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Archive for Tuesday, February 8, 2011

Kobach testifies in debate over whether undocumented college students should continue to get in-state tuition rates in Kansas

February 8, 2011

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KU graduate says she would not have attended college if not for in-state tuition for undocumented students

Alaide Vilchis, a Kansas University graduate, was in the Capitol to urge legislators to reject a bill that seeks to repeal a law that allows undocumented students pay the lower in-state tuition. She said she couldn't have gone to college without the law. She was interviewed prior to a scheduled hearing on the repeal bill. Enlarge video

K-State graduate supports in-state tuition rate for children of illegal immigrants

Andrea Prado-Spalding, a Kansas State University graduate, has benefited from a 2004 law that allows some children of illegal immigrants to pay the lower in-state tuition rate. Secretary of State Kris Kobach is seeking to repeal the law. Prado-Spalding was interviewed Tuesday prior to a scheduled hearing on the repeal bill. Enlarge video

Kansas City attorney testifies in favor of repealing in-state tuition for undocumented students

Kathy Brown, an attorney from Kansas City, Mo., on Tuesday testified to the House Federal and State Affairs Committee on why she thought the state should repeal the law that allows in-state tuition for some undocumented students. Enlarge video

— Pleas from both sides of the immigration debate were expressed Tuesday as a House committee considered repealing the law that allows some undocumented students to pay the same lower tuition rates as legal residents of Kansas.

“We are here because we want to learn and make this state better,” said Alaide Vilchis, a 2008 graduate of Kansas University.

Andrea Pardo-Spalding, a Kansas State University graduate, said she came here from Mexico as a child with her parents. “My heart is rooted in the land of opportunity. I just want to give back all the blessings that this great nation and state has given me,” she said.

When they graduated from high school, both women took advantage of a law passed in 2004 that states individuals who attended high school in Kansas for three years and either graduated or received a GED could pay the in-state tuition rate. They also must pursue citizenship.

Approximately 430 students are benefiting from the law.

Both women said they could not have attended college if they were forced to pay the higher out-of-state tuition rates.

But critics of the law have tried for years to repeal it. They say the law encourages illegal immigration, adds to the burden of taxpayers and is unfair to foreign students who are legally here to attend school.

Secretary of State Kris Kobach told the House Federal and State Affairs Committee that, “The state of Kansas is giving an incentive to remain unlawfully present in the United States.”

Kobach, a Republican, said he was testifying not as secretary of state but as an attorney who is an expert on this issue.

Kathy Brown, an attorney from Kansas City, Mo., said, “I’m appalled at the endless invasion of illegal aliens into our country. We have enough entitlements that they are already able to claim and I certainly don’t want them to be able to continue to receive in-state tuition in violation of federal law.”

The hearing on House Bill 2006 was scheduled to continue on Wednesday.

Comments

Kontum1972 2 years, 8 months ago

so whats next....DEATH SQUADS?

during w2 the clown with the funny mustache wanted the pure race.... did we destroy him for no reason...is this what we have become?

The new Master Race....

What side did Mr. K's father fight on?

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periodicreader 3 years, 2 months ago

Kathy Brown IS NOT an attorney: http://www.jccc.edu/files/pdf/9-16-10-Ralston-Report-and-Board-Resolution.pdf

In addition to Ms. Brown's fraudulent misrepresentation that she is licensed to engage in the practice of law, she is not even a Kansas resident.

What is her interest? What is her expertise?

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Bananajoe 3 years, 2 months ago

A mind is a terrible thing to waste......but it is worse to loose a dollar

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Paul R Getto 3 years, 2 months ago

"tennesseerader (anonymous) says… I have never understood this stupidity. No wonder Kansas taxes are so high. Any non-Kansas citizen should not be allowed in-state tuition. Kansas cannot afford this any more." TR: Just an aside for the record. Yes, Kansas collects taxes and we are about in the middle when compared to other states. Also, the portion of income used for taxes to support education has been pretty stable for the past 50-60 years. The 'conservatives' choose to believe otherwise, but the numbers speak for themselves.

