Archive for Friday, September 10, 2010

Local voices to counter religious intolerance

The Florida pastor and his church members who were threatening to burn the Quran to commemorate 9/11 are not mainstream, says local Muslims. Lawrence churches will be putting on an interfaith service this Saturday at 10 a.m. at Plymouth Congregational Church.

September 10, 2010


Even though it’s unclear whether a Florida pastor will follow through with his plans to burn the Quran on Sept. 11, Christian, Muslim and Jewish leaders from Lawrence still intend to gather Saturday morning on the steps of the oldest church in Kansas.

“We feel that this is what needs to happen in this country right now,” said the Rev. Peter Luckey, senior pastor at Plymouth Congregational Church. “The moderate voices need to stand up because the extreme voices of hatred are way too dominant in the media.”

The Rev. Terry Jones, pastor of a small Florida church, gained media attention for criticizing the Quran, saying it incites radical, violent behavior among Muslims. His plans to burn Islam’s holiest text sparked an international outcry.

“I think it’s worth our while to continue to show goodwill towards Islamic people,” said the Rev. Josh Longbottom, Plymouth’s associate pastor, who is organizing the Lawrence event.

The service, “Interfaith Solidarity in the Wake of 9/11,” will be from 10 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. Saturday on the steps of Plymouth, 925 Vt.

Baha Safadi, executive director of the Islamic Center of Lawrence, said a member of the center will speak about Islam and peace.

“People who respect each other’s religions feel comfort and feel solidarity,” Safadi said. “It makes the whole society a happy, flourishing society instead of a society with animosity, dislike and distrust to each other.”

Eve Levin, a member of the Lawrence Jewish Community Center who will speak Saturday, said the center wanted to participate based on past world events when Jews were targeted and the Torah was burned.

“It’s incumbent upon us to speak out publicly and say, ‘No, we do not want this to happen,’” she said.

The Rev. Jill Jarvis, of the Unitarian Fellowship of Lawrence, will also speak Saturday.

“As a people of faith, we stand together against fear,” she said. “We stand united on the side of love.”

The Associated Press contributed to this story.


Flap Doodle 7 years, 6 months ago

Where was the outrage when this happened? "LITTLETON, Colo. -- A fire outside a Littleton church is being investigated as a bias-motivated arson that may have stemmed from the church's position on an anti-gay marriage amendment in California. Arapahoe County sheriff's deputies responded to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints about 7:15 p.m. Tuesday, about three hours after a church member found a burning copy of The Book of Mormon on the door step..."

Maddy Griffin 7 years, 6 months ago

One book, Snap. Burned by a member of the church.Not a bonfire to piss off 5 million others.

deec 7 years, 6 months ago

It certainly is wrong to burn churches/temples/mosques or anyone's religious books. It was also wrong in the 1950's and 1990's when black churches were being burned by racists. We have the Bill of Rights here in America to protect our right to worship how/if we see fit. We have the right to free speech. This preacher, like freddy boy, may have the legal right to protest, but that doesn't mean he has the moral or ethical right to do so. That's why we have a conscience.

ksjayhawk74 7 years, 6 months ago

Building a place of worship is not the same as burning holy books...

They're not building a mosque for the purpose of pi**ing people off. They're building a community center where all people are welcome.

ksjayhawk74 7 years, 6 months ago

Actually, they did change the name to "Park51". They're not changing the location because they don't have to listen to bigots who say they don't belong there.

jafs 7 years, 6 months ago

And, in addition, I believe the name Cordoba was a reference to an era and a place in which Jewish, Christian and Muslim people lived together in harmony.

Maddy Griffin 7 years, 6 months ago

It's not a "victory mosque" and I doubt if there are 200 million Americans pissed off about it.A lot of people actually understand why it must be built. I don't see anyone calling for the destruction of the mosque that has been sitting directly across the street from Ground Zero since before the WTC was completed.No one has EVER called for it to be torn down, not even immediately after 9/11.

Richard Heckler 7 years, 6 months ago

WE must all remember. Islam was not 9/11/01. That was pulled off by a few extremists most of whom were from Saudi Arabia as was the funding. Why focus on Iraq and Aghanistan?

We must also remember the ball was dropped by the republican party on 9/11/01? What were they doing? Bush,Cheney,Rummy,Rice and the NSA headquarters dropped the ball in a big way.

