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Archive for Tuesday, January 5, 2010

‘We are jihadists,’ not terrorists, suspects say

January 5, 2010

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— Five northern Virginia men arrested in Pakistan indicated Monday that they plan to fight terrorism charges that Pakistani police are recommending by using a strategy seen in U.S. courtrooms: that they were preparing for jihad but not planning any terror attacks.

The men told a Pakistani court that they had neither sought nor established contact with extremist groups, and traveled to the region only “to help the helpless Muslims,” according to their Pakistani attorney. As they entered the courtroom, one of the men, Ramy Zamzam, told reporters: “We are not terrorists. We are jihadists, and jihad is not terrorism.”

No charges were filed during the hearing in Sargodha, but Pakistani police said their formal recommendation that the men be charged under anti-terrorism laws — and sentenced to life in prison — would be filed by today.

Comments

Thing 4 years, 3 months ago

porch person reads moveon.org and the huffington post and believes them.

Laughter!

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TrooGrit 4 years, 3 months ago

porch person reads! (laughter) - third grade level i might add.

Nuke them, nuke them all. Nice 6000 mile parking lot from Iran, to Iraq to Libya. I know, too extreme for you left wing nut jobs who wring their hands on whether to pay their parking tickets, for not planning ahead, good God, that's not my job, city take care of me.

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ComradeRedRooster 4 years, 3 months ago

BW/HGA reads...

(maybe a little, but BW surely doesn't comprehend)

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

TomShewmon reads the Washington Times......

(laughter)

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RidgeRunner 4 years, 3 months ago

So, keeping with the "American" spirit and our convoluted language Grand.... When they are being hung by their scrawny necks, I'll be glad to know they found what they were looking for-- for their "struggle"........

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 3 months ago

There is no conflict amongst liberals when it comes to Christianity and when who's who in DC says something from the heart about his or her faith. It's taboo within the ranks of neo-liberals. The Olbermann types come apart. One of the big reasons they hate Palin. Muslims are misunderstood, Christians need to go away-----this is the mindset of neo-libs.

"On MSNBC, the preternaturally truculent Keith Olbermann said Mr. Hume should "keep religious advocacy out of public life since, you know, the worst examples of that are jihadists, not to mention, you know, guys who don't know their own religions or somebody else's religion like Brit Hume." His guest, homosexual activist Dan Savage, chimed in that, "American Christianity has been hijacked by the lunatics, by the Pat Robertsons ... and by people like Brit Hume, and it's an insult to Christianity, it's an insult to Christians." Also on MSNBC, news host David Shuster suggested that Mr. Hume somehow had "denigate* Christianity" by mentioning his faith on the air."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jan/06/throwing-brit-hume-to-the-lions/?source=newsletter_opinion_headlines

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BrianR 4 years, 3 months ago

Try them and if the are, indeed, at war with the United States. Execute them.

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ComradeRedRooster 4 years, 3 months ago

porch_person (Anonymous) says…

"I guess my point is, to stop religious nuts at the source, demonstrate how they are not being religious and then everyone sees them as power hungry frauds."

HGA/BW has a point. Environmentalists have created a religious cult out of global warming, but strip away the fake science and lies and you have liberal elitists as power hungry frauds.

As for Jihadist or terrorist, naming it won't stop it. Labeling will however have an impact on support. we call them terrorists not to agitate them but to erode support. We use this technique to modify group behavior in Afghanistan, training their forces. We no longer refer to celebritory fire as such, it is now undisciplined fire. Instances of firing their weapons in celebration quickly declined.

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barrypenders 4 years, 3 months ago

Your Progressive Articulations are awe inspiring pp...........I bet you are the "bees knees" at quilting bee gatherings.

Sleep tight

Stimulus, Extremist PAD's(Progressive Articulate Demanders) and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless you

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Roland Gunslinger 4 years, 3 months ago

They call themselves "jihadists"? Pfft... they don't even know their own religion/culture/language.

In Arabic, the word jihad is a noun meaning "struggle." Common usage as the idiomatic expression "striving in the way of Allah (al-jihad fi sabil Allah)".

A person engaged in jihad is called a mujahid, the plural is mujahideen.

There is no such thing as a "jihadist". You are a mujahid or, as a group, mujahideen.

If you're going to act like a terrorist, at least be somewhat cognizant of the correct name for yourself lest you come off looking like an amateur.

