Archive for Saturday, August 27, 2011

Panel predicts ‘gloomy’ future for Kansas education

August 27, 2011


Public education advocates painted a bleak picture of funding trends for education in the state during a public forum Saturday at Lawrence Public Library, 707 Vt.

“It’s very gloomy,” said Mark Desetti, director of legislative and policy advocacy for the Kansas National Education Association.

Desetti was one of three panelists who spoke to a crowd of about 60 at the event sponsored by the Douglas County Democratic Party. Kathy Cook, executive director of Kansas Families for Education, and Vanessa Sanburn, Lawrence School Board member, joined Desetti on the panel and expressed similar sentiments.

Sanburn focused on the declining per-pupil state funding figures over the past few years. Since 2009, per-pupil funding has dropped more than $600 in Kansas, including a reduction of more than $200 this past year.

“These cuts have been very painful,” Sanburn said. It all leaves teachers working harder with less resources, she said.

The panelists also predicted some heavy political battles looming for the next legislative session. Cook predicted that Republican lawmakers will make a strong push for school voucher initiatives, as well as potential changes that might ask local municipalities to raise a larger share of revenue for education.

Cook warned the public to be wary of such moves that may be based on politics, but not what’s best for Kansas students.

“Reform many times is a coded word,” she said.


devobrun 5 years ago

Panel predicts gloomy future for Kansas education. So says the headline. And then in the first sentence we include "funding" in the sentence.

Big difference between education and funding for education, doncha think?

The worst public schools in the nation are the highest funded. Let's all move our kids to Detroit, whatdya say?

Let's see: Event sponsored by democrats. Quote that funding is gloomy is by the union representative.

Sorry Shaun. This report is not a news report. It is democratic party reportage. It is a newsletter article from the folks who decry the reduction of funding to public schools. It is OK to do this, Shaun, but be honest about it. This is a thoroughly biased group presenting their views. Say it, Shaun. It is the democratic party and union view of education in the state.

The last sentence in the report is: “Reform many times is a coded word,” she said.

And a newspaper report many times is coded propaganda. Shaun, your coding is easily broken. The Republicans are yanking funds away from the collective. The Democrats don't like it. That is the story, Shaun. All there is to it. But be honest, for the love of Pete.

Lemme help you: "Panel predicts gloomy future for Kansas education" Should read NEA Officials and Democrats Agree that Reduced Funding for Education Presents a Gloomy Picture.

chootspa 5 years ago

Let's see what tuition is at your private school. Looks like it's around $11,550 with books and fees, and that's only 75% of the cost with donations and a sale making up the rest, so that's around $14,312 per pupil, correct? Ok, I'll be fair and include that 10% of your tuition goes to financial aid, so it's only $12,881 per pupil.

Kansas spends on average $12,330 per pupil. Kansas has to educate all students, including special ed students with expensive care needs, students with free or reduced breakfasts and lunches, students needing bus service, students with behavioral issues, etc. You only need to educate high performers who statistically were never in danger of being undereducated. By your "funding" argument, your kids are probably the worst in the city, right?

Hey, it's fine to have a philosophical love of the voucher, but don't call it reform. It isn't. And don't pretend that school funding doesn't matter.

jhawkinsf 5 years ago

Yes, public schools have to take children with special needs, children that will cost more. But the public schools also have to parent too many children where the school/parent partnership has broken down. Teachers and administrators spend too much time raising children while too many parents drop Johnny off at the school's doorstep and expect a finished product in the end. Somebody needs to tell those parents to stop having children if they cannot raise them properly. Too many classrooms are going at the pace of the slowest learners and at the slow pace that disruptive kids set. Too many children are being cheated out of a quality education in the name of mainstreaming.

chootspa 5 years ago

I believe currently the message is that they have to have those children no matter what. Planned Parenthood funding, anyone?

That aside, you can't call it "reform" when all you're doing is writing off students.

devobrun 5 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years ago

So, if they could all enroll at your school, would that solve the problems you list?

