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Archive for Friday, January 29, 2010

Jurors find Scott Roeder guilty of first-degree murder of George Tiller

Scott Roeder, accused of murdering prominent Kansas abortion provider Dr. George Tiller,  testifies at his trial on Thursday Jan. 28, 2010 in Wichita, Kansas. Roeder testified  that he killed Tiller in the foyer of Tiller's Wichita church on May 31. The 51-year-old Roeder also said he believes abortion is murder.

Scott Roeder, accused of murdering prominent Kansas abortion provider Dr. George Tiller, testifies at his trial on Thursday Jan. 28, 2010 in Wichita, Kansas. Roeder testified that he killed Tiller in the foyer of Tiller's Wichita church on May 31. The 51-year-old Roeder also said he believes abortion is murder.

January 29, 2010, 10:13 a.m. Updated January 29, 2010, 5:22 p.m.

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Roeder convicted of murder

A jury convicted Scott Roeder of first-degree murder Friday in the killing of George Tiller. Enlarge video

Jeanne Tiller, center, cries Friday in the courtroom as Scott Roeder is found guilty of premeditated, first-degree murder in the May 31 shooting death of her husband, Dr. George Tiller. Others in the photo are unidentified.

Jeanne Tiller, center, cries Friday in the courtroom as Scott Roeder is found guilty of premeditated, first-degree murder in the May 31 shooting death of her husband, Dr. George Tiller. Others in the photo are unidentified.

— Jurors swiftly convicted an abortion opponent of murder Friday for shooting to death one of the only doctors to offer late-term abortions in the U.S., a killing the gunman claimed was justified to save the lives of unborn children.

The jury deliberated for just 37 minutes before finding Scott Roeder, 51, of Kansas City, Mo., guilty of premeditated, first-degree murder for putting a gun to the forehead of Dr. George Tiller on May 31 and pulling the trigger.

Defense attorney Mark Rudy described his case as helpless and hopeless.

“I’ve never seen anyone lay himself out as much as Mr. Roeder did,” Rudy said after the verdict, referring to his client’s confessions.

Roeder faces a mandatory sentence of life in prison with the possibility of parole after 25 years when he is sentenced March 9. Prosecutor Nola Foulston said she would pursue a so-called “Hard 50” sentence, which would require Roeder to serve at least 50 years before he can be considered for parole.

Tiller’s widow, Jeanne, and the rest of the family quickly exited the courtroom after the verdict. In a statement, Jeanne Tiller said “once again, a Sedgwick County jury has reached a just verdict.”

The family said it wanted Tiller to be “remembered for his legacy of service to women, the help he provided for those who needed it and the love and happiness he provided us as a husband, father and grandfather.”

Roeder had confessed publicly before the trial and admitted again on the witness stand that he shot Tiller in the foyer of the Wichita church where the doctor was serving as an usher. He testified he felt the lives of unborn children were in “immediate danger” because of Tiller.

During closing arguments earlier Friday, Rudy urged the jury to reject the murder charge, saying, “no one should be convicted based on his convictions.”

Rudy mentioned leaders who stood up for their beliefs, including Martin Luther King Jr. They were “celebrated individuals (who) stood up and made the world a better place.”

“They leave their marks based on their words and deeds,” Rudy said.

But prosecutor Kim Parker said Roeder is “simply guilty of the crime he has been charged with.”

Prosecutor Ann Swegle told jurors to use their “common sense” when deliberating and find Roeder guilty based not only on the state’s case but also on Roeder’s own testimony in which he described how he killed Tiller in a “planned assassination.”

“There could be no other verdict in this case,” she said.

Roeder also was convicted of aggravated assault for pointing a gun at two ushers at Tiller’s church after the shooting. Wearing a dark suit with a red tie, he sat straightforward and expressionless as the verdict was read, moving his head toward the judge and to the jury as each juror confirmed his or her decision.

Roeder’s attorneys were hoping to get a lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter for Roeder, a defense that would have required them to show that Roeder had an unreasonable but honest belief that deadly force was justified.

Tiller’s Wichita clinic was the focus of many protests and had been under investigation by a former state district attorney who accused the doctor of skirting Kansas’ abortion laws.

Roeder was the sole defense witness after the judge barred testimony from two state prosecutors whom the defense subpoenaed in a bid to show Roeder believed Tiller was performing unlawful abortions and was frustrated charges against the doctor had been dismissed in one case. Jurors in the other case acquitted the doctor.

Roeder testified Thursday that he considered elaborate schemes to stop the doctor, including chopping off his hands, crashing a car into him or sneaking into his home to kill him. Roeder said he went to Reformation Lutheran Church on three other occasions to kill Tiller: once the evening before and once the week before Tiller was shot, and once in 2008, but Tiller was not at the church on those occasions.

But in the end, Roeder told jurors, the easiest way was to walk into Tiller’s church, put a gun to the doctor’s forehead and pull the trigger.

“Those children were in immediate danger if someone did not stop George Tiller,” Roeder told jurors.

But after hearing Roeder testify, District Judge Warren Wilbert ruled that his lawyers failed to show that Tiller posed an imminent threat and the jury could not consider a manslaughter verdict.

Prosecutors were careful during the first few days of testimony to avoid the subject of abortion and to focus on the specifics of the shooting. Wilbert said he did not want the trial to become a debate on abortion, but he did allow Roeder to discuss his views on the subject because his attorneys said they were integral to their case.

