Archive for Tuesday, April 27, 2010

Kansan Kris Kobach helped write controversial Arizona immigration law

Kris Kobach engages in an online chat with ljworld.com readers in this 2004 photo. Kobach helped write a new immigration law in Arizona that has civil rights groups up in arms.

Kris Kobach engages in an online chat with ljworld.com readers in this 2004 photo. Kobach helped write a new immigration law in Arizona that has civil rights groups up in arms.

April 27, 2010

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— The new immigration law in Arizona, which has caused an uproar among civil rights groups, has a Kansas connection.

Kris Kobach, a law professor, former chairman of the Kansas Republican Party, and a GOP candidate for secretary of state, helped write the law.

“I believe in the cause,” Kobach said.

The law, which takes effect this summer in Arizona, would make it a crime under state law to be in the U.S. illegally, and it directs state and local police to question people about their status if the officer suspects they are illegal. People who are unable to produce documents showing they are legally in the U.S. could be arrested, jailed and fined.

The law has been roundly criticized by civil rights advocates who say people who look or sound foreign will be forced to repeatedly confirm their citizenship.

Kobach described the law as “reasonable and measured” and said criticisms of it have been in error.

He said part of the law says police may not use racial profiling. He said a typical situation where the law would be used is where an officer stops a vehicle for a traffic infraction along a known smuggling corridor and a large number of people are in the vehicle, no one has identification and the driver acts evasively.

“All those factors combined would constitute reasonable suspicion,” he said.

As an attorney, Kobach has long been involved in battles targeting illegal immigration.

He said the Arizona law’s author, state Sen. Russell Pearce, a Republican, asked for his help in drafting the measure.

“I have an expertise in this area,” said Kobach, adding that he provided the assistance for free.

Kobach said he didn’t believe his involvement in creation of the law would have any impact on running for secretary of state. He said if elected secretary of state, he would help draw up a similar bill in Kansas only if asked by a state legislator and if he had some spare time.

Comments

Richard Payton 5 years, 2 months ago

If I traveled to any country outside the United States and don't provide documents. I would be deported back to the United States.

KUBlue0809 5 years, 2 months ago

Where in the constitution does it say that it's alright to break a law, work illegally, and not pay taxes?

Mean_Green 5 years, 2 months ago

Steps in the right direction for a safer US. Good work Mr. Kobach.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 5 years, 2 months ago

In Nazi Germany, the "law enforcement" people were given powers to stop and investigate "papers" of any citizen. Those who were considered suspicious or unloyal to the Furher were arrested. Many were taken away at night by "Nacht and Nebel" squads (means "night and fog") Most were not heard from again.

How much longer until the self-appointed "Take our country back militia" begin to anoint themselves upholders of the true and loyal citizens and start to make night raids on "suspected illegals" and haul them off.

They thought it could save the German People from the communists and gypsies and homosexuals. They gave it back to the "Furher"

Who is to say that this might be the mindset of some of those who want to control immigration by any means possible?

ivalueamerica 5 years, 2 months ago

well said, Frwent,

America can control illegal immigration without following in Hitler's footsteps, voiding the Constitution and standing arm and arm with racist. In fact we must, or we are no longer America.

citizen0123 5 years, 2 months ago

you know,all you do is whine and complain. for about the tenth time now,what do you suggest be done?its easy to complain and call names and belittle our country.why dont you try saying something constructive for a change.same to you frwent.

N_Trenched 5 years, 2 months ago

Why all the fuss? If our our executive branch will not take care of this issue, the border states have no choice but to stop illegal immigration.

akuna 5 years, 2 months ago

It is not the Executive Branch that is not taking care of this issue. It is the Legislative Branch. In particular, it is the the Right Wing of the Legislative Branch that doesn't want to tackle these issues right now. They'll continue to be obstructionists on making fair and reasonable progress until the member of their party start to contact them demanding action.

N_Trenched 5 years, 2 months ago

You're joking right. Did you not hear Obama yesterday? He wants nothing to do with "fair and reasonable progress" as much as he wants to ensure his voting base stays in this country!

BlackVelvet 5 years, 2 months ago

wait for it......how long before some wet-pants leftiists arrive and announce this is but one more reason to be ashamed of Kansas????

(let 'em move if they're ashamed)

grammaddy 5 years, 2 months ago

I'm not moving because one idiot Kansan helped Arizona legalize racial profiling. Now if you are brown skinned in Arizona, you better carry ID with you at all times. Yes, this proves the bumper sticker"Kansas, more bigotted than you know". Why isn't anyone concerned with the Canadian border? That's where all the 9/11 terrorists entered this country from. Oh, I forgot, not many brown-skinned people in Canada. BOYCOTT ARIZONA!!

N_Trenched 5 years, 2 months ago

This is the problem with your line of thinking. You are required to produce ID whenever you are stopped by the police. We are required to show ID when we go for a job interview (because of illegal immigration). Citizens are asked when we go to a hotel, the courthouse, the grocery store and on an on. Obama is refusing to enforce the federal law which he swore to uphold. Does Canada have millions of their citizenry invading America? If this were the case I guarantee the same reaction would take place.

tert 5 years, 2 months ago

BlackV - You said it - It is, and I did. How's that education working out for your kids? I love where I grew up and went to school but the intolerance is intolerable back home.