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Pilgrim2 4 years, 3 months ago

porch_person (Anonymous) says…

If you want to stop people from having “holy wars” against you, attack the religion. Theologically. Show them, unequivocally how “the Koran” gets it wrong.


OK, expert, show us. But make sure you're using a universally accepted translation of the Koran. (How many different translations are there?) And be prepared for some of your targeted audience to be as willful in their misinterpretations of your message as you are on this forum.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 3 months ago

"...and I'm with them." - porch

Nuf said.

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

The mindless repetition of self-created urban myths seems to a requirement of your clubhouse, Tom and Liberty.

Shewmon, do you have nothing better to offer than endlessly walking into walls? I have no regrets voting for Obama. Remember when McCain left his campaign to come back to Washington to do........nothing during the economic crisis in the Bush Administration?

(laughter)

That's the kind of intelligence we didn't elect. Intelligence that doesn't know what a Vice-President does.

Yes, Tom, even after all that abuse of Palin, you still don't know that a Vice-President really doesn't do that much. I know it's a shocker to you and certainly it was to Pretty Sarah Palin, homecoming queen of Wasilla (no rape kits here) Alaska.

(laughter)

You want jobs instantly after George W. Bush gave us the worst depression since the Great Depression? We could do that (FDR provided that model) but you'd bitch about that too. Fortunately, we've risen to the point where we don't need to do that.

====

The polls are against the product of this legislative fight and I'm with them. This package, without a public option or revocation of anti-trust exemption for health insurance companies is not what we elected the Democrats to implement.

It's not "Obamacare", it's diluted and corrupted BS. I've already offered the opinion that Obama would rise in popularity if he promised to veto anything that hit his desk without a public option. The polling numbers for the public option are high and always have been.

It's your job to conflate the public option with the current package (which does not have a public option in it) in order to kill both. Would you do that feat of dishonesty? Of course you would, you do it all the time.

I know that you're upset that two of your fringe companions got thrown off the board this week but go have a beer with them, commiserate and wonder what will happen when the most expensive health care system in the world (already) implodes without reform. And it will.

That's the Republican solution. The status quo. The most expensive health care system in the world, one that can't even break the top thirty in outcomes.

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jumpin_catfish 4 years, 3 months ago

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck.....

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 3 months ago

Porch, porch, porch sigh even a broken clock is correct twice a day. You're upset with what you voted for, I understand. Obama is not transparent. Pelosi is not transparent. Reid is not transparent. Axelrod, Emanuel and Jarrett are the antithesis of transparency.

(laughter)

Explain this one to me. Why have 1/3 of terrorist's attempts since 9/11, successful or otherwise, been on Obama's watch? Why are Americans in some polls, nearly 6 out of 10 against ObamaCare? Where are the 4.5 million jobs? Do I need to go on?

(laughter)

Again, I query, where in the wide world of sports is Joe Biden? Is he still alive? In rehab? Where the heck is he?!

(laughter)

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Liberty275 4 years, 3 months ago

"C-Span has already “televised literally hundreds of hours of committee meetings"

So why not allow the final bargaining to be televised? Is there something so secret in that process that must be kept hidden from the American public as well as the politicians on the other side of the aisle? If so, doesn't that bother you regardless of what obama said?

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Liberty275 4 years, 3 months ago

Tom Shewmon makes a very good point porch person. The secrecy of the current "ping-pong" fest is exactly the opposite of what obama promised you (he didn't promise me anything).

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

TomShewmon,

C-Span has already "televised literally hundreds of hours of committee meetings, mark ups, and floor debate for the public to see". http://www.c-span.org/pdf/C-SPAN%20Health%20Care%20Letter.pdf

(laughter)

When are you ever "right", Tom? The letter from 12/30/09 is asking for further access and since they've gotten it in the past, my bet is that they will continue to get it in the future. No one is hiding anything from anyone. Jeez!!

God, you and your misrepresentations are so tiresome to knock down.

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Liberty275 4 years, 3 months ago

"good little troll and jumping right into bed with Godwin… well, it's perplexing"

It shouldn't be perplexing. Its really quite simple. The socialist political party that invokes godwin's law were mere amateurs compared to a single communist dictator, mr stalin. But then you have lots of other communist and communist-like dictators that followed the same formula in countries like cuba, china, N Korea, zimbabwe, and cambodia. There are even micro versions like Jonestown.

