Archive for Friday, March 19, 2010

City nears deal on Farmland property

The city's plan to purchase farmland near Lawrence is almost complete. The city plans to convert the space into a business park, attracting jobs for Lawrence residents.

March 19, 2010


Lawrence city commissioners are being told that a deal has been struck that will clear the way for the city to soon take over ownership of the former Farmland Industries plant.

Commissioners at their Tuesday evening meeting will be briefed on a deal that would transfer $8.5 million of trust fund money to the city in exchange for the city taking over ownership and cleanup responsibilities of the former fertilizer plant.

“It is just critically important to have locations for businesses that want to bring jobs to this community,” said City Manager David Corliss, who has been working on the deal for the 467-acre property. “That’s what this will bring us.”

It also will bring some risk. The $8.5 million in trust fund money is less than the $13.3 million the Kansas Department of Health and Environment estimates will be needed for 30 years of cleanup.

But Corliss said a city analysis shows the numbers can be workable. Corliss said if city interest rates return to their historical average — about 3.5 percent — the city could earn about $4.4 million in interest on the trust fund. That would give the city about $12.8 million to clean up the property. Corliss also said he’s hopeful the city’s costs to clean up the property will be less than KDHE has estimated. Of the $13.3 million estimate, $2.1 million is a contingency. Corliss also proposes using city employees for much of the cleanup work, which largely involves pumping contaminated groundwater out of the soil and onto farm fields.

The city’s analysis, though, does bet on interest rates soon rising. Currently, the city receives less than 1 percent interest on its investments, Corliss said.

Those costs also do not include what is expected to equal many millions of dollars to extend utilities and infrastructure to the site. But Corliss said the city expects development of the property to partially pay for those costs. He said special assessments likely will be placed on the property to recoup infrastructure costs. A recent appraisal by the city estimates that 10-acre industrial lots on the site — once roads and utilities are extended — would sell for $1 million.

City commissioners previously have been supportive of taking ownership of the property.

“It is absolutely the time to have this discussion with the community,” Commissioner Mike Amyx said. “I think staff has done a very good job of making sure we understand everything that potentially could be a problem out there.

“But if we invest that money wisely, I think we’re going to have ground for future employers for probably the next 25 years.”

The latest development in the Farmland saga — the city has been working on the project for more than three years — is a deal with Overland Park-based Capitana Redevelopment Group. The group previously purchased a legal stake in a portion of the trust fund money that had been set aside by Farmland Industries as part of its bankruptcy process. Without the deal, the city likely would have received only about $6 million of the $10 million that is in the trust, Corliss said. Capitana will receive the remaining funds of about $2 million, Corliss said.

Corliss said he will recommend that commissioners direct staff members to prepare the final documents that will allow the city to take over ownership by the end of this spring. He said his recommendation is based partly on a lack of interest from the private sector in the property. Private developers have expressed interest in the site, but commissioners have not been convinced that developers are committed to fully cleaning the site or using it for a business park.

“We would love for a corporate white knight to come in and do this,” Corliss said. “But it is like leaving the runway lights on for Amelia Earhart. I just don’t think it is going to happen.”


just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 1 month ago

“We would love for a corporate white knight to come in and do this,” Corliss said.

Isn't that the conventional wisdom within chambocrat eco-devo world? You know, throw enough corporate welfare at companies, and the white knights will be our economic salvation.

Jodi_B 8 years, 1 month ago

I apparently haven't lived in Lawrence long enough to know where the "former Farmland Industries plant" is. I'm thinking it's the place off K-10 on the East side of town. Can someone help me out on this?

somebodynew 8 years, 1 month ago

Jodi_B-- you are correct. That is the place.

workinghard 8 years, 1 month ago

Is he willing to put his future earnings on the line if it doesn't work out? You know in the private sector, if an employee makes a very costly mistake, they usually get fired. That has not been the case with the City of Lawrence, maybe it's time to change that.

cowboy 8 years, 1 month ago

Now why would some company pay 100K per acre in todays age of cities giving away land to get the business located there ?

For a million dollars I can buy a property with at least a 150 acres , build my plant and sell off the rest.

And just where and who are these companies looking to buy a million dollar plot ?

And who locally is making money on this deal ?

