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Archive for Monday, August 30, 2010

Veterans group endorses Brownback for governor

August 30, 2010, 8:07 a.m. Updated August 30, 2010, 11:31 a.m.


— A group of Kansas retired military members has endorsed Republican Sam Brownback for governor.

The veterans say Brownback, currently a U.S. senator, understands the challenges facing former members of the military.

Brownback's campaign announced the formation of the group "Veterans for Brownback" last week.

Among its 10 co-chairman are retired Lt. Gen. Robert Arter of Leavenworth and retired Lt. Gen. Dick Seitz of Junction City, who served in World War II and Vietnam.

Brownback faces Democratic state Sen. Tom Holland of Baldwin City in the November election.

Holland's campaign said Monday that Brownback has a weak record on veteran's issues, accusing him of siding with special interests over military personnel.


yourworstnightmare 5 years, 2 months ago

"Brownback's campaign announced formation of the group "Veterans for Brownback" last week."

So, his campaign organizes the group and a week later they endorse him. Shocking.

Sadly, most people will just read the headline, Brownback realizes his constituents are stupid and that this sort of thing is effective (if not dishonest).

pusscanthropus 5 years, 2 months ago

Yes, unfortunately, Brownback can count on "dumbed-down" Kansans to support him. I heard that most of the Kansas legislators don't even have bachelor's degrees? Is that true??

Watch "Kansas vs Darwin" if you want to see some home-grown Kansas ignorance!

CreatureComforts 5 years, 2 months ago

If degrees automatically meant smart, Lawrence would be a lot smarter than it is...

I know far too many people with PhDs who are idiots, and many with no degree who are very smart...having or not having a degree doesn't guarantee anything...

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 2 months ago

Jealous much?

Having a degree does not guarantee smartness, but it certainly shifts the curve.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

"I heard that most of the Kansas legislators don't even have bachelor's degrees?"

Nearly half the founding fathers who attended the Constitutional Convention didn't, either.

It never ceases to amaze me how the supposedly 'smart' folks in Lawrence always think the decisions should be made by somebody they think is smarter than the rest of us.' That guy went to Harvard so he'd be a good president.' What happened to a government not only for the people, but OF the people? When did we decide that people can't make decisions in their own best interests, and we have to elect those 'smart' folks to tell us what's best for us?

gccs14r 5 years, 2 months ago

That's the problem--people voting based on what's best for themselves, instead of what's best for the country. Absolutely we should implore our best and brightest to represent us, instead of sending a guy with good hair, a fat checkbook, and his own marketing department, or worse, Joe Blow who can't find Kansas on a labeled map. The Founders created a Republic for a reason.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

Not sure if you were agreeing or not. But the paternalistic belief that the 'best and brightest' should represent us is an oxymoron. I know it's an old joke, but half the population is below average intelligence. The 'best and brightest', by definition, are not representative of 'us'.

How do you separate what's best for the country from what's best for its people? Those people are not all the best and brightest. And they're not all those 'perfect' people who could withstand the vetting process political candidates endure. When is the last time someone was elected to public office that was unemployed, that hadn't paid their bills, that had a felony conviction for a mistake they made 30 years ago? What elected official is 'representative' of them?

There are farmers in this country without the formal education of the 'best and brightest' but whose families have been making a living from the same piece of land since before state lines were drawn. There are people without a high school diploma who operate their own business well enough to pay their bills and take care of their families. They may not have a law degree, or a degree in accounting or finance, but they know how tax law affects them, their businesses, their families, and their neighbors. Why shouldn't one of them be sitting at the table making the decisions?

