Law enforcement conducts first of four fake ID stings in Lawrence / LJWorld.com

Archive for Tuesday, February 23, 2010

Law enforcement conducts first of four fake ID stings in Lawrence

Lawrence police performed the first of four planned fake ID stings at local businesses Monday. The stings are part of a two-month effort to reduce underage drinking.

By Jesse Fray

February 23, 2010, 1:04 p.m. Updated February 23, 2010, 3:37 p.m.

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Local law enforcement agencies conducted the first of four planned fake ID stings in Lawrence on Monday night, the same night the Kansas University men’s basketball team played Oklahoma in front of a national TV audience.

Five people were found using fake IDs in 35 different bars, liquor stores and restaurants that were randomly checked, said Lawrence Police Sgt. Bill Cory.

Nine officers from the Lawrence Police Department, Douglas County Sheriff's Office, Kansas University Public Safety Office and Kansas Division of Alcoholic Beverage Control conducted the ID operation in the city.

This week’s sting is part of a larger information and enforcement campaign, dubbed Fake ID 101, to reduce alcohol access to minors. Three more saturation patrols are scheduled before the end of March, including after spring break, when DCCCA Inc. officials said students sometimes travel abroad, obtain fake IDs and then bring them back with them.

“This whole idea is about deterring young people from using fake IDs,” said Mini Kaur, co-chair of the New Tradition Coalition of Lawrence, a local alcohol- and drug-free advocacy group. “Young people need to know there are consequences for breaking the law, and they also need to know these laws are actually going to be enforced.”

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shari4 4 years, 1 month ago

One of the places they went to was Chilis. They only carded three people there, one of which was underage. They did send an undercover cop in first, but they didn't attempt to buy anything using a fake ID. The undercover cop was simply a lookout to see if anyone drinking alcohol appeared to possibly be under 21. If there were, then the other cops would come in and ask said people for their IDs.

My question is, why would they go to Chilis? It's not a huge hangout for underage drinkers. Sounds like they got lucky that night when they went there.

And, if the ID is good enough, the bartender won't get charged with serving alcohol to a minor. As long as they asked for an ID and it was acceptable, then they did their job. They can't get in trouble for doing that.

Pudgy1 4 years, 1 month ago

Someone said they think the cops busting folks for fake ID's is a waste of time and money. If the cops didn't do this and some underage person got drunk and then had a wreck and got dead, those same folks would complain that the cops should have done something to prevent it.

KUnlv13 4 years, 1 month ago

For those of you without insight into the glorious world unlocked for a KU youngin' following the acquisition of a fake ID , allow me to share my experience.

As a KU student a group of buddies and I hit Las Vegas with the most atrocious Oklahoma fake DL's; the old laminated one-hologram doozy that even when legitimate appeared questionable. It did not last long, as security was quick to hit the gaming floor and trounce my efforts at dominating the craps pit. Months later, I was no longer interested in the house party scene in the student ghetto, and yearned for the glory that awaited on Mass Street. Alas, word came that there was a fake ID store in Dallas that produced remarkable DL's, and 2 for $50! Away we went.

So many states to choose from, however my inner hillbilly eventually decided upon Arkansas, because, well, who the hell has really seen too many Arkansas ID's? Back to Lawrence I went, and within a few months there I was, on the Wall of Foam at Old Chicago. At 18.

Although a baby-face, I was rarely accosted with the good ole' Arkansas DL in tote, and I did eventually make it back to Las Vegas without problems (except that my Craps lesson ended up being fairly costly)

Interestingly enough, I received word about 3 months after purchasing my fake ID that the store in Dallas was eventually shut down; not for the production of fake ID's for minors but rather for the distribution of fake ID's to illegal immigrants that were subsequently opening fraudulent bank accounts and what-not.

In graduate school, and now a bartender on the LV Strip, I am oddly enough quite the stickler regarding ID's. Not because I give a damn about 'protecting the children', but rather that the fines out here are in the thousands for both the bartender and the venue. Bottoms Up, folks.