Comments

momof2kiddos 4 years, 2 months ago

I was very relieved that the jury's verdict found Mr. Roeder guilty. Now I am just waiting to hear the sentance scheduled for March. I lived in Wichita for 19 years and was always very aware of the anti-abortion activity at Dr.Tiller's clinic. The shooting death of Dr. Tiller last May (in a church-a place where you are supposed to feel safe and secure) made me very sad, especially for his family...As a child, I grew up in the same neighborhood, was friends with and went to the same school as the Tiller children. A family member of mine went to Medical School with Dr. Tiller, that is how I got to know their family. Dr. Tiller was providing legal abortions for women in all stages of pregnancy. Not just legal late term abortions. And yes....I also used Dr. Tiller's abortion services in May 1988 when I got pregnant at 19 years old....the abortion was performed when I was 9 weeks pregnant. My reason for having the abortion need not be posted...it is really not anyone's business to know why I made that choice..... Dr. Tiller was not just an abortion doctor....he was a kind hearted good man...a son, a husband, a father, a grandfather and a friend to many people. My deepest sympathy goes out to the entire Tiller family......Justice was prevailed!!! Mr. Roeder will live in jail with the possibility of parol...His jail term may not be permanent (he may suffer for a while during his time in jail)....but the death of Dr. Tiller is permanent and his loved ones will suffer forever!!!

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porch_person 4 years, 2 months ago

ComradeRedRooster,

What in the name of God's grey Earth are you talking about? You're out there. Clearly you think I'm someone else. Get oriented.

Your analogies are bizarre. A healthy fetus in the womb is much different from one with no brain or non-developing lungs. Murdering physicians in their own church won't suddenly become a "good idea" anytime in the near or distant future, like hiding Jews from certain death or blacks from slavery. You're a nutcase if that's the future you visualize.

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ComradeRedRooster 4 years, 2 months ago

PP, What learnin is that, how to put together some graphics in an article for some authors then call it my own published article? Is that how you did it for KU Med?

My analogy is entirely appropriate, are you having comprehension problems again.

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porch_person 4 years, 2 months ago

ComradeRedRooster,

I like how you just make crap up and apply inappropriate analogies just at whim. Refreshingly dishonest.

Dr. George Tiller operated within the law, a law that's been around for a long time. Phill Kline skirted the law going after Dr. Tiller and didn't even have the courage to stand before the Kansas Supreme Court for the tongue lashing they gave his substitute for his inquisition.

Nope, you're still on the wrong side of this issue. Get some book learning done. I recommend biology on your way to "obstetrics". You'll pass through "embryology" and "genetics" en route but I think you'll find that you'll learn something.

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jonas_opines 4 years, 2 months ago

Vertigo, Cait, why bother? That particular partial-truth untruth is constantly put out and answered just as here. They simply don't care. It makes a convenient partisan talking point, and that's it.

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ComradeRedRooster 4 years, 2 months ago

porch_person (Anonymous) says…

I should append this list:

“TomShewmon, barrypenders, and ComradeRedRooster speak out to defend the indefensible” says it all.

ComradeRedRooster, don't you know that the pregnancies that Dr. Tiller terminated were not going to grow up to be “babies” in the first place? They were non-viable.

PP, Kansas law was poorly written, Tiller and Gov. Succubus skirted the law and interpretted it in a way that allowed Tiller to conduct late term elective abortions. He was indicted on 19 charges of late term elective abortions but was aquited because the law was poorly written, not because the unborn babies were unviable.

Recommend you also consider precedent in California and Texas where men were convicted for causing the deaths of unborn children. This explicitly shows that unborn life has a right to exist, to life.

Roeder has had the consequence of incarceration, he knew what he did was against the law. He took responsibility for that act.

Harboring a jew in Nazi Germany was a criminal act. Assisting slaves to escape was a crime in the USA.

By your system of values Oscar Schindler was a criminal, the lowest scum in the world.

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Cait McKnelly 4 years, 2 months ago

Actually, vertigo, those were called "Dixiecrats" and over time many did switch to the Republican party. It's funny how one party can and will invade the other as ideology changes over time. The Bluedogs are moderate Reaganite Republicans in sheep's clothing who jumped ship from the GOP because they can't stomach the "religious right". Many people call them "Republican Lite".

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Roland Gunslinger 4 years, 2 months ago

ComradeRedRooster (Anonymous) says…

Its all from perspective. 50 years ago democrats were against the civil rights movement. 150 years ago demorcrats were against freeing the slaves. Today, democrats are against saving unborn babies. Seeing a pattern here?

Don't let the facts get in the way of your rhetoric. Civil Rights Act votes: The Senate version: Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%) Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)

The Senate version, voted on by the House: Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%) Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)

Hmm... seems the majority of Democrats voted in favor of the Civil Rights Act. But how can they "be against the civil rights movement" when the majority voted in favor of the Act?

You know the southern Democrats of 50 - 150 years ago; the ones who opposed the emancipation of slaves and were against civil rights? If they were around today they would be running under the Republican banner.

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justoneopinion 4 years, 2 months ago

No matter what any one thinks about abortion the Jury sent the right message on this one, Shoot someone and will put you away for life!......PERIOD!!! Finally the justice system works!!

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anon1958 4 years, 2 months ago

barrypenders (Anonymous) says…

anon1958 you're suspect of falling into PAD's 'Modus Operandi', intricate web of Jihad. Whatever the 'Logic' behind their Jihad is. It's not the death of one human, BKT, that is upsetting so many PAD's, it's the “Reason” RKT killed BKT. If it were the loss of one valuable human to the PAD's, they would be beside themselves with anger, that The Poser is favoring the KLM Killers that slaughtered thousands of innocent Americans. But, they are not upset that 'Bent' is, favoring Terrorist Killers by pulling them out of a sanctioned resort like setting, GITMO. Treating them like they deserve American perks, offering them a 50 minute confab for evidence, like the 'Skivie Bomber', and so forth. PAD's instead, support the 'Blessed One's ' Jihad on America and 'Diligence' offered to Terrorists.


Because of these comments, and many others.

There is little doubt that Barrypenders could invoke an insanity defense based on his countless posts that are consistently incoherent and bear no real relevance to the shared tapestry of life that the rest of us refer to as reality.

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Michael Rowland 4 years, 2 months ago

I find it absolutely disgusting that people keep on judging and killing based upon what they think God wants. I doubt anyone can understand what God will say at judgement while still on Earth, and from what I remember of stories in the Bible, anyone who tries to usurp any of His authority is dealt with harshly.

