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Archive for Saturday, May 1, 2010

Document: BP had no plan for major oil spill

Brown pelicans and gulls fly in front of oil booms Friday along the shoreline at Pass a l‘Outre, La., where the Mississippi River meets the Gulf of Mexico. Wildlife in the region is vulnerable to the looming oil spill from last week’s collapse and spill of the Deepwater Horizon oil rig.

Brown pelicans and gulls fly in front of oil booms Friday along the shoreline at Pass a l‘Outre, La., where the Mississippi River meets the Gulf of Mexico. Wildlife in the region is vulnerable to the looming oil spill from last week’s collapse and spill of the Deepwater Horizon oil rig.

May 1, 2010

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— British Petroleum once downplayed the possibility of a catastrophic accident at an offshore rig that exploded, causing the worst U.S. oil spill in decades along the Gulf Coast and endangering shoreline habitat.

In its 2009 exploration plan and environmental impact analysis for the well, BP suggested it was unlikely, or virtually impossible, for an accident to occur that would lead to a giant crude oil spill and serious damage to beaches, fish and mammals.

At least 1.6 million gallons of oil have spilled so far since the April 20 explosion that killed 11 workers, according to Coast Guard estimates. One expert said Friday that the volume of oil leaking from the well nearly 5,000 feet below the surface could actually be much higher, and that even more may escape if the drilling equipment continues to erode.

“The sort of occurrence that we’ve seen on the Deepwater Horizon is clearly unprecedented,” BP spokesman David Nicholas told The Associated Press on Friday. “It’s something that we have not experienced before ... a blowout at this depth.”

Amid increased fingerpointing Friday, efforts sputtered to hold back the giant oil spill seeping into Louisiana’s rich fishing grounds and nesting areas, while the government desperately cast about for new ideas for dealing with the growing environmental crisis. President Barack Obama halted any new offshore drilling projects unless rigs have new safeguards to prevent another disaster.

The seas were too rough and the winds too strong to burn off the oil, suck it up effectively with skimmer vessels, or hold it in check with the miles of orange and yellow inflatable booms strung along the coast.

The floating barriers broke loose in the choppy water, and waves sent oily water lapping over them.

“It just can’t take the wave action,” said Billy Nungesser, president of Louisiana’s Plaquemines Parish.

The spill — a slick more than 130 miles long and 70 miles wide — threatens hundreds of species of wildlife, including birds, dolphins and the fish, shrimp, oysters and crabs that make the Gulf Coast one of the nation’s most abundant sources of seafood. Louisiana closed some fishing grounds and oyster beds because of the risk of oil contamination.

BP’s 52-page exploration plan for the Deepwater Horizon well, filed with the federal Minerals Management Service, says repeatedly that it was “unlikely that an accidental surface or subsurface oil spill would occur from the proposed activities.”

And while the company conceded that a spill would impact beaches, wildlife refuges and wilderness areas, it argued that “due to the distance to shore (48 miles) and the response capabilities that would be implemented, no significant adverse impacts are expected.”

Robert Wiygul, an Ocean Springs, Miss.-based environmental lawyer and board member for the Gulf Restoration Network, said he doesn’t see anything in the document that suggests BP addressed the kind of technology needed to control a spill at that depth of water.

“The point is, if you’re going to be drilling in 5,000 feet of water for oil, you should have the ability to control what you’re doing,” he said.

Although the cause of the explosion was under investigation, many of the more than two dozen lawsuits filed in the wake of the explosion claim it was caused when workers for oil services contractor Halliburton Inc. improperly capped the well — a process known as cementing. Halliburton denied it.

Comments

Hydra 4 years, 8 months ago

Wasn't BP censured for bad management in the artic?

scott3460 4 years, 8 months ago

No. They plead guilty to a crime for their acts in the 2006 Prudhoe Bay oil spill.

That incident is not out of character, of course. Recall that they were also the corporate entity involved in the massive 2005 Texas oil refinery explosion that killed 15 workers.

BigPrune 4 years, 7 months ago

They were the perfect fall guy, especially since they are foreign owned. Now Obama can use this environmental disaster to stop off shore oil drilling and pass his cap and trade b.s.

