Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach spoke on the economic and security effects of illegal immigration during the KU School of Business' annual J.A. Vickers Sr. and Robert F. Vickers Memorial Lecture Tuesday, April 12, 2011, at the Lied Center.
Members of the group Lawrence Action Network for Diversity and other community members hold a peaceful protest outside the Lied Center, Tuesday, April 12, 2011. Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach spoke about illegal immigration during the KU School of Business' annual J.A. Vickers Sr. and Robert F. Vickers Memorial Lecture at the Lied Center.
Kris Kobach: Questions and answers
Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach spoke to an audience at the Lied Center Tuesday evening as part of the Vickers Memorial Lecture Series. Kobach answered some submitted questions following his lecture.
Hundreds of Kris Kobach critics waited outside the Lied Center on Kansas University’s West Campus on Tuesday evening to let him know what they thought of his work with anti-immigration legislation.
Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State, lectured as part of the J.A. Vickers Sr. and Robert F. Vickers Sr. Memorial Lecture Series.
Kobach is known nationally for his work in helping to draft the Arizona anti-immigration policy, which has been called the most broad and strict policy at the state level. Since taking office in January, he has focused on introducing similar legislation in Kansas focused on immigration policy and voter fraud. His lecture Tuesday was titled, “State and Local Laws Discouraging Illegal Immigration: Their Economic and Security Impact.”
Bill Dymacek was among the members of the outdoor crowd, many of whom held signs in protest of the Kansas Secretary of State.
“This immigration thing is just the smoke screen in my opinion,” Dymacek said. “I’d have more respect for him if he’d be honest about it and just say this is a chance to get fewer minorities to vote because they tend to vote more Democratic and it’s more votes for Republicans.”
While the crowd engaged in chants such as “No hate in my state,” “Educate don’t discriminate” and “No one is illegal,” the participants remained peaceful. Members of the Lawrence Action Network for Diversity were trying to educate those attending the lecture on the bigger picture.
“We’re well overdue for a big policy change,” group member Tanya Golash-Boza said. “What’s happened is states have taken it up, which is not a good idea. We certainly don’t want to waste money on something the federal government needs to take a stand on and figure out a way to legalize.”
Inside the Lied Center, there was much more support for Kobach’s ideas and proposed legislation. Kobach talked about the actions he believes states should be taking on immigration issues. He also touched on what makes states successful in implementing those actions as well as the legal ramifications of such legislation. Kobach, who is Ivy League educated, also cited numerous state statistics on illegal immigration in Kansas, highlighting what he believes to be the serious issues.
Among those numbers, Kobach said an estimated 70,000 illegal aliens currently reside in the Sunflower State. He called Kansas a “destination state” and a “passage state” for illegal immigration. Kobach also addressed issues of financial ramifications endured both by allowing illegal immigrants to stay and returning them to their home countries.
“We’re at a dangerous point in this country,” Kobach said. “But the struggle is a long way from finished.”
The attendees inside the Lied Center, a mix of Kobach supporters and critics, listened intently to his message and his answers to questions submitted by those in attendance.
Jim Hermesh, along with his wife, Laurie, and son C.J., sported shirts supporting the elected state official.
“We support Kris because he speaks the simple truth,” Hermesh said. “There are a lot of people that feel very passionately. If your mind is closed because of ideologies or whatever reason, there’s no hope for you.”
Tuesday night’s lecture was the 42nd in the Vickers Memorial Lecture Series. The event was hosted by the KU School of Business.
Comments
ivalueamerica 2 years, 11 months ago
how much money are governments in fiscal crisis spending defending his unconstitutional laws?
appleaday 2 years, 11 months ago
If we enforced existing laws about hiring illegal immigrants and fined business owners, there might actually be some revenue in those fines. When I owned a small business I was told that the fine per employee was $10,000.
jhawkinsf 2 years, 11 months ago
If you owned a small business then you know how difficult it is to determine who is legal and who is illegal. I too have owned businesses with between 5 and 10 employees. I could spend time away from my own work and research unreliable databases. Or I could takes a person at their word and let them work, knowing that some of them will be legal and some not. Perhaps I could engage in the totally repugnant practice of racial profiling, you know, do a little more research on "brown people" and people who "speak with an accent". Larger businesses with people dedicated to personnel matters might have the time and resources, but my small business experience meant I needed to get back to work and get my hands dirty, not checking up on people's background. All that said, we all must be responsible for our actions and our behavior. Businesses need to be held accountable for their actions as do the illegal immigrants themselves.
jafs 2 years, 11 months ago
Sorry - that's not really convincing.