Godot 8 years, 1 month ago

Who is making money on this deal? Certainly not the taxpayers. Those runway lights have blinded Corliss. He is making assumptions about rising interest rates at a time when the economy of the state is in decline, when the Federal Reserve has promised to keep interest rates at zero, when the state is losing tax revenue faster than ever in history, budget cuts are only just beginning.....

If Corliss expects to earn $5 million on $8.5 million at a fantasy rate of 3.5 percent interest, he must be planning on socking that money away and not touching it for years. Is that the plan?

Jennifer Alexander 8 years, 1 month ago

I am all for cleaning up the Farmland Plant. But, how about utilizing the several emtpy lots in the East Hills Business Park? Why build when you already have vacant buildings that might work just as well. I think it might save some money.

50YearResident 8 years, 1 month ago

What? Let me get this right. Corliss says: "Corliss also proposes using city employees for much of the cleanup work, which largely involves pumping contaminated groundwater out of the soil and onto farm fields." Just who are these farmers that are going to let the City pump contaminated ground water onto their farm fields? The KDHE is sure to approve that. Sure it is ok to bring up contaminated ground water and put it right back on top of the ground to soak back into the ground water because it will take a few days to re-enter into the system! How many new city employees is it going to take to be trained in disposal of contaminated waste projects? The current staff is not going to be albe to be diverted for a 30 year project. Last, but not not least, just how is Overland Park-based Capitana Redevelopment Group connected to this project? " Capitana will receive the remaining funds of about $2 million, Corliss said." What are these people doing for their $2 Million share? Put this to a vote and it will be voted down by 80%.

tcs 8 years, 1 month ago

By the time the trust fund has earned $4M the cost of inflation and rising wages will have pushed the $13M cost to over $20M. The city should just buy it and tear out the old buildings getting rid of an eye sore with the trust money. Get rid of the eye sore now and think about cleaning the soil when economic times are better.

50YearResident 8 years, 1 month ago

Murphey's Law:

" If something can go wrong, it will"

I wonder if the City of Lawrence has ever heard of this one?

headdoctor 8 years, 1 month ago

I wished some people in the City Government wouldn't keep hitting their stash so often. The figures mentioned, considering the state of the economy is quite a pipe dream. If it is such a great deal why hasn't there been a feeding frenzy of private investors circling the property? All the private concerns were only interested in the trust fund. I was thinking that one company still may have some rights to the interest or any left overs of the fund.

Richard Heckler 8 years, 1 month ago

The school district, city and chamber are too much involved in real estate speculation with other peoples money.

How many other polluting operations are alive and well within the jurisdiction of Lawrence/Douglas County taxpayers?

Taxpayers it is NOT in our best interest to bring polluting industries to our tax base. Farmland filing bankruptcy to avoid total responsibility of clean up is not the exception. It is the corporate rule of thumb. Taxpayer net gain = zero.

Lawrence Kansas is too small to be playing big city games with our tax dollar give aways. I don't know anyone who wants Lawrence to a big city tax dollar give away city.

It is time to put the brakes on all future speculation. Stop all plans for all new infrastructure.

This recession is years away from over according to many news sources. If Lawrence has the money to gamble on real estate and interest rate speculation why then are all of the eastside streets and curbs not up to code? Surely disrepair is not meeting code.

Spending money on what might happen could be decades away from realization.

Want to create new jobs and spend money on real things? Fix the streets and curbs east of Mass Street. These are right now jobs. This pumps our tax dollars back into our economy.

headdoctor 8 years, 1 month ago

The only positive I can see in this mess is if the primary contamination is nitrogen and ammonia concentrations, that could help some of the local farmers and gardeners cut production costs for fertilizer provided they don't over apply the ground water.

steveguy 8 years, 1 month ago

No No No. You know who will be paying for this, just watch.

So_tired_of_the_whiners 8 years, 1 month ago

50YearResident - KDHE has already approved. They have been pumping the contaminated ground water on to farm fields for years. Headdoctor is correct. It is contaminated with nitrogen.

