Archive for Monday, November 14, 2011

Neighbors are upset over plans for more apartments along Clinton Parkway

Neighbors who live around the Legend's Apartments at Clinton Parkway and Crossgate are somewhat upset about a proposed apartment complex planned.

Neighbors who live around the Legend's Apartments at Clinton Parkway and Crossgate are somewhat upset about a proposed apartment complex planned.

November 14, 2011


Don’t tell Lawrence developer Tim Stultz that the city’s apartment market is overbuilt.

His 224 one-bedroom apartments near Clinton Parkway and Crossgate Drive are all leased, and produce a waiting list of about 40 people each August. That’s why he wants to build another 136 units.

But don’t tell neighbors that live near the Remington Square development that they should have to live with more apartments. If approved, the project would bring the total number of apartments to more than 800 along the stretch of Clinton Parkway between Inverness and Crossgate drives.

Lawrence city commissioners at their Tuesday evening meeting will have to tell somebody something they don’t want to hear. Commissioners will consider a rezoning and site plan for Stultz’s Remington Square expansion.

Neighbors are fighting the project, and are urging city commissioners to say enough is enough.

“It is OK to have some of what they have done out here,” said Steven Hertzog, who lives near the site. “But now they are just inundating us with it. Now, it seems like it is being forced down our throats.”

The project is being recommended for approval by the Lawrence-Douglas County Planning Commission and the city’s planning staff, which says the development fits with the long-range plans that have been developed for the area. The city recently approved the Inverness Park District Plan, which removed apartment development as an approved use for sites right at the corners of Crossgate and Inverness, but allows for an increase in apartment density on the remaining land between the two corners.

Neighbors, though, said the additional 136 apartments will create everything from noise to traffic problems. The traffic issues are worrisome to some because of the proximity to Sunflower Elementary school.

“Traffic will create safety issues out here,” said Aaron Clopton, an area resident opposing the project. “This area always will be attached to kid traffic.”

But Stultz said he is proposing steps to minimize the impact on neighbors. Stultz has agreed to make the zoning of the property conditioned upon the fact that the apartments will never be larger than one-bedroom. Normally, multi-family zoning allows for a certain number of units, but each unit can range in size from one to four bedrooms.

“We don’t compete with the student housing complexes that rent by the bedroom,” Stultz said. “The people who come to us are tired of having a roommate.”

Stultz said the conditions he’s willing to place on the zoning will give the neighbors some certainty that the development won’t be turned into a more traditional type of student apartment complex in the future.

Neighbors, though, said they’ve grown weary of seeing past plans for the area fall apart. Many homeowners bought property next to the large tract of vacant ground between Inverness an Crossgate when it was approved to be a retirement complex. But those plans fell apart several years ago, and neighbors are unhappy that previous city commissions have allowed the area to become one of the larger apartment complex districts in the city.

“The city of Lawrence has let this neighborhood down,” Hertzog said. “The developers out here just keep coming back every few months asking for another rezoning. They’re just wearing the neighborhood down.

“They have a right to ask, but the City Commission needs to stand up and say the people who voted us in don’t want this anymore.”

Neighbors have filed a legal protest petition with the City Commission. That means the project will need to win four out of the five votes on the commission in order to move forward. City commissioners will meet at 6:35 p.m. Tuesday at City Hall.


RogueThrill 6 years, 7 months ago

Sssh, don't mention it because you can get a pretty good apartment here for around $500.

JayhawkFan1985 6 years, 7 months ago

Personally, I'd like to see increased density of residential development. It should be located along existing transit routes.

devobrun 6 years, 7 months ago

I moved to Larrytown in 1971 and found a POS apartment on Ousdahl for $150 a month. It was not good and I split it, but it sufficed.

I paid $0.30 per gallon for gasoline. I paid $3000 per year tuition........outta state.

Housing is the cheapest thing in this town.
And now we pay $500 per month for housing? That's 3X. And outta state tuition is 10X, and gasoline is 10X....

Mexican labor. KU professors are so busy earning money from grants and writing papers that they really don't teach. Undergraduate classes are either taught by grad students.....or the prof is just on a recruiting trip.....both intellectually and physically.

Tell Brownback, the regents, the chancellor and each department head: Hire Mexicans to teach classes. Your tuition increases can be cut. We will be the most cost-effective university in the nation!

Since every class is just a series of videos online and the tests are all survey-monkey bilge.....hire Mexicans to do this. They are cheap.

"Compare and contrast Locke with Hume" could be graded by Mexicans, or computers. Those notions are all useless in the world of Twitter and Lady GaGa anyway. Hire Mexicans. Make money. Pay the profs more and watch them on TV describing their useless research and the babes who do it. Yeah baby, do it.

