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Archive for Sunday, April 4, 2010

Right-wingers rewrite U.S. history

April 4, 2010

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— The right is rewriting history.

The most ballyhooed effort is under way in Texas, where conservatives have pushed the state school board to rewrite guidelines, downplaying Thomas Jefferson in one high school course, playing up such conservatives as Phyllis Schlafly and the Heritage Foundation and challenging the idea that the Founding Fathers wanted to separate church and state.

The effort reaches far beyond one state, however.

In articles and speeches, on radio and TV, conservatives are working to redefine major turning points and influential figures in American history, often to slam liberals, promote Republicans and reinforce their positions in today’s politics.

The Jamestown settlers? Socialists. Founding Father Alexander Hamilton? Ill-informed professors made up all that bunk about him advocating a strong central government.

Theodore Roosevelt? Another socialist. Franklin D. Roosevelt? Not only did he not end the Great Depression, he also created it.

Joe McCarthy? Liberals lied about him. He was a hero.

While even some conservatives say that some of the revisionist history is simply wrong, at the core, the effort reflects the ever-changing view of history, which is always subject to revision thanks to new information or new ways of looking at things, and often is viewed through a political lens.

“Part of the tide of history is that it’s contested terrain,” said Fritz Fischer, a historian at the University of Northern Colorado and the chairman of the National Council for History Education. “We should always be arguing and questioning what happened in the past.”

It’s not just historians who contest history, however. It’s also politicians and pundits.

“There’s clearly a political impetus behind this that connects to the issues of today,” Fischer said, such as labeling President Barack Obama a socialist. “But when history is ignored to do it, that can be dangerous.”

Here are recent examples of new conservative versions of history:

Jamestown

Reaching for an example of how bad socialism can be, former House of Representatives Majority Leader Dick Armey, R-Texas, said recently that the people who settled Jamestown, Va., in 1607 were socialists and that their ideology doomed them.

“Jamestown colony, when it was first founded as a socialist venture, dang near failed with everybody dead and dying in the snow,” he said in a speech March 15 at the National Press Club.

It was a good, strong story, but it wasn’t true.

The Jamestown settlement was a capitalist venture financed by the Virginia Company of London — a joint stock corporation — to make a profit. The colony nearly foundered owing to a harsh winter, brackish water and lack of food, but reinforcements enabled it to survive. It was never socialistic.

Theodore Roosevelt

Theodore Roosevelt was long an icon of the Republican Party, a dynamic leader who ushered in the Progressive era, busting trusts, regulating robber barons, building the Panama Canal and sending the U.S. fleet around the world announcing ascendant American power.

Fox TV commentator Glenn Beck, however, says that Roosevelt was a socialist whose legacy is destroying America.

It started, Beck said, with Roosevelt’s admonition to the wealthy of his day to spend their riches for the good of society.

“Is this what the Republican Party stands for? Well, you should ask members of the Republican Party, because this is not our founders’ idea of America. And this is the cancer that’s eating at America. It is big government; it’s a socialist utopia,” Beck said.

There’s no doubt that Roosevelt was a domestic policy liberal by today’s standards. In a 1910 speech in Kansas, he acknowledged that his “New Nationalism” meant “far more active governmental interference with social and economic conditions in this country than we have yet had.”

The 26th president insisted, however, that he wanted the government to guarantee opportunity, not a handout.

In his autobiography, he dismissed socialism as taught by Karl Marx as “an exploded theory ... shown to possess not one shred of value.”

Joe McCarthy

Sen. Joseph McCarthy, R-Wis., burst onto the national stage in the early 1950s with accusations that he had a list of names of known Communists in the federal government. He didn’t name them, was censured by the Senate eventually and his name became synonymous with witch hunts — McCarthyism.

Now, the end of the Cold War has opened up spy files and identified many Communist spies who operated inside the government during the era. Some conservatives argue that this proves not only that McCarthy was right, but also that he was a hero and that he was smeared by liberals, the news media and historians.

“Almost everything about McCarthy in current history books is a lie and will have to be revised,” conservative activist Phyllis Schlafly said.

Yet even some prominent conservatives say that McCarthy’s defenders go too far.

“The cause of anti-Communism, which united millions of Americans and which gained the support of Democrats, Republicans and independents, was undermined by Sen. Joe McCarthy of Wisconsin,” wrote William Bennett, who was the conservative secretary of education under President Ronald Reagan.

Comments

jayhawklawrence 4 years, 8 months ago

This is also one of my pet peeves.

Whenever someone starts an argument off by rewriting history the red lights should start flashing in your head. This seems to be a standard tool of deception whether it is an extreme political view or a cult looking for disciples.