50YearResident 8 years, 1 month ago

What is going to happen with the surface contamination? If it was that easy to get rid of the ground water contamination then Farmland would have pumped the ground water and sold it, don't you think? What is not being told about this project?

irvan moore 8 years, 1 month ago

We cannot pay to maintain what we have now and they want to buy a ecological nightmare to deal with? I sure miss Wildgen.

pace 8 years, 1 month ago

NOT leaving the site to be a seeping sore, returning it to a working site is smart. Not to fix that problem would be stupid. I have nothing against factories, we need factories in this country. Businesses should be held responsible for their costs. Farmland were criminals but we let them be that, they should of been regulated and failing that, jailed for how they did business. Industry is one of the most valuable resources our economy has but not if we let them pass their responsibilities to tax payers and keep the profits for their share holders. I look forward to a respectable factory with oversight.

somebodynew 8 years, 1 month ago

@beatnik - God, I never thought I would say this, but I agree - I too miss Mike in this instance. I know both and would trust Mike if he proposed this, but I reaaaallllllyyy don't think he would.

And I agree with 50Year, if it was THAT easy to get rid of ground contamination, then why wasn't Farmland doing it??? And, to follow up, if it is that easy just why the H*11 is it going to cost millions and millions of dollars to do it now???

I don't think all the facts are being disclosed here.

Ann Hamil 8 years, 1 month ago

This stinks to high heaven....WE cannot afford crossing guards or the kiddie wading pool, but we are going to play roulette with environmental cleanup and interest rates to the tune of millions of dollars?? Do you really think any lawyers we (the city) could hire could get past all the legal machinations and loopholes that a Capitana Redevelopment Group (or any corporation with a full time legal staff) could throw at them and NOT end up with the short end of the stick? For goodness sake, we could not even get Walmart to take no or even "not in this form" for an answer on the second store or pay for any traffic calming devices in the neighborhood after they "rammed it down our throats"--to recoin a phrase. Doesn't anyone remember the legal fees on the something like 43 separate lawsuits Walmart and Compton filed against us for not crossing every "t" and dotting every "i" (so much for tort reform) on that deal???? This is the same city manager who thought we could include "cats on leashes or under our verbal control" in the dog ordinance, and tax libraries--remember???

50YearResident 8 years, 1 month ago

Wasn't there an eariler mention about this project that 4 or 5 foot of top soil would have to be removed from the main site area, hauled away and disposed of someway? Can a couple of city employes accomplish this task with a bob cat ant a pickup truck? Or is it going to take a half dozen land scrapers and 30 dump trucks a year to accomplish? Those in the know please clarify this issue. Oh heck, I might have only dreamed this part up. Help me out here city.

Godot 8 years, 1 month ago

Perhaps we are missing the point. $8.5 million would do a lot to fill gaping budget holes and fulfill various wishlists. They could treat the "trust fund" the way the Fed gov has treated Social Security. Set it aside ostensibly to earn interest, and then "borrow" it for other projects. Then, 15 or 20 years down the line, they can hit up the taxpayers for a bailout.

Richard Heckler 8 years, 1 month ago

When a lot of folks supported the Farmland idea I seriously doubt they were backing Wall Street type of thinking.

The return on this investment is not guaranteed and may be negative--for good reason. During the 20th century, there were several periods lasting more than 10 years where the return on stocks was negative. After the Dow Jones stock index went down by over 75% between 1929 and 1933, the Dow did not return to its 1929 level until 1953(24 years). This analysis can easily apply to this endeavor.

This recession may be around for a long time. Only politicians are trying to tell us different.

It now may be time to allow a developer to put THEIR money on the line instead of US the taxpayer. One of the reasons citizens got behind Farmland is because it was thought that Lawrence could or would control exactly the development...... not this city commission or another like it.

Attached to this tax dollar spending may well be tax incentives so how will the taxpayer come out ahead?

Again... It now may be time to allow a developer to put THEIR money on the line instead of US the taxpayer. There are no guarantees for OUR tax dollar investment.

Spend OUR tax dollars on OUR city streets and OUR sidewalks. This employs people now and increases the value of older neighborhoods. I say let's get on with it.

Ann Hamil 8 years, 1 month ago

Ok, I know I will regret this, but BP how does this big money development interest bought and sold anti-progressive (Cromwell excepted) City Commish have anything to do with Obama?

jayhawklawrence 8 years, 1 month ago


"It is time to put the brakes on all future speculation. Stop all plans for all new infrastructure."

I don't get your reasoning. You are the same guy who posts all over this Blog and you are promoting the idea of an $18 million dollar expansion of the library.

Investing money in repairing streets, etc. does not have much to do with growing the local economy. These are necessary but investing in better industrial spaces and attracting growing industries and jobs is also very important.