Mark Jakubauskas 6 years, 7 months ago

""earning money from grants and writing papers"

Uh, KU profs don't earn any more than their regular salary if they get a grant. Some who are on a 9-month appointment can get summer funding, but those ona 12-month appointment don't get a bonus or anything.

And as for writing papers...most journals have page charges, which means the prof or the university has to pay the journal to have the paper published.

gudpoynt 6 years, 7 months ago

anti-intellectualism in the rough.

Keeping Kansas dumb, one inane comment at a time.

RoeDapple 6 years, 7 months ago

It's good to have choices. A forty year old apartment/tinderbox that hasn't met current codes for twenty-five years? Or a dilapidated 120 year old house converted to apartments (illegally?) close to campus but a 24/7 potential death trap? But wait! Another choice on the horizon! Brand new, up to code, safe, sane housing on the bus route with amenities like a pool, gym, tenant parking, etc. etc, etc. Oh, and for less money than the other options. I know where I would want my student child to live.

Build 'em!!

jesse499 6 years, 7 months ago

The people who live in the apartments that are there now go down our streets like it's a highway 40 to 50 mph where kids are playing and don't give a dam You want them let them build them where you live.Oh and don't try to go around the round-about when their coming because that's their private drive and they will run over you the yeild sign means speed up. As usual the city will not care about the people who live around this mess it's not Alvamar it's on the wrong side of the street.

RoeDapple 6 years, 7 months ago

You bet! If it becomes a problem I have no fear of stopping them and letting them know I am taking pictures and writing down tag numbers. If you think it won't work you haven't tried it.

JayhawkFan1985 6 years, 7 months ago

Everyone always thinks the other guy is the problem. I would bet that nearly all of us drive 5-10 mph over the speed limit in order to save 1-2 minutes on our trips. This definitely is NOT limited to people who live in apartments. Just so you know I have owned my own house for 20 years, but I did rent an apartment when I was younger. Fear and ignorance are not good arguments. The city of Lawrence should enact tougher development regulations that require a traditional street grid to distribute traffic across a network, integrate different land uses rather than segregate them, etc.

Alceste 6 years, 7 months ago

“It is OK to have some of what they have done out here,” said Steven Hertzog, who lives near the site. “But now they are just inundating us with it. Now, it seems like it is being forced down our throats.”

“The city of Lawrence has let this neighborhood down,” Hertzog said. “The developers out here just keep coming back every few months asking for another rezoning. They’re just wearing the neighborhood down.

“They have a right to ask, but the City Commission needs to stand up and say the people who voted us in don’t want this anymore.” +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mr. Hertzog might want to put the pipe down and understand Lawrence does bizness this way.

Frankly, it's great to see that generally well protected over there in East Topeka....errr...West Lawrence get to enjoy some of the costs of progress out and over there in Rich Guy Land. Anything to take just SOME of the pressure off of those of us who live in the core inner-city of Lawrence: We never see these East Topeka....errrrrrrr.....West Lawrence types sticking up for our "historical neigborhoods..... Let the sprawl impact on THEIR quality of life for a change. Suggest Mr. Hertzog appeal to the Koffee Klatch outfit.....Lawrence Association of Neighborhoods.....but if he don't know nobody....and if the doesn't take sufficient made from scratch ingrediants certifablly purchased from "The Merc".....he needs to recognize all this broo haa haa is HIS fault!

tomatogrower 6 years, 7 months ago

It's easy for us east siders to be bitter when we see the roads getting rebuilt there every few years, while our crumble.

Alceste 6 years, 7 months ago

72mph baby....72mph.....

"biggunz" that a Freudian kind of dealy bob attempt/effort to make up for some personal ummmmm....short comings? Kinda, sorta like them McMansion's are out East Topeka.....err.....West Lawrence way are? "Look at me!! I live in the newest sector of town where we're so fancy and high falootin we get every possible City Service while those rubes East of Kasold get diddly boo!!"....?? "I may not be able to make the payments like I'm supposed to and I may have to skip my property taxes every couple of years.....and I have these fancy Jane Bateman drapes because I don't want people looking in the windows to see I have no furniture....."

Then again.....out Lew Perkins and Mark Mangino and Bill Self, my, my......won't be ANY development of ANY sort out that way unless the Daddy Warbucks say it's "ok"; have to have plenty of available space for that fancy motor cycle and what not..... Nope....good ole Steven Hertzog is gonna have to take his medicine......or belly up to the bar with that ever so effective LAN group. Why here's their web site to asist all: documents they don't really meet too often though.