Or do we need a final solution?

jhawkinsf 5 years ago

We've become a society where it isn't nice to say to people that their behavior is wrong. It is wrong. It's very wrong and we should be shouting it from rooftops. And not because their behavior hurts them, and by that I mean the parents, it's because they are cheating their own children. The problem is that single parenthood is bad for children. Having multiple children by multiple partners is bad for children. Having more children than you can afford is bad for children. Engaging in activities that will likely lead to the above situations is wrong because you are likely to put children at risk.
What adults do is none of my business, until the time comes when the consequences of their decisions are forced upon me. When that happens, I feel compelled to put my feelings out there, even if those people are uncomfortable hearing my opinions. But the bottom line is that too many parents are behaving "wrong" and they have overwhelmed the schools system's ability to compensate. The problems are not the schools, it's the parents. Final solution, no. Responsible parenting, yes.

devobrun 5 years ago

Hell yes, if they could all enroll at my school the problem would be solved. That is precisely the point. As for your question: No.

tomatogrower 5 years ago

It isn't the schools that are teaching them dependence, it's the family. When I was little I didn't realize how hard my parents worked to feed me. As far as I was concerned, the meals were all free. Later I found out, but that had nothing to do with the school I attended. In fact, the town I lived in my family was looked down upon, because they were working class people. They made more money than the store clerk downtown, but had less status, because they got dirty when they worked.

I did get what amounted to a "free" education. We had to pay very few fees, because there weren't all these whiners who don't want to pay taxes, because they want to buy a new car every year. The same whiners who wouldn't be where they were without the education they received from public schools.

I would like to thank the previous generation who paid taxes to defeat a brutal dictator, to educate me, to build a highway system for travel, who sacrificed for the next generation. Too bad your values have been lost. And the conservatives are always talking about going back to the good ole days. The wimps couldn't have handled the good ole days.

Can you imagine the Tea Party members being asked to ration food and gas, so they could defeat al queda? They don't even have guts enough to pay for the war, but they will wear a flag pin and put a "Support the Troops" bumper sticker on their car. If we had to go up against a Hitler now, we would lose. And not because people are on welfare, but because of the attitude of those who put the "me" ahead of their community and country. You know, the faux patriots.

Armored_One 5 years ago

Swing that stick a little harder and faster. I think some of them ducked. It's much easier to sit back, point fingers and be an armchair quarterback, so to speak, than to actually stick your nose in the muck and mire.

Those values you spoke of, though, aren't lost. Some of us out here still have them and live by them and try to pass them on to our kids.

devobrun 5 years ago

And it isn't working as well now. Because the family, and the values are fading away. I teach 37 students in a high school every (school) day. On terms that value trust, honesty, and respect. It works. And the schools of Detroit don't teach those principles, and it isn't working.

Loss of values. Loss of principles. Loss of discipline and most of all: loss of respect for yourself, your fellow humans, and your teachers.

Give that to students and the problems in the education system are solved. It isn't more is more respect for humanity. Yours, theirs, and everybody's. It just seems so simple, doesn't it? Start to respect one another.

parrothead8 5 years ago

Your post is full of snobbish complaint, but you never seem to have a viable solution. Public school worked just fine for at least a billion Americans over the last century, many of whom started out in less than ideal circumstances but didn't wind up robbing liquor stores or selling drugs.

chootspa 5 years ago

It's interesting that you try to turn around my point that your per pupil spending is more than the public school by claiming that poor and disabled kids deserve to be less educated because they'll all just end up being on the dole, anyway. You don't at all come off as a classist snob. Poverty is not destiny, and not all public schools are warehouses.

devobrun 5 years ago

Poor kids come from poor families, right? It isn't the kid's fault. It is the parent's fault. Start by blaming them.

Single moms are poor. Society should make single moms feel like they made a mistake. MEN who sire kids should be absolutely taken into the public eye. Where is the newspaper link to men who sire babies who don't take responsibility for their seed?

Quit the SunflowerHorizons,, WellCommons links and replace with I don't even know if that exists. It should. Pictures of male deadbeats....useless penises who make babies and go away.

Picket their houses ala the march on Washington. I have a dream...a dream where my daughters have a father.....where are you liberal folks? Freedom at last, thank God, freedom at last doesn't mean that people can just go around and make babies that they can't take care of.