Yes, I realize that it mucks up the whole thing when one person only looks out for what is in HIS best interests. When I said "their own best interests" I meant that in the plural form. The people of Douglas County, the people of Kansas, the people of the United States, we know what is in OUR best interests. We don't need the 'best and brightest' to tell us what those interests should be.

gccs14r 5 years, 2 months ago

That's your opinion. We humans occupy a very tiny rock in the Universe, and the sooner we quit thinking of each other as the enemy and thinking of some other place on this planet as "away", the better off we'll be. It's detrimental to all of us if some yokel gets elected and votes on proposed legislation based on the wants of only his constituency without regard for the planet as a whole. It's far better for someone with an actual world view (and a formal education to back it up) to make those decisions regardless of the short-term consequences to the folks who put him there.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

Again, I may not be making my point too clearly. I'm not saying that it should be every representative out for only their constituents any more than it should be every person only out for themselves. But the world you're referring to is made up of people. And those people should be making the decisions. Not individual decisions for each and every one of them, but collectively what's in everyone's best interests. If you select some kind of elite group, whether it's because they're more highly educated, have more money, or have a better hairstyle, that elite group is not representative OF the people. They may be able to do what's best for everyone, for the common, average person (all of them). But shouldn't the voice of those common, average people be heard in the decision-making process?

gccs14r 5 years, 2 months ago

Sure, listen to the people, but have the education and experience to objectively evaluate what the people are saying. Just because a majority of the people want something doesn't mean they should get it.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

Education/experience and the ability to reason are independent variables. While there most certainly are institutions and teachers that teach how to think, there are also vast numbers that teach what to think. In my own collegiate career, I have had the good fortune to know many excellent teachers who expected their students to be able to gather, analyze, and make sound judgments (and defend them) on a collection of data, regardless of what that data pertained to. I have also had the misfortune of knowing far too many that did nothing but spew data and expect their students to diligently record it and regurgitate it. (I was once forced to retake a course I had had to drop in mid-semester - I still had my notes from the first go-around, and the next semester's lectures were, quite literally, word-for-word what I already had in my notes.) While a quality education is undeniably a good thing to have, I think we all know that it is completely possible to get out of school with that sheepskin having done nothing but memorize (temporarily) a collection of facts and recite them on command.

Is it your contention that an elected official can possibly be educated on the facts pertaining to every issue he or she will face if elected? Agriculture, health, finance, defense, technology, transportation, energy ...

Wasn't the argument that Obama would make an acceptable commander-in-chief that while he didn't have military experience, he had advisers, and his job was to listen to the experts and make the decisions? Did his Harvard education include anything on military theory?

In this country, gcc, it is a daily occurrence that life-and-death decisions are made by just plain folks. It's called a jury of your peers. The men and women that sit in judgment of an accused murderer have no special education or knowledge of firearms or ballistics, of medicine, or forensics, or psychology, not even of the law. There is no education requirement for sitting on a jury, there is no intelligence or aptitude test to pass. We trust those just-plain-folks to listen to the facts and the opinions of the experts, to analyze it all, and to come to a decision. Why is that so fundamentally different from the way we do should it in the other two branches of government?

I'd much rather have a smart person with a sixth grade education making the decisions than an idiot with a PhD.

gccs14r 5 years, 2 months ago

"There is no education requirement for sitting on a jury, there is no intelligence or aptitude test to pass. We trust those just-plain-folks to listen to the facts and the opinions of the experts, to analyze it all, and to come to a decision."

And that's wrong. They can be swayed by emotion, by courtroom theatrics, or by preconceived notions of guilt or innocence. It would be better to be judged by a panel of judges, all of whom would be required to have a law degree and lots of experience. The idea of a jury of one's peers is fine in theory, but I think the folks who set up that model did not anticipate just how complex the world and the law would become.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

That's WRONG??? Are you serious? Really? Wow!

It's bad enough you think there should be some sort of intellectual elite that make the laws for us, but you think they should be sitting in judgment of us, too? Do you have the slightest idea of what that kind of thinking leads to?

Why half-measures, gcc? What the heck, how about an educational requirement, or at least an IQ test, to vote? And why stop there? Heck, let's just scrap our entire system, and establish an elite aristocracy, a new ruling class?