Anyway, let's look at the Commandments. I believe somewhere in there there's a "You shall not kill." If you truly want to follow God's will, then DON'T KILL. He'll deal with people when it's their time to be dealt with, despite what you believe.

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porch_person 4 years, 2 months ago

I should append this list:

"TomShewmon, barrypenders, and ComradeRedRooster speak out to defend the indefensible” says it all.

ComradeRedRooster, don't you know that the pregnancies that Dr. Tiller terminated were not going to grow up to be "babies" in the first place? They were non-viable.

You're not going to do "the movement" any good by remaining ignorant of some unfortunate facts of obstetrics.

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macon47 4 years, 2 months ago

did you ever notice most folks that are so concerned about saving unborn, unwanted babies have no interest in stepping up to the plate and adopting them??

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BrianR 4 years, 2 months ago

JKBagby, True and it's very underreported.

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blackfox 4 years, 2 months ago

This guy is AWESOME! I am surprised it didnt take longer for the jury to decide.

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barrypenders 4 years, 2 months ago

Excellent note ComeradeRedRooster. Concise, Correct, and to the point.

Stimulus, PAD Logic, and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless you

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barrypenders 4 years, 2 months ago

anon1958 you're suspect of falling into PAD's 'Modus Operandi', intricate web of Jihad. Whatever the 'Logic' behind their Jihad is. It's not the death of one human, BKT, that is upsetting so many PAD's, it's the "Reason" RKT killed BKT. If it were the loss of one valuable human to the PAD's, they would be beside themselves with anger, that The Poser is favoring the KLM Killers that slaughtered thousands of innocent Americans. But, they are not upset that 'Bent' is, favoring Terrorist Killers by pulling them out of a sanctioned resort like setting, GITMO. Treating them like they deserve American perks, offering them a 50 minute confab for evidence, like the 'Skivie Bomber', and so forth. PAD's instead, support the 'Blessed One's ' Jihad on America and 'Diligence' offered to Terrorists.

Stimulus, PAD Logic, and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless you

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ComradeRedRooster 4 years, 2 months ago

Its all from perspective. 50 years ago democrats were against the civil rights movement. 150 years ago demorcrats were against freeing the slaves. Today, democrats are against saving unborn babies. Seeing a pattern here?

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macon47 4 years, 2 months ago

too bad Scott Roeders parents were not pro abortion, this would have never happened

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rbwaa 4 years, 2 months ago

Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

"rbwaa, as despicable as Mark Rudy's closing arguments may sound on the surface, I think he's due a bit of compassion; after all, consider what he had to work with." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ there are a lot of other things he could have said without comparing roeder to Martin Luther King and other honorable people. roeder is the lowest of scum and should not have been mentioned in context with them.

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rbwaa 4 years, 2 months ago

Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

"rbwaa, as despicable as Mark Rudy's closing arguments may sound on the surface, I think he's due a bit of compassion; after all, consider what he had to work with." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ there are a lot of other things he could have said without comparing roeder to Martin Luther King and other honorable people. roeder is the lowest of scum and shouldn't have been mentioned in context with them.

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funkdog1 4 years, 2 months ago

Reposting what yankeelady said above, because what she said is absolutely true. These people who get all riled up over 3rd trimester abortions don't seem to really understand what's involved:

yankeelady (Anonymous) says…

We aren't talking gerber babies here folks. 3rd trimester abortions are for catastrophic malformations. If they live more than a few moments they must be cared for, for however long they may live, with no capacity for enjoying or comprehending life. And I can't help but notice most of the rabid anti choice people are also against the government programs and health care reforms that could help the families cope.

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JKBagby 4 years, 2 months ago

it's always better to stay out of these forums. Pro-Choice, Pro- life. Too intense a discussion for me. But this is strictly for cntrygirl who posted about rape "Think about it! It's not THAT common!!!"

"Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes, according to the U.S. Department of Justice"

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anon1958 4 years, 2 months ago

arrypenders (Anonymous) says…

Since PAD's do not want to kill this guy and would rather torture him for killing BKT(Baby Killer Tiller). Maybe PAD's could arrange movie clips of D&C's played for him on the wall of his cell.

Stimulus, Ghosts of BKT, and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless you all


A new low for Barry. The families of victims of the BTK surely would not allow you to trivialize their pain unopposed in the unlikely event you had the courage to say this in public. I am not a fan of corporal punishment but in this case you deserve it. Jeez you are such a colossal jerk you do not even deserve the effort needed to insult you in a colorful or entertaining way.

You just suck Barry, pure and simple. Your gibberish speak is not the least bit entertaining and the filth you spew here is little more than a window into a dark and deeply dysfunctional mind.

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Slowponder 4 years, 2 months ago

37 minutes is not the fastest, though it is quick.

Roeder will be at El Dorado, not Lansing. Lansing is now a medium security prison; El Dorado is the maximum security prison for Kansas.

How would you like to be the Court probation officer that has to draft up the Pre-Sentence Investigation Report for the Court on this one?

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ivalueamerica 4 years, 2 months ago

The bible instructs priests to provide bitter herbs to adulterous women to induce a miscarriage.

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Dan Eyler 4 years, 2 months ago

The wheels of justice are swift in this case. Two murderers crossed paths. One gone to hell and the other going to hell. Justice has been served.

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Linda Endicott 4 years, 2 months ago

At least he won't have to worry about getting pregnant when he gets raped in prison, and not being able to do anything about it because of people with beliefs just like his.

Roeder got what he deserved. He killed a man, and he admitted it.

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Bob Forer 4 years, 2 months ago

Verify,

The common law insanity defense in general terms was allowed when a person suffered a mental disease or defect to the extent that he or she was unable to appreciate the consequences of his/her actions or appreciate the difference between right and wrong. His anti-abortion philsophy certainly showed his ability to know the difference between "right and wrong" and his predmediation demonstrates he knew the consequences of his action. Therefore the insanity defense, if available under current Kansas law, was simply not applicable.

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porch_person 4 years, 2 months ago

I can see now why Shewmon was banned as "rightthinker". If it's "left", it's wrong, whatever Tom thinks "left" is. He's a single reflex arc. Stimulus never hits his brain. It just goes to the spinal cord and reaction goes right back out.