Charles L Bloss Jr 5 years, 2 months ago

Long overdue, this should be a Federal law! We need to send all of the illegals home! Thank you, Lynn

werekoala 5 years, 2 months ago

Send them home, r-i-i-i-ght....

I'm sorry, but when I see this sort of nonsense being squawked about, I know I am not dealing with a serious person. I'm guessing you haven't exactly thought through the logistics of somehow locating, incarcerating, and transporting 10-20 million human beings, have you?

kansastruthteller 5 years, 2 months ago

They didn't come here all at once and we won't send them home all at once. One illegal immigrant at a time, not 10 million all at once. They are criminals and do not deserve to be here. Follow the legal ways to enter this country.

puddleglum 5 years, 2 months ago

what about gas? a little gas never hurt anybody.

kansastruthteller 5 years, 2 months ago

It is federal law, but it just isn't enforced.

Defixione 5 years, 2 months ago

The fake ID business in Arizona will go platinum.

Shardwurm 5 years, 2 months ago

Yeah except in Kanas children of illegal immigrants pay in-state tuition thanks to Sebelius.

happy_go_lucky 5 years, 2 months ago

Children of illegal immigrants are still citizens if born here. Same way you are a citizen.

Kent Shrack 5 years, 2 months ago

Illegal immigrants, pay in-state tuition. They didn't have to be born here. In-state tuition for felons, but don't let someone from Missouri or Colorado dare go to our state universities without paying a huge premium.

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 2 months ago

I have no problem with stricter measures against illegal immigration. However, the power granted to police in this law should make any civil libertarian shudder.

When "just cause" becomes "I thought she looked like an illegal Mexican", it is time to stop and think hard about if this is what we want.

Illegal immigrants come here for one reason: to find jobs. We need to enforce stricter measures on employers, farmers, fruit and vegetable growers, etc., who knowingly hire and indeed recruit Mexican citizens illegally to this country to work their jobs.

As any god capitalist knows, eliminate the demand, and the supply will dwindle. Eliminate the low wage jobs for illegal immigrants, and they will stop coming here illegally.

sittinthefence 5 years, 2 months ago

Not all illegal immigrants come to find jobs. Some come to sell drugs, steal cars, murder, rape, blow up buildings, join gangs, and the list could go on. IMO anyone who comes into or stays in this country ILLEGALLY is already breaking the law. Along with this they don't pay taxes but use the services those of us paying taxes pay for. With the unemployment rates what they are right now it's a very good time to kick the law breakers out.

The problem is bigger than the Mexican border but we have to start somewhere.

werekoala 5 years, 2 months ago

Of course they pay taxes! Not income taxes, duh, but remember that report that the right wing had their Tizzy O' The Day over during tax season that said 47% of Americans don't pay income tax?

Probably not, because the report left out that aside from old ladies who no one wants to rile, these people are hourly workers whose payroll taxes combined with sales taxes, fees, etc. tend to take away a larger percentage of their income than the traditional income tax...

It's doubly true with illegal immigrants. To work for any length of time, you have to have some sort of SS#, and you and your employer both have to kick in to the system, even though you will never get anything back.

Hell, far from hating on illegals, bringing in millions more might just save social security and balance the budget!

tomatogrower 5 years, 2 months ago

All you have to do is make it easy for those who want to really work to enter the country legally. It's not even close to being easy right now, that's why they come in illegally. Then shoot anyone crossing the border illegally. You are turning people who just want to better their lives into criminals, and actually making it easier for the drug dealers and those who commit real crimes, other than stealing that landscaping job that you've been dying to have. And why do you think all those drug dealers are coming in? It's the stupid Americans who do drugs. If there was no demand there would be no supply.

EarthaKitt 5 years, 2 months ago

Note to Canadian building blower-uppers: I think you've just been threatened, eh?

citizen0123 5 years, 2 months ago

i agree with everything you said except one thing,the police DO NOT HAVE MORE POWER THAN THEY EVER HAD.They are now being asked to enforce federal and state laws that have been in effect for years.the federal government wont enforce their own laws so the state must.WAKE UP.theres nothing new here.it is simply time to enforce the law.

Bruce Bertsch 5 years, 2 months ago

Wouldn't it just be easier to have them wear yellow stars so we know who they are?

N_Trenched 5 years, 2 months ago

It would be easier to have the Liberals wear a yellow star. That would be a terrific way to point out to my children who the ignorant class is. How about a "reality check"! Checking an ID is not what happened in Nazi Germany. If you recall, the Jews were there legally. The only people making this a racial issue are the uninformed leftist crowd with nothing better to do.

Richard Payton 5 years, 2 months ago

Obama better stay out of Arizona because if he is throw in jailed ICE would need to see his birth certificate before releasing him. He might have to call Michelle if he didn't carry it on him.

BlackVelvet 5 years, 2 months ago

"I have no problem with stricter measures against illegal immigration. However, the power granted to police in this law should make any civil libertarian shudder. When "just cause" becomes "I thought she looked like an illegal Mexican", it is time to stop and think hard about if this is what we want...."

I seriously doubt the wording of the law gives the cops carte blanche to stop anyone they feel "might be" illegal. I think they will have to have some kind of articulable suspicion at least. And as with all other laws, the courts should be overseeing things and if the cops are acting wrongly, the courts will surely intervene.

