Archive for Thursday, April 1, 2010

Roeder, 52, sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for at least 51 years, 8 months

April 1, 2010, 9:25 a.m. Updated April 1, 2010, 6:47 p.m.

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— Defiant in court, a man who murdered one of the few U.S. doctors who performed late-term abortions used his sentencing hearing to do what the judge wouldn’t let him do during his trial — justify his crime by describing abortion in gritty detail.

Scott Roeder was sentenced Thursday to life in prison with no possibility of parole for 50 years, the harshest sentence possible under Kansas law for gunning down Dr. George Tiller in the foyer of the Wichita physician’s church last May.

“I stopped him so he could not dismember another innocent baby,” Roeder said. “Wichita is a far safer place for unborn babies without George Tiller.”

Roeder, 52, also was sentenced to an additional year in prison on each of two counts of aggravated assault for threatening two church ushers as he fled. With time off for good behavior, Roeder won’t be eligible for parole for 51 years and eight months.

An attorney for Tiller, speaking in court as a friend of the slain doctor, said the toughest sentence would discourage other anti-abortion zealots from attacking doctors. Tiller’s widow, Jeanne, cried as the sentence for murder was announced. “We only can hope that this sentence will serve as a deterrent to those who have conspired and continue to conspire to murder abortion providers,” the Tiller family said in a statement.

District Judge Warren Wilbert could have made Roeder eligible for parole on the murder charge after 25 years. But he said there was evidence Roeder stalked Tiller and added that killing him in a church made the crime heinous because a house of worship is meant to be “a place of peace and tranquility.”

Roeder also took the opportunity to describe abortion procedures in detail, which he had been forbidden from doing during his trial. Most abortions are legal in Kansas, and prosecutors were careful not turn the trial into a referendum on the issue.

Comments

mickeyrat 5 years, 1 month ago

Reading this article, I thought to comment on the relative threat of violence between the two sides of the abortion debate, but the line about "dogs sniffing reporters' equipment" pretty much ruined any chance of me being serious this morning.

Jimo 5 years, 1 month ago

Too bad we are better at proofreadin stories about sentencin.

John Spencer 5 years, 1 month ago

Wichita — he murder of

Should be The....

DrRustinMcGillicuddy 5 years, 1 month ago

According to the Florida Department of Corrections, it costs about $20,000 per year to keep and maintain an inmate per year. Now my tax dollars will be spent to keep this ignoble degenerate alive for, more than likely, 50 years while he continues a meaningless and ultimately trivial end to his life. He is not a martyr; he was an absolute coward and a leap backwards for all those who have fought hard for women's rights.

akt2 5 years, 1 month ago

At 28 weeks, the hospital "procedure" that my sister-in-law had for fetal demise, was 7 hours of induced labor to deliver a dead baby. That is about as barbaric as it gets.

tomatogrower 5 years, 1 month ago

"As he spoke about Tiller as a devoted grandfather, Tiller's widow, Jeanne, cried. Roeder at times looked away, yawned and took a drink of water."

There's a surprise since family means nothing to this jerk. He didn't even pay child support.

LoveThsLife 5 years, 1 month ago

Porch..what exactly do you mean by.."As LoveThsLife found out, it's a cause "too good to lose" for some."???

Are you likening me to this nut case who shot Tiller? If so then you have issues.. Just because I am critical of the pro-abortion arguments I have read on here does not mean I am in the same boat as someone who a) wastes their time picketing abortion clinics or b) kills people who view an issue differently.

3crookedhearts 5 years, 1 month ago

Does anyone have a BarryPenders to English dictionary?

LoveThsLife 5 years, 1 month ago

Oak-

In most cases, the woman's own Ob-Gyn will deal with those issues that arise.

imastinker 5 years, 1 month ago

If Roeder gets out, I have no doubt there will be two dead abortion docs.

Throw away the key!

RogueThrill 5 years, 1 month ago

A brand name like Toyota, AIG and Enron.

somedude20 5 years, 1 month ago

TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says… "Does anyone have a BarryPenders to English dictionary?" - autie

Reminds me of a Police song, "De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da"

"Poets, priests and poiticians Have words to thank for their positions Words that scream for your submission And no one's jamming their transmission 'Cos when their eloquence escapes you Their logic ties you

There are not enough Police fans out there. Happy to see that you are spreading their word. You just went up a few notches in my book kid!

ebyrdstarr 5 years, 1 month ago

sorry, edjayhawk, but life without possibility of parole is not an option in this case.