Besides, porche person doesn't strike me as much of a nationalist.

/troll

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 3 months ago

Porch, when Obama campaigned, he said the congressional debates on healthcare should be televised on C-Span. Not only is that not happening, Dems are playing "ping-pong" with bills. They are slamming doors and having conference calls with no Repubs present. They are everything they campaigned NOT to be and everything they accused Repubs of being. Noone is fooled. Why are you? I take you on your word that you're more intelligent than most of us.

(laughter)

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Liberty275 4 years, 3 months ago

"Which, when you think about it, “Liberty”275, isn't all that different from the Old Testament, is it?"

I don't know. I've been an atheist since I was about 10, which means I've been an atheist about 35 years. Religious stuff doesn't really interest me. If you say communism isn't all that different than a book of fairy tales, I'm thinking you might be onto something, notwithstanding the imperfect meshing of the metaphor.

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

TomShewmon,

Americans are fed up with the Democrats not implementing what we sent them to Washington to implement. Americans are fed up with the partisan bickering on behalf of major industries.

Obama's not being transparent about what issue, Tom? Couldn't be the torture that went on in Guantanamo, now could it? That's Bush's doing, not Obama's. Apparently, it was so bad that Obama thinks it would be better left unspoken. That must be pretty bad.

Whatever color the Democrats call the sky, I'm sure that you and those like you will call it something else and such conflict is always exciting but it hardly gets things done and it doesn't help America in the long run.

I have no problems thinking of myself as an American. Why don't you try it? 99.9% of your anger and vitriol is directed at the choice of your fellow Americans.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 3 months ago

Stick to those 2 or 3 points porch and we'll see how things shake out. I'm just guessing that Americans have very rapidly had it up to their eyeballs with Obama, his "transparency" (laughter) and Dems running congress. Exciting times ahead! I'll cede that Bush may have not been the greatest, but what we have now by all accounts has been an egregious affront to any American who loves their country. One element of human character is, people do not like to feel like they've been hoodwinked. So, how ironic that Bush was famous for the "fool me twice; won't be fooled again" gaffe. (Laughter).

(laughter)

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

TomShewmon,

Well, the Dow is over 10,500 (a 25% gain!) but you knew that,.....

(laughter)

We're fighting al Qaeda and the Taliban in the country they are actually in versus the country where they were not.

(laughter)

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 3 months ago

Wutev porchie. You've desperately tried for so long to prove that you're smarter than the rest of us. OK, I'm convinced. BTW, how's that "hope" and "change" and "new direction" workin' out fer ya'?

(laughter)

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

TomShewmon,

Yep, Tom, you're right. Health care reform was shot down in the early stages of the Clinton Administration and here it is again. It's a problem. We should solve it. It's not going away.

Karl Rove did a lot of "lie spreading", didn't he? People aren't saluting when Republican trot out the old symbols and fear-mongering anymore, are they? They've been lied to too much. Swiftboating doesn't have the sting it once had. Republicans have lost in the last two election cycles and they've been driven down to the point of being a reality show, complete with family dysfunction.

(laughter)

Tell me,....what "solutions" do the Republicans have? For anything. Anything at all?

See what I mean?

(laughter)

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 3 months ago

Truth hurts. Face it far-left zealots, Dems blew their chance.

Remember:

Lies spread quickly, but truth has endurance.

Remember that far left idealogues.

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Kirk Larson 4 years, 3 months ago

Tom Shrewman, You bring up Dorgan who said in response to the repeal of Glass- Steagal,"I think we will look back in 10 years’ time and say we should not have done this but we did because we forgot the lessons of the past, and that that which is true in the 1930’s is true in 2010." He sure called that one!

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

TomShewmon,

Why is Michelle Bachmann telling us to not fill out our census forms? http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/18/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5095844.shtml With nutcases like that on the Republican side, what's there to worry about?

Remember,.... you guys thought Sarah Palin was a "good idea".

(laughter)

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 3 months ago

That senate majority (even a simple majority) seems to be forevermore threatened. What'll ya' lefties do when Obama gets his gravy train cut off?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/senate/dorgan-to-retire.html?wpisrc=newsletter

Why are so many Dems, eh-heh, "retiring"?