And if the feds would do THEIR jobs, Arizona would not have to do this. Period.

woodscolt 5 years, 2 months ago

black velvet says "I seriously doubt the wording of the law gives the cops carte blanche to stop anyone they feel "might be" illegal. I think they will have to have some kind of articulable suspicion at least."

Exactly right, oh I know, something like racial profiling.

gccs14r 5 years, 2 months ago

"I thought I smelled pot." Voilà. Instant probable cause. Never mind that it's completely bogus.

gccs14r 5 years, 2 months ago

Right, but I don't also have to provide proof of resident status/citizenship just because some cop wants to roust me.

redcrow 5 years, 2 months ago

You are incorrect. The Supreme Court has already ruled that law enforcement can ask for and expect to receive identification from you. A gentleman in one of the western states was stopped and refused to provide it because he had not committed any crime. So that one is already decided. Standing on the sidewalk, officer asks for your ID, you have to provide it.

whats_going_on 5 years, 2 months ago

good question, but I imagine because the border is so big, and they're probably just way outnumbered.

SeaBee 5 years, 2 months ago

Since when is this money chasing , vote chasing would-be politico an expert on anything?

http://krazykriskobach.com/

SeaBee 5 years, 2 months ago

P.S.

Wasn't he also the dbag that instituted "loyalty tests" for GOP candidates?

"Your papers please" - sounds like he would have felt right at home with an SS armband as a fashion statement.

EarthaKitt 5 years, 2 months ago

DBAG!! That's the word that had been escaping me. If I were his campaign manager I would seriously consider it for a slogan as it appears to resonate with his constituency.

EarthaKitt 5 years, 2 months ago

DBAG!! That's the word that had been escaping me. If I were his campaign manager I would seriously consider it for a slogan as it appears to resonate with his constituency.

SeaBee 5 years, 2 months ago

Well, dbag does rhyme with Teabag - and I suspect he is cut from the same cloth.

This toad is a candidate for Kansas Secretary of State!

Please don't forget to vote against this sleazeball.

eric1889 5 years, 2 months ago

I know very little about this law, but it does seem to be a bit unconstitutional. Are we not protected against unwarranted searches? Are their any punishments for the business owners that hire these illegal workers? If we really want to help stop illegals from entering our country, we need to have hefty fines and jail time for the people knowingly hiring these workers.

werekoala 5 years, 2 months ago

Silly, everyone knows that "the people" in the Bill of Rights means "white people"...

Plus if you really cracked down on the employers, well, they'd have to hire Americans, who cost more, and prices would go up, and Always Low Prices, Always! At any cost!!!

impska 5 years, 2 months ago

Though the media focus is on the identification issue, there is, in fact, a portion of the bill that deals with stricter punishment for businesses that hire illegal workers.

eric1889 5 years, 2 months ago

That doesn't take away from the fact that the bill is unconstitutional. Drugs are illegal, so can the Arizona police just begin searching an individual they suspect are carrying drugs?

llama726 5 years, 2 months ago

That's actually not true. Legal aliens don't have to carry their green card. It's like a social security card. They're encouraged to have it but not to regularly carry it so it doesn't get stolen, etc., but rather to keep it in a safe place.

If Liberals make you sick, what do Constitutionalists make you? 4th Amendment. This law is unconstitutional if it results in even one American citizen being asked to surrender identification. End of story.

N_Trenched 5 years, 2 months ago

Yes, if a cop suspects any illegal activity they are bound to act. It's their job.

onemansopinion 5 years, 2 months ago

Where is the Tea Party to protest this dramatic overreach of the goverment into individual liberties? Some people that will be affected are American citizens and have the right to refuse to identify themselves. Seems pretty unconstitutional to me...

werekoala 5 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, see, that's only if it's a Democratic Administration, that they're against government intrusions into civil liberties.

Were you not deafened by the silence of the past eight years that coincidentally ended the morning of Obama's inauguration?

lllwll 5 years, 2 months ago

koala this is why it has to be addressed. Your comments show you are anti and maybe racist aganist what americans belive they can take a stand against invasion of all people willing to take advantage of the liberal and the I don't care people of our gov.

werekoala 5 years, 2 months ago

I'm sorry, you're going to have to rephrase that in the form of a coherent thought for me to reply...

... good luck with that, now

onemansopinion 5 years, 2 months ago

But could you address the issue I raised instead of attacking the current or past administration? I don't recall my previous statement laying blame at the federal level on this issue, and I certainly didn't make a personal attack on any person based on their political ideology.

average 5 years, 2 months ago

I know it's all decentralized (so impossible to label), but Sheriff Arpaio is a regular speaker of honor at Tea Party events in Arizona. In general, I don't think they're worried about overreaching government. They just don't want to pay for it.

arealmlc 5 years, 2 months ago

Kobach is lying when he says "adding that he provided the assistance for free." Actually, "Dr." Kobach was paid handsomely by infamously racist AZ sheriff Joe Arpaio, out of a slush fund the sheriff from property he seizes.... to the tune of $300 an HOUR, plus expenses, airfare, hotel, travel expenses AND a retainer of $1500 per MONTH.

By the way, Kobach is also the legal counsel for the Federation of Immigration Law Reform. which is classified as a hate group by the well-respected Southern Poverty Law Center.