If Bush blew the levies to hurt the black community in New Orleans, then who's to say that Obama wouldn't pull this kind of stunt, especially with his ties to the corrupt Chicago political mobster machine? Who will benefit from this tragedy? Obama's buddies like Soros and Buffett.

scott3460 4 years, 7 months ago

If one pleads guilty, one is hardly a fall guy.

I agree, Obama can and should use this environmental disaster to halt all off shore drilling. The risk of environmental devastation is simply far too great to trust to unchecked corporate interests.

Stuart Evans 4 years, 8 months ago

if only there were an amazing plant that could provide such a change...

phoggyjay 4 years, 8 months ago

i agree with AreUNorml... a magical plant that could be used for oil in diesel trucks... oh, wait... i wouldn't want to suggest something that's illegal

RogueThrill 4 years, 8 months ago

Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.

boltzmann 4 years, 8 months ago

no, actually, you are a joke. A caricature of a foaming-in-the-mouth partisan who spouts invective and innuendo not backed up by any facts or critical thinking - just mindless rants. The schtick is getting a bit old and tiresome - as well as predictable.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 8 months ago

If oil companies have to actually plan on how to prevent such accidents, or stop the flow of oil afterward, or do the cleanup, the potential expenses will likely mean that drilling in such areas is considered just too expensive.

On the other hand, fossil fuels in general rely on huge externalized costs in order to be profitable.

puddleglum 4 years, 8 months ago

why should they have to clean up? I mean all they are pumping out of the crust is crude oil, which is natural? that is like saying I should go to jail for digging up a bunch of dirt and then it rains on my dirt pile and my neighbor gets stuck in my mudslide.

parrothead8 4 years, 7 months ago

But if they weren't pumping it out of the crust, it would stay there. Instead, it's now going to coat the Gulf Coast in a sticky, suffocating sheen of black death. This is going to wipe out the Gulf Coast fishing industry and devastate the habitat of thousands of species, and it's all because Americans can't get by without driving their precious vehicles for every trip longer than a few hundred yards.

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

Devastating for Louisiana. My heart goes out to everyone on the coast trying to make a living from the sea. Anyone know how long it took for the full extent of the Valdez impact to be felt?

scott3460 4 years, 8 months ago

Far different situation, Jay. That was one large ship that emptied a finite amount in to an Alaskan Sound that acted to keep the oil in one area. The impacts continue to reverberate, although in diminishing amounts. This tragedy, on the other hand, involves amounts of oil that continue to gush, and will for the foreseeable future, and which will spread in a wide swath of ecological devastation. Those who opposed the risk of off shore drilling were right and that point will be driven home for many, many, many years to come.

esteshawk 4 years, 8 months ago

I cannot believe some would blame this on Obama? This, Mr. Shewmon, proves once and for all that you are an idiot.

Who was at the controls when this was approved? Who's former company was involved in the actual construction? Who traded the cost of building in correctly from BP for the cost of cleanup to the taxpayers and residents of the Gulf coast? How's that whole free-market-get-no-role-for-government ideology treating those who live along the gulf coast?

Bozo- "expense"? What's this going to cost to clean up? Not just the clean up costs, but also the damage done to the local economy. If you like shrimp or oysters, your cost just went up. How much taxpayer expense just went here? Your cost just went up. How much cost from the unpredictable nature of off shore oil? Your cost just went up.

And I gotta believe pudleglum is joking, right?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 8 months ago

"Bozo- "expense"? What's this going to cost to clean up? Not just the clean up costs, but also the damage done to the local economy. If you like shrimp or oysters, your cost just went up. How much taxpayer expense just went here? Your cost just went up. How much cost from the unpredictable nature of off shore oil? Your cost just went up."

This is precisely the point I was making.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 8 months ago

Bush got the treatment he deserved (well, not really-- he should have been impeached, then tried and convicted, put in prison.)

This disaster was years in the making (largely under Bush/Cheney's oil-friendly watch,) and it only happened a few days ago. If Obama fails as badly as Bush did, then he deserves whatever criticism comes his way. But at this stage of the game, he hasn't had time to either pass or fail the test.

