Archive for Friday, October 21, 2011

Protesters maintain presence in park

October 21, 2011, 12:32 a.m. Updated October 22, 2011, 12:38 a.m.

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UPDATE:

A smaller contingent of the Occupy Lawrence remained in South Park early Saturday morning. Members of the group said they were planning a rally for noon at the corner of Ninth and Massachusetts streets. It is to be followed by pumpkin carving and an acoustic guitar jam in South Park.

Member Jason Phoenix said he hoped the events would give the group the opportunity to hear from more in the community.

Here's the earlier story:

The Occupy Lawrence camp remains in South Park, technically outside the law but working toward a satisfactory resolution for both the city and the protesters.

Toni Wheeler, the city’s director of the Legal Department, said two representatives from Occupy Lawrence came to her office in City Hall at 8:30 a.m. Thursday to notify her that a “contingent” of Occupy Lawrence members would continue to camp in the park despite a warning from the city that they would be violating a law that prohibits use of the park during overnight hours.

“They weren’t specific about how large the contingent would be,” Wheeler said.

Wheeler said she was in discussions with various city officials to determine what the city’s enforcement strategy will be. Wheeler said she did not anticipate the city taking any enforcement action prior to 11:30 p.m. Thursday, which is closing time for the park.

By city ordinance, Lawrence parks close from 11:30 p.m. to 6 a.m. But late Thursday night, no city personnel arrived to enforce the ordinance, leaving the protesters alone for another night.

Wheeler previously has said the city would have the legal right to remove the campers from the park, but she has stopped short of saying whether that will be the approach the city takes to enforce the law.

Even some observers who are not involved in the protest — an offshoot of a movement that started on Wall Street to protest corporate greed, among other issues — are in solidarity with the local activists.

“Everybody has a right to their opinion, period,” Ben Davis, of Eudora, said early this morning. Davis, who called himself a conservative Catholic, said he disagrees with the politics behind the movement but thinks the protesters should be allowed to stay. On Thursday afternoon, Sgt. Matt Sarna, a Lawrence police spokesman, said the city and police department were “working together to find options and facilitate the protesters’ expression of freedom of speech.”

“The Lawrence Police Department is committed to enforcing the laws and ordinances within the city limits of Lawrence including parks that have set usage hours. This enforcement could include citations, arrests or other types of enforcement actions deemed necessary,” Sarna said. “The City of Lawrence Police Department has no formal timeline on enforcement action at this time and is hoping for a peaceful resolution to the situation.”

At 7 p.m., members of Occupy Lawrence agreed by consensus that those who wished could stay in the park past 11:30 p.m. The group also voted to remove a majority of their camping equipment to a location off site.

Occupy Lawrence member Jason Phoenix proposed a resolution that would see the group leave South Park and occupy other parks for one or two days at a time before moving on.

“It’s not about South Park, it’s about continuing to spark conversation,” Phoenix said.

— reporters Aaron Couch and George Diepenbrock contributed additional information to this story.

Comments

pepper_bar 3 years, 8 months ago

Camping isn't speech. Lawrence needs to enforce its laws.

Hudson Luce 3 years, 8 months ago

Under this logic, neither is sitting down at a lunch counter to have lunch, or riding in the front seats of a bus...

John Kyle 3 years, 8 months ago

Under your logic, the protesters are there to protest lawrence's park laws

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

"Camping isn't speech."

But according to the Supreme Court, money is.

bad_dog 3 years, 8 months ago

Gives all new meaning to the phrase "Money talks..."

SpicePirate 3 years, 8 months ago

Are you seriously comparing these peoples ill-aimed actions to those truely historic events? Those heroes of the civil rights era were actively courting violent/potentially deadly backlash for their actions. These neosocialists don't deserve to be mentioned in in the same breath.

Richie Kennedy 3 years, 8 months ago

Stream's point whizzed 10,000 ft. above your head.

justme2 3 years, 8 months ago

Exactly. People thought Rosa Parks was wasting her time and causing an unnecessary inconvenience. The protestors of the '60's were thought to be a bunch of trouble making hippies who needed to go home and take showers. Who are you people? I am surprised to see so many Lawrence people bad-mouthing the protestors instead of rushing down to South Park to join them! What the hell is wrong with all of you? Maybe you're the 1%, eh? -signed one of the 99%

grammaddy 3 years, 8 months ago

It's never important until it affects you personally. I'm sure people said the same thing about the anti-war movement, civil-rights, women's lib, and every other mnovement that has sparked change.

pace 3 years, 8 months ago

Of course they are compared to those heroes, They are Heroes of the economic war. Teas argue that people shouldn't stand up for their economic and civil rights. That robbing 99% of economic equality isn't important as discrimination on race or religion. In many cases it is a continuation of that discrimination. You are claiming robbing the 99% good? Theft good? Economic law should be the same for every citizens. One law for the wealthiest, no law for the 99%. That is destroying our country, our economy, our homes, our families, our education system, our future. You have the right to stand up for the money lenders, to believe the trickle down theory hasn't turned into a fatal dust storm, that the Bush tax cuts have worked. You have the right to believe all that, but since you are wrong, we have the duty to fight that stupidity before it ruins our country.

NO, stand up, occupy.

Armored_One 3 years, 8 months ago

Heroes of the economic war.

Really?

I might have missed the press releases, but no dogs have been used against the protestors, nor have fire hoses or batons.

I love how taxing the rich is supposedly going to save this country, despite the fact that they are not, despite erroneous rumors to the contrary, the ones passing spending bills, voting for pay raises for themselves despite the economy being in the porcelin throne or any of the other myriad things CONGRESS is responsible for accomplishing.

If this Occupy movement was actually occupying something truly poignant to their ideology and/or demands, say the Capital building, I'd be a damned sight more willing to not onl lend them credence but also support.

Squatting in the park is brain dead. Even the fools in New York at least picked a spot that would actually inspire some dialogue. South Park is the best these lawn chair jockies could think up?

deec 3 years, 8 months ago

The Lawrence Occupiers are doing so in support of Occupiers worldwide, where people have had hoses and batons used on them. Just today in Melbourne, dogs and horses were used to break up the Occupy site. It is a worldwide movement, all locations in solidarity with all other locations. It isn't just about Obama; the corruption of government by corporate influence is a worldwide phenomena, and thus there is a worldwide response. If and when that level of violence happens in Lawrence, will the local group then qualify as heroes?

Armored_One 3 years, 8 months ago

Again, another fool that seems to think that the Occupy movement even approaches the levels of heroism that protestors during the Civil Rights movement acheived.

Not a single police attack has occured within the US. I care less than not at all about Australia, or basically any country in Europe. Why you might ask? It's a pretty simple answer.

Nothing they demand will alter so much as a question mark in anything legal in the United States, and vice versa. Did the protests in Tiananmen Square affect any actual policies in teh United States? Not one blasted iota, so this whole solidarity concept is, at absolute best, laughable.

Again, I ask why are you demanding corporations change when what they are doing is legal?

If a politician doesn't do what his/her constituents demand, then replace them. It's a pretty simple solution. Doesn't require protests or anything else.

You want to cure the problem, cure the apathy. Otherwise, you keep making useless gestures and scream in a sound-proofed room.

Despite claims to the contrary, business owners do NOT sign their names on legislation. You're argument is that the laws need to change. Why are you not occupying the Capital building? Why are you not starting petitions to remove sitting members of Congress to replace them with people that will do as you are demanding?

I'd venture a guess to those questions.

It'd be too much work. It's much less taxing, pun intended, to sit around and pretend that you are making a statement than to actually stand up and make one.

That is why the Occupy movement is a joke and will continue to be one. Grow a pair and actually do something or continue to be mocked by those that are willing to actually look at a problem and see the actual way to correct it.

When only 10-20% of a nation votes, do you really think anything changes?

Go sit in the park. Hold up your signs in front of the bank. Until you get rid of the politicians that are PASSING the laws, nothing will change. It is that pure and simple.

Now go have a cookie and go outside and play with the rest of the ankle biters while the grown ups actually try to accomplish something.

deec 3 years, 8 months ago

Actually there have been numerous police attacks in New York. Boston beast veterans defending the Occupiers. These are well documented. Attcjs in other countries are just as important as attacks here.