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Paul R Getto 3 years, 2 months ago

ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies… "you are wrong.....I realize you could care less and are happy to punish a child for the sins of the fathers, but I think that attitude is disgusting and unAmerican and shameful." ==== IVA: Good point and it's almost biblical, isn't it? Punish the children for the parents' sins. This is why the Jews 'invented' an eye for an eye, to prevent the slaughter of entire families when the silly little brother messed up and commited a crime. Guess this fits in well with Governor Sam's Muscular Jesus, the union-busting business man. http://harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525

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quercus1 3 years, 2 months ago

This is how it starts folks. You get a few, perhaps well intentioned people who think they are being humanitarians or that the costs are not too great. They excuse the illegality of foreign nationals breaking our laws and instead of punishment, they reward them. Soon you have a situation where more and more illegal foreigners come to take advantage of your state's generosity. This is exactly what happened to California.

While your state's illegal alien population is small compared to other states, do you really want to add more incentives and increase the numbers? I am sure Texas, California and Arizona would love for their illegal alien populations to relocate.

If your a farmer and have a group of birds eating the seed of your freshly planted fields, do you offer even more feed to attract more birds or do you try to discourage them?

Instate tuition for people who are not even legally in this country is wrong on many levels.

First it devalues the worth of American citizenship. If any person who comes to this country regardless of legality can obtain the same privileges and rights as those who were born here or migrated legally, why should Americans then follow the law and be good citizens? Citizenship becomes worthless, if everyone has the same rights.

Second it attracts more people willing to break the law. More freebies or lower costs for illegal aliens is an attraction.

Third it is a slap in the face to any and every legal resident who wants to attend college. For every illegal foreign national that is able to go to college because it is more affordable, that illegal takes the place of a resident or out of state student. Contrary to what some believe, universities and colleges have a limited number of slots available for new students.

Fourth, When illegal aliens get offered instate tuition, there is almost always some softhearted or ethnically motivated legislator who then wants to offer these aspiring students other monetary advantages. Low cost loans and scholarships then are going to foreign nationals instead of American students.

If the people of Kansas want to experience the full impact of what illegal alien enticements do, they only need to vacation in Southern California. California once had almost the best of everything. Good jobs, great roads and one of the best education systems in the country. Do to the influx of immigrants and illegal aliens, the state now has almost 40 million people, piss poor roads and is next to the last in education. Unemployment is high and wages are low. The state is broke.

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Ali999 3 years, 2 months ago

Kansas will get some of the best educated janitors and fast food workers in the country, because it does NOT have the power to give illegal alien students the right to work in this country.

By the way, in case it's escaped your notice, about half of those identified in the ICE audits of Chipotle were illegal aliens, while the other half were LEGAL workers. Who says illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans won't do? And since when won't AMERICANS go to college and do professional jobs? Why should THESE jobs go to illegal aliens? For the record, I've taught overseas in countries poorer than Mexico and my students have to jump through immigration hoops to come here and pay high student rates. In fact, the U.S. has a record 691,000 LEGAL foreign students this year who did just that. Now, what makes illegal alien students "special"?

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deec 3 years, 2 months ago

Be nice, or she may accuse you of violating her First Amendment rights.

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Bob Forer 3 years, 2 months ago

That fake attorney Kathy Brown is spooky. Watch the video. She can't even look the video camera "in the eye."

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Scott Morgan 3 years, 2 months ago

A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon it adds up to real money.

Senator Everett Dirksen

Personally I'm becoming more and more pessimistic over the future of this nation. Some of us will live well, as I. I feel for millions and millions of Americans who expected something more for their sacrifice. They earned it.

I find you dems who wish to give the farm away over libguilt disgusting. Absolute pure d disgusting. Money not grow on tree. Oh my, do not cut Arts, do not cut this, oh don't cut poor illegal immigrants children waltzing through the Land of Oz.

On the back of..............who? They do get loans, the do receive financial aid, and whomever spread the false rumor was untrue and a liar. Thousands and thousands of illegal immigrant students receive local and federal financial aid.

libguilt has now gone beyond our borders it seems.

The next time you sigh patting backs while shedding another painless tear over illegals sucking our tax dollars, give the poor lady or older man making a decision on what to eat, or how they can fix the old Ford just to go to the grocery store a thought.

No raise in Social Security for how many years now? Think why. Yet we find money for? No problem, we have money for college.