The best thing to do is simply learn to appreciate history and study it well so that you won't be fooled by the next "Pied Piper" who happens along.

We need to remember the lessons that allowed people to prosper, achieve their dreams and shape our ideals.

Mixolydian 4 years, 8 months ago

Given the headline and the opening paragraph I was led to believe this was going to be about the Texas school cirriculum debate. Nope. The thrust of the story was supported by quotes from private citizens and then concluded that this is the attempt to rewrite history by "right-wingers" who are never identified.

Lame artice.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 8 months ago

Dear Leader needs the assistance of his loyal minions to demonize the unbelievers.

tomatogrower 4 years, 8 months ago

So giving to charity is socialist? Teddy Roosevelt is socialist? Monopolies and trusts are a good thing? Child labor is a good thing? Life before his reforms was a good thing? Now I really know where you conservatives stand, I will make sure to spread the word to those who think they might be conservative. More people will see you for the radicals you are.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 8 months ago

Dear Leader's current abuse of tobacco and alcohol are well documented. He's admitted to doing nose candy in the past. Poor lad needs a pick-me-up to get through the long days of reading from the teleprompter.

keith manies 4 years, 8 months ago

These right wing fanatics are also rewritting the Bible to fit their extremist views. If reality and history don't fit and support your discredited theories, just make it up as you go along. This is coming from the state of Texas, the place where insane and mentally handicapped people are routinely put to death and the state that brought us the intellectually and morally challenged President, George W Bush. Remember him? He was the one who lead this country to near economic disaster and started the bail outs for his rich corporate friends. Ask a teabagger near you and they will look at you with a bewildered stare and deny it and blame it on President Obama! I'd rather be called a socialist than live in a permanent state of ignorance and fantasy.

camper 4 years, 8 months ago

I can imagine the cries of Socialism when the FDA was created back in those days. Both Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt supported consumer protection and cracked down on unethical suppliers who were distributing harmful products.

BorderRuffian 4 years, 8 months ago

How would this be any different than the bleeding-heart, left-wing, Demolibs rewriting history books to remove references to Christopher Columbus and George Washington, and other founding fathers whose politics weren't "left" enough to suit them?

tomatogrower 4 years, 8 months ago

keitherman, you're right. They are even rewriting recent history that should be a part of people's memories. Some people really believe that the recession started while Obama was president. It just amazes me the ignorance. And have you seen the rewrite of the Bible? Aren't Christians upset about that? What arrogance!

And the fact that conservatives are calling the health insurance requirement an idea of Obama's when they came up with the idea, and supported it just a few years ago. Yoga lessons are for twisting the body, but the conservatives are getting good at using it for other things. Too bad, it's going to blow up in their faces.

Liberty275 4 years, 8 months ago

"So giving to charity is socialist?"

No, it's the opposite. Charity is capitalist because it gives the donor party a choice in the transaction. Taking by force from one group and giving to another is the key tenant of Marxism, which borrows the idea from socialism.

"Teddy Roosevelt is socialist?"

Not of any consequence.

"Monopolies and trusts are a good thing?"

Some good, some bad. The windows virtual monopoly is often cited as an example of a computer API that allowed software developers to write and compile sophisticated programs once and know the programs will run on almost all Windows computers. In that way, a monopoly is good because it enables others to employ a known interface for their own purposes. Compare that to the anti-monopolist collection of operating systems known colloquially as "Linux". A developer can't write and compile anything once but the most basic programs and have the same assurance because of the anarchist nature of the myriad distributions of Linux. Nevermind BSD and it's offspring which are even more blatantly anarchist.

Trusts are neutral. They can be well attended or robbed blind. In many cases they are required. The president's finances are in a trust as are those of many people with learning disabilities. This is a case where you should "hate the player, not the game".

"Child labor is a good thing?"

Never at the expense of an education. If you disagree, try to remember that next time you watch a TV show or movie with kids in it. Child labor made Hilary Duff a rich woman.

"More people will see you for the radicals you are."

Are you going to buy them glasses?

Liberty275 4 years, 8 months ago

"And the fact that conservatives are calling the health insurance requirement an idea of Obama's when they came up with the idea, and supported it just a few years ago."

Do you support "right wing" ideas, or do you save that support for times when the same ideas are presented by the left wing? There is a word for that.

And really, do you really think its a good idea for the government to force you to purchase a product from a corporation solely because you are an American? Are you that anxious for the government to force you to feed your dollars into corporate coffers? How will you feel when the government mandates that you must buy a copy of Ann Coulter's new book for the good of the society or pay an additional tax?

camper 4 years, 8 months ago

Liberty275 some of the things you describe make good sense.

