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Archive for Thursday, January 27, 2011

Democrats in Kansas House propose reform that holds businesses accountable for hiring illegal immigrants

House Democratic Leader Paul Davis of Lawrence on Thursday explains a proposal by House Democrats that he says will reduce the number of illegal immigrants in Kansas. The measure would require businesses use the federal E-Verify database to confirm residency status of workers, and crack down on employers who knowingly hire undocumented immigrants.

January 27, 2011

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— House Democrats on Thursday proposed a measure that they said would reduce illegal immigration in Kansas by focusing on employers.

“As long as illegal hiring continues in Kansas, illegal immigration will continue to be a problem,” said Rep. Valdenia Winn, D-Kansas City.

The proposal would require that businesses use the federal database E-Verify to confirm the residency status of workers.

House Democratic Leader Paul Davis of Lawrence said focusing on the workplace makes sense because people don’t come to the United States illegally to vote or attend a university.

“They come here to work,” he said.

The legislation also would enact penalties for employers who knowingly hire undocumented workers and prohibit those employers from bidding on government contracts for two years.

Similar proposals have been opposed in the past by the Kansas Chamber of Commerce and other industry groups, who say the bills would expose businesses to too much liability.

The Democrats said they believed their proposal was a common-sense approach. Davis criticized proposals sought by some Republicans to install an Arizona-type law that would authorize local law enforcement to arrest suspected illegal immigrants.

Comments

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

What are the penalties? They have to be large enough to actually impact the meat factories' bottom line.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 10 months ago

This is the first state with the practical approach.

Daniel Dicks 3 years, 10 months ago

Chamber of Commerce will stop this measure, but nice try. I am all for it.

jayhawkmarauder 3 years, 10 months ago

better yet why doesn't the city of lawrence verify its sub contractors aren't using illegals

Mean_Green 3 years, 10 months ago

Many who cross the southern border have criminal records from cities within the U.S. Others have been previously deported earning a felony conviction. Many come here so our health care system will treat their communicable diseases. Ask the family of BPA Brian Terry who was killed by an illegal alien carrying an AK-47 in Arizona if most aliens are just coming across to work. Many other nationalities cross other than the "innocent" Mexicans. People from Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt, China, Korea, Brazil, all of Central America, Congo, and Cuba have all been caught on the southern border.

FloridaSunshine 3 years, 10 months ago

@Libery_One...You've got to be kidding!! Who is going to keep tabs on all of these incoming people, make sure they are healty, with no criminal past, and that they are maintaining a job??? I think we have enough of a task keeping tabs on our own citizens. There should have been a moratorium on immigration long before now.

foppa 3 years, 10 months ago

What do you mean who? The same people who are supposed to be keeping tabs now! If you take the need for coyote's and illegal immigration out, then it will be easy (or easier) to verify if a person has committed a crime or has a decease. By the way this conversation reminds me a bit about this book the book "Writing Security: United States Foreign Policy and the Politics of Identity" by David Campbell. You should read it.

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

If they have a "decease" I don't think they will be worrying about immigrating anymore.But I agree we already have a Federal agency to do this task.

FloridaSunshine 3 years, 10 months ago

Oh...I forgot!!!! And they do SUCH a mahhhvelous job of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

Your exclamation point key is stuck.,

FloridaSunshine 3 years, 10 months ago

@deec...You sure keep up with my question marks and exclamation points, don't you? Makes me wonder how you have to time to do so... I can understand making comments on the subject at hand, but to remark on question marks and exclamation points? You have too much time on your hands perhaps?

FloridaSunshine 3 years, 10 months ago

@deec....By the way...I'll use as many question marks and exclamation points as I choose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I sure hope that's ok with you...I wouldn't want to ruin your day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course, you don't even have to look at my responses, do you?????????????????????? If you see my avatar, just pass it up and go to the next comment...easy enough, huh?????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FloridaSunshine 3 years, 10 months ago

@deec.....Have a lovely day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

Actually I work from home. Would you happen to have anything worthwhile, like maybe some facts, to support your clever little comments? Most of us learned proper punctuation in grade school. But to each his own. Anybody seen artichoke around lately?

drake 3 years, 10 months ago

This will do nothing but impose large fees on the very people that you are asking to hire more people. E-verify charges for all new hires and not just the brown ones. The database is very incomplete and there are tens of thousands of people born here that are not in it which makes them ineligible for work.

