Advertisement

Opinion

Opinion

Arizona law is xenophobic, ineffective

April 27, 2010

Advertisement

Now that Arizona has enacted the most xenophobic anti-immigration law in this country, get ready for the big Hispanic exodus.

But it won’t be an exodus back to Mexico or to Central America. It will be a stampede toward Miami, Los Angeles, Chicago and other cities with huge Hispanic populations, where Latinos will be able to live without fear of being stopped by police because of the color of their skin or for speaking Spanish.

According to a bill passed by the Arizona legislature and signed into law Friday, police officers would have to arrest anyone when they have “reasonable suspicion” that the person does not have valid immigration papers. And it would allow anyone to sue local or state officials who they believe aren’t carrying out the law.

In effect, the law would unleash an indiscriminate hunt for undocumented immigrants. Its victims could include U.S. citizens who happen to be brown-skinned or prefer to speak Spanish.

There are five major reasons this Nazi-era-reminiscent legislation should be stopped in Arizona and kept from being copied by other states.

First, it won’t stop undocumented immigrants from coming to the United States. As long as the U.S. per capita income is more than three times higher than Mexico’s — $46,400 vs. $13,500, to be precise — Mexicans and other Latin Americans will continue crossing the border one way or another.

Barring a greater economic integration that could benefit both the United States and its neighbors, nothing will stop Mexicans and other Latin Americans from seeking a better life if they can’t support their families in their own country.

Second, it will not make Arizona safer. On the contrary, it will divert police resources away from fighting crime and will compel undocumented immigrants — as well as U.S.-born Hispanics who won’t want to be hassled by police — not to report crimes.

The current Arizona anti-immigration hysteria was partly sparked by the killing of a rancher near the Mexican border last month. The anti-immigration law’s supporters say the killing was carried out by an undocumented migrant, and that they want to prevent similar crimes.

But the Arizona Police Chiefs Association and others opposed the measure, saying it will drain law enforcement resources and prevent witnesses from stepping forward. By the same token, U.S. authorities in 2007 publicly honored 26-year-old undocumented immigrant Manuel Jesus Cordova for rescuing a 9-year-old whose mother had died in an accident. Would Cordova do so under the new law?

Third, it will hurt Arizona’s economy. The new law is likely to be struck down by the courts as unconstitutional, but only after long and costly legal battles.

In addition, a flight of many of the estimated 470,000 undocumented Latinos from Arizona and the closing of some of the more than 35,000 Hispanic-owned businesses in the state will drain the state’s already ailing finances.

If Latinos leave, “they will take their tax dollars, businesses and purchasing power with them.” These are higher than the cost of state services they use, the Immigration Policy Center advocacy group says.

Fourth, if more U.S. states follow Arizona’s lead, there may be a Latin American tourism backlash. Many of the more than 13 million Mexicans, 2.5 million South Americans and 860,000 Central Americans who travel to the United States every year may think twice before visiting a country where they may be stopped by police just because of the color of their skin or the language they speak.

Fifth, and perhaps most important, the law is morally wrong and profoundly un-American. The United States, despite the decline of its international image immediately after the Iraq War, is once again being seen positively by a majority of countries, according to a BBC poll released last week. Racial profiling laws would no doubt hurt the U.S. image abroad.

My opinion: Arizona’s new law is not only legally dubious, economically counterproductive and morally repugnant, but it will do nothing to solve the U.S. immigration crisis. The solution is for the Obama administration to push for its much-promised immigration reform this year. That would help both secure the borders and give a path to legalization to more than 10 million undocumented immigrants.

Otherwise, headline-seeking local politicians in other states will seek to fill the vacuum with similarly xenophobic laws, with not much more effect than producing a big Hispanic exodus — within the United States.

— Andres Oppenheimer is a Latin America correspondent for the Miami Herald. aoppenheimer@miamiherald.com

Comments

Brent Garner 4 years, 8 months ago

OK. Let me see if I understand this guy. Basically, he is saying it is ok for the illegal immigrants to be here in violation of our own laws and wrong for us to try to enforce those laws? Seems strange to me. As for losing economic benefit by all those "illegals" going home, consider this. Recently Mohawk Carpet had to settle a class action lawsuit brought by its own employees over the firm's practice of hiring "undocumented workers"--illegal immigrants. The main thrust of that lawsuit was that the hiring of illegals suppresses wages. I also note that all of the allegations made in this editorial are mere suppositions presented as facts. The law hasn't even gone into effect yet and already the above columnist has facts about how it will be implemented. What does he have? A time machine? No, what he has is a bias--a left wing, politically correct bias. Illegal is wrong! As I have stated before, if you are here legally, welcome! If you are here illegally, go home!

Thinking_Out_Loud 4 years, 8 months ago

"Basically, he is saying it is ok for the illegal immigrants to be here in violation..."

He's saying nothing of the sort. He's saying this law is poor public policy for five reasons. His references to Naziism are extreme and unconscionable, but neither his thesis nor his rhetoric excuse illegal immigrants.

Actually, reading your response...I don't believe you have actually read the column.

oldvet 4 years, 8 months ago

"It will be a stampede toward Miami, Los Angeles, Chicago and other cities with huge Hispanic populations,"

Until the citizens of those states also get weary of supporting illegal aliens and put their own laws into effect... I also wonder if it isn't the people at the lower ends of the economic scale who are hurt the hardest by the illegals who have to take the lowest wages under the table and thus deny entry jobs to others who are legal residents...

papillon 4 years, 8 months ago

As someone that grew up in Lawrence and recently lived in Tempe, AZ for a few years, I'd like to point out that the legislation passed previous to this law actually affected the influx of illegal immigrants. It allowed prosecution of any business owner that knowingly hired illegal immigrants. Many, many businesses got scared and wouldn't hire without the proper ID. As a result, many immigrants left the area - the Phoenix news was full of articles about the change in immigration patterns. Also, many immigrants decided it was too tough to stay and went home. They were quoted saying that, in the newspaper.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 8 months ago

my vote for stupidest post of the day.

If you hire illegal immigrants, you are a problem.

If you try to fight illegal immigration by racist means, you are a problem.

If you disrespect and disreguard the US Constitution, you are a criminal as well, and you are a problem.