There is one low common denominator most of us can understand. And that is our distrust (and in some cases hatred) of the other side, be it left or right. But this is an over simplification of the bigger picture, and it is the lazy minded that can only zero in on their narrow minded black and white one size fits all worldview. Right now, sorry to say, I see a lot of it coming from the right, and it disgusts me.

I would like to see a debate about some of the things 275 is saying up above. Something like centralization vs de-centralization, Macroeconomics vs.Microeconomics. This is more interesting too me, and less prone to partisanship and ugly politics.

camper 4 years, 8 months ago

Health care. Better suited and more efficient under a more centralized system. Macro. Reform needed.

Cait McKnelly 4 years, 8 months ago

Tom, what are you going to do if Obama is re-elected? Have a stroke? Shoot yourself? Nothing in this world is ever guaranteed and you seriously worry me. So much of your self identity is tied up in this. Do me a favor; step away from the computer. It's a beautiful spring day; Easter Day in fact. Go take a walk in the woods with your dogs and smell the freshness. It's too late to go to the Farmer's Market but go to Earl May or Walmart Garden center and by some flowers to plant for your wife. Go outside with a NONPOLITICAL book and read in the sunshine. Heck, if you drink, have a glass of wine while you do. Watch a movie or DVD on TV with the wife; something that will make you laugh or a chick flick that will make you smile at each other in remembered romance. Having political beliefs and convictions is a good thing. Our country was built on healthy political dissent and discourse. But when anything, including politics, begins to dominate our lives to the exclusion of everything else we set ourselves up for a world of hurt. Please don't think I am being condescending, sarcastic or demeaning. I'm not and that's not my intent. Right now I don't care what your politics are or what mine are or the differences between them. Politics aside, I am simply reaching out to a fellow human being that concerns me.

SettingTheRecordStraight 4 years, 8 months ago

Sounds a lot like "A People's History of the United States" and "Tear Down This Myth."

Liberals have obviously done the same.

jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

Mixolodian wrote exactly what I was thinking.

scott3460 4 years, 8 months ago

"Tom, what are you going to do if Obama is re-elected? Have a stroke? Shoot yourself? "

Worry not, he'll continue on as if nothing happened. At least he will if his predictions of a McCain victory and defeat for health care reform are any example. The guy is well on his way toward proving a unified field theorem of TomShewmon being wrong in every post, so Obama's reelection is virtually guaranteed.

beatrice 4 years, 8 months ago

Tom, you also predicted that Americans weren't ready to vote for a black man for President, and that the health care bill would never pass. Remember? Do you remember how horribly wrong you were in your previous political predictions? I mean, you are like the anti-Nostradamus, so thanks for the November prediction.

With the Palinites and the teabaggers taking over the Republican party, they don't stand a chance. Americans will remember to vote against the party of "No!" come No-vember.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 8 months ago

Relax and have a popsicle, paulette. It's a cool and fruity treat on a Spring day. When you are enjoying that, you can read: http://wizbangblog.com/content/2010/04/04/the-tea-parties-get-scary.php

TheYetiSpeaks 4 years, 8 months ago

LOL! Kids have been denied REAL history for quite some time. Whether it be a warm, fuzzy look at traditional figures (Christopher Columbus anyone?), or one whole page devoted to the Vietnam War, kids have never got the whole truth. Yet, no one complains until it has a partisan spin on it....Typical. Wake up, America. There's bigger things going on here than Republicans and Democrats.

TheYetiSpeaks 4 years, 8 months ago

"Obama is the best President to lead us toward a new era of good governance..."

Just out of curiosity, how does one reconcile out of control spending expanding our out of control debt with good governance? Our politicians are all the same and they must change.

independant1 4 years, 8 months ago

This would be a great time in the world for some man to come along that knew something. (Will Rogers)

tomatogrower 4 years, 8 months ago

Do you support "right wing" ideas, or do you save that support for times when the same ideas are presented by the left wing? There is a word for that.

And really, do you really think its a good idea for the government to force you to purchase a product from a corporation solely because you are an American? Are you that anxious for the government to force you to feed your dollars into corporate coffers? How will you feel when the government mandates that you must buy a copy of Ann Coulter's new book for the good of the society or pay an additional tax?

I'm not stupid enough to not have insurance. I wasn't forced to by books by morons after the state required I that I had car insurance, so why is that going to happen now? Of course, I was never stupid enough not to have car insurance either.

independant1 4 years, 8 months ago

History ain’t what it is. It’s what some writer wanted it to be. (Will Rogers)

jayhawklawrence 4 years, 8 months ago

Paulette:

"Americans are among the most media saturated but worst informed people in the world and why we have been so confused and apathetic about impending climate destabilization."

I would have to agree with most of your comments. Maybe all of them, however, there is the tone of impending doom which I find a little overly dramatic.