Source: http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2010/03/kris_kobach_nativist_attorney.php

woodscolt 5 years, 2 months ago

"“I have an expertise in this area,” said Kobach, adding that he provided the assistance for free."

He has an expertise in the area of "lying". Once again another "right wing wacko who is ordained by his mission to be truth challenged. Caught with your pants down again Kobach. Whats another lie, its for a good cause.

puddleglum 5 years, 2 months ago

you know, Kobach is a dolt. always has been. however, I like his view on this one.

Trog 5 years, 2 months ago

Most people calling this law racist or violating civil rights have not read the law. It explicitly forbids racial profile of any kind. The suspect must already be pulled over for an infraction in order to ask for a green card, or any other documentation. And guess what, it is already written into FEDERAL law that anyone in this country must provide proof of being here legally when asked by authorities. This law closely mirrors Federal law and will stand up in to a court challenge..So for all of you cry babies screaming at the top of your lungs take a look at the law and come with an informed opinion..

werekoala 5 years, 2 months ago

So say I'm out for a jog in the AZ... I never carry my wallet. A cop pulls over and says there was a robbery reported in the area. No ID = no proof that I'm here legally, and he can detain me if he's the least suspicious, right? What's to protect me?

Oh, right, my pasty white skin...

... but it's not profiling, heavens no...

Look our whole immigration/labor/outsourcing snake-tangle has been building for a while now, and need to be addressed. But throwing some totalitarian bullfeces at Hispanics ain't the way to go about it, not by a long shot, and I damn sure don't want to see anyone in favor of this ever again shouting about the need for "limited government" or Tea Partying-down.

Sheesh. Y'all are going to screw this up the way you screwed up drugs, guns, prostitution, and every other vice you've blackmarketed. You fight this stuff on the demand side, otherwise the supply will just keep rolling in.

woodscolt 5 years, 2 months ago

trog says

"The suspect must already be pulled over for an infraction in order to ask for a green card, or any other documentation."

Whether the suspect was pulled over for the mystery infraction as you suggest doesn't mean a thing. Lots of cops will make up this infraction and its the person who is pulled over's word against the cops. Who do you think wins that, especially in Maricopa county. If you answered the cop, your a winner. Now consider a right wing wacko cop like the sheriff from Maricopa County uses racial profiling and pulls someone over and then fabricates the claim that they were pulled over for not using a turn signal. Racial profiling will be used because these right wing wackos are on a mission bigger than truth and god is on their side, just ask them.

It is very naive to think racial profiling will not be used. Why, the guy who claims to have helped write the law was even willing to lie in this article when he didn't even have to. Just the depths these people have no problem descending to.

Corrie Lundberg 5 years, 2 months ago

Thank you for being one of the only people to comment on this to have actually done their work in reading the details of the law.

As much as the law may seem harsh, it does come very close to Federal law and makes more sense than half of the laws the U.S. currently enforces.

Informed opinions are wonderful, so thanks again.

mom_of_three 5 years, 2 months ago

Oh, yeah, it explicitly forbids racial profiling....that'll make'em feel better.

Trog 5 years, 2 months ago

Beo, that is correct, however you cannot produce an I.D you can be locked up until they find out who you are, correct???????????????/

Trog 5 years, 2 months ago

My basic point is if you commit an infraction in a car, or a disorderly conduct beef then the cops have a right to ask you for an I.D..There is nothing in this law about racial profiling, or just walking up to random people and asking for their papers...Most people don't understand this but you can't argue ignorance..

BlackVelvet 5 years, 2 months ago

no. they cannot lock youi up simply for not having id. they need to produce probable cause you were committing or about to commit a crime.

gccs14r 5 years, 2 months ago

And if you're not an alien, but not white? Are you seriously proposing that all non-whites carry papers? Or do you want all of us to carry papers? The Third Reich tried villifying an imagined enemy and got its citizens to go along with living in a police state. You should look up what happened there.

gccs14r 5 years, 2 months ago

There is no requirement for persons to have a driver's license. Besides, as I have said elsewhere, unless there is a clear need ahead of time, I do not carry a wallet or ID of any kind unless I am going to drive.

onemansopinion 5 years, 2 months ago

AZ Senate Bill 1070: A law officer, without a warrant, may arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the United States.

I hope the Arizona police are thoroughly trained on this, because the OPPORTUNITY exists for abuse. I do not want to see good officers have to worry about potential lawsuits of violations of civil rights because a bill is so vaguely written that it can't be uniformly enforced.

gccs14r 5 years, 2 months ago

The cops can' t arrest someone because they think they may break the law. There is still supposed to be a presumption of innocence in this country. I can walk around all day carrying a brick. Unless and until I heave it with intent to damage persons or property or threaten to do same, there is no offense for which I may be arrested.

lounger 5 years, 2 months ago

note how Kansan Kris Kobach has the initials K.K.K.. I would not be a bit suprised...

beatrice 5 years, 2 months ago

Brown people -- Republicans don't trust you. You are all suspect because of the color of your skin. Please remember this come No-vember.

Jay Keffer 5 years, 2 months ago

Posting the same thing twice - didn't you rant against this very thing?