(laughter)

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Kirk Larson 4 years, 3 months ago

Wallythewalrus (Anonymous) says… He did not say kill everyone whom does not believe in me.

No, but a few Popes and Inquisitors did.

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

Agnostick,

Hey, thanks for the link. This is fascinating. American History X in real life.

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

Wallythewalrus,

You deal with the extremist the exact same way you would deal with a mass murderer or a serial murderer here. You try to prevent them, you arrest them, you prosecute them, you incarcerate or execute them.

What you don't do is attribute the actions of one or two guys over an entire religion or peoples. I don't think everyone in California is Charles Manson and I don't think everyone in Iran thinks America is the Great Satan.

If you get one or two guys to believe that they speak for an entire nation, then their ego gets a huge boost, especially if you broadcast such a pronouncement to the world. That's when you're asking for it.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 3 months ago

Maybe after reading some of the past several posts, I need to try and re-define "liberal elitists" .......fyi, there will be a downgrade involved.

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Shane Garrett 4 years, 3 months ago

AgnosticK A few arrest and the group disbanded. Can we say the same for jihadists?

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Shane Garrett 4 years, 3 months ago

I guess I could just go ask my Muslim friend across the hall. Of course, he has stated in the past that most of these people cannot read and the preaching are corrupt. Much like all radical clerics. That Most of these un-educated muslims then follow like sheep. He says they will recite a few correct words form the Koran and then the rest is he has never heard of before.

So, like I asked before. What is ones response to those who would do us harm? People will think you are a right wing nut if you want to defend your home land and go to war against Jahidist. People think you are a weak limp wristed liberal if you do nothing.

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Agnostick 4 years, 3 months ago

porch, there were quite a few of those types living over near Wamego at one time. The running joke was that while Hubby/Daddy was out front in full fatigues, "carrying," and carryin' on 'bout the big bad guhvmint... Wifey/Mommy was quietly driving over to pick up the welfare check and the food stamps.

Those rabble rousers also handed out quite a few rubber checks. Nothing says "Liberty" or "Freedom" like screwing over your local independent business owner.

http://www.newcomm.org/content/view/1722/93/

Guess ol' Uncle Sam had some "jihadists" living under his porch, as well. ;)

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

(laughter)

Wallythewalrus, the far right wing conservatives on this forum are unfriendly to Americans!!

(laughter)

Just announcing that one is Muslim will get the underwear of one of these "Michigan Militia" types all up in a knot.

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Shane Garrett 4 years, 3 months ago

Why do we not hear from some one of the Islamic faith? What is their view point.
The 10 georgia stone rules are okay.
But what do you do when others don't follow those rules?

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Agnostick 4 years, 3 months ago

Which, when you think about it, "Liberty"275, isn't all that different from the Old Testament, is it?

Why you chose to pussyfoot around with the Red Menace, instead of being a good little troll and jumping right into bed with Godwin... well, it's perplexing.

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Liberty275 4 years, 3 months ago

"What rules for managing large numbers of humans, societies, would be more appropriate for you pp?"

How about communism? Just kill everyone that isn't on board with the dictators socialist plan. That always makes for a leftwing nirvana. Well, except for having to bury all the independent thinkers before they stink up the place.

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couranna1 4 years, 3 months ago

he will last as long as it takes porch person to be funny {long time in case you did not get that} What a loser dude

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jimmyjms 4 years, 3 months ago

I don't care what side of the aisle you saddle up on, "Buck O'Fama" is freaking hilarious.

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bobberboy 4 years, 3 months ago

livingstone - what's your name and address. From the way you write I can tell you are either illiterate or a foreigner and I need to notify the F.B.I..

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barrypenders 4 years, 3 months ago

I appreciate it Agnostick. Those 10 Guidelines seem like a sound way to go to manage all lifeforms on the planet. At least until the sun supernovas. Maybe, if the ones with the power do not regulate mankind into submission, imaginative creativity will evolve a method for us to explore other heavenly bodies in the universe to live on.

Stimulus, 10 Guidelines For Eternal Longevity and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless you

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MyName 4 years, 3 months ago

Okay, I'm confused. Are these Americans arrested in Pakistan, or what? "Five northern Virginia men arrested in Pakistan". Sounds like all of the hot air in this thread is from people who didn't RTFA.

