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Archive for Saturday, August 14, 2010

Obama defends plan for mosque near ground zero

August 14, 2010

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— President Barack Obama on Friday forcefully joined the national debate over construction of an Islamic complex near New York’s ground zero, telling guests at a White House dinner marking the holy month of Ramadan that opposing the project is at odds with American values.

“Let me be clear: as a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country,” Obama said, according to prepared remarks, at a White House iftar, the traditional breaking of the daily Ramadan fast.

“That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances,” he continued. “This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable.”

Obama expressed sympathy for the families of those killed in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks by al-Qaida terrorists purporting to act in the name of Islam. But he told the gathering that included Muslim and other religious leaders that blocking the mosque, as some leading Republicans have angrily demanded, would undermine the country’s claim to respect the free practice of religious expression.

The president’s statement puts him once again at the center of a cultural clash just as his party enters the final stretch of a difficult congressional campaign. Polls suggest that most Americans disagree with his position; a recent CNN poll found 68 percent opposed to building a mosque near the Sept. 11 site.

Obama, who has made repairing strained U.S. relations with the Islamic world a centerpiece of his presidency, had remained silent for months about the proposal to build the Muslim cultural complex in Lower Manhattan.

As proposed, the Islamic center, formally known as the Cordoba House, would rise 13 stories on land two blocks from the World Trade Center site. It would include a prayer room — the mosque component of the project — and “a Sept. 11 memorial and contemplation space.” The nonprofit Cordoba Initiative bought the property for $4 million and plans to spend $100 million on the complex.

A New York City planning commission unanimously struck down the final barrier to the project on Aug. 3 by refusing to grant the building that now stands on the site protection as a historic landmark. The existing structure was damaged by debris in the Sept. 11 attacks.

Comments

Snodgrass 4 years, 4 months ago

No kidding. He has an Arabic name. His two daddies were muslim. He hates Israel. He has released Islamic bad guys.

So what's to figure?

"Obama said at a White House dinner celebrating the Muslim holiday of Ramadan. “But let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances.”Having steered clear of the controversy for weeks, Obama took on opposition to the mosque directly — a move that many other Democratic lawmakers had been hesitant to do in the face of highly emotional appeals against its constrution."

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

So, do you think you could retrain him to share the same flavor of bigotry that you have, or is he just the wrong color?

ivalueamerica 4 years, 4 months ago

I find your comment very racist and un American.

monheim 4 years, 4 months ago

Yawwwwwnn. Come on, Tom. Since when were you afraid to say something? Or are you fishing for someone to properly guess at what you were getting at with that quote and then accuse them of putting words in your mouth? Speak up.

RiverCityConservative 4 years, 4 months ago

The President is right. His defense of freedom of religion as being at the heart of what it means to be an American is on target. Now I want to see him show the same gutsy nature in addressing other political issues, and complete his development into the leader those of us who voted him into office saw the potential for and have expected and have finally started to see more evidence of this year. It is beginning with a low rumble and growing in volume and intensity daily. The Republicans, who have squandered every opportunity to work together with their political opponents in statesmanlike fashion, are going to be chased out of Washington and can issue their fearmongering, offensive taunts from under the same rocks they crawled out of years ago. A new era of true democracy and an ascendant United States of America as a true world leader is beginning. Yes we can. Yes we can! Viva Barack Obama! Show us what you're made of. Show America its spirit is still alive.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 4 months ago

I realize, Tom, you oppose the Constitution, but that just makes you a traitor.

jafs 4 years, 4 months ago

Actually there are multiple understandings and interpretations of Sharia law, some of which would suggest that it can co-exist with our system, and some of which suggest the opposite.

Which is also probably true of Christianity.

oldvet 4 years, 4 months ago

I wonder if the NYFD companies that lost so many of their own will quickly respond to the mosque when the call comes in...

WhiteDog 4 years, 4 months ago

This is the single most offensive and disturbing thing I've ever read on one of these forums.

WHEN the call comes in? Because it's inevitable that the good Christian folk of this country are going to firebomb this place of religious worship and hope that the fire department takes as long as possible to respond so as many of the evil "others" die horrible deaths?

Who knew Osama Bin Laden was alive and well and living in Lawrence?

It's too bad you never learned what you were fighting for, oldvet.

oldvet 4 years, 4 months ago

Did I mention deaths... no. Did I mention "firebomb"... no. As usual, you want to jump to your far-left thinking and accuse others... I know darn well what I was fighting for and I also know darn well what I was fighting against... have you ever had to fight for anything?

WhiteDog 4 years, 4 months ago

OK then, to what call are you referring in your original post?

You're right. I absolutely did jump to the conclusion that it was a fire call you were referring to when you mentioned the fire department and all. Guess you're wondering if those brave heros will show up to save a Muslim cat stuck in a tree or something.

My bad.