Armored_One 3 years, 8 months ago

Well, at least the Occupy feebles are providing some entertainment for the evil police.

SpicePirate 3 years, 8 months ago

As of 4a.m. the squaters were still in the park. If the local Police do not enforse the law, as well as the official ultimatum, they make a mockery of the ones they do chose to enforce. You either enforce them all equally or they mean nothing.

Randall Barnes 3 years, 8 months ago

“The Lawrence Police Department is committed to enforcing the laws and ordinances within the city limits of Lawrence including parks that have set usage hours. This enforcement could include citations, arrests or other types of enforcement actions deemed necessary,” Sarna said. “The City of Lawrence Police Department has no formal timeline on enforcement action at this time and is hoping for a peaceful resolution to the situation.”

what about j- walking ????????? never enforced. enforce all laws or none at all.

fu7il3 3 years, 8 months ago

Yeah, damn them for enforcing that pesky murder law. If they don't prosecute jaywalking, all rapists should go free.

lawrencenerd 3 years, 8 months ago

Don't most of the rapists go free already? I live near the student ghetto and I rarely see cops patrolling the area at night. Occasionally they'll swing through around noon or something, when nothing is going on. On a game day or a Friday or Saturday night? There are people wandering in the streets drinking, smashing bottles, vandalizing properties, and finding drunk girls to rape, and not a cop to be seen.

BlackVelvet 3 years, 8 months ago

And do you just sit and watch the rapes occur, or do you at least pick up a telephone. Perhaps the cops are responding to other trouble spots. They can't be in all places at once.

Pastor_Bedtime 3 years, 8 months ago

It's a shame these folks cannot put their efforts into something constructive to actually help others, rather than sitting on their butts.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

That is what they are doing. They are putting their effort into promoting social change.

Jeteras 3 years, 8 months ago

? wtf are you talking about. social change,, goto starbucks if you want social change

sun45kiss 3 years, 8 months ago

If they want social change go to the White House and protest !! and stop turning our city into a grudge dumpster for socialist idiots

deec 3 years, 8 months ago

There is an Occupy group in Washington D.C. There are also groups in 2174 other cities worldwide on six continents. The Occupy movement is aware that both the government and corporations are in collusion. The corruption in Washington did not begin the day Obama was elected, although he is just as culpable as his immediate predecessor. The Tea Party movement was begun by people angry about the second bailout (interestingly, they weren't particularly riled about the first one in October 2008). The bailouts are one of the major rallying point for the Occupy movement. Hence the slogan "Banks got bailed out, we got sold out."

BruceWayne 3 years, 8 months ago

I think Core-less should have to go down there and make them leave. If the city really wants them gone send over Officer Troy...leave or die!

pace 3 years, 8 months ago

I think Corlis, preachers,police, firepersons, janitors, faculty, retired, families, should make a sign and stand in front of banks, parks, in front of the own homes, if they still have one. Until $ongress / $enate, recognize that economic equality is more important than business as usual.

pace 3 years, 8 months ago

I think Corlis, preachers,police, firepersons, janitors, faculty, retired, families, should make a sign and stand in front of banks, parks, in front of the own homes, if they still have one. Until $ongress / $enate, recognize that economic equality is more important than business as usual.

Ken Lassman 3 years, 8 months ago

Hey, folks, wake up and look around.

This is not about South Park in Lawrence, Kansas.

There are over 2000 towns, villages and cities all over the planet who are participating in this. Many are a few folks in small towns, getting together to discuss the issues and registering their groups at http://www.meetup.com/occupytogether/ .

This includes places like Gardner, Olathe and Shawnee in Kansas. And Ada, Oklahoma. And Kearney, Hastings, Gretna Nebraska. And Rolla, Jeff City in Missouri.

Then there are the groups who have formed and are occupying public space, not to violate laws, but to create public forums for civil discussion, This is not a conspiracy funded by George Soros with a bucket of money and a point by point self serving agenda. It is primarily a heartfelt response to a plea by the original Occupy Wall Street group, which formed a General Assembly a few weeks ago and suggested that folks create forums in their own communities, in public spaces that everyone had access to. This is as egalitarian of a movement as we'll likely see in our lifetime, despite the paranoid who will see a host of puppetmasters of their own making behind it all.

This next level of organization has happened. In 231 cities, Lawrence being just one of them. It also includes Kansas City. It includes Topeka. It includes Oklahoma City. Columbia, Missouri and Lincoln, NE have groups--not sure if they have a public occupation yet or not.

Like it or not, it is a historic movement of global proportions. Criticize it if you like, join it if you like. But place the Lawrence Occupation in the context of a global movement that is growing and not going away anytime soon.

Ken Lassman 3 years, 8 months ago

Hardly. Just because you don't care to understand doesn't mean it's not significant, historic and much more widespread than you seem willing to admit.

Fortunately, history doesn't depend on the uncritical naysayers such as yourself. Ask any young person whether they think these are not important issues that are not being addressed, and whether they think their future is screwed if something isn't done.

You just might be surprised.

grammaddy 3 years, 8 months ago

Some people are too stupid to realize that they, too, are part of the 99%.Get involved,make a difference.

ceccarp 3 years, 8 months ago

Oh sure, make it just about the illegal camping. Don't pay attention the the broader picture. If it was a group of Tea Partiers would you be fighting for their right to peaceably assemble? Or would you still be spouting your "throw the bums out" attitude??

lunacydetector 3 years, 8 months ago

the vocal minority loons rule the roost, as usual. if this was the tea party, arrests would've been made.

Vaildini 3 years, 8 months ago

Its not those wackos.......they are at work. ;)

ceccarp 3 years, 8 months ago

Arresting us would just add fuel to the cause. Don't you know that to be arrested for protesting is a Badge of Honor for protesters?? At least in this country. How many times was Martin Luther King arrested?? Did it end his cause?? Nope!!

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

That is because they'd be toting guns and ranting about black helicopters.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

Only in response to overgeneralized rhetoric.

The Tea party had a rally with assault rifles and no one got arrested. I was responding in-kind to lunacydetector's post.

hujiko 3 years, 8 months ago

"the vocal minority loons rule the roost, as usual."

Kinda like you and the rest of your inflammatory/alarmist cronies here on the LJW?

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

I remember the police making an exception for me when I was a kid.

Got busted at Martin park with my girlfriend. We were in the back seat.....talking......and there was a 6 pack of beer on the front seat.

He emptied the beer containers, waited for us to get adjusted and sent us home.

Helped that we hadn't started on the beer yet.

So, yeah, cops need to use their best judgement on when it is important to enforce the law and when it is okay to let folks speed a little.

pepper_bar 3 years, 8 months ago

Too bad you didn't get caught at South Park in 2011. The officer surely would have let you keep your beer and otherwise left you to your romantic evening.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

I don't know how romantic it was, but it was fun until interrupted :)

The officer did let us go. He could have charged us with Minor In Possession, taken her to her parents, taken me to my parents, towed the car and in general made our lives hell for a couple weeks.

His restraint was both appreciated and appropriate.

You don't need to enforce the law 100% all of the time. You need to know where to let out some slack. I trust our local police to make appropriate decisions in this regard. For the most part, they do a good job of it.

Policing a town full of college kids is a challenge. I think they strike a nice balance.

No one was yelling for them to enforce the liquor laws when we won the NCAA a few years ago. This protest falls in the same category. Though not as large locally, the global movement is pretty significant, and should be respected.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

I suppose the interesting question is whether this occupation of the park is in fact an expression of 1st amendment rights, and if so, when city codes like closing the park at night, conflict with that, what should happen?

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

That column suggests that the city has the right to restrict occupation of the park.

The SC case quoted is one in which rules doing something similar were upheld, even though the protest may be an expression of 1st amendment rights.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

Like I said. Sort of. The Supreme court ruled that it is speech, but then argued their way out of the dead end and said it could be regulated.

Interesting: My corporation can spend as much money as it wants because money is speech. You can't regulate it even if it is in the public good.

I can't assemble with friends overnight in a park as a form of protest. You can regulate it because it is in the public good.

The first item allows corporations to effectively buy elections.

The second would have homeless folks sleeping in the park.

Hmmmm....which outcome has more impact on the public good?