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justanothertroll 4 years, 3 months ago

who cares, just kill all them people

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Sean Livingstone 4 years, 3 months ago

Looks like these folks use words just like the right wing Republicans.... or the left wing Democrats. We're Jihad, not terrorism. Oh, Obama is a communist and socialist, and a Nazi (well, Nazism is always associated with the right and not left). And extreme left kept saying the right wings are earth destroyer... takes more than one hand to clap dear. Islamic terrorism on the United State didn't begin because the so-called, "they hate our lifestyle". Even Osama has already told the US.... "you live your life, and stop bothering with us". Well, we kept wanting to bother how they live their lives, so they keep on teaching us "lessons". I'm no left wing nut, but it's easy to understand why they feel this way. Maybe the Russians try to teach us how we should live our lives, maybe, some of the right wing nuts may go into Russia to start killing them.

Show they good example, and they will follow....

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bobberboy 4 years, 3 months ago

jihadists are actually worse than terrorists. At least most terrorists have a cause based in some kind of logic. Jihadists are just crazed fundamentalist religious freaks bent on exterminating all those who don't happen to have the same beliefs as they do.

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Agnostick 4 years, 3 months ago

barrypenders (Anonymous) says… "What rules for managing large numbers of humans, societies, would be more appropriate for you pp?"


Excuse me for butting in, or speaking out of turn, but the question immediately brings to mind this fascinating piece of work:

http://www.thegeorgiaguidestones.com/Message.htm

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-05/ff_guidestones?currentPage=all

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Shane Garrett 4 years, 3 months ago

Book 001, Number 0031: It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that he heard the Messenger of Allah say: I have been commanded to fight against people, till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the messenger (from the Lord) and in all that I have brought. And when they do it, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the light, no man shall enter the kindom of heaven except through me.

He did not say kill everyone whom does not believe in me.

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puddleglum 4 years, 3 months ago

Thing (Anonymous) says…

Warriors do not blow up aircraft that are full of non-combatants, terrorists do. Warriors do not set intentionally set off bombs is market places, targeting only civilians, terrorists do

yeah, that's the way we see it, but since their enemy is basically everyone but themselves (combatants and non-combatants alike) they see fit to blow up whatever they can.

the solution? only a 'final' one.

lets use up these nukes we got sitting around...they were all paid for years ago, so the cost is minimal. lay waste to yee middle east. two words- glass factory

everybody wins.

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Shane Garrett 4 years, 3 months ago

We never gave these rights to Nazi saboteurs captured during World War II; after extracting what useful information they possessed, President Franklin Roosevelt ordered that they be tried by a military tribunal, and they were subsequently sent to the electric chair. It's difficult to see why today's enemy combatants are not treated the same way.

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

Gee, anyone want to get in on the pool on how long "Buck_Ofama" lasts?

I'd hurry.

(laughter)

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jimmyjms 4 years, 3 months ago

No different than Pete Hoekstra calling himself a "patriot" instead of a "traitor."

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Buck_Ofama 4 years, 3 months ago

Obama is the closest thing to a jihadists we could have elected. Maybe he is a jihady, and we just don't know it yet. He is out to get the middle to upper and upper class. He seems to dislike current status quo and american values. Isn't this what jihadys think too? He was never checked out and never released documents. How did this happen?

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barrypenders 4 years, 3 months ago

I'm sorry pp. I did "hope" you'd "change" your elaborate explaination for your method of managing mankind, into a "cliff note' version.

Again, sorry

Stimulus, C.L.a P. Carnal Knowledge and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless you

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MaryKatesPillStash 4 years, 3 months ago

"The list of things that the Bible has “gotten wrong” in those 1800 years is lengthy. The list of things the Koran has gotten wrong is lengthy. The Koran's description of jihad sounds like a speech by Jim Jones. The Book of Revelation sounds like florid psychosis or a bad acid trip."

Thank you, porch_person. This is almost exactly how I see things.

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

barrypenders,

(laughter)

Is this the same barrypenders who was agin' carnal knowledge yesterday? The same barrypenders who makes fun of Charles Darwin with every post?

(laughter)

I'd tell you but you wouldn't understand it and you'd just get mad.

Truth is, you've already had it presented to you but I can't understand why you don't comprehend it as yet.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 3 months ago

Has anyone mentioned on this thread that a sizable percentage of the victims of radical Islam are other Muslims who don't agree that Satan will make meatballs from your buttocks if you allow women to wear trousers?

