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Archive for Wednesday, August 25, 2010

Lawrence man arrested after spanking child

August 25, 2010

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A 33-year-old Lawrence man was arrested about noon Tuesday in relation to an incident from Aug. 14. According to a Lawrence police spokesperson, the man spanked his 4-year-old child with a belt, which left bruises. The man was booked into the Douglas County Jail on one charge of aggravated battery.

Comments

smitty 4 years, 4 months ago

That's not a spanking.....that's a beating.

Kris_H 4 years, 4 months ago

That's right. A four-year-old? C'mon! If the flat of your hand on his butt doesn't work you need to rethink a few things.

Cait McKnelly 4 years, 4 months ago

Wow! Really?? I have reported my ex and his current wife at least twice for the same thing and I was told it was "parental chastisement" and none of my business (despite the fact that these were my kids too and I had joint custody). A week after my daughter's 18th birthday her stepmother attacked her in the way she always had. My daughter called 911 and they booked the b***h for assault and domestic violence. Funny how just a few days can make such a difference.

think_about_it 4 years, 4 months ago

Wow cait, you're divorced? Whoda thunk it.

Cait McKnelly 4 years, 4 months ago

Actually, I'm remarried and have been for years and years. And at least I've been married :P

jafs 4 years, 4 months ago

Yes, it makes no sense to me.

Battery on an adult who has a reasonable chance of defending themselves is a crime, but beating your children, who have much less of a chance of defending themselves isn't?

notajayhawk 4 years, 4 months ago

It wasn't the timing, it was who reported it. SRS, just like DFS in Missouri, and the police in both states, are loathe to get involved in any case where one former spouse accuses the other of mistreating the children. Which is stupid, but that's the way it's always been.

Amy Heeter 4 years, 4 months ago

What would make a person feel the need to use a belt. 4 year olds are pretty receptive to redirection.

imastinker 4 years, 4 months ago

While I agree with the belt comment - have you ever been near a four year old?

4 years, 4 months ago

Yes. Using a belt never crossed my mind. In fact, I agree with artichoke, redirection is amazingly effective.

TheYetiSpeaks 4 years, 4 months ago

Um.....apparently you aren't around a great variety of 4 year olds.

Amy Heeter 4 years, 4 months ago

I'v been around plenty of 4 year olds and I have never had to hit them with a belt, hand or anything else.

seriouscat 4 years, 4 months ago

Agreed about the headline. Leaving bruises is beating, not spanking.

Alceste 4 years, 4 months ago

That's a fine way to help an errant parent. Now the child has no daddy? Yes, use of the belt is flat out wrong, but arresting the guy and locking him up doesn't help the situation any.

I will bet money, too, that the daddy is a marginal wage earner and struggling financially. The wealthy beat their children regularly but somehow avoid the scrutinization of the policing authorities. I'll bet it was a real positive experience, also, for the offspring to see daddy hauled off to the hoosegal in handcuffs: Every bit as traumatizing as being on the receiving end of that belt which, again, I do not condone in any way, shape, or form.

Once again, the male is marginalized and the female dominated and controlled "helping community" moves forward. See: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135 The End of Men by Hanna Rosin

Funny how "services", e.g. parenting classes and therapy, are not utilized for the bad man.....good grief....

totealongshaker1 4 years, 4 months ago

i'm confused as to how you concluded/think
1.) the child now has no daddy. it's not like the guy is in Leavenworth and will never be allowed to see his kid again 2.) he was arrested in front of the child. although i absolutely agree that would be a tramatic thing for a child to see, the article doesn't indicate that was the case 3.) the bad man has not already utilized services and/or will not be offered services through the court and SRS. i would be shocked if the court didn't order the services you suggested. but that's just my conclusion

JustNoticed 4 years, 4 months ago

It's "scrutiny" they avoid. No need to twist that into "scrutinization". And please forgive me for correctifying you.

rogueokie 4 years, 4 months ago

I do agree with Alceste on one point, wealthy people get away with just this sort of thing all the time, poor parents have the state up your butt from day the child is born.
He will certainly be offered classes and other services, unless of course, this isnt his first rodeo.

yankeevet 4 years, 4 months ago

Excessive use of force........perhaps a belt too the parents behind would be appropriate.....

kernal 4 years, 4 months ago

The parent who is a child beater, raises a child beater.

I don' t know why the LJW person who wrote this story would consider taking a belt to a four year old the same as a spanking. Something wrong with that thinking.