Protect the babies of the world. Make deadbeat dads be responsible. Now. Then we'll teach them...and it won't cost so much because you are feeding the baby you sired.

chootspa 5 years ago

You do realize that rich kids have divorced parents, too, right? In fact, most single parent families are not below the poverty line. Just ask the new SRS director about leaving his wife and kids in Florida so he can come up hear to work with Brownback. You also realize that not all poor families are divorced, right?

It's like you're having a contest to see if you can out classist yourself with each post.

You also realize that there are other solutions to single mothers living in poverty than shaming them? In fact, paying for high quality preschool would kill two birds with one stone. The mother would be able to reenter the workforce, and the child would be statistically more likely to succeed in school.

pittstatebb 5 years ago

Well, I am a Republican who thinks we should have held schools harmless as the then Senator Brownback pledged. That did not happen, we lost 200 more per student. My school lost two positions, I took a pay cut, and I now have to serve more students in the same time frame.

And yet, we will make it happen. Now we just want to be left alone. We have a budget surplus, stop cutting education without a reform plan. Vouchers do not reform public education, we already have school choice. Unless your child is a serios problem child, any district will take them as an out of district student (they still get their $ for them).

Please get out of Douglas, Johnson, etc Counties and see how budget cuts have affected smaller, poorer districts.

Crazy_Larry 5 years ago

Wait a're a teacher, and a republicrat? So you voted for this, Brownback fiasco? Wow. Did you bump your head or something? My grandpa told me a long time ago, "a working person voting for a republicrat is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders."

Kookamooka 5 years ago

Yeah. I'm with Crazy Larry. Teachers who voted for Brownback (usually on the basis of the abortion issue and other religious positions) have to reap what he has sown. How could you do that to our children?

Brownback always assumes that some private donor, corporation or church will rush in and pick up whatever social agency he decides to drop but they don't. The fabric of our communities is ripped and there is no one left with resources who wants the headache.

I hope everyone is learning from this every day. That man will destroy our state.

Shaun Hittle 5 years ago

I think we're pretty clear that this was a Democratic Party sponsored event. I think anyone reading this article would get that it was a story about one group and their view.

And this was an event, not a detailed feature on the education battles. Had another party sponsored a similar event I imagine we'd have covered it as well, and the article would feature what that particular group was saying.

devobrun 5 years ago

Right Shaun. Report it that way.
"Panel predicts ‘gloomy’ future for Kansas education" is the headline. I know that the editor writes the headline, but your first sentence and the body of the report is quite clear that there is a political aspect to the entire report. Doncha think that a quick ackowlegement of the political bias of the entire forum would be appropriate?

If this was a pro-Brownback forum.....would you report it as "Reduced funding of Education to Save Millions"? Would you simply identify the participants as representatives of organizations.......without ever saying the "conservative" word?

Think about it, Mr. Hittle. Is there such a thing as unbiased reportage? Maybe you don't want to admit your opinion. Maybe you are unaware of your perspective. You have one. Go for a walk and think about being a reporter. Good luck with growth in your life, in all areas of endeavor. I mean it, I hope you grow and learn about yourself and who your are. Just don't lie to yourself. If you think Brownback is full of .....say it. Or don't, but don't think that you can report on a biased political event as if it is some kind of non-union, non-democrat, discussion in the library. It isn't a discussion of the works of Rembrant, Mr. Hittle. The participants in the forum might be evil and wrong. Or they might be Angels sent from above.......nah they are politicians. All of 'em. Politicians, Shaun. Politicians. And they jerked you and your editor around. And you bought it. Sigh.

Oh BTW, never forget to identify conservative forums either. Information is the goal of reportage, not swaying opinion.

chootspa 5 years ago

Apparently you were the only one confused by this article, which clearly stated that the opinions came from a panel and identified the affiliation of the panelists and sponsors for the event. I think you might want go on a walk and do a little thinking on what it means to be an educator.

newmedia 5 years ago

As usual, just reading the articles headline can tell you about 95% of the time who is doing the complaining. No news here.

question4u 5 years ago

"Big difference between education and funding for education, doncha think?"