If it costs me more money to hire people I'm going to do less of it.

pace 3 years, 10 months ago

If you are hiring illegals you are contributing to every problem I care to fight . Drugs wars, mobsters, enslavement, unemployment, . So take your threat and swivel in the wind. Your threat that if we bust the corporations and the industries whose business model rides on using illegal workers. they won't be able to make jobs. I would prefer them to make license plates.. so I don't feel like trading your "ability to give jobs" for a ride on every dime that other people pay. I agree Congress must pass a legitimate working visa program. Most first world country have one. Using legal workers replacing illegals will cost the agricultural, building, etc industry and corporations more. They will cost American working families and tax payers a whole lot less.

somebodynew 3 years, 10 months ago

Liberty_One you are just delusional.

Bushloather1 - It won't just be the Chamber of Commerce it will be the business friendly Reps that stop this.

FloridaSunshine 3 years, 10 months ago

@Liberty_One....It doesn't make someone "a pretty sick individual" just because they disagree with you!! But I know your "type"...so that remark is no surprise.

FloridaSunshine 3 years, 10 months ago

@Liberty_One....You most certainly did...read it for yourself...you're the one who typed it!! Do you want me to type it back to you for proof? How childish to deny something you said when all can see it in print...print that YOU typed. And enough of the popular "political jargon"...I'm about over it..."straw man" ranks right up there with "spin" and "IMHO"....makes me want to puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

somebodynew 3 years, 10 months ago

No not because you think the US should allow more immigration. I take it you have a job that is safe, or maybe you have enough money to provide for all the services for just anyone who wants to walk accross the border. There are limits in place for reasons - I DO wish they were enforced a little better, but that is a different discussion.

FloridaSunshine 3 years, 10 months ago

@Liberty_One.....See how you are? Just calling people idiots for no really good reason...the person only called you delusional. He/she could have called you MUCH worse!!
Smile now...and have a great day.... :~)

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 10 months ago

No, no, no, no, no.

People are coming to Kansas illegally so they can vote and send their kids to college. Getting hired for a job is waaaaay down the list.

Ask any GOP legislator if you want the truth.

sr80 3 years, 10 months ago

how true the dems are biting the hand that elected them.very good captain k

tomatogrower 3 years, 10 months ago

Hmm, most of the counties with high immigrant rates are in Western Kansas and are represented by Republicans. They must be doing a lousy job of voter fraud, or maybe they would be represented by Democrats.

I hear lots of people say that the illegals are taking American jobs, but I don't see any of them, including the unemployed, packing to move to Western Kansas to work in the meat packing industry. Why is that? I'm sure the meat packing people would be glad to hire you, so they wouldn't be criticized for hiring illegals. Didn't Colbert and farm workers, many of them immigrants, offer the unemployed Americans their jobs? And only 7 took them up on the offer.

http://www.kansas.com/2010/06/25/1376608/farm-workers-offer-jobs-to-unemployed.html

Richard Heckler 3 years, 10 months ago

If one believes an employer is hiring immigrants illegally why not boycott that employer?

pace 3 years, 10 months ago

I have watched construction companies go from guys who worked for the same company for years go to temporary teams that need a supervisor who is bilingual. I have no right to go on their job site and ask, Are these workers legal? Boycott what " the highway, the food , the apartment house. No, we need law. There should be fines and prison for the bosses. It may be too late to do this, it is entrenched in so many business plans.

pace 3 years, 10 months ago

Not good for biddness is right. One of the many fights lost during that period of legislation was creation of a real temporary working visa program to allow temporary or seasonal work. The other was the enforcement against the bosses, billions to chase the illegals and to build fences but very little interest in chasing the money. States need to put teeth in holding firms responsible for who they hire. States have the right to insist that employers hire legal workers. On a sympathetic note without worker visas , access to "legal" workers on a seasonal basis, the farmers will watch the crops rot in the fields.

Mike Wagner 3 years, 10 months ago

ABOUT TIME THEY STARTED DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM!

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 10 months ago

If you think this is going to get past the Republican controlled legislature you're delusional.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 10 months ago

This is true. it would have to get past the state house (which it won't) before it even got to the state senate.