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

I agree - there is certainly a good argument that regulating corporate spending is a reasonable restriction on speech that is in the public interest.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

That's a good, and interesting question.

We'd have to go into much more depth to determine where restrictions, and what kind of them would be appropriate, and what public good is being served by doing so.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

The problem is with corporations.

Corporations have been declared "legal persons", but they aren't in fact people, or even a collection of people acting to pursue common expressive aims, like the NRA, NOW, etc.

Thus, firstly, it seems to me that they are not in fact entitled to 1st amendment rights.

Second, even if it's been decided they are (which I disagree with), that doesn't mean those rights are absolute, any more than they are with individuals.

So, it seems eminently reasonable to me that if their exercise of those rights causes harm, and the limitation of them would prevent that harm, that can/should be considered.

Does political TV advertising sponsored by corporations cause harm? I'd say the answer is yes, given the vastly manipulative and effective nature of TV advertising. Companies routinely convince people to buy their products, and spend significantly more than store brand products (often identical in content), through the use of advertising. So, corporate advertising in politics is essentially "selling" a candidate.

So, I don't have a problem suggesting that it should be limited/prevented.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

The aim of making a profit is not the same thing as a "common expressive aim" of advocating for gun rights, for example.

That's exactly the point - the NRA exists as a sort of "collective voice" of it's members, and thus it's advocacy is an expression of their individual right to speech, and an extension of it.

I gave an example of why I think it's harmful.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

I think that news organizations gain their right from the guarantee of freedom of the press.

It's not an extension of individual rights to speech, practiced by a corporation.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

I'm not sure that's true - there are a number of rights mentioned in the 1st amendment, and they're not all the same thing.

Speech, the press, assembly, religion, and petitioning the government are all covered in it.

Although you may be right, that freedom of the press is an extension of the right to free speech.

I gave you an example - why do you choose not to respond to it?

A TV ad that effectively and manipulatively sells a candidate is one example of how this sort of thing harms us.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

Yes - this is my opinion, which I am as entitled to as you are to yours - and I don't insult you for yours, even though I think it's incorrect. If you can't manage to stop the insults, I will stop talking with you - I find it distasteful to be insulted.

If we banned all political advertising, it wouldn't help any one group or agenda over another. I never advocated for the government to make any sort of decision as you discuss.

I disagree - I think that not allowing corporations to spend unlimited amounts of money on political ads would be better than what we've got.

And, 4 SC Justices agreed with me, while 5 agreed with you - it's hardly a settled issue. Many constitutional scholars agree with my view.

The harm is similar to the harm that advertising does to people it convinces to spend 3-4x/much for a name brand product sitting next to an identical store brand product.

That people are convinced one is superior to the other, and convinced they need to spend more money for the name brand product is frightening.

It's easy to see how that translates into political advertising - viewers can easily be convinced of things that are simply not true, and base their decisions on that misperception.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

Or, of course, we could grant constitutional rights to those who should rightly get them, ie. people and groups of people united in groups to pursue common expressive aims, or other protected rights.

But not to corporations, which don't deserve constitutional rights, as a "legal fiction" of a separate individual which doesn't exist.

Justice Stevens, I believe said something like "Corporations are not members of we the people, by and for whom our constitution was written".

ceccarp 3 years, 8 months ago

News organizations fall under the Freedom of the Press whether or not they are a corporation.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

Yes, and there may be a similar problem with corporate ownership of media outlets.

conservative 3 years, 8 months ago

Comparing the occupy lawrence campout to civil rights watershed moments is ridiculous, those people understood exactly what they were standing up (or sitting down) for. This group has no agenda other than they think there may be things they want to change. The ows group at least has a mission and can tell you what they are upset about. They have no true understanding of reality and an ill conceived sense of entitlement, but they do know what they stand for.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

So Rosa Parks knew all of the specific policy changes she was advocating for when she sat down on the bus? Or was she just so pissed off that she wasn't going to take it any more?

Give them time. They will find a voice.

The 1% transaction tax is a good idea. Maybe they will take that idea forward.

Haiku_Cuckoo 3 years, 8 months ago

Yes, of course she knew the policy she wanted to change. Her objective was to boycott the bus until the city allowed black riders to sit where they please. It worked because she had a specific goal.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

Actually, Ms. Parks is on record as having said she was just tired.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

History always looks narrative in hind site. As things unfold it looks chaotic.

This movement will be part of our historic narrative. Maybe a big item, maybe a footnote.

The point is, we don't know what it will be. Lets wait and see.

Ceallach 3 years, 8 months ago

"historic narrative"

That thought answers the question of whether or not there is drug use in the "camp."

OMG

ceccarp 3 years, 8 months ago

Oh, somebody uses a phrase you think is silly and all of a sudden you think there is drug use????? What have you been smoking???

ceccarp 3 years, 8 months ago

No, Rosa Parks' objective was just to sit down because she was tired after a long day's work. She didn't give up her seat because of that simple reason, no other. She stated this many times in interviews. The bus boycotts started because of the bus driver's response to her not giving up her seat.

gl0ck0wn3r 3 years, 8 months ago

"The 1% transaction tax is a good idea. Maybe they will take that idea forward."

Why is it a good idea?

Ken Lassman 3 years, 8 months ago

What do you mean that they don't know what they are standing up or sitting down for? Why don't you go down and ask? Their only sin, and it really is not a sin at all, is for not having a pre-packaged solution to the ills of the world we live in. They have a very well developed sense as to what they are wanting to address: the system is serving the 1% at the expense of the other 99%.

And if you are too lazy to go down to discuss things with them face to face, then I recommend that you go to the www.occupylawrence.wordpress.com website they have set up and read the New York GA Consensus statement to see what ills they are interested in discussing.

You may agree or disagree with all, part or none of their grievances, but in my opinion, your sitting back in your armchair and critiquing in such an uniformed manner is the kind of entitlement that has gotten our country into the state that it is currently in.

progressive_thinker 3 years, 8 months ago

I have to agree with you DougCounty. This group appears to understand that the wealthy 1% of the United States has taken control of 100% of our government, and is in the process of bankrupting our society. Unfortunately, a considerable portion of the US population is still buying the propaganda that supports this situation.

Finding a practical course of action to return the power of the government to 100% of the people will take time.

gl0ck0wn3r 3 years, 8 months ago

I'm curious... exactly when did the 1% take control of 100% of the government? It seems to me that plenty of people are elected in both local and national elections that are less friendly to the supposed desires of the 1%. Doesn't it stand to reason that if the 1% controlled the government that McCain would have won the last presidential election? I suppose one could make an argument that Obama has not been as harsh on the 1% as some would like but is that because he doesn't want to be as harsh or isn't able to be as harsh?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

Obama got at least as much in donations from the one percent as he did the 99%. Does that affect your worship of the elites in any way?

conservative 3 years, 8 months ago

Not too lazy, but after reading them state for the record they didn't really know what they wanted but were sure there were changes they would like to see it was quite obvious this is just a group of wannabe's who jumped on a national bandwagon that they don't really understand.

ceccarp 3 years, 8 months ago

Occupy Lawrence is in solidarity with the Occupy Wall Street movement. Just because they are not articulated into sound bites does not mean we don't know what we are here for. Come on down and start a dialogue with us and find out.

vuduchyld 3 years, 8 months ago

I’m talkin Power to the people, but don't be so uptight It's not criminal violence I'm trying to incite But if you don't see a problem then you don't know where to look check your federal reserve appointed-politician-crook interest-free bailout loans but only wealthy need apply So for the other 99% it's time to OCCUPY!

(Smash It Grab It OCCUPY...the video!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8XE4CdNYEs

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

When you talk about the Federal Reserve, you sound crazed.

Monetary policy isn't the problem here. Lack of regulation, Corporations with human "rights", regressive taxation....all of these are real problems.

The Federal Reserve system is likely not the best system, except it is better than all the others.

You can address regulatory problems, you can strip corporations of their "rights" and you can fix the taxation system. I doubt you can come up with a cohesive monetary system that creates more general prosperity than the current Federal Reserve system.

If you can, please do, we can use Nobel Prize winning economists here in Kansas, but if not, focus on the problems that can be solved.

vuduchyld 3 years, 8 months ago

In the context of a very short, two-line couplet, the reference to the Fed was pretty specifically regarding their massive back-door bailout...you're familiar with it, I'm sure.