Wow! It's the correlation that matters, not the difference. Smoking isn't lung cancer. How logical is it to argue that the difference between them means that smoking doesn't pose any health risks?

Even if there were no correlation between increased funding and improved outcomes, where is the logic in assuming that decreased funding will not lead to poorer outcomes?

Logic has nothing to do with it, does it?

devobrun 5 years ago

The headline promised a gloomy future for education, then the story immediately defined that as funding for education. And now you obfuscate the error by bringing in the concept of correlation, as if correlation means cause and effect visa vie smoking.

Wow, mixed metaphors and erroneous logic all in one package. Nice work. If increased funding caused better education, then decreased funding would lower education results. But this relationship isn't clear at all. Educational outcomes are mostly correlated with the socio-economic group served by the school. Educational outcomes are greatly influenced by the values of the families of the kids. If educaion and respect aren't valued in the home, school performance suffers. When a preponderance of students in the school come from such social backgrounds, school becomes a battle ground of kids gang banging, skipping, and being disruptive at every turn.

Money doesn't change that situation one bit. Paying teachers more, having more technology, fancier money increase changes bad behavior. And when disruptive students dominate a class, you don't have class. Learning is gone and teachers become prison guards.

snitty 5 years ago

"visa vie" -- The errors in your logic correlate to your mixed-up education. lulz

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years ago

So, if your school were to cut tuition by 20%, it would have no effect on educational outcomes? (and out of your sense of fairness, you should also be willing to take a 20% cut in salary, too.)

devobrun 5 years ago

In my school, I come into the classroom and hold up my hand. That's the signal for students to get quiet and get busy. If somebody has a question, and they often do, they raise their hand and politely ask.
When I get started on my lecture, or their homework assignment from the previous day, they stay quiet, or ask questions. They are 16 years old and have the sense of respect like 25 year old adults.

Usually I cover everything I need to cover with 5 or 10 minutes left in class and students immediately start their homework. If not done at the end of class, they at least have a plan and know what to do to accomplish the assignment. Rarely does an assignment leave the students struggling. As a result, I rarely have to give up planning time, or after school time to help the students. When class is finished, the students leave and call out: "Thank you Dr. B".

Yes bozo, I would take a 20% cut in pay to work in teacher's paradise. Indeed bozo, I took an 80% pay cut to move from industry to this job. Damn glad I did, too. Because the students are respectful. You ask any teacher and they will tell you that they would like a class of respectful students more than anything else.
And that comes from a culture that values respect. Disrespect for teachers, other students, or themselves is dealt with. No sloppy clothes. No sloppy eating at the lunch tables. Absolutely, positively no bullying. Boy, you should see the size of Maxwell's silver hammer that comes down if a student is seen bullying. And the teachers respect the students right back.

And when a student can't find it within himself to value those ideals, they are asked to not return.
There's a military school in Salina. Or they can torment their public school teachers who get paid more to put up with the lack of respect.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years ago

That sounds great. But it doesn't solve the problem of kids and schools where such an atmosphere doesn't exist. And neither does just sending them "away," which is apparently your preferred solution. After all, unless you want to propose a "final solution," there is no such place as "away."

devobrun 5 years ago

So change the atmosphere. And then make "away" really bad. People will suffer. Not like the middle ages, but they will suffer.

And as far as final solution is concerned.... it is happening. It is called bloods versus crips (and dozens of other altera familia).

Turn away, bozo. Cling to liberal solutions that kill. I feel sorry for you. You must be agonizing about the riots in London and the deaths in the big cities this past summer.

I didn't promote it. Did you?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years ago

"People will suffer. Not like the middle ages, but they will suffer."

And this is what it all comes down to for you, isn't it? You want those who don't measure up to your standards and expectations to suffer. What's behind this Schadenfreude of yours?

"You must be agonizing about the riots in London and the deaths in the big cities this past summer."

Bad things happen. These didn't directly affect me, so I'm not agonizing over it, but neither am I indifferent. Compassion won't kill you, and it neither is it a sign of weakness, Devo. You should try it sometime.

devobrun 5 years ago

I want people to: Man up. Buck up. Show up and do the job. Shut up and do something. Lay it on the line. Stop talkin' and start chalkin'. ..... There's a million of them.