HW 5 years, 1 month ago

I still don't understand how a "life sentence" can be considered a life sentence if there is even a chance for parole. Can anybody, maybe ebyrdstarr, explain the legal meaning of "Life in prison". Is it a certain amount of time or something. It makes sense to me that sombody sentenced to life would die in prison because they are in there for the rest of their life. Thanks in advance.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

"If late term abortion is really a medical necessity and not the murder of a living child, then why can't the woman go to any hospital for what would be an operation?"

Maybe hospitals don't want to get firebombed, or have their doctors murdered.

Kirk Larson 5 years, 1 month ago

Oak, Also, some hospitals do not perform such procedures either from ideology, as most Catholic run hospitals, or from liability, since they are afraid of cowardly theocratic domestic terrorists like Roeder.

gccs14r 5 years, 1 month ago

"I think we need another word than abortion for these cases and save abortion for a purely elective procedure."

Sorry, you don't get to pick the word. The medical term for a miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion. Calling it a miscarriage is unfair to the woman, because it implies blame for failure of the fetus to develop full-term.

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 1 month ago

Domestic terrorism is all the rage now, with the tea-baggers and Hutaree andn Roeder and Operation rescue.

Abortion and the fact the Barack Hussein Obama, Pesident of the United States and Commander in Chief of the US military, is a black man of Kenyan ancestry, is just too much for this sniveling little right-wing children.

Rebel, tea-baggers. Abortion and a black president! Revolution! Take your country back! Hutaree! Scream like little babies who lost their binky!

Crispian Paul 5 years, 1 month ago

I have to say regardless of what side of the debate you are on (and yes, I will say I am pro-choice but believe abortion is a highly personal decision), there is no excuse for stalking and killing a man in church in front of his family and churchgoing folks, for a legal, although undesirable profession. And, yes, I said stalking. Mr. Roeder went to Tiller's gated community to do "recon" before the murder, took a gun to Tiller's church once before just to see if he could, not to mention that he placed the entire church of innocent bystanders at risk. If you don't like what he did as a profession and as he saw it, a service to women in need for a variety of reasons, take it up with the legislature and good luck with that. Tiller performed a legal service. Any women (and their partners if they are involved) actually receiving a late term abortion and the Dr. must make that decision together and based on that woman's circumstances and I imagine it is not an easy decision for either party. According to the implied logic of some, are then fetuses or unborn or whatever you choose to call them more important that innocent, living men, women and children? Therefore, I would say any talk of rationalizing this act by mentioning the LEGAL service performed and how Tiller was a "jerk" or any personal attacks only serves to undermine the fact that Roeder murdered someone.....No excuse, period. I believe that if I had a family member murdered in cold blood, regardless of what kind of person I or any one else thought they were, I would hope that they would receive justice free of rationalizations for the act.

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 1 month ago

Roeder is being persecuted by libero-Obama-Pelosi-pro-baby-killing jack-booted blac helicopter thugs that run the lamestream media.

Free Scott Roeder! Free Scott Roeder! Revolution tea-baggers! Our president is black and murderers of doctors are imprisoned. Take to the streets! Hutaree! Rebel!

(sad trombone) Waaa waaa waaa waaaaaaaaaaa

tomatogrower 5 years, 1 month ago

Good for the judge. Now no more publicity to this jerk.

Ace_Ventura 5 years, 1 month ago

It was bad for this guy to do what he did. But it was bad for the person he killed to do what he did. I think they need to let him out so he can take care of Fred Phelps.

Crispian Paul 5 years, 1 month ago

That's not technically correct....IF The fetus could have lived outside the womb on it's own, you may get this charge.....Sorry, failure of an argument.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 5 years, 1 month ago

Not good enough.

This piece of depraved human garbage should have gotten the death penalty for cold-blodded pre-meditated murder.

There are probebly more of these zealots just waiting to strike.

Liberty275 5 years, 1 month ago

Why wasn't the death penalty imposed?

riverdrifter 5 years, 1 month ago

"Roeder should be sentenced under the out back rules. Take him out back and get it done and over with...."