"tom shewmon and barrypenders speak out to defend the indefensible" says it all.

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autie 4 years, 2 months ago

TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…

Tiller is dead.

Roeder is being housed and fed three squares, probably will have a job, exercise, write, read, do interviews, relax, visit with other inmates, reflect, sleep, think, breathe, repent, pray etc etc.

American justice, right, lefties?

You bet, Tom. With Bubba as a room mate; going to the shower every morning. One of those levels of hell I reckon. Could you please hand me the soap?

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weeslicket 4 years, 2 months ago

tom shewmon and barrypenders speak out to defend the indefensible. nicley done.

(yertle. turtle. bless

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barrypenders 4 years, 2 months ago

Survival of the fittest worked for BKT until he met RKT.

Stimulus, RKT, and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless you

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Agnostick 4 years, 2 months ago

"What's it like in the big house, Mickey?"

"It's not so bad. You get to lift weights, watch TV, write up appeals... take long showers, lift weights. You get used to it."

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7texdude 4 years, 2 months ago

Roeder went into a church and shot and killed a man because of his beliefs. He is guilty. He deserves the death penalty. If an atheist walked into a church and shot a preacher, would he get life in prison as well?

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 2 months ago

Barry, Darwin would be rolling over in his grave if he could see the evolutionary trajectory of the far-left. Most certainly, not what he would have predicted.

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barrypenders 4 years, 2 months ago

Since PAD's do not want to kill this guy and would rather torture him for killing BKT(Baby Killer Tiller). Maybe PAD's could arrange movie clips of D&C's played for him on the wall of his cell.

Stimulus, Ghosts of BKT, and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless you all

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 2 months ago

Tiller is dead.

Roeder is being housed and fed three squares, probably will have a job, exercise, write, read, do interviews, relax, visit with other inmates, reflect, sleep, think, breathe, repent, pray etc etc.

American justice, right, lefties?

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 2 months ago

In full view tonight and as previously shown, no matter what the poli-socio thread may be and as Obama/Pelosi/Reid rush toward the bottom, the more shrill, combative, angry, paranoid and shrill the left becomes.

I am enjoying the show.

Will the KSM/NYC trial debacle be where the tide of deep infatuation with Obama by the lamestream media finally turns? Or will they keep making excuses, or 'forget' to report--like Scott Brown's stunning numbers were conveniently left out of the Boston Globes paper three days before the election? Progressives have enough excuses to stretch to the moon. We see Obama employing Alinsky's tactics by pushing back on resistant Americans during the SOTU speech. It's all got you far-left zealots in a twirl. Get on some meds, or at least some herbal remedies.

beo B., when did I admit to being "I can't take it anymore"?

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beobachter 4 years, 2 months ago

Glad mine didn't. Too bad some others didn't, Especially since some posters posting here are showing how brain damaged they are

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storm 4 years, 2 months ago

"Aren't you superstars glad your mom didn't pay a visit to Tiller?" by Shewmon Well, Shewmon, most former fetuses have absolutely no memories of being a zygote then a fetus. So if our mothers and your mom had paid a visit to a fine physician like Dr. Tiller, it would've been their choice.

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beobachter 4 years, 2 months ago

Tom, previously known as right_thinker and to those of around on the previous forum have always known him for what he is. How is it libel when you accurately describe what he is and what he has admitted to being?

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JustNoticed 4 years, 2 months ago

Hey Shewmon, too bad your mother didn't pay a visit to Dr. Tiller.

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ComradeRedRooster 4 years, 2 months ago

Roeder is guilty, how many lives did he save? In 20 years I wonder if the children he saved will appreciate what he did for them?

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Boston_Corbett 4 years, 2 months ago

"I go by my real name and you are lying,ie, making libelous statements about me. Would you like to be embroiled in a lawsuit?"


Threaten some more lawsuits, Tom. You sound more and more like Mario every day.

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sfjayhawk 4 years, 2 months ago

This guy will make a great prison bride! Good riddance dbag Roeder!

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Newell_Post 4 years, 2 months ago

Roeder is a moron (perhaps literally) who was manipulated by a bunch of shipboard lawyers into doing their dirty work that they didn't have the balls to do themselves. They might just as well have run an ad in the newspaper reading: "Help Wanted, Murderer."

Congratulations, Roeder. You are the patsy for a bunch that is more devious than yourself. In the corporate world that's called "being the vice president in charge of going to jail." Enjoy your time in Lansing and don't drop the soap.

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tomatogrower 4 years, 2 months ago

Roeder couldn't keep a job, often living off handouts, he couldn't get along with his wife, he couldn't pay child support. On the other hand Tiller was a family man, who is missed by his wife, children and grandchildren. On the Sunday of his death, he was serving in his church. Tiller was a hard working professional who saved the lives of many women whose pregnancies had gone horribly wrong. He was never found to be in violation of anything, but a procedure error. Roeder was a deadbeat. You know, the kind that all you conservatives like to put down. He probably didn't have insurance to get mental health, and needed it. He didn't go to school to better his life. He could only make himself famous by killing someone. He now has a long term job, with health care all at the government's expense.

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macon47 4 years, 2 months ago

drugs are good bush was bad abortion is murder drugs are good sos

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Christine Anderson 4 years, 2 months ago

Here's what I think. I think abortion is murder. I also think what Roeder did was murder. Our laws do not permit a murder to prevent another murderer from commiting additional murders. So, appropriate verdict to be sure. Tiller dead? (yawn...) Back to "I Love Lucy."

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MyName 4 years, 2 months ago

Tiller was a dirtbag who didn't deserve to die. This guy took a life and deserves worse than he got.

Who are you, or anyone on this board to decide when one life is worth more than another?

And I sincerely don't understand the hate towards Tiller. He's helped some women who were in trouble and could have died if their pregnancy wasn't stopped. But you all continue to focus on the women who may or may not have legitimate reasons (in your self-righteous views) to have an abortion at that point.