Pete_Schweti 4 years, 4 months ago

Yea, there's a shocker. Our radical messiah standing up for those poor, unjustly oppressed Muslims.

(Hey "open-minded" people: Be sure and label me a "bigot" for this post. Seeing as how I don't share your world view, and all.)

monheim 4 years, 4 months ago

Then being oppressed or not has nothing to do with it. There is no legal basis to bar this group from creating this facility. That's it.

whats_going_on 4 years, 4 months ago

no one ever said they were "poor and opressed"

they have every right to do it.

GardenMomma 4 years, 4 months ago

And you know it is their plan to dedicate the mosque on the 10th anniversary of September 11th because.....

Please do cite a reliable source for this "plan" as I am curious to learn about it.

Zachary Stoltenberg 4 years, 4 months ago

So I'm calling on those history buffs out there, are you familiar with the Muslim practice throughout the last 2,000 years of building and dedicating a mosque at the site of what they consider to be great military victories? What about the Imam's history and background with the Taliban? That's right, the Obama administration is flying him all over the middle east right now recruiting more Muslims to come to America... I'm all for religious freedom, but this case makes a weak argument. It's provocation and political pandering at it's finest. If they only wanted a mosque, they would have taken the offer of free land on the other side of Manhattan. It's not surprising that many view their defiance as a desire to build a mosque to celebrate their "victory" on September 11th, not a desire to build a community center. The other part of tolerance is not provoking people who disagree with you. I don't view what they are doing as any different from the Phelps clan and I think we all agree they are crazy. Whether you are building a monument to your religion across the street from where misguided followers of your faith murdered more than 3,000 people or standing across the street from a soldiers funeral mocking their service, their sacrifice, and their family members, you are not exercising your freedom, you are provoking conflict. How is this case different? Yes you may have a right to do it, it's still wrong. Let them build it, it will be bombed, burned, and attacked. They will never find an American contractor to build it, a labor union behind it, an insurance company to insure it, or a New York City police or fireman to protect it.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

"Let them build it, it will be bombed, burned, and attacked."

Will you cheer if and when that happens?

WhiteDog 4 years, 4 months ago

"Let them build it, it will be bombed, burned, and attacked. They will never find an American contractor to build it, a labor union behind it, an insurance company to insure it, or a New York City police or fireman to protect it."

Well, at least oldvet only implied the evil. You just come on out and say it.

You do realize that this makes you exactly as evil as those you denounce, right? Bomb, burn and attack other HUMAN BEINGS in the name of religion.

I'm sure God is proud of you and you will get your virgins in heaven.

Zachary Stoltenberg 4 years, 4 months ago

I'm not condoning those actions, not by a long shot. I'm just a realist. It may be a little brutally honest but that statement isn't what any and everyone hasn't already thought. No point in tip-toeing around the issue when people's lives will be lost. Sorry if it's a bit too much reality for you this early in the morning and please, when leaping to future assumptions, make sure their is at least substance to base them on.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

"I'm just a realist."

If you're such a realist, why did so much of your previous post entail projecting evil motives onto those who want to build this facility, and comparing them to Phelps?

Zachary Stoltenberg 4 years, 4 months ago

Read it again Clown, what I said was that their actions were provoking conflict. I juxtaposed it to Phelps because everyone agrees they are crazy. Get it? Maybe that train of thought jumped your tracks huh?

WhiteDog 4 years, 4 months ago

No, it's not what "everyone" has already thought. I have never thought that any of the New York City fire or police men and women would sit idly by while any building burned and people died. I guess I just think more highly of them than you do.

Zachary Stoltenberg 4 years, 4 months ago

"No, it's not what "everyone" has already thought. I have never thought that any of the New York City fire or police men and women would sit idly by while any building burned and people died."

Then your an idiot...

WhiteDog 4 years, 4 months ago

You know, you might want to learn to spell your insults correctly. It just doesn't carry the same weight when you misspell a word while calling someone else an idiot.

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

Here are the facts: The mosque has been at that location for years before the attack on the Twin Towers. Nobody thought anything of it until the Muslim congregation decide to remake the building into a community center to promote interfaith understanding, reconciliation, and peace. Then a bunch of right-wing demogogues and politicians on the make decided to whip up controversy for their own gain, making up totally untrue allegations in the process.
I'm sure that the New York contractors will be glad of the work. It helps them, and the national economy. I'm sure that New York police and firefighters will protect it; it is their job and they are professionals.

RogueThrill 4 years, 4 months ago

If you put your ear real close to the comments section you can hear the sweet, sweet sound of a calliope.