Or as Judge Roy Bean said: "He's had his fair trial. Now take him out and hang him. Twice."

parrothead8 5 years, 1 month ago

HW (anonymous) says… I still don't understand how a "life sentence" can be considered a life sentence if there is even a chance for parole

Well, in Roeder's case, he's eligible for parole in about 52 years...when he'll be 104. Would you not consider that the rest of his life?

Kirk Larson 5 years, 1 month ago

All those calling for Roeder's execution, tsk tsk. Sure, he's pathetic scum for trying to impose his view of something so personal on people who don't share his beliefs. But the higher road, the true "Pro-Life" position, is to put him away and never let him out. Society should avoid passing out death on others when we can avoid it otherwise it just gets too darn easy and next thing you know we're declaring war on some country 'cause they looked at us funny. Pro choice: it's the American Way.

Liberty275 5 years, 1 month ago

Maybe the feds can convict and execute him. I don't want my tax dollars putting food in his mouth.

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 1 month ago

Roeder, your soul may belong to god, but your arse belongs to the state of Kansas.

Jaylee 5 years, 1 month ago

what time machine did this guy step out of, and from what time?

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 1 month ago

Oh, I want roeder to live a long life behind bars, with full knowledge that modern life, including abortion, goes on despite his pathetic act of a cry- baby infant.

A woman's right to an abortion will continue. Modern society will forget all about this weasly little coward.

Here's to the next 50 years, Scott.

I have my freedom. I can go out, I can come in. Out. In. Out. In.

Sad trombones for roeder waaaa waaa waaaa waaaaaa.

LoveThsLife 5 years, 1 month ago

Porch,

I don't remember saying that, but I can agree with what you said.

Ace_Ventura 5 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

mr_right_wing 5 years, 1 month ago

What Tiller did was unthinkable...unspeakably horrifying, but to our utter shame as a society with very little value for human life; it is legal.

Taking the law into your own hands and killing Tiller was wrong as well. That old saying applies perfectly here; two wrongs don't make a right.

The sentence seems appropriate, Roeder should never see the outside of a prison again.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 1 month ago

If he ever comes up for parole he will be 103 years old. I doubt he will live that long. More likely is he will acquire a terminal illness eventually and be released on compassionate parole.

kimmydarling 5 years, 1 month ago

Well, yes being pro-life would make one think perhaps the death penalty is wrong. I, however, am highly pro-choice and really think in this case due to the highly pre-meditated nature of the crime capital punishment should have been considered.

Like it or not, abortion is legal. It is, and must remain so in order to be a safe option for women. Then again, most pro-life people I know are pro-birth. The quality of the life of the resulting child isn't their concern

sad_lawrencian 5 years, 1 month ago

Not harsh enough. Should have gotten the death penalty.

LoveThsLife 5 years, 1 month ago

Lawrenceguy- I think he is probably mentally ill as well, normal people just don't behave that way, regardless of his beliefs.

The punishment is fitting for the crime.

LoveThsLife 5 years, 1 month ago

Agnostick-

I didn't mean to "hijack" the thread. I was responding to a post that had my name in it.

Sorry if it upset you.

jaywalker 5 years, 1 month ago

May he rot. However, if this wasn't a clear cut case for death row then nothing is. No appeals, no nothing. Straight to the chair, thank you very little. This guy doesn't deserve a last meal.

kimmydarling 5 years, 1 month ago

MacHealth, why the value system that says a fetus is of the same standing as an already functioning human adult, naturally.

Of course, by the logic of people who think abortion should be illegal despite the fact that it relies on another human to keep the fetus alive.... if I were dying of kidney failure I should be able to walk up to someone with healthy kidneys and demand they produce one of theirs for me. If they don't they're just selfish and don't think of another life that will end on their whim!

LoveThsLife 5 years, 1 month ago

Infants rely on others to keep them alive as well kimmy. So do people with certain physical and mental issues....your logic doesn't make much sense.

denak 5 years, 1 month ago

When all is said and done, Roeder killed one person. Where is the outrage for all the other people who were killed in the last 11 months? Where is the outrage towards the killers who murdered multiple people in this time span? Most of who got lighter sentences than Roeder.

There are so many on here who love to act superior and accuse Pro-Lifers of only being concerned about children before they are born,(which is nonsense) but I don't see a lot of the pro-choicers/pro-abortion crowd all up in arms about the murders of all the innocent people since Tiller was shot.