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barrypenders 4 years, 3 months ago

All right pp, you say that the information/guidelines for managing large numbers of humans in the Koran and Bible is poppycock. What rules for managing large numbers of humans, societies, would be more appropriate for you pp? You may "cherry pick" as necessary.

Thanks

Stimulus, Extremist PAD's and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless you

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MyName 4 years, 3 months ago

@leedavid:

Oh sure, how about "crusade". It can mean "a war instigated by the Church for alleged religious ends" (so a holy war), or "an organized campaign concerning a political, social, or religious issue, typically motivated by a fervent desire for change".

But clearly there must be a conspiracy to hide the true meaning of "crusade" here.

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Esq2eB 4 years, 3 months ago

I took a jihad just this morning.

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

leedavid,

We have our radicals too. You can't talk to radicals but you can prevent them from entering the mainstream. Marginalizing them and keeping them marginalized is the best.

"Interaction" is the best protocol. Having their youngun's grow up and say "I've met some Americans and they're not so bad." That, literally, is the most effective way of showing that the religious BS is "wack" and that Western democracy is the ok.

Have you ever noticed that religious nuts isolate their clans? Both in America and in Afghanistan? No education. Lock the women and children up in houses. Hang out in the isolated mountains. There's a reason for that.

They are locking out reality. Reality is their worst enemy. Not us. Reality.

Give them reality, the psycho religion falls away.

This was the whole point in that old canard "The deadliest weapon we inflicted upon the Soviets was smuggling in a copy of the White Album." Showing them that life isn't what some sun-baked Iman tells them it is is the deadliest weapon we have.

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leedavid 4 years, 3 months ago

Porch...sounds great....now how do we get the radical Muslims on board? I love the thought, but they claim to be at war with us since the 90's and they are doing a heck of a job. So far, talking hasn't produced a lot of results for the U.S.. Some in the middle east, but not a lot of results there either. War doesn't work, unless we did the old approach and just wiped them off the planet, took their possessions, women and children. That is not our style, despite what some "Avatar" viewers may say. LOL!

It's a mess.

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

Ok, the Muslims have their 1400 year old "Bible" and we have our ~1800 year old "Koran".

Ho Hummm

What depresses me about all of this is that you guys are still taking these books seriously. Both sides of "you guys".

The list of things that the Bible has "gotten wrong" in those 1800 years is lengthy. The list of things the Koran has gotten wrong is lengthy. The Koran's description of jihad sounds like a speech by Jim Jones. The Book of Revelation sounds like florid psychosis or a bad acid trip.

If you want to stop people from having "holy wars" against you, attack the religion. Theologically. Show them, unequivocally how "the Koran" gets it wrong. The Catholic Church shouldn't have all the fun.

We're modern people. Find a way to demonstrate that the Earth isn't the Center of the Universe (this is an analogy) and they will have their own "Reformation". Then we have no more problem. Replaying the Crusades is insane.

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ChiHawkInKS 4 years, 3 months ago

Why you would sympathize with these men is beyond me.

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Esq2eB 4 years, 3 months ago

Please do not call me an infidel any longer. I am "Jihadistly Challenged".

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 3 months ago

"toe-MAY-toe", "toe-MAH-toe". Whatever. Take 'em out back & shoot 'em.

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leedavid 4 years, 3 months ago

This is the best discussion of "Jihad" I have ever seen.

Source: http://www.kashmirherald.com/featuredarticle/whatisjihad.html

Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan of Islamic University, Medina Al- Munawwara, Saudi Arabia, the translator of Sahih Al-Bukhari, in the glossary of Arabic words translates Jihad as “Holy fighting in the cause of Allah or any other kind of effort to make Allah’s word (Islam) superior which is regarded as one of the principles of Islam.” 8

Dictionary of Islam defines jihad as “a religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Quran and in the Traditions as a divine institution, enjoined specially for the purpose advancing Islam and repelling evils from Muslims.”1

Hard to twist that into "struggle" Grammaddy

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couranna1 4 years, 3 months ago

It is Jihad they are defending their way of life

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barrypenders 4 years, 3 months ago

Just let the "Noble Peace Laureate" community talk 'em to death.