I could write an essay about it or I could refer you to articles written by Senator Bernie Sanders, but honestly, if you're interested, you probably already know about it.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

Sorry, it just looks crazed to me. The Fed doesn't really play into politics, they don't appoint anyone, least of all politicians.

Anyone who keeps up with monetary policy knows that the bail out was necessary to avoid a crisis.

The crime is that we didn't liquidate the banks once the trouble was over. We had the opportunity to nationalize them and melt them down, but instead we left the same folks in charge.

We also failed to pass significant reforms of the financial system. The Dodd - Frank Act is pathetic when compared to the size of the problem.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

No 1% are posting.

The folks posting are their minions.

Fox News watching, non-thinking "conservatives" who don't have enough brains in their heads to realize that the current system is busy making them poor.

They are clinging to their guns and their religion in the hopes that it will save them from globalization. It won't.

Wake up. Read. Learn. Stop watching Fox News.

kernal 3 years, 8 months ago

Actually, watching Faux News can sometimes be a good thing, kind of like the old saying about keeping your friends close, but your enemies closer, but in the case of Faux News, keep them at arm's length.

Once in a while, Bill Reilly surprises us.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

As if you are really capable of making any choice that isn't spoon-fed to you.

Armored_One 3 years, 8 months ago

I don't think in my lifetime that I have watched an entire hour of Fox News, and that is if you added all the times I've flipped past it together.

I know the system is broken. It's been broken for a couple of decades now.

I also possess exactly 0 firearms and the last time I was in a place of worship, I was attending my grandmother's funeral over a year ago. In the last decade, I've gone to a church a grand total of 5 times, and I think that might be exaggerating.

Any other broad-based accusations you'd care to make so I can proverbially blow holes in them?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

What's your point? That stupid conclusions can be arrived at independently?

WaxAndWane 3 years, 8 months ago

Protesters want to be arrested so they can post vids on YouTube and brag about it later. Good for the LPD for not taking the bait.

Haiku_Cuckoo 3 years, 8 months ago

Can anyone name one tangible goal of the protests? "Sparking conversation" and "raising awareness" does nothing. I can spark conversations and raise awareness about the starvation in Somalia but that doesn't feed anyone. Do any of the protesters have an action plan? What specifically needs to happen and, more importantly, what is the protesters' plan for getting it done? Anyone?

Ken Lassman 3 years, 8 months ago

If sparking conversation does nothing, they why did you post? How do you know what the occupy lawrence folks are planning? How do you know that they aren't already planning local efforts to improve our community? During the General Assembly meeting that I attended, out of curiosity, there was quite a bit of discussion about being more than just a protest group, but actually becoming part of our community's solutions, and addressing local issues.

And as far as an action plan, there are daily meetings every day at 6pm with an open agenda that you or anyone else can add to. They are not taking orders from above, or representing any political party, or otherwise. They see the corruption of the current system and want very little to do with much of it, so are modeling a kind of direct democracy approach, which is to mean that you can go down and bring a proposal with you, add it to the agenda, and if you can convince enough people to consense to it, they'll take it on.

But don't expect them to drop everything they are doing to jump to do your pet project. This type of organizing takes time, energy and commitment.

Does that help?

Haiku_Cuckoo 3 years, 8 months ago

Thanks for taking the time to explain. Is that list and agenda posted online somewhere? If so, maybe more members of the community can see it and help act upon it. I admire the passion behind the movement but was frustrated because I perceived a lack of direction; kind of like a 500 horsepower boat with no rudder. Your explanation helped. Thanks.

Ken Lassman 3 years, 8 months ago

From what I saw, the agenda is posted on an erasable board and/or a flip chart in the park. I got the impression that it could be added to at the beginning of the meeting. If anything is posted ahead of time online, it would probably be at the www.occupylawrence.worpress.com website. Don't think it has happened that way yet, but doesn't mean that it couldn't.

In fact, if you added that to the agenda for one of their daily General Assembly meetings at 6pm and volunteered to do it, they'd probably go for it.

ceccarp 3 years, 8 months ago

At this point there is no agenda posted online. That's not because it's a big secret. It's because we often don't have items for the agenda until just before the General Assembly begins. It's a very fluid process. Add to that the fact that we haven't had a clear internet signal in the park until Thurs, Oct 21st, which made posting anything impossible.

Before every meeting will volunteer to facilitate the meeting and one or two others will volunteer to be the moderators who keep track of those who have raised their hands to make statements, ask questions, or make points of process. The facilitator then explains the hand signals we use during the meeting so that everyone, especially newcomers, knows how to get their voice heard. Then there are usually reports from our Legal Liaison and the various work groups that have been established. During these reports a question or an issue will often arise that warrants discussion. During the discussion there may be a call for a temperature check to make sure we are all understanding the discussion, if there needs to be more clarification, or if the discussion needs to be tabled.

At any point in the discussion someone can make a proposal which is then discussed and then voted on. The proposal will only pass if there is unanimous consensus. If anyone cannot support the proposal it is not passed and there is either more discussion on it or it is tabled. We do not follow Majority Rule.

A Point of Process is when a someone asks for or gives clarification on the discussion at the moment.

For Example, if we were deciding we wanted to string some lights, one person could signal Point of Process to ask if we had any extension cords and another could signal Point of Process to let everyone know that yes, we had plenty of extension cords.

That's the process. It's pretty simple and one that makes sure everyone's voice is heard.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

I believe a main goal of these protesters is to address the corrupting link between money/corporations and our government, which has polluted and perverted our system so that it doesn't function as it's supposed to function.

How to solve that problem is a very difficult question, given the recent (5-4) SC decision Citizens United, which extends the ability to corporations (and unions) to spend unlimited amounts of money on political advertising.

Perhaps if you agree that the above is a problem, you could think about how best to solve it and share your ideas with us.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

"How to solve that problem is a very difficult question, given the recent (5-4) SC decision Citizens United, which extends the ability to corporations (and unions) to spend unlimited amounts of money on political advertising."

And the inclusion of unions in this ruling was extremely cynical, given the all-out war against unions from the corporate right. I'm sure the expectation is that unions would continue to be marginalized over the next few years, so that the effective result of Citizens United would be to give corporate interests complete control over the financing of political campaigns, and thus the government.

deec 3 years, 8 months ago

Here is one list of proposed demands, which has not been officially approved, but does give an idea about the sorts of solutions being considered: http://coupmedia.org/occupywallstreet/occupy-wall-street-official-demands-2009

Hudson Luce 3 years, 8 months ago

Here are some of the problems they're looking at, and some proposed solutions:

  1. Legislation is written by corporate lobbyists and is introduced, carried, and advocated for by members of Congressmen who are financially tied to those corporations, where the legislation and regulations arising therefrom advance the corporations' interests over those of the people; [Make this practice a felony for the lobbyists/corps and an impeachable offense for the legislators and create a private right of enforcement.]

  2. Legislators accept large campaign contributions in many ways from corporations and high net worth individuals, and tend to grant direct access and be influenced by them, and give others only indirect access and very little influence; [Make this practice a felony for the lobbyists/corps and an impeachable offense for the legislators and create a private right of enforcement.]

  3. Legislators accept high-paying jobs with the corporations which they support and work for during their terms in office, or go to work as lobbyists for them after their term in office is over; [Make this practice a felony for the legislators and corps and create a private right of enforcement.]

  4. Judges make decisions in favor of corporations and high net worth individuals which benefit those entities at the expense of the taxpayer - and then resign and go to work for those same corporations: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27059 [Make it a felony for judges to do this for 10 years after they resign as judges, and prohibit them from direct or indirect employment by those corps or entities for whom they made favorable decisions]

  5. Student loans have been made non-dischargeable in bankruptcy - a law written by the lenders who stood to benefit hugely by it, and introduced and carried by bought-off Congressmen: Collinge, Alan. The student loan scam : the most oppressive debt in U.S. history, and how we can fight back. Boston, MA : Beacon Press, c2009. ISBN 9780807042298 http://lccn.loc.gov/200801223 [Repeal the laws making student loans undischargeable in bankruptcy, and prosecute lenders and schools which have participated in kickback schemes and other forms of collusion under the RICO laws.]

