Oread cell towers raise concerns / LJWorld.com

Archive for Wednesday, September 30, 2009

Cell towers on top of the Oread hotel are raising concerns with the city. The towers bring the building's total height to more than 150 feet, higher than what was originally proposed.

By Chad Lawhorn

September 30, 2009, 12:00 a.m. Updated September 30, 2009, 9:36 a.m.

Photo by Mike Yoder

The four tallest towers on The Oread are individual cell towers for companies like AT&T, Sprint and other telephone companies. This view of the hotel is taken from the north side of the building, which faces the Kansas University campus to the south.

They may be the most unusual cellular telephone towers in Lawrence.

As the Oread hotel development takes its place in the Lawrence skyline, the four 50-foot cellular telephone towers atop the building are generating attention — and some questions about whether the design of the hotel building was properly presented to city commissioners for approval.

City planning director Scott McCullough confirmed Tuesday that official drawings submitted to the city showed the towers — which also will double as flagpoles — being 33 feet shorter than what they actually are.

“We probably should have asked for a better depiction of what the maximum structure could look like with the flagpoles,” McCullough said.

But McCullough said the towers are legal. That’s because in addition to the drawings, the developers submitted several notes that were attached to the final development plan. One of the notes — one of about 55 presented in footnote form — said the towers ultimately could increase the total height of the building to 156 feet.

McCullough said the written notes take precedence over the drawings.

“We knew of the note,” McCullough said. “We were not surprised by the height of the towers.”

But at a March 3 City Commission meeting when the plans were presented, commissioners were not clearly told that the height of the building was growing so significantly.

Instead, city commissioners were provided a staff memo that said the new height of the building would be 123 feet, up from 114 feet because some elevator equipment needed to be added to the roof.

The issue of adding the four cellular towers was addressed in another part of the memo. But the memo did not mention how much height the towers would add to the building. Instead, it showed a drawing that depicts the towers being about the same height as the elevator towers. In reality, the towers are about 33 feet taller than shown in the drawing.

Read the fine print

McCullough agreed that the only way commissioners or the public would have known that the height of the building — including the towers — had increased from 123 feet to 156 feet is to have read the one technical note on the plan.

“If we didn’t highlight the note, it is because it was a very large project and we didn’t highlight every detail of it,” McCullough said.

But the height of the building had been a hotly debated topic with the public. City and planning commissioners struggled for months over how tall the building should be. The idea of adding cellular towers to the top of the building was proposed late in the process, after city and planning commissioners already had approved most of the project.

“I think the staff did not do its job here, or was just plain intimidated,” said Dennis Domer, dean emeritus of the Kansas University School of Architecture and critic of the building’s design.

He said the towers are such a prominent feature of the building that the public should have had the opportunity to see and comment on what it would look like.

“They add significantly to the silhouette of that building and the skyline,” Domer said.

Other concerns

Some neighbors, though, said they didn’t mind. Carol vonTersch, who lives near the hotel, said the towers had not created significant discussion among members of the Oread Neighborhood Association.

“It certainly grew from the time the neighborhood association first looked at it and supported it, but that is not to say that the neighborhood association is displeased,” vonTersch said.

She said neighbors were more concerned with parking issues, which they believe have been addressed well by the project.

City Commissioner Mike Amyx said he also was fine with the tower issue. He said the fact that the information about the potential height of the towers was included in the notes was enough.

“Do they take away from the facility?” Amyx asked. “In my opinion, they do not. I think it is a gorgeous facility and will fill a lot of needs.”

Nancy Longhurst, general manager for the hotel, said she didn’t have specific information about how the cell phone towers were designed. Attempts to reach Thomas Fritzel — who leads the hotel’s development group that includes Lawrence businessmen Tim Fritzel and Todd Sutherland — were not successful. An attempt to reach the project’s lead architect with NSPJ Architects also was not successful.

The hotel is scheduled to open in January.

Discussion

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30 September 2009
at 1:19 a.m.

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Bladerunner (Anonymous) says…

I for one, am unconcerned.
30 September 2009
at 5:53 a.m.

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concernedcit (Anonymous) says…

How does one have the arrogance to just add 33' to a building and everyone at the city just roll over? This is unacceptable behavior from the developer and the city staff. How can I take them seriously with future submittals? They submitted a plan and they should abide with the plan and lower the towers to the approved height. Height was a huge deal with the citizens. Remember they are not approved above the approved height. My word man, this is why we the approval process. This is why we have a city planning staff, planning board and city commission. Guys please do your jobs.
30 September 2009
at 5:57 a.m.

