Archive for Wednesday, November 24, 2010

Kansas Rep. Forrest Knox plans to push bill to allow concealed carry of guns in public buildings

November 24, 2010


A legislator is re-loading his bill that would allow concealed carry of guns in public buildings, including those at Kansas University.

“If you are not going to provide security, then don’t deny someone that the state has allowed to provide for their own security,” said Rep. Forrest Knox, R-Altoona.

Under Knox’s bill, persons who are licensed to carry a concealed gun would be allowed to bring a weapon into a state or city facility unless the building had adequate security measures, such as electric scanners, to ensure that no weapons could be brought in.

Knox had said he believed the gunman who killed 32 at Virginia Tech University in 2007 would have been stopped more quickly if someone else had been carrying a concealed weapon.

During the 2010 legislative session, Knox’s bill was approved by the Kansas House, 65-57, but it got bogged down in a Senate committee.

When the Legislature convenes in January for the 2011 session, Knox said he will be pushing his bill again.

“Rationality is on my side. I introduced it last year to get people thinking about security,” he said.

Rep. Paul Davis, D-Lawrence, whose district includes KU, disagrees with the bill.

“I think we have to give the universities the ability to regulate their own campuses,” Davis said. “This is really micro-management by the Legislature.”

Gary Sherrer, chairman of the Kansas Board of Regents, said the regents will oppose the proposal.

“Young people. Dormitories. Guns. Bad combination,” Sherrer said.

“We have looked at this issue and we believe there is a far greater danger by having a major proliferation of weapons on campus than there is by not having them,” he said.

He said regents universities have developed security plans with the assistance of a national consultant, and that consultant never mentioned concealed carry as a way to make campuses safer.


BrianR 6 years ago

I really have no fear that a CCH person is going to pose a threat. On the other hand, the rest of the gun totin' public is a different story.

inquire 6 years ago

Hey Mr. Knox, it is absolutely impossible to have gun related incidents in areas where guns are absent. Or... the more guns you have, the higher the chance for gun related incidents.

ksjayhawk74 6 years ago

bad analogy that doesn't make sense.

inquire 6 years ago

I guess Vertigo can't read beyond the first line.... "the more guns you have, the higher the chance for gun related incidents. " Think about it....

WilburNether 6 years ago

Wrong. The analogy is appropriate, and it makes sense to any person capable of rational thought.

booyalab 6 years ago

Every school shooting has been in a "gun-free" zone. Conversely, have you ever heard of a massacre at an NRA convention or a gun shop? Of course not, the ban guns crowd would be all over the story like flies on potato salad.

tomatogrower 6 years ago

We don't have bigger problems in Kansas?

DillonBarnes 6 years ago

This issue matters to a lot of people.

tomatogrower 6 years ago

So who needs a job, if we can't carry a gun into a public building? Priorities are screwed. Everyone is more concerned about celebrities and their gun rights. The heck with the economy and educating our kids. I really don't care where you carry your guns, but I'm tired of these lawmakers spending their time on issues that aren't solving the real problems. You aren't going to be able to shoot a rabbit for your supper in a public building. And if the economy doesn't get better, we will all be looking to shoot rabbits for supper.

DillonBarnes 6 years ago

Well this bill has been around for a while. What do you want lawmakers to do that they aren't already doing.

DillonBarnes 6 years ago

Well this bill has been around for a while. What do you want lawmakers to do that they aren't already doing.

ksjayhawk74 6 years ago

So if a place doesn't have metal detectors, I should be able bring a gun, just in case I have to shoot someone...

Flap Doodle 6 years ago

And just across our southern border, in a country that has very strict laws regarding who can own firearms: "MEXICO CITY - Mexico's government is telling migrants driving home for the holidays from the United States that they should form convoys for their own safety while traveling through Mexico, and an official said Monday that police will accompany convoys on the most dangerous stretches of highway. A seemingly intractable wave of drug cartel violence has made some border highways, especially in the states of Tamaulipas, Sonora and Sinaloa, so dangerous that the U.S. State Department urges travelers to avoid driving on some of the roads. "When there are hot spots, we can request that a patrol escort the convoy," said Itzel Ortiz, the director of the Paisano Program, which is in charge of welcoming returning migrants and ensuring their trips home are safe..." Read more:

RoeDapple 6 years ago

Great! Hope this gets passed soon! Next we need a bill allowing legal concealed carry on aircraft! After all . . . .

booyalab 6 years ago

If people regularly felt threatened by TNT explosions, they should have the right to carry it to defend themselves. Just because you chose a cartoonish example, doesn't mean the underlying principle of deterrence is wrong.

booyalab 6 years ago

You think people shouldn't have the right to defend themselves?