I think our politicians act very irresponsible in the way they govern. We went into Iraq amid speeches describing nuclear bombs exploding in our major cities and the aftermath looks like a grab for oil and a misguided venture by Republican idiots masquerading as foreign policy gurus. Cheer leaders like Limbaugh, Beck, Cal Powers, Krauthammer and George Will were clamoring for an invasion, but it was just foolhardiness. There were no apologies from this crowd.

Might not the same tactics be at work among Democratic liberal extremists who spent too much time reading the wrong books in college find us launching into another expensive and foolhardy campaign to "save mankind".

I am sick to death of the drama and foolishness we see in politics today.

The real issues are related to very poor management in government, a very poor decision making process and a lack of character in politics. No one stands out from the crowd. They are all playing the same foolish political games.

The US government gets involved in everybody's business internationally but we can't even take care of problems in our own cities and manage our own economy because of the ongoing shenanigans among political elitists in this country.

Ask a small or medium sized manufacturer that got their business destroyed by unfair trade practices if the US government did anything to help them when they asked for protection over the past 25 years.

The answer is almost always no. The only people in this country who get any assistance from the Federal Government are huge corporations because they can buy the politicians they need. No wonder that Wall Street gets the bail out money and main street gets the shaft.

Now the Democrats are talking "cap and trade" and creating a system that further burdens US companies and creates a money generator for favored environmental groups and gives developing countries like China and India a further competitive advantage over US manufacturers.

Better management of the environment is important but it is starting to look like another way to fleece the American people by politicians who don't know what they are doing.

These mistakes by stupid politicians are just too damn expensive.

jayhawklawrence 4 years, 8 months ago

I liked Liberty275's comment about computers and I don't think he should have been slammed even though he was wrong about Linux and I did not agree with the point he was making.

I find the development of the PC and the software industry around it to be a very interesting reflection on what is happening in society and the world.

There is definitely a relationship between our societal attitudes and the way the software industry has developed.

I find it interesting, for example, how the search engine business dominated by Google has driven out a lot of the internet freedoms we once enjoyed and the same can be said for the dominance of Microsoft. In the beginning it seemed like a good thing, but then I believe there is always a high cost to pay when you allow monopolies to proliferate.

There is a lot of resentment against Microsoft and how they destroyed a lot of promising technologies.

You used to be able to put up a website and get noticed. Now you have to pay Google a lot of money to do the same thing.

How about a unique name for your site or address. Now you have to pay a middle man a lot of money to get an address and name that no one else is using.

We need to find a way to protect innovation and promote entrepreneurship without allowing monopolists to control and patent everything unfairly.

Just as the US dropped the ball on international trade and protecting US commerce and manufacturing, they are on their way to dropping the ball on the internet and the software industry because we haven't fixed the problem in Washington.

Is the convenience of shopping at Walmart worth the cost to our US economy? Many doubt this. What allowed Walmart to become so competitive and drive small businesses out? Did they have an unfair competitive advantage?

I doubt if our politicians are wise enough to put the time in to study the cost of these monopolies on our US economy over the long run. Isn't Walmart just another word for China, Inc?

Mike Ford 4 years, 8 months ago

actually Jamestown was inhabited by incompetent English people whom the Powhattan Confederacy of thirty two Algonquian tribes in the Chesapeake Bay area felt so much pitty for that they decided not to wipe them out and they traded with them. By the 1640's, the end plot of "Avatar" had played out, and currently there are Mattiponi, Pamunkey, Rhappahannock, and Nansemond people left. A couple of the tribes have state reservations that have existed since the 1640's but the previous GOP administration stonewalled the indigenous peoples who survived the castoffs of English culture and the introduction of African slavery in 1619 to replace Native American slavery in their attempt to gain federal recognition as tribes 403 years after the invasion of Powhattan land and the beginning of the Billybob culture. Indigenous history you'll never hear in a mainstream textbook. Yokoke.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 8 months ago

The second comment from the top from Tom Shewman sums it all up.

He does not care if the Republicans lie, steal, cheat, rape, murder or whatever, as long as his side wins and Obama looses.

He has not a single moral or value, he is incapable of independent thought, just party line, and his side winning at any and all costs.

There are too many people like him, and that threatens America. He is un-American and a bigger thread to what America stands for than Al-Quada could ever be.

until he and his ilk embrace thought, facts, open discussion and rejects ignorance, blindness and a loss of morals and values, America will always be at war with itself.

We, as a nation, are able to have opposite opinion and in fact we should, but when done so with reason, facts, morals and values. Tom has failed American in every way possible.

independant1 4 years, 8 months ago

Just another stolen play form the Dem playbook.

LoveThsLife 4 years, 8 months ago

Tom hasn't failed America...he just doesn't think the way you do and it bothers you.