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leftylucky (Anonymous) says…

If the city commission was told the building is 123 ft with the towers then it should be 123 ft. The cell phone towers are quit ugly. Tear them down and make them the height of 123 ft. If this is the procedure for the planning commission then all plans submitted will start having fine print that the public will never see. Heck who needs a plan if you have fine print.
30 September 2009
at 6:16 a.m.

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LogicMan (Anonymous) says…

They make the place look like an old, abandoned factory, IMHO. Too bad.
30 September 2009
at 6:33 a.m.

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notwhatyourthink (Anonymous) says…

Concerned
Did you read the article! The city said it was informed. It is just that everyone didn't read all the notes.

Lefty
Guess what the city commission doesn't get to approve every building or aspect of all plans. Every building permit doesn't go before the commission. That is the job of the Codes dept.

You people whine about sales tax being down and how high your property taxes are on your dinky house. Then someone wants to build something that will bring people here to spend money and you whine about that. Give me a break
30 September 2009
at 6:35 a.m.

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Made_in_China (Paul R. Getto) says…

An ugly top-off to an ugly addition to the Lawrence “skyline.”
30 September 2009
at 6:37 a.m.

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Kris_H (Anonymous) says…

You won't object if you get better cell phone reception, will you? What's another 30 feet for four sticks? The whole thing is ugly anyway; they won't add much to the general ugliness.

30 September 2009
at 6:40 a.m.

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devobrun (Anonymous) says…

“They may be the most unique cellular telephone towers in Lawrence.”

Unique: one of a kind. singular. none like it.

Unusual: out of the ordinary.

Newspaper reporters: neither of the above.

Look Chad, nothing can be very one-of a-kind. It can't be the most nothing-like-it. It is either unique or it isn't.

When you plug in the definition of the word unique, your opening sentence is ridiculous. I didn't bother reading the rest of the article.
30 September 2009
at 6:42 a.m.

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bondmen (Anonymous) says…

Our concern should be the epidemic of attention-less driving on out streets and highways. Other drivers with their passengers and walkers and bikers move in peril. Towers like this foster serious road hazards now known as absentee driving, when the one behind the wheel is talking, texting or surfing the internet.
30 September 2009
at 6:50 a.m.

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barrypenders (Anonymous) says…

Four horsemen of the apocalypse. Facing the four horsemen from the north, put the Poser's joker face atop the second horseman.

Darwin bless you all.
30 September 2009
at 6:58 a.m.

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snap_pop_no_crackle (Anonymous) says…

devobrun is exactly right.
30 September 2009
at 7:01 a.m.

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NickDanger (Anonymous) says…

Those 4 poles are ugly.
30 September 2009
at 7:03 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Business as usual in Lawrence. Sure it is the city's fault because they were stupid enough not to look past the pretty pictures the developer presented and read the special footnotes. But it doesn't matter because business as usual in Lawrence means ramrodding projects through and then saying “whoops” afterwards. The bypass made the developers a fortune, whoops, it wasn't clear it would be completed. The hideous tower downtown to house technology that soon die, whoops and now it is a hideous cell phone tower. And all those jobs for Lawrence citizens, who knew how many Lawrence citizens are fluent in Spanish. And what a lovely staircase built by the Fritzels to make the trip for the wealthy to the stadium safer with special peninsulas and all. KU contributed, where were the matching funds for KU on that project? Nevermind all those left walking in the street while the projects for the wealth were going on. More clues that Lawrence is strictly being built for the rich is the restaurant that no one can afford except the rich that was given special zoning rights. Wonder if mama and her down home cooking restaurant out the home would be given such special treatment? No not really, we know the answer to that question.
30 September 2009
at 7:05 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Considering the first thing people who have seen the hotel now say is what are those four poles it must make the architect proud to know they were outdone by cellphone towers. Class act as we expect from the Lawrence development community. Bravo.
30 September 2009
at 7:55 a.m.

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puddleglum (Anonymous) says…

typical dirtball-developer behavior.

how can anyone be surprised?

30 September 2009
at 7:56 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

It gives the Fritzels and those involved what they were looking for, they can say theirs is bigger. Bet they drive large pickups too. Too bad there aren't better ways of dealing with inadequacy.
30 September 2009
at 8:04 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

That's my Lawrence.
30 September 2009
at 8:06 a.m.