Even if every one of his patients was a poser, his death doesn't change the fact that abortion is legal. He's just one man, if you want to stop abortion in this country you need to focus on a way to make it easier for women in trouble to bring a pregnancy to term.

It's easy for you all to pick on one guy, but the reality is that if there no women who wanted (or needed) the procedure he would have been doing something else instead. Talk about straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.

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macon47 4 years, 2 months ago

if Roeder is such a brave hero who stood up for what he believed then why didn't he just wait for the cops after he shot Tiller. he should have just dropped the gun in the house of god and prayed for forgiveness if he was so darn religious

another gutless wonder , just trying to run other peoples lives per his beliefs

i dare any of you anti abortion folks to step up to the plate and adopt the unwanted child and save it from abortion

i am waitng, where are you ,???

i am still waiting,

i guess your beliefs may not be strong enough to accept the responsibility the mother is not willing or able to accept ??

you just think everyone else should conform to your line of thinking

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jjt 4 years, 2 months ago

I do wish the anti folk would actually address things like, the fetus has died at seven months, should the mum be forced to carry a dead baby, what should happen when a 13 year old is raped, or the baby may be technically alive but has no head and is thus unable sustain itself. Abortion as birth control is one thing but before one spouts forth would the anti folk specifically address the few but very real issues above.

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cntrygrl 4 years, 2 months ago

Should Roeder have killed Tiller? Absolutely not.

But, should Tiller have been allowed to murder innocent children simply because a woman can't keep her pants on? Again, absolutely not.

I understand the arguments about abortions that are done because of pregnancies resulting from rape or incest, etc. But, you are absolutely crazy to think that those types of abortions are done that often. Think about it! It's not THAT common!!!

Abortions should not be used for birth control. Period. End of story.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 2 months ago

WOW! Lotta red above. Lotta comments about me. Looks like porch person is correct, in that my sole purpose is to draw 'traffic' to LJW on-line.

Still, I give the biggest buffoon award to Agnostick. Agno beats this drum that I was "I cant take it anymore" and sent threatening PM's. If you're going to be uber paraoid Ag, at least be good at it. I've told you, and I've told Mr. Kealing via the telephone and email, that was not me. I don't appreciate being libelled Agnostick. I go by my real name and you are lying,ie, making libelous statements about me. Would you like to be embroiled in a lawsuit? I can lawyer up longer than you, I can assure you. I respectfully ask that you do not state that again. You are a weasel who hides his identity. I asked Mr. Kealing if he could trace it, prove you wrong Ag, and my best hope, to boot you. Then maybe you could be forced to go back to causing trouble at TCJ, and not LJW. But I doubt you're welcome there, are you?

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Chris Bohling 4 years, 2 months ago

To anyone arguing in Roeder's defense:

Slavery is clearly wrong. That does not mean that John Brown was not a terrorist and murderer.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 2 months ago

"Logorrhea: pathologically excessive and often incoherent talkativeness or wordiness that is characteristic especially of the manic phase of bipolar disorder." -Kropotkin

Yeah, we saw this for 1 hour and 9 minutes last Wednesday night.

"egotism: 1. The tendency to speak or write of oneself excessively and boastfully. 2. An inflated sense of one's own importance; conceit." -Kropotkin

Yeah, that too.

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barrypenders 4 years, 2 months ago

The killer of BKT should have had the 'Light skinned' Poser handle his trial. At this point he wouldn't have been charged yet or a spot to be tried.

Stimulus, PAD Law, and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless us all

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jonas_opines 4 years, 2 months ago

ComradeRedRooster (Anonymous) says… "Roeder took responsibility for his actions."

He pled guilty?

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skinny 4 years, 2 months ago

All I can say is what a bunch of religious wackos!!

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puppyfeathers 4 years, 2 months ago

Why is it that soooo many "pro-lifers", christians, fundamentalists, right wingers, ect., ect., get so bent out of shape over the abortion issue? For craps sake, can this kind of energy be directed to the kids that are here now in the form of better public school funding, real and affordable health care access, or even basic daily comforts like a healthy meal? It's as if they don't care about them as soon as they're born... just as long as everyone gets born. Isn't 6 BILLION (and rapidly counting) "miracles" enough? Go ask China how they feel about over population.

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macon47 4 years, 2 months ago

if Roeder is such a brave hero who stood up for what he believed then why didn't he just wait for the cops after he shot Tiller. Why did he try to hide his crime and the gun? another gutless wonder , just trying to run other peoples lives per his beliefs

i dare any anti abortion jerk to step up to the plate and adopt the unwanted child and save it from abortion

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ComradeRedRooster 4 years, 2 months ago

Roeder took responsibility for his actions.

He's guilty, let's pardon him. A majority of Kansans are pro-life, most didn't like Tiller. Roeder was wrong, but its time to pardon him.

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Starlight 4 years, 2 months ago

He might have done better with the Wookie defense;)

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Agnostick 4 years, 2 months ago

rbwaa, as despicable as Mark Rudy's closing arguments may sound on the surface, I think he's due a bit of compassion; after all, consider what he had to work with.

He was basically stuck with a cold-blooded murderer who admitted to premeditating and fantasizing about the kill... planning meticulously for the kill... and then admitting to the crime, more than once.

Rudy would've had better luck trying to reconstruct the Golden Gate Bridge with baling wire and a few pieces chewing gum.

I'll bet his email and "snail mail" will be overflowing with compassionate messages from his fellow attorneys.

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Agnostick 4 years, 2 months ago

Kropotkin (Anonymous) says…

"I note that Tom Shewmon has posted about 6700 times in the 22 months that he's been leaving feedback on the LJW site. That's about once every two and a half hours, day and night."


Kropotkin, that's not entirely accurate...

The previous account/username was "right_thinker"... and was from maybe January or February of '08, back to early '06. As I recall, when that plug was pulled, "right_thinker" had racked up @ 12,000 posts. (The real number may have been closer to 15,000, but I'm taking the "conservative" estimate on that one)

There were probably one or two other anonymous accounts between those two biggles, each one not amounting to much. One of them, "I_cant_take_it_anymore" was around just long enough to send me a couple of threatening PMs.