These culprits had been in the USA for at least two years residing a few blocks away from NSA headquarters and NSA headquarters knew of this. Some in the FBI knew of this. Some in the FBI were asking what's up and why were they not being authorized to move on this situation.

Perhaps 9/11/01 could have been averted had Bush,Cheney,Rummy,Rice and the NSA headquarters NOT dropped the ball in a big way.

Zachary Stoltenberg 7 years, 6 months ago

Merril you dolt, did you forget that president Clinton ordered the first flyovers and bombing runs into Iraq almost a full year before Bush? Get off your misguided talking points and put down the coolaid.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 6 months ago

So do you approve or disapprove of the actions ordered by Clinton? By Bush?

(if you answer incorrectly, that may make you a coolaid-drinking dolt, so think very carefully about your answers.)

guesswho 7 years, 6 months ago

What does Iraq have to do with the attack on 9/11? The hijackers were mainly from Saudi Arabia.

Richard Payton 7 years, 6 months ago

Actually most were from the UAE not Saudi Arabia.

Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 6 months ago

I read Phelps and his gang plan to do the same plus burn a flag also, I just don't get it.

AnnaUndercover 7 years, 6 months ago

I support free speech, but I'll admit my mind just wandered to who the heck sells them all those flags they burn.

dragonwagon2 7 years, 6 months ago

Unfortunately, the flagrant right (I won't call them Christians) are frantic for attention. Let's focus on the good people of the United States who are tolerant, loving and peaceful. I'll be at the service Saturday. Wouldn't it be nice if the service draws enough of a crowd that it gets more attention from the media than the fanatics (heretics)?

Calliope877 7 years, 6 months ago

“As a people of faith, we stand together against fear,” she said. “We stand united on the side of love.”

I don't consider myself to be a "person of faith" but I still like the above quote.

christy kennedy 7 years, 6 months ago

I'm an atheist and I'm going because I support each person's right to worship, or not, as they chose.

Flap Doodle 7 years, 6 months ago

The government of Saudi Arabia burns bibles as a matter of official policy.

Keith 7 years, 6 months ago

And we should strive to be no better than them. Is that your point?

jafs 7 years, 6 months ago

And we are allied with that regime.

ksjayhawk74 7 years, 6 months ago

China commits a lot of humans rights violations against it's people...

So should the United States limit Chinese people's rights too?

jafs 7 years, 6 months ago

If we were in a better position economically with China, I'd argue that we should make any trade with them dependent on clearing up any human rights violations.

jumpin_catfish 7 years, 6 months ago

Nut jobs are taking over the world. It will only get weirder and crazier from here on out. This mickey mouse preacher has empowered every other nut bag and demonstrated how to hold the US government hostage.

anonyname 7 years, 6 months ago

There is that whole "protect and defend the Constitution" thing... Your favorite Presidents, whoever they are, swore that oath. So did the current one, whether you like him or not.

TheYetiSpeaks 7 years, 6 months ago

You must not be one of those "better" Americans, painting with your broad strokes and all. Buy a smaller paintbrush. For instance, and I know this may shock you, not all Christians are "far right".

TheYetiSpeaks 7 years, 6 months ago

Wow, thats quite the leap...considering that many experts would agree that morality in the majority of the human species came about in no small part from religions.

TheYetiSpeaks 7 years, 6 months ago

"Still the number one cause of premature death is Religion."

wrong. The number one cause of premature human death are humans. Religion is just one of their favorite scapegoats. Rest assured if religion had never existed, humans would have found plenty of other reasons to kill each other because humans are violent, reckless animals.

"Religion satisfies Narcissism more than it creates a conscience, and it provides a justification when the conscience objects to horrific acts."

This avenue of thinking is criminally broad and in my opinion is the same type of thinking that extremists everywhere use to their benefit, so congratulations, you espouse what you purport to despise.

"Religion no matter what it is or how important it is to you, will still continue, like it has always been, to be a tool of the ruling class to stay in power."

Yes along with taxes, health care, unnecessary wars, military service, equal rights and every other issue to go along with religion. Nice try. Just because you don't believe in something, doesn't make it the source of all the world's problems. Disclaimer: I wholeheartedly endorse overplayedhistory's right to be an atheist and speak against all religion on this, or any, forum.

bd 7 years, 6 months ago

I will be glad when the moral majority takes over this Nov.