Graczyk 4 years, 4 months ago

"The parent who is a child beater, raises a child beater."

That's not exactly true. It doesn't sound like Consumer 1 is a child beater. We do know that adult abusers experienced abuse in their childhood at higher rates than non-abusers, but the relationship is not one to one. Let's just try to control the hyperbole.

Steve Jacob 4 years, 4 months ago

If you go to sunflower on demand, go to F/X and see Louie #9. It was a powerful "skit" about abuse. Basically, an 18 year old threaten him. He followed the kid home, and told his parents. His father hit the kid, Louie screamed at the guy maybe that's why the kid's abusive. The guy throw Louie out of his house. But a couple minutes later, the father came out, him and Louie shared a smoke. He said his father hit him, and his father hit him, and so on.

Graczyk 4 years, 4 months ago

I'm not sure what Louie is, but assuming it's some sort of documentary, it only represents one case - not the rule. The fact is that not all abused children go one to become abusers. Not sure what you are trying to say with this example.

Child abuse is a horrible crime. My point is that we should not spread misinformation.

trinity 4 years, 4 months ago

i totally agree-this headline is really off base&needs to be changed!!! jeesh, ljw....spanking, beating with a belt the same??? i think not!!!

Irenaku 4 years, 4 months ago

I agree as well: LJW, change the headline! I mean, I know it might draw attention, but it is a bit sensationalistic and VERY misleading.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

Beating kids is not raising them-- it's just beating them (whether it's a "spanking" or with a belt.)

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

I think we know what happened to whatever powers of reasoning you might have had.

Cait McKnelly 4 years, 4 months ago

Oh for gawds sake. We have that old BS going again? Abortion is NOT "killing babies". Get over it.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

I think it's weird that when I stated my opinion above, you responded by saying that I needed to be beaten as a child (and presumably, you still think I need a good whuppin.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

With people like you in the world, it's easy to see why for many that is an attractive option.

ksb 4 years, 4 months ago

Agreed. Why is it acceptable to hit a small, defenseless child -- no matter the intent, no matter the reason, no matter the force -- when it is clearly unacceptable to do so to another adult? Hypocrisy. (And so, so sad.)

grammaddy 4 years, 4 months ago

I would rather go to jail for spanking my children, than have them go to jail because I didn't. I agree that the belt was too much, and leaving marks constitutes a beating, not a spanking. I bet it was the marks on the child that got him arrested.Most times SRS will tell you that you should NOT physically discipline your child but what can they do if there are no marks.I agree that no one has the right to tell someone how to raise their kids.Sometimes parents are too afraid of SRS to discipline their kids.Mine threatened to call SRS a couple of times when they knew they were in the wrong and afraid of the consequences. I always told them they better beat me to the phone.

ksb 4 years, 4 months ago

"I would rather go to jail for spanking my children, than have them go to jail because I didn't."

I love that one. What a fantastic reason to hit small, defenseless children. Nice.

4everahawk 4 years, 4 months ago

I believe a little spat on the rear end to get their attention when words aren't working is OK, but using any kind of 'instrument' constitutes a beating in my mind. The game of 'snapping' a towel on someone in fun can leave a huge welt so imagine what a belt can do! This kind of discipline can only have bad results for both the child and the parent. Most parents have probably wanted to spank children with really bad and out of control behavior, but thankfully most are able to step back and find an alternate means of discipline.

kef104 4 years, 4 months ago

Grammaddy,

I seriously hope your child rearing days are over. I have the best behaved child and have never felt a need to hit him. He is 3 1/2 and responds quite well to time outs, differential reinforcements, and natural consequences to behavior. He will even put himself in timeout when he knows he misbehaved. Those who say time outs do not work, simply do not know how to do time outs. If you need help figuring it out, contact someone at K.U. in the Behavior Psychology department.

TheYetiSpeaks 4 years, 4 months ago

You ever heard the saying "what's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander"?

I know some kids that laugh in your timeouts' general direction.

mom_of_three 4 years, 4 months ago

Grammaddy spanked her kids, not whipped them. I doubt timeouts were even in vogue or used when her kids and when I was younger. I had friends who parents made them cut a switch from the tree. Different times, different methods.

Kontum1972 4 years, 4 months ago

i have never whipped my two sons.....didnt need too....sitting down and talking to them when they did something wrong ....worked perfectly.....one is 20 and the other 29.....both my sons are scholars...