Dena

jaywalker 5 years, 1 month ago

Quit tilting at windmills, denak. Exactly what do you want from everyone? Life's too short to get bent over EVERY SINGLE atrocity. Do you honestly believe those you wish to denigrate don't care one bit about any other murder? Where's your "outrage towards the killers" over the last 11 months? Commented and railed against every single one yourself? Of course not. No one has the time, let alone the stomach. to get emotionally involved with every crime against humanity. Grow a little perspective, for cryin' out loud, and please refrain from criticizing others so hypocritically out of hand. While you're at it trade in your Holier Than Thou membership card. But don't forget to genuflect when you do.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

balishag: "Only a liberal has such twisted logic."

If you think that's true, you haven't been reading enough of the comments. Or, perhaps, things that tickle your agenda lobe in a pleasantly agreeable way simply override your ability to discern logical twists.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

lawrenceguy: "You have just reinforced my opinion of the liberal mindset - no answers, sarcastic rhetoric and then some name calling."

Haha. I didn't know that you were a liberal, lawrenceguy. Or are you just a hypocrite?

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

"I am just an ordinary hard working guy with common sense conservative morals. I believe in God, hard work and family"

You appear to have forgotten "with vitriolic hatred for anybody who does not exactly share my viewpoints on those things." It's actually, I would say, the most important point of your character, far more than these others. At least it is on here.

tomatogrower 5 years, 1 month ago

Could those of you who are so against abortion answer this question. Many of you don't seem to care for children after they are born. You don't want to pay taxes for schools. You spit on people who are on welfare. You can't stand women breast feeding in public. Roeder wasn't even man enough to take care of his own children. You put other people down for not working, but he couldn't hold down a job for long, and many of your "leaders" don't work for a living.
They just take your donations. They don't really want abortion illegal. They would have to go get a real job.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

porch_person (anonymous) says… "May he rot. However, if this wasn't a clear cut case for death row then nothing is. No appeals, no nothing. Straight to the chair, thank you very little. This guy doesn't deserve a last meal. " --- jaywalker

'What he said. Word for word.'

You probably just made jaywalker's head asplode.

tomatogrower 5 years, 1 month ago

balishag (anonymous) says… tomatogrower -The welfare of the child after birth is a completely separate issue. It's laughable how you generalize Pro Lifers. I'm a big supporter of breastfeeding....

I don't think it's a separate issue at all. Many women get abortions, because they haven't the money to support the child. How can you say that it's a separate issue? Do you only feel responsibility towards fetuses? Roeder only felt that. Bring them into the world, then let someone else take care of them. If you care about a fetus, how can you not care about the child. Are they just on their own afterwards?

beatrice 5 years, 1 month ago

People freaked out on these boards when people "picked" on Irish, yet here people are picking on lawrenceguy40. I mean, come on people, have a heart! He is letting us know up front that he is a guy who lives in Lawrence, and has an IQ of 40 -- so cut him a little slack!

Honestly, could anyone other than someone with such a low IQ come up with this little gem: "chose between getting rid of the guy who breaks the necks of newborn babies or the guy who shoots child killers in the head."

"breaks the necks of newborn babies" -- yep, that is exactly what Tiller did, to newborns no less. (uh oh. My eyes just rolled so hard back into my head I think they may have stuck that way.)

LoveThsLife 5 years, 1 month ago

What about adoption tomatogrower? I think in many cases it is a VERY good option... and could make it easier for people wanting to adopt.

While I don't think abortion is the answer in cases where the mother and fetus are healthy (I think in those cases it become a form of birth control). I understand their are exceptions (rape, incest, danger to mom's health etc.)

What I have issues with is even though abortion IS legal...how many women who get it really understand the potential risks of the procedure???? Or are prepared with how it may affect them emotionally????

LoveThsLife 5 years, 1 month ago

none2 thanks for the link...what a sad story.

I do have issues with those who are so extreme that they won't allow for abortion under ANY circumstance.

However, I still have issues with abortion being used in many cases as a form of birth control.

Thanks for the link though.

denak 5 years, 1 month ago

lol hit a nerve there, didn't I, Jaywalker? You rile against this death, as if this death/murder is so heinous, so much worst than any other murder/death, and yet, you don't over other ones. It isn't because you feel so passionate about Tiller, it is because you want to feel superior. It is you, and some of the other pro-choicers, who are the holier than thous on here.

How many of you have fostered children? How many of you have adopted children either at birth or via the system?