So, I think more accurate calculations could be had if you figured 18,000 posts over 48, 49 months.

Try plugging that into your formula...

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jesusturds 4 years, 2 months ago

its despicable anyone would compared that murderer to a great man like MLK. Hopefully Roeder rots in jail for the rest of his pathetic life

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rbwaa 4 years, 2 months ago

what's wrong with calling someone a 'botched abortion'?

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Gareth 4 years, 2 months ago

Why didn't he plead guilty and "own" what he surely thought was the right thing to do?

Easy answer, mr_right_wing: Roeder, like pretty much all of the American Taliban Christian fundamentalist throwbacks, is a coward at heart.

They live in fear, 100% percent of the time. That's why it's more comfortable for them to believe in the Invisible Sky Pixie than to face the world as it is.

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rbwaa 4 years, 2 months ago

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mr_right_wing 4 years, 2 months ago

I find infanticide deplorable, but the jury came to the right decision on this one.

I still wonder; if Roeder really believed in what he was doing...why not just plead guilty? Take 'ownership' or at least responsibility for what you've done. You've killed a man for something that is legal (albeit completely void of a shred of humanity or morals) so there is a price to pay.

Nobody (but yourself) made you judge, jury and executioner.

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Frank Smith 4 years, 2 months ago

I note that Tom Shewmon has posted about 6700 times in the 22 months that he's been leaving feedback on the LJW site. That's about once every two and a half hours, day and night.

What exactly do you think would cause someone to live out their lives on feedback pages? What do you think of a person who has to express a somewhat bizzare opinion on virtually anything vaguely political?

Here's food for thought:

Logorrhea: pathologically excessive and often incoherent talkativeness or wordiness that is characteristic especially of the manic phase of bipolar disorder.

egotism: 1. The tendency to speak or write of oneself excessively and boastfully. 2. An inflated sense of one's own importance; conceit.

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rbwaa 4 years, 2 months ago

‘Defense attorney Mark Rudy described his case as helpless and hopeless.’ ‘During closing arguments earlier Friday, Rudy urged the jury to reject the murder charge, saying, "no one should be convicted based on his convictions." Rudy mentioned leaders who stood up for their beliefs, including Martin Luther King Jr. They were "celebrated individuals (who) stood up and made the world a better place." "They leave their marks based on their words and deeds," Rudy said.’ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ mark rudy is despicable for comparing roeder to Martin Luther King and other leaders ....roeder left his fkg mark but he certainly did not make the world a better place...

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macon47 4 years, 2 months ago

i can think of many parents today thinking that a visit to tiller might have been better that the derilict they have living in thier basement

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BruceWayne 4 years, 2 months ago

Roeder was the fire....Kline was the fuel. He is just as guilty.

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ComradeRedRooster 4 years, 2 months ago

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BrianR 4 years, 2 months ago

"Aren't you superstars glad your mom didn't pay a visit to Tiller?"

What if she did? When my mom was pregnant with me, George Tiller was 13 years old.

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leftlawrenceafter30years 4 years, 2 months ago

When men can have babies then they can make decisions regarding pregnancies. Oh, wait, men are doing that now. I have never had an abortion. I have four children. I know that it can sometimes take until the third trimester before problems can show up. Abortion should be between a doctor and his patient especially since it is legal. I would also like to see the anti-abortion crowd care for the kids once they are born. It seems to me that they only are concerned as long as they are unborn. Where's the love for the kids who are going hungry, are homeless or are being abused? I think priorities are way out of sync with the real problems going on in our country. Judge not lest ye be judged.

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Frank Smith 4 years, 2 months ago

The anti-choice crazies were actually loving the trial. One nutcase from Texas was obviously rapturous when she saw photographs of Tiller's body at the church screened.

During Roeder's cross examination he described the assassination and his threats to kill others, as coldly as if he were describing ordering a pizza. All that time Tiller's widow and children looked on in horror, writhing in agony.

I'm sure that the Christian Taliban zealots at Operation Rescue, the Army of "God," Operation Save America, the Westboro Baptist Church, Kansans for Life and Tom Shewmon, etc., will be proudly celebrating their newest "martyr."

Roeder takes his place amongst their august pantheon of clinic bombers, arsonists and assassins of obstetricians, receptionists, policemen, nurses, ageing escorts, etc.: Paul Hill, Eric Rudolph, James Salvi, Shelly Shannon, Cheryl Sullenger, James Kopp, Michael Griffin, Matt Goldsby, Jimmy and Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins, David McMenarmy, Patricia Hughes, Jeremy Dunahoe, Chad Altman, Matthew Derosia and Sergio Baca.

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Amy Heeter 4 years, 2 months ago

TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…

Yeah, but guess what? Tiller is still dead and unable to kill more future humans. Aren't you superstars glad your mom didn't pay a visit to Tiller?

For Sure

I don't know why there pro choicers are so excited Roeder never denied killling Tiller and he knew the risk vs the result. He made a choice.

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Robert Rauktis 4 years, 2 months ago

I hope Bubba is especially horny and in need of a new cell mate.

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lawrencechick 4 years, 2 months ago

I'm glad the system worked as no one deserves to die like that, but I'm also glad the clinic is gone for the same reason.

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mom_of_three 4 years, 2 months ago

abortion may be wrong in the eyes of many, but its the right of women to do with their bodies as they see fit. It's much different than rape, murder or robbery, when a person takes something from another person against their will.

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brujablanco 4 years, 2 months ago

Awwwww, what's the matter artismarti - your hero didn't get the conviction you so wanted him to? I am sure you will carry on in his honor.

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Agnostick 4 years, 2 months ago

Plurilingual,

Veeerrrryyyyy interesting...

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justanothertroll 4 years, 2 months ago

oh he deserves to be in prison don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to walk the streets with him either, however, kill mother teresa he did not.