If you are a lawmaker in a state in financial crisis, and you pass a law knowing full well it will not hold up to Constitutional challenges, costing the state millions of dollars in the process, you are the problem.

Where you fail America, Thuja, and fail badly, is you do not believe in America, and you do not have faith that there are ways to solve the problems of illegal immigration and maintain the integrity of the American Constitution.

That makes you a traitor, period.

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

Give us a break, Hannity. Unwrap yourself from the flag, and please genuflect when you do so.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 8 months ago

Hmmm, what part of the Constitution is expendable to you?

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

Yesterday it was I was "denying" something; today parts of the Constitution are "expendable" to me? What's wrong with you, value?

remember_username 4 years, 8 months ago

I agree - yours is the stupidest post of the day.

rtwngr 4 years, 8 months ago

First, this law only enforces existing federal laws.

Where is the racism in this law. If a person is stopped for probable cause (being latino is not a probable cause) they must show proper documentation. A driver's license for example. If they don't have one then they can be questioned further about the legality of their presence. ALL aliens, properly documented by the federal government, are required to carry documentation with them at ALL times. This federal law has been on the books since 1940.

I wouldn't be too sure about whether this will or will not hold up to constitutional challenges because it only enforces a federal law already in existence.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 8 months ago

if your post were true, then you might have a point.

The law allows for demanding citizenship for legal contact.

If you are a witness to a crime, you might have to prove you are a citizen.

If a police officer says good morning and you reply, that is legal contact and the cop can demand your papers.

A military vet who is 5th generation American could get deported if he walks out of the house without his birth certificate.

Violating both the 4th and 14th amendments.

You hate the Constitution and that means only one thing, you are NOT a loyal American.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 8 months ago

I have always advocated that.

If there were no jobs, there would be no illegal immigrants.

And we would be more consistent in asking Americans to respect the law, and not just the illegal immigrants.

Throw their employers in jail and fine them millions of dollars to boot, and in a case like WalMart, fine them a billion dollars.

cowboy 4 years, 8 months ago

"There was very deep prejudice against Irish-Americans during the 19th century, especially as more immigrants came into the United States. Many Americans considered the Irish as dirty, stupid and lazy. Newspaper cartoonists often contributed to this image by drawing Irishmen as looking like apes with a jutting jaw and sloping forehead. Newspapers also wrote about Irish people using the derogatory term of “Paddy.”

Americans also blamed the Irish immigrants for causing economic problems. They felt that the great numbers of Irish workers would put Americans out of work or lower wages. Americans felt that the increased number of people would mean taxes would rise due to additional needs for police, fire, health, sanitation, schools and poorhouses.

Consequently, it became acceptable to discriminate against the Irish. Many job posters and newspaper ads ended with “No Irish Need Apply.” Hotels and restaurants may have had signs stating “No Irish Permitted in this Establishment.” In 1851-1852, railroad contractors in New York advertised for workers and promised good pay. When mostly Irish applied, the pay was lowered to fifty-five cents a day. When the workers protested, the militia was called in to force the men to accept. (M., p. 322)"

puddleglum 4 years, 8 months ago

Irish are pretty much dirty stupid lazy (and drunk). everybody still knows this. but since they are easily taken advantage of, they are permitted residence.

papillon 4 years, 8 months ago

Were they coming here against known laws? I don't think that we had immigration laws in place at the time, and therefore, although the Irish were unwanted, they were not here illegally.

Those coming into Arizona are coming here with full knowledge that they are violating our laws, and don't care about that fact a bit. The money they make is worth more than the fact that they are here ILLEGALLY.

cowboy 4 years, 8 months ago

A curious thought , who occupied the arizona territory prior to the immigrants coming in ? Mexicans and Native Americans. Which immigrants should really be sent home ?

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

One of the dumbest 'assertions' that keeps arising on these boards. Fine, cowboy. We'll put you in charge of the genealogy task force; find out where all legal Arizonans come from, and we'll ship 'em out. What say we do it world wide, too? Everyone in South America, save the native tribes of course, needs to sail on back to Spain and Portugal. Leave Australia to the aborigines, everyone else on a boat back to England. Forget the fact the world has a few billion more inhabitants than it did back when no one knew what the hell a boat was, and forget the fact that men have been fighting over land since they first stood on two legs; everyone back to whence they came! It's certainly worked well for Israel. .

Dumb da dumb dumb duuuumb!

papillon 4 years, 8 months ago

If they had won the war, then they would have the say. Sadly, they didn't and we killed them off in genocide or ran them off and took the land. I hate that it was done that way, but the current situation is that they no longer have the land - we do. We have laws about it. There are national boundaries that they cross to come here.

And note that almost half of the illegal immigrants are from other central american countries, in addition to Mexico. And those immigrants never had access to this land.

headdoctor 4 years, 8 months ago

Google is your friend. Do a little searching and you will discover that many of those so call illegals are paying taxes.

cowboy 4 years, 8 months ago

"The fate of numerous Italian Americans was no different than that of other ethnic groups targeted by lynch mobs. The most infamous lynching of Italians occurred on March 14, 1891 in New Orleans. This event claimed eleven victims and was one of the largest multiple lynchings in American history. The catalyst for this tragedy was the unsolved murder of popular city police superintendent David Hennessy. Hennessy’s murder led to a roundup of the “usual suspects” -- in this case Italians. Those detained, immigrants from Sicily and the southern portions of Italy -- possessed swarthy complexions and were viewed with suspicion and contempt by the white protestant elite ruling New Orleans. Akin to Negroes, Italians were “not quite white” and subject to a racial prejudice only slightly subtler -- mingled with a baseless and deliberately orchestrated Mafia scare associating most Italian Americans with a vast criminal organization that did not exist in the New Orleans of that era."