When you hire somebody, don't you spend a lot of time screening, and then checking people's references, etc.?
It doesn't seem unreasonable to expect an employer to also check for resident status, especially if the e-verify system worked well.
jhawkinsf 2 years, 11 months ago
A point of emphasis, I specifically said businesses need to be held accountable. But so do the illegal immigrants. Your silence as to their accountability suggests you do not believe they should be held responsible for their illegal activity. Or am I wrong about that? And if I am wrong, then your way of holding the illegal immigrant responsible is what?
jafs 2 years, 11 months ago
Is that for me?
I've said numerous times that folks who are here illegally should be deported.
jhawkinsf 2 years, 11 months ago
Thank you for the clarification.
jafs 2 years, 11 months ago
Sure.
madameX 2 years, 11 months ago
If you're a small business it's very possible that you can't. I used to be the manager for one and did most of the hiring and barely had time to interview people, let alone do background checks and call references. We had high turnover and were pretty much always hiring, and I just had too much other stuff to do. If the e-verify system worked well the it would be a simple matter to check a SS# but it doesn't, yet.
I'm not saying that employers should be let off the hook by any means, I just don't want to see employers who do what they can to ensure that their employees are working legally but who have limitations on what they can do lumped in with employers who don't even try, or even hire illegal immigrants on purpose. If anything I guess this highlights the need for a reliable, easy way for employers to verify immigration status.
jafs 2 years, 11 months ago
Sure.
livingstone 2 years, 11 months ago
If you want to run a successful business, you really cannot care much about who you employ except they need to be very hardworking, especially if you run a restaurant or retail biz... where you need reliable workers but you really cannot pay so much (if not you cut into your bottomline).
appleaday 2 years, 11 months ago
Actually it wasn't. All I had to do was have them fill out the forms and provide me with a copy of their Social Security Card or Visa and a government issued photo ID (driver's license or passport). That's what all employers are required to do. At my current job anyone showing up on the first day of work without those documents gets sent home. If employers have these documents on file, they are covered.
jhawkinsf 2 years, 11 months ago
Correct, and I hired people who I later came to find out provided false documentation. Very good looking false documentation.
fan4kufootball 2 years, 11 months ago
In theory that sounds great but in reality the illegals have become very good at producing very authentic looking documents.
ivalueamerica 2 years, 11 months ago
ignorant part about your comment is that making an illegal law that will not stand up to Constitutional scrutiny no better solves the problem than doing nothing, but costs us a lot more time and money.
If you were smarter, you would DEMAND a more sensible solution instead of a senseless one to combat illegal immigration.
I see, however, you stand with the senseless solutions.
I have to say no, not with my tax dollars.
Boosh 2 years, 11 months ago
This side talk is still skirting the issue that there are business' that recruit and hire illegals on purpose, not because of any forged documents or failure to verify. They do it on purpose and those business' are the one the C of C and Agribusiness lobbyist support.
somebodynew 2 years, 11 months ago
And I just read yesterday (can't remember where) that an Appeals Court has upheld the stay of enforcement on the majority of his Arizona law, stating that there is a good chance the Feds will be able to prove it unconstitutional - just like most of the ones he has written.
And he makes big $$$ off of this- - what a scam he has going, and he gets paid for being an elected official, wow.
And appleaday has it correct. The easiest way to handle this would be to fine the people who hire them. Somehow I don't think that is going to happen, and I mean under either party, but especially the Rs.
andreainkansas 2 years, 11 months ago
And he mocked the opinion last night, citing the section that CLEARLY WASN'T THE HOLDING as the holding of the Circuit panel! Lies, always lies, manipulations, half truths, and skewered information based on discredited source with this joker. He's a terrible lawyer.
optimist 2 years, 11 months ago
A 3-judge panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco on a 2-1 split upheld a lower court injunction preventing enforcement of some provisions of the law. This is hardly a victory as the 9th Circuit is by far the most overruled federal appeals court in the country. They are most often overruled on controversial politically charged issues of this nature. This will ultimately go directly to the Supreme Court and if I were a betting person I would bet the Supreme Court disagrees with the 9th Circuit.