Those fine folks are disappearing, those people who wouldn't belch a baby in L.A. knowing they did it for free on rich gringos bill. It aint the rich, nor the middle class American who suffer. It's our true poor, not to be confused with a 20 year old gal who drops a couple of kids in L.A. on our dimes.

Pessimistic. You betcha. The Greatest Generation is being........

Replaced by generations of Americans who cry out in pain when gas goes over 3 bucks. Not those who sit and shiver because heating the home costs too much. No do not think of those. No think of giving more tax money to people who actually break the law.

Believe it or not there are colleges in South America. Central America too, even Mexico. They just don't give education away to foreigners.

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ophiuchus 3 years, 2 months ago

"Kobach, a Republican, said he was testifying not as secretary of state but as an attorney who is an expert on this issue."

An expert! Just what we needed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7lBJPMun2A

/ yeah, round up 430 promising students AND their art portfolios, and march them to the sunny side of the Great Wall of Kansas.

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Kontum1972 3 years, 2 months ago

that quote has been here longer than most of us....

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Kontum1972 3 years, 2 months ago

hey monkeyhawk.....are u a graduate student?

Tell us where this quote comes from......

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

what have u done for America lately...any militiary service or Peace Corp, etc.

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deec 3 years, 2 months ago

I agree about our ancestors. I know mom's dad came through Ellis Island, but the Irish kin who came over, did so before there was an Ellis Island.

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jrlii 3 years, 2 months ago

You know, when I went to KU back in the '70s, I don't recall any reference to citizenship or immigration status in the rules: The requirement was residency. Period. Graduate from a Kansas high school and you were presumed to be qualified for in-state tuition.

In any case the US immigration system is immoral: When my ancestors came upwards of 200 years ago, a lot of the time the port captain didn't even bother with copying down the passenger manifest.

Where do we get the right to demand that would be Americans jump through all kinds of hoops just to get here? A quick background check which does not turn up a criminal record should be more than enough!

Indeed, I think anyone graduating with a masters or doctorate degree in the US should receive citizenship whether they want it or not!

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Jimo 3 years, 2 months ago

"Kathy Brown, an attorney from Kansas City, Mo."

SHAME on the Journal World. Brown is NOT an attorney. Good God - if some lunatic came along proclaiming herself Emperor of the United States would the paper just print this claim without qualification? This is how newspapers lose their credibility.

The Orly Taitiz of immigration.

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july241983 3 years, 2 months ago

I wonder how much money this bill is going to cost Kansas every year. I doubt very many of these 430 students could afford out-of-state tuition. So, I don't see this bill as saving the state money. I see this bill as taking away 430 students who are paying tuition without the assistance of federal or state financial aid. If they go to KU or K-State, that's about $8,000/year that they're paying. That's millions of dollars.

The reason Washburn is allowing students from Missouri get in-state tuition is because the more students you have, the more money the universities bring in. Letting students pay in-state tuition does not hurt the university or the state if the alternative is that the students do not attend a Kansas school. So, don't think of this bill as your pocket book versus some undocumented college kid's pocket book. This bill will take money from the state general fund and deny educational opportunities to these kids. It's lose-lose.

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CorkyHundley 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm still trying to pay off my out of state college bill and now I am suppose to help pay off some kid that is "Undocumented"?

un·doc·u·ment·ed (n-dky-mntd) adj. 1. Not supported by written evidence: undocumented income tax deductions; undocumented accusations. 2. Not having the needed documents, as for permission to live or work in a foreign country. n. A person not having proper documentation, especially for immigration

  1. undocumented (lacking necessary documents (as for e.g. permission to live or work in a country); "undocumented aliens"; "undocumented tax deductions")
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verity 3 years, 2 months ago

From the article: "Kobach, a Republican, said he was testifying not as secretary of state but as an attorney who is an expert on this issue."

Is it just me, or is there something wrong with this? An inherent conflict of interest perhaps? Aren't we paying him to be a full-time SoS?

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alexjandra 3 years, 2 months ago

EVERYONE PLEASE READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Undocumented students CANNOT receive federal or state financial aid (pell grants, student loans, work-study, etc...). If they decide to continue on to college, they must pay for it out of pocket or with scholarships. Keep in mind, many scholarships also ask for SSN. So, as you can see...NO, you the taxpayer do NOT pay for their college educations, they pay for it themselves. Please do a little research before posting on a topic you know very little about. Also, many undocumented immigrants DO pay taxes. That's why they have Tax ID #'s, for those who don't have SSN's. Another thing, when they file their income taxes, they are not able to get any tax refunds, so that money the government keeps. Stop being so greedy. Taxpayer this, taxpayer that... please, i'm a taxpayer too.