But I don't know why I bother. As I've said before, you're either a persistent parody of a "conservative," or an extremely disturbed individual.

grammaddy 4 years, 8 months ago

I'm assuming you are talking about Katrina which we saw coming a week ahead of time and W didn't come off vacation until day 4 of that disaster.Esteshawk is right, you are an Idiot! How about you stop blaming Obama for everything W did? And watch something besides Faux Noise once in a while. Get a clue!!

tomatogrower 4 years, 8 months ago

This was not a natural disaster. This was man made by a corporation who puts profit before safety and the environment. This was a result of the lax regulations our government required during the last 20 some years. The US does not require that companies have a remote shut off, like other countries, because we just wouldn't want to put extra expense on these poor, poor businesses. BP needs to be out of business and all their assets seized immediately to pay for this mess. They need to go after Haliburon too, if they were also involved. Who needs to worry about terrorists when we have corporations who could care less about our country. The morons talk about taking our country back, but we need to take it back from the corporations who have bought our government.

esteshawk 4 years, 8 months ago

Once again, instead of formulating an argument, you spout about the media. Sorta ironic that you are using this media site to spew. And in case you didn't know it, this is not a natural disaster, but a man-made one. One authorized under the Bush administration, I might add (and did).

scott3460 4 years, 8 months ago

Strange, the right wingers have spent much of the last year decrying the "socialist" interference of the government in the holy private marketplace, yet there is no hue and cry from this crowd about the US taxpayers cleaning up after BP's negligence. Wonder why?

whats_going_on 4 years, 7 months ago

people will find any reason to blame the guy-in-charge whom they despise.

People did it with Bush and Katrina and with Bush and the towers. What makes you think now is any different?

scott3460 4 years, 7 months ago

My point is that their motivations have nothing to do with socialism, or government action, and more to do with why they despise President Obama.

whats_going_on 4 years, 7 months ago

oh I totally wasn't disagreeing with you, it makes total sense. Just saying, people did it back then for probably the same reasons. Well, lack of reasons really, just general dislike.

esteshawk 4 years, 8 months ago

Earlier post didn't even mention the moral cost for the damaged ecosystems.

esteshawk 4 years, 8 months ago

You feel no more moral remorse for the killing of animals without just cause?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 8 months ago

Obama's decision to allow more offshore drilling was indeed a mistake-- one he's immediately backed off from.

Other than that, everything in your post is factually incorrect.

scott3460 4 years, 8 months ago

Or before you EVER spend another nickel at a BP gas station.

Why there are no organize efforts to boycott BP in response to this man-made tragedy, I will never understand.

scott3460 4 years, 8 months ago

Yes we need cars and will for the foreseeable future. The prior post's point was let's cut demand for oil by reducing our consumption. And I agree.

If we are going to continue to use oil, however, my point is that we have a choice about those with whom we choose to do business. I am sure we have all seen the BP commercials. Clearly they chose to spend money on advertising for more business, rather than doing business in an ethical manner. There ought to be a reaction to that decision.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 8 months ago

What do you expect him to do? There is no good fix for this disaster.

And yes, there do need to be better controls that will keep this from happening again-- that'll be much cheaper that the damage of accidents like this and the subsequent cleanup.

boltzmann 4 years, 8 months ago

No, the LA governor requested in a letter two days before landfall that Bush declare a federal state of emergency. There is a good description of the timeline at

http://www.factcheck.org/article348.html

scott3460 4 years, 8 months ago

So now the assorted teabaggers/birthers/klansmen and mental midgets are demanding Obama and the government interfere with the marketplace. Incredible!

esteshawk 4 years, 8 months ago

Ummm.. . . the President is not elected to "come up with a plan" - he appoints others to do that. BTW, the last administration should have had BP have a clean up plan in place before allowing this to be built without one, and for allowing Haliburton to build the shut-off valve incorrectly.

It's quite pathetic that people are "spinning" this as Obama's fault. Instead of thinking about the actual cause, effects, possible solutions, and long term ramifications to such issues as gas price, food costs, local economies, etc, I guess it's just easier to let prejudices do your thinking for you.

esteshawk 4 years, 8 months ago

Again, Obamas fault? This disconnect between reality and your prejudicial ideology is unbelievable. . . but yet there it is.

beatrice 4 years, 8 months ago

Your oil stock holdings? I don't believe it for a second. Morons typing away nonsense from their mommie's basement don't have oil stock holdings.

yourworstnightmare 4 years, 8 months ago

Time to stop studying it. Time for action. Drill baby drill, not stall baby stall.