The biggest problem in government is that it becomes a risk averting blood sucking bureacracy. I congratulate Corliss for being just the opposite. A guy that cares enough to try to be creative and move our community onto a growth path.

I don't know Corliss but he sounds like the right guy at the right time to me. Maybe we are real lucky to have him around.

tomatogrower 8 years, 1 month ago

Oh great, we have to clean up another big business mess, who left the town high and dry with unemployed workers and polluted land. And I'll bet the executives walked away with plenty of money for themselves after running the company into bankruptcy. But I forgot, I'm just having class envy. I'm just mad, because I have too many morals to screw people around.

BigPrune 8 years, 1 month ago

After living here for the past 50 years, I think it's time to pack my bags and move.

Richard Heckler 8 years, 1 month ago

Expansion of the library brings much needed maintenance plus expanding on site saves millions. Smart spending! What does a library in need of rehabilitation say about our city?

Growing the economy by way of promoting existing resources will produce new economic growth annually more effectively and efficiently. Empty buildings do not promote economic growth = extra load on taxpayers.

Improving streets and sidewalks east of Mass Street increases the value of property NOW and displays that the city cares about all of its' neighborhood aka existing resources.

Improving streets and sidewalks east of Mass Street grows the economy because it puts people to work NOW and keeps OUR tax dollars in Lawrence,Kansas. People working and spending money grows the economy for real. Whereas speculation may not grow the economy for years which is the likely scenario.

New infrastructure expands our demand on the same existing tax base/tax dollars = never getting ahead

Richard Heckler 8 years, 1 month ago

Keeping retail markets tight rather than flooded is business friendly and taxpayer friendly. As of now Lawrence is a flooded retail market which makes it undesirable and does not pay back the taxpayers. There is no new economic growth if taxpayers are being asked to subsidize new construction = investment not paying back = extra load on taxpayers.

"investing in better industrial spaces and attracting growing industries and jobs is also very important." Lawrence has plenty of existing retail, industrial and light industrial available as we speak. A 600,000 sq ft spec building was constructed in our industrial park "just in case" which sat empty for nine years - KU bought it for a song. Lawrence,Kansas does not seem to be as desirable as Topeka and the KCMO/JOCO metro.

Bedroom Communities are an extra load on taxpayers. Bedroom Communities indicate not enough jobs in the community = dollars spent elsewhere.

Improved land sitting empty or with empty buildings is an extra load on taxpayers.

Unimproved land sitting empty is NOT a load on taxpayers.

Richard Heckler 8 years, 1 month ago

Lawrence taxpayers cannot afford polluting industries and big city tax abatements,Tax Increment Financing(TIF) or tricky tax rebates all of which are known as the Free Lunch. The above create an extra load on taxpayers.

Not strong support for tax incentives:

I'd say that the problem may well be staying the course of "no new economic growth no matter the cost to taxpayers" that was set about 25 years ago.

BigPrune 8 years, 1 month ago

Your logic is flawed with a capital F. Restrictions ruined our community.

Smart Growth Ruined Our Quality of Life All Hail the (outdated it rolled off the presses) Sacred Cow Horizon 2020.

With all the educated people in Lawrence to boot!

Richard Heckler 8 years, 1 month ago

Flooding already Flooded Markets = extra load on taxpayers


Multiple neighbors said the area near their homes already had become saturated with apartment complexes. Representatives of the developers — a local group led by Lawrence businessman Mike Stultz — had agreed to beef up landscaping in the area, and limit the number of unrelated adults that could live in each unit to no more than two in an effort to address neighborhood concerns.

“I get that the neighborhood doesn’t want another apartment complex,” Commissioner Lance Johnson said. “The reality is more multi-family can be built on this property today. The developers have done more than what is required by code. To me, it is a very attractive proposal.”

(((( NOT GOOD ENOUGH I SAY! This is where Lawrence economic growth problems begin. What will the market bear? What can the market absorb? What will each empty bedroom cost the taxpayers? )))))

“I don’t know their target market and those issues,” Chestnut said. “If we get into trying to figure that out with every request, I believe our long-term planning will become very unpredictable.”

((((( Knowing target markets and those issues will make long term planning far more predictable and provide substance to decisions)))

Johnson was joined by Mayor Rob Chestnut in supporting the rezoning request. Chestnut said he did not want the decision to hinge on whether Lawrence’s market could absorb more apartments.

