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Archive for Tuesday, January 5, 2010

‘We are jihadists,’ not terrorists, suspects say

January 5, 2010

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— Five northern Virginia men arrested in Pakistan indicated Monday that they plan to fight terrorism charges that Pakistani police are recommending by using a strategy seen in U.S. courtrooms: that they were preparing for jihad but not planning any terror attacks.

The men told a Pakistani court that they had neither sought nor established contact with extremist groups, and traveled to the region only “to help the helpless Muslims,” according to their Pakistani attorney. As they entered the courtroom, one of the men, Ramy Zamzam, told reporters: “We are not terrorists. We are jihadists, and jihad is not terrorism.”

No charges were filed during the hearing in Sargodha, but Pakistani police said their formal recommendation that the men be charged under anti-terrorism laws — and sentenced to life in prison — would be filed by today.

Comments

grammaddy 5 years ago

That's true. Americans have twisted most language beyond recognition. "Jihad" actually means struggle. Of course the "politics of fear " has twisted that all around to make us afraid of anything that has to do with that area of the world.

SettingTheRecordStraight 5 years ago

grammady,

I'm not an Islam expert, but a more common definition of "jihad" is holy war - as in a war by the Muslim faithful against American infidels.

In the case of the five men from northern Virginia, their strategy is to convince a court that their plan was "jihad-lite." The Pakistanis should should be very suspicious of that argument.

anon1958 5 years ago

Well they could have joined one of many human rights organizations or other NGO's that are trying to help impoverished Muslims in dozens of countries if their intentions were truly noble.

Regardless of what they have or have not done they are certainly idiots and most likely dumber than Ma and Pa Heene of balloon boy infamy.

cowboy 5 years ago

Use a jihadist brand bullet rather than a terrorist bullet to put a cap in their A$$

Satirical 5 years ago

I totally believe these five men. I mean, since when does merely teaching fellow jihadists bomb making skills and encouraging attacks on innocent civilians qualify one as a "terrorist?" Since when does providing aid, and support for other terrorist qualify you as a terrorist? Clearly these guys are jihadists and not terrorists.

I think they got their argument from Obama who sincerely believes that if you slap a different label on a can of green beans you can turn it into corn. Believing that relabeling our war against terror will alter the perception of single terrorist is naive, but on the bright side, it may get Obama another oh-so-coveted Nobel Peace Prize. Hoorah for distinctions without differences! Three cheers for form over substance!

Keep leading the way Obama! Your rhetoric isn’t keeping anyone safe, but at least it is scoring you political points and making believers out of naïve liberals. But that is all that is really important…right?

leedavid 5 years ago

This is the best discussion of "Jihad" I have ever seen.

Source: http://www.kashmirherald.com/featuredarticle/whatisjihad.html

Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan of Islamic University, Medina Al- Munawwara, Saudi Arabia, the translator of Sahih Al-Bukhari, in the glossary of Arabic words translates Jihad as “Holy fighting in the cause of Allah or any other kind of effort to make Allah’s word (Islam) superior which is regarded as one of the principles of Islam.” 8

Dictionary of Islam defines jihad as “a religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Quran and in the Traditions as a divine institution, enjoined specially for the purpose advancing Islam and repelling evils from Muslims.”1

Hard to twist that into "struggle" Grammaddy

Flap Doodle 5 years ago

"toe-MAY-toe", "toe-MAH-toe". Whatever. Take 'em out back & shoot 'em.

leedavid 5 years ago

Porch...sounds great....now how do we get the radical Muslims on board? I love the thought, but they claim to be at war with us since the 90's and they are doing a heck of a job. So far, talking hasn't produced a lot of results for the U.S.. Some in the middle east, but not a lot of results there either. War doesn't work, unless we did the old approach and just wiped them off the planet, took their possessions, women and children. That is not our style, despite what some "Avatar" viewers may say. LOL!

It's a mess.

MyName 5 years ago

@leedavid:

Oh sure, how about "crusade". It can mean "a war instigated by the Church for alleged religious ends" (so a holy war), or "an organized campaign concerning a political, social, or religious issue, typically motivated by a fervent desire for change".

But clearly there must be a conspiracy to hide the true meaning of "crusade" here.

Flap Doodle 5 years ago

Has anyone mentioned on this thread that a sizable percentage of the victims of radical Islam are other Muslims who don't agree that Satan will make meatballs from your buttocks if you allow women to wear trousers?

MaryKatesPillStash 5 years ago

"The list of things that the Bible has “gotten wrong” in those 1800 years is lengthy. The list of things the Koran has gotten wrong is lengthy. The Koran's description of jihad sounds like a speech by Jim Jones. The Book of Revelation sounds like florid psychosis or a bad acid trip."

Thank you, porch_person. This is almost exactly how I see things.

jimmyjms 5 years ago

No different than Pete Hoekstra calling himself a "patriot" instead of a "traitor."