TJ_in_Lawrence 2 years, 11 months ago
Hmmmmm maybe you can't remember because it didn't happen? Facts please not wishes And dreams.
appleaday 2 years, 11 months ago
It did happen. Google it.
somebodynew 2 years, 11 months ago
Well, I think it was CNN, but at 5 something in the a.m. (when posting the above) I am just too lazy to try to look it up. I might be lazy, but honest. There is enough "stuff" on this topic I don't need to make things up.
TJ_in_Lawrence 2 years, 11 months ago
It's funny that the protestors held signs that said "no hate in my state" and yet the majority of the protestors and the posters on this site obviously hate Kobach.
sbb 2 years, 11 months ago
The "hate" referred to on the signs, and attributed to Kobach, is indiscriminate hate against a class of people. Kobach "hates" illegal immigrants for potentially committing voter fraud; although no proof that this is a problem which needs tax payer money to be spent on it exists.
People who "hate" Kobach do so on an individual level based on actions he has taken and words he has spoken. There is a clear and rational reason for not liking Kobach.
Flap Doodle 2 years, 11 months ago
You guys botched the first paragraph. "Hundreds of Kris Kobach critics waited outside the Lied Center on Kansas University’s West Campus on Tuesday evening to let him know what they thought of his work with anti-illegal-alien legislation. " There, I fixed it for you.
distant_voice 2 years, 11 months ago
I absolutely believe we should throw open the gates to our country and allow anyone in. I also believe we should make the people who support this idea responsible for 100% of the costs associated with supporting illegal immigrants. I also believe that we hold this same group of people responsible for 100% of the crime illegal immigrants commit, including fines, prison time, and restitution. The basis of any successful society is responsibility. if the people who support this concept accept the FULL responsibility, then by all means, let 'em in.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 11 months ago
“We support Kris because he speaks the simple truth,” Hermesh said. “There are a lot of people that feel very passionately. If your mind is closed because of ideologies or whatever reason, there’s no hope for you.”
Don't be so pessimistic, Jim. There is hope that you'll recover from your xenophobia, and the willful ignorance which it feeds. But you'll have to push yourself away from Fox News.
livinginlawrence 2 years, 11 months ago
Ah, you beat me to it. I was just preparing to post basically the same thing.
SWJayhawk13 2 years, 11 months ago
I LOL'd at Jim's statement.
bd 2 years, 11 months ago
tea anyone??
stupid liberals!
Mike Ford 2 years, 11 months ago
bd, maybe you can be like michelle "crazy" bachmann and claim that lexington and concord happened in new hampshire. dumb tper's.....
jhawkinsf 2 years, 11 months ago
Is it O.K. if I cheat on my taxes? Can a driver with a good record decide to drive without insurance? Can someone blow past a stop sign at 3:00 am, what are the chances someone will be in that intersection at that time? What's the harm in someone smoking a little pot? They can certainly decide it's O.K. to sell some to my teen, right? Is it O.K. for someone to enter a country without the permission of that country? Is it O.K. for an employer to knowingly hire an illegal immigrant? The point is that we have laws. There are, and should be consequences if you break the law. We cannot go around deciding which laws we have to obey and which laws we can break. If you do not like the laws, work to change them. If you believe the laws are so onerous that you cannot live with them, go to a place where the laws are less onerous.
Tab 2 years, 11 months ago
And that's the truth!!!! Couldn't have said it better myself!!
Bob_Keeshan 2 years, 11 months ago
Kansas is a "destination state" for illegal immigrants.
And...
Kansas is a "passage state" for illegal immigrants.
What a joke. It is surprising this guy always appears to slim, as he clearly is committed to having his cake and eating it too.
notanota 2 years, 11 months ago
Not to mention his convenient ignoring of recent census figures. But it must be true, because he says it's true, right?
Matt Needham 2 years, 11 months ago
If you hire them they will come. It seems to me that concentrating on getting American citizens back to work would solve several problems.
