Archive for Saturday, October 22, 2011

Missouri’s exit would be no great loss for the Big 12

October 22, 2011


Aside from the Kansas City Chamber of Commerce and its retail members, who really cares if Missouri leaves the Big 12 Conference for the Southeast Conference?

It is known that, years ago, University of Missouri officials tried to gain membership in the Big Ten Conference, but they were rejected. They tried again within the past year or so and once again were denied admission.

Now, MU officials have knocked on the door of the Southeast Conference, asking to be admitted. Initial reports indicated that not enough SEC presidents were in favor of accepting a new member, but, apparently, there has been sufficient arm-twisting that the Tigers have been accepted by the membership committee.

Again, who really cares?

Granted, this writer is a lifelong fan and supporter of Kansas University, and his thoughts about MU may be based on individual actions and incidents, so it is wrong to generalize about the entire MU family. However, for whatever reason, Missouri is a different university and is in a different environment than the other Big 12 schools. Their fans are different; their alumni are different; their behavior is different; and they really don’t fit in with the other Big 12 schools.

It’s obvious football and money are the driving forces at MU. The university is not shifting to the SEC for academic reasons because the Big 12 has had far more schools in the American Association of Universities, the nation’s most prestigious association of research universities. Prior to Texas A&M;’s move to the SEC, the conference had only two AAU schools: the University of Florida and Vanderbilt University.

The Big 12 would have the opportunity to invite one, two or three new members to join the conference if Missouri bolts. Chances are, whatever schools are invited, they will strengthen the excellence of the overall conference rather than merely add another football school.

If MU leaves, the annual Big 12 postseason basketball tournament might be moved, probably to Oklahoma City. Likewise, the so-called “Border War” football game between KU and MU, held at Kansas City’s Arrowhead Stadium in recent years, would come to an end, and any replacement game for KU would be played on the campuses of KU and its opponent — where they belong.

Some in Kansas City are trying to dream up other athletic events in their city to replace the dollars that would be lost by the demise of the traditional basketball tournament and the KU-MU football game. All this is based on dollars and cents and has nothing to do with school ties, history or geography.

Some have asked whether, even if Missouri is no longer a member of the Big 12, KU would agree to play the Tigers in some kind of annual football or basketball game in Kansas City. Based on KU basketball coach Bill Self’s reply to such a suggestion, the chances of such a game are slight.

A Baylor University coach recently was asked a similar question about continuing to play Texas A&M; teams now that A&M; is joining the SEC. She likened the situation to a nasty divorce. After all the fights and accusations and after the divorce has been granted, the husband acknowledges the divorce but asks his former wife if he might be able to occasionally sleep with her. The coach answered this hypothetical question with a resounding “NO.”

With MU officials and the thousands of MU fans urging the university to thumb its nose at the Big 12 and jump to the SEC, KU officials and fans should make it clear they have no desire to continue any athletic events with Missouri.

MU officials have made it clear they think playing football games in sold-out stadiums and the money attached to such games is the most important yardstick in determining their future intercollegiate athletic and academic relationships.

Once again, who’s sorry to see them leave?


jayhawklawrence 6 years, 8 months ago

I agree.

I understand the attraction for Missourians to Kansas City after spending time in Columbia. It is a depressing place.

LogicMan 6 years, 8 months ago

No, we hope they stay.

But if they go, we want to extra big fees from them to help us recruit even better teams.

JLT 6 years, 8 months ago

For those of us who are from Texas, there is no real passion about playing Missouri. They are a good team on the schedule every year. They are not a doormat, and not elite. We'd much rather see BYU on the football schedule. Further, many Texans, for whatever reason, feel like it is a State betrayal to attend an out of state school. We'll be happy to see Missouri's recruiting pipeline into Texas dry up.

Missouri football fans will have to brace themselves for a 5 year transition (maybe longer) that will be really bumpy. The coaches will have to establish new relationships with high schools in the Southeast and other areas where they have typically not recruited. That will take a while. While current players, and even current recruits, may remain loyal, Missouri will have very little appeal for future prospects since Missouri will not be playing in Texas.

Good luck Mizzou. I wish you the best. And I wish you'd hurry up and make the decision formal and public.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 8 months ago

"Missouri will have very little appeal for future prospects since Missouri will not be playing in Texas."

They would be playing in the same division as Texas A&M, as well as Arkansas and LSU, who have long recruited in Texas.

JLT 6 years, 8 months ago

I didn't say "no" appeal, I said "very little".