Stuart Evans 4 years, 4 months ago

I took many of these type of beatings growing up. They ceased permanently when I was old enough to put the old man on his a%%. corporal punishment is a disgusting way to raise a child. It's left me introverted and unable to maintain a healthy relationship because I have trust issues. Being afraid of someone you are supposed to love can do a lot of damage.

2002 4 years, 4 months ago

There is more to this story, I am sure. But in general, using a belt and leaving bruises is an abusive act. The question is though, is it any more child abuse than a parent that ignores their child's poor behavior and provided no discipline? I think that the issue of child abuse is answered only by determining the parent's motivation.

Amy Heeter 4 years, 4 months ago

Wooden spoons and flysaters are considered child abuse.

garyr 4 years, 4 months ago

It's too bad for this kid. The man was probably raised the same way, and is going to pass it down to this 4 year old. Then, this four year old will end up beating their kid they have when they're 14 with a belt as well. Doesn't look like too bright of a future for this youngster, but who knows. My money's still on this 4 year old being a parent by the time their 14 and continuing the abuse cycle.

garyr 4 years, 4 months ago

bromidrosis, not to mention the wooden spoon and flyswatters, my mom also was known to take extension cords and flip flops to my backside. But, she would never aim for the booty, but right below it, almost like the hamstring.....OUCH!!!!!

alm77 4 years, 4 months ago

Oh, man! I forgot about the flip-flop! I got that one too. :D

I got spanked, with bare hands, flyswatters and flip-flops. Not only did I turn out okay, but I knew then and I know now that I deserved every spanking I got. My family was amazing and I had an exceedingly happy childhood. I'm glad they took the time to direct my behavior.

d_prowess 4 years, 4 months ago

JK is probably too busy with the rape article to worry about the title of this article. If there was ever an article that should have had the comments disabled on it, it was that one!

Cait McKnelly 4 years, 4 months ago

And while you're at it, sell your daughters into slavery, murder your neighbor for not properly sacrificing a bull to Yahweh and keep your wives covered and in control.

Amy Heeter 4 years, 4 months ago

Abuse includes cruel and inhuman corporal punishment. Sec. 21-3609.[Cr.]

verity 4 years, 4 months ago

When a parent lashes out in anger, physical or verbal, that is not discipline. That is just acting like an out-of-control child. It becomes a fight between two children and the bigger one wins. That's all it teaches---the more powerful one wins. Like some have mentioned above, the physical abuse ends when the child can whup the parent. The verbal maybe not so much.

Jimo 4 years, 4 months ago

Sounds to me like this was more of an emotional outburst from the parent than from the child.

Jimo 4 years, 4 months ago

Ummm......yeah. Did you read what I said?

????

IndusRiver 4 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

TheYetiSpeaks 4 years, 4 months ago

The preceding statement should read: "The government should take the child and give it to a person that will take care of it in the manner I see fit."

Before making any decisions about how to raise your children, please check with toe first.

2002 4 years, 4 months ago

Yes, the government is so much more capable (sarcasm implied). Spend a little time in the system, foster care, child services etc. then decide what constitutes the greater abuse.

izzybear 4 years, 4 months ago

i am guessing you have no children or you would never have made swuch a thoughtless comment. removing a 4 year old for 1 mind you 1 beating by the father not the mother is such a "smart" move. so for i mistake without the chance to change or explain or for the mother to do anything send the state in RIP THE CHILD FROM THE ONLY FAMILY AND PUT IT IN THE ARMS OFF A TOTAL STRANGER? i hope like crap YOU NEVER HAVE KIDS cause you are not thinking of the child but your own judgemental ideas.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 4 months ago

If you go on craigslist, you'll find that Mistress Ilsa will provide the same services to consenting adults for a modest fee. Don't forget your safe word.

izzybear 4 years, 4 months ago

i am so glad that you were present and you saw everything then you got a law degree and passed the bar and was made a judge all in how many months ? remember what the law says people i don't know what happened that day i was not there but he does deserve his day in court and people like you lableing based on what fact i really hope you have never done anything wrong or never made a mistake in your life or else you could face the same judgement.

IndusRiver 4 years, 4 months ago

In every way it can the JW cowtows to the Socialist's political agendas because the Socialists buy the paper. Otherwise, the LJW doesn't sell in my neighborhood.

Cait McKnelly 4 years, 4 months ago

Uh what??? Dolph Simons a socialist??? This is truly a ROFLMFAO

IndusRiver 4 years, 4 months ago

The government should take the child

The government will take the child and that's all the truth there is in that sentence. In about 40 - 45 years, this kid will be on Disability, housed at the Lawrence-Douglas County Housing Authority, and eating at LINK.