(continued in next post)

Hudson Luce 3 years, 8 months ago

  1. Makers of fraudulent mortgages have remained un-indicted and un-prosecuted despite large amounts of evidence showing that they committed fraud, and they continue to benefit by their wrongdoing due to collusion by the government in these schemes: http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/10/lenders-put-lies-in-liars-loans-and.html [Can be fixed by investigating, indicting, and prosecuting people and corporations (under the RICO laws) engaging in those transactions - my suggestion is to appoint William Black () to do this.]

  2. Regulatory agencies are “captured” by the corporations they are supposed to regulate, and corporate lobbyists and executives are appointed to agency jobs - or agency heads are given corporate positions after a long history of making decisions which favor the regulated corporations: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124580461065744913.html
 [Can be fixed by legislation making it a felony for corps to hire agency people earlier than 8 years after their retirement/resignation and making it an impeachable offense to appoint corporate people to agency jobs, and giving a private right of enforcement to the people.]

  3. The doctrine of “corporate personhood” and judicial decisions, such as Citizens United, based on it should be legislatively overturned: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125314088285517643.html [Can be fixed by appropriate legislation.]

This list is not exhaustive or complete, but it’s a start.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

Those are all interesting, and good points/problems you point out.

What exactly is the "private right of enforcement"?

And, although Justice Sotomayor and others disagreed with the CU decision, they didn't advocate for legislative overturning of SC decisions - that seems to lead to an odd problem - the SC rules something unconstitutional, then the legislature overturns that, and the SC rules it unconstitutional, etc.

Why do you think the legislature should have the power to overturn SC decisions? Doesn't that give that branch too much power, and cut into the independence of the judicial branch?

Hudson Luce 3 years, 8 months ago

The representatives write the laws, the courts interpret them and enforce them, and the legislature corrects the interpretation. Simple. No conflict.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

That doesn't really answer the question.

If the courts are the venue for interpreting laws, why have the legislative branch "correct" those interpretations?

deec 3 years, 8 months ago

It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion. "On your right to disagree “In a free and republican government, you cannot restrain the voice of the multitude; every man will speak as he thinks, or more properly without thinking.” George Washington The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me. Who works for whom? “I consider the people who constitute a society or a nation as the source of all authority in that nation.” Thomas Jefferson" http://the912-project.com/about/the-9-principles-12-values/

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

Thanks.

In that, it's in fact the SC that decides when there is an implied right of private enforcement.

But, above, you want to transfer the correct interpretation of things to the legislative branch.

Hudson Luce 3 years, 8 months ago

case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London#State_legislation_following_Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

"Prior to Kelo only eight states specifically prohibited the use of eminent domain for economic development except to eliminate blight: Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Maine, Montana, South Carolina and Washington.[31] By July 2007, 42 states had enacted some type of reform legislation in response to the Kelo decision. Of those 42 states, 21 enacted laws that severely inhibited the takings allowed by the Kelo decision, while the rest enacted laws that place some limits on the power of municipalities to invoke eminent domain for economic development."

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

You're mixing things up there.

That's an interesting case, for sure.

The SC ruled that economic benefits to the community were acceptable under the "public use" provision of eminent domain laws.

Then some states made laws to limit that sort of use in their states - they didn't, however, overturn the SC decision in any way.

This is the sort of back and forth that is intended, I think, by the balance of powers between the judiciary and the legislature.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

Their goals are to spark conversation and raise awareness.

First comes anger, then comes discussion, then comes planning, then comes action.

We are in step 2.

Jeteras 3 years, 8 months ago

please define "Action" are there not enough rebel groups in the world? what are you going to do walk around with AK's ? come on people.. be glad you live in the U.S. and not it Somolia for crying out loud

Ken Lassman 3 years, 8 months ago

Decisions are made using consensus. Something tells me that someone would block the suggestion to use AK47s to accomplish any of the agreed upon goals.

ceccarp 3 years, 8 months ago

Taking action in this context simply means finding a way to implement the result of the discussion and the planning.

Why are you assuming that "action" is something that comes only from the barrel of a gun?? Have we reached a point in today's culture that "Action" is only defined as something that is violent???? That's sad!!

dontsheep 3 years, 8 months ago

Since you seem to have the answer for all things Occupy. I'm curious about a few things.

How did this movement start? Going from 1 city to the globe in 1 week or 2 is pretty amazing and makes me think someone/thing is organizing and coordinating.

Who is paying for the larger, coordinated effort? What is their agenda?

Do the violent protests in Europe indicate what's to come in the US? Those protests used to look like the occupy ones here.

If you were to plan a global economic collapse, how long would it take between the corrupt system you are against and the new system to be created? What would the consequences be in the interim? Would people die?

What would the next system be? How would it be structured? Who would be in control? How would justice be handled?

Why are radical progressives, racists, Nazis, and fundamentalist Islamic groups joining forces under this movement? What is their goal?

If I attempted to post these questions, and many others to the occupy blog, would they be allowed to post? Would someone answer them? If no, why not?

lawrencenerd 3 years, 8 months ago

I'd like to see your citation that racists, nazis and fundamentalist muslims are joining forces under this movement.

lawrencenerd 3 years, 8 months ago

Yeah, still see no evidence that they are "joining forces" at all. The anp is saying go protest because all those rich bankers are jews, and cair is saying it wants to fight for politcal and economic equality. In case you are confused, those aren't the same thing, and they aren't at all "joining forces" but simply jumping on a bandwagon that they think could further their own agendas.

OWS has nothing to do with race or religion.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

Okay, I'll answer.

Who is paying for the larger, coordinated effort? - Mostly this is being coordinated through social media, which is still an unprofitable enterprise. The Venture Capital groups in Silicon Valley are therefor still paying the bills.

What is their agenda? To make money.

Do the violent protests in Eurpoe indicated what's to come to the US? - Maybe. It could happen if all of a sudden the Feds slashed Social Security and Medicare, but likely not. The difference is that, for now, the Dollar is the reserve currency for the world. This means when times get bad, people flock to lend the US money. The problem in Europe is different. Greece can't borrow any more money and, because of the Euro, they can't default either. The result is severe austerity measures, which are sparking protests.

If you were to plan a.........new system to be created? In terms of a planned collapse, it would likely take a while to put together a new system. The book "This Time Is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly " has a lot of great historical examples. I am unaware of anyone planning a financial collapse, except, perhapse the Republican party. I don't believe this is intentional, their policies are just stupid and short sighted and, if implemented, would result in a slow decline for America.

What would be consequences be in the interim? Starvation, violence, land grabs, poverty and a large economic depression. See: United States 1927 to 1941.

Would people die? Yes.

What would the next system be? How would it be structured? Don't know.

Who would be in control? Likely the rich and powerful. It usually happens that way.

How would justice be handled? I don't think the judicial system is a target of these protests. I imagine it will continue to evolve slowly over time as it has since the 13th century. Lawyers are a slow moving breed.

Why are radical progressives, racists, Nazis, and fundamentalist Islamic groups joining forces under this movement? - They are not. This is fiction being put forward by the powerful. Quadaffi said the same thing about the rebels. You are watching too much Fox News.

What is their goal? - The overall goal of the movement is to promote social change and reduce inequality in our society.

If I attempted to post these questions, and many others to the occupy blog, would they be allowed to post? Would someone answer them? If no, why not? - I don't know about their blog. It is all techy and stuff. You might try and ask them directly.

dontsheep 3 years, 8 months ago

Venture capitalists don't invest in non-profit organizations. That's not who is behind this. Look at adbusters, Tides, Code Pink and George Soros. All the arrows point to Soros. He is absolutely in this to make money ($7B last year wasn't enough) and to collapse the country. Read about him.

Read the signs. The majority of people want the economy to collapse. They say it themselves. What else do you think will happen by taking down the banks, overrunning the police and targeting CEOs of major corporations?

How many deaths are acceptable? Will you be one of them?

If you don't know what the next structure would be, is it OK to collapse this one first?

Are the rich and powerful who would take over better than the current rich and powerful? Why do you think it will be better? If the current degradation happening at these events is any indication, I'm worried. Germany thought the same thing and voted in Hitler to help control the chaos. Only after he was elected did they go "oh crap...maybe we should have thought this through."

See my link in the post above yours. Those groups are absolutely in the movement. Maybe not at S.Park...but in the legit organizations they are. Wake up.