Flap Doodle 6 years, 7 months ago

My first thought after reading the headline was about YH.

blindrabbit 6 years, 7 months ago

The developer ought to have his developer father slash and burn the property prior to any further action. He has a recent history of doing so, having just destroyed an 80 acre plot near Clinton Lake and a 160 acre plot 1 mile north of the K-10/Farmers Turnpike intersection. Kinda reminds you of the Douglas County Bank overnight demolition of the block between 8th and 9th and Kentucky and Tennessee; also the nighttime plowing of the Elkin Prairie about 10 years ago.

JustNoticed 6 years, 7 months ago

Compton could help him get the fire started. He knows a guy.

Bob Reinsch 6 years, 7 months ago

I wonder how many apartments TIm Stultz has in his backyard? I live in the neigthborhood in question. I have to wonder everyday as I head to work or return home if this is the day I get hit by one of these college students barrelling through the roundabout 15 miles per hour faster than the posted limit. I've heard Stultz brag to his golf buddies up at LCC how noone can afford to buy houses anymore, so he's going to keep building his Potter's Field. Where's Jimmy Stewart to standup to this millionaire bully?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 7 months ago

"Is Tim Stultz's backyard zoned for apartments?"

Neither is the area in question here, but Stultz is trying to get that changed.

What would he do if someone tried to change the zoning next to his backyard to allow for a major apt. complex.?

gudpoynt 6 years, 7 months ago

"Is Tim Stultz's backyard zoned for apartments?"

Repeating what bozo said, for the sake of pointing out that you either didn't read the article, or you didn't understand it. Stultz is trying to get the area zoned for more apartments. RTFA.

I suppose you're in favor of the ability of developers with deep pockets to have just as much sway with the city council as dozens of people who actually live in the area, and who feel they would be negatively affected?

I suppose you feel that the financial means of one developer, and a market demand for his product, trumps the wishes of neighborhood residents?

I suppose you think one individual's right to grow economically, despite negative externalities for others, trumps the rights of others' to resist that individual's growth in an effort to avoid those adverse effects?

Alas, such is the predominant view among many conservatives of what capitalism should taste like. Which is a shame, because it puts capitalism squarely at odds with the idea of democratic justice, and it doesn't have to be that way.

nativeson 6 years, 7 months ago

The history of this tract of land has been a series of failures. The intial development plan was abandoned years ago, and a series of large complexes were built in the southern part of the area up against much of the residential areas behind it.

The proposed complex is aimed at a different market that is non-student. For the land uses available (not single-family zoned now), it is the least obtrusive. One topic that was not discussed is the attempts in previous years to rezone to a commercial use. The neighbors have always supported some type of neighborhood retail that would support the area.

Terry Sexton 6 years, 7 months ago

One really needn't be much of a swami to have pictured 10 or 15 years ago how this area would look today. Busy streets everywhere around a neighborhood with isolated entry points. It is what it is, which is pretty nice, but to own a home there & not expect changes to the surrounding area is IMO a little bit shortsighted.

jesse499 6 years, 7 months ago

If this guy builds apartments like his dad built houses they may not be standing in 10 years.

CardHawkFan 6 years, 7 months ago

I live over on that side of town, just down the street from the apartment complexes, and I jog past the area frequently. I also have a child that goes to Sunflower. I am all for doing something with that land. It sits right now as a large drainage ditch with scraggly, overgrown weeds and is extremely unpleasant to run by, not to mention the area is completely overrun by rabbits. It's kind of like the movie Birds, but with little furry critters...seriously, one morning on my 3-mile route from Wakarusa down Clinton Parkway, I counted 24 bunny rabbits. It is an eye sore and I welcome something else. I also have a friend who lives in the single-person apartments and it almost always quiet over there as are the apartments at Wakarusa/Clinton Parkway/27th. I am still hoping for that gas station at Crossgate. My family is small and income isn't much better, so I understand the need for smaller apartments that are actually affordable and decent to live in. Progress is progress.

tomatogrower 6 years, 7 months ago

Watch out for the killer rabbits. Monty Python proved they are quite dangerous.

jayhawklawrence 6 years, 7 months ago

I ride my bike by this area regularly and I don't consider it an eyesore. It is just nature. But I believe it could be improved, but not by building more apartments.

The city should listen to the home owners in this area.

There is a point where you can have too many apartments and then you begin to have other problems which are detrimental to a neighborhood. This area with its fine homes, great neighborhoods and a great school nearby could be damaged by over building of apartments.

It is one of the best neighborhoods in Lawrence and a hot spot for Halloween trick or treaters. I always took my kids to that area because the people are so nice.