Amy Heeter 4 years, 4 months ago

Give it a rest. It is not on ground zero. I read here time and again how so many of you are against racism, yet when faced with the oppertunity to practice diversity you change into a different beast. How surpriseing; America the land of hypocrites.

seriouscat 4 years, 4 months ago

He would not be where he is now if he didn't pass the litmus test for leftist 'tolerance'. This is not going to bode well for keeping left leaning politicians in office though, which is regrettable.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

The right is who has a litmus test, and it's whether or not a candidate openly displays bigotry.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 4 months ago

In other news: "Last week, a journalist who writes for the North Country Times, a small newspaper in Southern California, sent us an e-mail titled "Help." He couldn't understand why an Islamic Centre in an area where Adam Gadahn, Osama bin Laden's American spokesman came from, and that was home to three of the 911 terrorists, was looking to expand.

The man has a very valid point, which leads to the ongoing debate about building a Mosque at Ground Zero in New York. When we try to understand the reasoning behind building a mosque at the epicentre of the worst-ever attack on the U.S., we wonder why its proponents don't build a monument to those who died in the attack?

New York currently boasts at least 30 mosques so it's not as if there is pressing need to find space for worshippers. The fact we Muslims know the idea behind the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation to thumb our noses at the infidel. The proposal has been made in bad faith and in Islamic parlance, such an act is referred to as "Fitna," meaning "mischief-making" that is clearly forbidden in the Koran..."

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Mischief+Manhattan/3370303/story.html#ixzz0waWUpkmw

ivalueamerica 4 years, 4 months ago

The only reason to oppose this mosque is racism.

Racism is a sin and a mental illness.

Racism should be treated like cancer and a sin and eradicated as fast as possible.

seriouscat 4 years, 4 months ago

From the NYT:

A building on the site of the proposed center is already used for prayers, and some worshipers there on Friday night discussed the president’s remarks.

"Mohamed Haroun, an intern at a mechanical engineering firm, said, “What he should have said was: ‘This is a community decision. Constitutionally, they have the right to do it, but it’s a community decision and we should see what the local community wants to do.’ ”

yeah, OBVIOUSLY this guy is racist.

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

Since there is already a mosque at the site in question, what's the fuss about? So they want to make it into more of a community center to promote interfaith dialogue, instead of purely a house of worship. Why is this anybody's business except that of the Muslim community? Nobody outside the community ought to be putting any pressure whatsoever on the community to move or to abandon their plans. The people who are objecting aren't protesting a place for interfaith dialogue; they are protesting the presence of Muslims--any Muslims--at a location where they have been located peacefully for more than a decade. It may not be racism, but it certainly is religious bigotry.

BigPrune 4 years, 4 months ago

When in New York, Obama will have a place to worship.

Jimo 4 years, 4 months ago

"He went to war against them and there was not another attack."

There is a war that Bush pushed that Obama hasn't continued? Which one???

Leaving aside Bush's personal failure to avoid 9/11 despite being warned in advance, the claim of "not another attack" is about as a bald-faced lie as you can possibly get. Either that or you're just the most forgetful person alive.

whats_going_on 4 years, 4 months ago

I think delusional is the word the rest of us are looking for here.

wow, dude...just wow. :\

Amy Heeter 4 years, 4 months ago

So are we to assume you have never purchased a product made Japan? At some point we have to move beyond the anger, it is the only way to heal as a nation.

Bob_Keeshan 4 years, 4 months ago

You are wrongheaded to spew such hatred against a religion because of a few radicals. Are all Christians worthy of hatred because of Fred Phelps?

beatrice 4 years, 4 months ago

What about those Muslim Americans who lost loved ones on 9/11? Yes, their number was small by comparison (something like 23 Muslims working in the towers, as I recall), but the fanatics were not discriminating in who they killed.

I find it interesting that you mention Phelps. He claims he is a Christian, so does he really represent Christianity, or fanaticism? Saying fanatics represent Islam is exactly the same thing.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

"I am not some idiot who thinks all Muslims are murderers but the religion is tied to the murders committed on 9/11."

It was also tied to men with black hair and brown eyes-- should we forbid anyone with such characteristics from entering lower Manhattan?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

It's a little broader than either your first suggestion or my response, but equally arbitrary.

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

AppleJack, stop listening to the rantings of right-wing pundist and politicians. They are just filling your head with misinformation. Scarcely a single thing you said happens to be true. Even when the fact happens to be correct, the interpretation is completely off-base.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

"Scarcely a single thing you said happens to be true."

It merely has been repeated often enough. Give applejack and his ideological cohorts enough time, and they can make anything "truthy."

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

Fact are facts. Lies are lies. Socialsm, marxism, fascism, conservatism, fundamentalism, and all other -isms are irrelevant.

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

I use the KU Library to find my sources. It's open to everyone. There you can read reliable, dispassionate works by professionals on just about any topic, including the biography and the ideas of President Obama. There is no excuse for substituting right-wing (of left-wing) blather for real knowledge.

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

AppleJack, if I correct one mistake, you might learn one thing. (Or you might just deny the truth of my correction.) But if you learn to question what you read and verify statements for yourself, you can become a better informed citizen.

geekin_topekan 4 years, 4 months ago

Build the Bypass!! Them Indians are tree huggin hippy wannabes. . .