Betty Bartholomew 6 years ago

I work in an office on campus that gets a lot of angry people in. People who probably qualify by legal standards (though not by mine) to carry a gun. People who are warm and fuzzy until they get to our office, then they turn into raving loonies. People who would normally leave their guns at home (where they belong!) because they are law-abiding, but would probably start bringing them to campus if this bill went through.

Do you really think I want to have to worry that Dr. Jekyll is going to turn into Mr. Hyde and pull a gun on me to get his way? Hell, no!

So unless and until the state (oh, we're so poor, we can't afford anything!) can find the money to help the universities in this state come up to whatever security standards this bill would require, they'd best shelve the idea.

Scott Drummond 6 years ago

Prediction: Guns in bars in Kansas in less than 5 years.

DillonBarnes 6 years ago

Unless the bar correctly posts a no concealed carry sign, a person can already carry into a bar.

Scott Drummond 6 years ago

Wow, didn't know that. Incredible.

DillonBarnes 6 years ago

Yes, but 75--7c10 a) (a) Provided that the premises are conspicuously posted in accordance with rules and regulations adopted by the attorney general

and... (c)(1) It shall be a violation of this section to carry a concealed handgun in violation of any restriction or prohibition allowed by subsection (a) or (b) if the premises are posted in accordance with rules and regulations adopted by the attorney general pursuant to subsection (f).

Changes to the law require all those locations (except federal) to post a sign for it to actually be a violation.

parrothead8 6 years ago

"Knox had said he believed the gunman who killed 32 at Virginia Tech University in 2007 would have been stopped more quickly if someone else had been carrying a concealed weapon."

That's laughable. There's nothing to prove that's true. More guns in an area full of people could just as easily have caused MORE people to get killed/injured.

I don't want people with concealed weapons roaming the halls of the public buildings I frequent. That's NOT going to make me feel safe.

Jim Phillips 6 years ago

Funny how you claim one statement is untrue by making an equally unprovable statement.

Gary Denning 6 years ago

Woudl this apply to K-12 schools?

DillonBarnes 6 years ago

I'm not positive, but I believe there is a federal law that would override that.

timetospeakup 6 years ago

Wrong - the "gun free school zones" law exempts people that are licensed by the state and carrying in accordance with state law. For the last two or three years in Kansas, if a K12 school is not properly posted, a CCH holder can already carry there.

Kathy Theis-Getto 6 years ago

DillonBarnes, you are correct. Federal law requires K-12 schools to properly post, which makes your argument, speakup, moot.

timetospeakup 6 years ago

Wrong. Cite the federal law please.

DillonBarnes 6 years ago

“Young people. Dormitories. Guns. Bad combination,” Sherrer said.

This statement tells me that this man does not understand guns, gun owners, the concealed carry law, or who lives in dormitories.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years ago

This probably wouldn't increase the likelihood of gun violence on campus. But it likely wouldn't decrease it, either. As long as we, collectively, believe that we need to carry guns around in order to be safe, that belief is not going to be limited to folks who are licensed concealed carriers.

The main effect concealed carry will have on society is to reinforce the idea that guns make us safe, and it's those who are most apt to commit violence who will feel the greatest need to pack a gun, legally or not.

As a society, we are rather immature and prone to violence. Until that changes, we'll go right on shooting each other to death, concealed carry or no.

booyalab 6 years ago

The "gun free" signs are obviously so effective, I think we need to do the same for murder. I mean we need signs. Maybe hang a giant sign around lady liberty's neck that says "USA is a Murder Free Zone!" I just wouldn't feel safe in a country where people were allowed to conceal the motivation to murder someone.

Flap Doodle 6 years ago

Well, just look at all the Wild West shoot-outs between concealed-carry permit holders in Lawrence over parking places! Oh, wait, that seems to have not happened despite being strongly predicted during the run-up to legalization of concealed carry.

gl0ck0wn3r 6 years ago

Indeed, it is crazy. You've got to dodge the bullets coming from all the road raging cch people at intersections. The predictions were totally right!

oldvet 6 years ago

Remember... when seconds count... the police are only minutes away!