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beawolf 4 years, 2 months ago

tom,

You lose more credibility with each and every post (not that you had much to begin with). It's absolutely amazing how stunted tour mind is.

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Plurilingual 4 years, 2 months ago

I wonder...

If the missing murder weapon is found by some young children, which directly leads to their deaths, couldn't Mr. Roeder be charged with involuntary manslaughter or the like? I wonder if he would plead not guilty to those charges as well.

The authorities should really try to find that gun, even if it means cutting some deals.

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BrianR 4 years, 2 months ago

What makes [any wacko zealot] different from the Taliban other than what book he reads?

No difference.

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frankenstien 4 years, 2 months ago

TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…

Yeah, but guess what? Tiller is still dead and unable to kill more future humans. Aren't you superstars glad your mom didn't pay a visit to Tiller?

Starting to think that maybe your mom should have.

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Paul R Getto 4 years, 2 months ago

"So you're saying that we should make things legal on the basis that people will do them anyway, without regard for their effect on others?” === Sounds like government policy on tobacco and alcohol to me. Once the judge shut down his rants, the defendant was finished. I hope he lives a long time in jail thinking about this.

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macon47 4 years, 2 months ago

good thing the trial wasnt in lawerence we would still be having midnite vigils for roeder, and the jury would argue untill july, they even if they found him guilty all he would get was a weekend in jail

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RonBurgandy 4 years, 2 months ago

Good. But obviously what was going to happen. What a d-bag.

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diplomacy205 4 years, 2 months ago

JImo, Brownback will never pardon Roeder. Unfortunately certain jihadists are under the delusion that their actions are on par with the early Christians who were imprisoned for their beliefs. I believe that Brownback will see Roeder as a martyr to the cause.

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Amy Heeter 4 years, 2 months ago

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Jimo 4 years, 2 months ago

Kansans can reverse this guilty verdict by voting in Governor Brownback, who will pardon Roeder.

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imastinker 4 years, 2 months ago

Tiller was a dirtbag who didn't deserve to die. This guy took a life and deserves worse than he got.

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balishag 4 years, 2 months ago

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gogoplata 4 years, 2 months ago

One murderer killing another. He's guilty and so was Tiller.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 4 years, 2 months ago

Ok, next step, find and secure that weapon.

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MyName 4 years, 2 months ago

lol was that exactly the way you put it justanothertroll?

And to be honest, I think Roeder would have disgusted me less if he had just owned up an pleaded guilty. Trying to weasel out of deserved punishment only adds disgust to the contempt you already feel towards someone who murders in cold blood like that.

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justanothertroll 4 years, 2 months ago

all I said was roeder gave up his freedom to save little babies, jeesh.

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coolmarv 4 years, 2 months ago

And for a close second 'most stupid' post.

Defixione (Anonymous) says…

“Aren't you superstars glad your mom didn't pay a visit to Tiller?”

My nomination for stupidest. post. ever.

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puddleglum 4 years, 2 months ago

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puddleglum 4 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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MyName 4 years, 2 months ago

Tom Shewman didn't get to help run a country slightly smaller than Texas.

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beobachter 4 years, 2 months ago

30 minutes to select jury foreman, 2 minutes to take vote, 5 minutes to fill out form, Sounds good to me.

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ivalueamerica 4 years, 2 months ago

Please someone, explain to me...Tom Shewman is glad the guy killed Tiller.

What makes Tom Shewman different from the Taliban other than what book he reads?

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Kirk Larson 4 years, 2 months ago

Freedom of Choice.

It's the American Way!

Otherwise, move to Iran.

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Agnostick 4 years, 2 months ago

ebyrdstarr, I wasn't aware that Kansas had no insanity please. Thanks for the info.

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Cait McKnelly 4 years, 2 months ago

Oh geez, MyName, you opened a door for every rant on the propaganda Operation Rescue pushes there is. To their mind NOBODY gets a third trimester abortion for medical necessity. It's about missing a football game or going to the roller rink. These twits think women are the shallowest things on the face of the planet. Yeah, right. And Sherri Finkbine was all a figment of our imaginations.

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guesswho 4 years, 2 months ago

Abortion may not be a good choice, but it is worse to have no choice at all.

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Agnostick 4 years, 2 months ago

verity, from my armchair Perry Mason, "Law and Order: Criminal SUV Miami" cesspool of knowledge...

Seems to me that if the defense had chosen that route, Roeder would first have to be certified by, what... 6, 7 different psychologists and/or psychiatrists? Okay, probably not that many, but I think at least two (one chosen by the defense, one chosen by the prosecution).

The way Roeder described everything in his testimony... his obsessive knowledge about the minute details of abortion procedures, his fantasies about how, when, and where he could kill Tiller... I don't think he would've passed the test for insanity. He knew exactly what he was doing.

Who knows... [exhale]

Maybe he should've been committed... before he committed...

[put on sunglasses]

murder.

[cue scream from Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again]

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Mariposa 4 years, 2 months ago

Mom, they are saying that if abortion was illegal people would still do it, so you might as well make it legal. Obviously, men are going to commit rape regardless of what the law says. Might as well repeal that one, right? If men could have sex whenever they wanted, and have absolute power, would rape disappear? Or at least the current definition of it. Dealing with the human body and mind and soul is extremely complex and worrying.

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ebyrdstarr 4 years, 2 months ago

Verity, the state of Kansas doesn't have an insanity plea. There is a defense for mental disease, but basically, he would have had to think he was injecting vodka into a watermelon for that to work. As long as he intended to kill Dr. Tiller, it wouldn't matter if Roeder was completely crazy or delusional.

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jackpot 4 years, 2 months ago

The jury took 34 mins to sign the form 3 more to tell the judge. The jury form was read into the record and was signed at 10:34.

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Agnostick 4 years, 2 months ago

Even if Roeder was eligible for the death penalty, I would not want him to be "martyred."

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verity 4 years, 2 months ago

For the legal experts---what are the chances that a plea of insanity would have worked?

Or could the lawyers not use that unless Roeder agreed to it?