Pillow biter......

grammaddy 5 years, 2 months ago

i GUESS WE SHOULD REMOVE THE PLAQUE AT THE sTATUE OF lIBERTY THAT SAYS, "gIVE US YOUR TIRED, YOUR POOR, YOUR HUDDLED MASSES YEARNING TO BE FREE..."

lounger 5 years, 2 months ago

lawrenceguy40 this is assinine. I am of Native blood so would you please hop on the first plane to where ever your invading country blood came from and not return. Sounds pretty mean and lame, ey? Well so does your comment!

Jimo 5 years, 2 months ago

How many times is "law professor" Kobach going to propose laugh out loud quack legal theories?

I knew a long time ago he was an idiot. I just never realized what a burn in hell, racist bigot he was.

woodscolt 5 years, 2 months ago

Appearance as one factor: As in racial profiling? The very nature of the law and the attitude and behavior of these people behind the law tells you that they don't give a rats a$$ about the law or if they use racial profiling . They don't care about probable cause, probable cause is your word against these wacko cops in front of a wacko judge. I'm betting a great deal of Kobachs donated time at $300 an hour was discussing how to get away with racial proviling and skirting probable cause as well as any other law that may serve to obscure their mission . Their only concern about the law is if it gets in the way of a conviction.

Mike Ford 5 years, 2 months ago

nice to see that kansas loans out it's nutjobs to other states. I wonder how all of the Hopis, Dine', Yavapai, Havasupai, Huavapai, Na' Dene', Tohono, Od'dham, Paiute, Pima, and Yaqui people feel about all of the Anglos who came in illegally and seized their land and water rights in the 19th century and didn't allow them to vote in U.S. elections until 1951, 27 years after other tribal people got the right to vote in this country? The Yaquis and Tohono Od'dham peoples live on both sides of the border and have dual citizenship and yet get harrassed by borfer patrol anglos. People also forget that Mexico is a Spanish colonial designation. Tarahumaras, Seris, Mixtecs, Olmecs, Aztecs, and Zacatecas people are all indigenous peoples. Thirty percent of Mexico is full blood indians from many tribes. Both sides of colonialism must love what these map boundaries have accomplished since California, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada, Texas, and parts of Oklahoma and Kansas used to be part of Mexico until 1847. Indigenous Mexicans are coming to areas that were once theirs anyway. Good history, but do dumblicans and LEDs listen. Probably not. Barry's probably coming up with some dumb pantone line anyway, right.

preebo 5 years, 2 months ago

This statute runs afoul of the 4th Amendment. Mr. Kobach should have seen this coming, but my guess is that he did, and is challenging this interpretation. I'd be hard pressed to see this stand up to the Constitutionality test. Not surprised that a conservative (from Yale Law) would try something this egregious. It's hard to buy their (Neo-Conservatives) intellectual honesty on individual freedom and less government intrusion, WHEN THEY WRITE A LAW THAT DOES EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE!

zzgoeb 5 years, 2 months ago

Anyone in the US NOT of Native American decent, is an illegal alien! I wonder what nation Kobach's family came from? Oh, and yeah we've heard the "but they were legal immigrants"...oh were they? There were no immigration laws until the early 20th century.

This is sad moment in our history, and Mr. Kobach should be ashamed of this unpatriotic act.

jafs 5 years, 2 months ago

The question, it seems to me, is whether the search is "unreasonable" or not.

That will most likely be decided by the courts at some point.

Some practical questions:

Is a driver's license enough proof of citizenship? What if you don't drive - can you get a state ID? Will the police be able to distinguish fake ID's?

If I lived in Arizona, I'd make sure I had correct ID on me at all times. I generally always have my wallet with driver's license on me now - it wouldn't be much of a hardship.

gatekeeper 5 years, 2 months ago

You have to show your birth cert or green card. Drivers license, ss card, nothing else works.

gatekeeper 5 years, 2 months ago

They have already taken a legal USA resident into custody because of this law. A truck driver was taken at a weigh station because he is latino. He had his commercial drivers license and told them his SS #, but he was handcuffed and taken into custody until his wife could get his birth cert. So, anyone that is any shade of brown now has to carry their birth cert? Those of you that support this law, do you carry your b.c. every where you go? http://guanabee.com/2010/04/american-truck-driver-illegal-alien-arizona-sb1070/

Hell, even Karl Rove says "He thinks there are going to be some constitutional problems with this bill."

People who aren't very familiar with the border areas don't realize that there are actually a lot of Mexican tourists who visit the US, mainly to shop. AZ gets 24 million legal MX tourists a year and they estimate because of this tourism there are 7K jobs available to USA workers. Now, MX has issued a travel warning to it's citizens.

Many groups are now boycotting AZ. This is going to really hurt their economy until the bill is overturned in the courts as being unconstitutional, which is going to happen.

And the police hate the bill. They don't have the resources for this and now if a crime is committed and only illegals witnessed it or know who did it, they won't come forward. Prior to the law, they did come forward because the local police weren't concerned about their citizenship status, they were concerned with solving the crime.

pooter 5 years, 2 months ago

How about some facts.

They haven't taken anybody into custody because of this law nor could they because this law is not even in effect yet.

After standard questioning the truck driver was arrested by Federal Immigration and Custom Enforcement officers and held at ICE headquarters until his wife could bring his Birth Certificate proving his legal status, which, according to an ICE representative, is standard procedure.

If you want to blame a law on this trucker's arrest blame Federal Immigration laws since obviously Arizona's new law had nothing to do with it.