Just in case some of you actually want to put your money where you mouth is, and do something other than act superior and promote stereotypes, here are the local numbers for TFI and KVC.

KVC:331-4200 TFI:749-2664

KVC has the foster care/adoption contract to the east of us. TFI (The Farm) has the contract to the west of us. Lawrence falls in the middle so it doesn't really matter which of the two agencies you pick in this area.

I have a feeling though, your passion for this issue, like many people, extends only to what clever insult they can come up with and like many, you don't really care about the kids, born or unborn, one way or the other.

Dena

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

Gee, Dena, imagine someone having a nerve struck by such pointless assumptions and generalizations.

kimmydarling 5 years, 1 month ago

it "becomes" a form of birth control? By its very nature, it IS a form of birth control. It prevents birth, try again.

Also, anyone going "hey just give it up for adoption" ..oh, ok. sure, That's always easy without massive emotional trauma potential

jaywalker 5 years, 1 month ago

"Could those of you who are so against abortion answer this question."

Tomato:
I was intrigued by your opener, though I'm not in the anti column; thought you might have a good tack coming. Just had a feeling you had something. And then....

Bupkiss. Everything after the above was worthless. 'Nuff said.

jaywalker 5 years, 1 month ago

jonas,

Naw, no 'asplodin'' goin' on. It's not the first time porch has quoted and backed me. 'Course that first time........B<{|

Where you been? I've had to get more involved with my biz lately and haven't been on the boards as much. Wanted to talk w/ you 'bout the 'Hawks but our early ouster forced me to ban all sports related jabber for a while. Your game give you any insight to the N. Iowa bummer?

jaywalker 5 years, 1 month ago

Dena:

Hit a nerve? Yup. With your idiocy and hypocrisy. Please prove to all of us how you've "riled" against every murder in the last 11 months. And even if you had (which we no is not true), the only thing that would prove is that you're the saddest person on the planet. Again, gain some perspective. This was one heinous murder out of how many? The reason people are commenting on it is ........duhhh........it's on this board and it has teeth. Are you really shocked that this murder is more closely scrutinized than the one between two homeless men a few days ago? Sorry, don't know about your macabre life, but I prefer to limit my intake when it comes to the bigotry, blood-thirst, and general evil of man.

"You rile against this death, as if this death/murder is so heinous, so much worst than any other murder/death, and yet, you don't over other ones. It isn't because you feel so passionate about Tiller, it is because you want to feel superior."

Never riled, just called it for what it was. Never said it was so much worst [sic] in any fashion or form.

"..don't have other ones." ?

What the heck does that even mean? Hundred percent positive I've commented on other murders on this board, and unless it was a pedophile or rapist that got the ax, I'm fairly certain I was disturbed and dismayed about them as well.

And I don't "feel passionate about Tiller" in any way. I'm passionate about the hypocrisy and callousness Roeder exuded by walking up to a man in the House of God he himself supposedly cherishes and then ending that man's life in front of dozens of people. That man was doing his job and performing a medical service that's legal.

The only one projecting superiority is you, kiddo ('course now I've just done it too, so....). Holier than thou is PRETENDING that ALL murders are just as important to yourself as any other, so they then should be to everyone else. The hypocrisy you exhibit with that blatant and obvious lie is astounding.

And I've been intimately involved with BB, BS for almost 20 years. You have no idea how much I hope that fits your criteria...........

jaywalker 5 years, 1 month ago

"How many of you have fostered children? How many of you have adopted children either at birth or via the system?"

Was gonna let it go, but what the heck....

Do you actually know what "holier than thou" means? For the love...! I take it from the above that you've fostered and/or adopted children. From the bottom of my heart: God bless you and thank you. I'm adopted, as are my siblings. Nevertheless, how can someone pose that and then accuse others are being holier than thou? How can you honestly throw that out there, dare people to "put their money where their mouth is", and not smell the hypocrisy you're peddlin'?