If this is a contest between the needs of the people of this area and a developer, I think it is an easy decision.

dipweed 6 years, 7 months ago

Build it on the corner on top of where all those fire ants were.

asmcdaneld 6 years, 7 months ago

I live on the east side of Cross Gate, and was part of the original group who object to the original plans for developing the Getto. There is no need to change those plans, and the area does not need more multi-family residence. This is rediculous. The current prospectors in ability to profit from the land should not be burdened by the residential neighbors.

CardHawkFan 6 years, 7 months ago

Agreed on the Halloween, but a drainage ditch isn't nature when parts of it are lined with concrete. However, you do bring up a good point about possibly developing the area for other uses. I suppose eyesore was probably too strong. I too enjoy the neighborhood, but I much prefer the apartments to the retirement home that is constantly bringing ambulances down by where I live... it seems like once a week. That seems a little more detrimental, but nobody seems to mention that, and it isn't that I necessarily take issue with the home being there, just bringing up the point. Other than traffic, though, the majority of those apartment complexes have to be some of quieter ones in town and have met many residents who live there that say the same thing. Oh and by the way, I am a home owner in the area.

esj2003 6 years, 7 months ago

Quit having so many damn kids and we wouldn't need so many damn apartments.

somedude20 6 years, 7 months ago

I do not see what the big deal is if there is a need. People (not just kids) speed all the time in this town. Drive down Kentucky St by St. John's and watch the cars go speeding through a 20mph SCHOOL ZONE (which one could argue that speeding when kids are crossing the road to go to school is a bit more dangerous then going 10-15mph in a roundabout). With the way this economy is going many other people will be renting a 1 bedroom apt not just kids (I work with many older people and many of them move to a small easy to take care of space to save money or when a spouse passes away so it ain't just kids, kid) Again, I do not live in that neck of the woods but drive it often. I am sure it causes some problems but the ones talked about here sound very petty.

Mark Thompson 6 years, 7 months ago

First, the point that people speed everywhere makes it all right for it to occur in this particular area of town is inane. Finally, to reduce valid concerns of safety, property value, erosion of public trust, and kowtowing to the interests of developers who prize profit over public interests as being "petty", is irresponsible.

jesse499 6 years, 7 months ago

It's petty tell some child gets killed by some one going 20 over on a narrow street with cars on both sides like 24th. That the city police come down once a month (going over the speed limit by the way) maybe.We are petty enough that we do not want more cars going faster and increaseing the chance of that child being killed.I'm sure sorry if you think that's being petty but I really don't care I'm going to bitch tell someone listens.

Mark Thompson 6 years, 7 months ago

Why should developers who overpaid for a property (bad business decisions) be able to continually revisit the planning commission and city council to ask them to modify existing zoning so that they can then turn a profit? This series of poor decisions has resulted in an impact on the surrounding neighborhoods in the form of diminished property value, increased traffic, and safety concerns. Yes, some of the apartments may look good now (not all), but what will they be in 20 years? How long before the Getto property becomes a ghetto property? Some green space would be an asset to both the neighborhoods and the existing apartment complexes. Come on City of Lawrence, do the right thing for your citizenry,

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 7 months ago

I want a nuclear waste dump, and I want it right next to your house. Is that OK, as long as I buy the lot?

jaywalkinhawk 6 years, 7 months ago

I live in this area as well and before they build they need to look at traffic flow as a LOT of kids walk to school in this area. With the new gas station/convenience store and mixed development being built on the other side of this proposed development the increase in traffic probably will be substantial.

I get that Lawrence needs the revenue, but please stop and consider the future impact of more apartments in this area. At least research it a bit before making the decision.

dncinnanc 6 years, 7 months ago

I live in Remington Square Apartments, they're pretty nice for the money. For under $500/mo, I get an ample sized one bedroom with access to a pool, (small) gym, & laundry room. It's also well-lit and seems like it's populated with "young professionals" like myself. The only downfall is how far away it is from downtown, makes it a real pain in the butt when you're trying to save gas and maximize post-work time.
Having said that, compared to places near downtown this place is a steal... someone like myself can't afford $800/mo and higher rent for a tiny open studio, or doesn't want a run down sh*thole whose main entryway is a sliding glass door... When will they start building AFFORDABLE housing close to downtown?

Alceste 6 years, 7 months ago

So, that means you live where you can afford to pay the rent. Do you really think "they" want someone who can't afford even just $800 for rent to live amongst "them"? Don't fool yourself. "They've" got you living right where "they" want you to live.