*

akt2 5 years, 2 months ago

Wouldn't Arizona law enforcement know what is going on? Sheriff Joe Arpaio stated on Larry King this week that out of 200,000 arrests in his district, 34,000 were illegals. He also stated that 20% of those incarcerated in his jail are illegals. He went on to say that many are there for murder and other terrible crime. This is probably a drop in the bucket. And all Al Sharpton can rail on is that brown skinned people are having their rights violated. He'd probably stand at the border and hold their hand while they crossed into the US if you gave him a chance.

RonBurgandy 5 years, 2 months ago

Conservatives: Ok with big government...as long as it infringes on the rights of non white people.

Lisa Rasor 5 years, 2 months ago

Where's the "like" button on here? :-)

bruno2 5 years, 2 months ago

Wow, what a surprise, Kobach helped write a racist law? Kobach, Tancredo, same guy?

BigPrune 5 years, 2 months ago

It's already a Federal Law, they just made it a state law too, right?

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 2 months ago

"Kobach, Tancredo, same guy?"

Actually, Tancredo stated he thought the law went too far and was an overreach.

Unintended consequences are always lurking. Get rid of illegals, and food and meat prices skyrocket. The cheap labor for farmers and slaughter houses that illegals provide keeps our food prices low.

George W. Bush realized this. Thus his "amnesty" program for Mexican workers to "legally" cross the border to work in AZ, CA, and TX.

This is a good case of ideology trumping economics and reality, something so common on the right these days.

bruno2 5 years, 2 months ago

Tancredo said that? Wow, I am surprised...

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 2 months ago

"But the ultra-conservative icon worried that people would be "pulled over because [you] look like should be pulled over.""

Looks like he has since backtracked, saying he supports the law now.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/26/tom-tancredo-arizona-immi_n_552441.html

ModSquadGal 5 years, 2 months ago

It's about time. Until we start taking more serious steps like this, our country will be overrun and we will be outnumbered. The fact that illegal aliens in this country believe they have "rights" is an abomination to our Constitution. They have the RIGHT to go back to their own country, not to remain illegally in ours while getting free medical care, freedom from paying taxes and free education for their children. It's not about racism, and it certainly is not akin to anything Hitler did, people just love to add that spin to it to make it sound more grandiose. This is a necessary commitment to making our country the best it can be and to making people take responsibility for themselves. We can't even support all the LEGAL citizens who want something for nothing (not that we should anyway), we certainly don't need to add people who are here illegally to that tally. Aren't there enough people in this country not paying taxes and feeding off the government teat? Soon, they will outnumber those of us working hard to pay (or, overpay) our taxes and then the incentive to work will be gone!

In any other country, illegals of any nation, race, color, etc. are weeded out and sent packing. In other countries there are strict rules regarding non-citizens (or even NEW citizens) owning land, getting an education, taxation, etc. Why NOT in America? Why are we so anxious to just let anybody in and give them all the benefits we enjoy? It's not an acceptable way to conduct ourselves in this day and age. That's just the reality of the situation.

jafs 5 years, 2 months ago

gatekeeper,

If that's true, it's a bit more of a hassle, but I'd do it.

The only problem I see is if somebody steals my wallet and they get my birth certificate and driver's license - they could do a bit of damage with those two before I catch them.

mizzou_fan01 5 years, 2 months ago

i feel this will do more harm than good in the long run, cause no matter how good nature law it may be you will always have some police officer that is on a power trip no matter where u go. and also dont forget that some native american people tend to look like mexicans also. there's so many problems that can arise from this law being passed just for the sake of getting a few illegal immigrants. is it really worth it.

KUBlue0809 5 years, 2 months ago

Great! Looks like Texas could follow. About time we kick the tax-evading illegals outta here.

bruno2 5 years, 2 months ago

They pay all the taxes you pay, and more, because they don't file returns and don't get social security...

citizen0123 5 years, 2 months ago

how do they pay taxes without identification and social security cards.without those they cant pay taxes.therefore they cant collect social security. THEY ARE ILLEGAL.IT IS AGAINST THE LAW.WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU WHEN YOU BREAK THE LAW?SHOULD WE LOOK THE OTHER WAY JUST BECAUSE THEIR SKIN COLOR IS BROWN? APPARENTLY SO.

gccs14r 5 years, 2 months ago

Some of them use fake docs and have earnings withheld. Others are in the underground economy, but they still pay property and sales taxes.

Fix the problem by arresting the people who hire illegals. If there are no jobs to be had here, illegal immigrants won't come.

Jennifer Alexander 5 years, 2 months ago

If the US Government can't get illegal immigration under control, the only other option I see is for states to speak up for themselves and get strong laws put in place. I commend Arizona for creating a tough law. If you are here illegally, you need to go back to where you come from and enter the country legally. That is not too much to ask I don't think.

Bossa_Nova 5 years, 2 months ago

this is boring. i wish Marion was here tooffer his comments and get things stirred up. the ljworld.com just doesnt seem to be fun anymore without Marion.

Jennifer Alexander 5 years, 2 months ago

Where did Marion go? I just realized I haven't seen a post from him lately.