"The morning of March 14 was bright and sunny. By ten o’clock, a crowd of thousands was gathered by the Parish Jail, with many of them shouting, “Yes, yes, hang the dagoes!” The prison was soon attacked by a carefully selected band culled by the mobs’ leaders comprised of about twenty-five well-armed men. With battering rams ringing in their ears, the prisoners were both trapped and doomed. In the prison yard where several Italians were clustered together at one end, the hit squad of lynchers opened fire from about twenty feet away. More than a hundred rifle shots and shotgun blasts were fired into six helpless men, tearing their bodies apart. When the firing stopped, the squad inspected their victims. A man saw Pietro Monasterio’s hand twitch and yelled, “Hey, this one’s alive!” “Give him another load, “ another gunman answered. “Can’t, I ain’t got the heart.” Then one of the men walked up to the body, aimed a shotgun point-blank, and literally blew the top of Monasterio’s head away. Someone laughed. There were two or three cheers. One or two men turned their faces away, looking sick."

skinny 4 years, 8 months ago

Arizona is just enforcing the laws that are already on the books. The state of Kansas enforces it, maybe not as aggressive, but it is enforced. Manhattan enforces it more aggressive then Lawrence. So what's the difference?

gccs14r 4 years, 8 months ago

People go where the work is. Start putting people who hire undocumented immigrants in jail and that will fix the problem permanently.

papillon 4 years, 8 months ago

That was the point of the first law put into place. And this one takes it further, stating that it will be a crime to have an illegal immigrant in your car - thus discouraging construction and day labor workers from being in AZ.

number3of5 4 years, 8 months ago

If this law says anybody can be stopped, that means they can stop Asians, African Americans, Iranians, Indians, Native Americans, Irish, Italians, Austraulians, Canadians, English, French, or any other person in Arizona, not just Spanish speaking people. So, why all the hubbub. I thought that an officer of the law had the right to stop someone if they had a reasonable doubt about them obeying laws already. Maybe I am naive, but anyone who enters this country illegally should be arrested and given as many days in jail as they have been here. After that time they should be deported.

Graczyk 4 years, 8 months ago

Yep, you are naive if you think the cops are going to question white people about their citizenship.

whats_going_on 4 years, 8 months ago

Even if they did, I'd just love to see the UPROAR afterwards.

number3of5 4 years, 8 months ago

If this law says anybody can be stopped, that means they can stop Asians, African Americans, Iranians, Indians, Native Americans, Irish, Italians, Austraulians, Canadians, English, French, or any other person in Arizona, not just Spanish speaking people. So, why all the hubbub. I thought that an officer of the law had the right to stop someone if they had a reasonable doubt about them obeying laws already. Maybe I am naive, but anyone who enters this country illegally should be arrested and given as many days in jail as they have been here. After that time they should be deported.

yankeevet 4 years, 8 months ago

Glenn Beck • Fox News host, radio host, author, speaker • $32 million


How he parties: In the past decade Glenn Beck has transformed himself from a regional radio shock jock to a national multiplatform money-making juggernaut. And in the past year, he's used his vast influence to help organize and motivate the Tea Party movement. Beck traveled to San Antonio, Texas, for the inaugural tax-day Tea Party protests in April 2009 and taped his show as he participated. The Tea Party protests in Washington in September drew inspiration from Beck's 9-12 Project, which Beck describes as an effort to reclaim the spirit of national unity after the 2001 terrorist attacks. Beck often dedicates his television and radio shows to articulating the Tea Party worldview, such as concern with the growth of the federal government and the national debt, as well as perceived similarities between President Obama's liberalism and European socialism, Soviet communism, and even German Nazism.

How it pays: Beck was blunt with Forbes Magazine when discussing his success. "I could give a flying crap about the political process," he deadpanned. "We're an entertainment company." Forbes said that Beck's company, Mercury Radio Arts, raked in $32 million from March 2009 to March 2010. That included $2 million from Fox News for his daily television show, $10 million for his daily radio show, $3 million for speaking events, $4 million from his online operation, and a whopping $13 million in print endeavors with Simon & Schuster (books and a magazine). Beck dominated the New York Times bestseller list in 2009, with three separate No. 1 books and a total of 3.5 million books sold.

remember_username 4 years, 8 months ago

Excellent! Perfect name for the company. Mercury makes you crazy before it kills you.

whats_going_on 4 years, 8 months ago

"I could give a flying crap about the political process,"

So the douche is just doing this to ruffle people's feathers and rile up a bunch of already teetering bunch of convervatives? Classy.

9070811 4 years, 8 months ago

Free trade, Structural Adjustments Policies and little to no labor laws.

Peter Macfarlane 4 years, 8 months ago

It's nice to see that racism is still alive, well, and thriving in America and that we do not even know when we practice it (using economics, of course, or supposed lawlessness as our rationale for behaving the way we do). What would Jesus say about this? Hmmm....

whats_going_on 4 years, 8 months ago

pretty sure if he existed, he wasn't white...sooooooooo, not sure.

rtwngr 4 years, 8 months ago

Jesus would say, "Render unto Caesar what is Ceasar's and render unto God what is God's". Meaning, you are called to obey civil authority if the laws are just. Entering the U.S. illegally is a federal crime.

sibkiss 4 years, 7 months ago

Maybe Jesus would say,paraphrasing what he did say in John 10..."if they come in any other way but the front door, through the keeper, they are a thief and a robber. The thief comes to steal, to kill and to destroy"

Over 25,000 killed on American soil since 9/11/2001 by illegal aliens. That doesn't include the reported robberies, rapes, kidnappings (Phoenix is the #2 in kidnapping in the world because of what? Illegals or citizens of Az?)
This isn't racism, its self defence. Where I live, illegal aliens have caused the felony court cases to double. The drunk driving and drug trafficking is off the charts. And not all illegal aliens are from Mexico. On 9/11 the Fed reports that they were all illegal aliens who killed over 2000 Americans in one morning.

The illegals and the workforce is another topic of discussion.

akt2 4 years, 8 months ago

Law enforcement in Arizona knows more about illegal aliens from Mexico, than anyone in Washington D.C. will ever know.

Kyle Reed 4 years, 8 months ago

Not all illegal aliens coming from Mexico are Mexican. akt2 didn't say anything about brown skin moron.

jonas_opines 4 years, 8 months ago

"Before you flame, I want all illegals to be deported, anchor babies forbidden, and an end to legal immigration, too."

So pure protectionism, then?

meggers 4 years, 8 months ago

The irony is that many of the people who defend this racist and likely unconstitutional law also rail against what they perceive to be increased government intrusion in their lives.