Too, there's plenty of "affordable housing" throughout the boundaries of our precious "Downtown".....all over East Lawrence. When you write "affordable", don't you mean "new and fancy and marble countertops and dishwasher and pool and health/fitness club and parking and new and fancy? But I don't want to have pay for it....."?

mom44 6 years, 7 months ago

I appreciate dncinnanc's response. How about finding a way to make downtown housing more affordable? Lawrence has PLENTY of empty apartments already. I live in the area mentioned in a single family home, in the 6 years that we've lived here, we have gone from single family housing being the majority to being outnumbered by apartments 3 TO 1! No more, please.

blindrabbit 6 years, 7 months ago

asmcdaneld: Just caught on to your capitalizing of Getto in your post.

Richard Heckler 6 years, 7 months ago

A person can find a rental anywhere in Lawrence any day of the week. There are 100's of places available.

"Don’t tell Lawrence developer Tim Stultz that the city’s apartment market is overbuilt." This is a stupid position to offer up.

How much more economic displacement does city hall expect the taxpayers to cover by way of increased sales taxes,property taxes,user fees,secret sales taxes,TIF"s etc etc etc.

New development is not standing on its' own nor paying back. If it were taxpayers would not be subjected to increased sales taxes,property taxes,user fees,secret sales taxes,TIF"s etc etc etc.

How much more do taxpayers feel they can lose? Taxpayers you decide:


angelsunwall 6 years, 7 months ago

After reading all the above posts I wonder why no one has mentioned the fact that building this addition creates jobs for many people working in the construction field who like everyone else are trying to support their families when most of us know just like many other jobs construction jobs are not near as numerous as they were five years ago. Yes, it would be nice if there were affordable one bedroom apartments closer to downtown. NO they do not have to have all the fancy fixings but it would be nice if they were up to code. Since this doesn't seem to be an option then I think it is great that Stultz is filling a need that many young professionals are looking for because they don't want to spend an arm and a leg on some fancy apartment with all the amenities one can imagine. I believe most people are always going to find something negative to complain about because that is who they are. Unless you live out in the country in the middle of at least 10 acres we could all find something that we don't like such as traffic, too close to a bar, police sirens, neighbor’s dog, loud kids, dang street light shining in bedroom window, loud parties, grouchy neighbors, etc............... That is what comes with living in town especially a college town. I think it is great that Stultz is providing work for those in construction when times are slow, affordable one bedroom apartments for those on the waiting list, and it sounds like he has made many compromises to try and appease many of you that apparently continually wake up on the wrong side of the bed and live just to be as negative as you can be. For those that complain about the speeders around the round about.....those are just irresponsible drivers that probably drive like that everywhere and unfortunately it will take them hitting a car or pedestrian for them to hopefully straighten up.

Richard Heckler 6 years, 7 months ago

Lawrence is one flooded market across the board. There is evidence all over. A flooded market is why Baur Farms has been failing since day one. The junk food plaza may indeed fail.

Put this apartment complex to a vote. The need has not been demonstrated.

All taxpayers are impacted by decisions such as this. This is what makes all taxpayers stakeholders.

What else should be put a vote?

  1. The $100 million sewage treatment plant

  2. Spending $200-$300 million on commuter train service instead of an SLT that will not end traffic congestion anywhere.

  3. The $15 million rec center = the need has not been demonstrated A. On the Framland site B. or nowhere C. This new center will be expensive to operate in which cost will escalate year after year.

  4. Any new annexation - Annexation definitely increases taxes without blinking an eye.

  5. Another new hotel - the need has not been demonstrated. All that will happen is any new hotel pulls business from existing hotels = not creating new business = economic displacement

  6. Any decision USD 497 puts forth regarding school closings,consolidation or building new schools. The board acknowledged that the district can in fact afford to keep existing schools so why blow USD 497 tax dollars on projects that are not necessary.

Flap Doodle 6 years, 7 months ago

Wow, you're dragging out all the not-so Golden Oldies today!

classclown 6 years, 7 months ago

Development of any nature is always okay as long as it happens elsewhere and the people that live there should stop being crybabies and allow progress to happen.

Except for when it happens in MY area. Then it's downright criminal what they want to do. We don't need progress that badly. Not at the cost of our collective soul.

Paul R Getto 6 years, 7 months ago

Settle down, merrill: You are confusing government systems again. If we voted on all the things you want on a ballot, then you would most likely gripe about the cost of all the special elections, or that the election didn't go the way you wanted. We already elect people to make these decisions.

Bill Lee 6 years, 7 months ago

Why not require a specific occupancy rate in current apartments before approving new construction? It's too late in this case, but this issue will return soon enough.

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