post procedure instructions. They refuse to take any responsibility what so ever in their daughter's death, preferring instead to shift the blame to the medical personnel that cared for her and provide fodder for the "pro-birth" cartel. One wonders if they didn't deliberately kill their daughter (she did, after all, have a life long disability) as a sacrificial lamb for the "movement". That may be an over the top, harsh statement but it's no more over the top than some of the accusations leveled against abortion providers.

kansanjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

oh--I see let us blame the victim--come on face it women are still dying from abortion. Dying and now you oppose better regulation....

kansanjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

abortion is a brutal violation of the human rights of unborn children and an abuse of women.

Kate Rogge 6 years, 5 months ago

I don't believe unborn children are children.

kansanjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

it's back to biology class for you--what do you think they are--fetal pigs or some other animal?

Kim Murphree 6 years, 5 months ago

Forcing a woman to bear a child is abuse of women...and slavery, because her body is no longer her own. And I note you don't say anything about support for those unwanted children after they are born.. I bet you are one of the folks who support the cutbacks for programs for the underpriviledged? What hypocrisy.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 5 months ago

"abortion is a brutal violation of the human rights of unborn children and an abuse of women"

Want me to macro that for you so all you have to do is push one button? Put it on a bumper sticker? (Oh wait, you can get that from OR or AoG. I'm sure they have all kinds of bumper stickers and buttons about "unborn children" and "beating hearts".) Keep screaming that rhetoric over and over and over again, KJH. Maybe, someday, it will actually be true, just like maybe, someday, Jesus really will come back (along with King Arthur, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny).

kansanjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

what a "bitter" little remark...maybe can have a little faith.

Kim Murphree 6 years, 5 months ago

I have God and women...and I say God understands when a woman chooses not to bear a child. In any case, the decision should be between her and her maker.

verity 6 years, 5 months ago


Statistics report that 12% of abortions are performed after 12 weeks (3 months) of gestation, and 1.5% are performed after 20 weeks (5 months) of gestation. Many attribute the steady decrease in the proportion of abortions performed after the first trimester to increased access to and knowledge about birth control practices and safe, legal abortion services.

Women who have abortions after the first trimester are generally younger and poorer than the statistical average of all who have abortions. Women under 18 years old obtain 30% of their subgroup's abortions after the first trimester. . . . Common Logistical and Personal Reasons for Partial Birth Abortions -- Lack or lack of recognition of pregnancy symptoms, particularly by adolescents -- Inability to afford a first trimester abortion -- Inability to locate medical assistance during first trimester (due to lack of local medical professionals) -- Lack of financial resources, emotional support, and/or partner"

verity 6 years, 5 months ago

KJH at 11:40 am "women are still dying from abortion. Dying and now you oppose better regulation...."


"In 1998 and 1999, as in previous years, deaths related to legal induced abortions occurred rarely (<1 death per 100,000 abortions)."

"in the US….The maternal mortality rate for 2004 was 13.1 deaths per 100,000 live births."

Kim Murphree 6 years, 5 months ago

"Better regulation?" Legalization of on demand abortions would bring about safer conditions for women who seek abortions because it would become a vetted normal practice that would encourge greater expertise and better access. I oppose regulating it out of existence, which is what most new "regulation" is all about.

kansanjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

The fact that mortality is rare (due mainly to anti-biotics) does not change the fact that women are dying and children are being dismembered and the medical profession is being made into something much less ethical by abortion on demand as a method of birth control. It needs to be restricted and limited to the extent allowed by the U.S.Supreme Court.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 5 months ago

Oh! So that means RU-486 is ok since it doesn't involve "dismemberment"? And I'm still curious. Were you one of the people that saw the abortion records that Kline held (and still, illegally, holds)?

kansanjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

you twist the legal truth...because the reality is that Kline did not abuse his authority in any of these cases!... R u 486 is a completely different issue but just do a little research and see how it works...same principle applies and women die from that pill as well.

Kim Murphree 6 years, 5 months ago

OH my gosh...stop protecting us!!! Women can make their own health decisions...we don't need your help!

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 5 months ago

You still have not answered my question. Let me spell it out for you. D i d -y o u -s e e-t h e-a b o r t i o n-r e c o r d s-h e l d-b y-P h i l l-K l i n e?

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