If you support this, I presume you won't be opposed to checkpoints on every corner. After all, there are plenty of people walking around with bench warrants, unpaid parking fines, and delinquent taxes. Or maybe they're just walkng down Mass St. after having consumed four or five beers at Free State. Public intoxication is a crime, too, you know. But I guess you're ok with it as long as only brown people are being harrassed.

mickeyrat 4 years, 8 months ago

Another irony is how the Tea Beckers are so so sensitive to being called out on racism. I might be tempted to ask one what the "reasonable suspicion" of illegality might be, but probably would only get the circular logic of "most illegals are Mexican" --> "dark skin, Spanish-speaking" --> "reasonable suspicion" = "not racist."

It could all be avoided if all Americans were required to have a citizenship card to work, but why stop at employment? It would be even more effective at solving the illegal immigration "crisis" if a Citizenship Card were required to purchase goods (that way "we" could get rid of the unemployed illegals, too). That way the problem is solved permanently, and since it would be "universal" (as it were), the Tea Beckers wouldn't have to suffer being called racist.

standuporget 4 years, 8 months ago

It could all be avoided if all Americans were required to have a citizenship card to work, but why stop at employment? ----------------------------------------------------------S.S. CARD--------------------------------------------------------

citizen0123 4 years, 8 months ago

why dont you sneak across the border illegally(any border)and see how you are treated in that country? also,it appears,that you have a racial bias against any one whos skin is not brown. as i have said before,why dont you post your address so they can come and live with you and your family.and while your at it,add them to your insurance policy and give one of them your job?that way at least they will be covered by your insurance and i can quit paying for their health care.or better yet,if you dont like the laws of the land being enforced,move out.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 8 months ago

Be legal or be gone, whether you come from Norway or Peru.

rtwngr 4 years, 8 months ago

What's fascist about having to have a valid driver's license to operate a vehicle in the State of Arizona? What is fascist about having a valid social security number in order to work in the U.S.? These are forms of documentation. By the way, I happen to carry a certified copy of my birth certificate with me at all times. I have since I enlisted in the Navy when I was 18. I had to have it for my recruiter and my dad told me to hang on to it because, he said, "You never know when you might need it." Wise man, my father.

BorderRuffian 4 years, 8 months ago

Clouds and obfuscation, evasion and misdirection! The article starts out using the term, "xenophobia," a derisive term clearly with the intent on placing the blame and burden on us who are already contributing US citizens, and not on those who are breaking the law. As well, the term is misused here. Xenophobia is about being unreasonably afraid of aliens. I, along with millions of other contributing Americans, am not afraid, I'm just darned mad. I'm mad that more and more of my tax dollars are going to support millions of illegal immigrants, the vast majority of which pay NO taxes. I'm darned mad that I have to "push 1 for English, push two for Espagnol." Afraid of them? Hell no - I'm just plain sick and tired of paying someone else's way so that they can live and work here for free while I have to pay twice as much.

Oppenheimer further obfuscates by using the term "undocumented immigrants" in place of "illegal aliens." The whole point of the Arizona legislation is to remove those who are here illegally. Unlawfully. In other words, those who are already breaking the law - quite willingly and quite knowingly. It is not about descriminating against "undocumented immigrants," it IS all about removing law-breakers and criminals who are sapping our society.

I am NOT a xenophobe. When immigrants come into this country legally, when those same immigrants pay the same taxes and share the same responsibilities I do, then I am entirely willing to welcome them with open arms.

And why should it be considered as unconstitutional or wrong for the citizens of Arizona to enforce laws that are already in place?

BorderRuffian 4 years, 8 months ago

Guess what, Vertigo? Each and everytime I have been newly employeed for the last couple of decades, I have been required to show proof of US citizenship. And yes, I am caucasian, and my family roots go back at least four generations - all legal citizens. As well, at least Kansas State law requires proof of being here legally, as well as a Social Security number in order to obtain a State drivers license. Hence, each and every time I am stopped, I must present, in fact, proof of my residency.

I think your point is that since it is difficult to determine by sight who is and who is not a legal resident, we should eschew all attempts to enforce our laws on immigration. That is absurd.

bruno2 4 years, 8 months ago

Hey Border, fact check, illegals pay the same taxes you do; property taxes through rent, sales taxes when buying food and clothing etc., and yes, income taxes and social security, usually under an alias or fake SSN, which usually means they don't file and don't get a return and they don't get social security benefits when they retire, so they actually pay MORE taxes than you.

bruno2 4 years, 8 months ago

Clearly, you are, or can't you read?

jonas_opines 4 years, 8 months ago

"I'm darned mad that I have to "push 1 for English, push two for Espagnol.""

That's terrible, I feel for your horrible inconvenience.

"When immigrants come into this country legally, when those same immigrants pay the same taxes and share the same responsibilities I do, then I am entirely willing to welcome them with open arms."

When it's easier for the ones who want to come here to do so legitimately, maybe there will be more of them that do. That won't happen, of course, because people want the entitlements they feel due to them by being born here, such as less competition and greater job security.

BorderRuffian 4 years, 8 months ago

Actually, I agree with you. So let's enforce the laws we have, set up the system so that every worker, regardless of residency status pays the same taxes, social security, hospitalization, etc. Then most of my objections would be null and void.

somedude20 4 years, 8 months ago

Why worry about the anti-immigration law when we have Americans that use the system far worse than most illegals. Look around for the ones who contribute nothing to our society yet use up our resources. That is right, we have many natural born Americans who decide not to work and use social welfare to "get theirs" and that gets me a lot more angrier that someone who is taking their life in their own hands to cross the border looking for work. It is pathetic when you see some fat lazy American living off ouf tax payer's coattails and then see someone dying for work to take care of their familes.

whats_going_on 4 years, 8 months ago

I agree with you. Perhaps its because of where we live, but I see just as many, if not more, Americans who take advantage of the system (not to mention take advantage while abusing drugs, alcohol, and whatever else) than any other.

BorderRuffian 4 years, 8 months ago

I agree with that as well. EVERYONE should pay his or her way. There are too many leaches living off of our systems who never contribute to the common good. But that still should not obviate enforcing immigration laws or deporting those who are here illegally. One argument, however good, does not logically cancel out the other.

bruno2 4 years, 8 months ago

Shoeman, sounds like treason to me...

9070811 4 years, 8 months ago

This is particularly exciting because Obama thinks it is wrong. Which will undoubtedly win the hearts of many brown skinned people. Not all and I'm sure illegal immigration infuriates many immigrants granted legal status. However, it makes those with legal status pissed off that can be stopped and have precious time (that could be spent working, caring for fam etc). So my guess is that it is going to help Obama in 2012.