Tea anyone??

ksjayhawk74 7 years, 6 months ago

And what is the Tea Party's stance on ensuring the rights and freedoms of Muslim Americans?

John Kyle 7 years, 6 months ago

I'm sure glad I'm an atheist, because the last two months have only confirmed that christians and muslims are idiots. All of this over a make-believe guy in the sky?

ksjayhawk74 7 years, 6 months ago

Like the "fair and balanced:, highest rated "news" channel on cable?

John Kyle 7 years, 6 months ago

that's a lie. The president gave a speech on freedom of religion in the US. The press put a headline on it that said "Obama supports NY Mosque" which he did not. The media are at fault by only allowing people to be pro-NY-mosque or anti-NY-mosque. Go back to Obama's Ramadan speech and tell me where he says he supports the mosque.

anonyname 7 years, 6 months ago

Yes, he did appear to waffle some on it. I'll easily agree to that. To claim that it hadn't reached a fever pitch before his statement is where I'll join queequeg in disagreeing with you. It was a media frenzy well before Obama spoke about it the first time.

Mark Jakubauskas 7 years, 6 months ago

Simple question: "What would Jesus do ?"

Burn the holy books of another religion ? I think not.

The "Reverend" Terry Jones is no Christian, just an angry, bitter, hateful man desperate for attention.

jafs 7 years, 6 months ago

I honestly think Jesus would be very disappointed with much of how Christianity has turned out.

And, I suspect he wasn't trying to create anything of the sort - simply ministering to people's needs in a direct and interactive way.

beatrice 7 years, 6 months ago

That is because it is a beautiful photograph and not intended as an insult. Have you ever seen the image?

beim 7 years, 6 months ago

IN URINE! do you not understand? AN EXCREMENT!! why not just some yellow water? BECAUSE HE URINATED ON THE CROSS! What if I urinate on the US flag and take a picture of it with some nice's still a flag that's been DESICRATED!

beatrice 7 years, 6 months ago

No, he didn't urinate on a cross. Why lie to make a point? He submerged a crucifix in a jar of urine -- which is of his body, and the body is a temple. Don't agree if you don't care to, but it was not intended as a slam. He also made fascinating works using his own blood. I know you won't be able to wrap your head around any of this, but it is absolutely true.

jafs 7 years, 6 months ago

Taste in art is hardly worth arguing about, and extremely subjective.

jafs 7 years, 6 months ago

Taste in art more so than many other things.

And, you seem to think your opinion about this subject is objective somehow.

beatrice 7 years, 6 months ago

I'm sure your god would be far more interested in attacking people who are in the country illegally.

Get your priorities in order before calling anyone else a godless moron.

beim 7 years, 6 months ago

Yeah! I wonder if our media mentioned anything about this group of Jews in Israel burning up a pile of new testaments? O, I guarantee you they didn't. I wonder why.....

whynaut 7 years, 6 months ago

In response to rockchalk1977's wondering where the "local voices" were in 1987:

Perhaps they were being tolerant Christians.

Or perhaps they could appreciate the artistic commentary. Small plastic crucifixes are made by the millions every year. Many come from communist China. (Order yours today! Personally I find it interesting that people, notably Christians, support an industry that employs foreign communists to make cracker jack prizes out of their sacred religious symbols. What better way to show your devotion than a 10" glow-in-the-dark Jesus made for 6 cents a piece by a 14-year-old Chinese girl, and shipped over to the U.S.A.*?

I also find it interesting that the crucifix itself has come to such prominence as a Christian symbol. To paraphrase Bill Hicks, when Jesus returns to Earth, don't you think a cross is the LAST thing He going to want to see? But I digress.

The most likely answer to your question, however, is the fact that in 1987 the Internet was still esoteric, and the World Wide Web would not be born for another 4 years. Thus it was much more difficult for large numbers of people to become incensed about events that they would otherwise not even know about. Not that the WWW is a bad thing, it's just that we, in the adolescence (or perhaps still infancy) of the information age, have yet to adapt our filters accordingly. We've become infatuated with the ability to share our views and socialize with the entire connected planet, but we haven't yet figured out a good way to digest the information deluge with our thoughtful, rational, critical minds (at least not in the same way that we used to be able to with only a handful of information sources). The WWW has enabled everyone to become a reactionary, or at least a thoughtless redistributer of reactionary rantings, which may be worse.