Oops. Wrong thread. I just heard of a bunch of people protesting to protect hallowed ground and just assumed, well, you know.

Carry on. Nothing more to see here.

fatarnie 4 years, 4 months ago

funniest thing in ages, I shall drink to that

pizzapete 4 years, 4 months ago

I like that, "post turtle" seems we have had a lot of those lately. I'm sure the left leaning taliban is glad this mosque being built. Too bad our president doesn't have the guts to stop this clearly anti-christian religion. Long live the crusades and the inquisition.

RiverCityConservative 4 years, 4 months ago

I had not heard "Taliban" used to describe the left before. I have heard it used to describe the religious right. Guess it's a term that is so overly used that it has lost any real meaning. I apologize for using such a semantically empty vocabulary word in one of my postings today. I was referring to the religious right or today's far far right, which is really about all there is left on the Republican side.

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

I heard this story first about George W. Bush.

50YearResident 4 years, 4 months ago

The transformation of America into a Socialist State, hasen't happened yet........ and "It does matter" to me and a lot of other people!

izzybear 4 years, 4 months ago

i dont agree with what the muslims want i think it is a direct slap in all americans face and they should be ashamed of themselves for even suggesting to build at groung zero and i truely believe that homeland seciurity should be taking a good hard look at these people because they are not acting as american citizens if they were this would have never come up.the last thing they would want to do is rub thier fellow americans face in what their misguided fellow believer's did. i know people of the muslim faith and they are ashamed of what was done in their faiths name. as for president obama he is defending the law he has no choice because no one is above the law and as he said it is a local matter. again i personally believe that the muslims that are pushing this are not to be trusted as they are more concerned with hurting our fellow american than in anything else.

jafs 4 years, 4 months ago

I'm sure that homeland security will be seriously investigating all those involved with this project.

If they're any good, they'll find out if there's anything untoward about it.

As of right now, the imam involved is a moderate Muslim who has denounced terrorism and encouraged bridge-building between Muslims and others - seems like exactly the sort of thing we should be encouraging.

George_Braziller 4 years, 4 months ago

So you think a mosque is bad and "they should be ashamed of themselves." Does that mean if it was a Shinto shrine, a Jewish temple, or a Hindu temple you'd be OK with that?

Probably not because in your myopic view if it isn't "Christian" it can't possibly be "American."

booyalab 4 years, 4 months ago

Obama reminds me of my mom when my brother and I were teenagers. We would be jokingly insulting each other within earshot of her, she would overhear something out of context, then butt in and chastise whoever happened to be speaking when she heard us. Eventually, I caught on to this tendency of hers and would start being pretend-offended by my bro whenever my mom was around, just to piss him off. Obama is the nation's mommy. I don't respect it.

Bob_Keeshan 4 years, 4 months ago

You have mommy issues. You don't need to be posting online, you need to see a therapist.

booyalab 4 years, 4 months ago

Hmm, I've seen a lot of fallacies on here but never anything like this. I wonder if there's a name for it....Appeal to Therapy, maybe?

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

Thank you, President Obama, for standing up for American values! The Muslims who are building the center in New York are not the foreign radical Islamist Muslims who attacked the city. They are Americans who are preaching a version of Islam that preaches religious tolerance and pluralism, the American values of democracy and civil rights, and peace. It rejects radical Islamist and terrorist ideas, and it represents a powerful challenge to them. As such, it is fitting to place it near Ground Zero--just as it would be fitting to build Christian- or Jewish- or Hindu- or Buddhist-sponsored sites.
It is American to distinguish between Americans of a given heritage and foreign enemies who happen to arise from the same heritage. We learned that lesson the hard way during World War II, when the government deported Japanese-Americans, even though not a single one of them was a traitor. It is American to uphold the Constitutional guarantees of freedom of religion to all faiths, not just Christian denominations. And also to uphold the freedom not to espouse any religion at all. It is American to stand up and object when some of our fellow citizens would deny basic American rights to others of our fellow citizens. It is American to tell demagogues who are spewing hatred that we will not listen to them any more. One does not have to be a Muslim or a political supporter of President Obama to be appalled by the bigotry that is being expressed in this forum, and in the ones that preceded it on this topic. It is the sort of thing one hears from propagandists in Iran. It's the kind of scary rhetoric that presaged Kristallnacht in Nazi Germany. Such bigotry is unAmerican. It is unChristian. It is inhumane. And it is dangerous.

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

I know enough about Muslims to be able to tell the difference between radical terrorists and peace-loving tolerant fellow citizens. Do you?