Thinking_Out_Loud 4 years, 8 months ago

Hideously vulgar and completely inappropriate simile there, Bob.

manbearpig 4 years, 8 months ago

The author of this article is either uninformed or disingenuous. He states that the law requires "police officers would have to arrest anyone when they have 'reasonable suspicion' that the person does not have valid immigration papers." As a prosecutor, I can tell you that, constitutionally, an arrest cannot be made for anything less than probable cause - a standard far above "reasonable suspicion". Further, the Arizona law does not require an arrest, it requires that if an officer has reasonable susipicion that the suspect is here illegally, he must inquire as to the suspects immigration status. Only upon acquiring probable cause may an arrest occur.

When I see such shoddy assertions, I must question the validity of all of his arguments.

Richard Payton 4 years, 8 months ago

The law that recently passed in Arizona doesn't go into law till June or July. Verigo the azfamily.com link you provide is present law that ICE follows.

gccs14r 4 years, 8 months ago

The same folks who are cheering this law in AZ think Obama doesn't have a valid birth certificate. What constitutes proof of citizenship to a willful idiot? Carrying around a birth certificate won't be good enough for some people. "Oh, those can be faked." Whatever. How about we give AZ back to Mexico? That'll fix the problem.

whats_going_on 4 years, 8 months ago

we'll even throw Texas in the trade for good measure.

2002 4 years, 8 months ago

If the majority of illegal immigrants were ultra-conservative, Asians most of the anarchists posting here in support of giving illegal immigrants would be in opposition. You are a whacky bunch, you want to talk about equal rights, but your position actually gives these illegals (and the criminals that knowingly hire them) more rights than an actual citizen.

This is not a race issue! There a millions of legal immigrants from the same countries that have chosen to follow the rules. I've lived where illegal immigration is rampant and it is a crime issue and it is a burden on government services. Actually, since many illegal immigrants are mistreated financially it's quite similar to slavery.

Richard Payton 4 years, 8 months ago

Obama hasn't even yet provided a certified birth certificate something you would think could easily be obtained. Obama better stay out of Arizona because might end up in jail until ICE confirms his birth certificate.

whats_going_on 4 years, 8 months ago

rrrrrrrrrrreally hope you're trying to be funny.

If not, google.

bruno2 4 years, 8 months ago

So, you're apparently an idiot. Go to factcheck, a non-partisan group, learn that the birth certificate has indeed been available for review, see a picture of it, here eye witness accounts, and then shut up.

Brent Garner 4 years, 8 months ago

All this talk about identity papers. Have any of you whinning lefties even read the law? It contains a lengthy list of documents which will be considered proof of legitimacy. Basically any governmental ID will do. And before you all start whinning about papers again, I'll bet each of you has some kind of gov't ID on you or within easy reach right now! When you get stopped by the police for anything isn't one of the very first things they ask for is ID? So, if these "brown skinned" people you are whinning about get stopped let them hand over their gov't issued ID when asked for it by the police and they will be quickly on their way. The only ones who need to worry are those who cannot produce the ID. And they should worry!

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

I checked that out, vertigo, but it says in the article it had nothing to do with the new law. Might be some kinda trucking thing, something concerning NAFTA? I don't know. But it seems to me that a driver's license should be good enough. No one should carry their social security card for fear of identity theft.

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

You don't. But that's not what's going on. It's not the police' job to decide who's unauthorized. They'll simply query when applicable. I've worked in nearly every subdivision that's been built in the last 5 years in Atlanta. When I walk into a house and there's three different crews in and around there (framers, painters, drywall, etc.) and I ask a question..... and everyone looks at me nervously 'cuz they don't speak any conversational english.... seems reasonably suspicious, don'tcha think? Isn't that just the kind of thing police operate with all the time?

beatrice 4 years, 8 months ago

Brent, exactly what papers do you presently need to have on you if you want to walk outside of your home?

As far as being stopped "for anything," when was the last time you were stopped for not looking like you are a citizen?

Racial profiling is racist. Sorry you can't see this for what it is.

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

What papers does one need for walking outside their home? None, not even in Arizona. The police won't be staking out front lawns, bea.
When was the last time anyone was stopped for not looking like a citizen? Ummm, never. And the police in Arizona can't pull someone over merely because they look hispanic, either. But nice utilization of 'scare tactics.' Freakin' hypocrite.

"Racial profiling is racist."

And yet another person who doesn't know what the definition of 'racist' is. Racial profiling is not racist. Only people can be racist, bea. Sorry you can't see that for what it is.

bruno2 4 years, 8 months ago

So, you apparently missed the story of the Latino truck driver who was just arrested, even though he had his commercial license, etc. His wife had to leave work, go home and get his birth certificate, and present it to the authorities before he was released, after missing a day's work, etc. Do you carry your birth certificate with you? Would you if you were a Hispanic in Arizona? Wouldn't you be afraid of losing it?

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

No, I saw the story. Vertigo has posted it numerous times. But apparently you missed the part of that story that explained that particular incident had nothing to do with this new law. Don't know what the deal was with that incident, but I'm guessin' it had something to do w/ trucking laws or NAFTA or something else. They didn't give enough background in the story.

gccs14r 4 years, 8 months ago

Depending on circumstances, I don't always carry ID. If I get mugged, I don't want the mugger to have it, so if I'm out walking around and won't need ID for anything, I leave it at home. For that matter, I leave my whole wallet at home if I'm not going to buy anything when I'm out and I'm not driving anything that requires a license.

bruno2 4 years, 8 months ago

Hey Shoe, why not post all your personal information in this space? C'mon, full disclosure. Bet it would be an eyeful. Just because somebody is elected it doesn't mean we have a license to demand their life be laid bare. Many good people refuse to run for office because of the trend to expose all aspects of a person's life by the news media, and to make outrageous claims of what is lurking in the files of those who refuse. So Shoe, what do you say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, or do you have big skeletons in your closet? Hey, maybe you're not an American citizen?