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gccs14r (Anonymous) says…

Whoever started calling it the Eyesoread is right on. The towers just make it worse.
30 September 2009
at 8:06 a.m.

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MacHeath (Anonymous) says…

I have to admit that I was not too happy about this building, in the first place. That being said, I think it is way too much ugly per dollar. Too bad its not a nice design. Those skinny smoke stacks don't help a darned thing!
Dang, folks should take a trip to Columbus, Ind to see how buildings should be designed! Or maybe read a book? Needed or not, this building sucks. Thats all there is too it.
We are stuck with it now, like it or lump it.
30 September 2009
at 8:06 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

marieann, yeah sure do. When you have so many important thoughts and ideas that can't wait till you get home it is indeed worth ruining the skyline of the city. Ah but who cares about stuff like that anymore.
30 September 2009
at 8:06 a.m.

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consumer1 (Anonymous) says…

Lawrence Kansas, “home of the whiners”.

Lawrence Kansas, “As whiney as you think”.

Lawrence Kansas, “Roy got it right, the Whine and cheese crowd”.

what a bunch of babies. They weren't able to stop the building of the oread so now they want to whine about a cell tower, (which they will use, when they are done whining).

Lawrence Kansas, “Baby Ville USA”.
I am impressed there are so many whiners up this early.
30 September 2009
at 8:08 a.m.

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MacHeath (Anonymous) says…

open your eyes, consumer. That building is butt-ugly.
30 September 2009
at 8:10 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

consumer1 that was touching. Nobody has the right to critique the development community, even when they sneak things through our developer bought commission. Should we all snap to and Jawohl! in unison?

Funny, Lawrence has sign ordinances for things down at the road level but when something is higher than anything else in town it is ok to stick up four money makers for the developers. That is some special use of that TIF financing!

30 September 2009
at 8:10 a.m.

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MacHeath (Anonymous) says…

and it will continue to be butt-ugly, long after we are all gone. What a pity!!
30 September 2009
at 8:12 a.m.

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consumer1 (Anonymous) says…

All you whiner's talking about how these four poles make Lawrence Look ugly.
amazing, what do you think all the bums down on Mass street do to Lawrence?
However, you want to feed them and build them a hotel at taxpayer expense. What if Loring Put these same towers on top of the new Homeless Hotel?? NO complaints then I am sure…
You people make me puke.
30 September 2009
at 8:13 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

It appears when something caters to the wealthy in town you can expect special rights. Fancy restaurants for the elite receiving special zoning permission and money making cell towers on the luxury hotel are all find and dandy. Sidewalks covered in mud that owners who live outside of Lawrence own as investments while living on retirement oldsters need to get their asses out there and shovel their snow or they will be penalized. Aspen on the plains, plain and simple and until the rifraf moves out they aren't going to be happy.
30 September 2009
at 8:17 a.m.

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Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

Yeah sure…”it was a very large project and we didn’t highlight every detail of it”…but did manage to bury this little detail. Who are they kidding? Fritzels and their architect unavailable for comment…hah! Stick to the story fellas…everyone knows it's B.S. but as long as no one admits to the deception you're good to go.

Is arky-tek awake yet?
30 September 2009
at 8:20 a.m.

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MacHeath (Anonymous) says…

Obviously consumer1 has some other issues…
I am just saying that the building is a poor design. I always thought so. The towers do not help. It looks like the back of the hospital, before they took down the incinerator tower.
30 September 2009
at 8:21 a.m.

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thepianoman (Anonymous) says…

Yeah, everytime I see these towers on the building…..”tacky” comes to mind….They loook very bad…..
30 September 2009
at 8:23 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Let's support this project though because it is providing so many jobs for people in Lawrence, remember? I have no problems with Spanish speakers doing all the work but I do have a problem with developers saying it is a job producing project for Lawrence. The levels of stench rise to join the stench from all the other projects. In comparison the wetlands have never smelled sweeter.
30 September 2009
at 8:27 a.m.

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tanaumaga (Anonymous) says…

big money to city of lawrence says, “Move b#tch , out of the way.”

30 September 2009
at 8:28 a.m.

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jayhawklawrence (Anonymous) says…

I think the towers will look great with Christmas lights in a couple of months.

How about a Santa and reindeers heading into the Kansas sky?