Ken Lassman 3 years, 8 months ago

Don't know if you are very serious with your questions, but it's my sense that some of your questions are wanting more information about the movement and part of them are more asking for predictions. So FWIW, here are my observations.

The global movement (over 2000 towns and cities worldwide, mostly local study groups, but over 200 active occupations in towns across the US) is a social network phenomenon, which is very decentralized and akin to what has been going on in the Middle East, among other places. While conspiracies theories abound, there is no credible evidence that I've seen that there is some kind of grand puppetmaster pulling the strings.

Go to the Occupy Wall Street website if you want to see what they are proposing. Last time I checked, there was some discussion about having a 3 month long extended alternative congress in Philadelphia of some sort, inviting local groups to participate to see if there could develop some national consensus from all of the disparate groups.

I don't sense that violence is part of the agenda, certainly in Lawrence it isn't.

I don't think there is much interest in huge global solutions that would be somehow built and switched out, kind of like changing a tire. The idea that that's how things work is pretty ludicrous if you think about it. I think there is much more interest in developing networks of local self reliance in terms of economic activity, food, energy, etc. where folks are not at the mercy of corporate decisions that can make or break their livelihoods from afar.

Self control/reliance is actually a pretty universal goal, and I think it appeals across the entire spectrum of political and religious beliefs.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

Action can be passing legislation, electing candidates, increasing voter rolls.

To be effective in the United States, the action should be legally sanctioned. Even the Civil War was legally sanctioned by both Washington (sanctioned the blue) and Richmond (sanctioned the grey).

The "action" will likely take place in the ballot box.

Austerity 3 years, 8 months ago

I think this group has every right to protest, but needs to go through the proper channels and obtain a permit. They should be forced to leave until that time. What am I missing?

Phone_Man 3 years, 8 months ago

The Good part of your post is K-State fans are coming to town. Perhaps they will add a little class to Larryville.

patgilbey1 3 years, 8 months ago

What great conversation is being sparked by a small group of campers with no specific agenda. This shows how much Lawrence residents care about their community. I hope everyone will take advantage of this new found energy and do something constructive.

To everyone of us (commoners,surfs, and peasants): The "Man" has been sticking it to us since the beginning of time. Let's move on past entitlement and find our own "American Dream" .

Jeteras 3 years, 8 months ago

HAHAHAHAH i love it!! Kinda like the rodney king riots.. they asked a man bashing a storefront window what he thought about the out come of the Rodney King trial and he said "I DONT WATCH SPORTS ON TV" and then kept bashing away..

Phone_Man 3 years, 8 months ago

It would appear their change is headed much in the direction of our good friend Nobama. Like these morons he has changed nothing. I'm ready for the gun toters to get back in office so we can "Make A Change" at least something will get done instead of nothing!

Phone_Man 3 years, 8 months ago

Oh, I also think we should have the fire department hose them all down about midnight tonight. If they are going to stay out there the least we can do is give them a free shower.

dontsheep 3 years, 8 months ago

@ljwhirled...in case you only read downward, please scroll up and address my questions.

Thanks.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

Okay, I'll answer here too (not comment spam, the above thread is kind of deep, so I re-posted here)

Who is paying for the larger, coordinated effort? - Mostly this is being coordinated through social media, which is still an unprofitable enterprise. The Venture Capital groups in Silicon Valley are therefor still paying the bills.

What is their agenda? To make money.

Do the violent protests in Eurpoe indicated what's to come to the US? - Maybe. It could happen if all of a sudden the Feds slashed Social Security and Medicare, but likely not. The difference is that, for now, the Dollar is the reserve currency for the world. This means when times get bad, people flock to lend the US money. The problem in Europe is different. Greece can't borrow any more money and, because of the Euro, they can't default either. The result is severe austerity measures, which are sparking protests.

If you were to plan a.........new system to be created? In terms of a planned collapse, it would likely take a while to put together a new system. The book "This Time Is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly " has a lot of great historical examples. I am unaware of anyone planning a financial collapse, except, perhapse the Republican party. I don't believe this is intentional, their policies are just stupid and short sighted and, if implemented, would result in a slow decline for America.

What would be consequences be in the interim? Starvation, violence, land grabs, poverty and a large economic depression. See: United States 1927 to 1941.

Would people die? Yes.

What would the next system be? How would it be structured? Don't know.

Who would be in control? Likely the rich and powerful. It usually happens that way.

How would justice be handled? I don't think the judicial system is a target of these protests. I imagine it will continue to evolve slowly over time as it has since the 13th century. Lawyers are a slow moving breed.

Why are radical progressives, racists, Nazis, and fundamentalist Islamic groups joining forces under this movement? - They are not. This is fiction being put forward by the powerful. Quadaffi said the same thing about the rebels. You are watching too much Fox News.

What is their goal? - The overall goal of the movement is to promote social change and reduce inequality in our society.

If I attempted to post these questions, and many others to the occupy blog, would they be allowed to post? Would someone answer them? If no, why not? - I don't know about their blog. It is all techy and stuff. You might try and ask them directly.

DrRustinMcGillicuddy 3 years, 8 months ago

Occupy Lawrence has been happening for years in South Park, I'm surprised it is just now getting attention. The homeless are part of the 99%.

Jack McEnaney 3 years, 8 months ago

If the teaparty people were staying past the deadline set for them, would they be allowed to stay?

Vaildini 3 years, 8 months ago

They wouldn't stay. They need to get sleep because they have to go to work in the morning.

deec 3 years, 8 months ago

It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion. "On your right to disagree “In a free and republican government, you cannot restrain the voice of the multitude; every man will speak as he thinks, or more properly without thinking.” George Washington The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me. Who works for whom? “I consider the people who constitute a society or a nation as the source of all authority in that nation.” Thomas Jefferson" http://the912-project.com/about/the-9...

kernal 3 years, 8 months ago

"Civil disobedience becomes a sacred duty when the state has become lawless and corrupt. And a citizen who barters with such a state shares in its corruption...Every citizen is responsible for every act if its government..." - Mahatma Ghandi

Our Constitution allows its citizens to speak out when the government does not act on behalf of its citizens but on behalf of of PACs and corporations. And that is part of what the Occupy is about.

The people in South Park are not violent, have no intention of being violent and the comments that they may do so is either due to lack of understanding, the wish to instigate violence or paranoia of change stirring up the wind.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

  1. The most effective mechanism for change in an open society is voting.

  2. The second most effective mechanism for change is non-violent resistance.

Be sure you are exercising point 1 before moving on to point 2.

My biggest beef with local progressives is that they make up more than 1/2 our community, but in the last municipal election only 12% of the total population turned out to vote.

I'd be curious how many of the folks in South Park voted in the last municipal election.

fu7il3 3 years, 8 months ago

Do they really make up more than half of our community? Or are they just the loudest? The people of Occupy Lawrence are a ridiculously small percentage of the population.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 8 months ago

I wonder how many are students cutting classes? Does your mom and dad know what the money they gave the college is going for???

fu7il3 3 years, 8 months ago

Honestly, it is still a step up from pizza and beer.

kernal 3 years, 8 months ago

frwent, there's a good possibility their grandparents cut classes for the Vietnam War protests, so I doubt the parents of these students are overly concerned as long as their kids are keeping their grades up and learning something. It's better than a child going to college and drinking and partying his way through with little to show for it, except that piece of paper that doesn't guarantee him or her a job.

ljwhirled 3 years, 8 months ago

Yes, if you look at the demographics for the City of Lawrence, a majority of the citizens are progressive. Democrats outnumber Republicans and the University skews our age profile to the young side.

Yep, if you are a conservative in Lawrence, you are outnumbered.

Ken Lassman 3 years, 8 months ago

Actually, there are more registered repubs in Douglas County than dems. But that's not the point. The current political system has failed the common citizen, and both parties have plenty of blame to shoulder.

This whole movement may seem ridiculous to lots of folks, but those same folks have not been served by the current system; indeed it has managed to screw each of us over in one way or another. So in that sense, the Occupy Lawrence group DOES represent the 99 percent.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 8 months ago

Actually there are more registered Republicans in the county because you cannot vote in a primary unless you are registered by your party. Therefore to vote against the most disgusting Republican who is likely to get eleted, and the fact that there are usually no primaries in the Democratic party, you register in the "other" party and vote against the favored Republican candidate. See????