At least I know further discussion is pointless. I apologize for the outburst, I've actually been trying to be restrained tonight, but a jury of one's peers is "wrong"?????

Just ... WOW!

blindrabbit 5 years, 2 months ago

Another Vietnam Republican veteran that will not be voting for Smilin Sam.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

And what is the implication of those dismissing this group that endorses Brownback so flippantly?

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

Really? Nobody is questioning the integrity of the veterans who formed this group by insinuating Brownback set them up as window dressing?

While some are veiling it in more pleasant terms, there are posts on both sides saying essentially the same thing: 'I don't care if you're a veteran, you don't have the best interests of the country in mind if you disagree with MY political views.'

overthemoon 5 years, 2 months ago

Party unity and purity are but a few of the signs of a fascist totalitarian system....why no diversity in the republican party and its corporate founded and funded astroturf affiliates these days?

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

Tell me something, moon: How many Democrats voted against Obamacare? How many ever do anything but vote the party line?

Why is it that when Democrats stick together it's solidarity and unity of purpose, and when Republicans do it's fascist totalitarianism?

gccs14r 5 years, 2 months ago

When the Democrats agree on something it's a surprise. It's a surprise when the Republicans disagree on something.

Kontum1972 5 years, 2 months ago

he spends alot of time @ ft 11worth having lunch....

Kontum1972 5 years, 2 months ago

Nam vet here too...#4...not getting mine either

BigAl 5 years, 2 months ago

Add me to the list. #5. Brownback won't get my vote either.

Alceste 5 years, 2 months ago

Hydra: One useless man is a shame. Two useless men are a law firm. Four useless men is a congress. It does appear that Brownback's already got him that congress....

And I make #5 Viet Vet who knows only a dumbed down Kansas hick will vote for Brownback....

overthemoon 5 years, 2 months ago

You suggest that only your 'side' is truly American? THAT is a blasphemous attack on the very core of American values. How dare you! Your complete lack of understanding of history, current events, and the American values you try to co opt shows in every single post.

And those stupid 'work hard/moocher' talk points are so totally off base and DO NOT describe the progressive, liberal, centrist agendas.

remember_username 5 years, 2 months ago

Wow, remember how the "liberals" of the period treated servicemen during the Vietnam War? Isn't it a little weird to hear a "conservative" like this lawrencegy40 do the same now?

Tell me lawrenceguy40 - in your opinion are those who have never risked life in the service of this country to be considered "bums and moochers" for reaping the rewards others have "earned"? Well I for one say that you have a right to your opinion without my calling you out as a traitor, but then I'm just a bleeding heart liberal veteran.

trinity 5 years, 2 months ago

my hubby will be #7, gladly...he can't go the thought of brownback at all.

jdogtree 5 years, 2 months ago

Make it #8. Hey, looks like Tom has a Vets Group of his own!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 2 months ago

The real question here is why vets would have any special knowledge or expertise about who ought to be governor of Kansas.

Have the other vet groups (as in the veterinary organizations) come out with their endorsements? They would be equally unedifying.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

Well, let's see, boohoohoozo: I don't know why I bother as what I'm about to say is a completely alien concept to you, but their opinion is respected because they, themselves, are respected, because they are men and women of character who have served their country. [I apologize for using a lot of words you have never heard and couldn't possibly understand.]

Also, Herr Klowne, as I mentioned above, perhaps it's time we stopped letting the 'experts' tell us who we should vote for.

jonas_opines 5 years, 2 months ago

You heard it here first. You either vote for Brownback, or you're turning your back on your country.

LG40: Legitimate buffoon or Poe's Law in action? We'll never know.