RiverCityConservative 4 years, 4 months ago

Whoever said this mosque is to celebrate an Islamic "victory" is sorely misguided. It was a sneak attack, a cynical act, and nowhere near a "victory." The only way it could become a victory in any sense of the word would be if they had been successful in destroying the values and freedoms that define America. I am glad that my fourth grade teacher taught us that America is an idea, an experiment in democracy, and that some of our eloquent leaders have reminded us that we have to defend this nation in every new generation against the new threats that come. Those lemmings that were led to slaughter by the insane ramblings of Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaida committed an atrocity. There have been a number of different ideas floated and some implemented regarding how to fight back and how to ensure justice is meted out in response to their horrible crime. Freedom of religion is not a liberal concept--it is an American value and it means we respect each other's religious beliefs. Again, we are lucky to have the right leader for this uncertain time in American history, and I repeat that I agree with his statement yesterday about religious freedom, even extending to the construction of that mosque. Freedom is never easy. And this blog page argument attests to how hard it is to know how to respond to threats to our American way of life.

akt2 4 years, 4 months ago

He won't see another term. Four years is all America will be able to stomach. Among other things, a patriot he is not.

RiverCityConservative 4 years, 4 months ago

Where was this mission? Do you have good reason to present the beliefs of those you were helping or interacting with there as representative of the opinions of people all over the world? Do you remember how embarrassing it was to have the bumbling Bush administration in charge? How they ignored national opinion and worldwide opinion to carry the fight away from the threat and instead invest American treasure and blood in settling a Bush-Saddam family feud? We're still cleaning up that mess and trying to regain the momentum in Afghanistan that Bush squandered and lost for his quixotic adventure in Iraq. Obama not doing as well as he can or should, but he's far out-performing anyone who recently was president.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

I can just see those conversations now. Some poor schmuck is stuck in the same room with you while you go off on one of your rants, and they nod politely while hoping that they can escape ASAP.

beatrice 4 years, 4 months ago

Who knew that Oklahoma qualifies as "overseas"?

grammaddy 4 years, 4 months ago

That's funny. I have relatives all over the world and they tell me public opinion of the USA has soared since the election of Obama.I'm curious, what country was your mission in?

WHY 4 years, 4 months ago

Good job Obama, despite the religious right being mad a religious freedom. As an atheist I find the whole thing appalling since I wouldn't want a baptist church built there either. Muslim extremist killed 3,000 Americans. Catholics raped thousands of our kids. Protestants brainwashed us and took away all our fun (sex drugs rock and roll). I say get rid of them all.

50YearResident 4 years, 4 months ago

If you are right then we will have a Republican back in office as the Dem's are bound to back Obama for a second term. We can not afford Obams for a second term. He would bankrupt America. We are heading that way now and it only been 1 1/2 years.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 4 months ago

Indeed, there is much to criticize Obama for. We're in a sinking ship, (thanks mostly to Republican and DLC [Republican-lite] policies) and he's bailing us out with a teacup when he should be using a 55-gallon barrel. But you want to put a Republican back in there so he can blast a few more holes into the hull.

jafs 4 years, 4 months ago

You seem to labor under the misconception that the majority opinion is the correct one.

jafs 4 years, 4 months ago

Ok.

So you're not glad that you think he will not be re-elected because he's not simply pandering to the will of the majority?

"A one-termer for sure!"

I remember a similar sentiment on another thread regarding gay marriage - it seems to me that you generally think that the majority should be able to dictate what happens.

Given that we are constitutionally based, that's not the way the system is supposed to work - many Americans seem to have little understanding of that fact.

What if the majority supported slavery, discrimination against minorities, and removing the right of women to vote or own property?

In this case, if the polls are correct, most people want to deny the right of religious freedom, which is guaranteed in the constitution - and they want to dictate to private property owners what they do with their property (counter to the principle that no one should be denied their rights of life, liberty or property without due process).

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

Fortunately, Constitutional rights are not subject to majority vote. This is a prime example of why the Founding Fathers set things up that way.

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

The process for amending the constitution has multiple steps involving both a special vote in both houses of Congress and ratification in a super-majority of states. It's a complicated and usually lengthy process, by design. That's far different than putting existing Constitutional rights up to a majority vote of the populace.

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

Sort of, Hydra. But you started by saying that I was "wrong." But I wasn't--I just didn't supply the details you wanted. I hope that you aren't proposing that the Constitution be amended to keep American religious groups from using property that belongs to them.

RiverCityConservative 4 years, 4 months ago

In six more years the majority of Americans will be in favor of allowing presidents to serve three terms, but Obama, just like George Washington before him, will decline the honor and ride off into the sunset after setting right the ship of state for the benefit of future generations of Americans. Sure glad we have his steady hand at the wheel. Between the American Taliban and the Afghani Taliban, the rhetoric can get pretty heated sometimes. FREEDOM FREEDOM FREEDOM Let the call echo through the mountains and across the plains FREEDOM FREEDOM FREEDOM. Yes We Can! Thank God for Obama.

yourworstnightmare 4 years, 4 months ago

Jesus, oneeye_wilbur, lay off the sauce this early in the day.

yourworstnightmare 4 years, 4 months ago

"According to Obama we're a Muslim nation..."

