Archive for Thursday, October 13, 2011

Immigration experts meeting at KU criticize Kobach’s laws

October 13, 2011


Immigration experts on Thursday criticized laws in Alabama and Arizona that were co-authored by Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach. But Kobach said the controversial anti-illegal immigration measures were working.

“People are self-deporting,” Kobach said. “People are picking up and leaving.”

But Benjamin Johnson, executive director of the American Immigration Council, said the Arizona and Alabama laws were resulting in police racial profiling.

Alberto Cardenas Jr., an immigration attorney from Houston, said having individual states adopt immigration laws was counterproductive to forming a rational federal law.

“The solution has to come at the federal level,” Cardenas said. He added, “We have to look at this issue as a human one.”

Jeanette Hernandez Prenger of Kansas City, Mo., and vice chair of the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, said some of the consequences of the new Alabama law would be higher food prices because farmers in Alabama were having trouble finding people to harvest crops.

Their comments came during the Immigration and the Kansas Economy conference sponsored by the Kansas University Institute for Policy and Social Research and held at the Union.

Kobach, a Republican elected secretary of state last year, has been a national leader in writing tough anti-illegal immigration laws in various states and cities.

He helped write the controversial SB 1070 in Arizona and, more recently, the law cracking down on illegal immigration in Alabama.

Hispanic advocates and some business groups have said the Alabama law is causing panic and many undocumented workers are fleeing the state. The American Subcontractors Association said even legal workers are leaving because they may have a family member in the country illegally.

Last month, a federal judge upheld parts of the law that authorizes police to detain people suspected of being in the country illegally. Other provisions require public schools to determine the legal residency of children.

Kobach said the law is working as planned. “You are encouraging people to comply with the law,” he said. He said he has heard that U.S. citizens are lining up for jobs at an Alabama meat-packing plant where illegal workers are leaving.

Kobach argued that illegal immigrants are a drain on the national economy because of the welfare and education services they use.

But Cardenas and Johnson said the United States needs immigrants and if all undocumented workers left, the economy would fall into a tailspin. Cardenas noted that when a meat-packing plant in southwest Kansas was destroyed by fire several years ago, it was local leaders — not immigrants — who pleaded with the company to rebuild.

Earlier in the conference, James Hawkins, chief of the Garden City Police Department, said if Kansas adopted a law, similar to the ones in Alabama and Arizona that require police to check on immigration status, it would hurt his officers’ ability to enforce the law.

“It would really confound local law enforcement,” he said.

Garden City is home to several large immigrant groups and Hawkins said police work hard to communicate with them and gain their trust in order to investigate crimes.

Kobach disagreed with Hawkins and said it was possible that an Arizona- or Alabama-type law would be considered next year by the Kansas Legislature.


itwasthedukes 6 years, 7 months ago

Not a pretty situation but something has to be done. Shame on the federal government for letting it get this bad.

bradh 6 years, 7 months ago

Immigration experts? With the exception of James Hawkins, it looks like all the experts in the article either make their living from defending illegals or work for organizations supporting illegals. That doesn't make them experts, they just presumably agree with the author's viewpoint.

opinion 6 years, 7 months ago

"Who besides themselves say they are "Immigration experts"?"

Scott Rothschild.

parrothead8 6 years, 7 months ago

Says the right wing nut job.

How about a cop? Is the cop a "left wing nut job?"

Fred Whitehead Jr. 6 years, 7 months ago

Show me a right wing nut Republican Terrorist party tea bagger who does not agree with him.

Liberty275 6 years, 7 months ago

"Tossing them back over the borderline is not punishment"

I think it is adequate. We can't afford to jail them, and feed them, and treat their medical conditions, so sending them back is really the only good option. If they commit further crimes while here, then we might jail them, but not for minor infractions.

"What the country needs is the Democrats Japanese internment camps from the 40's."

Why do you hate the Japanese? :-)

voevoda 6 years, 7 months ago

So, FalseHopeNoChange, you think that it would be preferable for us, the taxpayers, to spend millions upon millions of our tax money to imprison illegal aliens, rather than allow them to pay for their own keep out in the community? Sorry, I don't want my taxes to increase in order to intern (among others) women and children and channel huge amounts of money into the private prison industry. I'm surprised that you'd advocate this solution, just on economic grounds. It runs against the philosophy you tend to post advocating lower taxes and smaller government.