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 1 month ago

@tennesseerader Then you are not prolife, you are probirth, which is a totally different thing. It means you would force women to carry dead fetuses and deliver them "naturally". It means you would force women to carry babies with no brains, no lungs, hearts so messed up that they only way they "live" is through the umbilical cord. It means you would force not only women but little girls as young as 9(!) to carry the products of rape and incest, conceptions that should have never occurred in the first place, never mind the health hazards of a 9, 11, or 13 year old carrying a pregnancy; simply because you think the result of such a horrific pregnancy is "innocent" and has the "right to live". It means you would force women with terminal illnesses to fore go treatment until after she delivers. You don't care the baby will be an orphan. Basically it means, in your mind, women/girls; people who already "born", don't have a "right to life". You would have never served on the jury. You would have automatically disqualified yourself during voir dire, unless you lied under oath with the specific purpose of throwing the jury. Then you wouldn't have done anything but created a mistrial and faced jail time yourself. I'm very glad that the twelve people who did serve followed the law. I don't care what his beliefs or convictions were, Roeder shot a man who legally did nothing wrong in cold blood after stalking him for months. Whether you pulled the trigger or not, your statement makes you just as much of a murderer as he is.

Amy Heeter 5 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

kimmydarling 5 years, 1 month ago

None2, you're missing the point. People say "give it up for adoption" as if that in no way effects the woman who would be carrying the child.

There are nine months of medical developments, possibility of death and disease (Gestational Diabetes can lead to blindness if not properly managed, hypertension, pre-eclampsia etc). There's nine months of physical discomfort and pain to be considered. Then after all that, there is anywhere from 1 hour to several days of labor potential before an infant is born. If that doesn't work, the woman then gets to undergo major abdominal surgery to produce said infant. After ALL that, there would then be the huge hormonal shift from the end of pregnancy compiled with what even under GOOD circumstances is considered a hugely emotionally painful time at separating themselves from the resulting child which they will then likely not see again.

I can promise you, it isn't as easy as "just do this". One, no one has the right to tell a woman her only option is to act as a gestational carrier for an unwanted child if she doesn't feel she will be strong enough emotionally to give the child up for adoption. Two, where are the people who then turn around and provide followup emotional support and counseling for the women who do? Yes, many MANY women give that gift to people and those that can and do should be lauded for their sacrifice. However just as many, if not more, cannot bring themselves to do that AND cannot bring themselves to bring a child into a situation that isn't optimal.

Don't even get me started on the misogynist, imbalanced nature of abstinence is the only way to prevent pregnancy as it forces ONLY women to assume the "fault" role should they have sex and end up pregnant despite precautions.

This whole debate is being fought on most levels by men, have you noticed that? Always a huge number of men protesting abortion rights. Men who will never get pregnant. Men who will never have a moment of fear and panic. Men who will never have to make that choice and men who will never be insulted, threatened or assaulted for making that choice.

No, I don't respect pro-lifers. It was pro-life protesters who told me God would hate me and I would be going to hell as a baby murderer. It was the pro life protesters who screamed that Life begins at conception because GOD says so and then spit on the women I was escorting into the clinic. Show me where God says "hey go out and spread fear and anger in my name". I think that's the hardest part for most people to get over. The people calling themselves conservative, God fearing pro-lifers and yet doing nothing more than spreading hate.

When we, as a society, are better able to be supportive of women perhaps we'll see less abortion. I'm not Pro-Abortion but pro-choice. I don't like it, but I know it's necessary and I'd be a hypocrite to tell other women not to have one after I have.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 1 month ago

Kimmy are you my daughter? You're saying what I've been saying for close to 40 years. I knew when I saw none2's reply he/she had missed the entire point. How typical that they immediately jumped to the viewpoint of the adopted child and completely missed that of the woman who bore it.

brujablanco 5 years, 1 month ago

artichoke:

We must remember if you go through life feeling angry and acting in an angry manner towards others it will have an impact on you.

First of all it can effect you physically. Research has shown that those who are angry much of the time are more prone to heart attack, stroke, accidents, injuries of the body, especially the hands, not to mention emotional byproducts.

Secondly if you are always angry and lashing out at others you eventually find yourself alone. Loneliness and depression can easily come from your own actions.

And third if you go through life angry and acting in a hateful way towards others you also distance yourself from the Divine.

This is just a reflection of the undeniable truth that our actions DO have consequences. I sincerely hope you find peace in your life.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 1 month ago

On the contrary, none2, my grandmother, who was born in 1885, bore 10 children, the last when she was 42 years old. One died shortly after birth, two died at the ages of 4 and 6 from typhoid and one who went deaf from measles at the age of 8 died as a young adult when he crossed a street and was hit by a truck he didn't hear coming. Her oldest daughter, my father's half sister, was 16 when my dad was born in 1921. When my dad was 10 years old his sister died in a back alley abortion when her husband threatened to leave her if she had another baby. Yes, we do indeed remember those sacrifices.