Kontum1972 2 years, 11 months ago
Kobach is a german name....hmmmm....so who is next on the profiling list? You know if J. Edgar Hoover was around "Kobach" wouldnt be where he is right now politically. LoL!
Kontum1972 2 years, 11 months ago
the name Kobach doesnt sound american.... and there are alot of americans who dont want to work....they just use the system.
Eddie Muñoz 2 years, 11 months ago
I mean, have we seen this guy's birth certificate? ;)
jjt 2 years, 11 months ago
My concern is for the children of illegals. Those of us who have kids (teens) know that they are not up to filing all the paperwork to try and get themsleves to be allowed to stay. At the same time if they do they are effectivley outing their parent/s. It does not seem fair to just dump them aged 10 /15 or what ever in a foreign country with a different language with no support. I do not support the concept of folk just coming here illegally but there needs to be a workable system (that means, that works) to help those who are in trouble because of someone else's actions. Surely we got that lesson already.
How about bring the troops home and use them to patrol the borders top and bottom.
bchap 2 years, 11 months ago
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
jhawkinsf 2 years, 11 months ago
When calculating how much illegal immigrants contribute to the economy vs. how much they cost in services provided, How much is the loss of the rule of law worth?
andreainkansas 2 years, 11 months ago
Kobach, as usual, was a bad joke of misinformation and outright lies. The Obama administration has decided to not prioritize enforcement, he said? There have been more deportations under the Obama administration than in any other administration in history. That, Mr. Kobach, is a fact. I know you try to avoid them at all cost, because they cost you votes.
Elaine Elliott 2 years, 11 months ago
Why don't we hold the businesses that employ illegal immigrants accountable instead of the illegal immigrants themselves? They wouldn't be coming here if there wasn't work available. Companies are making money off of them b/c they don't have to offer them health insurance and all the other perks that go along with having a work visa. The problem starts with the businesses that employ undocumented people.
jhawkinsf 2 years, 11 months ago
Hold both the employer and the illegal immigrant responsible for their own actions. Both are doing something illegal and both should be held accountable, each for their own actions.
ferrislives 2 years, 11 months ago
All I have to says is, try entering Mexico illegally. They wouldn't accept you kindly; you'd be deported, as others found out the hard way!
douglas6280 2 years, 11 months ago
At least Kobach stands up and faces his critics and doesn't hide like, well Dennis Moore or the Dems in Wisconsin...
nugget 2 years, 11 months ago
Cherry picking the questions your sycophants have submitted isn't standing up to anyone. It's Bush-style gimmickry.
douglas6280 2 years, 11 months ago
"The attendees inside the Lied Center, a mix of Kobach supporters and critics" Are sycophants and critics the same thing?
jafs 2 years, 11 months ago
Did he answer any questions from critics?
MyName 2 years, 11 months ago
This is not about illegal voting. It is about Kobach's quest for higher office and personal gain. It's not even Rove tactics. This is straight out of Nixon's playbook only instead of Civil Rights law ("the blacks are taking over and gonna ruin our country if you don't vote for me"), you've got Immigration law ("the latinos are gonna take over and ruin our country if you don't vote for me").
New Flash: this country is bigger than any one group, and it's certainly bigger than Kobach. It's going to be just find so we don't need to waste time passing laws that protect us against problems that don't exist just so we can feel better about whatever it is Kobach is trying to scare us with.
plainspeaking 2 years, 11 months ago
Not to change the subject, but is Kobach serving as Kansas' Secretary of State or Attorney General? He may be confused about his job description.
yourworstnightmare 2 years, 11 months ago
Kobach has made tidy sum of money with him anti-immigration consulting.
ststoff 2 years, 11 months ago
We just can not afford open borders.
Census: Most illegal alien families on government dole April 6th, 2011 3:15 pm ET
Jim Kouri Law Enforcement Examiner The latest Census Bureau data reveals that most U.S. families headed by illegal immigrants use taxpayer-funded welfare programs on behalf of their American-born anchor babies, according to a public-interest group that investigates government corruption and fraud. Even before the recession, immigrant households with children used welfare programs at consistently higher rates than natives, according to the extensive census data collected and analyzed by the Center for Immigration Studies, a nonpartisan Washington D.C.