It would be great if we could just ignore the reactionaries. But let's be realistic. We have the WWW, in all its unrestricted glory, and many will use its power to incite the most passionate reactions possible. And many of us will react. It's still in our nature. We haven't figured out how to take the information deluge in stride. Until then, upstarts like Terry Jones will be able to stir up idealogical mobs, that become so heated and out of control, that our heads of state and military will feel compelled to respond directly.

With that in mind, I think Longbottom's approach is as noble as gets: when the fervor of outspoken fear has become impossible to ignore, combat it with soft spoken love.

  • United States of America -- said by many, notably Lee Greenwood, to be blessed by God.

Paul R Getto 7 years, 6 months ago

I bet the Great ESSENE teacher took a piss every now and then too.

Shardwurm 7 years, 6 months ago

If the media would ignore fruitcakes like this then we would have a lot fewer problems. Ignore the Phelps and they would wither away.

beim 7 years, 6 months ago

exactly, and the MEDIA should be accountable 100% for every death that is contributed to this idiocracy. Just like they should be held accountable for all of the lives taken in our current empire's wasted wars. Now we have Stehpen Colbert and others making fun of Iran at all turns, letting the sheeple of America laugh and laugh at them. All this does is just make the sheeple view the people of Iran as sub-humans, yet again preping the ignorant masses for war letting them know that it's okai to laugh at those people; they're not like us. It will be ok do deystroy another country. Every media outlet should be held accountable, and in the end they will be.

beim 7 years, 6 months ago

Don't know if idocracy was the right word....use filth instead

Mark Jakubauskas 7 years, 6 months ago

Jesus was the original social justice advocate.

whynaut 7 years, 6 months ago

Why are you painting social justice in a negative light?

mr_right_wing 7 years, 6 months ago

==merrill warning==!!! ==merrill warning==!!!

Let's take a look at some of what allah's holy qur'an says...

Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." There is a good case to be made that the textual context of this particular passage is defensive war, even if the historical context was not. However, there are also two worrisome pieces to this verse. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution" (a qualification that is ambiguous at best). The second is that fighting may persist until "religion is for Allah." The example set by Muhammad is not reassuring.

Qur'an (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Qur'an (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding caravans with this verse.

Qur'an (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Qur'an (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Qur'an (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Qur'an (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

mr_right_wing 7 years, 6 months ago

Qur'an (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Qur'an, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Qur'an (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Qur'an (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

mr_right_wing 7 years, 6 months ago

Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Qur'an (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Qur'an (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Qur'an (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Qur'an (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Qur'an (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

mr_right_wing 7 years, 6 months ago

Qur'an (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

Qur'an (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Qur'an (8:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story, which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source, tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son.

Qur'an (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Qur'an (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Qur'an)." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Qur'an (47:4) - "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,"

Qur'an (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you," This very important verse asserts that the Religion of Peace is not to grant peace to the broader society until Islamic rule has been established.

Qur'an (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?

mr_right_wing 7 years, 6 months ago

Qur'an (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.

Qur'an (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed!

Qur'an (61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity." This verse was given in battle. It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Qur'an (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

mr_right_wing 7 years, 6 months ago

Qur'an (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah" From the historical context we know that the "persecution" spoken of here was simply the refusal by the Meccans to allow Muhammad to enter their city and perform the Haj. Other Muslims were able to travel there, just not as an armed group, since Muhammad declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah." According to Ibn Ishaq (324), Muhammad justified the violence further by explaining that "Allah must have no rivals."

Qur'an (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Qur'an (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Qur'an (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam. Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religions Five Pillars.

Qur'an (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Qur'an (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.

Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

50YearResident 7 years, 6 months ago

Can this really be considered a religion?

ksjayhawk74 7 years, 6 months ago

That question is usually asked by old, ignorant, bigoted, un-educated, hateful jerks that have nothing better to do with their time.