"You want those who don't measure up to your standards and expectations to suffer"

Life is about a lot of things, bozo. Love, hate, indifference, work, play.....and suffering when things go bad. Pay the price. Don't use drugs to avoid the reality. Start again.

Not in today's world. Somebody else is to blame and the government must make things right. And that notion is bleeding us all. And the deficit grows, and the debt grows, and the payment is coming due.

I don't seek suffering, bozo. It finds me, just like it finds everybody. The difference is that I rise up and defeat it. And you look for somebody to fix your problem. Not me, bozo. I work and I succeed. You lose, bozo. You know that you lose. You always have and you witness for the losers and you love and you work for the losers.....and you get from the government.......and you still lose. I am almost tearful saying these words. You lose.

Defintion of lose: to come to be without.

You are without, bozo. You lose because you have become without. Without the will to win. Without the gumption to succeed. Without the knowledge, wisdom, and intestinal fortitude to face the world by yourself.

Shut up. You are leading others into your demise. The demise of the collective.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years ago

That was downright creepy. But what else is new?

chootspa 5 years ago

So you're saying you'd like to take a pay cut in order to lower the tuition at your private school? I find leading by example to be the best way to prove your point on this one.

devobrun 5 years ago

I make $19,000 a year and I have no I can serve young people who deserve it.

Go away.

chootspa 5 years ago

And the truth is out. Your school pays more per pupil than the average Kansas school, yet they pay you considerably less than a teacher would earn in a public school, which is a position you're not qualified to hold. I guess the extra money goes to chairs and equipment.

Your school doesn't take on any challenging students. It picks only those who are statistically likely to succeed in any school environment, public or private. On top of that, you can kick them out if they're the least bit difficult.

No matter how you spin it, you're just not making the case that funding doesn't matter.

Armored_One 4 years, 12 months ago

You are an elitist snob responsible for foistering the concept of class division and materialistic success superceding ethical and socital accomplishment.

In short, yer not worth the oxygen it took to read your posts.

Clinton Laing 5 years ago

Yeah, but there's no correlation, dim-bulb. Check how other states are doing. There is, in fact, a correlation no one in this town wants to hear about: states with unionized teachers do significantly worse on standardized tests. But, hey, that doesn't fit the narrative, right? 'Cause it HAS to be funding that drives performance... there's no other way!!!

pittstatebb 5 years ago

Just like Finland, with a higher percentage of unionize teachers than KS, does better. There is not a single correlation that can be used to drive school reform. Not spending, not union/non-union, not testing, not poverty levels, not school vouchers.

PS: The best state in the union on standardized tests (NAEP/TIMMS) . . . Massachuttes. Want to bet what percentage of their teachers are unionized? By the way, using NAEP scores KS is in the top ten.

PSS: If you do not know what either of those test are, then you probably need to become better educated about education and education reform.

devobrun 5 years ago

There might be other ways, c9. But they don't match up with some people's world view. Inclusion, diversity, and non-judgmentalism do not promote alternative educational modalities. The social structure that exists in the education school in universities spends most of its time looking for ways to obfuscate teaching to students who don't want to be there.

If a school fails, blaming the parents is racist, or some other form of hate speech. Can't even bring the subject up. So we ignore the elephant in the kitchen and spend more money. We spend more money on kids, on their parents, and the cycle of dependency goes on and on and just gets larger. And now we are broke. Our social engineering hasn't worked. We have more thugs, more violence, and less discipline than ever before.

And the kids who want to learn get a good education wherever they go. And the kids who don't want to learn just learn how to get into trouble and how to get out of trouble, and how to scam the system. And they grow up to live in the system for the rest of their lives....on our nickel.

Kids learn that it is easier to steal than to earn. It is easier to go to SRS than to work. It is easier to lie than to fess up. It is easier to do drugs than to deal with honest feelings and emotions. And the system enables them. Spend more money, build more dependents.

pittstatebb 5 years ago

So, then what . . .

forced abortions? licenses for childbirth? fascism? true communism (state takes everything and give an equal amount to everyone, not 1984 communism)?