pace 3 years, 10 months ago

This is smart. They have been creating special law targeting illegal immigrants instead of targeting illegal immigration is hitting the baseball with a tennis rachet. Jobs. Consider building is one of the many jobs that corporations and industry are using illegal immigrants to fill. They use illegal immigrants because the can pay them less, and cheat them easier. If a state is serious about reducing illegal immigrants it should be stumping for a working visa program which most first world countries have. It allows for temporary immigration labor for many agricultural, etc jobs.. It also spot lights the corporations and industries who are using the illegal status of workers to cheat them and to cheat the labor laws. The use of illegal workers also puts the legal worker in the postition of giving up their rights, it is like a mafia asking the legal workers to sink to the illegal status just to work in America. It is time for congress to quit reading the constitution to itself, for states to quit looking at making " social template laws" and to just make laws that address the problems. They probably won't because illegal immigrants isn't a problem for the money people. It is a problem for working families. 'So they attack the problem by attacking the illegal immigrant, not their bosses. They blame the sieve at the border on those coming for the jobs. The crack down should be on the guys making the big bucks. They blame the iron filaments not the magnets. Harassment laws only help the bosses, oh maybe that is the driving force. The same group promoting harassment laws instead of working visa and immigration reform are cutting education to working families. I would like to hear them tell their kids that education isn't important for demanding status in the work force. The portal for illegal immigrants is a portal that invites gangsters, drugs, guns, terror. We need smart law to narrow the portal, but unhappily smart law follows the money, not the victims. They spend a lot of money to chase an ever increasing flood of people coming for illegal jobs. Less illegal jobs, smaller the portal. Combine smart laws with smarter border control laws. They spend lots of money running ads to blame the workers and the illegal immigrants, not the legislators or the corporations. Decades of repeatedly ignoring the industries and corporation part should come to an end. It is like sending our tax money to corporations in the black to support their drug (labor) habit.

tomatogrower 3 years, 10 months ago

Republican opposition to this seems pretty hypocritical. Wouldn't this create a lot of jobs for the unemployed?

booyalab 3 years, 10 months ago

The Republicans approach this as a legal issue, which it is. The Democrat approach, while it's good that it works as a disincentive, is effectively holding businesses ultimately responsible for law enforcement. Imagine if the police stopped arresting people and instead held businesses accountable for hiring people who broke the law. It's a very roundabout disciplinary measure.

jafs 3 years, 10 months ago

Except that hiring illegal immigrants is a crime.

Would you support increased taxes for revenue for the government to do the work instead?

booyalab 3 years, 10 months ago

Since hiring illegal immigrants is a crime on a federal level and now Kansas democrats want it to be enforced on a state level, since federal agents are obviously not doing their job, aren't we increasing the workload for state government- just on regulating business as opposed to the illegals themselves? You don't just make a law and hope for the best. Somebody's got to enforce it. So hold the immigrants themselves accountable. At least we have infrastructure in place to simply ask for ID. Holding businesses accountable would probably create an entire new department. As for increasing tax revenue, I support the Laffer curve theory. I would also cut funding for about any program you could throw a stick at.

Carol Bowen 3 years, 10 months ago

Hmmm. How often have I heard that business can regulate itself.

booyalab 3 years, 10 months ago

I would rather see the Republican proposal because there are more issues stemming from illegal immigration than just losing jobs. But it's a start.

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 10 months ago

Riiiiight, they aren't here for jobs. They are here for free government health care and to commit crimes.

Never mind the data that fails to find any immigrants receiving improper public assistance.

booyalab 3 years, 10 months ago

The U.S.- born children of illegal immigrants are eligible to receive welfare. This is an obvious expansion of the welfare state that stems from illegal immigration. I don't know how you can argue with that.

FloridaSunshine 3 years, 10 months ago

WHAT??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

FloridaSunshine 3 years, 10 months ago

@deec....Ha-ha! It's supposed to indicate that I cannot believe the comment by "ibroke"....
But I think you knew that... :~)

Clark Coan 3 years, 10 months ago

I'm sure the Kansas Farm Bureau will have its lobbyists lobby against the bill as well. The KFB, which is essentially an insurance company representing big agribusiness such as ConAgra, has over a dozen lobbyists roaming the halls of the State Capitol Building. Kansas farmers have found that undocumented farmworkers from Mexico are willing to do stoop labor and are easy to control and under pay.

tomatogrower 3 years, 10 months ago

Actually I agree with Liberty on this one. There is no reason not to make it easier for these people to immigrate legally, the ones who want jobs. Then the only ones who were coming across the borders illegally would be the ones coming with drug or intent on illegal actions.

Scott Morgan 3 years, 10 months ago

Why not focus on both, the illegal imigrante, and bossman hiring them?

Still stunned from the lib side on showing I.D. to vote. If sticking to a strict interpretation of no need for I.D. what do we check E-Verify status against? "you telling the truth Hernando?" Si-sir... OK you el knucklehead go on in and help yourself.