Joe Blackford II 6 years ago

RepKnox - May I suggest you call this the John Wilkes Booth Memorial CC Law?

and in other news, as KSU security arrived upon the scene, they mistakenly shot both students carrying guns. Manhattan's Barney Fife later found the CC permit on the dead hero. His Facebook page states Marshall "Burp" Earp was a fan of John Wayne westerns. The family traces its roots to the eldest Earp brother who owned a cathouse in Abilene, once protected by his brother, Wyatt, before moving to Dodge City . . . . .

getreal 6 years ago

I just love these hypocrites. Government bad, but I'll take MY government paycheck. Government provided health care bad, but I'll take MY government provided health care. Gun bans in public buildings bad, but gun bans in the Capitol where Forrest works is good. The party so concerned with job creation gives us this right out of the gate. WHERE ARE THE JOBS YOU PROMISED??????????

Joe Hyde 6 years ago

I wish the energy behind this issue of gun ownership/carry could be re-directed in such a way that the universities and the NCAA develop a comprehensive athletic program of competitive shooting sports. Pistol, rifle, air rifle, trap, skeet, metallic silhouettes, biathlon, sporting clays, etc. -- all these contests held between universities would be a great way for young folks who enjoy firearms to get their ya-yas out. They would be athletes officially representing their schools and their states, a pretty cool feeling as any athlete can tell you.

Moreover, holding these various competitive matches at college level would certainly improve our nation's chances of medaling in the Olympic shooting sports. The cream gets a chance to rise to the top.

By comparison, letting young shooters pack concealed heat into regular college classrooms does nothing to improve their shooting skill, much less generate a favorable public interest in the shooting sports.

RoeDapple 6 years ago

umm, mmm, mmmmmm, mm, mm! Give me my guns but don't touch my junk! . . . The Revolution is gonna be awkward . . .

lorim 6 years ago

I am a faculty member, and I do not want my students or my colleagues carrying concealed weapons on campus. It is a terrible idea. I will actively lobby against it.

Flap Doodle 6 years ago

You could move to one of the two remaining states where concealed carry is not legal. We'll come down to the bus station and wave as you leave.

RoeDapple 6 years ago

Funny. The ones who would carry illegally on campus, in class - - - already are.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years ago

I'd wager that 99.9% of those who regularly carry concealed guns on campus will continue to do so whether this law is changed or not. The only real effect a change to this law will have is an increase in the number of guns on campus.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years ago

Doesn't change what I said in the least. Just because the number of legal guns carried is increased doesn't mean there'll be a decrease in illegal carriers.

In other words, as I already said--

The only real effect a change to this law will have is an increase in the number of guns on campus.

And we'll still be a violent society, with just one more stamp of approval from the legislature.

RoeDapple 6 years ago

I would like to see your statistics that show an increase of violence due to legalized CCW . . . . . . Oh, that's what I thought.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years ago

Didn't say there would be. But there won't be any significant decrease, either.

Wack jobs like the guy at Virginia Tech are suicidal, anyway. The possibility of a shootout with some concealed carriers would likely be a motivation, not a deterrence. And if some non-carriers get caught in the crossfire, so much the better.

And we'll remain a violent society.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years ago

BTW, how many people have been shot on the KU campus in the 140 years or so of its existence?

jayhawklawrence 6 years ago

There are a lot of countries in the world that rely on armed guards with automatic weapons to protect college campuses. I have been in countries where I could see guards with UZI's standing in plain view. It creeped me out.

If given the choice of having to rely on the government for protection, I would much prefer an armed citizenry.

That may be one of the prerequisites to maintaining our liberty.

It may be hard to understand today, but in a future when our country may become rife with civil strife, are we a nation that can put our complete trust in poltical leaders or does the United States of America exist because of free individual citizens who created a nation that fears the power of politicians?

I think we need to be more concerned about the amount of power the government has been acquiring over our lives, not just the Democrats or the Republicans but rather, anyone in power trying to take away our rights in the age of technology when every secret about your life is available with a few mouse clicks and no law is going to stop the government from getting something they want bad enough.

We should consider the lesson of the frog in the frying pan and ask ourselves an important question. Are individual freedoms, property rights and respect for individual citizens of the United States weaker or stronger than they were 25 years ago?

The growing power of technology to monitor the lives of individual citizens is something that may be our downfall if the children of free men are not threatened by being disarmed by their own government under the pretense that they will be safer.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years ago

The way to keep the government from getting power over us is to exercise power over the government. Government is nothing more than a tool, and right now it's becoming more and more of a tool for corporate interests, and not for the rest of us who make up the vast majority.

somedude20 6 years ago

Well, I do not feel safe just having a loaded handgun hidden in my pants. With all of the thugs and people who already have guns, I will only feel safe once I can carry a loaded rocket launcher.

libertarianjim 6 years ago

Does anyone really think the Kansas Legislature is capable of proper governance?

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