When? Did I miss this speech?

"Certainly the muslims have a right to build the mosque, and we have a right to display cartoons of the mentally unstable prophet."

Exactly right. Kind of a Jekyll and Hyde post, wasn't it Conservative2011?

yourworstnightmare 4 years, 4 months ago

This site is two blocks from Ground Zero.

How far away must a mosque be from Ground Zero until it no longer offends the politically correct right?

Three blocks? A mile? Ten miles? In Canada? Not in North America?

I think we need a Constitutional amendment stating that mosques cannot be built two blocks from ground zero.

Idiots.

beatrice 4 years, 4 months ago

To hell with rights. Lots of people here expressing their White to be angry.

beatrice 4 years, 4 months ago

Yes. For some. Those who are calling Obama a Muslim and such, that is exactly what it is. I've seen on these posts at least one regular here claim "Whites have no power right now." Can you imagine that? One person of color is elected into a position of extraordinary power and is able to strip Whites of all their power? For some, the argument against Obama is as clear as Black and White. Not all, but for some.

beatrice 4 years, 4 months ago

Oh no, I didn't bring racism into the discussion. I'm just recognizing it others. If you don't think it applies to you, why are you bothered?

yourworstnightmare 4 years, 4 months ago

"Admitting your'e wrong is not as painful as you may think."

Speaking from vast experience there, Shewmon? That would make sense inasmuch as you are so often wrong, but I haven't ever really seen you admit it.

Thats_messed_up 4 years, 4 months ago

If 3000 Lawrence Obama worshippers were blown up by Muslims I would definitely contribute to the victory mosque. Maybe just east of Replay Lounge?

yourworstnightmare 4 years, 4 months ago

Well, you should support this mosque two blocks from ground zero, as most of the 3000 or so killed were likely democrats and would have supported Obama.

These weren't gun-tottin' good ole boy right wingers killed in the WTC. Most were New York educated professionals or immigrant janitorial workers (i.e. democrats).

Good to see so much sympathy for 2000 dead east coast liberal democrats, though.

RiverCityConservative 4 years, 4 months ago

It's possible that you have studied the official lists and biographies of the WTC victims. I know it took New York Times several months to present all of them in its paper edition. The lists, along with personal information, are available two places I know of: http://inmemoriamonline.net/List_WTC-A.html and http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/newyorkandregion/series/portraits_of_grief/index.html . I do not endorse your seemingly flippant tone regarding the deaths of these individuals, but I am pretty sure your main point was something perhaps less offensive and more reasonable.

yourworstnightmare 4 years, 4 months ago

Or a Turkish coffee shop.

Or a Ramadan Inn.

A Turban Outfitters.

An office of Burqashire-Hathaway.

Silly muslims. Believing in a sky god whom they must obey or face eternity in hell. Ridiculous.

Calliope877 4 years, 4 months ago

If the mosque was built smack dab in the middle of the Trade Center site, then I'd agree with that decision as being inappropriate and insensitive to the victims/families of 9/11, but it's two blocks away which I think is a fairly respectful distance as opposed to it being built on the actual site.

beatrice 4 years, 4 months ago

Lots of people here showing they really don't believe in freedom of religion. I wonder, what other freedoms would this group like to take away?

We have a President who stands up for the Constitution. Thank goodness.

Joe Hyde 4 years, 4 months ago

Exactly, beatrice. It takes a lot of political courage, and adherence to the U.S. Constitution, for President Obama to say what he did on this matter.

We can say the same thing about the city leaders of New York for clearing the way for that mosque to be built.

Weren't there a number of Muslims among the victims of the World Trade Center attack? I think there was, and real Muslims know that those lives were not self-sacrifices in the name of jihad. No, those American Muslims were victims of Arab Islamic extemists. This is a point worth remembering, and it could very well be the reason why there is even a desire by American Muslims to build a mosque near the WTC site.

yourworstnightmare 4 years, 4 months ago

Sadly, Bea, they believe only in the freedom to be a christian.

yankeevet 4 years, 4 months ago

This is not a traditional American President.....................

RiverCityConservative 4 years, 4 months ago

Thank goodness for that. A traditional person would have lost their mind in the face of so many expected and unexpected challenges. This president has a new style that is appropriate for the world as it is today. I am looking forward to his second term in office, as all his initiatives get up into full swing. Land of the free, home of the brave, not "home of those who cower in fear and wish it were all like mommy and daddy's world was..." President Obama. The man. Proud I voted for him. Give me another bag for my tea, please. :)

grammaddy 4 years, 4 months ago

Hear, hear. Can't wait for another chance to vote for him.

beatrice 4 years, 4 months ago

Appreciating the freedoms outlined in the Constitution makes me hate America? Please explain how appreciating freedom of religion makes me hate America.

jafs 4 years, 4 months ago

Expressions of various constitutionally protected freedoms are often insensitive and offensive.