Bourbon recommendation of the day: Pappy Van Winkle 18 year

Fatty_McButterpants 4 years, 1 month ago

Hate to bring some facts into this interesting discussion, but "probable cause" is not the standard used - or needed - to stop someone as probable cause applies to the arrest of an individual. An officer need only have a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed, in order to stop and detain someone. And yes, "detention" is distinguishable from "arrest."

Steven Gaudreau 4 years, 1 month ago

The Hawk was checked, no minors. The Hawk is an easy target but what most of you don't know is On The Border and El Mezcal serve more minors per customer ratio the the Hawk or any other business in town. The difference is that chain restaurants are never checked. According to police bar check numbers, On The Border has only been checked once since the business opened. Five MIP's were issued. LPD never went back. LHS students drink in the basement every weekend at El Mezcal on Iowa. Cops have been their only twice.

Melissa Sigler 4 years, 1 month ago

gsxr600 (anonymous) says... Did they go to the Hawk? 30%+ are underage.

I'd say more like 40%

and the other 60% are age 35 and up.

Steven Gaudreau 4 years, 1 month ago

kc, When the ABC does a sting, a minor attempts to buy with a valid i.d. stating that person is a minor. I know this to be a fact. The saturation sting is more like a raid and random patrons who are drinking alcohol are asked for their i.d. 's.

kclee 4 years, 1 month ago

I'm not sure if you were serious, but what they do is have a snitch go in that is underage using a fake ID. If the employee serves them a drink knowing that the ID is fake or without even looking at it, then they get fined.

As for why they are doing thing in a town where most of the money relies on underage drinking... I'm not sure either.

oneeye_wilbur 4 years, 1 month ago

35 establishments the first time around netted 5 fake IDs.So with three more rounds to go and at the end a total of 140 establishments, will the net fake IDS amount to 20.

This is a smoke and mirrors game. It really serves no purpose. It would make more sense to have the police cite open bottles being carried from bars, the new hotel, and downtown area. That should net more than 20 on any given night.

This really is a waste of time. Who ordered these fake ID stings to take place? Who?

theWOP16 4 years, 1 month ago

A few years ago my best friend got busted using a fake id 2 weeks after serving his 1st tour in iraq. In my mind this is all a waste of time and money, change the drinking age to 18...if you are old enough to die for your country, you should be able to drink a few worry free beers with friends.

BlackVelvet 4 years, 1 month ago

Don't you folks realize that the cops do these kind of things just so the whiny-butts on here will have something to complain about? That's the only reason they do it!

missmagoo 4 years, 1 month ago

seems like this would be more appropriate on a friday or saturday night.... not a monday.. ku game or not.

i have to agree with agl.. seems like kind of a waste.

Jeteras 4 years, 1 month ago

wouldnt there be more revenue in 2 hrs of saturation speed checks on Iowa or 23rd street? Fake ID's are not going to go away.. So what a 20 year old buys some beer goes back to his place and gets drunk. Its been happening for years whats the difference.

With ticket fines today I would think that 3 officers on Iowa for 2 hrs could generate $5000 worth of revenue and maybe catch a few DRUNK non fake ID holders..

Stephanie Anderson 4 years, 1 month ago

5 people in 35 establishments. If there are 20 people in each bar, we're not even talking about 1%. How is this worth the tax dollars? Doesn't sound like an out-of-control problem to me.

RKLOG 4 years, 1 month ago

KU is always asking for advice on how to curb underage drinking. But I can't imagine jail time and fining college students, for having a fake ID, as anything but a waste of time, money, and probably more mentally damaging than having a few drinks. Drinking problems need to be addressed therapeutically and medically, and with tact, not with threats. And yes the police can be very threatening. Bullying, derogatory terms, and draconian law never gets an intelligent, progressive society anywhere. Keep in mind that I am being polite here.

flyin_squirrel 4 years, 1 month ago

They went to the Hawk and Wheel but didn't get anybody.

viagra_sailor 4 years, 1 month ago

Those underage types make the lines longer when I'm trying to fetch my booze from the local saloon.