Among the CIS findings: The study focused on eight major welfare programs that cost the government $517 billion the year they were examined. They include Supplemental Security Income (SSI) for the disabled, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF), a nutritional program known as Women, Infants and Children (WIC), food stamps, free/reduced school lunch, public housing and health insurance for the poor (Medicaid).
In 2009 (based on data collected in 2010), 57 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal and illegal) with children (under 18) used at least one welfare program, compared to 39 percent for native households with children
We estimate that 52 percent of households with children headed by legal immigrants used at least one welfare program in 2009, compared to 71 percent for illegal immigrant households with children. Illegal immigrants generally receive benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children.
nugget 2 years, 11 months ago
Klown.
There is no illegal immigration voting problem. All a bunch of silly smoke and mirrors poorly educated Western Kansans gobble up and a line of baloney that makes educated Republicans chuckle at the stupidity of the electorate that put him in office.
Where are his efforts really directed? At high paying out-of-state "consulting" jobs. Talk about your government waste. Kobach is the definition of it.
Brian Hall 2 years, 11 months ago
Listened to the entire interview. Kobach spoke too fast and he once again never gave actual examples of what he is fighting against just what-if and probable scenarios.
Bingoj1 2 years, 11 months ago
I have no problem with an immigrant who comes here the legal way. If we are not going to enforce our immigration laws, then why have them? Why should someone be rewarded for breaking the law? And they are rewarded because they can get driver's licenses, send their kids to school, etc. If you want to be respected and enjoy the rights and freedoms of the United States, then don't start things off by coming over here illegally. It's not about hate, it's about upholding a law that prohibits people from coming here illegally.
Hong_Kong_Phooey 2 years, 11 months ago
So the federal government needs to "take a stand and figure out a way to legalize it"? Um, I'm pretty sure that immigration IS legal -- you just have to enter the country through the proper channels, not a river channel. Additionally, the United States is incapable of supporting everyone that wants to escape their craphole country for ours. That is just the fact of the matter.
jhawkinsf 2 years, 11 months ago
The issue is people breaking the law by illegally crossing our border, and then what to do about it. My post concentrated on a part of that issue, the rule of law. I'm sorry if you don't see that, but it is a key component of the discussion.
>"If you can't stick to the issue, don't bother posting" I was unaware of the fact that you set the rules of discussion here. Apparently, name calling is permitted on this, your thread. Please be so kind as to e-mail me a set of the rules: www.I.Don't.care.what.you.say.com
jafs 2 years, 11 months ago
:-)
jhawkinsf 2 years, 11 months ago
You want to deport "anchor babies", presumably babies born in the U.S., yet you complain that Kobach's plans can't pass Constitutional muster. Children born on American soil are citizens of the U.S. and deporting them is unconstitutional. Your logic escapes me.
jafs 2 years, 11 months ago
All those who talk about amnesties, and legalizing those who are here illegally, seem to not care that those folks are breaking the law.
For some reason, most, if not all, other examples of that are seen differently - why is that?
If somebody breaks into your house and steals something, do you give them something else when you catch them doing it?
jafs 2 years, 11 months ago
Maybe, maybe not.
In any case, it would require a quite detailed and in-depth analysis to find out whether that was in fact the case, and whether or not that person had any better alternatives they were not choosing instead.
Would that really be your first response to an intruder in your home?
melott 2 years, 11 months ago
Actually, I think a lot of people are in favor of illegal immigration. Churches that will get more business from the dominant group. Employers who can get cheap illegal labor. Some politicians who will get the votes of the dominant group.
I am classified as a liberal on most things. I voted for Kobach because of his stand on this issue, even though I disagree with him on nearly everything else. Having excess population dumped in this country will rapidly ruin it. Forget about trying to conserve resources if you have runaway population increase.
notanota 2 years, 11 months ago
You know, if employers no longer get to underpay or blackmail their staff with the threat of deportation, you remove a lot of the incentive from both groups. A vastly expanded work visa program would do a lot to curb the influx of undocumented workers, and then you could focus law enforcement on the narcos and real bad guys.
number1jayhawker 2 years, 11 months ago
This is the bottom line. If there are laws put in place, then they have to be upheld.