Jay Keffer 4 years, 8 months ago

Posted elsewhere, but worth repeating:

This is an example of what Arizona is facing. The governer sent no less than 5 letters to the White House begging, pleading for help and personally spoke to P-BO about the issue. She was snubbed. Read on:

"Late on the night of June 22, a residence in Phoenix was approached by a heavily armed tactical team preparing to serve a warrant. The members of the team were wearing the typical gear for members of their profession: black boots, black BDU pants, Kevlar helmets and Phoenix Police Department (PPD) raid shirts pulled over their body armor. The team members carried AR-15 rifles equipped with Aimpoint sights to help them during the low-light operation and, like most cops on a tactical team, in addition to their long guns, the members of this team carried secondary weapons — pistols strapped to their thighs.

But the raid took a strange turn when one element of the team began directing suppressive fire on the residence windows while the second element entered — a tactic not normally employed by the PPD. This breach of departmental protocol did not stem from a mistake on the part of the team’s commander. It occurred because the eight men on the assault team were not from the PPD at all. These men were not cops serving a legal search or arrest warrant signed by a judge; they were cartel hit men serving a death warrant signed by a Mexican drug lord.

The tactical team struck hard and fast. They quickly killed a man in the house and then fled the scene in two vehicles, a red Chevy Tahoe and a gray Honda sedan. Their aggressive tactics did have consequences, however. The fury the attackers unleashed on the home — firing over 100 rounds during the operation — drew the attention of a nearby Special Assignments Unit (SAU) team, the PPD’s real tactical team, which responded to the scene with other officers. An SAU officer noticed the Tahoe fleeing the scene and followed it until it entered an alley. Sensing a potential ambush, the SAU officer chose to establish a perimeter and wait for reinforcements rather than charge down the alley after the suspects. This was fortunate, because after three of the suspects from the Tahoe were arrested, they confessed that they had indeed planned to ambush the police officers chasing them.

The assailants who fled in the Honda have not yet been found, but police did recover the vehicle in a church parking lot. They reportedly found four sets of body armor in the vehicle and also recovered an assault rifle abandoned in a field adjacent to the church.

This Phoenix home invasion and murder is a vivid reminder of the threat to U.S. law enforcement officers that stems from the cartel wars in Mexico."

cont'

Jay Keffer 4 years, 8 months ago

cont'

Violence Crosses the Border The fact that the Mexican men involved in the Phoenix case were heavily armed and dressed as police comes as no surprise to anyone who has followed security events in Mexico. Teams of cartel enforcers frequently impersonate police or military personnel, often wearing matching tactical gear and carrying standardized weapons. In fact, it is rare to see a shootout or cartel-related arms seizure in Mexico where tactical gear and clothing bearing police or military insignia is not found."

Only one of many examples of the cartels and the mess they are causing for Arizona.

But we might hurt someone's feelings if we enforce the laws!!! Ya bed wetting pillow biters.....

kernal 4 years, 8 months ago

p>www.azcentral.com. Do word search for illegal immigrants.

Jay Keffer 4 years, 8 months ago

One more for ya:

"In what officials caution is now a dangerous and even deadly crime wave, Phoenix, Arizona has become the kidnapping capital of America, with more incidents than any other city in the world outside of Mexico City and over 370 cases last year alone. But local authorities say Washington, DC is too obsessed with al Qaeda terrorists to care about what is happening in their own backyard right now.

"We're in the eye of the storm," Phoenix Police Chief Andy Anderson told ABC News of the violent crimes and ruthless tactics spurred by Mexico's drug cartels that have expanded business across the border. "If it doesn't stop here, if we're not able to fix it here and get it turned around, it will go across the nation," he said.

California Attorney General Jerry Brown warned that as the U.S. government focuses so intently on Islamic extremist groups, other types of terrorists – those involved with the same kidnappings, extortion and drug cartels that are sweeping Phoenix – are overlooked."

But we might offend someone or inconvenience them.......ya stinkin' pillow biters!!!

beatrice 4 years, 8 months ago

Same posts, both stories -- wow, you really know how to carry Glenn Beck's water. Do you check with FoxNews before you wipe?

Kyle Reed 4 years, 8 months ago

Translation..."I really don't know what to say about the problem detailed in that report. It makes me look bad that I'm uninformed or simply too stupid to comprehend the problem was that bad so I'll simply make fun of your source."

Jay Keffer 4 years, 8 months ago

What Akreed said - dead on.

Don't watch Fix, not the source of this info anyway - check any lefty paper in the area and you willl find it.

Still can't formulate a real argument, but you are entertaining - and predictable, but that part is boring.

Yoda51 4 years, 8 months ago

"Prejudice against Irish Catholics in the US reached a peak in the mid-1850s with the Know Nothing Movement, which tried to oust Catholics from public office. The image was widespread of Irish drinking, fighting, ignoring their children, gambling, and crowding poorhouses. After 1860—and well into the 20th century—the Irish believed that Protestants refused to hire them, and claimed that "HELP WANTED - NO IRISH NEED APPLY" was in operation. They called these "the NINA signs." NINA signs were common in London in the early 1800s, and the memory of this discrimination in Britain was imported to the US. After 1860 the Irish sang songs about NINA signs, and these songs have had a deep impact on the Irish sense of discrimination. Many Irish work gangs were hired by contractors to build canals, railroads, city streets and sewers across the country. In the South they underbid slave labor." ~ Library of Congress

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Seems every wave of immigrants is met with the same anger and attempted repression. Today's descendants of European immigrants no longer remember what was said, thought & done to their ancestors. The Irish were hated, denied rights and described as simian. Angry at the discrimination, Irish Catholic immigrants joined together to take over local & state politics. Get ready Arizona!

In 1928 the KKK burned a cross in my grandfather's front yard in rural KCKS because he was a Catholic. My 8 year-old father watched, terrified. He taught us to never forget that once my family were strangers in a strange land, too. Kurt Kobach is a good little Nazi, isn't he?

tbaker 4 years, 8 months ago

So why do opponents of this law make this a discussion about race?

Because arguing this as a point of law is a loser. Consider the fact the "new" Arizona law prohibits actions that, under federal law, are already illegal. A state law that makes obeying a federal law - the law. Go figure. Why would a reasonable person object to the law being enforced? We are a nation of laws, right? If we don’t like them, we elect new politicians to change them. Isn’t that how this is supposed to work?

Does it matter that the new Arizona law will actually help also enforce Mexican immigration laws - which are also being broken by illegal immigration into the US, or should we just talk about race?