Danimal 5 years, 2 months ago

This Iraq vet doesn't endorse Brownback. Brownback voted against the new GI Bill two years ago, that's all anyone needs to know. Forming his own veterans group is probably the only way Brownback could get endorsed by a veterans group, and a totally unnecessary political play. The Kansas governors election isn't going to be decided by track records and positions on veterans issues, but it is a quick way to try and win some cheap political points.

overthemoon 5 years, 2 months ago

This is a veteran who understood why he fought in WWII. I dare any one to challenge his patriotism and to say his statement is in any way unAmerican.

centrist1 5 years, 2 months ago

Vietnam era veteran here Sam Brownieback is not getting my vote...

salad 5 years, 2 months ago

Did Brownback ever serve in the Military? I didn't think he did. Does anyone know if he has a service record?

centrist1 5 years, 2 months ago

Brownback has no Military background.......... besides they won't enlist nazis......

overthemoon 5 years, 2 months ago

He was saving his lily white patooty for 'higher service'

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

And the community-organizer-in-chief did what, again?

overthemoon 5 years, 2 months ago

I "believe" in none of those because they are factually incorrect, made up to scare people who will "believe" utter nonsense.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

To all those who accused Brownback of forming the group to endorse him, while the wording is awkward, I don't think it says Brownback formed the group. It says his campaign announced the formation of the group. I've seen the same story online with the headline "Veterans Form Group to Support Brownback".

As for all those who say they're not voting for him, guess what - pretty sure he wasn't counting on many votes from Larryville anyway. And all of you can take your snotty and undeserved elitism and put it somewhere uncomfortable. Brownback will be the next governor, because he represents the views of the people of the state - most of whom also couldn't care less about the opinions coming from Larryville.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

And yet an overwhelming portion of the electorate in this state DOES want Brownback for governor.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

You REALLY need to take my advice and do something about your reading comprehension.

It says the campaign (which yes, presumably includes Brownback himself) announced the group's formation, it does not say they formed it themselves. Here's a clue: When the weatherman announces the formation of a storm system, they really aren't responsible for its creation.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

'Cause you're always good for a laugh, eddie.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

My, what a witty retort. Another example of the intellectual superiority of Lawrencians, I presume?

rhd99 5 years, 2 months ago

Hmm, let's think about this for a moment, shall we? They or those of you who call Brownback useless, think about this: When healthcare reform was SHOVED down our throats by the Pelosi WONKS, what exactly did she say? Well, we need to pass this reform bill so we can read what's in it...Baloney!!! Oh, and do-nothing Dennis (Moore, that is from our very own 3rd district) did not read the stinken bill, did he? Useless politicians? Does the name Nancy PELOSI ring a bell? How 'bout Dennis do-nothing Moore? Well, enjoy the kool-aid, suckers! Hahahahahahahaha!

overthemoon 5 years, 2 months ago

You are forgetting that Obama and the Majority party in both houses were elected by THE MAJORITY of voters to do exactly what we elected them to do. You can twist that anyway you want, but that's how a democratic republic works.

Now. Did you vote for GWB so we could have a war in Iraq? Did GWB bypass the constitution when initiating a war for which he was not authorized to start (the senate authorized further investigation into WMD's). Did you vote to kill 5000 americans in the name of a useless and endless war?

And what IS that fascination with things getting shoved down your throat?

fabian_zimbabwe 5 years, 2 months ago

I have to admit, the bumper sticker I saw this weekend summed things up quite well: "I'm George W. Bush, and I approved this mess."

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

"You are forgetting that Obama and the Majority party in both houses were elected by the majority of voters to do exactly what we elected them to do. You can twist that anyway you want, but that's how a democratic republic works. "

And after seeing what they are trying to do, they've changed their minds. That's how a democratic republic works, too.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

I was responding to overthemoon (the part of his post that I quoted probably should have clued you in on that) and that was the term he used. And, incidentally, most people would describe our form of government as a democratic republic, which is not the same thing as a democracy.

Richard Heckler 5 years, 2 months ago

I believe the title should have read " a small group of military officers endorsed Brownback.

Their opinions may not be reflective Veterans organizations such as Vets Against the Iraq War,Veterans Against War etc etc.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

Are YOU saying that any elected official ANYWHERE is going to make everyone happy with their decisions? What color is the sky on your planet?