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Beth Bird 3 years, 2 months ago

No - They should not get a discount, they should be deported. They are here illegally - they need to go back to their country of citizenship and apply for citizenship to the US or apply to attend as an international student. It's that simple.

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geekin_topekan 3 years, 2 months ago

Kobach: Self proclaimed expert. Sounds like what's-his-name over at Haskell, on climate change.

Anyway--Tennesseereader, the children of illegal aliens have fulfilled all the residency requirements and receive in-state tuition. The reason non-residents don't is because they do not contribute to our state. The immigrants parents have worked, paid taxes and support the local economy while out-of-staters have not.

Illegal contribute, people from outside Kansas do not. It's pretty simple.

Where's your outrage over Washburn's recent decision to allow Missourians to attend as in-state contributors, even though they don't? These are the people who actually siphon money off of the state of Kansas. The children of illegals attending as in-state, cost Kansans NOTHING. Washburn throws out the welcome mat to non-contributors.

The Dream Act is the only immigration policy that actually works. It costs American's nada and provides a clearer pathway to citizenship for productive and ambitious Americans.

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Agnostick 3 years, 2 months ago

"Kobach, a Republican, said he was testifying not as secretary of state but as an attorney who is an expert on this issue."


So, even though he was elected by a majority of the citizens, he can just step out of office whenever he wants?

How does he do this? Turn his jacket inside out? Put on a second face?

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overthemoon 3 years, 2 months ago

One obvious solution would be to put an end date on the DREAM act. Students who are in the US and over 5 years of age as of 2011 (or some to-be-determined date) may work toward college admission and residency. Those who don't meet that requirement are given plenty of advance notice to 'make other arrangements'. Its not fair to cut off those who have worked hard and honestly to achieve their dreams and its also not fair or right for parents to come here illegally and hope to buck the system for 12+ years.

In the meantime, we'd do well to spend the money we waste on bombs and guns on helping to develop quality education in those places where it is not even a dream.

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jhawkinsf 3 years, 2 months ago

As the old saying goes, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". The main argument in favor of The Dream Act is one of fairness. It's not fair to burden the children with the bad decisions of the parent. It's true, we should not punish children when their parents' crime. However, The Dream Act creates two unfairnesses. First, what do we tell people who are patiently waiting to come to this country legally? They are playing by the rules yet those who have broken the rules will be put at the front of the line. The Dream Act only sanctions that place at the front of the line. Those still waiting will have to wait longer. Certainly this will encourage others to break the rules, come here illegally so that their children will get to the front of the line. The second unfairness is this, at some time, when these children are in school, in the service in med. school, or otherwise being productive members of our society, their parents or siblings will be picked up by the government for deportation. These are the people who brought their children into this country. These are the original lawbreakers. We, the government, our government (us), will be accused of breaking up families. After all, we will be sanctioning the stay of the children while at the same time deporting the parents (or other relatives, brothers, sisters, grandparents, etc.) Well, I don't like being put in this no win situation. Wouldn't it be equally unfair if we required of Dream Act recipients that as a condition of their stay they assist in the deportation of their own parents? No one likes being put in this lose/lose situation. I certainly don't. The only solution to that problem would be to allow relatives, caregivers, significant others, etc. of Dream Act recipients a blanket amnesty. That's the next logical step in the Dream Act debate. That's the hidden agenda of The Dream Act. And the overwhelming majority of American citizens are opposed to this. My above comments concern the "fairness" argument. If another argument can be made, one that addresses the concerns raised here, then perhaps a solution can be found. But I don't believe the argument that it is fair is sufficient.