Or is that spill baby spill?

Deja Coffin 4 years, 8 months ago

It's so frustrating when big companies like BP and even the Massey Coal Co. in West Virginia have something like this happen and then we find out that they had no plan of action in case of oil spill, they weren't probably releasing gases in the coal mine, etc. Who regulates these companies? Shouldn't it be required that there be a spill clean-up plan, just in case. I don't get how these companies are virtually left to do whatever they want until something or somebody gets hurt and then all their shady operating is exposed. I don't get it.

scott3460 4 years, 8 months ago

Go read the Citizen's United case from the current right wing majority on our Supreme Court and the "how" and the "why" will begin to dawn on you.

Deja Coffin 4 years, 8 months ago

Maybe.... then again you might be over estimating my word comprehension skills. :-) I'm just curious who the big companies answer to. We recently had an accident in Lawrence that cost two people their lives and it seemed like it was something preventable that just slip through the cracks.

tomatogrower 4 years, 8 months ago

Seize all of BP's assets not before they have hidden them all. Throw the executives in jail, now.

Ralph Reed 4 years, 8 months ago

@Tom: Get off of it! You know full well that this was done well before President Obama was elected. Stop showing your a** and realize he is not the root cause of the problem. Unless, of course, he engineered this so it would happen while he was in office.

However, I do remember something about a junior senator from Illinois being gone for a few weeks while the oil rig was being constructed by Halliburton. Something to do with a deep sea excursion, timed explosives, and all sorts of neffarious doings.

Once again, we (yes, you included Tom) are saddled with the cost of picking up the pieces from BP's excess. Keep in mind, they're just an example. But the last time (remember Texas City) all gas prices went up and theirs went up 10 cents more. Wonder how much they'll go up now?

Regarding safety concerns, can anyone tell me why the US is the only country that does not require an automatic shut-off valve at the well head? Also, why was the rig allowed to continue operating after failing safety inspections. Note to Tom: This also happened before President Obama was elected.

Final note to Tom: Just so you'll be at ease President Obama had nothing to do with original sin, the apple and Eve. I'll conceed that President Bush also had nothing to do with that event.

esteshawk 4 years, 8 months ago

Shewmon - you've exhausted my attempts at cogent thought: You're lost and impossible. Enjoy you hatred as you slide into Eternal Anger.

scott3460 4 years, 8 months ago

He very publicly did for the miners killed as a result of the same sort of reckless corporate negligence, so your point is a weak one at best.

Who knows if any services have even been held when bodies have not yet been recovered.

scott3460 4 years, 8 months ago

Yeah, but what was his old hag, she devil mother doing at the time?

beatrice 4 years, 8 months ago

The conservatives who whine about how intrusive the government is in business affairs now think the government should be instantly on the spot to handle a business caused disaster. What a joke. This is a horrible, MAN made disaster. Katrina was a natural disaster. Huge difference.

The other difference is that lives are not on the line right now, as in the days following Katrina. Following Katrina, people died because of government inaction. Now, the coastline is in danger because the oil business is inable to control its own disaster. What is on the line right now aren't human lives, but the environment -- and since when have Republicans cared about the environment? As the mantra goes, Drill Baby Drill!

I know. Maybe we really do need greater regulation on business practices after all. Anyone whining that Obama hasn't solved the oil businesses disaster are the same people who whine that Obama is too involved in business issues. Fools.

scott3460 4 years, 8 months ago

With all due respect, beatrice, I think the more appropriate term is "corporate-made disaster." The Citizen's United arm of the right wing may think a corporation is a person, but I never will and the distinction needs to be made whenever possible. Cowardly men acting behind the protection of the corporate structure did this and the right wing fascists in this country have afforded those entities the same rights and privileges as you and me, but require far, far less responsibility.

beatrice 4 years, 7 months ago

Correction noted -- corporate-made disaster, absolutely.

tomatogrower 4 years, 8 months ago

The only reason Bush was criticized after Katrina is because he made a political appointment to FEMA based on campaign contributions, not competence. The government is doing everything possible this time. They were right there to help rescue survivors and they are trying to stop the oil spill, an impossible task. What is BP and Halliburton doing? Trying to cover their behinds. How many tea party people, BP executives, or Halliburton people are out there cleaning birds? I'll bet none.