I'm saying that the views expressed by the fine folks of Larryville are for the most part irrelevant. If you want someone to represent the people of Lawrence, vote for the mayoral and council candidates you like. The rest of us want a governor who represents the state, not Larryville.

blindrabbit 5 years, 2 months ago

Notajayhawk: Looking at you sign-on image, it reminds me of a Yukon or a UConn Husky. If it is UConn, you have already besmirched us enough with Lew Perkins.

irvan moore 5 years, 2 months ago

another Viet Nam vet not for Brownback, oh, i don't have a college degree, am kind of in the middle on most issues and have trouble understanding why someone would attack others for not being on the same side of an issue. not supporting a far right conservitive doesn't mean you are a liberal, doesn't mean you support a mosque in new york, or that you are less of an American. Feel free to exercise your right to vote for the candidate of your choice and be proud to be an American.

BigAl 5 years, 2 months ago

+1. I couldn't have said it better. Some of these fine folks are so far to the right that it doesn't matter. Either agree with them or you are a socialist Nazi. The far-left isn't any better. I never understand that kind of thinking. But as a Veteran, I am glad they have that right.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

"In a representative democracy, people deserve to be represented by their elected officials."

And you are. You get the small handful of state senators and representatives that your population is entitled to. But see, we only get one governor at a time. And we're one state. And sometimes that one governor has to make decisions for that whole state based on what's in the best interests of most of the people in that state. And I hate to point out the obvious, but Obama - who also, I believe, claimed he would cut down on the partisanship in government - sure as he is not representing MY interests.

"Of course, no decision is going to be popular with everyone, but to consistently ignore the views of a sizable group, even if that group is a minority, is pathetic. Or un-American. And last I checked, people who live in Lawrence are Kansans and Americans, although by your and LG40’s definition, I guess were not “real” Americans. "

I said no such thing. The rights of a minority are protected by the state's Constitution. But as long as the legislation and administrative policies of our elected government are not contrary to that Constitution, the minority does not get to decide them for the rest of us.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

Tell you what, PFC - let's try an example. Let's say someone wants to build, oh, say, a nuclear power plant in western Kansas. And let's say the majority of Kansans (you know, those outside of Lawrence) want that plant built. But the minority (you know, those IN Lawrence) don't want it built.

Why don't you give us all the solution to that problem, where a single state government, setting policy for the one, unified, entire state, can set policy or enact laws that represent the preferences of both that majority and that minority.

blindrabbit 5 years, 2 months ago

Rockchalk: Pick up a copies of "What's the Matter with Kansas" and "The Family"; and read both with an open mind. Then see if you continue to support your posts.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

And what book is going to tell you what you think next week, blind?

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

notajayhawk 5 years, 2 months ago

Awww, eddie got offended again.

Read my post again. I said you shouldn't let books tell you what you think.

overthemoon 5 years, 2 months ago

Ought to throw "Crazy for God" in the pile to round out the mix.

blindrabbit 5 years, 2 months ago

I am a reformed Republican; or better yet, when the GOP lost it's way and became like the Old Democratic South of the pre-1960's, I baled!. Moderates and Progressives in the GOP were left to find a new home. Rockchalk; your cute comments about Lawrence is humorous; I hope you read at least on of the mentioned books, I've read both. Smilin Sam will no-doubt win the Governor seat; but that does not divert the truth about his warped religious agenda.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 5 years, 2 months ago

Mybe some "republican veterans" support Brownback, but not this VietNam Vet. I don't like this guy, he was a poor Senator, he will just try to use the office as a springboard to run for President again, and will do Kansas no good. Forget this political wonk.

rhd99 5 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

overthemoon 5 years, 2 months ago

Nobody is telling you what to do with your insurance. By the way "wonk" is a term that describes people who are nerdily expert in their field. Is that what you want to say? They' be flattered.