Jobs, entertainment and a great view. I can't wait to party.
30 September 2009
at 8:29 a.m.

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MacHeath (Anonymous) says…

Well, the Fritzel's and the fool architects, and the city commission can gloss this over however they want. That building is there for everyone to see. A testimony to ugly.
30 September 2009
at 8:31 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Funny that even with TIF financing the developers get by with sneaking things through like this. We know who owns are commissioners, never been a doubt in our minds. Suppose they run their business the same way and overlook special footnotes?
30 September 2009
at 8:32 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

consumer1 wants us to bend over and then say thank you afterwards. Yes sir!
30 September 2009
at 8:36 a.m.

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MacHeath (Anonymous) says…

All the issues over jobs and the need for such a structure etc. can be argued, with points made on both sides.
However, that piece of crap is there for everyone to see.
30 September 2009
at 8:38 a.m.

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beerguy (Anonymous) says…

“If we didn’t highlight the note, it is because it was a very large project and we didn’t highlight every detail of it,” McCullough said.

This is the same stuff politicians pull when they want to pass an unpopular bill, bury a small footnote in a load of crap and hope no one finds it. I have to tip my hat to that. Well played.
30 September 2009
at 8:39 a.m.

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rando1965 (Anonymous) says…

i like it just wait for the flags to be hoisted. and a flag pole is not part of a building.the city did know about it…… and as for being a sign,as long as its not an advertisment on the flags it's not a sign. i think the building looks awesome. after all we live in lawrence kansas.
30 September 2009
at 8:40 a.m.

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LarryNative (Anonymous) says…

This is how the whole plan got approved.Presenting different plans to show each group to show what they wanted to see and then getting a pass from certain city emps to build whatever they want to build. Sweet deal for the Fritzels. Someone should check and see if Junction City is not the only town where money is going under the table. Remember the plan in the paper? Not even close to the real thing. The idiot neighbors who gave their approval had no idea the place will have 6 bars. The basement is a dance club catering soley to the college crowd and holds 450 people. There's a rooftop bar as well that holds over 200. The tourguide, during my tour of the buiding, said all the bars are open to the public and walk in traffic. I take that to mean the hotel will cater to over 1000 students on friday and saturday nights. Good luck Oread neighbors when you have a few hundred kids puking and peeing in your yards. And thanks for destroying the skyline you greedy a-holes.
PS- I would love to see how a $35,000,000 hotel cash flows in Lawrence Ks (the tourguide told us the amount). The Eldrige downtown loses over $10k+ a month and that one only cost $5,000,000 after renovations. Oh, the guide also said the rooms on non-game days will go for a very reasonable rate of $199.00 a night. Good luck fellas, your gonna need it.

30 September 2009
at 8:41 a.m.

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mjwgoku (Anonymous) says…

When flags are on them, no one will care. Embrace progress.
30 September 2009
at 8:46 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

LarryNative, remember we already know that certain commissioners were holding behind the door meetings with companies they had interests in and as far as I know, suppose now it doesn't matter, never has disclosed how much interest was held in that company. The only people in town who can put out the PR to win the elections are the development/banking community. Lawrence needs to change the nature of the commission so we have representatives for each area instead of what we have now because we can only expect more of the same.
30 September 2009
at 8:48 a.m.

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snap_pop_no_crackle (Anonymous) says…

That helicopter-like noise you hear from the direction of Emporia is William Allen White spinning in his grave.
30 September 2009
at 8:49 a.m.

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Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

Who was it that coined the phrase “I'm laughing all the way to the bank?” P.T. Barnum?
30 September 2009
at 8:53 a.m.

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Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

Oops…sorry…did we forget to mention the heliport?
30 September 2009
at 8:55 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

Are presenters for developments such as this under oath at city commission meetings?

Apparently not. With the height of this building being a very major (if not the most major) issue in the design of this building, there was very clear and intentional deception in the public hearings on this— likely on the part of the developers and their architects as well as city staff and commissioners.

We deserve better.
30 September 2009
at 8:58 a.m.

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Pilgrim2 (Anonymous) says…

Kris_H (Anonymous) says…

You won't object if you get better cell phone reception, will you? What's another 30 feet for four sticks?
******************************************

And they are going to double as flag poles. Assuming three of the four are the US flag, the Kansas flag, and the KU flag, I don't see what all the whining is about.