Me2 6 years, 7 months ago

We are already spending our tax dollars on these people. The mothers break our laws by coming here by non legal methods. Two days later she is in an american hospital, we pay for the birthing of her child. Then they get low income housing, food stamps. Food stamp card gives them $300 every month in cash assistance to pay for non food items. She has five years before her benefits run out to find a job. And guess who pays for a job coach to help her find a job? Guess who pays for daycare if she doesn't earn enough to pay it herself? Healthcare? Yep, you got it she quailifies for Medicaid. Please tell me again how allowing them to stay in the community makes them pay for their own keep?

Kendall Simmons 6 years, 7 months ago

These claims of yours are just myths...don't you know that yet??? Why on earth do you believe this silliness? The facts are readily available...but they won't support these imaginary claims of yours, so you're not going to bother to check, are you?

jafs 6 years, 7 months ago

Deport them, not imprison them.

And, yes, it makes sense to punish, rather than reward, illegal behavior, if we want to discourage it.

optimist 6 years, 7 months ago

It is unbelievable how dishonest these illegal immigrant advocates are.

Mike Ford 6 years, 7 months ago

better yet false hope why don't you and your incredibly intelligent european immigrants create another H.R. 108 to terminate the federal recognition of over 300 tribes so that you can steal all the timber, water, oil, and natural gas you want... stealing is what republicans actually do all actuality H.R. 108 did occur between 1954 and 1973 when Richard Nixon declared the legislation a failure and began the congressional process of restoring the federal recognition to many of the formerly terminated tribes to end a process another republican Dwight Eisenhower started. Of the 1.2 million acres of timber the Klamath Tribe of Oregon had prior to termination they've got maybe 100,000 acres back. If you're going to be a good thief you might as well ask a republican how it's done. Better yet, why not ask Jack Abramov and Tom Delay how it's done. Jack Abramov left federal prison owing the Coushatta Tribe of Louisiana $ 22.3 Million for his lobbying do you assail Democrats with a straight face.....denial....that's the ticket.

bradh 6 years, 7 months ago

Wow, talk about off base from the article. But since you want to talk Indian lands and politics, which party stole most of the Indian lands and was created at least in part to do so? Here's a hint, the Republican party hadn't been created yet. Which party was the party of the slaveholder and fought hard not to have the slaves freed? Again, it wasn't the Republicans. Both parties are political in nature and have some pretty ugly warts.

Delawarebob 6 years, 7 months ago

The Federal Government has refused to enforce our immigration laws and now we have 12-20 million illegal aliens in this country, not counting their anchor babies, (illegal alien children). Anyone ever figure out what a drain this illegal immigration has been on this country, the schooling of the illegal alien children, the free medical care, the stolen jobs, the crime, the costs of deportation, the cost of building the fence, the costs of the law suits, the money sent out of this country by the illegal aliens, the costs of jailing these illegal aliens and everything else. When is this all going to end? We have an estimated 18 million Americans out of work, yet 7 million illegal aliens are working. There is a problem here. This problem will only end when we get rid of all the illegal aliens and their anchor babies, (illegal alien children). THAT IS A FACT!

Any questions?

Kendall Simmons 6 years, 7 months ago

Ah, yes. The myth of the "anchor baby". And now we get additional Kris Kobach myths. (You'd think that, since he's an attorney, he'd understand the concept of hearsay, but noooo.)

Mike Ford 6 years, 7 months ago

misinformation brought to you by the Koch brothers.....

Flap Doodle 6 years, 7 months ago

Head 'em up & move 'em out. There should be fleets of buses going to the Mexican border every day loaded to the gunwales with illegal aliens being deported.

Jayhawker07 6 years, 7 months ago

Bottom line the border is still unprotected. This an unenforced state. I guess I will change my opinion when I am told to do so. At least that is what I am told.

Katara 6 years, 7 months ago

You can't even get a state senator to pick a token bucket of tomatoes as a demonstration of how easy the work is so as to attract American workers.

"After talking with famers at the tomato shed, Beason visited the Smith family's farm. Leroy Smith, Chad Smith's father, challenged the senator to pick a bucket full of tomatoes and experience the labor-intensive work.

Beason declined but promised to see what could be done to help farmers while still trying to keep illegal immigrants out of Alabama.