Ralph Reed 4 years, 8 months ago

A popular definition of insanity is, "Doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different result."

I've come to realize that I must be somewhat insane. I keep trying to have a cogent debate with Tom, expecting that he'll find another argument than his Obama/Pelosi/Reid mantra. Obviously, this isn't going to happen. But, it is fun trying and I do love when he froths at the mouth online.

I think I'll stay the way I am. It's more fun to be insane and watch other people scurry around like Chicken Little. Thanks Tom, you're a great show. Keep it up.

whats_going_on 4 years, 7 months ago

would you ever say you were wrong?

Highly, HIGHLY doubtful.

tomatogrower 4 years, 8 months ago

Seize BP and Halliburton assets now. Make them pay for this. They could care less about what they have done. Make they care.

Ralph Reed 4 years, 8 months ago

Tom, Let's play Q&A for a bit. No anti "everything I don't believe in" rants please, just answer the questions.

  1. Did BP own the oil rig? Yes or No

Mike Ford 4 years, 7 months ago

I'm a former resident of Lake Charles, Joneville, and Shreveport. I have family members who lost their homes in Katrina on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. Having grown up in the Cancer Petrochemical Triangle in Lake Charles in the late 1970's, I remember all of the stuff like PPG and Tenneco and the other chemical work that was done there then. Baton Rouge is nothing but chemical smoke stacks lining the Mississippi River from the Atchafalaya Basin side view.

I laugh at the Shewmon and Penders chuckleheads who put this on Obama. REALLY!!! You dumblicans are always for deregulation and watering down of EPA powers. The Bush Administration was so good at wrecking EPA authority to promote capitalism that Christine Whitman left. Why do the dumblicans get so much money from industry and allow closed door energy policy meetings as what happened with Cheney during Bush. I love how selectively short your dumblicans memories are. I've been to Cameron and Avery Island. I hope YOUR captialism has a conscience because you obviously don't. The Houma people of southern LA love how you look the other way also.

independant1 4 years, 7 months ago

Where does the buck stop?

We could all go down there and get us some of that "Organic" oil before the huge evil corporations (who provide good jobs with cafeteria style benefits and pensions) add all those perservatives and crap that make us sick.

The Republicans mopped up, the Democrats gummed up, and I will now try and sum up. Things are terribly dull now. We won’t have any more serious comedy until Congress meets. (Will Rogers Okie with 8/32 Cherokee blood)

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

"I know the above anti-Shewmon commentators"

Who's "anti-Shewmon?" You're the most endearingly daft BushCo sycophant I've ever encountered.

"know exactly what I'm talking about: Obama and Crew's slow reaction time"

Short of shutting down all oil rigs a week before this happened, what would have had them do differently?

"Again, if GWB had waited 12 days to show (at least five days since the severity of this was realized) up at the scene, the corrupt media would've severely lambasted him."

It would have been perfectly acceptable (preferable, really) if W had never showed up in NO at all. What was criminal was what his administration did, and didn't do, in reacting to the situation.

I couldn't care less if Obama never goes down there either. I mean, what's he supposed to do, put on some waders and help with the cleanup? That might be a nice photo-op, but it wouldn't mean his administration is doing what's necessary to mitigate the effects of this disaster.

I know for you, Tom, the mere fact that Obama isn't on your "team" is all the indication of failure that's necessary.

What I'll be looking for is not only how they react in cleaning up this mess, but I'll also be looking at what they do about the offshore drilling industry, which has clearly been operating for the last 50 years with absolutely no plans on what to do in the event of such an accident.

What I expect him to do is to shut down all offshore oil rigs until each one has reviewed a) that this can't happen on that rig, b) and they have a plan for cleaning it up if it does, including how that will be paid for.

Finally, Sarah Palin made an idiotic statement about precisely this topic, and it got one article. Suck it up, Tom, your hero babe is an idiot, and she got called on it.

independant1 4 years, 7 months ago

oh my gosh (omg)

deja vu?

Just another gratuitous presidential mississippi delta flyover

Wouldn't want to get the feet wet

Where's the press when a good feeding frenzy is on the table?