All of the above would solve our education problems, but is that the American way?

What is your solution, the one that does not involve spending more money on education? Notice I did not say to keep spending it the same way, because that is one of our problems.

devobrun 5 years ago

There is no change in the system that won't wind up killing some people. There is a stark statement. So how do we justify killing people? There is only one way and that is by seeing if we wind up saving the lives of even more other people.
If Indians are cut off from government money, will more Indians die because of lack of government give aways? Or will fewer Indians die because of drug dependency? Tough calculus isn't it. But if you have ever been to the rez, you know that drugs and alcohol are devastating the lives of many many people. And the trickle of money into the place is just enough to keep them going.

Decreasing funding to schools is trivial compared to what would happen if we really tackled the problem of dependency on the nanny state.

Maybe you and the teachers, and their democratic party cohorts know this and it scares the heck out of them. There's lots of able bodied people out there who have had their soul ripped out of them. And it is really hard to put a soul back into somebody. So don't expect that dependent people will be fixed by any program. Just try to stop the creation of new dependents.
Schools are for learning. If a student can't go to school without disrupting class, send them somewhere else. Their life will be miserable in the somewhere else place and maybe they can come back to school where they will behave. A few chances and they are out for good. There will be people out on the street who are miserable. So what else is new? Offer them a way out and make the consequences of their behavior clear, stark and demanding. Beginning when they are young enough to change their heads.

pittstatebb 5 years ago

Your analysis would work, but you have to attack the social engineering part of it. You have to limit population growth of the "miserables". They, statistically speaking, populate quicker, and are less likely to make choices to better the lives their parents bore them into.

But again, this is not the American way. Many of our educational and societal problems are, at the root, produced by the American way - capitalist economy, with a societal fairness for all. Those two ideals are not always good partners.

devobrun 5 years ago

Oh BTW, farmers should be cut off from their subsidies, too. And there are a lot of other dependents needing to be cut off, too. Life will be tough until we all learn to live a life that is real and not some subsidized monstrosity like we have now. But humans adapt better than any other animal. We'll figure out something. And we will be better for it. As it is, we are looking at years of decline. Economic decline, moral decline, and dependency which we can no longer afford.

rbwaa 5 years ago

"Oh BTW, farmers should be cut off from their subsidies, too." Do you know who gets the vast majority of those subsidies? Huge corporate farms. Are you suggesting we should end corporate welfare? Oh, and did you know that Mr. Brownback gets farm subsidies?

devobrun 5 years ago

Yep rbwaa, whatever. Corporations are people too. It is all one big cluster........ Lining up on sides of democrat and repubs just confuses the obvious. We are broke and the experts who run schools, agriculture, business, politics, and on and on...... are wrong.

Stop spending money on things that don't work. I don't care what the computer model says. We are going broke and nobody is saying that all this government intervention isn't working.

More money for public schools won't fix their problems. This article is about school funding. It is just one of a manifold of government programs that aren't making our lives better.

Hey liberals.....are you happy? I mean, are public schools going in the direction that you want them to go? Are new programs working? Is the country doing better? Or are we going broke and more and more students fall through the cracks and beome unemployed? Obama really isn't working so well is he?
I feel sorry for ya. Hope things get better. Maybe some program, somewhere, will be the big breakthrough. Until then, try to ignore the dropout rates and the crime statistics. and the deficit.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years ago

"If Indians are cut off from government money, will more Indians die because of lack of government give aways? Or will fewer Indians die because of drug dependency? "

So government funding is the cause of all problems on rezzes? The multi-generational, racist and genocidal economic warfare doesn't even get a footnote in your Cliff's Notes version of reality?

chootspa 5 years ago

I think his ideas sounded better in the original German.

Armored_One 4 years, 12 months ago

I guess he's just changing the terms around a wee bit here. Instead of "Jews" it's "poor".

Guess we should change the words to Kung Fu Fighting for devo, just so he can have a theme song to rouse the masses.

"And everybody was goosestep walking"

devobrun 5 years ago

boso, how do you get "government funding is the cause of all problems on rezzes" from my comments?