Smith threw down the bucket he offered Beason and said, "There, I figured it would be like that."

billbodiggens 6 years, 7 months ago

Had dealings with Hawkens on various state-wide and local issues over the years. The man is not a nut. He is a highly educated and competent enforcer of law and has been at it for decades. Dismiss him if you will, but do not expect a relative new comer to the arena to have any better opinions on the issues at hand. Kobach says he disagrees with Hawkens. Kobach does not say why he disagrees. Maybe Kobach simply does not want to deal with reality but knowes he has found his magic carpet to fame and fortune. To disagree with something or someone by calling it or them a liberal or conservative is meaningless. It is merely name calling used by desperate people to feel important and imposing. It is, for the most part, simply foolish. It apparently requires saying the dumbest things imaginable.

ivalueamerica 6 years, 7 months ago

If we can not find a way to deal with immigration without violating human rights, ignoring our own Constitution and holding ourselves accountable for our part of the problem, then we fail as a nation.

jafs 6 years, 7 months ago

"ha ha...human rights..."

I take it your post implies that conservatives don't believe in human rights, since you use the term "liberal human rights".

And, your dichotomy is a false one - liberal laws would take human rights into account. But, again I guess conservative ones don't do that.

ivalueamerica 6 years, 7 months ago

Uhmm, Constitutional law requires us to abide by them. I realize to you, that means nothing, and that explains to me well enough about what sort of American you are.

Cant_have_it_both_ways 6 years, 7 months ago

BS the first thing they did was break the law by entering the country illegally. After that there is nothing else no rights to schooling, jobs, medical, etc.

How can you value America when you do not support its laws?

Katara 6 years, 7 months ago

Sure, you've probably never had your car over the speed limit, done a rolling stop at a stop sign, cut through a parking lot to avoid a wait at red light, jaywalked or tossed a cigarette or gum wrapper out the window just to name a few of the laws that are routinely broken by many, many Americans.

Are you going to suggest that anyone who breaks any law does not value America? There are a lot of laws out there. Do you have to support each and every single one to value America?

guess_again 6 years, 7 months ago

"How can you value America when you do not support its laws? "

You mean like when Phill Kline repeatedly lies to the judicial system and the public?

ivalueamerica 6 years, 7 months ago

I see you are ignorant of the law. I forgive your ignorance.

You see, if a child was carried in his fathers arms when the father committed a crime and the child either did not even know the crime was committed, or was unable to do anything about it or unaware of the consequences, that child did not break the law.

Mike Ford 6 years, 7 months ago

actually texas comes from the word tejas which is supposedly Caddo for friend... actually bedtime for bonzo signed the indian gaming regulatory act into law in 1988. actually Mexico has a significant indigenous population that is treated as bad as the indigenous peoples here. The Spaniards there co opted hundreds of indigenous languages with Spanish, an immigrant language like English which co opted hundreds of languages here. English came here on a boat with immigrants who have turned reality on it's head now for three or four centuries on this land. One has to love it when corporations refuse to pay their own caucasian people a living wage while the misinformed vote for politicians who profess their love of god and guns while closing down these misinformed people's places of work and sending them to India or Mexico where their people value education more than the over confident misinformed and undereducated people called rural americans do. Only in America....keep failing and voting for the people who kneecap're doing great....and instead of dealing with the problem assail the messenger....

Cant_have_it_both_ways 6 years, 7 months ago

People fail at business if they look over their shoulder all the time worrying about their competitors. If you don't look forward you miss a sale.

Seems like you are missing a lot of sales tuschie. Six or seven generations have passed since what you complain about constantly happened. Frankly, very few of us care as we are all trying to scratch a living out of every day. Those of us who succeed keep looking forward, those that don't bitch, whine and complain about things they have no control over and continue to miss a sale.

guess_again 6 years, 7 months ago

Says one who bitches to another who bitches.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 7 months ago

Raise the minimum wage to something approaching a living wage, and enforce it, and implement a guest worker program that's well supervised to prevent employer abuse, and the immigration problem goes away.

Katara 6 years, 7 months ago

There is actually a farm worker guest program in existence now. It is called H-2A. It definitely needs a revamping but it is a good base to start with.

David Reynolds 6 years, 7 months ago

I do not see any experts listed. I see agenda driven folks.

Alberto Cardenas please realize the states are taking matters into their own hands because the Feds, thru inaction, are supporting illegal immigration.