rhd99 5 years, 2 months ago

overthemoon, THANK YOU for your understanding and for your help in correcting this slight oversight. These six "LOSERS" want my flattery? They know NOTHING about fixing our health care system, NOTHING. They are NOT experts in this field. They want my flattery? It's going to cost them BIG!

davidsmom 5 years, 2 months ago

The article doesn't say that Brownback's campaign formed the group; it says his campaign announced the formation of the group.

rhd99 5 years, 2 months ago

Everyone, yes U as well ljworld, sorry for what seemed to be referenced as a comment violating terms of use. I will not apologize however for my disdain for people in government who THINK they know what's best for our nation. They DON'T. I hope I'm wrong, but Obama and his administration and this Congress are taking us down the wrong path. We don't need government telling us how to handle our health insurance affairs. Some of you told me that government is not doing that. They can't even take care of the veterans PROPERLY. Have you read the health care bill? Pelosi didn't, Do-nothing-Dennis (Moore) didn't. We don't need legislators to pass bills just so they can read them. Socialism in this country will not stand.

Anne Bracker 5 years, 2 months ago

To all the Vets who left comments: You fought to protect the freedom to choose and the freedom to publicly opine for everyone - regardless of politics, religion, personal preferences, etc.
Thank you.

I rarely post on LJ World anymore - most of the posts are by a very small group of people who seem to have nothing to do besides leaving copious comments on pretty much any and every topic. I spot-checked the comment counts of people who have left comments just on this article - I quit counting after the total reached 40,000 combined comments. Yes, some people have been posting for more than 5 years, but when multiple people have post counts over 10,000 each in that time frame, that's an awful lot of bloviating. Especially when it comes from someone who prefers anonymity to post instead of taking 2 minutes to confirm their identity.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 2 months ago

What's your point, Anne?

I believe that anyone who posts on this, or any other similar online forum, and thinks they are doing something "serious" or "important" is seriously deluded. (there really are useful online forums, but that's another topic.)

I'm one of those posters with a lot of posts over the last five years, but I see it as a form of entertainment. I'm self-employed, so I generally set my own schedule. Much of that schedule includes work on the computer, which makes it easy to engage in these little conversations. I also don't watch much television, so instead of the time the "average" person spends in front of the boob tube, I spend some of it here, where it's at least interactive, if not particularly constructive.

My main point is that if you want to play with us, welcome. If you want to reform us, you're definitely tilting at windmills.

blindrabbit 5 years, 2 months ago

Jayhawkanne: I do not mind being identified when I comment in a group of people meeting face to face (as you would identified anyway), However, when commenting on serious topics that cut across political and moral issues with an unknown audience, I am more careful. For one, I would assume that many posters are somewhat reclusive and perhaps antisocial and also reactionary. Also, I try to be on-subject; many times I think many posters drift off-subject and perhaps many are shills just trying to ramp up emotions.

As we are warned to be careful to use facebook, texting, etc., I think it is likewise wise to be careful here

jonas_opines 5 years, 2 months ago

I've generally been of the opinion that knowing someone's name does not make them any less anonymous.

Alceste 5 years, 2 months ago

"With a heavy dose of fear and violence, and a lot of money for projects, I think we can convince these people that we are here to help them."

Lt. Col Nathan Sassman

danmartinez 5 years, 2 months ago

I am a Vietnam veteran and I am NOT, NOT, NOT voting for a coward like Sam Brownback. I am use to losing but I will not give up my integrity and honor just because Brownback has the people of Kansas fooled. I am a “write in” for Joan Heffington for Kansas Governor. I do not jump ship or run when things get tough. Brownback is a loser and will always be a loser. I ask ALL Vietnam veterans to stand there ground as Joan Heffington's father did when he was killed in Vietnam. Us Vietnams Veterans stay together. We know what politics has done to us. It cost us over 55,000 soldier’s lives. Hear Joan’s video on Brownback fraud and corruption on you tube.

You Tube Hyperlink

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