Kyle Reed 4 years, 8 months ago

Wrong. It's to rid the area of illegal aliens regardless of where they originated.

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

They say 'eh' too often and change words like "out" to "oat."

Brent Garner 4 years, 8 months ago

For all the lefty whinners:

I will ask an attorney friend of mine what Kansas law states regarding the charge of vagrancy. In some states, not having an official ID on you can result in the charge of vagrancy. It is usually a misdemeanor offense and most often used to simply control groups of unruly individuals. Here in Kansas, it seems, the same affect is achieved via the charge of disorderly conduct.

Further, for all you lefty whinners, the police can stop you at anytime they suspect you might be involved in something. They may not be able to arrest you, but they can stop you and ask you to ID yourself. The Supreme Court says so. Advice to you lefty whinners, carry some kind of ID.

As to "looking like an illegal", that is not what the Arizona law states. Obviously you have not read the law and are taking your cues from morons on the left who see every action as racial. Would that make them and you racists? The Arizona law uses the term "reasonably suspect" when it comes to illegal immigrants. That language does not authorize an officer to simply walk up to anyone on the street and demand some proof of being in the country legally. The officer has to have reasonble suspicion. With so many US citizens being of Hispanic ancestry if an officer used skin color alone as reasonable suspicion he would be in violation of the very law he would be trying to enforce. He would have to have some other suspicion in order to proceed.

In any case, if you are here illegally go home. If you are here legally, welcome!

Kyle Reed 4 years, 8 months ago

Seems to me that you are very interested in investigative techniques used by law enforcement. Maybe you should think about becoming a police officer in Arizona so you can speak knowledgably instead of speaking out of your a**.

Just because you can't figure out how they could do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

Kyle Reed 4 years, 8 months ago

I don't need to be able to answer it. I'm not a police officer in Arizona.

whats_going_on 4 years, 8 months ago

who wants to carry around their birth certificate?

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

No, you don't have to "carry all these documents around." One will do. You have to everywhere else in the world you travel. Small price to pay to get free-loaders out. And enough with the Nazi allusions. It's childish and ignorant. When we start rounding up people in order to cleanse the world of a certain race by murdering them, THEN you have an apt allusion. Until then, like I said, we check people's ID just like every other developed nation does. Oh! The Horror!

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

It had nothing to do with due process as far as I can find. The case was argued as violations of the 4th and 5th Amendments, nothing regarding the 14th was raised. The Nevada SC held for the statute, that a person must identify themselves when queried by police, and said nothing about having to provide ID. And please provide a link to the SCOTUS decision because all I can find is two cases where they've withheld ruling.
Whatever their finding, if any exists, the police are to act as if whatever the questioned individual says is true without proper ID to back it up? I don't think so.

whats_going_on 4 years, 8 months ago

"As to "looking like an illegal", that is not what the Arizona law states. Obviously you have not read the law and are taking your cues from morons on the left who see every action as racial. Would that make them and you racists? The Arizona law uses the term "reasonably suspect" when it comes to illegal immigrants. That language does not authorize an officer to simply walk up to anyone on the street and demand some proof of being in the country legally. The officer has to have reasonble suspicion. With so many US citizens being of Hispanic ancestry if an officer used skin color alone as reasonable suspicion he would be in violation of the very law he would be trying to enforce. He would have to have some other suspicion in order to proceed."

THIS is what I'm confused about...how far does that term reach? It doesn't make a lot of sense that people would be stopped for no reason, but I don't know Arizona or the problem that well, so I don't know. Seems far stretched. I'd like to know exactly what the lawmakers mean when they say "reasonable doubt."

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

vertigo says: "Oh... so we only go after the non english speaking illegal aliens. The white english speaking illegal aliens are cool to stay. Got it."

Of course that's not what I said, but since you brought it up do you know about some massive invasion of "white english speaking illegal aliens" the rest of us are unaware of? At the most modest estimates we have at least 20 million illegals from south of the border. I'd be willing to bet all other illegals combined don't add up to a million.
Sounds like your take would be akin to a doctor who's found a massive tumor in a person's brain sayin' he refuses to do anything about that dire situation because the dime-sized cyst on the same person's ass can't be removed with the same technique. Briiiiilliant logic, that!

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

Riight. 'Cuz everyone here, including yourself, and everyone in government has said we should and will ignore everyone else other than hispanics. Great analogy.

whats_going_on 4 years, 8 months ago

Ironically enough I know of a girl from France who lives here illegally. She married her husband (an American) so that she wouldn't be deported.

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

"Assumptions about the nonimmigrant population estimate. The estimates are based on admission dates and length of visit by class of admission and not actual population counts. Length of visit, which is calcu lated by matching arrival and departure records, is subject to more error than admissions data."

From your first link, vertigo. Feel free to buy into your 10 -12 million total "estimate", but it's a crock, particularly when Arizona guesses it has half a million illegal hispanics alone, and also when your cited study only goes by the "dates and length of visit." Are the border jumpers down south signing a guest book when they sneak over in the middle of the night?

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

Ooooo! Between 3 and 4 million, so so sorry. And of those, how much you wanna bet nearly all are registered with INS whereas our southern neighbors don't bother with that formality whatsoever?
By the way, there's an Asia.........but then there's a South and East Asia as well?? Who the freak qualifies as being from Asia then? Russia? But they're part of Europe as well. Hmm, me smells a crock of ...........

ivalueamerica 4 years, 8 months ago

A controversial new immigration law in Arizona might impact the vote in the mid-term elections later this year. For one, it could energize Hispanics and bring them out in large numbers to vote.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 8 months ago

Since ACORN fell off the tree, it might be hard for another record number of imaginary-Americans to vote this November.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 8 months ago

Suppose you are cruising across the ocean on your ship. The chief engineer runs in to tell you there are two holes in the hull. One on the port side is letting 50 gallons of water a minute into the ship. The hole on the starboard side is leaking at the rate of a pint every three days. You have 4 crewmen who can fix holes. Do you send two to the port leak and two to the starboard leak to avoid looking prejudiced toward the port leak? Or do you send all four to the site of the most pressing problem and plan to fix the starboard leak as soon as possible? When the leaks are stopped, do you leave the hundreds of gallons of water you took onboard in your bilge or do you pump it all out? Discuss.....