Jeanette I don't believe prices would go up if the illegals would go home & get their green card, and any other documentation they need and then come back legally.

All arguments supporting illegals are political and not in the best interests of the USA.

America is a country of laws. What part of illegal don't folks get?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 7 months ago

"I do not see any experts listed. I see agenda driven folks."

You're clearly referring to Kobach, right?

Angela Heili 6 years, 7 months ago

I think it interesting that the white man killed men, women and children, lied, cheated, and ripped the land right out from under the native American's, but when the Mexicans come up here and take jobs that no one else wants we cry "foul". What goes around comes around people. Doesn't feel very good to be "invaded" does it?

Jim Williamson 6 years, 7 months ago

Meanwhile, in the middle of this "self-deportation," a couple of friends of mine who farm in Western Kansas can't find anyone to work their fields. No amount of advertising or hourly wage is bringing in "legal" residents.

I'm not saying illegal immigration isn't a problem, but "self-deportation" has consequences.

jafs 6 years, 7 months ago

Why is that?

With high unemployment, you'd think people would be glad to get a job if they can.

jafs 6 years, 7 months ago

But unemployment doesn't pay very much, as I understand it.

Doesn't it pay all of about $300/month? That averages out to about $2/hour.

Katara 6 years, 7 months ago

The information I have read states that a lot of it has very little to do with wages but with the actual work itself. It is very labor intensive.

Younger folk could probably handle it but an older person, such as one that works at a desk all day issuing & reviewing contracts, would probably end up injuring themselves.

jafs 6 years, 7 months ago

That makes sense.

But, aren't there plenty of unemployed young people right now?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 7 months ago

"No amount of advertising or hourly wage is bringing in "legal" residents."

How much are they offering?

camper 6 years, 7 months ago

I might be up for some work like that. Is there anything like that around Douglas County?

jafs 6 years, 7 months ago

Why aren't the unemployed Americans taking the jobs?

blogme 6 years, 7 months ago

raerae quoted NPR. LOL! Might as well just create a story to support your argument and post it online somewhere with a link.

I'm one of those kids that grew up in Western Kansas, and I can tell you I pulled a lot of weeds, cut a lot of fireweed and shattercane out of the fields out there while I was in high school. Sometimes I made minimum wage, sometimes a bit more depending on the farmer. If farmers can't find workers, it's not because all the illegals are being sent home, It's because parents of kids growing up out there are espousing a living wage instead of what the job pays and then kids somehow feel that work is beneath them. A living wage is what you earn, not what the government says you have to be paid. If you can't afford to live on what you earning, move up the ladder and find a job that pays what you need to live.

It really IS that simple.

jafs 6 years, 7 months ago

It seem rather unlikely that Western KS, which tends to be rather conservative, would be espousing a living wage.

blogme 6 years, 7 months ago

That's because people like to work for their money out there. :-)

jafs 6 years, 7 months ago

It contradicts your claim that the parents are advocating for that, which makes the rest of your argument fall flat.

blogme 6 years, 7 months ago

Only if you think I'm supporting Phogfan86's comments about not being able to find legal workers in western kansas. Next time I'll shoot off a flair so you catch that. LOL! I'm calling it hogwash just in case you can't follow. Oh, what is hogwash? I'm saying, Phogfan86's comment about a farmer in western kansas unable to find workers because illegal aliens are self deporting is not true. Another NPR story made just like the one raerae linked to. Got it now?

jafs 6 years, 7 months ago

"It's not because all the illegals are being sent home, it's because parents of kids growing up there are espousing a living wage"

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 7 months ago

You don't get a living wage for sitting on your butt. You get it by getting off your rear end and going to work.

And no one forces any employer to pay a minimum or a living wage-- they always have the option of just doing whatever it is they think needs doing all by their lonesome. And if they really, really need the help that bad, why shouldn't they pay their employees at least enough to live a relatively minimal existence?

It's not like anyone getting a living wage (currently about $12 an hour in Lawrence) is going to get rich. To the contrary-- even for a single person with no kids will be living from paycheck to paycheck.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 7 months ago

Jeez, you did you flunk basic math?

No one making $12 an hour lives in Mission Hills. And if a business owner is competent at running their business, they should be able to do quite well while also treating their employees fairly. It's only the incompetent jerks who need to be able to screw their employees in order to operate their businesses. (Is that why you're so incensed about this-- does this strike close to home for you?)