Busch's fault.

repaste 4 years, 7 months ago

This rig was leased, not owned by BP ,I believe. It was not an active well, it was capped by Haliburton to be retapped at another time. I am unclear as to why more holes help our supply when so many are held, like money in the bank. Refinement seems to be the carefully controlled bottleneck. I am also confused as to why we pump oil up, transport great distances to strategic reserves, pump it back down. Why not drill and cap as this was? This has nothing to do with Dem/Pub, the corporations run this country/world.

Ralph Reed 4 years, 7 months ago

Sorry Tom, I'm asking the questions, you'll have your turn when I'm done. Also, don't use a diminutive of my name, I've not given you permission to do that. I don't try and offend you by doing that to you, now do I?

  1. Was Halliburton the oil contractor on the BP rig? Yes or no.

(NOTE: I had to do the same thing with "He Who Shall Not Be Named" in order to get a straight answer out of him.)

phoggyjay 4 years, 7 months ago

Hemp oil, hemp oil, hemp oil... problem solved.

Ralph Reed 4 years, 7 months ago

Not sensitive Tom, it's more of an insult from people I don't know, and that's how I considerate it when you call me that. I don't call you Tommie or Tommie Boy, now do I?

I'm asking a series of questions Tom, trying to get to a point. I'll respond to yours when I'm done, fear not. I know you answered yes to the first one, now what is your answer to the second one?

tomatogrower 4 years, 7 months ago

This whole forum has gotten away from the original story, hijacked again. Why didn't BP have a plan? Should the government seize all their assets? What can we do to prevent this again? What should happen to BP? How was Halleiburton involved? Are the hijackers of this forum just doing their usual ranting or do they own a lot of stock in BP and Halliburton?

scott3460 4 years, 7 months ago

I vote for a corporate death penalty, but at a minimum - no State with coastal oil drilling capabilities should ever allow them to do business unless they demonstrate a viable plan for catastrophic events that is validated by an independent government agency. Should also have to post sufficient surety bond that would cover the result of a failure of any plan.

Citizens should demonstrate their appreciation for the way BP and their corporate partners have elected to do business by choosing not to do business with them in the future. There are multiple alternative entities from which to buy gas and convenience store items.

scott3460 4 years, 7 months ago

Well, Tom, you're even wrong about this. BP traded around 59-60 for the week prior to this disaster. Since then the stock has fallen to 52 or so today. That's a 10-12 percent drop. Not tiny in my book.

scott3460 4 years, 7 months ago

Down to 50 at today's close. What's that a 15% or so decline. Can't imagine there will be a lot of buyers in the foreseeable future.

Makes me even more proud of my decision to park the bulk of my funds in socially responsible investments.

whats_going_on 4 years, 7 months ago

No one forced them to have a plan. Easier, cheaper way always wins.

It's like the seatbelt argument. "No one needs a seatbelt" until something terrible happens. Or like food regulation. No one regulated the temperature and way meat should be handled until people died.

I don't know if the government should seize assets, but they should be punished, extremely punished, and be forced to pay HUGE losses in damages and honestly...probably stop doing business altogether until they can find a definite solution of this not happening again.

I don't know how they drill for oil really, so I don't know about a solution. They need to be forced to come up with one though, PROVE that this can be done safely.

And as for this forum, it's all Obama's fault. It's always somebodies fault. Anybody but the actual company that failed and caused it, that is. Just the usual finger pointing and name calling, shouldn't expect anything else from this blog or any other. :(

scott3460 4 years, 7 months ago

Kind of destroys your whole Obama's a socialist rant, doesn't it?

Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

What is "it" with "people" getting "all" egregious with "quotation marks" "today"?

Kirk Larson 4 years, 7 months ago

Famous last words (like before the Iraq invasion): Nothing could possibly go wrong.

KS 4 years, 7 months ago

It appears that neither BP or the Feds had a plan for this disaster. Last I heard, a North Korean sub blew it up. Not much on that story because BO would rather blame BP than have to deal with the international crisis.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

Fortunately, KS, Obama doesn't get his intel from the wingnut wackosphere, so he'll likely deal with this as an environmental crisis, rather than creating an international one.

KS 4 years, 7 months ago

bozo, you could be right, but this one came from the Russians.

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