You can not pick choose which laws you obide by and which ones you don't.
westcl 2 years, 11 months ago
Who do you suppose is paying for the benefits illegals receive? You and I that's who.
lounger 2 years, 11 months ago
Kobach is a scary dude. He is a racist! I tried to talk to him in south park years ago while he was walking to his car and he would even look at me! We were the only ones there!! I asked him about his buddy, buddy relationship with Dick Chaney and he was an a*s for sure. Looks like nothing has changed....
Flap Doodle 2 years, 11 months ago
Shiny side out, lounger.
Brittanicus 2 years, 11 months ago
COMING TO A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU..?
Every State that doesn't invest in the constraint of illegal immigration enforcement, is going to be invaded across their state borders. In the frontier state of Arizona that is battling the Dept of InJustice, the Liberal Court system, the open border crackpots as they try save the State from economic collapse, because foreign nationals stealing jobs, stealing entitlement and literary paying nothing into the State coffers. Even Kansas is not exempt from illegal immigration occupation in- volume, as countless numbers will arrive there as Secretary of State Kris Kobach admits. It been proven beyond the shadow of doubt, that other than the TEA PARTY caucus, politicians feel they have no responsibility to slam shut our borders. This is an accurate assessment when president Obama's Leftist backing allows drug and people smuggling allow Mexican trucks go into operation throughout our nation. All free Trade markets agreements are completely unfair to the American people. Our president promised to straighten these unfair treaties, so we have a level playing field; this still hasn't happened.
California's notoriety is being labeled THE Sanctuary State, that just as Nevada, Arizona have been drowned in debt so is California with a $26 billion dollar deficit. It has been brought on partially by uncontrolled illegal immigration and the drying up of public welfare entitlements, meant for legitimate Americans and residents.
WAKE UP AMERICA! DON'T LET THE ARROGANT POLITICIANS RAISE THE $14 TRILLION DOLLAR DEBT CEILING. DON'T LET THE US TREASURY PRINT MORE MONEY? WE NEED A BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT; OTHERWISE RADICAL LIBERALS WILL HAVE US BORROWING EVEN MORE FROM FOREIGN NATIONS AND INVESTORS.
Like most promises of politicians, they are full of hot air. Even before Obama came to power with his Leftist progressive Czars, previous administrations have ignored the invasions from foreign countries. If they had been serious about stopping illegal aliens flooding this country, they would have made it a felony to enter? They would have constructed the--REAL--double fencing at the border and deploying the Nation Guard. The TEA PARTY will enact a bill to build the double border fence and push hard to enforce a permanent E-Verify, for every American worker; all long time employees or new hire. Nobody in the jurisdiction of United States will be exempt, with the full force of the law coming down on dirty business. In addition "Secure Communities" should be the law of the land, to detect immediately the hundreds of thousands of illegal alien criminals amongst us. Everybody--no matter who is being processed for an infraction or Felony, should be fingerprinted and if illegal, loaded into a ICE van.
Brittanicus 2 years, 11 months ago
Rep. Ed Royce (R-Calif.) has introduced a bill (H.R.1274) titled "Keeping the Pledge on Immigration Act of 2011" that would increase border security and strengthen interior enforcement. Among the bill’s provisions this legislation would: 1. Will provide up to 4,000 additional national guard troops patrolling the southern border; 2. Will reaffirm language mandating “operational control” of the border as defined in the 2006 Secure Fence Act; 3. Will provide double and even triple layer fencing by September 30, 2014; 4. Will provide additional visa security screening for high risk visas including in-person interviews and data sharing. America is importing poverty at an accelerating rate and billions of dollars are being bled from every American State.
In the report, Ed Rubenstein, president of ESR Research and a former director of research at the Hudson Institute, reveals that the IRS knowingly allows illegal aliens to defraud taxpayers by getting cash through EITC payments of up to $5,750 for a family of five. The IRS also refuses to implement recommendations from its own Inspector General’s office that could stop massive EITC fraud that costs taxpayers as much as $13 billion a year. Read the complete report at
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/
This is another reason all--AMERICANS, NATURALIZED CITIZENS AND LEGAL RESIDENTS SHOULD LOCATE AND JOIN THE TENS OF MILLIONS OF TEA PARTY ACTIVISTS IN THIS GATHERING STORM AGAINST LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES, OPEN BORDER LOBBYISTS. GAIN MORE FACTS AT NumbersUSA, JUDICIAL WATCH FIGHTING FOR LESSER GOVERNMENT; SECURE BORDERS, REMOVAL OF CORRUPT POLITICIANS TO SAVE OUR NATION.