How ever IValue your post sounds like you might make a good politician...

Quite frankly I am in awe that people are so loyal to EITHER party. Oil money runs DC..in fact that was a joke among many of the interns working there when my Brother-In-Law was interning for Harry Reid.

Regardless of party they ban together to protect themselves....and waste a lot of money in the process. Oh yeah and both sides of the isle have been purchased by special interests groups...

Tom is what is hurting America..corruption is what is hurting America..and it is in BOTH parties.

LoveThsLife 4 years, 8 months ago

I meant to say Tom isn't what is hurting America*

Newell_Post 4 years, 8 months ago

Why in the world would supposedly loyal Americans write Thomas Jefferson out of the history books? That's a rhetorical question. You know the answer. It's because of -- guess what ? -- religion.

Jefferson wrote about the separation of church and state. That is their sole objection. He doesn't fit with their theo-fascist view of the country. These people are far more dangerous to our liberties and the survival of our country that any foreign enemy.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 8 months ago

libby, your fixation with race is showing again. If you actually read my post, I said nothing there about Dear Leader's heritage, even though half of it comes from Kansas. Let us hope he finds a more functional way of dealing with his abandonment issues than pretending his mother didn't exist.

headdoctor 4 years, 8 months ago

Arguments of the percentage of Democrats, Republicans, and Independents are irrelevant. The last election a lot of R's and I's voted Democrat without changing their registration. If the Tea Bagger's and the Republicans don't knock it off that will happen again. I don't suppose you have noticed that on the State level the Bible thumping Republicans have even managed to get many of the Republican voters in the State all riled up over the schools and such.

If I were you Tom, I would get out of your mom's basement and try breathing something besides your own hot air. BTW, I hope you still like the flavor of roasted hen(crow). You may have to choke down several plate fulls at the rate you are going.

Ralph Reed 4 years, 8 months ago

@Tom: Congratulations. You've managed to hijack another thread and turn it into another anti-liberal, anti-Pres Obama, anti-"Anything I 'believe' is Wrong" tirade.

Go back and read the article. it has nothing to do with President Obama and recent (past ten years) of American history. It does have everything to do with the Texas State Board of Education telling textbook publishers what to include. Try to keep up as I'm writing fast. The entire state of Texas uses the same texts for each grade across the state, they also have the same lesson schedule. You can go to a HS History class in Dallas Friday, look at the lesson plan for Monday, then go to Houston and observe that same class on Monday. Hence Texas buys more text books that any other state. Publishers pander to them - if Texas doesn't buy it, it seldom gets published.

The Texas State Board of Education is controlled by conservatives with a particular historical viewpoint (see Phyllis Schlafly) and what they want taught, gets taught. Because of their majority, they ignore any dissenting opinions or voices. In fact, they drove anyone not of their group from the board meetings just recently and passed what they wanted - very similar to the KS State Board of Education a few years ago.

(OK, I've slowed down and you don't need to read as fast).

These were some of the examples of the changes Texas wants (again, see the article above).

Jamestown: 400 years ago. President Obama's fault? Not unless he can time travel - only one I know who can do that is Doctor Who (he's a Time Lord). Teddy Roosevelt: A century ago. (See argument above.) FDR: Elected in 1932 and Inaugurated in 1933, well after the "Great Depression" started. Before that he was Governor of New York. He couldn't have started the depression. Oh wait, I forgot (slaps palm to forehead), President Obama stole a TARDIS, went back in time and screwed things up for President Hoover's administration by initiating everything that led up to Black Tuesday, 29 Oct 1929.

Tom, you portray yourself as relatively intelligent. Come up with legitimate arguments germane to the article and people might quit baiting you. Otherwise, continue as you are, it's enjoyable watching you thrash about and flounder (and you're not even in the deep end of the pool yet).

gravitykills 4 years, 8 months ago

ivalueamerica (anonymous) says… until he and his ilk embrace thought, facts, open discussion and rejects ignorance, blindness and a loss of morals and values, America will always be at war with itself. April 5, 2010 at 8:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

the discussion you reference.... could that be like: Unix_Admin (anonymous) says… em tea baggers sure are cute. April 5, 2010 at 10:32 a.m.

scottpewenofkit (anonymous) says… inbred morons. April 5, 2010 at 10:55 a.m.

tpatt (anonymous) says… imagine that, they're from manhattan. rednecks. April 5, 2010 at 11:16 a.m.

gatekeeper (anonymous) says… To see the intelligence of those in the Tea Party movement, just read their signs. they appear to have their own language now - teabonics. How can anyone trust them with anything when they can't read and write? Elementary school students are smarter. April 5, 2010 at 12:41 p.m.

jeremyhay 4 years, 8 months ago

McCarthy was a disgrace to the US. "McCarthyism" will for ever be a synonym for a Stalinist mindset displayed by a supposed supporter of democracy. West Germany lived with a communist state supported by the Soviet Union and populated by their fellow countrymen just over the border (the DDR). And it disappeared - not because West Germany adopted McCarthyite policies, but because wise socialists like Willi Brandt saw that detente was the best way. McCarthy was the ugly side of the US, reviled abroad by all right thinking people.

headdoctor 4 years, 8 months ago

TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says… Ummm, did you forget where the Dems were (congress) from '94-'06----12 looong years? And moreso from '00-'06?