If you don't think the Mizzou recruiting value proposition to Texas kids is reduced by moving to the SEC, you don't know Texas kids and you are simply kidding yourself. Louisiana and Arkansas are border states and are not fair comparisons.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 8 months ago

But you said they won't be playing in Texas, and they'd be there at least every other year, and playing against Arkansas and LSU, who will have greater appeal to Texas kids once A&M joins. So while Missouri may become less appealing to Texas kids, they'll be more appealing to kids from Florida, etc. Eventually, it's probably a wash for Missouri, recruiting-wise.

JLT 6 years, 8 months ago

It may very well be a wash. But as I said, be prepared for a transition period. Recruiting is the lifeblood of any college football program. Things will get worse for Mizzou before they get better. But I do wish the Tigers well and wish they would go ahead and make the move so we can upgrade football with the likes of BYU.

Daniel Kennamore 6 years, 8 months ago

If Mizzou joins the SEC they'll be in the East division, meaning they'll get a trips to Texas A&M and Arkansas only once in their four years at Mizzou. They're recruiting in Texas will drop off to near zero.

JLT 6 years, 8 months ago

Any Mizzou coach pitching a trip to Texas every couple of years is going to sound a lot like Charlie Brown's teacher. Noise.

Out of curiosity, why are football fans excited about joining the SEC? The Tigers never did anything special at all in the Big 12. With all due respect, they were just good to average.

Is there more prestige in being beaten, fairly routinely, by Alabama and LSU over Texas and OU? Basketball fans may have reason to be hopeful, but it isn't clear what football fans are excited about. Nothing too sexy about perpetual 5-5, 4-6, 6-4 seasons.

Bob Harvey 6 years, 8 months ago

Simply put, leave already. If you are waiting for everyone to beg you to stay you are going to be sadly disappointed. My only regret will come when the SEC says no to you the same way the Big 10 did. Hopefully , if that happens your spot at the Big 12 table will have already been taken. Ole Mizzou cannot stand alone like Notre Dame.

Paul R Getto 6 years, 8 months ago

Good riddance, slavers. You fit better with the southern goobers anyway.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 8 months ago

Spoken like a true Kansan, Dolph.

Jealous, bitter, and ignorant of reality.

I am not a Mizzou fan at all, but it will hurt KU and the KC area when Mizzou leaves the conference.

lunacydetector 6 years, 8 months ago

let them go is just like an employee who threatens to leave unless their demands are met....let them leave. don't let the door hit ya' where the good Lord split ya'

Brandon Devlin 6 years, 8 months ago

Let 'em leave. Let them get their butts kicked around the SEC for a while. . .and no, you don't get a game against KU each year. Get yourselves to the tournament, and maybe you'll get a chance to meet us. . .and get beaten yet again.

Good riddance and Rock Chalk!

JS82 6 years, 8 months ago

No we do not need Missouri in the Big 12 but the tradition of being with them in sports for over the last 100 years has been good. It has been a great rivalry and it will be missed. MU is free to leave and find that pot of gold they are looking for. I really doubt is out there but it is up to them to make their decisions. We will make our decision which is past any legal obligations to play them based on some contract that the rivalry and the need to play them is over.

CHEEZIT 6 years, 8 months ago

I'm wondering???? What would Don Fambrough say? Wish he was around so we could get his call. Either way I bet he would make it interesting!!!!

CHEEZIT 6 years, 8 months ago

Oh and Missouri who was suppose to be so good is losing again and has won only one more game than the hawlks!!!

jhawkinsf 6 years, 8 months ago

Texas and Texas A. & M. played for 117 years. With the departure of the Aggies, that will end. K.U. and Missouri have played for 119 years. If Missouri leaves, that too will end. And it should end. There are lessons in life that need to be taught. This is all about money and it's all about Missouri wanting a little more. But there are consequences. They will lose a true rivalry game. They should lose it. And trying to save face, trying to say we're willing to play K.U. every year (in the state of Missouri), well, the hell with that. If Missouri leaves, they are abandoning their conference for a few pieces of silver. Let them go. At least I can be a Tigers fan whenever they play Auburn and L.S.U.

ccp 6 years, 8 months ago

KU fans. we get it. You don't care about MU. You don't care so much that you have to say it over, and over, and over again. The simple truth is that KU cares a LOT about Mizzou. KU fans love to hate. It fuels them. They define themselves by whom they hate, namely K-State and Missouri. As someone who has lived in both Columbia and Lawrence, I can tell you that KU fans care a lot more about Missouri than Missouri cares about KU. So spew a while longer, but then shut up about it. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. Also good to hear that KU, unlike Missouri, has not interest in football or money. Didn't know that. Thanks for enlightening me, Dolph. Also good to hear that MU fans are different than KU fans. Those Muck Fizzou shirts are pure class.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 8 months ago

You're just a mirror image of those you attempt to denigrate.