Cause of all problems? Huh? The cause is all you say, and more. What is the solution. bozo? Is it more money? Don't think so. Is the solution to public school problems....more money? Don't think so.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years ago

"What is the solution. bozo?"

That's a rhetorical question, isn't it? After all, you've already admitted that you don't believe in solutions, only suffering for those that don't make your grade.

Armored_One 4 years, 12 months ago

Please tell me that you are not advocating a physical death for those that are not well-to-do financially.

You admit to teaching high school, in some form or fashion, and this is the mentality that you are approaching it with??

No wonder you are anonymous online. The second I knew your name, I'd print every single word you have written and give it to your employer.

Fiscal genocide.

Well, at least it's a new one, more or less.

I'd ask you what the income level would be as the cut off line for living or dying, but my mind is just not wrapping around the initial declaration enough for that much more trauma.

If one of your children failed to cut the mustard, so to speak, would you report it?

Armored_One 4 years, 12 months ago

Now I know where I have heard this tripe before.

You are a racist white supremicist. A large majority of the "poor" are people that aren't white. Yeah, there is a growing number that are white, but the majority still rests on the heads of those that aren't white.

I knew that sounded familiar and after talking with my kids about why I was sounding off, it came to me.

The Klan.

I brought up David Duke in the discussion, since I know the vast majority of high school kids know little about politics beyond the mechanics of it.

Hope yer other half doesn't catch you cutting holes in the bedsheets.

weeslicket 5 years ago

c9lewis fumes: "states with unionized teachers do significantly worse on standardized tests. But, hey, that doesn't fit the narrative, right?"

your narrative doesn't fit the facts. from (via Maureen Downey at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution); 2/23/11: Only five states do not allow collective bargaining for educators, effectively banning teachers unions. Those states and their SAT/ACT rankings are as follows: South Carolina – 50th North Carolina – 49th Georgia – 48th Texas – 47th Virginia – 44th

Meanwhile ground zero of the union battle, Wisconsin, is ranked 2nd in the country.

tomatogrower 5 years ago

Oh weeslicket, you are going to confuse cdLewis with facts. He might blow a fuse.

Flap Doodle 5 years ago

SAT rankings for 2010 are different. It appears that states with low participation rates do better than states with high participation rates. Perhaps if more than 4% of Wisconsin students took the SAT their state would be ranked differently.

pittstatebb 5 years ago

So use NAEP data, the south will not rise again. But to be fair, union/non-union is not a true correlation. Look at poverty rates and overall educational funding. Those are probably better correlations.

chootspa 5 years ago

That's because he used both SAT and ACT scores - which accounts for the participation difference. Using only SAT scores is an apples to oranges argument.

Richard Heckler 5 years ago

Kathy Cook is to be respected for her savvy. Kathy spends many many hours in Topeka struggling for Kansas Public Schools and Kansas students. She has been most active for many years.

Richard Heckler 5 years ago

Reduced Funding for Education Presents a Gloomy Picture = right on the money. Smart republicans are equally concerned.

Economic growth does not attach itself to vanishing school districts.

Armored_One 5 years ago

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pittstatebb 5 years ago

You are letting your personal experience overcome statistical evidence. Free lunch students: are less likely to graduate high school less likely to have a college degree more likely to end up in prison fail state assessments at higher rates than non-free lunch students

It is great that your children will not add to the majority, but those are facts. They (the facts) should make no judgement as to the worth of your students as people or put them in a position that they are not allowed the same opportunities as other students.

The above links will provide statistical evidence that being poor (free lunch included) puts a student at greater risk to all of the afore mentioned.

chootspa 5 years ago

Yes, it's true that poor students are at a statistical disadvantage, but Devobrun is making a circular argument. Poor students do worse because they don't value education. The proof that they don't value education is that they do worse.

pittstatebb 5 years ago

One more thing to point out. Your children's teachers will never know that your children qualify for free/reduced lunches. Only the person who took your paperwork and the district's coordinator problem have that information.

Centerville 5 years ago

But if the KNEA has its way, it will be a very cheery future re-run for Senator Brumgardt's law firm.
Follow the money, not the emotion.

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