"And nobody is forcing anyone to stay in a 12/hr"

Who said they were? What's your point? (aside from expressing your disdain for "librals")

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 7 months ago

My definition of fair in Lawrence is at least $12 an hour. If an employer can't operate a business while paying their employees that amount, it means that the employer is incompetent and/or an exploitive jerk, or that their isn't sufficient demand for that product or service (the real market at work.)

"But liberals want to take my money"

Requirements to pay a living wage is not taking "your money." If you want to hire someone, pay them an amount on which they can actually pay bills that come with a minimal existence-- i.e., a living wage. If you don't want to do that, then don't become an employer and leave that to people are actually capable of managing their businesses without exploiting people.

tomatogrower 6 years, 7 months ago

"It's only the incompetent jerks who need to be able to screw their employees in order to operate their businesses."

This is the truth. Look at all the "hot shot" CEO's who posted fake profits by cutting the workforce down. Laying off a worker is not real profit. They put it under the guise of "increasing productivity", but real profit is when you increase your business, not cut your employees.

Cant_have_it_both_ways 6 years, 7 months ago

I'll bet you if they took all the welfare and unemployment people, who we are paying to do nothing, and put them out there picking crops, we would have a whole lot less of them living off the government.

I'll bet flipping hamburgers would become pretty attractive.

Tony Kisner 6 years, 7 months ago

I love my cheap strawberries and lettuce. I also like paying $5.00 for 6 white tee shirts. Nothing wrong with undocumented workers, its not like they are slaves or anything.

Debbie Mangen 6 years, 7 months ago

If I make an illegal turn, I get a ticket. If I trespass, I can be arrested because it is illegal. What is so hard about defining the word illegal? It's against the law! Period. Send them back. If they want to live in the US, do it like every other immigrant has had to do. Come over legally either by application or fighting in our armed services, learn the language and pay the taxes that pays for all the services available to us, as US citizens.

deec 6 years, 7 months ago

Set up an Ellis Island-like immigration port, where all you had to do to get in is pass the health exam and not be a known criminal. It didn't take years and thousands of dollars when my, and your, ancestors came in. Plus, there was a lot of open land stolen from the indigenous peoples that needed settling. You could become a property owner by travelling to an "unsettled" area and living/farming the land a set number of years. No mortgage required.

kernal 6 years, 7 months ago

Seems a Federal Appeals Court has just ruled on blocking parts of that Alabama immigration enforcement law. So....

kernal 6 years, 7 months ago

One of you asked why the unemployed aren't taking the jobs in the fields to replace the illegal immigrants who have left Western KS. Think about it. Start with the fact that Western Kansas, as well as other agricultural areas, is sparsely populated, it's back breaking work that only the desparate and the forced labor people will do and it's minimum wage. If the growers did pay living wages, most of you commenting here would then start griping about the high cost of food. Who do you think are working in most of the beef and chicken packing plants? You can't have it both ways.

What we will have within the next year is higher food prices and more imports. Not only is the loss of the illegal immigrants going to cause it, but also the weather. Texas, which is second to California for our food production, is like an old dried up prune with no relief in site until some time in 2012 - they hope. Know where most of our produce will be coming from this winter? Mexico.

Cant_have_it_both_ways 6 years, 7 months ago

No biggie, we already do it with automobiles and education.

Brittanicus 6 years, 7 months ago


Every jobless man and women should join the fight, to assure that Rep. Lamar Smith "THE LEGAL WORKFORCE ACT” passes. Some of the positive aspects are that it will determine who has a right to settle, work in the United States. E-Verify is part of the H.R. (H.R. 2885, Only the open border and special interests coalitions have an agenda to stop its passage and will not go down without a bitter battle. It is estimated that 8 to 9 million illegal aliens are lucratively employed in the United States and dependent territories, and need to be replaced by the growing ranks of unemployed legal workers.

Taking illegal aliens out of American jobs they don't deserve has never been popular with many in Congress. Its utterly disgusting that some Members of Congress –either Democrat or Republicans-- give enforcement measures like E-Verify lip service, but they can't be counted on to act when they have the chance. What we're now seeing with the House Ways and Means Committee sitting on H.R. 2885, Rep Lamar Smith's mandatory E-Verify bill? It sure looks that way to patriotic Americans, Multi-millions of TEA PARTY members. Every legal immigrant, whether Black, White, Hispanic, Latino, Asian of any race.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT A person’s ethnicity, as the special interests wishes you to perceive? It’s about saving the state of Arizona, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, even Liberal California and Nevada—it’s about billions of dollars—IN YOUR MONEY—being extracted from you by the tax code to support people who have illegally homesteaded in this nation. It’s about overcrowded schools, closing hospitals and a clogged prison system. Here are four quick facts from NumbersUSA, the pro-sovereignty website.