LoveThsLife 5 years, 1 month ago

Give me a break Kimmy-that was the most selfish viewpoint I have ever heard.

As woman who HAD border line gestational diabetes during her pregnancy and ended up having an emergency c-section as well as a Congenital CMV scare at the beginning of her pregnancy I am VERY aware of the issues that women face during pregnancy.

However, I still find it selfish to create a life and then decide to abort it...because you don't want it.

In addition, I have always found it so interesting that those who are so adamantly pro-choice don't do more to educate women and girls on the potential issues abortion can have on their bodies. I wonder if women were more empowered with such knowledge if they would make different choices.

I understand that this is problem not just with abortion but many other procedures as well.

Quite frankly I have a close friend who DID have an abortion in high school and another associate who got pregnant as a teenager and chose to give the baby up for adoption...you want to know which scenario ended up working out better? I'll give you a guess.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 1 month ago

What works for one doesn't always work for another. I'm sure there are women that for one reason or another did regret aborting, especially with the massive guilt tripping imposed by certain segments of society. But overall I would guess that those women who ended up regretting it is a very small percentage. I don't have any statistics to back that up. I don't think a reputable study by a disinterested third party has ever been done. You can quote your experiences and I can quote mine with the opposite result. Neither is going to carry any weight. However, I can tell you I belong to an online list called "I'm Not Sorry" where women who have had abortions can post about their experiences anonymously and know they won't be judged (it's heavily moderated to prevent that). There are now over a 1,000 postings there and some of the stories of why these women had abortions are heartbreaking. Not a single one of them regrets it.

"However, I still find it selfish to create a life and then decide to abort it...because you don't want it. "

That's a pretty judgmental statement. Very few of the women I know who aborted set out to create a life purposely. Those that did, did so because there was something radically wrong with them or the baby and having to abort was a heart breaking experience for them. The fact that you would pile guilt on top of the pain they have already experienced in losing a child that they wanted is pretty callous.

kimmydarling 5 years, 1 month ago

Are you serious? what possible scenarios should they be educated on that they aren't educated on about abortion? I am talking scientific fact, not pro-life rhetoric btw.

Yes, there is an emotional choice. yes there is pain, chance of infection or perforation of the uterus (extraordinarily low)..aaand that's about it. Uterine scarring so rarely causes any side effects and if one more person actually believes it can cause you to NOT get pregnant in the future I swear on a stack of bibles that I'll just give up hope in people because that's been proven wrong time and again

kimmydarling 5 years, 1 month ago

Cait, I'll give you a statistic. I regret only that I was put in a position where that choice was the only viable option. I do not, in any way, regret the choice I made.

LoveThsLife 5 years, 1 month ago

Cait- my comment wasn't about therapeutic abortion....please re-read earlier posts before calling me callous.

Kimmy- Actually there have been a lot of studies done about how abortion may affect a woman's reproductive health. The information is conflicting at best...especially when taking into the fact that the different procedures are not created equally.

Induced abortion has been linked to Pelvic Inflammatory disease. There have been studies showing that when certain procedures are done there is an increased likelihood for miscarriage later on. There have been other studies done showing that abortion may affect birth weight in latter pregnancies. Also there have been studies done on the psychological effects of abortion on women...some of those studies found that if a woman had a previous history of depression they were more likely to be negatively impacted emotionally by the abortion.

While there are other studies obviously rebutting some of the studies I am referring to..it's best to say that it's really not conclusive.

I think it is extremely important that women research it out. My issue with the pro-choice movement is that it is all white washed "oh it's a safe procedure...blah blah blah" when in reality it isn't that cut and dry. On the other hand there is the pro-life camp saying things that in fact are an over-exaggeration to scare people. Women need to be more informed.... And while I am not supportive of abortion in general (I do feel like there are obvious exceptions). I do feel that if a woman is going to choose to do such a procedure she should at least make an informed decision about it.

None2: Thanks for your post I agree with you what you said.

Crispian Paul 5 years, 1 month ago

tennesseeraider--Justifiable homicide is if you kill someone for doing something illegal, basically, which Tiller was not.....If you were on a jury, you would be going against the letter and spirit of the law.....Your argument FAILS!

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