Do these people bitch about the flags atop Fraser Hall, too?
30 September 2009
at 9:01 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Oh the flag argument, gosh we can't say anymore or we'll be un-American. Stick a flag on anything if you want a free pass.

30 September 2009
at 9:06 a.m.

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notit (Anonymous) says…

Just don't look up and you wont even see it.
30 September 2009
at 9:07 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

bozo, indeed we do need better but what should we expect with the population has decided to pass on their citizen responsibilities and instead decided to be good consumers? As long as the PR is full of smiling candidates with good teeth talking about all the jobs they are going to create the truth doesn't matter. Let's see, since the majority of this commission has come in under the promise of jobs because it wasn't the beginning of the recession that hurt Lawrence, it was all those evil smart growth people and roundabouts, it seems the only jobs are the theoretical ones that developers supposedly bring by building more apartments and business parks when the reality is we can't fill the business park we have, even before the recession and all the workers appear to be from outside of Lawrence. But keep bombarding us with all those glossy PR campaign junk mail and the smart people in Lawrence will fall for it.
30 September 2009
at 9:12 a.m.

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hujiko (Anonymous) says…

Is it just me, or is that building getting uglier and uglier? the style is reminiscent of some KU architecture, but they failed to pull it off.
30 September 2009
at 9:14 a.m.

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corduroypants (Anonymous) says…

Hell, slap some dopey “sculptures” on them and call it Bartle Hall West. Hideous.
30 September 2009
at 9:17 a.m.

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jhawkjourno (Anonymous) says…

“They may be the most unique cellular telephone towers in Lawrence.”

I'm with devobrun and snap_pop_no_crackle. Somewhere up there John Bremner is cursing.

Where's the copy desk?
30 September 2009
at 9:19 a.m.

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Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

That's cool about the bars…maybe the Axis/821 crowd will go there to play…no problem for the neighborhood since bullets will bounce around in the underground garage.
30 September 2009
at 9:20 a.m.

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pmsharp (Anonymous) says…

Why did you overlook the attached note??Read the fine print!!!!!!Get on with the rat killing!!
30 September 2009
at 9:21 a.m.

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srj (Anonymous) says…

Pulled from the internet, so it might not be total accurate…

“Depending upon the location, the cell tower lease of the space on the tower would net between $18,000 to $30,000 per year.

The average tower can accommodate four users or up to $120,000 per year in income.

Assuming that the tower costs $10,000 a year to operate, that is a net income of $110,000 per year off of a structure that costs up to $200,000 to build.”

30 September 2009
at 9:22 a.m.

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TheJokerObama (Anonymous) says…

Who effin cares.
30 September 2009
at 9:22 a.m.

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BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

At least they aren't 300' tall! The City was notified in advance. I wonder who is complaining, the usual suspects who have nothing better to do? What color are the towers anyway, ebony or ivory, but who cares?

At first I thought they were smoke stacks.
30 September 2009
at 9:25 a.m.

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Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

“Assuming that the tower costs $10,000 a year to operate, that is a net income of $110,000 per year off of a structure that costs up to $200,000 to build.”

Yeah…but we forgot about the towers when we submitted plans to the city.
30 September 2009
at 9:27 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

And don't forget it is a project that received TIF financing!
30 September 2009
at 9:31 a.m.

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beerguy (Anonymous) says…

Assuming that the tower costs $10,000 a year to operate, that is a net income of $110,000 per year off of a structure that costs up to $200,000 to build.”
—srj

Sounds like the developers can afford to which there brand of toilet paper from Quilted Northern to “Benjamins”
30 September 2009
at 9:34 a.m.

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Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

Re: TIF

“The process leads to favoritism for politically connected developers, lawyers, economic development directors and other implementers. ”

“Funding often goes toward what have been traditionally private improvements. Improvements that developers profit from. When the public “invests” in these improvements it is the developers that still receive the return…”
30 September 2009
at 9:35 a.m.

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tbaker (Anonymous) says…

How much tax revenue are the cell phone towers generating for the city? Didn't I read a story in the LJW about how crunched for cash the city is?

How much are the cell phone companies paying the hotel in lease fees? How much income tax revenue is generated from those payments? How many jobs at the hotel depend on that income stream?

Gosh - almost forgot - whats this done for signal strength in Lawrence? How many additional people now have access to cellular communication as a result of this?