Brittanicus 6 years, 7 months ago

1) 22 million Americans cannot find a full-time job.

2) Chairman Lamar Smith's (R-TX) E-Verify bill, the Legal Workforce Act, will free up millions of these jobs for the legal workers who deserve them.

3) E-Verify have cleared its biggest single hurdle, when it passed (without crippling amendments!) through the House Judiciary Committee.

4) Now, the House Ways and Means Committee must either agree to the bill or just send it directly to the House Floor for action. If Ways and Means doesn't agree to H.R. 2885, the bill will probably go nowhere, that is----it will die. 5)
5) President Obama’s “job act” that relates to “Construction” jobs must go to citizens and lawful residents. Other than U.S. farmers building Contractors and their sub-contractors are the worst perpetrators of hiring illegal aliens. Currently a third of US businesses and corporations are using E-Verify, to employ American job hunters. Prestigious skilled workers, should be given a high preference for a working visa, but—ECONOMIC—illegal aliens should not be accepted or tourists and other overstays who never return to birth place. A “Bracero” type program should be available for honest farmers, but with a tracking system so field labor returns home, when their visa expires.

The truth is, if Americans fail to get H.R. 2885 past the Ways and Means Committee, all the hard work this year will have been for nothing! NOTHING! We must get that committee to send this bill on to the Floor.

Brittanicus 6 years, 7 months ago

More about the Ways and Means Committee and E-Verify

You may ask, "Why does the Ways and Means Committee have jurisdiction over an immigration enforcement bill?. One of the greatest features of H.R. 2885 is the "No Match" letters to employers and the "Multiple Match" notices to employees.

These will identify illegal aliens using fictitious or stolen identities. They will lead to mass firings of illegal aliens who currently have jobs.

Both the "No Match" letters and the multiple match letters sections of H.R. 2885 are connected to the Social Security Administration. The House Ways and Means Committee has jurisdiction over those parts of the bill. If Chairman Lamar Smith is forced to strip out those provisions, MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS would have permanent access to jobs they have already gained illegally.


And why would the Ways and Means Committee be blocking this bill anyway? Do they have legitimate differences on policy issues? Is it out of spite or legislative turf protecting? Sure looks that way. Whatever the reason for them sitting on this bill, the result is millions of Americans left without work because illegal aliens are filling the jobs!

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE…are you content to see that happen? Let me ask it another way. Are you determined to get the ENTIRE E-VERIFY BILL, including the N0 MATCH AND MULTIPLE MATCH LETTERS, SIGNED INTO LAW?

Good. Me, too! At NumbersUSA, they are in total battle mode. They have the servers to send out free faxes like there is no tomorrow. They are pushing forward new technology to help in the effort. They are providing toll-free telephone numbers where we think they are needed. They are even advertising directly in the backyards of Members of Congress who carry the most weight on these decisions.

Study “ImmigrationCounters site for in depth details on illegal immigrations, such as statistics, jobs, Social Services and welfare and figures on incarcerations. REMEMBER THE CHIEF MAJORITY OF THE TEA PARTY, WILL NEGATE ANY CHANCE OF ANOTHER AMNESTY, OR ANY TYPE OF SHREWD ILLEGAL ALIEN CLEMENCY.

Brittanicus 6 years, 7 months ago

These reluctant politicians must be shown no peace, by our calls and free faxes, compliments of NumbersUSA. Contact Speaker of the House John Boehner (R-OH); House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA); House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) ; House Chairman of Ways & Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI); & Members of the Ways & Means Committee. You can additionally contact your own local Senator or Representative or federal politician at 202-224-3121 and insist on E-Verify. NEBRASKA, Rep. Berg, Rick (GOP) (202-225-2611) ; NEBRASKA, Rep. Smith, Adrian (GOP) (202-225-6435); LOUISIANA, Rep. Boustany, Charles (GOP) (202-225-2031); MICHIGAN, Rep. Camp, Dave (GOP) (202-225-3561) & (202-225-2031); KENTUCKY, Rep. Davis, Geoff (GOP) (202-225-3465); PENNSYLVANIA, Rep. Gerlach, Jim (GOP)(202-225-4315); KANSAS, Rep. Jenkins, Lynn (GOP)(202-225-6601); MINNESOTA, Rep. Paulsen, Erik (GOP)(202-225-2871); WASHINGTON, Rep. Reichert, Dave (GOP) (202-225-7761); WISCONSIN, Rep. Ryan, Paul (GOP) (202-225-3031)