Ken Lassman 3 years, 8 months ago

Great point. But both parties have still failed the vast majority of voting and non-voting citizens in general and the young in particular. That's why this movement is getting such traction.

Apollo Hernandez 3 years, 8 months ago

No words can express how much I love this post. Everyone is always so outspoken yet no one is voting.

gudpoynt 3 years, 8 months ago

it's a protest for god's sake. It's supposed to ruffle feathers. That's the whole point. They don't call it civil obedience, do they?

Sounds like they're doing their best to keep the protest going while working out a peacable solution with law enforcement.

I don't see the BFD.

Could any one of you CAVE people please explain how the Occupy protesters are doing any harm to you personally.

Sounds to me like they're just challenging your political identity, and in response, you're whining about some petty city ordinance to un-justify their actions.

Give me a break. You're like the coach of the inferior basketball team who complains to the referee that the opposing team's star has a drop of blood on his jersey, and must be taken out of the game. It's a an attempt to invalidate your opposition based on a mere technicality. And it's kind of sad.

Sadder still, is the insistence upon a non-reality of the OWS movement's composition, e.g. dirty, government-mooching, aimless, drug users, etc.

Kind of like referring to the Tea Party as predominantly racist, rather than addressing their real concerns. Certainly makes it easier to disagree with a population when you mischaracterize them all as "bad" people in one way or another. Easier maybe, but pretty pathetic.

yourworstnightmare 3 years, 8 months ago

Obviously, the Occupy Lawrence people are stoking strong feelings in the hearts and minds of Lawrencians.

The fear and loathing of right wingers on this site suggest that Occupy Lawrence should continue. They are having an effect.

Tea, anyone?

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 8 months ago

This stupid demonstration will solve nothing. No one on Wall Street is paying one bit of attention to the "protests" of these unwashed idiots. Now that the deadline has past, their position has passed from one of silly protest to law violaters. They are now saying "I am going to shove a stick in your eye and what are you going to do about it??"

They have no veracity, purpose, reason, just only to make some noise, break the law and stick their tongues out. They akin to and are on a similar course as the Phelps clan.

kernal 3 years, 8 months ago

You really think no one on Wall Street is paying any attention to the fact that small and large cities throughout the U.S. and cities around the World are supporting OWS? Then they must be more brain dead than we thought, or you're limiting your news intake to local.

We should be asking why Wall Street is keeping mum.

gr 3 years, 8 months ago

"By city ordinance, Lawrence parks close from 11:30 p.m. to 6 a.m. But late Thursday night, no city personnel arrived to enforce the ordinance, leaving the protesters alone for another night.

Wheeler previously has said the city would have the legal right to remove the campers from the park, but she has stopped short of saying whether that will be the approach the city takes to enforce the law."

So, can everyone stay in the park, or do they just allow certain favored lawbreakers?

gudpoynt 3 years, 8 months ago

The naysayers remind me of Walter pulling a gun on Smokey for stepping over the line.

"You're not wrong Walter, you're just an a**hole!"

gudpoynt 3 years, 8 months ago

But I suppose the naysayers are right. They shouldn't violate the curfew. It's just plain illegal.

Instead, they should gamble away hundreds of billions of dollars of other peoples's money, tank the world's strongest economy, demand taxpayer bailouts, and continue on with their reckless practices, while continuing to receive ridiculous bonuses, limited oversight, and no penalty whatsoever.

At least that's legal... depending on who you know and what your job title is.

gudpoynt 3 years, 8 months ago

preemptive predictable reply:

"Yeah, if your job title is POTUS, and you know George Soros, Rahm Emanuel, et al"

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 8 months ago

Perhaps you should educate yourself on the workings of the financial world, the various stock markets of the world, the current methods of investment that many investors utilize, and disassociate yourself of the fraudulant notion that the President of the United States has any authority to issue instructions or orders to the companies that offer various investment products to their customers.

There is so much BS going around as to what is really going on and who is responsible for the current economy situation that was started and enflamed by the previous Republican administration. Those who are demanding immediate solutions to a very long standing and difficult situation, such as American companies finding cheaper labor and costs offshore in China need to quash their ravings and get a grip on reality.

The real enemy is American corporations who ship jobs overseas. And American citizens who mindlessly buy foreign made crap from them.

We have met the enemy. They is U.S. -Pogo the Possum

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

"The real enemy is American corporations who ship jobs overseas."

Umm, that would pretty much be Wall Street.

3 years, 8 months ago

Less than 10% of American (Wall Street) investment goes overseas. FDI Index < 10%.

CLARKKENT 3 years, 8 months ago

GUD---THEN CHANGE THE LAW, OR ENFORCE THE ONE WE HAVE.

progressive_thinker 3 years, 8 months ago

For those who are interested in the process of change that Occupy Wall Street and other "occupy" groups may be going through, please take a moment to watch this video.

progressive_thinker 3 years, 8 months ago

Why? Because he is another lackey for the Koch's? Or maybe because of his "stellar" performance on the board of directors with Aquila?

Shane Garrett 3 years, 8 months ago

Hey, the economy must be getting better as today the Senate voted 60-38 to attach the proposal to a spending bill that the chamber will consider later this year. It would restore the size of the loans the government buys or insures to a maximum of $729,500 from the previous cap of $625,500. All 38 nay votes were from those nasty Republicans. I guess they don't want poor people to be able to apply for 700,000 $ loans.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

"All 38 nay votes were from those nasty Republicans. I guess they don't want poor people to be able to apply for 700,000 $ loans."

Doesn't mean anything. They say "no" to anything that Democrats support. Doesn't matter if it's a good idea or bad.

gl0ck0wn3r 3 years, 8 months ago

I'm curious... How would the city deal with a KKK gathering of similar size that broke the same rules? What about the Phelps clan? I am not a supporter of either organization - so ease up before you write some snarky post about how I'd prefer those people - but I believe the city would behave differently with these organizations because they are disliked by a majority of citizens. The occupy people are seen largely as harmless by most citizens and I'd gather that most of those within city hall come closer to supporting the occupy demands - such as they are - than those of the other two groups. I believe the city is setting a pretty terrible precedent by allowing an organization they like (or tolerate) to break the rules because one day they might have to deal similarly with organizations they dislike.

bad_dog 3 years, 8 months ago

"What about those tax payers rights?"

Assuming it's not between 11:30 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. they have the legal right to be there, too. Get a clothes pin to protect your delicate sensibilities and go do your civic duty by explaining to them how wrong they are.

Enjoy!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

" I am not a supporter of either organization "

I'll take your word for that, but be honest-- all you're doing with this post is attempting to paint these demonstrations with a Phred Phelps brush. You couldn't care less about how the city would react one way or the other if it were Phred protesting (in the dozens of times they've been in Lawrence, has the city does anything about it?)

David Reynolds 3 years, 8 months ago

I believe we should quit talking about them, and just ignore them. There has to be better entertainment.

They have no focus, and there is no measurable outcome to say any of the "occupy" events can say they ever accomplished anything except public scorn. Sure there are a few that mindlessly follow anything.

The sooner you start ignoring them the sooner they vanish from the headlines.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

"They have no focus,"

They must be channeling you, dude!!!

jayhawkster 3 years, 8 months ago

Ran by the protesters this morning at around 6:15 and those folks sure looked cold. Hope they find what they're looking for before old man winter puts them under his thumb.

SomethingFierce88 3 years, 8 months ago

What I find funny is that they are protesting more or less about money yet for the past week they have been sitting in the park when they could have been working at their job making money...I mean seriously have any of you seen the videos of the protestors on wall street or NYC...Something doesnt add up. Maybe work a little then protest after work if it means THAT much to you!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

".Something doesnt add up."

Perhaps the problem lies with you (dis)ability to add.

orange95 3 years, 8 months ago

police need to let them stay and eventually kansas winter will come along and freeze there asses out of the park

SomethingFierce88 3 years, 8 months ago

I have lived in Lawrence for 21 years and when I walked past the Occupy Lawrence group I recognized about 75% of them are the same homeless people that ask me for money on mass.

kernal 3 years, 8 months ago

We have a warming trend until Wednesday, so guess someone will have to make a decision; or not.