Your point being? That was then and there were different circumstances. The Republicans are just operating out of the tired old playbook thinking that obstruction and disruption worked once and they are putting all their eggs in one basket that it will work again. It might have if the Republicans had a track record of doing anything right once they got the majority which they have had twice in recent history and blew it in grand fashion both times. They can't even figure out what they did wrong. If they know they don't want to admit it. They really are the resurrection of the Know Nothing Party and as a result are the Do Nothing Party.

gogoplata 4 years, 8 months ago

I'm all for challenging "official" history.

I like the line from Braveheart. "History is written by those who have hanged heros."

Cait McKnelly 4 years, 8 months ago

I think one of the things that gets to me is that I reported on this in my own blog almost a month ago. http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/cait4... Not a single soul commented on it.

amarieed 4 years, 8 months ago

Journal World: Have you ever considered allowing one comment per user? I appreciate reading different views and responses, but hate sorting through the sophomoric banter and personal attacks that dominate the comments sections.

Cait McKnelly 4 years, 8 months ago

I apologize, vertigo. Believe it or not I didn't realize anyone had commented on it. I wrote the post March 11 and when there were no responses within 24 hours of my posting I just assumed it had dropped off the face of cyberspace. You know what's said about people who "assume" things :)

Flap Doodle 4 years, 8 months ago

Relax and have a popsicle, paulette. Enjoy a cool and fruity treat on a Spring day.

tomatogrower 4 years, 8 months ago

Liberty275 (anonymous) says… "Child labor is a good thing?"

Never at the expense of an education. If you disagree, try to remember that next time you watch a TV show or movie with kids in it. Child labor made Hilary Duff a rich woman.

Liberty275, are you seriously comparing the children who slaved away in mines and factories in the 19th century to child actors? What does that have to do with Teddy Roosevelt's time as president? How are the reforms he made socialist? I suppose the right wingers would like to get rid of all those reforms too. And all those laws that keep parents and managers from spending all that money those child actors make. Government interference, right? Nanny government, right?

ivalueamerica 4 years, 8 months ago

LoveThsLife (anonymous) says… Tom hasn't failed America...he just doesn't think the way you do and it bothers you.


That comment is totally and completely false.

There are many people who disagree with me and are quite reasonable about it, even on these threads. Further, i am not afraid to disagree with left wingers who are guilty of the same sin.


Tom will denounce La Raza, but never has denounced the Klan.

Tom will denounce Obama or Clinton in a lie, but not Regan or Bush.

Tom will Denounce idiots like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, but not idiots like Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh for sayting the same shock jock malarkey.

I denounce both La Raza and the Klan, becuase I have a moral that racism is a crime against humanity, no matter who commits it.

I denounced Clinton when he lied about a an affair to the court, and I denounced Bush when he lied about the Intellegence reports to a joint session of Congress.

i denounce Sharpton just about every time he speaks, and i denounce Coulter about every time she speaks.

I denounced Swiftboat for trying to manipulate voters and I denounced ACORN for the same thing.

Why? Becuase the activity is either right or wrong in my books, no matter if committed by the right or the left. Many right thinkers, maybe even most, see the world like that as well. it is only a few radicals, like Tom, that refuse. That is why he fails us all.

He has sides, not morals, he needs to be right, no matter the facts and if it is not as he wants it, it is evil. That is extremism not much different than the Taliban or the Black Panthers use to try and force their point of view.

i stand my my statment, Tom has failed society deeply not because he is slightly to the right of Atila the Hun, but because he has no values or morals, only sides.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 8 months ago

lol, really Tom, well said.

I somehow knew you would swoop in and prove me right, I just never thought it would be so swift and clear.

Corey Williams 4 years, 8 months ago

TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says… "...well, I'll not comment any further."

Please, no, Tom. Don't deny me your rants, er...comments. It reminds me of that comedian, Dan Savage.

Liberty275 4 years, 8 months ago

"You know absolutely nothing about Linux, BSD or Windows."

I get paid to support windows machines and admin linux servers. It's nice getting money for something you know nothing about.