You can additionally contact your own local Senator or Representative or federal politician at 202-224-3121 and insist on E-Verify.

One Old Vet saying, “Stand next to me and you’ll never stand alone.”


gudpoynt 6 years, 7 months ago

Suppose the Republicans get their way, and most undocumented workers leave the country.

Then suppose Republicans get thier way some more, reducing and limiting the availability of unemployment.

Suppose these two actions result in millions of formerly jobless Americans filling the void left by undocumented workers. And suppose that a significant portion of these people were Republican.

Would that be enough for Republicans to start arguing for a higher minimum wage?

jafs 6 years, 7 months ago


Republicans will continue to argue against that, or even against the idea of a minimum wage at all.

They seem quite good at focusing people's attention on other issues, social ones, in order to get votes.

gudpoynt 6 years, 7 months ago

Come to think of it, what really happens when a Republican goes on unemployment?

I mean, we have something like near 20% actual unemployment now, right? Surely a big hunk of those are (or once were) Republicans, right? Once they become unemployed, what happens?

Do they refuse unemployment on principle?

Do they continue on with their right-wing political identity, while living in a state of denial about the government handout they are taking?

Or do the more honest of them acknowledge the betrayal of their political identity and hate themselves for it?

Or do they simply renounce the right-wing political identity?

Surely one could not both accept unemployment while maintaining the right-wing political identity without the blatant hypocrisy causing some serious cognitive dissonance.

Any unemployed Republicans who subscribe (or once subscribed) to the Fox News political identity out there have an answer to this?

chootspa 6 years, 7 months ago

They know, deep in their heart, that THEY aren't the ones bilking the system and using it to just be lazy. Surely, it must be those other people on unemployment...

kernal 6 years, 7 months ago

Somehow, I've never heard of U.S. citizens beating down the doors for the menial labor jobs the Mexican illegal immigrants have "taken away" from U.S. citizens.

jaketh 6 years, 7 months ago

Lets start with illegals being sent home. Farmers in Western Kansas, Wyoming, California, Texas, Colorado & Alabama cannot find worker to pick their crops, vegetables & fruit. If that is case, be prepared for higher inflation & food prices. Each household will suffer even more. Recession will be even more tougher. Don't get caught up in the whirlwind.

Here is one instance from a farmer in Colorado. He is trying to do the right thing by hiring 25 local American workers. He paid them $11.25/hour, a fair living wage. 24 quit on the first day by lunch time. Only 1 stayed on the job & because he was the truck driver & not on onion picker.

The work ethic of American worker is not there anymore. Today's American workers are not the battle hardened Grand pas & mas of the Depression Era or the WWII Era. Essentially, American workers or kids have it way too easy so they have no reason to work. They are LAZY face it. Wake up & smell the coffee. It is easy to blame illegal for our own inefficiences. They are a easy scape goat. Its time for introspection.

Do we see a Latino/Mexican hanging around the soup kitchens on 10th & Vermont or pan handling on Mass St? NO. They work. They work 2-3 jobs. They work the menial jobs that no American workers want to do. They are not taking American jobs. Everyone needs to watch the movie, "A Day without Mexican." If American workers worked as hard as illegals, we would never have a Recession.

All of who who eat food, vegetables, fruit, sleep in hotels, drive on roads, eat at restaurants, eat meat is a damn hypocrite. WHO do you think cut your beef steak, chicken breast, pork chop? WHO cleaned your hotel room & plates? WHO built your house or the roads?