((((( Lawrence Kansas taxpayers and their decision makers should ALWAYS want to know what Lawrence markets will absorb no matter what! ))))))) This is where Lawrence,Kansas economic growth problems surface.

It is essential that in depth overall environmental economic impact studies accompany each project. That these studies be made available for public viewing promotes transparency.

jayhawklawrence 8 years, 1 month ago


Sorry, but being really confident does not make a person right.

I think now is the time to plan for when the economy rebounds. The best businesses are making moves to take advantage of the coming recovery by reviewing past mistakes and successes and making strategies for the future that are innovative and creative. Many of them are starting to invest and hire with that expectation in mind. They succeed because they have good instincts.

The world relies on talented people with good instincts and they aren't sitting back playing it safe all the time.

Sounds like your plan is to play it safe and be sorry in the future. I would find it hard to believe you have ever been much of an entrepreuneur or business person with such an attitude.

Richard Heckler 8 years, 1 month ago

It's all about using professional tools to make decisions. Instinct is not good enough.... there is no one that good. Taxpayers should be involved in every growth decision because tax dollars are involved everytime. One more reason to allow taxpayers to vote on all USD 497 projects,economic growth expansion projects,city annexation etc etc. Let the taxpayers decide. Voting on such matters once a year eliminates special interest preference. Haste makes waste!

Good instincts brought to Lawrence "boom town economics that which is not sustainable, the high tax dollar bedroom community,flooded retail market and flooded light industrial market. Office space is also on shaky ground.

Richard Heckler 8 years, 1 month ago

Helter skelter planning = more tax increases = we taxpayers are being asked to do too much as decision makers expand our tax bills based on extinct for example :

There is Farmland and there is also:

"Few people understand the long term ramifications of the court hearing that will take place this monday morning. This hearing is an appeal to the City of Lawrence's recent island annexation of the Farmer's Turnpike Land, and subsequent rezoning of it to heavy industrial. This process has flaunted all the usual procedures by which sound long term planning is done.

If the city's actions (driven essentially by a small group influenced by a developer, who have not followed proper procedure) are not overturned, essentially the desires of a single developer will have overruled dozens of years of city and county planning designed to serve the public interersts by building infrastructure where and how it will best serve the greatest good while keeping taxpayers costs to a minimum.

It appears that the developer is attempting to completely change the entire direction of growth of the city of Lawrence. (in the direction of where he has speculated on thousands of acres)

If this happens, we (taxpayers) will end up footing the bill for sewer, water and electric to service this area -- and it will likely necessitate that the future waste water treatment facility will not go where it was planned -- south of Lawrence where gravity will make it much less to operate, but instead to the NW. We will all pay for this foolish mistake for years to come."

Richard Heckler 8 years, 1 month ago

The above represents a laissez faire style of governing. This brings high tax dollar sprawl sponsored by OUR TAX DOLLARS. Our taxes fuel suburban sprawl without the approval of taxpayers.

Suburban sprawl has been rightly blamed for many things: destroying green space, increasing air and water pollution, fracturing our neighborhoods and forcing us to drive gridlocked roads for every chore.

But there is one consequence that usually goes unmentioned - sprawl is draining our pocketbooks and raising our taxes.

We've subsidized sprawl at such a basic level for so long, that many people believe the status quo is actually fair and neutral. This is false-what we think of as a level playing field is tilted steeply in favor of sprawling development. Grab YOUR wallets!

tomatogrower 8 years, 1 month ago

BigPrune (anonymous) says… Your logic is flawed with a capital F. Restrictions ruined our community.

Smart Growth Ruined Our Quality of Life All Hail the (outdated it rolled off the presses) Sacred Cow Horizon 2020.

With all the educated people in Lawrence to boot!

March 20, 2010 at 7:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Looking at the apartments and sprawl out to the west, when did we ever have smart growth? Certainly not when they allowed curb cuts for every Tom, Dick and Harry on 23rd street. Certainly not those soon to be party apartments on 31st street. Surely not the strip malls that seem to pop up everywhere. Surely not the WalMart complex which seems to not be doing as much business as they thought. Certainly not the Best Buy/Home Depot complex which still has empty buildings. Surely not the countless apartment complexes that have created a glut of rentals, but no decrease in rents. Why isn't supply and demand working here? Just because some people in Lawrence have supported smart growth, doesn't mean the city government has followed smart growth. In fact, most of the present commission is made up of developer supported flunkies.