Guaranteed. At 4 years old all of the above have this child's entire lifetime to make their money off of.

It is guaranteed.

pizzapete 4 years, 4 months ago

Don't tell me, he found this kid on craigslist, right?

IndusRiver 4 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

IndusRiver 4 years, 4 months ago

I don't know what some of you thought you might get away with here. Some of you are as phony as two-dollar bills.

Cait McKnelly 4 years, 4 months ago

Two dollar bills exist, Indus. I actually have one. Now THREE dollar bills....

Amy Heeter 4 years, 4 months ago

I have 3 ,$2bills that my mom gave me. 1962, 1965 & 1976.

IndusRiver 4 years, 4 months ago

"We had never seen the belt, but we had heard about it. The belt was nine feet long, eight feet wide, and it had hooks on it and it would rip the meat off your body if it ever hit you..."

Would it beat the phony crap right out of you, too?

IndusRiver 4 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

IndusRiver 4 years, 4 months ago

No, I reckon not. No telling what benefits or freedoms the housing authority has bestowed upon you to win your favor all over again.

IndusRiver 4 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

IndusRiver 4 years, 4 months ago

Go apply for a job at the Lawrence-Journal World!

Cait McKnelly 4 years, 4 months ago

I have said a number of times that had I been raised the way I was in today's culture both of my parents would be in jail and my sisters and I in the foster system.

rogueokie 4 years, 4 months ago

I can say this about my family too. Every child in the home should have been removed, not by todays standards, but by the standards of that time. Sometimes the child protective sytem works, sometimes it reacts way to fast and hard, and sometimes it misses people completely.

.

notajayhawk 4 years, 4 months ago

I wish I had the time to go back and find the story - I really wonder how many of the perfect parents who would never spank a child are the same ones who b*d and moaned about the child crying in the checkout lane.

ferrislives 4 years, 4 months ago

From talking to friends over the years, I wasn't the only one spanked by a belt. It used to happen much more often in our society. I'm not saying what happened here was right, but I turned out ok. Now I use time out with my own kids, with an occasional spanking (with my bare hand) for major things. No marks left, but the point was made.

Armored_One 4 years, 4 months ago

I grew up an abused child, physically, mentally and emotionally.

This whole crap about "child beaters raise child beaters" is a total load of crap. Most abused children I know that are now parents are hesitant to even scold their kids, let alone apply the hand of knowledge to the seat of learning. Violence does not beget violence.

At any rate, 4 year olds are exceptionally easy to bruise. I was just horse playing with my daughter when she was 4 and she ended up with a hand-sized bruise on her chest. Did I smack her on the chest? No, I was picking her up over my head and letting her 'fly', hopefully preventing some of the fear of heights kids develop regularly. The state of Iowa, where my wife was living at the time, tried as hard as they could do lock me up for a couple of years until I had a dermatologist testify that the capillaries in a 4 year old's skin are about 5 times more fragile than they are in an adult. Bruising a tomato takes more effort.

A belt is a bit on the far side of the discipline line, but I'd rather the child be disciplined at an early age and hoave the fear of punishment instilled, rather than see another one of these coddled little brats get pushed out into society that have no concept of respect for their betters, less manners, and talk as if there will never be consequences for their words.

One of my son's friends was over at the house recent and just flat out went off on one of her parental units fr simply demanding to know where she was. I about jumped her ass for the language that she was using with her parents. Eddie Murphy used better language in "Raw" than this girl was using with her parents. After about an hour of explaining to her that her parents deserve better and giving her a list of things they deal with on a regular basis just so she can BE a kid, she called them up and apologized. I never suggested she apologized, just changed how she acted.

I've put hand to tail a few times with my daughter, and one good swat catches attention and rivets her to what I say. She rarely gets swatted twice for anything. All I have to do is ask her if she needs a sore tail and she knocks it off in short order.

Respect for authority, respect for her elders, manners and obeying the rules comes from having a reason to develop that habit. It is not a trait we are born knowing. It is taught. Stop preventing parents from teaching those lessons.

I called my mother a [expletive deleted] exactly one time. My mother didn't put me to the floor, nor did my father. My grandmother, all 5' 4" of her, went upside my head, put me to the floor and explained in no uncertain terms that you do NOT speak like that to your mother. I was 8 at the time, just turned 35 recently and have yet to ever call my mother that particular word again.

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