TongiJayhawk 6 years, 7 months ago

I call Bullsh*t, when they offer enough money, people will work! Quit crying about the price of food going up! Maybe we shouldn't have been taking advantage of the illegals to keep the food prices down! You don't think those lower prices are made up for when you figure in educating and providing healthcare to these folks? Or maybe we should let them take over all the auto workers and other union jobs so we can get cheaper cars, etc!

tomatogrower 6 years, 7 months ago

Exactly. We would be paying a whole lot more. You would still be paying for educating kids and health care, you would just pay at the grocery store, instead of through taxes. But I guarantee the grocery store would cost a lot more, than what you are now paying in taxes.

The right wing radicals think that illegals don't pay taxes? Do they not pay sales tax? Do they not indirectly pay property taxes through renting? If they are working with a fake SSN, they don't dare file taxes. So income tax is withdrawn from their checks, but unlike legal citizens, they can't put in claims for refunds.

The right wing radicals like to tell you the poor don't pay any income taxes, because of all the tax credits they receive, but illegals don't file for the tax refunds, so really they are paying more in taxes than if they were citizens.

jafs 6 years, 7 months ago

It's not a win for all of the unemployed Americans, though.

And, your argument would mean that we should keep the minimum wage very low, or eliminate it entirely - are you in favor of that?

SnakeFist 6 years, 7 months ago

The conservative's "follow the law" reflects an intermediate stage of moral development, while the liberal's "do what is right" reflects the highest stage of moral development. Following the law is not always the same as doing what is right. Just ask Rosa Parks.

Being in the country illegally is a misdemeanor; its not as though we don't have more dangerous and harmful criminals to focus on. More importantly, illegal workers - who make less than minimum wage, get no benefits, aren't unionized (conservatives ought to like that), and cost their employers fewer taxes than legal workers - help to keep the cost of produce and other products low for us.

tomatogrower 6 years, 7 months ago

Well, the right wing can't blame it on the Jews this time, because they are suppose to be protecting the Jews in Israel now, even though, they used to oppose supporting Israel. So they have to blame someone, because we all know that they can't blame greedy rich people. I mean they are real sure that one day those rich people will let them hang out and kiss their boots. Let's blame people who are poor. It's all their fault the economy tanked. If the legal and illegal poor would just go away and die, then there would be a right wing paradise. Of course, the trophy wives would be upset when they had to clean their own houses and change diapers.

tomatogrower 6 years, 7 months ago

BornAgainAmerican, please find a dictionary. If you do not have one in your house, then then use your computer. Look up the word "scapegoat". You are either a person who is benefitting from perpetuating scapegoats, or you are one of the dupes who follow along with this sort of Machiavellian strategy.

I didn't think you opposed hard working people who are trying to better themselves.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 7 months ago

There have been a number of studies that try to look at both sides of the ledger.

They pretty much all agree that there isn't enough verifiable data available to state it with any precision, but that it's almost certainly close to a wash-- in other words, taxes paid by undocumented immigrants is pretty close to equal to the amount of overall government spending they create.

tomatogrower 6 years, 7 months ago

Bozo, he can't blame the real estate flippers who got rich by artificially driving up property prices. He can't blame banks who created "interest only" loans, or the morons who took out these loans. Of course, some of those morons were the flippers. Those were just happy capitalist going about their business. It's so much easier to blame someone "different" who isn't in a position of power. I mean, if he blamed the people responsible, they might not let him in on their good deals, so he can become one of them.

tomatogrower 6 years, 7 months ago

Many of the drug cartels in Mexico make their money off the US citizens who do drugs. And those guys have the money to come and go as they please, and live quite well in Mexico. Most illegals are doing manual labor. Spend the money going after the drug cartels, not the farm workers.

tomatogrower 6 years, 7 months ago

Where is your denial that they don't also pay taxes.

camper 6 years, 7 months ago

"People are self-deporting,” Kobach said. “People are picking up and leaving.”

I'm speechless on this quote. Except maybe I can say that at some point we should think of ourselves as humans, all god's children perhaps. That quote above does seem mean-spirited.

camper 6 years, 7 months ago

Ok maybe I'm not quite speechless. Why is this guy taking credit? Many illegal immigrants are going because of the economy. Especially because of the lower demand for construction. Many are simply folding there cards. The last thing on their minds is the guy in the picture of this article header.

beatrice 6 years, 7 months ago

“People are self-deporting,” Kobach said. “People are picking up and leaving.” ...

... Arizona and Alabama for places like Kansas and Missouri.

tomatogrower 6 years, 7 months ago

So any illegal Canadians or Irish are ok, because they speak English. Your bigot slip is showing.

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