RobertMarble 4 years, 8 months ago

The law is certainly not xenophobic; it's a a good piece if legislation. Calling it otherwise is ridiculous.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 8 months ago

I would think it better to call you ridiculous for spitting on the Constitution and defying the 4th and 14th amendments.

In fact, betraying America in that way makes you a traitor.

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

Sweet cheese and rice. Find a new shtick, value. Continually spouting the same drivel only makes you a traitor to intelligence.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 8 months ago

I will not get tired of defending the Constitution. Sorry you find that document troublesome to your plans for the USA. Too many have faught and died for it to let someone like you trash it so easily.

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

Please show where I've "trashed the Constitution". Please show where you've "defended the Constitution" other than by stating like a 5 year old, "Doh, I defend the Constitution." Lastly, nobody, and I do mean nobody, has "faught" anything, ever.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 8 months ago

Some of us have to work from time to time, no set around.

Please read the 4th and 14th amendments, then the Constitutional Scholars opinions of this law.

You spit on the Constitution more than Al Quada, traitor.

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

I certainly hope you're no more than teen-aged, value, 'cuz then there might come a time in the distant future when you might actually be able to construct and maintain an actual argument. Casting aspersions like you do with no support and no ability to make one solid point whatsoever speaks to you being mid-teens, at best. Grow up. And I "no set" around either, kiddo, nor have I "faught" no nuns neider. Sheesh.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 7 months ago

the argument is simple, you and I agree that illegal immigration needs to be stopped and no administration in the last 50 years has taken it seriously. But beyond that, you do not care if you use the Constitution as nothing more than toilet paper, and I think we have to value that document enough to figure out how to fix the problem without disrespecting the Constitution.

You hate that. You find it very inconvenient so you try to ignore it and I will not let you. So you react. It is still a very simple matter, if you do not respect the Constitution, you are not an honorable American.

password 4 years, 8 months ago

Snap - Is this one of those trick questions? a pint every three days is not alot. but then again you didn't give the size and weight of the ship or which ocean or how far from land they are or how long until the hole was discovered....
i would say: Head to shore or go for the life boats if worse comes to worse.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 8 months ago

The ship is a 129 foot tug built by MARCO shipyard in Seattle. It's a Voight Water Tractor. Don't have the displacement right at hand. The hull was holed 5 minutes before you, the captain, are told what's happened. You are 75 miles offshore with a 9 foot following sea. The starboard hole represents the problem of Swedes sneaking across our Northern border. The port hole represents another group.

lawrenceRezident 4 years, 8 months ago

Drugs are horrible within this country, and, most of them seem to come from Mexico. How is that profiling? Seriously, why don't you consider the welfare of you own family.... Or, Is it that you are so damn smug that you think you are above it?

lawrenceRezident 4 years, 8 months ago

Drugs are horrible within this country, and, most of them seem to come from Mexico. How is that profiling? Seriously, why don't you consider the welfare of you own family.... Or, Is it that you are so damn smug that you think you are above it?

lawrenceRezident 4 years, 8 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

lawrenceRezident 4 years, 8 months ago

NOTE: LJWORLD.COM

YOUR JOURNALISM IS HORRIBLY UNPROFESSIONAL... 8th Grade level.... Seriously? It's no wonder you work in Lawrence and not for a major player in the journalism community....

lawrenceRezident 4 years, 8 months ago

LJWORLD.COM is nothing more that sensationalism... Not reporting...

Flap Doodle 4 years, 8 months ago

And yet you keep coming back for more......

whats_going_on 4 years, 8 months ago

so what are your other screen names on here. Do tell :)

independant1 4 years, 8 months ago

send all 4 to the 50 gallon leak when the leak is fixed, person the bilge pump but the liberals wouldn't care about the bilge water, the ship was sitting too high in the water anyway

Flap Doodle 4 years, 8 months ago

In other news: "MEXICO CITY — As many as six out of every 10 Central American women and girls are raped as they pass through Mexico hoping to cross illegally into the United States, Amnesty International said Wednesday. The rapists include criminal gang members as well as local authorities in collusion with them, said Rupert Knox, an Amnesty International researcher on Mexico...." http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/6980699.html

Flap Doodle 4 years, 8 months ago

Since the law hasn't gone into effect yet, isn't it a bit premature to declare it ineffective? BTW, it looks like Dear Leader is going to sic "Let 'em go" Holder on Arizona for stepping on the fed's toes. Of course, if the feds were enforcing the immigration laws, the Arizona legislature wouldn't have had to pass this law.

TopJayhawk 4 years, 8 months ago

Xenophobic? Get real. I think most of us are very accepting of forieners who come here legally. They show respect for this country and it's people by following our laws.
JUst the opposite for illegals.. They want to take back our country as was evident in their really stupid demonstration on Cinco De Mayo several yrs ago. Remember the hundreds of signs reading "reconquista?" Or how about the many signs reading "We were here first so who's really illegal pilgrim?" This says it all. Folks who throw around the "X" word are either intellectually lazy, or intellectually dishonest...Or........they are just stupid.

independant1 4 years, 8 months ago

You are correct, the immigrants here are like Roman Catholic converts, they are the most zealous. And very conservative in their politics in our political spectrum.

Hmmm velly intellesting

TopJayhawk 4 years, 8 months ago

Ivalueamerica You are really dumb. YOu talk about upholding the Constitutuon, while trying to convince us it's okay to circumvent it.
Intellecturally stupid and lazy.

TopJayhawk 4 years, 8 months ago

Any way we can deport Obama? No, I guess not....His ears are just too big.

beatrice 4 years, 7 months ago

His ears are too big? What, are you seven? You write this on the heals of calling someone else "intellecturally" stupid and lazy. What a genius.

TopJayhawk 4 years, 8 months ago

Cowboy Who inhabited Mexico before the Mexicans? Who are really of Spanish decent. Answer? The Mayans and the Aztecs. Are they going to get Mexico back from the Mexicans? another stupid strawman argument from an intellectually lazy person. Time to go ride your horse, and be quiet.

independant1 4 years, 8 months ago

It's PC to ask an anglo for ID on suspicion but not if they look and speak different. That way only the fair skinned illegals will be rounded up.

arkeys and okies speak different, are they included in the protected class of those who must not be carded?

Let me play the gratuitous "R" card. La Raza!

Commenting has been disabled for this item.