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MyName 4 years, 2 months ago

No, rollcar, this logic doesn't apply to the things you listed. But we have done legalization for things like, prohibition, pornography, gambling, pretty much all of the blue laws and many other small morality issues.

You can try and equate abortion to murder if you want, but the reality is that there are many times, especially with late term abortions, where it is a medically necessity. That is why the only time such abortions are legal is if there is such a necessity. Is it illegal (or even immoral) to save the life of the mother even if it means losing the pregnancy?

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deathpenaltyliberal 4 years, 2 months ago

It makes me sick that we will be stuck with supporting Roeder for life. Talk about a welfare state. Wow!

What's the use of a death penalty if we're not going to use it?.

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deathpenaltyliberal 4 years, 2 months ago

"trollcar (Anonymous) says… So you're saying that we should make things legal on the basis that people will do them anyway, without regard for their effect on others?"

Stupid straw man argument, but thanks for the insight into pro-life "logic".

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ebyrdstarr 4 years, 2 months ago

Snoozey, our capital murder statute is much more specific than just premeditated murder. It has to be a premeditated murder, but then it also has to fit one of 7 aggravating scenarios. This case just doesn't fit.

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deathpenaltyliberal 4 years, 2 months ago

"TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says… Yeah, but guess what? Tiller is still dead and unable to kill more future humans."

In the race to the depths of hate and hypocrisy, the winner is justanothertroll, closely followed by TS.

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snoozey 4 years, 2 months ago

Why is he not eligible for the death penalty? I thought that being found guilty of premeditated murder made that a possibility.

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willie_wildcat 4 years, 2 months ago

Wow....It didn't take long for the anti-choice nuts to crawl out from under their rocks now did it? I was ecstatic that Roeder was found guilty. Period. Murder is murder now matter how much a delusional psychopath tries to sugar coat it.

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mom_of_three 4 years, 2 months ago

what you talking about rollcar?

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rollcar 4 years, 2 months ago

So you're saying that we should make things legal on the basis that people will do them anyway, without regard for their effect on others? Does this apply to murder? Rape? Drinking and driving?

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yankeelady 4 years, 2 months ago

We aren't talking gerber babies here folks. 3rd trimester abortions are for catastrophic malformations. If they live more than a few moments they must be cared for, for however long they may live, with no capacity for enjoying or comprehending life. And I can't help but notice most of the rabid anti choice people are also against the government programs and health care reforms that could help the families cope.

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jaywalker 4 years, 2 months ago

Wow. That was fast. Not just the verdict, the whole trial. Speedy.

Good deal. He should never be released.

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puppyfeathers 4 years, 2 months ago

I wonder if this self righteous psychopath will think he is some kind of martyr when he gets shivved in jail. He's obviously not stupid. His plan of attack/murder was long thought out and fulfilled. My curiosity is if Roeder sees himself as some sort of divine messenger from god. What kind of voices, reasoning or abject plane of reality does he think that god believes that his acts were a good idea? Doesn't this guy harbor a STRONG belief in Christianity? Perhaps that was the problem in the first place.

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balishag 4 years, 2 months ago

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 2 months ago

Next up for a ride on old Sparky!

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Defixione 4 years, 2 months ago

"Aren't you superstars glad your mom didn't pay a visit to Tiller?"

My nomination for stupidest. post. ever.

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mom_of_three 4 years, 2 months ago

Tom - if a woman feels that abortion is her only choice, she is going to find another way, (if not tiller or an abortion clinic) and it could take her own life. But of course, it seems some anti-abortion advocates don't care about the mothers life or anyone elses.

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Agnostick 4 years, 2 months ago

right_thinker, there are other abortion providers. Do you fantasize about going to shoot them, too?

Of course, a more logical approach would be to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies that lead to abortion. Like any other business, abortion providers would have to close their doors, due to a lack of customers coming through the door.

Oh wait, that's logical. You don't do logic. Hell, as you proved last night, you can barely read.

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Newell_Post 4 years, 2 months ago

Welcome to Lansing, Roeder. I hope you live a long life in there.

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brujablanco 4 years, 2 months ago

Artichoke, oh artichoke? Where are you???????????

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, but guess what? Tiller is still dead and unable to kill more future humans. Aren't you superstars glad your mom didn't pay a visit to Tiller?

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mom_of_three 4 years, 2 months ago

Justanothertroll - you salute him, a noble deed? He took a life, which is what you are against.....

sad, very sad...

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Agnostick 4 years, 2 months ago

37 minutes... probably 35 of those minutes were spent filling out paperwork and refreshing coffee mugs.

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BABBOY 4 years, 2 months ago

Hey, the jury got one right.

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cowboy 4 years, 2 months ago

that has to be a judicial record , 37 minutes

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justanothertroll 4 years, 2 months ago

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ltown2500 4 years, 2 months ago

wow...that wasnt a surprise...and the sad thing is some ppl will look at this man as a hero and hes just a cold blooded killer...i mean how can u kill a man at church? i understand he didnt agree with dr tillers occupation but damn u cant kill a man because of his job...i dnt like how rude ppl are at mcdonalds but i didnt walk up to them and shoot them...people need to learn violence isnt always the answer...

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jonas_opines 4 years, 2 months ago

Good, nice to see the system working independent of rhetoric.

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Mariposa 4 years, 2 months ago

Roeder is a rock. I do believe that he perceives himself as a noble and holy martyr for his beliefs and actions. The truly horrifying thing about all of this is that there is absolutely nothing that can be done to change this kind of attitude and subsequent behavior.

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ebyrdstarr 4 years, 2 months ago

Cait, sentencing will be March 9.

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fabian_zimbabwe 4 years, 2 months ago

A no-brainer. Hope this certifiable nutjob rots in jail.

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Cait McKnelly 4 years, 2 months ago

Wow. 37 minutes. That didn't take long. Wonder when sentencing will be?

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Clint Gentry 4 years, 2 months ago

Pro-Life?...U r doing it wrong...

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ebyrdstarr 4 years, 2 months ago

Seeing as how the jury already has a verdict, I would say so, Ag.

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