Wheres the down side? Inept government officials not doing their job perhaps? What a revelation.
30 September 2009
at 9:38 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“Wheres the down side? Inept government officials not doing their job perhaps? ”

All good questions, tbaker, but they should be asked before the project is built, not after. And do you really think “ineptitude” is the proper explanation for the city apparently not doing their job?

30 September 2009
at 9:39 a.m.

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thelonious (Anonymous) says…

Hey, if the City Commission needs to save some money, I'd suggest getting rid of the CIty Planning Director and the entire City Planning Commission. It is unclear what we are paying them for - a trained monkey with a rubber stamp could do the same thing, apparently the ability to read and speak up is not required, and the monkey would be a lot cheaper. The monkey wouldn't give the developers any problems, either, as long as they gave him a banana now and again.
30 September 2009
at 9:40 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

tbaker, there are any number of things a small business owner could also do to but would not be allowed. Do you think Sunflower Bikes can have a cell tower built on their building after sneaking it through for some other improvement? This is BS and typical of how this city has two sets of rules, one for those with money to buy their commissioners and an other for the poor sleck.
30 September 2009
at 9:42 a.m.

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Boston_Corbett (Anonymous) says…

I feel a Cool front coming.
30 September 2009
at 9:43 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Right on target thelonious.

And for my other comment, if a small business owner did try to sneak something through as they worked on an other project they wouldn't certainly not receive TIF financing either! This town appears set on running small mom and pops out of business and focusing only on the rich and outside corporations.
30 September 2009
at 9:48 a.m.

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Bob_Keeshan (Anonymous) says…

The developers are not at fault here.

The city staff, however, should be fired.
30 September 2009
at 9:49 a.m.

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snap_pop_no_crackle (Anonymous) says…

I bet they've got great drainage.
30 September 2009
at 9:50 a.m.

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BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

Much ado about nothin'……that's the Lawrence complainers.

These people are taking a tremendous risk. They want to bring people to Lawrence (just to visit). What's so wrong with that? This building is for visitors only, with the exception of a few condos. Your little group of people should be happy, not mad. If you didn't know these were cell towers, you wouldn't be complaining. So all of our collective cell reception will be better.

When the stone facade is complete, the building will look cool. Go ride your bike or take a hike. I'm tired of you outsiders trying to stop everything. Aren't liberals supposed to be for change?
30 September 2009
at 9:52 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Bob I'm getting sick of hearing that it is the fault of the city when they are following the orders of the developer paid for commission. Should the staff rise up against the people who can make their life hell? Isn't it the commission that approves these things and surely the professional bunch can read special footnotes can't they?

30 September 2009
at 9:52 a.m.

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Jimo (Anonymous) says…

No doubt that the City will get it right the next time they approve construction of a towering monstrosity.
30 September 2009
at 9:53 a.m.

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zzgoeb (Anonymous) says…

wow, I'm shocked!!! A developer speaking out of both sides of their mouth, while the bureaucrat in charge smiles and nods….you're kidding, in America, the greatest country in the world? Get O'Reilly and Hannity on the phone…film at 11!!!!
30 September 2009
at 9:57 a.m.

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agilla (Anonymous) says…

if they want to do something, they should tax them extra - add 1% tax times four for each foot over the original proposed height. but really, what does it hurt? who does it hurt? sounds like you're making a mountian out of a molehill, IMHO
30 September 2009
at 9:58 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

BigPrune this was no free market at work story here, this project received TIF financing which means the city takes a risk too. And why do they get special privileges that any small business in town doesn't get? You can't just lease your land for a cell tower, it has to be approved by the city.

Why would we want to base our economic future on providing hotel space for the rich who fly in in their private jets for the football games when we should be more concerned about building local businesses that support daily living of the locals? Lawrence has been playing the pandering game too long. The cities that people like to visit aren't the ones who pander to every large corporation and rich person like Lawrence. Bella Sera doesn't seem to be off to a great start, especially now they are reduced to hanging a vinyl banner out front so maybe the whole pandering game is drying up. Maybe the recession is cleaning things up a bit.
30 September 2009
at 9:59 a.m.

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swan_diver (Anonymous) says…

Among a number of crimes committed in the erection of this monstrosity, generally overlooked by proponents and critics alike, rests with the developers' use of Tax Increment Financing, or 'public subsidy,' to build and sell the most expensive condominiums in the state of Kansas, for their own personal profit. That the people of Lawrence, and the lackeys at City Hall allowed this disgrace to proceed is an abomination. All this in a community that fancies itself as 'cultured.'
30 September 2009
at 10:01 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

“Jimo (Anonymous) says…
No doubt that the City will get it right the next time they approve construction of a towering monstrosity.”