Shane Garrett 5 years ago

We never gave these rights to Nazi saboteurs captured during World War II; after extracting what useful information they possessed, President Franklin Roosevelt ordered that they be tried by a military tribunal, and they were subsequently sent to the electric chair. It's difficult to see why today's enemy combatants are not treated the same way.

puddleglum 5 years ago

Thing (Anonymous) says…

Warriors do not blow up aircraft that are full of non-combatants, terrorists do. Warriors do not set intentionally set off bombs is market places, targeting only civilians, terrorists do

yeah, that's the way we see it, but since their enemy is basically everyone but themselves (combatants and non-combatants alike) they see fit to blow up whatever they can.

the solution? only a 'final' one.

lets use up these nukes we got sitting around...they were all paid for years ago, so the cost is minimal. lay waste to yee middle east. two words- glass factory

everybody wins.

Shane Garrett 5 years ago

Book 001, Number 0031: It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that he heard the Messenger of Allah say: I have been commanded to fight against people, till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the messenger (from the Lord) and in all that I have brought. And when they do it, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the light, no man shall enter the kindom of heaven except through me.

He did not say kill everyone whom does not believe in me.

Sean Livingstone 5 years ago

Looks like these folks use words just like the right wing Republicans.... or the left wing Democrats. We're Jihad, not terrorism. Oh, Obama is a communist and socialist, and a Nazi (well, Nazism is always associated with the right and not left). And extreme left kept saying the right wings are earth destroyer... takes more than one hand to clap dear. Islamic terrorism on the United State didn't begin because the so-called, "they hate our lifestyle". Even Osama has already told the US.... "you live your life, and stop bothering with us". Well, we kept wanting to bother how they live their lives, so they keep on teaching us "lessons". I'm no left wing nut, but it's easy to understand why they feel this way. Maybe the Russians try to teach us how we should live our lives, maybe, some of the right wing nuts may go into Russia to start killing them.

Show they good example, and they will follow....

MyName 5 years ago

Okay, I'm confused. Are these Americans arrested in Pakistan, or what? "Five northern Virginia men arrested in Pakistan". Sounds like all of the hot air in this thread is from people who didn't RTFA.

jimmyjms 5 years ago

I don't care what side of the aisle you saddle up on, "Buck O'Fama" is freaking hilarious.

Liberty275 5 years ago

"What rules for managing large numbers of humans, societies, would be more appropriate for you pp?"

How about communism? Just kill everyone that isn't on board with the dictators socialist plan. That always makes for a leftwing nirvana. Well, except for having to bury all the independent thinkers before they stink up the place.

Shane Garrett 5 years ago

Why do we not hear from some one of the Islamic faith? What is their view point.
The 10 georgia stone rules are okay.
But what do you do when others don't follow those rules?

Shane Garrett 5 years ago

I guess I could just go ask my Muslim friend across the hall. Of course, he has stated in the past that most of these people cannot read and the preaching are corrupt. Much like all radical clerics. That Most of these un-educated muslims then follow like sheep. He says they will recite a few correct words form the Koran and then the rest is he has never heard of before.

So, like I asked before. What is ones response to those who would do us harm? People will think you are a right wing nut if you want to defend your home land and go to war against Jahidist. People think you are a weak limp wristed liberal if you do nothing.

Shane Garrett 5 years ago

AgnosticK A few arrest and the group disbanded. Can we say the same for jihadists?

Kirk Larson 5 years ago

Wallythewalrus (Anonymous) says… He did not say kill everyone whom does not believe in me.

No, but a few Popes and Inquisitors did.

Kirk Larson 5 years ago

Tom Shrewman, You bring up Dorgan who said in response to the repeal of Glass- Steagal,"I think we will look back in 10 years’ time and say we should not have done this but we did because we forgot the lessons of the past, and that that which is true in the 1930’s is true in 2010." He sure called that one!

Liberty275 5 years ago

"Which, when you think about it, “Liberty”275, isn't all that different from the Old Testament, is it?"

I don't know. I've been an atheist since I was about 10, which means I've been an atheist about 35 years. Religious stuff doesn't really interest me. If you say communism isn't all that different than a book of fairy tales, I'm thinking you might be onto something, notwithstanding the imperfect meshing of the metaphor.

Liberty275 5 years ago

"good little troll and jumping right into bed with Godwin… well, it's perplexing"

It shouldn't be perplexing. Its really quite simple. The socialist political party that invokes godwin's law were mere amateurs compared to a single communist dictator, mr stalin. But then you have lots of other communist and communist-like dictators that followed the same formula in countries like cuba, china, N Korea, zimbabwe, and cambodia. There are even micro versions like Jonestown.

Besides, porche person doesn't strike me as much of a nationalist.

/troll

Liberty275 5 years ago

Tom Shewmon makes a very good point porch person. The secrecy of the current "ping-pong" fest is exactly the opposite of what obama promised you (he didn't promise me anything).

Liberty275 5 years ago

"C-Span has already “televised literally hundreds of hours of committee meetings"

So why not allow the final bargaining to be televised? Is there something so secret in that process that must be kept hidden from the American public as well as the politicians on the other side of the aisle? If so, doesn't that bother you regardless of what obama said?

jumpin_catfish 5 years ago

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck.....

BrianR 5 years ago

Try them and if the are, indeed, at war with the United States. Execute them.

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