50YearResident 7 years, 6 months ago

I didn't know you were asking the same question. I didn't mean to repeat you.

jafs 7 years, 6 months ago

As are many Jews and Christians, despite many troubling passages in the Old Testament.

mr_right_wing 7 years, 6 months ago

No question at all there. There are plenty of atheists who are good, friendly people. I could NEVER reasonably say "all muslims are bad bad bad!!" I have no doubt there are plenty of 'muslims' who do a better job of leading what some would consider a 'Christian' style life than many Christians themselves! I disagree with almost all mormon doctrine; but those are some of the nicest, hard-working, family oriented people you'll meet.

voevoda 7 years, 6 months ago

mr_right_wing, You have proven that you can pull material off a right-wing propaganda mill website. But have you ever read the Qu'ran? There is a lot in it that you don't understand. Why not ask a Muslim neighbor to teach you?

mr_right_wing 7 years, 6 months ago

I might just do that.

I think it would be interesting to see how allah feels about homosexuals. I'm guessing he's not quite as tolerant as the Bible...........(they might just be the run-of-the-mill infidels like you and I.) Is one better off being a homosexual in America, or in, say, Iran, Afghanistan or Iraq?? Does allah agree with "hate the sin, love the sinner?"

Something to look into...

jafs 7 years, 6 months ago

The same Bible that's quoted by conservatives as proving that homosexuals are going to hell?

How on earth is that "tolerant"?

beatrice 7 years, 6 months ago

Good thing the Bible is all hugs and lollipops.

booyalab 7 years, 6 months ago

I wouldn't trust anything that was all hugs and lollipops, as a rule.

mr_right_wing 7 years, 6 months ago

I guess you've never heard about a great flood....? Maybe you've never heard of the towns of Sodom & Gomorrah? A man named Korah who disagreed with Moses?

The Bible has the greatest message of Love ever printed anywhere, but there's plenty of action in there too. Give it a try beatrice.

jafs 7 years, 6 months ago

That was obviously her point.

And contradicts the simplistic notion that our book is good, and that theirs is bad.

There are many troubling and violent passages in the Old Testament.

booyalab 7 years, 6 months ago

Yeah, those persnickety Hebrews couldn't even tolerate a little gang-raping or child sacrifice to Molech.

jafs 7 years, 6 months ago

Thanks - I knew that there were such passages, but didn't have the energy to go find them.

ksjayhawk74 7 years, 6 months ago

Too bad that line does not actually appear in the Koran.

Try again, without making things up.

beatrice 7 years, 6 months ago

Okay, that was actually funny, in a sick and twisted kind of way.

mr_right_wing 7 years, 6 months ago

Yeah...they left out wiccans as well as those who practice gnosticism.

Hey, this is Lawrence, would it really suprise anyone to find out we have active druids? Not me.

If we're going to be 'inclusive' let's be ALL inclusive. Excellent point.

pagan_idolator 7 years, 6 months ago

Rest assured you have active Wiccans and Druids.

mr_right_wing 7 years, 6 months ago

It might be a good idea to make your presence known Sunday morning at this event....if it's really all about tollerence I think you'd be welcome.

pagan_idolator 7 years, 6 months ago

You know, I did think about showing up but herding Wiccans is a lot like herding cats - cats who are chasing mice. I bet I would have been welcome, or at least tolerated. I have to say that I have never ran into any problems in Lawrence in relation to my religion.

voevoda 7 years, 6 months ago

Maybe the event was organized on short notice?

Flap Doodle 7 years, 6 months ago

"The wagon of the wicked shall be fixed."

booyalab 7 years, 6 months ago

I'm curious about what will transpire at the interfaith thingy. Not enough to attend, because I think it would make me gag, but I'm still interested to know what a half an hour of religious tolerance actually entails.

jafs 7 years, 6 months ago

I imagine that each representative may give a short talk, and there would be some sort of meditation/prayer time in remembrance of the victims, and in support of peace.

jafs 7 years, 6 months ago

But if you really want to know, why not go?

It's only a 1/2 hour, and you wouldn't even have to stay for the whole thing.

booyalab 7 years, 6 months ago

I'll watch any youtube clips, especially if auto-tuned.

Laura Wilson 7 years, 6 months ago

Unitarian Universalists draw on all faith traditions and their "books" and are not exclusively Christian, Jewish or Muslim nor do they exclusively use books and teachings from those religions. We regularly use pagan ritual, study the teachings of Buddah, learn from Native American teachings, and discuss and learn from other faiths at our services. The local UU minister is speaking on Saturday and she is neither Christian, Jewish nor Muslim.

bearded_gnome 7 years, 6 months ago

The service, “Interfaith Solidarity in the Wake of 9/11,” will be from 10 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. Saturday on the steps of Plymouth, 925 Vt.