It's a tough call.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 8 months ago

Regular posters here should recognize that I am one of the people who rave and rant about the absolute incompetance of the elected so-called "city commission". I have maintained that opinion for many years dating back to the city hall in the river bottom flap. This event just is further proof that our city government and it's law enforcement is broke, broke, broke. They pass ordnances and harrass citizens for standing water, junk cars (some neighborhoods, at least) and a host of other violations. But this great group of unemployed, unwashed, uncivilized scum chooses to plant itself in a city park and violate those city ordnances for some unworkable and ridiculous issue they have cobbled up , and the city sits and remains clueless, toothless and downright incompetant to deal with this mob. I have ranted for years. The proof is in the pudding. Did you bother to vote in the last city election? Are you proud of the idiots you elected? Only in little ole Larryville.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

"Regular posters here should recognize that I am one of the people who rave and rant"

Duly noted.

sherbert 3 years, 8 months ago

Violating the sign ordinance with their big sign banners in the easement.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 8 months ago

Yeah, how about that one? Legal and viable businesses in Lawrence have been harrassed and fined for the damned sign ordnance. Whaddya say Mr. Mayor Cromwell? Any reason this gets a free pass??

KS 3 years, 8 months ago

Lawrence should enforce it laws. They ran the campers off of the dike a couple of years ago. Why not here in the park? My guess is that by Thanksgiving, the crowd will start to dwindle. Let's hope for a brutal winter. Six to eight inches of snow should help.

David Reynolds 3 years, 8 months ago

I say again please ignore them & quit talking about them.

If they do not have an audience nor any attention the "Occupy Lawrence" folks will disappear.

Why does anyone pay attention to them? They do not have a message that makes sense & there is no way to measure "Mission Accomplished".

It is obvious thru these blogs they do not have any support. Why give them your valuable time?

There is plenty of quality entertainment beyond "Occupy Lawrence".

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

"They do not have a message that makes sense "

I thought the approved echo-chamber response was either that they are communists or have no identifiable response.

Armored_One 3 years, 8 months ago

You know what is truly and utterly sad.

Fred Phelps is more interested in following the laws of this nation than the protestors trying to "reclaim' the nation from those evil corporations.

At least Fred willing and gladly applies for a permit to protest each adn every time they gather to spew their rhetoric.

Again, I ask why the Occupy movement should receive more credit than Fred, considering he at least obeys the laws wherever his clan goes.

Not to mention that the KKK also files applications to protest each and every time.

The protestors in the park rank lower than Fred Phelps and the Klan. Somehow, that seems almost appropriate.

Armored_One 3 years, 8 months ago

Well, since I obviously used words that were entirely beyond your scope of understanding, I'll put it a bit more plainly.

Phelps protests dead soldier's funerals bearing signs that say God killed them because we haven't reduced homosexuals to second class citizens.

Occupy Lawrence does nothing more offensive than use that tacky flag style banner.

Phelps obeys the law and files for a permit to protest.

Occupy Lawrence seems to think that they are exempt from that particular local ordinance.

Phelps, despite his gut-wrenching bigotry, is more willing to follow the laws of this city, regardless of his not being a resident, than local citizens.

And yes, I have done my 'research' on Occupy and Phelps. I know exactly what I am talking about. I flat asked Shirley several times last year if I could see her permit to protest, which she promptly produced. I said thank you and proceeded on my merry way.

And, for the record, I am being exceptionally nice to the Occupy people. It is not against the law in Lawrence, or Kansas, to discharge stink bombs, so long as the 'fluid' does not directly and intentionally come into contact with another person. I've fought the urge to break a couple boxes of them while walking through the 'camp' several times.

And yes, I confront stupidity when I find it, otherwise, it will simply continue to fester.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

"Fred Phelps is more interested in following the laws of this nation than the protestors trying to "reclaim' the nation from those evil corporations."

Phred is a self-promoting chicketsheeite. Which makes him much more part of the mainstream than these particular protestors.

pepper_bar 3 years, 8 months ago

The Lawrence police have handed South Park to the hobos.

kernal 3 years, 8 months ago

I'm hoping they all leave the park tonight. It's Friday = drunk night downtown. I don't even want to think of the possibilities if they don't decamp.

Ken Lassman 3 years, 8 months ago

You obviously have not been there if you think that anyone would have difficulty getting out of their cars due to the tents set up in the right of way. Talk about a non-issue.

deec 3 years, 8 months ago

Rasmussen also has OWS over Tea Party 33-29% 79% “agree with the statement that the ‘The big banks got bailed out but the middle class got left behind.’” The poll was done October 9. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/10/09/rasmussen-releases-occupy-wall-street-poll/ "...Americans say there’s plenty of blame to go around: more than 78 percent of adults blamed Wall Street for all the economic problems, while 87 percent pointed the finger at Washington. " October 18 poll. http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/usa-todaygallup-44-percent-current-economic-system-unfair-to-them-personally.php

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

33+27=57%, which is greater than 40%.

43% of Republicans is a minority, not a majority of Republicans.

55% is greater than 45%.

Your numbers don't match your conclusions.

I disagree with your prediction - I predict that the split in the Republican party between the moderates and the T-Party folks will result in a win for the Democrats.

Especially if the economy gets a bit better over the next year.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

33% have a positive view, and 27% have a negative one, according to your post.

That makes 57% that have a definite opinion, which is a majority.

Which doesn't support your contention that nobody cares much about it one way or the other.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 8 months ago

Citizens and city hall have much larger issues such as 64 bedroom boarding houses being built next door to you! Or when will the school district and local elected officials stop handing out tax dollars to wealthy real estate movers and shakers?

Citizens have much larger issues such as when are the politicians and bankers involved with putting approximately 11 million out if work by way of fraudulent lending practices going to be visiting a grand jury?

The OWS contingencies are doing this nation a huge favor.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 8 months ago

The local OWS contingency is working with City Hall to which I say hats off!!!

Very very good!

akt2 3 years, 8 months ago

I decided to have a look on my way home from work today. I saw one big painted sign/bedsheet, and a handful of pup tents. The south side of the park by the swings was full of kids playing, people walking their dogs and other normal park activities. They seemed to far outnumber the feeble attempt at protesting.

3 years, 8 months ago

This would be a whole different story if it was Fred Phelps and his family were camping out protesting gays or something. How long would the city let them camp out at South Park?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 8 months ago

Have you ever heard of the Phelps's doing anything like camping out?

ToriFreak13 3 years, 8 months ago

The whole Occupy movement has to be the lamest attempt of a revolution in history. Chapter written. Book closed. Now get a job. Pay your bills. Save money. Buy a house. Pay taxes. Stop approving $18 million dollar remodeling projects. Make your life worth more, not others worth less.

kernal 3 years, 8 months ago

Revolution? You were expecting a Revolution? OWS was never meant to be a Revolution. It's a statement.

ToriFreak13 3 years, 8 months ago

How long does it take to make a statement? The groups occupying to make statements are now inciting riots, antagonizing law enforcement, and only professing that they are mad they didn't make the 1%. That 1% includes other citizens of the same country that are guaranteed the same rights. It is indeed the kindling of a revolution. Again, the poorest attempt on record.

Godot 3 years, 8 months ago

Anyone who receives a parking ticket, a traffic ticket, a defecating in public ticket, or a citation for having more than three un-related tenants in a rental home, etc, from last week until the Occupy Lawrence encampment is removed from South Park, should and must appeal/ ney they must rebel!!!..Why should these Fawkers be more equal than the rest of us under the law? Grounds for appeal are unequal and prejudicial enforcement of the statutes and ordinances of the city.

Godot 3 years, 8 months ago

It pisses me off. I have to put my quarter in the meter to go to the community building lest I get a fine, but these Fawkers can fawking camp out in the park for days on end and the Fawking City does nothing!!! Fawke Them All!!!

DrRustinMcGillicuddy 3 years, 8 months ago

You should totally sleep overnight in the freezing cold and then you wouldn't even have to give away that sweet, sweet quarter.

Centerville 3 years, 8 months ago

You have to be kidding about the pumpkin carving and strumming guitars. Or, has "Truth to Power" finally come to this: a tableau straight out of Mom & Dad's basement?

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