However, go ahead and prove me wrong. Show me that the same binary of VirtualDub will not run on every "Windows 98, ME, NT4, 2000, XP, Vista, Server, or newer" system without alteration, then show me how you run the same httpd binary (generally Apache) on fedora, debian and BSD without resolving conflicts caused by different package managers (apt vs, yum vs ports) and differences in filesystem hierarchies. Nevrmind the dependency problems. I don't suspect you even know what a dependency is in this context.

You are way out of your league *..

"Liberty275, are you seriously comparing the children who slaved away in mines and factories in the 19th century to child actors?"

If it was important, why was the distinction initially omitted?

A series of questions were asked begging the absolute wisdom of socialist policies. I merely answered in ways to undermine the pretext because I don't believe it is valid.

Liberty275 4 years, 8 months ago

TomShewmon, the ad homs slide off you like eggs off a Teflon frying pan. Your thick skin is an admirable trait. We may not share much philosophy in common, but at least we share a fondness for playing in that enemy's sandbox.

Poking the bear is fun when he is too inept to fight back.

Kudos and keep poking the bear,

Liberty275 4 years, 8 months ago

"Well, for one thing, how one application was developed doesn't tell you much about the consistency of the Windows API. VirtualDub? "

It tells me a complex open source binary application can run across several versions of Windows.

"Running Apache is easy. Why are you having difficulty?"

I don't have problems because I don't run a binary compiled for debian on fedora servers.

"Apache comes “preinstalled” in every Unix based system I've ever installed"

Not hardly. You choose what to install with Linux, either desktop or sever apps, or you can choose apps by groups or individually. You have never used linux have you?

"Apache comes “preinstalled” in every Unix based system I've ever installed"

Linux isn't UNIX. BSD is the only version of UNIX I've mentioned. If you don't know the distinction, then you certainly are lost.

"don't you think using the same package manager (and command set for that package manager) would be a good idea"

Maybe now you are starting to think. The package managers are different, adding a significant hurdle for developers of Linux binaries. A yum repository won't work too well for ports.

Now tell me, why does Windows not need a package manager?

"Do you know how to compile from source?"

Sure. But I'm not a developer. Why should I have to compile software? Oh yeah, because binaries won't usually work distributuions or even versions of distributions.

Yes, I compile enough software. But never any for Windows.

The Windows API is under constant flux.

Features are added on occasion and the underlying code may change, but the API remains very constant. I can pull out software written for Win95 and run it under XP very easily.

"I know what dependencies are and it sounds like you've screwed up more than your share."

I've fixed more than my share. But I've never had to fix one on Windows.

"Don't make me laugh. Microsoft is a joke."

*, joke or not, their API is stable and it being a near monopoly makes it easy for developers to write code that works on 95% of computers in use.

"You remember when Outlook 2000 corrupted the data files of anyone using Outlook Express? "

What does that gave to do with anything?.

"Microsoft released an email client that wasn't compatible at all with it's previous email client"

You meant to say "Microsoft released an email client that wasn't compatible at all with it's previous email client's data files". As usual, you show how much you don't know by calling data files "software".

Cait McKnelly 4 years, 8 months ago

Why does the majority of the posts on this thread have absolutely nothing to do with the article?

Liberty275 4 years, 8 months ago

"VirtualDub (what you probably edit your porn with) was written by one guy under the GNU agreement, a ethic which was started under the Linux community."

First, GNU was not developed by the linux community. It is loosely adhered to by some in the community. GNU is a philosophy and version of copyright (deemed copyleft) developed by The Free Software Foundation. Many linux distros disregard the GNU philosophy. That's why ubuntu will play MP3s out of the box and fedora won't, and can't be made to without compiling software or adding less restrictive repositories to yum.

Of course, BSD disregards GNU entirely because it is genuinely free without GNU copyright restrictions. That's why it was used as the basis of macosx.

If VitualDub isn't ok with you as a comparison, we'll make the comparison more direct. From the Apache 2 readme:

" * Windows NT: This means all versions of Windows that are based on the Windows NT kernel. Includes Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP and Windows .Net Server 2003. * Windows 9x: This means older, consumer-oriented versions of Windows. Includes Windows 95 (also OSR2), Windows 98 and Windows ME."

"The primary Windows platform for running Apache 2.0 is Windows NT. The binary installer only works with the x86 family of processors, such as Intel and AMD processors. Running Apache on Windows 9x is not thoroughly tested, and it is never recommended on production systems.

On all operating systems, TCP/IP networking must be installed and working. If running on Windows 95, the Winsock 2 upgrade must be installed. Winsock 2 for Windows 95 can be downloaded from here.