---all they could muster is thirty minutes of solidarity? lol.
plus, your story is in error. there are no "christian leaders" here. christian means to be like christ.
christ said "I am the way, the truth, and the light, no man comes to the Father except by me."
also, Plymouth daily burns Romans chapter 1 and 1 Corinthians 6. they also burn 1 Timothy 3, and many other passages of Scripture.
thus, their intolerance of the actual Word, and we who follow it is the real problem.
further, if if Luckey et al were submitted to the Word, they'd know they are commanded "be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers, for what felowship has light with darkness?"

beatrice 7 years, 6 months ago

"there are no "christian leaders" here. christian means to be like christ."

Wow. Couldn't have said it better myself. Apparently, there really are no Christians here.

tunahelper 7 years, 6 months ago

why do you leftists always defend the intolerant muslims? what a bunch of two-faced hypocrites!

Mike Ford 7 years, 6 months ago

I saw where someone asked for more inclusion of other minorites and faiths in Lawrence in this discussion previously. Well, indigenous people in the Lawrence vicinity are constantly denigrated because one of the places used for the purpose of relgious practice by peoples from all four corners of this land is less important than a road. I find the hypocracy concerning the location of this mosque laughable. In spite of the FEDERAL LAW known as the American Indian Religious Freedom Act of 1978, the Sacred Sites and Traditonal Cultural Properties part of Section 106 of the N.H.P.R, and the American Indian Religious Restoration Act of 1993 and Executive Order #13007 on Sacred Sites, the Fear Wing, Developers, and the pointless apology Dumblicans like Brownback say one thing to appear civil and remorseful while doing what religiously superior and patronizing Christians have always done.... taking what they want asking for forgiveness and doing it all over again. Christianity is not about a preemptive consciousness to avoid wrongdoing... it's abouit doing wrong appearing remorseful and doing wrong again over and over. Said by a Preacher's kid Indian. And before I get the you're off thread bs of previous postings... realize the far reaching implications of the hypocracy going on here avoiding the US History that no one talks about.

Flap Doodle 7 years, 6 months ago

Speaking of intolerance: "MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) — A suicide car bomber exploded at the gate to Mogadishu's airport Thursday, and suicide bombers in a second vehicle rushed toward the terminal before exploding themselves short of their goal, officials said. Up to 14 people were killed, including five attackers. The coordinated assault was the latest in a surge of attacks by Islamist insurgents, who last month declared a new, stepped-up effort to oust the country's weak government. The barrage took place about 40 minutes after Somalia's president flew out of the country.The Somali government and the 7,000-man African Union force that protects Somalia's weak government gave slightly differing accounts of the attack, though they agreed on the broad outlines.After the suicide car bomber exploded at the front gate, 500 yards (meters) from the terminal, between two and four suicide bombers exited a second vehicle and battled security forces.At least two of the suicide bombers — who were wearing Somali military uniforms — forced their way into the airport grounds and ran toward the terminal."Both were brought to a halt within 200 meters (yards) of the terminal building where they exploded their IED (improvised explosive device) vests," the African Union said in a statement.Somali officials condemned the attack on the eve of the Muslim religious festival of Eid, but said they had anticipated a high-profile assault around this time. Eid marks the end of the holy month of Ramadan..."

ivalueamerica 7 years, 6 months ago

"It's a small but vocal group of Americans in this country pushing this anti-Muslim rhetoric," Ali said. "And unfortunately in our society, whomever shouts the loudest is going to get the most air time."

hwarangdo 7 years, 6 months ago

As long as people on all sides keep pointing fingers and shouting "them" "they" "their religion" ... "our religion your religion" there will be arguments and fighting. That is what is happening now... again ... and again. Extremists / fanatics are just that, no matter what "side" they are from. Meanwhile, those who wish to live in peace with everyone are shoved out of the way by the media and those who want sensationalism ... and those who want fighting have another excuse. This is easily seen by those with wisdom. Those who have little wisdom are quick to scream and shout and burn things.

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