Boy Howdy the thought of non Latino terrorists getting a welcome mat from some of you frightens me. Generally libs begin invoking Canada as an example to follow. Why the silence on this issue?

scott3460 3 years, 10 months ago

There is no (recognized anyway) Constitutional right to a job. The right to vote is Constitutionally protected.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 10 months ago

It's curious. I had a family member who worked for a national construction company that constructed large warehouses and multistory office buildings. They had hired work crews and went from state to state all over the US. The work crews were made up almost entirely of illegal immigrants. My family member became bi-lingual out of necessity. My family member did the payroll and all of these illegals had SS numbers and other work ID provided by the company. This was over ten years ago and the company is no longer in existence. It went down the drain with the rest of the economy. However, it begs the question; if this company did this, how many others out there are doing the same and getting away with it? Believe me, these people are not getting their fraudulent documentation from just anywhere. If the The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 isn't going to be enforced (and it's pretty weak when all a business has to do is to is "attest" to the legality of it's employees) and people want immigration control than a two pronged attack against the illegal and the businesses that hire them makes sense.

jonas_opines 3 years, 10 months ago

"There is no reason not to make it easier for these people to immigrate legally, the ones who want jobs."

Of course there is, it's called "entitlement." One based on nothing that one has done yourself, but what one's parents. . . did and where they did it.

jafs 3 years, 10 months ago

What about the high levels of unemployment among American citizens?

They want jobs too - shouldn't that count for something?

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 10 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 10 months ago

Whenever I think of immigration, I wonder "How Many". The U.S. now has 300 million people. How many immigrants can we reasonably absorb while maintaining our current lifestyle? This would include immigrants who will work but also their children who will go to schools, elderly who will need additional care, etc. To those who want to increase immigration and to those who oppose immigration: How many immigrants would you envision coming here and how should we best achieve that number?

FloridaSunshine 3 years, 10 months ago

@jhawkinsf....As I mentioned earlier somewhere on this or another thread, there should be a moratorium on ALL immigrants...and it should have happened a L-O-N-G time ago!!! We need to concentrate on keeping our own citizens healthy, educated, and working. It would certainly help if we kept our country's nose out of every other country's business and quit sending billions of dollars elsewhere. If we kept all that money here "at home", and also quit sending up those shuttles, we could actually make this country a wonderful place to live for everyone. I know that's just a dream...but it would be incredible! Imagine...

jafs 3 years, 10 months ago

That's a very good question.

A reasonable immigration policy would analyze a variety of factors, and try to arrive at a desirable level of immigration, and a discussion of what kinds of people we want to have coming here as well.

Has that ever been done?

Oh, and of course, those numbers and skills would probably change over time, as conditions in the country change.

beebo 3 years, 10 months ago

This would be GREAT. However, currentlly, if you run a social security number verification on an employee (because technically, you can't run it BEFORE they're hired), which ironically you're required to do, you CANNOT fire them if it comes back as not a match. (federal regulations) It's easy to blame the employers, but many, who would like to NOT hire illegals, have their hands tied by the feds.....The federal labor regulations are just ambiguous enough to result in employers (who adhere to them to avoid lawsuits later) hiring illegals.....reform of these regs is needed first. And good luck with that.

beebo 3 years, 10 months ago

If it comes back as not a match - then you're required to inform them in writing and tell them to go have it fixed. You cannot fire them for it. Crazy.

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

Ks. is a right to work state. You can fire people for no reason, or some other reason other than an nunmatched SSN.

beebo 3 years, 10 months ago

You're not an employer....easier said than done. Right to work (while I agree whole heartedly with the concept, believe me) doesn't trump federal regs....

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

Would you happen to have alink showing that workers can't be fired for improper SSN's?

KS 3 years, 10 months ago

This sounds like an excuse for not wanting to control the illegals at the border. Let's just shift the responsibility to someone else. You know, like the businesses. They have all the money anyway. Let them pay for it. Why should we patrol the border when with this plan, someone else can tackle the problem. Dumb idea.

Shardwurm 3 years, 10 months ago

While you're at it let's repeal Kate Sebelious' in-state tuition for children of illegals.

eric1889 3 years, 10 months ago

This appears to be a brilliant political move by the Democrats. It's a great idea, and something that should have been done a long time ago. Republicans are going to have get real shifty for their reasons to vote against the bill after all the rhetoric about immigration in the last election. I just hope that Kansans will see that always voting (R) is not getting the job done in our state.

seriouscat 3 years, 10 months ago

Finally some sensible pro-active rather reactive action on the part of KS Dems. Keep those thinking caps on guys!

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