Bossa_Nova 5 years, 2 months ago

wilbur, if you knew anything about the border you wouldnt say that. the border patrol have no choice but to accept the bribes from the illegal activity on the border. i know it may seem rather simple and easy to just be a good border patrol agent and do your job, but the drug smugglesr have a lot of money (more than you can imagine), a sophisticated crime network with sophisticated weapons and they are really, really nasty and use both sides of the border to their benefit. most likely the border patrol agents that you claim to have seen taking bribes were given a choice to either take the bribe and live in peace or not take the bribe and the drug mafia murders him or even worse his family. it happens all too often. if you ever lived on the border you would already know that.

yankeevet 5 years, 2 months ago

Excellent job; well done............Kris!!! "No quarter asked; and no quarter given" Send those illegals back over the border..........and take their drugs; and tequila with them............however they can leave the Coronas.........

yankeevet 5 years, 2 months ago

and oh yes; take their crappy flags with them also...........

Mean_Green 5 years, 2 months ago

That's what the Border Patrol is for. However, our hands are extrememly tied because of D.C.'s politics. Trust me, the Border Patrol loves catching aliens and narcotics. If they were to turn us loose on major cities in the interior of the US, we could clean up many streets and neighborhoods given our immigration authority. Even though we are "Federal Agents" with nationwide authority, the higher-ups only let us work within 100 air miles from the border. The people living in the interior of the US have no idea what we go through day in and day out on the border. It's a whole different world here on the border. We truely are at war on the border but no one hears about it in the interior.

gccs14r 5 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, you guys are the *ssholes who vandalized my truck with your drug dog several years ago when I was camping in Organ Pipe. Cost my insurance company $1400. They didn't bother trying to collect from you.

nergie 5 years, 2 months ago

Immigration falls under the purvue of the US Congress per the Constitution. Arizona law cannot supercede US Law on these types of issues. As for illegal immigration, there needs to be some action, but it can be done without States passing their own legislation.

As for all the comments in favor of this law, I find it amusing how easily we blame others for what is going. It is the classic belief of entitlement. When I grew up, no matter how menial the job was. It seems kids today feel entitled, and god forbid they actual work for something. We need to stop blaming others for our own mess, if you don't want illegals then don't hire them, be willing to pay the going wage for an American worker and deal with it.

I find it disheartening how easily we blame others today, without realizing we Americans are part of the problem. It is the same with the drug wars, let's stop our consumption and take away the lucrative nature of the trade. When there is no demand, there is no need for suppliers.

So let's think before we speak, another lost art in today's society, because as the saying goes when you point a finger at someone there are four pointing back at you. But, I guess this is too much for today's society where every Jane, Tom, Dick and Harry thinks they are right and everything should be focused around their needs.

Clark Coan 5 years, 2 months ago

Kobach is a real jerk. I recall when he spoke before the City Commission and urged them not to vote for the resolution calling for the reform of the Patriot Act. They paid attention and weakened the resolution further despite Kobach not even living in Lawrence. He did some dirty work for Bush as well.

missmagoo 5 years, 2 months ago

Thank you Mr. Kobach. Hopefully other states will follow suit.

I know there are so many out there who think this is a violation of our civil rights, this is an outrage.. blah blah blah.

Move to Arizona then call me in 6 months and see if you still feel the same. From someone who has lived in Arizona, this is long overdue. You have to see the border violence to believe it. Nogales used to be a nice border town to buy pottery and other goods. Now, it is a drug cartel controlled area similar to Juarez, and it's spilling over into the AZ side. Illegal border crossers are hiding out in Southern AZ. Some head out to CA, most go to Phoenix where there's less chance to be discovered. Regardless of whether or not the illegals cause more violence, ehhhh, that's not the point. Crossing the border illegally or being in this country is illegal and more steps should be taken to enforce these laws. End of story.

canusayduh 5 years, 2 months ago

I know I'll be slaughtered here for showing my ignorance, but I'm going to ask anyway. Can illegals legally get a driver's license? I ask because of this. If I get pulled over, I have to show ID, a driver's license, among other documentation, insurance, etc. That is my proof that I'm legal to drive in this state. I'm not Republican, and I don't pretend to be. But I wholeheartedly agree with this measure. If other mechanisms that have been put into place don't correct the issue of illegal immigration, maybe this one will. And isn't it kind of redundant to say being and illegal immigrant is going to be a crime? If they are already here illegally, isn't it already a crime? Just my thoughts...go ahead and butcher away...

Richard Payton 5 years, 2 months ago

Passenger's may be required to show I.D. and I've been asked for it a few times.

yankeevet 5 years, 2 months ago

If the illegals want too be violent; by burning the american flag; tearing up and burning everything; ...........just give me a minute; I'm reloading now..................

IndusRiver 5 years, 2 months ago

This sort of thing is always very frustrating to me. It's so frustrating because people of color might just be the people who, for instance, answer a 911 call. Society needs it's people, all of them, to survive and to function. And I'm willing to bet that if the police officer or the trauma surgeon or whatever is a person of color that nobody's going to care at that point. So there are times when people could not care less, and in that case then they could care less all of the time. Whites are not "supreme" over anybody. Never have been, and never will be. Get over it, grow up, and learn to live and play and work with others. Because nobody wants to babysit whining failures anymore! Remember something else here. Whites have been "running the world" for ever and now the sheer misery of their bass-ackward "laws" is global. Look at the whole world now if it doesn't just make you sick. Our little bubble, this biosphere that sustains us, is back to kill us. People like Kobach only work to sustain the world's evil and sickness for he has no higher goal in his life. Pity him, at best.

jafs 5 years, 2 months ago

Indus,

What on earth does your post have to do with the issue at hand?