Stimulus, Extremist PAD's and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless us all

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Satirical 4 years, 3 months ago

I totally believe these five men. I mean, since when does merely teaching fellow jihadists bomb making skills and encouraging attacks on innocent civilians qualify one as a "terrorist?" Since when does providing aid, and support for other terrorist qualify you as a terrorist? Clearly these guys are jihadists and not terrorists.

I think they got their argument from Obama who sincerely believes that if you slap a different label on a can of green beans you can turn it into corn. Believing that relabeling our war against terror will alter the perception of single terrorist is naive, but on the bright side, it may get Obama another oh-so-coveted Nobel Peace Prize. Hoorah for distinctions without differences! Three cheers for form over substance!

Keep leading the way Obama! Your rhetoric isn’t keeping anyone safe, but at least it is scoring you political points and making believers out of naïve liberals. But that is all that is really important…right?

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 3 months ago

This forum is turning into a real drag.

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

I guess my point is, to stop religious nuts at the source, demonstrate how they are not being religious and then everyone sees them as power hungry frauds. Then you have the whole world hunting them down, (including their own people) instead of providing them with a prepackaged "bad guy", like we have been doing.

The current policy is to avoid looking like a bad guy. Understand? We're taking any and all weapons out of their hands, including the ability to portray us a bad guys.

A little changed rhetoric doesn't reduce our ability to "kick ass" one iota. It does take a weapon out of the other side's hand.

Witness our response to the aftermath of Iran's elections. Ahmadinejad wanted us to come in. Desperately wanted us to invade, like we had in Iraq.

Obama didn't give that to him and it hurt him. Ahmadinejad is now fighting for his political life against his own people, as it should be. Obama isn't Bush. He's not stupid.

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

"Obey Allah and associate no partner with Him. Treat kindly your parents, relatives, The orphans, And those who have been left alone in the society. Take care of the needy, The disabled, Those whose hard earned income is insufficient to meet their needs, And those whose businesses have stalled, And those who have lost their jobs.

You shall treat kindly your related neighbors, And unrelated neighbors, Companions by your side in public gatherings, Or public transportation.

Be generous to the needy wayfarer, the homeless son of the street, and the one who reaches you in a destitute condition. Be nice to people who work under your care. Allah does not love the proud and boastful." --- The Koran translation by QXP

===

I've separated out the relevant passage. Of course, like our Bible, I'm sure that the Koran has conflicting passages that say the exact opposite.

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cowboy 4 years, 3 months ago

Use a jihadist brand bullet rather than a terrorist bullet to put a cap in their A$$

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anon1958 4 years, 3 months ago

Well they could have joined one of many human rights organizations or other NGO's that are trying to help impoverished Muslims in dozens of countries if their intentions were truly noble.

Regardless of what they have or have not done they are certainly idiots and most likely dumber than Ma and Pa Heene of balloon boy infamy.

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porch_person 4 years, 3 months ago

Perhaps taking this declaration into account would be useful in fighting this group. I'm sure that there are passages in the Koran which would frown upon this sort of gesture against non-warriors. These could be used against these extremists. Attacking the religious underpinnings of the faith is the deepest blow we could make (along with weaning ourselves off of their primary export).

I think Obama's decision to linguistically reframe this conflict is a wise one. "Wars" define the other side.

If we aren't at war with anyone, then whoever attacks us is an aggressor.

Have any of you conservatives figured that out yet?

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barrypenders 4 years, 3 months ago

PAD's can call them whatever they want. I call them "bad guys". Guys that need to be beat back til they are useless.

Stimulus, Extremist PAD's and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless you all

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SettingTheRecordStraight 4 years, 3 months ago

grammady,

I'm not an Islam expert, but a more common definition of "jihad" is holy war - as in a war by the Muslim faithful against American infidels.

In the case of the five men from northern Virginia, their strategy is to convince a court that their plan was "jihad-lite." The Pakistanis should should be very suspicious of that argument.

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Thing 4 years, 3 months ago

Warriors do not blow up aircraft that are full of non-combatants, terrorists do. Warriors do not set intentionally set off bombs is market places, targeting only civilians, terrorists do.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 3 months ago

Americans populate Pakistan? Wow! I'm sure the Pakistani court will take that under consideration. (rolling eyes)

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grammaddy 4 years, 3 months ago

That's true. Americans have twisted most language beyond recognition. "Jihad" actually means struggle. Of course the "politics of fear " has twisted that all around to make us afraid of anything that has to do with that area of the world.

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