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William Weissbeck 3 years, 2 months ago

430 individuals currently benefiting from in-state tuition is not breaking the budget. 430 people who may insult your sense of right and wrong are a pittance compared to the droves of people who insult you everyday by blowing red lights, jaywalking, speeding, cutting you off, fudging on their tax returns, getting their property tax assessment lowered because they know someone, etc, etc. These 430 are hardly a title wave (they aren't even a ripple). These people aren't causing you your problems. Get on with you lives and go after the Kochs, the bankers and the insurance companies, and their brethren, and stop picking on the weak and defenseless, the straw men thrown up to divert you from the real crimes going on around you that rob you every day. Quite frankly, reading some of your comments, it is obvious that Kansas needs all the eduacated college graduates it can get. We can't afford to lose these 430.

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Stephanie Anderson 3 years, 2 months ago

Easy for many of us to throw out righteous remarks about being citizens and how this is OUR country...blah blah blah. Try for one second to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Or even try being grateful for one second that you're not living with the constant consequences of your parent's decisions. You're not superior simply because you were lucky enough to be born here. How are in-state tuition rates hurting you? This has absolutely nothing to do with social services.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 2 months ago

I expect that after repeal of this law, Kobach will next demand that the cerebral cortex of any student who took advantage of it should be removed, since any knowledge residing there was obtain "illegally."

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overthemoon 3 years, 2 months ago

This article makes it appear that the only people testifying for the bill were students who had benefited from it. Were there no other people speaking about the positive aspects of the program? Is Kobach donating his time spent 'as an attorney' while he is an elected official who has made his xenophobic agenda quite clear? Who is this attorney from Missouri?

This is a huge and complex issue, it deserves more in-depth reporting. As was pointed out in debates on the DREAM act, many of these students have spent most if not all of their lives in the United States. Many of them have excelled in high school, making better grades and working harder than a lot of their 'natural born citizen' classmates. They know the importance of their education better than most and make the most of it. These are young people who are illegal because of decisions made by their parents, and they are left in limbo and fear in spite of their best efforts to 'do the right thing'. Is there not some way to allow them gain the citizenship they have earned and recognize that they have valuable contributions to make?

Its high time that the reality of changing demographics in the world are accepted...white people of European descent are not going to be in the majority or in control of the world and here in the US for much longer. The numbers just don't work that way. Perhaps it would be wiser to figure out how to make sure the future majority of people are educated and respected instead of desperately trying to suppress the inevitable changes.

I am not saying we cast a blind eye on illegal immigration, but we seem to have not figured out that two centuries of proclaiming that America is the best dang place on the planet makes people desperate to come and try to give their children the future we promise.

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Scott Morgan 3 years, 2 months ago

You folks are starting to sway me. If you look at Kobach's photos you can see horn bumps just above his ears. He casts no shadow either.

Any state which allows laws to be broken is encouraging such. Well, we paid for the high schooling of those 430, why not just keep giving and giving. Weeeeeee this is fun isn't it. Oh, sorry Mrs. Kansas resident for 50 years, we will be cutting your services.

Oh, and thanks for the 50 years of sales, property, and income taxes too.

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Flap Doodle 3 years, 2 months ago

"Kobach testifies in debate over whether illegal alien college students should continue to get in-state tuition rates in Kansas" Fixed the headline for you.

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monkeyhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

“We are here because we want to learn and make this state better,” said Alaide Vilchis, a 2008 graduate of Kansas University."

How has she made the state better since graduation? Is she now magically a US citizen, or merely an undocumented graduate?

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monkeyhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

"Both women said they could not have attended college if they were forced to pay the higher out-of-state tuition rates."

Could they get "in-state" rates in Mexico? Can I?

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cato_the_elder 3 years, 2 months ago

This is a classic example of what happens when a law that never should have been enacted in the first place is nonetheless enacted by short-sighted lawmakers, and then it's close to impossible to repeal it when the positive experiences of the relative few who have taken advantage of it are rolled out before a legislative committee.

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One_Name 3 years, 2 months ago

In-state tuition. Applying a discount for a customer who hasn't played by the rules like everyone else. I wonder why people who follow the rules have a problem with that...

Let's hear from the cash-paying customers, not the government loan-borrowers.

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PalinPalms 3 years, 2 months ago

Kobach isn't just an attorney who is an expert on this issue, he is an expert on every issue, even the ones he invents.

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tennesseerader 3 years, 2 months ago

I have never understood this stupidity. No wonder Kansas taxes are so high. Any non-Kansas citizen should not be allowed in-state tuition. Kansas cannot afford this any more.

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