Being in this country illegally is a crime, and should not be tolerated.

There is already a high level of unemployment, and it can only get worse the more illegal immigrants we let in/let stay here.

IndusRiver 5 years, 2 months ago

Us being in Iraq and Afghanistan is a crime. Unemployment is sky high there, too.

ivalueamerica 5 years, 2 months ago

A controversial new immigration law in Arizona might impact the vote in the mid-term elections later this year. For one, it could energize Hispanics and bring them out in large numbers to vote.

Kirk Larson 5 years, 2 months ago

I read an article suggesting that the whole purpose of this law is to intimidate Hispanic voters in AZ. Not long ago they did a big purge of the voter roles where they took people off with no justification. Remember like they did in Florida in 2000? With this law in place a lot of Hispanic folk will be wary of trying to get re-registered. I hope they overcome though.

Jennifer Alexander 5 years, 2 months ago

I must be out of the loop, but where did Marion go?

Jay Keffer 5 years, 2 months ago

Beo, you are the racist here. no doubt. Hang it up girl.

Fail.

kansasironworker 5 years, 2 months ago

well im sure this will just be lost in cyberspace. but here is something to ponder on. do you know a teacher can't ask a student if he or any person in his family is illeagal. it's against their rights. yeah many friends who are teachers. so we are forced to turn a blind eye. my mom was a school nurse for a few years at a school. one day a girl came in . my mom asked her where her glasses where. the girl said at home . she said well can ya bring them in tomorrow. the girl said im not going back to mexico for a few more months. just facts that make it easy and hard to enforce federal laws. it's easy to find them harder to do any thing about it. now why if they broke the laws do they have so many rights. here's a really good fact for ya to wrap your mind around. truck drivers have to have certain permits and class a b license to drive in the states. but a mexican driver can leagally drive a bigrig full of hazard material all over from mexico into the states with out it . ya can thank nafta for that scary piece of mind. how about this one on southwest blvd. a bus on it a sign says $99 to and from mexico. well that bus don't stopp going down nor comming back from mexico. how many can ya get on an old grey hound bus? how about looking for a show on tv about tribal border patrol officers and looking and paying attention to the carnage and destruction done by the drugs and human trafficing. we have laws but they only apply to federal worker to enforce them. the states and the local goverment should be able to enforce them or people will just bury the problem at the dumps. or under the soil at big jobs. hog farms need free food.

kansasironworker 5 years, 2 months ago

oh yes we as a land of immigrants. yes when the big waves came they came through Newyork every person signed a book and got legal papers to be here. times where tough and things did get rough at times. but we all spead out across this great land and we are running out of it fast. farms are smaller cities are larger the food supply can't continue to provide for us to keep multiplying like this. let alone the crime to keep getting worse. any crime no matter how big or small is still a crime. laws are made to be kept not broken when it's fits your needs. after 9/11 the border and the security was to be so tight. ya the airport went choke hold on every person. but the border never stopped being a flood gate. for any person who wanted to do us harm all they had to do was just walk in. drive the means to blow or kill as many people that they want. for way to long it's been just wait and see. the only people who really don't care make well over 100,000 a year per person. not combined wage. average person needs 40,000 with health care.to live the america way. but average wage is 24,000 with no health care. average house 80,000 to 200,000. so how does unemployment pay 320-420 max per week. oh ya banks gave bonus to the executives. workers none.

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 2 months ago

I truly am sorry for your lot in life, kansasironworker. You seem to be mad at the world, from illegal immigrants to terrorists to corporate fat cats.

Maybe you should vote for people who want to make your lot better. They are called democrats.

I realize that your are blinded to your own economic realities by ideologies thrown up in your face by the right wing. Distracted by illegals, god, guns, gays, and abortion.

Ideology trumps economic reality in America today. As long as you continue to vote against your own economic interests, your lot will not change and will in fact get worse.

jaywalker 5 years, 2 months ago

I don't know about "a lot", but I can guarantee you they're doing it legally.

Ames 5 years, 2 months ago

Way to Kobach, your a true AMERICAN hero.

Jay Keffer 5 years, 2 months ago

Beo, so much for capitalization. You are a one-trick-pony, girl. And you remain 'schooled'.

Melinda Black 5 years, 2 months ago

Kobach may have just cost the GOP votes in November. Political scientists predict this will energize Hispanics to organize and turn out the vote against Republicans, even outside Arizona. Democrats should thank Kris for helping his team shoot themselves in the foot yet again.

gccs14r 5 years, 2 months ago

The only reason most Hispanics vote Republican is because they're mostly conservative Catholics who oppose abortion. Eventually they'll figure out that the Republicans aren't going to get rid of abortion, since that's what they dangle in front of people to keep them in the fold, and start voting for people who actually care about what happens to them.

jaywalker 5 years, 2 months ago

"Democrats should thank Kris for helping his team shoot themselves in the foot yet again."

Yeah, 'cuz this law is all about party politics. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the incredible illegal immigration problem. Nooo, just a Republican ploy to garner votes in the next election.

For the love...

Ricky_Vaughn 5 years, 2 months ago

The words Gestapo and KGB come to mind...

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