+1 for the cops needing to go to the hawk. i literally see people hand their id's down the line as they enter... how much is the hawk contributing to the city?

Liberty275 4 years, 1 month ago

I wonder how much of our money they wasted rooting out 4 teenagers that were drinking teh evil alcohol before the government officially determined they were old enough. Horay for our beloved nannystate and the special interest group (AKA grant-vacum) that thinks they need to shove their noses in other people's business and teach them lessons.

9070811 4 years, 1 month ago

Let's get real on this. Of underage individuals who go to bars, a small percentage have falsely manufactured IDs. Everyone else has passed down or passed around real IDs.

"After the four fake ID stings are completed, when will the real ID stings begin"

^^ obviously makes the most sense.

Not many underage drinkers go out and look for a someone who can make an ID on a printing press. They're way more expensive then paying your older sister 20$ or paying a friend of a friend 20$.

Now, that being said, not many individuals with false identification go into liquor stores to purchase alcohol. That's pretty stupid, however, some do try and you can see them on display at Cork&Barrel.

5 citations on any given night is a pretty weak number for the amount of underage drinkers at bars.

mr_right_wing 4 years, 1 month ago

Just ask some of the bar and liquor store owners who have been victims of fake i.d.s if they think this is a bad idea...

krsmln 4 years, 1 month ago

I wonder how many hundreds of legal drinkers had their chains yanked to bust the 5 perps. Probable cause is what ever the police say it is. Glancing at them is considered suspicious behavior.

drnater 4 years, 1 month ago

@rtpayton, your point about drunk driving is a moot point. so they stopped an underage driver, that doesnt mean they stopped the of age one that is more likely to kill you since there are more "legal" drinkers who drive than "illegal" drinkers. give me a break, you have a better chance of eating yourself to death than being killed by an underage drunk driver.

lawthing 4 years, 1 month ago

So let this be a lesson to the twinks, next time stay home and drink the ole' mans ale.

polly13 4 years, 1 month ago

I wonder if I can get one that says I'm 21 ...again...lol

Esq2eB 4 years, 1 month ago

The police officers can go into a public establishment and request ID if someone appears underage and is drinking. They only need to have reasonable belief that a person, is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a misdemeanor or felony. It's called a Terry Stop. Terry v. Ohio.

Look at KSA 22-2402: Stopping of suspect. (1) Without making an arrest, a law enforcement officer may stop any person in a public place whom such officer reasonably suspects is committing, has committed or is about to commit a crime and may demand of the name, address of such suspect and an explanation of such suspect's actions.

macon47 4 years, 1 month ago

these kids have a consitutional right to drive drunk they are from ku, rock chalk if they kill some one , they get a weekend in jail

the police are just picking on them with the id bust, how else are they gonna get drunk"

Truami 4 years, 1 month ago

"...consequences for breaking the law...." - Mini Kaur Dear Miss Co-chair, consequences for drinking or consequences for lieing are much more important than the law. If you hadn't noticed, a lot of the laws we have in this country are unjust. I believe you should focus on the issues rather than on the law.

Thank you

-Christopher

jbiegs 4 years, 1 month ago

RT, sure fake ID's allow underage kids to purchase alcohol, but do you really think they have no other means of obtaining alcohol? Get real, everyone knows how easy it is to get alcohol underage. I appreciate your concern for drunk drivers but you are off point. Taking fake ID's does nothing to address that problem.

oneeye_wilbur 4 years, 1 month ago

So what were the 35 "establishments", that were checked? How many had fake IDs or were the five all at one place?

oneeye_wilbur 4 years, 1 month ago

So what were the 35 "establishments", that were checked? How many had fake IDs or were the five all at one place?

1029 4 years, 1 month ago

This article is right on about spring break and how "students sometimes travel abroad, obtain fake IDs and then bring them back with them". It's well-known that Mexico is the place to go if you want a really good fake ID because their computer technology is so much more advanced than ours is.

Steven Gaudreau 4 years, 1 month ago

rt, 'If all the ifs and buts were candy and nuts, what a wonderful Christmas it would be.'” ...