Not all KU fans, nor all MU fans, see the rivalry in juvenile terms. The games are entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. Raising them to a life-and-death status detracts from the entertainment value of the games themselves (and have nothing to do with fans entertaining themselves by talking about it on forums like this.)

ccp 6 years, 8 months ago

I don't disagree with a thing that you said. And if I gave the impression that I have bad feelings about KU, that was a mistake. I support KU and love to see them win. I do hate the trash talking thing and the "never spend a dime in Missouri" thing. It just takes the fun out of it for me. If I sounded defensive, it was in response to what I thought was, as you described above, a "juvenile" message in this column and the absurdity of taking the time to write about how little you care about something. When I said KU cares more about Mizzou than vice versa, that is honestly just an observation (and opinion) of someone who has lived in both places. I love a good, spirited rivalry, but don't enjoy it when it gets mean or personal.

CHEEZIT 6 years, 8 months ago

Don't be jealous because Kuck Fansas just doesn't sound right!!!

beaujackson 6 years, 8 months ago

Other than the KC,MO merchants, who (in KS) CARES about playing games in KC MO?

It's all about money for KC MO.

tolawdjk 6 years, 8 months ago

Curious if we will get a replacement back to 10 schools or just stay with 8 football teams in the conference?

tolawdjk 6 years, 8 months ago

When Mizzou leaves we will have 8, unless KU discovered a football team on eBay recently.

thebigspoon 6 years, 8 months ago

Kiss the Big 12 tourney at the Sprint center good bye...

grisgris 6 years, 8 months ago

I hope they go - and the door hits them on the way out - I'm tired of sending all that money to Kansas City, MISSOURI.

Terry Sexton 6 years, 8 months ago

Yah, bigspoon, that's what Kietzman said, but I disagree.
Ton's of KU fans there & other schools also like KC. Kiss games at Arrowhead goodbye & that's ok with me.
Plus KC can draw better than any other location. Some say Wichita, some say Okla City. I s'pose those are viable, but Mizzou is irrelevant to where the tourney is now or will be in the future.

straightforward 6 years, 8 months ago

You seriously think the Big XII will keep the tournament in KC just because there are KU fans here? Try getting that past the Texas schools. In their minds, the last thing we need is any advantage. I haven't heard anyone say Wichita but I have heard Texas Stadium, which the conference would love ($$$).

Hammertoe 6 years, 8 months ago

Kansas loses is biggest rival, an AAU school, to a more prestigious conference and they won't be missed? The Big 12 powers will all be in Texas. Arrowhead games and Big 12 Tournament will never happen in Kansas City, Missouri. To sports fans around the country, it's a major blow to both Kansas and the Big 12. If the SEC was courting Kansas, the fans would be "all in"....

LHS56 6 years, 8 months ago

I do enjoy hating MU. Sure its only a game but there sure are highs and lows. How can we replace "sit down Norm" or one-half of the peace sign? Easy....g.... I would suggest the Big 12 give Missouri a deadline. Either sign up for six years or you're out. Then....when the SEC says we really don't want you they can enjoy trying to schedule as an independent. (yes...I know...the SEC will take them but it is fun to dream....)

Mike Ford 6 years, 8 months ago

Mizzou can get in the canoe and pick up the banjoes like the rest of the SEC.

Soapbox 6 years, 8 months ago

Mizzou is a non issue! Tuner Gill has become one! Mangino, MAngino, MANgino, MANGino, MANGIno, MANGINo, MANGINGIO!!!!!!!!!!!

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 8 months ago

A mizzou exit will make the big 12 more southern and academically weaker. Does KU really want to be a part of such a big 12? I think not.

kshiker 6 years, 8 months ago

Go post somewhere else you MU troll!

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 8 months ago

Ha! I'm an MU troll? Guess I make too much sense. KU is not my favorite team, but it is my second favorite. MU comes nowhere near the top 20.

I speak from reason and reality, not anger and ignorance.

taucetiman 6 years, 8 months ago

I think the name Big 12 should be dropped, how does Big West sound?