If they weren't, there would probably not be a need to protect them - nobody would try to suppress them.

Many of the posters on here express their freedom of speech in ways that many others find insensitive and offensive, and that create angry backlashes.

Should they be silenced?

jafs 4 years, 4 months ago

Your post suggested that the people involved were being "insensitive" and thus shouldn't complete this project, also because of an angry backlash.

My post countered that many constitutionally protected freedoms are expressed "insensitively" and create angry backlashes.

I haven't seen you advocate that posters who express themselves in ways that offend others and create angry backlashes stop doing so.

Seems like a clear and direct response to me.

And, for what it's worth, there's a mosque there right now - the project is to demolish that and create more of a community center, as I understand it.

yankeevet 4 years, 4 months ago

Muslims killed 3,000 of our people..........and now they want too build this mosque; and our american president supports this???????????

beatrice 4 years, 4 months ago

No.

Will you lie and make disgusting accusations because you only care about party over country? Yes.

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

Not the same Muslims, yankeevet. Radical Islamist terrorists from al-Qaeda attacked the US on 9/11/2001. Moderate American Muslims who promote the American values of peace, democracy, and pluralism, and who reject terrorism are the ones connected with this mosque. It's the difference between the KKK and the Methodists down the block.
The mosque already exists on this site; it was there years before 9/11/2001. It never caused anybody any trouble, and nobody objected it, until right-wing pundits and politicians started stirring up hatred in order to promote their own careers. President Obama backs the Muslim community in this because they are in the right, legally and morally.

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

That is exactly what President Obama has done: he has defended American Muslims when political winds shifted in an ugly direction. The false allegations made against this Muslim congregation in New York certainly are ugly. I do not doubt that President Obama will stand equally with other groups of Americans who are threatened and harassed.

voevoda 4 years, 4 months ago

That email distorted Obama's pledge, making it sound as though there is something scary and horrible about defending American Muslims from harassment and hostility. The context matters, AppleJack. Look up where and when Barack Obama said this, and what else he said in the same place. Don't believe an email you got from someone who is trying to foment trouble.

beatrice 4 years, 4 months ago

Yankeevet, are you aware that at least 23 of those killed in the towers on 9/11 were Americans of Muslim faith?

Just as the KKK uses Christianity to cloak their hatred in religion, so too did these terrorists validate their actions.

Our American President supports freedom of religion.

yankeevet 4 years, 4 months ago

No; I was unaware that 23 were muslims.................however I was aware that one of them who perished was my cousin....she was a baptist........

RiverCityConservative 4 years, 4 months ago

Wishing you and your family continued strength after your loss.

beatrice 4 years, 4 months ago

Of course we are all sorry for your loss. However, the fanatics were intent on killing Americans. They didn't care what religion they would be.

Jimo 4 years, 4 months ago

Who is "our people"? Who is "they want"?

Your assumptions and fingerpointing reveal quite a lot of your divorce from facts.

TheYetiSpeaks 4 years, 4 months ago

Have any of these people who are against this actually been to New York City? It's 3 blocks away! Thats like 100 miles away here. You wont be able to see it from ground zero. Therefore, saying the mosque is AT ground zero is a little misleading. This mosque has been there for a while. Before 9-11 would you have said that this mosque was at the World Trade Center? NO! You would have said it was 3 blocks away. It's within walking distance. I live within walking distance of a bar, but I wouldn't say I live at the bar (The bartender might, though). This is such a non issue.

blindrabbit 4 years, 4 months ago

As Sarah might put it: Build Baby Build! YouBetCha!

blindrabbit 4 years, 4 months ago

Yeti: Think you are probably right-on about most Kansans having not visited New York City; many apparently never having left the State. If that is true, why are so many getting exercised about the mosque being built there; most around here think NYC is inhabited by us Progressive nuts anyway. So it should little affect on the rapidly turning puritanical nature of much of the Kansas populace. NYC is like Sodom and Gomorrah to many out here anyway.

RiverCityConservative 4 years, 4 months ago

Ought not to dignify your quip with a response. You have a rather quaint view of the Kansas populace. Perhaps you are thinking of Gunsmoke on TV.

blindrabbit 4 years, 4 months ago

River; First hand knowledge about Kansas voting populace. When working on both East and West coasts I used to defend and brag about how Kansans were open-minded and held progressive and populist ideals. Needed to be positive about something as Kansas was known by most outsiders as Flat, Middle, Dorothy and twisters That was years ago, before the GOP was hijacked by fundamentalist right-wingers; ( Brownback, Ryun, Jenkins, Tiahrt, Kobach and Klein) leaving no-home for Progressive Republicans like myself. Seeing Senators Brownback and his C-Street agenda, and Robert's inexcusable defense of the Iran War mess (as Chairman of oversight committee) did not add credence to Kansas' ability to elect competent candidates.

blindrabbit 4 years, 4 months ago

Should have said Iraq and not Iran (in my prior). Although Robert's would have dittoed anything Dubya and Darth wanted.

feeble 4 years, 4 months ago

Just an FYI, opposing private property property rights and advocating for government overreach means, you are not, and never will be, a libertarian.