Thinking_Out_Loud 4 years, 1 month ago

vinny1, both checkpoints and ID checks in establishments that sell alcohol have been upheld by courts. The probable cause argument has been made, considered, and determinations made that this activity does not violate probable cause. The threshold for probable cause is pretty low, I think the courts say "substantial chance" or something to that effect. Which doesn't even have to be better than 50/50--just substantial. If you disagree with the Supreme Courts' rulings, it's as simple as lobbying your legislator to make Kansas law more prohibitive of ID checks and checkpoints than Federal law allows. Or to lobby your Congressperson for a Federal law to the same effect.

tange 4 years, 1 month ago

All IDs are fake.

oneeye_wilbur 4 years, 1 month ago

Only 5 in 35 drinking establishments? Why waste the manpower?

Richard Payton 4 years, 1 month ago

jbiegs if one of the five citations kept a drunk young driver from killing you and preventing that person from vehicle homicide would it still be a waste of time and money? Fake Id's allow young people to break the law and the police are inforcing the law. Great work by the officers!

Ceallach 4 years, 1 month ago

You know it, Blessed :)

Steven Gaudreau 4 years, 1 month ago

A grant from the state is used and yes it is a waste of our $$.

Brad Maestas 4 years, 1 month ago

Why is it some wisea** has to post something about K2 in every story. Fake herb. Lame story. Move on.

+1 on wondering if they went to the renowned underage bars. Most places on the strip do a good job of self-policing but there are some good fake ID's out there.

macon47 4 years, 1 month ago

Don't they have anything better to do?

like chasing non ku drunk drivers and dopers?

get your priorities straight what do you want them to do help old ladies across the street??t ayig

brs14ku 4 years, 1 month ago

@jbiegs It's one of those projects that may not result in a lot of revenue but will hopefully have immeasurable benefit in keeping underage drinking out of bars and in dangerous house party situations lol

jbiegs 4 years, 1 month ago

Does anyone else think this was a waste of time and manpower? Nine officers targeted 35 places and issued 5 citations? Don't they have anything better to do?

brs14ku 4 years, 1 month ago

They went to Johnny's North. That place was empty as hell and everyone knew why.

Also, nobody would snitch on the makers because most of the time the "makers" are the state. I bet 1/2 the fakes I've seen are legit ID's but for other people instead of the person using it.

nobody1793 4 years, 1 month ago

"Local law enforcement agencies conducted the first of four planned fake ID stings in Lawrence on Monday night, the same night the Kansas University men’s basketball team played Oklahoma in front of a national TV audience."

This seems like a really weird pairing of facts...unless...perhaps KUAC is behind the manufacture of fake IDs?

gsxr600 4 years, 1 month ago

Did they go to the Hawk? 30%+ are underage.

Blessed4x 4 years, 1 month ago

Ceallach (anonymous) says...

"After the four fake ID stings are completed, when will the real ID stings begin?"

That is exactly how I read the title! Ah, great minds think alike!

beawolf 4 years, 1 month ago

denak, Yes, they can. In the same manner a bouncer, waitress, bartender, etc. etc. can ask. You are in an establishment that requires proof of ID.

Somedude20, No comment. Your posts speak for themselves.

Ceallach 4 years, 1 month ago

After the four fake ID stings are completed, when will the real ID stings begin?

macon47 4 years, 1 month ago

hey they are ku students give them a break

big deal if they run over someone and kill them on the way home they have rights

they can just drive off and show up the next day and the da will give them a couple of weekends in jail

it is all about rights, driving drunk is a privlege if you are a ku student the cops cant do anything

Vinny1 4 years, 1 month ago

Somedude20 -

I completely agree with you, but don't worry, the cops will do what they please.

They have no right to stop and question people during a dui checkpoint either, but they do. It completely negates "probable cause" laws.

somedude20 4 years, 1 month ago

so cops can just demand to see id's for no other reason than the person looked young? I would not say that I am brain dead but I will say that you are acting like a punk with your remark but that is ok. What scares me is that you are responsible for raising a child. I hope you were kidding!