Hammertoe 6 years, 8 months ago

As a Wildcat fan, I caught myself feeling sorry for KU today. Getting crushed at home, having your in-state rival students take over your student section... Can it get any worse? Oh year, your bitter rival moving to a better, more prestigious conference while raking in millions more in revenue.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 8 months ago

Yes, I have also felt sorry for teams, like the wildcats last year against Nebraska. Ugly.

Mark Kostner 6 years, 8 months ago

Missouri is filing for divorce for Kansas, K-State, and those it has played for over a century. This has been going on over a year. Let the attorneys draw up the agreement and let them go. But don't give them anything. Away with the Border Showdown games. They think they're better than us and they've made that quite plain. I watched Ride With The Devil the other day and like the characters in that movie, they can pack their wagon and try their luck elsewhere. When Mizzou starts playing LSU, Ole Miss, the Crimson tide, and the Gators, they're not going to know what hit them. Colorado also thought they were better than us and when they joined the Pac 12 they thought their troubles were over. The Pac schools are mopping the floor with the Buffaloes so far to my delight. So it will be with our other turncoat neighbors. The Big 12 needs to go back to 12--the name Big 10 has been taken--and West Virginia, Louisville, and either BYU or Cincy would make good fits, and if they joined they would want to be in the Big 12 and not looking for the exit constantly. Schools like San Diego State want in. Finally, just how great is Missouri, really, at athletics and not complaining that is?

labmonkey 6 years, 8 months ago

I would rather KU give up sports all together than to ever beg Missouri for anything. I agree with the deadline proposal above... give them a date to sign up for the next 6 years or get out.

Scott Morgan 6 years, 8 months ago

After living all over the Midwest for decades must state I like Mizzu, KU, and K-State. Depending on the coaches I will pull for certain teams.

BTW....I liked Mangino and went to many games. A bit odd I realize, but works for me. Pulling for Self and Snyder now.

I agree Mizzu leaving in no big deal. Nothing wrong with OK City and would be a fun change to see games there. Mizzu will regret this move. After years of Nebraska football pounding the Tiggers one could always find game day tickets in Columbia. Why would LSU/Alabama/ be any different.

adios Mizzu, hope you find players who love heat and humidity.

P Allen Macfarlane 6 years, 8 months ago

I love Dolph's comment: "It’s obvious football and money are the driving forces at MU". Evidently Dolph has been living an some planet other than Earth. If you don't think that it's been all about the money for KU, you are more naive than I would have suspected. Wake up! It's all about money, no matter the school!

ClintYates 6 years, 8 months ago

I know what a sick feeling it must be for Kansas and K-State (and Iowa State) to be left behind by Missouri. I was disappointed when Nebraska and Colorado left the Big 12, but thought at the time that the Big 12 would survive. Even when Texas A&M opted out, I felt that a team such as TCU could take up the slack. But when Texas and Oklahoma sought out the PAC 12 (and they would have taken TT and OS with them), I felt betrayed. When they leave, and they will in the next 4 to 6 years, that would have left Missouri, the Kansas sisters, Iowa State, and Baylor to try and act like they were still in a major conference. Like who were we going to recruit to join the Big 12 conference? Tulsa, Wyoming, Idaho, maybe North Texas State, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Louisiana Lafayette? The one thing that was uppermost in my mind was for Missouri to get into a big boy conference. There will be only 4 of them left after the Big 12 dissolves, or morphs into something like the aforementioned example of associates. Those 4 conferences are the PAC 12, the Big 10, the SEC, and the ACC. Missouri is making the right move. But again, I am just so sorry for the remaining members of the original Big Eight. It was a long run and a lot of fun. I know that Missouri will continue to offer a hand up to Kansas by scheduling them annually in football, so they won't have to go begging to find a game with a member of a big boy conference. I hope that those remaining schools eventually get into at least a mid major conference, like the WAC.

callowax 6 years, 8 months ago

Embarrassed. I don't know who posts on this site but the arrogance is unreal. As a Kansas Alum, I'm not sure you realize how poor the academics at this university have become. And after watching the football team yesterday, basketball is the ONLY sport KU can be proud of. Saying that, I hate Missouri as much as anyone. I was born to hate them. But I would also hate to see them leave. I love the rivalry. Saying that, Missouri, this is not the right move. This is a move you will regret. You will become irrelevant in the SEC. The SEC is southern. You are not. Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Georgia, LSU, Florida and the rest. No one cares about the rest. You will be a member of the rest. I'd be very carefull thinking this will be good for you.

Phone_Man 6 years, 7 months ago

Spoken like a bunch of KU Jerks. May you go down in flames!!!!!

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