Brad Maestas 4 years, 4 months ago

As a New Yorker of over six years (and a resident of Lawrence before that) I was initially not sure how to feel about it given what the media chose to report. At first I thought it to be in bad taste but after some consideration I am not against it. Most of us understand that the mosque owners and attendees are moderate Muslims but for the majority of Americans that doesn't matter. It's still incendiary and is still going to be highly controversial. The 'good ol' boys' will see this as turning over and letting 'them' walk all over 'us' but if ever there was a gesture of good faith, it would be this. It should not be a gesture of forgiveness because there is nothing to forgive. Moderate Muslims did not attack us. A very specific group of Radical Muslims did. If Fred Phelps' harem committed an act of domestic terrorism would we immediately condemn all Christians? Of course not. Only his perverted congregation should be singled out, not the entirety of Christianity. It is our ignorance (and our pride) that's in the way here.

Cait McKnelly 4 years, 4 months ago

Considering that the mosque isn't being built at Ground Zero but two blocks away, I'm wondering why people have their underwear in such knots over it. Unless it's oh..yeah..religious persecution. So..ok..let's tear up the First Amendment (and the Fourteenth while we're at it so those illegal Mexican's kids can't get citizenship) and just go whole hog. We can kick around the Catholic Church for what those nasty priests did; just kick 'em right out of the ole US of A. Or hey, how about that Jewish temple down the road? Yeah, they don't even celebrate Christmas. What right have they got to yell about it when we yell over Walmart's employees saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas? We all know the only acceptable churches are Baptist, Lutheran ( a little squicky. I mean they DID let George Tiller be a member), Methodist, Presbyterian, Mormon, etc. AME churches are only ok if they stay in their neighborhoods. After all they have GREAT music. Better yet, let's just tear up the whole Constitution. It's nothing but an old piece of paper anyway.

50YearResident 4 years, 4 months ago

Sure, the $100,000,000 million construction costs are all comming from the local moderate muslims population. Local New Yorkers should not be not be at all concerned and should welcome this project with open arms. SIC

TheYetiSpeaks 4 years, 4 months ago

$100,000,000???...as in million? What are they building? a football stadium? Come on...Don't believe everything you read on the internet. You can't add in the value of the land (which in Lower Manhattan would be extensive) and call it part of the construction costs, thats just wrong.

love2fish_ks 4 years, 4 months ago

"I was not speaking about the wisdom of building a mosque near ground zero, nor will I." - Pres Obama.

Mr President, Why not tell us what you think is sound wisdom? Your silence is sending strong messages. Quit dithering!

Flap Doodle 4 years, 4 months ago

In other Religion of Peace related news: “KABUL, Afghanistan — Taliban militants in northern Afghanistan stoned a young couple to death for adultery, which a rights group said was the first confirmed use of the punishment here since the hardline Islamist regime was ousted in 2001. The Taliban-ordered killing comes at a time when international rights groups have raised worries that attempts to negotiate with the Taliban to bring peace to Afghanistan could mean a step backward for human rights in the country. When the Islamist extremists ruled Afghanistan, women were not allowed to leave their houses without a male guardian, and public killings for violations of their harsh interpretation of the Quran were common. This weekend's stoning appeared to arise from an affair between a married man and a single woman in Kunduz province's Dasht-e-Archi district. The woman, Sadiqa, was 20 years old and engaged to another man, said the Kunduz provincial police chief, Gen. Abdul Raza Yaqoubi. Her lover, 28-year-old Qayum, left his wife to run away with her, and the two had holed up in a friend's house five days ago, said district government head, Mohammad Ayub Aqyar. They were discovered by Taliban operatives on Sunday and stoned to death in front a crowd of about 150 men, Aqyar said. He said the woman was brought out and stoned first, then the man a half an hour later…” http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38724568/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

thusspokezarathustra 4 years, 4 months ago

Hey applejack why don't you use the whole quote?

"Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

Clearly he was speaking about standing by Arab & Pakistani AMERICANS not Islam or Muslims in general. Of course quoting accurately wouldn't support your xenophobic narrative.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 4 months ago

I loves me the desperation coming from Democrats these days. "WASHINGTON — The Senate's top Democrat on Monday came out against plans to build a mosque near the site of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, moving away from President Barack Obama on the controversial election-year issue..." http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7156107.html

independant1 4 years, 4 months ago

more names for the nyc mosque Ham-Ass TGI Fatwah's Ba-da-BANG!

Imam Rauf a moderate muslim spokesman for the project. (moderate?)

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