DONALD TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT! HE ISN"T GOING TO ROB US BLIND LIKE OTHER POLITICIANS! UNLIKE OBAMA AND GOP THIS POTENTIAL LEADER WILL RENEGOTIATE ALL SO-CALLED FREE TRADE TREATIES, SPECIFICALLY WITH CHINA AND MEXICO.
foppa 2 years, 11 months ago
I am going to talk on behalf of legal residents and say 'thanks, but no thanks.' However, I do hope that the Trumpster gets elected president so he can tell us all that we are fired. Nothing better than a president with a catch phrase.
foppa 2 years, 11 months ago
I sat through what his speech and I never ONCE heard an "according to (insert governmental or independent research institution)" He DID say a lot of facts that he never backed up with a source. Yet, people think that he is telling the truth? It is disappointing that people don't bother asking where he gets his facts. In the talk, for example, he was telling a story about government officials from the state of Sonora, Mexico coming to Arizonan officials and telling them to stop the law because too many people were going back to Mexico and they couldn't handle that. He told the people "its true, google it." I googled it and found NO SUCH STORY from a credible source. I found a few nationalist web sites that mentioned it but I looked in English and Spanish newspapers and found nothing. THAT STORY IS NOT TRUE. Yet, people there stood up and clapped for lies. I am sure they think they are hearing the facts, which is the saddest thing of all. He also mentioned that Mexico is poor because of its corruption and that is true. No doubt that the Mexican government, from the president to the mayor in the smallest towns, are all corrupt. But there are numbers that link NAFTA to the poverty of Mexican farmers. Farmers that then come to America to work. The message of his talk, I thought, was pretty clear: The United States government has the duty to protect and act in the behalf of US Citizens... unless they happen to be born to illegal immigrants. In which case, they can just go back to Mexico (or whatever other country) and go to school there and then come back when they are 18 and have the same opportunities as everyone else (he literally said this).
jafs 2 years, 10 months ago
This is one of the most disturbing parts of our political discussions today, to me.
People simply assert things with no sources, or justification, and then repeat them. Apparently, doing so is effective, and convinces folks that what is said is true, even if it is later shown to be false.
AthenaGrace 2 years, 10 months ago
Foppa, I too always listen for the sources or try to dig them up afterwards when a speaker makes claims I haven't personally witnessed or previously studied. In this case, Kobach took the less wordy way out and said check it out for yourself, you can find it on Google. The problem is the original story is becoming dated and Google is not as good as it used to be; personally I'm finding it harder and harder to get good results when I used to be very good at finding credible information using Google and in this case it took a bit more digging than it did the last time I checked the story out, but the sources proving Kobach's story to be factual are out there and were findable in less than 10 minutes once I had enough key words in my search.
Here's an original of the story from 2008: http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/2008/01/16/74193-sonoran-officials-slam-sanctions-law-in-tucson-visit/
Here's the AP story from 2008: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0116az-delegations16-on.html
Here's what Snopes had to say (Snopes says it's true and gives sources): http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/mexicoangry.asp
AthenaGrace 2 years, 10 months ago
hmmm. seems LJWorld doesn't show the links even though they showed in the preview. I will try again.
Here's an original of the story from 2008: http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/2008/01/16/74193-sonoran-officials-slam-sanctions-law-in-tucson-visit/
Here's the AP story from 2008: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0116az-delegations16-on.html
Here's what Snopes had to say (Snopes says it's true and gives sources): http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/mexicoangry.asp
Kasha 2 years, 10 months ago
Kobach needs a reality check. I am sure there are already businesses set up to provide phony IDs for voters just as there are for providing illegals Social Security Cards, birth certificates, Driver's Licenses, etc.. When are our "representatives" going to understand what is going on in the USA and when are they going to learn that raising our taxes won't solve problems THEY are creating!
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