On Windows NT 4.0, installing Service Pack 6 is strongly recommended, as Service Pack 4 created known issues with TCP/IP and Winsock integrity that were resolved in later Service Packs."

One Apche binary will run on 15 years and about 8 versions of Windows. One binary will not run on debian, fedora and BSD of the same approximate generations, much less of versions that came out in 1995.

jayhawklawrence 4 years, 8 months ago

It is not surprising that Texas is doing this. They have a unique system in which they teach the kids Texas history before they are exposed to learning about US history. At least, this is what my Texas friends have told me.

I have mixed feelings about that, but my Texas friends think it is a very good system and promotes a strong love for their state. Maybe something we need more of in Kansas.

The people of Texas just need to get rid of the extremists on the board just like we do here in Kansas. It's good to be able to laugh at someone else for a change.

On the other hand, liberal extremist have been diluting our history books for a long time now.

It is a reminder that you can't rely solely on the education system for an education. It is also a reminder that we have to be careful who we elect to the school boards these days.

jayhawklawrence 4 years, 8 months ago

Obviously, I did not imply that Texas is a liberal state.

But it is important to remember that the pendulum of ideology tends to swing away from the facts based on somebody's particular agenda and we have to keep proving we have the right to our hard fought liberties by staying above the peculiarities of political rhetoric.

Liberty275 4 years, 8 months ago

"The funny part about your copy and past from the Apache readme is that it destroys your argument that the Windows API is consistent."

It doesn't say anything about tha API. It implies that the API for some DOS-based windows and NT-based windows will accommodate Apache. It may discourage you from running Apache on a Dos-based version of windows, but that is only because those versions lack proper preemption and can be crashed easily by a single app. Nobody with any knowledge of Windows would have used a DOS-based version for mission critical apps after NT4 was released .

"By the way, when mentioning NT4, we must always turn our heads and spit."

NT4 was the first widely used version of what has become 2000, XP, and 7. It was much more robust than any of the DOS-based versions like 3.1, 9X and Me.

"Linux is indeed "Unix""

No Linux has been certified as UNIX. Linux is UNIX-like. You don't even know what UNIX means, do you?

http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/

"as is BSD"

BSD is a derivative of UNIX because of a shared codebase. It was later used as the basis of Solaris and macosx which were both certified as UNIX.

"You don't have to be "a developer" to know how to "make, make check, make install, make clean" protocol and you should always be comfortable fixing things from command line"

On Windows you don't have to be a developer and you never need to compile anything because binaries are available thanks to the stable API. I don't mind compiling for linux, it's just that you never need to do it under windows unless you are a developer.

"extremely esoteric discussion about Windows vs Linux "

It isn't esoteric, its a good example of why a virtual monopoly can be a good thing.

"how do you know that the API is "very constant"? "

A: I have developed software for windows. B: The vast majority of applications built for the native windows API will run on everything from Win98 to Windows 7. Newer applications may require newer versions of windows to provide additional APIs, but newer versions of windows have extremely good backwards compatibility because parts of the API are rarely jettisoned. It is stable, not stagnant.

"That's like saying that you know how a car drives prior to admitting that you've never driven a car."

I've never driven a tank, but I guarantee you I could sit down in one and drive it. But that's irrelevant. I'm not a developer by trade, but I've written software and I've installed lots of software on lots of computers. I Know I can drive the car because I have driven the car.

Liberty275 4 years, 8 months ago

"They phased out the 98 line after me. w2k, xp, Vista and 7 are all continuations of the NT line. Why don't you know this? Because you haven't been doing this as long as I have. "

Wowzers Batman!. And to think I only started on DOS (for Autocad) and windows 3.1. Why don't you know this? Probably because you didn't know there was a version of Windows called 3.1 or something called DOS. I also started on Redhat 1..

"I provided a real world example of Microsoft not being "constant" or "stable" with applications in it's own product line and you had no idea what I was talking about. "

Applications are not APIs. They rely on an operating system's APIs and both Outlook and Outlook Express will run side-by-side, simultaneously, on the same computer making calls to the same APIs.

If you don't know the difference between an API and an application, That isn't surprising as you very often have trouble with anything that is an abstraction. .

"I've attended lectures / inservices by Microsoft representatives where they freely admitted that they had no idea what the final production release would be like in several months. "

Red herring. Fail for logical fallacy.

"The "API" was still in development. Been that way forever, Liberty275. "

Yes, it will be added to. It isn't stagnant. However it is extremely backwards compatible, making it easy for developers to write and compile once and run on a decade of Operating systems. The anarchist nature of Linux prevents that. That's what I've said all along.

Honestly, I don't know what you are arguing about. I'm a pretty big fan of Linux and use it daily. Unlike you, I use it enough to know it's weaknesses compared to Window's strengths.

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