BruceWayne 8 years, 1 month ago

am I the only one that scans right past comments by Merrill?

Richard Heckler 8 years, 1 month ago

Health Care is the growing industry. KU Med Center/KCMO metro seem to have that locked up. LMH relies on them. Seems LMH should be expanding locally.

Education seems to withstand economic ups and downs so I read frequently.

Lawrence,Kansas could have developed for $20 million a Vo-Campus that offers excellent paid positions and training that brings better paying positions. Instead we get dressed up football fields that sit empty most of the time.

I have noticed that nationally Lawrence is recognized for our art community. Except the governing bodies fail to capitalize on such. Why? Who knows... As Business Week pointed out the arts is a reliable industry when it suggested "follow the money" as in humans with money. Art is definitely one of those industries that covers the spectrum on ages.

Too bad Lawrence does not have a noted independent School of Art and Design. Maybe our local Art Center could consider a a focus in that direction.

jayhawklawrence 8 years, 1 month ago


"Helter skelter planning = more tax increases = we taxpayers are being asked to do too much as decision makers expand our tax bills based on extinct for example :"

It is unfair to say that successful business people rely only on instinct. However, without good instincts you will lose. I think you take it out of context. I have been around a lot of successful people in my life and they all had an uncanny sense of how to make good decisions. All educated themselves because that was also a good decision. There are a lot of people in Lawrence with a lot of education but not necessarily good instincts or decision making ability.

The current national financial collapse has been traced by some to a financial algorithm that the big investment banks relied on, obviously too much. You and I are paying the bill for that bit of mathematical genius.

Your support of an $18 million dollar expansion of the city library at this time does not seem to me to be based on sound reasoning. You also are heavily against improving the sports fields and remaining tied to Haskell Stadium. I see a lot of positives for the High Schools having these fields. They also improve the quality of life in our city and they are great for our bands too. I like them. That is a personal bias and not based on any theory that I know of.

When things go wrong it is usually not caused by people with real experience and sound judgement and good instincts. Usually problems are caused by people relying on theories.

I agree that if there is a developer that has too much influence on city government than this has to be exposed. I also agree that development should take place along K10 and not I70. The problem is that we did not finish the SLT and that is screwing up the natural growth of Lawrence. It is always going to come back to poor road planning. I think we lost a lot of good opportunities to attract growing industries and companies because of poor roads.

We have to define the use of the term "sprawl" because it is overused. People apply that word to any kind of growth or development whether it is positive or negative. I think you need to stop using it where it is not appropriate.

I like most of your posts. Just don't always agree.

Basically, you appear to be a no-growth proponent. I think a growing community is a healthier community.

"He not busy being born is busy dying". - Bob Dylan

50YearResident 8 years, 1 month ago

The other problem I see here is barypenders is smoking the whole time merrill is posting and it effects both posters with second hand smoke.

tomatogrower 8 years, 1 month ago

BruceWayne (anonymous) says… am I the only one that scans right past comments by Merrill?

Some of us have longer attention spans and better reading abilities than you.

humblecommentator 8 years, 1 month ago

Is the city paying anything for this land? Are they getting 13 million dollars and not paying anyhthing?

Jean1183 8 years, 1 month ago

humble......the way it was explained to me was, whoever is willing to take the least amount of the trust fund to clean up the property gets it. Then the remaining money in the trust fund gets divided among the share holders of the former Farmland Industries.

Tom Miller 8 years, 1 month ago

@ tomatogrower: merrill is one of several posters whos' comments I skim right by. Figured out long ago some are too self-enthralled, sorta like the nameless one, or they rely on too much cut-and-paste. I'm interested in original thoughts. I don't bitch and argue, I just skim over. Kinda like changing radio stations when a song doesn't appeal to me. Same thing with television. I respect their right to said ways and opinions, but see no reason to suffer thru some of it. Just too tedious, sometimes.

tomatogrower 8 years, 1 month ago

The share holders should get nothing. They took a chance on a company, they lost. Too bad.

50YearResident 8 years, 1 month ago

What happens if Lawrence takes a chance on this hazard project and fails to complete it? Will it be too bad, they get nothing, they lost?

BruceWayne 8 years, 1 month ago

tomato-was that a personal attack? i am not sure but it sure sounded like it.

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