You would have thought that but you have seen the old microwave tower downtown haven't you? It is now hideously adapted to being a cell tower. We still get to live with that as part of our skyline.
30 September 2009
at 10:04 a.m.

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Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

“Much ado about nothin'……that's the Lawrence complainers.”

“Such is our comfortable tradition and sure faith. Would he not betray himself an alien cynic who should otherwise portray Main Street, or distress the citizens by speculating whether there may not be other faiths?” - Sinclair Lewis
30 September 2009
at 10:04 a.m.

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toe (Anonymous) says…

Adding radiation to the Oread neighborhood is a great idea. Watch for aluminum foil going up in windows around the hotel.

30 September 2009
at 10:05 a.m.

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BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

Restrictions imposed by the Progressives makes it only costlier for small ma and pop stores - (tax increases cause rent increases because appraisals are factored higher because those are based on going rents, much higher start up costs with unnecessary City hoops to jump through) the only businesses that have the financial wherewithal to pay for the burden are regional and national chains. I'm sure the truth hurts. The Progressive mindset has shot themselves in the foot. Most ma and pop dreamers think a business will start making money from the get go, never taking into account that they need to have money in the bank set aside to personally live off of for at least a year, plus now all the extra expenses Lawrence requires to open a business in town.
30 September 2009
at 10:17 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

And why did taxes really go up? Could it be all that westward growth that sprawled and required major changes in our school, fire, sewer, and other infrastructure? The city was managing just fine before the bedroom community was built in an out of control fashion. Mom and pops were all up and down Mass back then. If Lawrence had focused on jobs first, then development it might have worked but a sprawling bedroom community just ended up costing the entire city more money and little was gained. Now that the housing game is up it is going to hurt even more. The developers continue to do whatever they can to survive in the fashion that they have become comfortable with even when it means getting their people in office to provide TIF financing and annexing land two miles out of town for a some kind of business that will provide jobs but won't need water or sewer systems. It is all a bunch of bs and the Lawrence citizens (consumers) aren't paying attention.
30 September 2009
at 10:21 a.m.

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LarryNative (Anonymous) says…

I don't blame the city. They were under a lot of external and internal pressure to push this project through. A lot of deception was used by the owners. This project is a huge turkey. I assume much like the Eldridge Hotel, the contractors, who are also part owner, make a killing on the construction, hand a huge bill to the partners and then watch them feed this dog every month until they start trying to unload their shares. Exactly what happened with the Eldridge, only on a much larger scale.
30 September 2009
at 10:22 a.m.

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Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

Babbitt reflects on his career; he exclaims to himself that his work is “mechanical business — a brisk selling of badly built houses.”
30 September 2009
at 10:23 a.m.

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nytemayr (Anonymous) says…

Hmmm.. don't the rules say that a structure over 150ft must have flashing airplane warning lights?

How do you feel about bright flashing strobe lights?

I think the city should take the position that all the plans submitted under 150ft where consistant with the same set of rules and that proceeding with construction pass 150ft brought the structure under additional rules not considered or approved by the commission.
30 September 2009
at 10:26 a.m.

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Boston_Corbett (Anonymous) says…

Astro-turf on the terraces?
30 September 2009
at 10:27 a.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

My, my!

It would seem from this thread that *someone* is being vindicated, doesn't it?
30 September 2009
at 10:28 a.m.

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Boston_Corbett (Anonymous) says…

& Grey Goose on the bar back.

30 September 2009
at 10:37 a.m.

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Boston_Charley (Anonymous) says…

Interesting to read the comments on the story about the Historic Resources Commission denying the project in 2007 (such as, the HRC commissioners should all be shot), then read these comments about the building as it now stands. The horse is already out of the barn, folks.
30 September 2009
at 10:41 a.m.

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Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

14 CFR Ch. I § 77.13 Construction or alteration requiring
notice:
(a) Except as provided in § 77.15, each
sponsor who proposes any of the following
construction or alteration shall
notify the Administrator in the form
and manner prescribed in § 77.17:
(1) Any construction or alteration of
more than 200 feet in height above the
ground level at its site.
30 September 2009
at 10:42 a.m.

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Bob_Keeshan (Anonymous) says…

JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Bob I'm getting sick of hearing that it is the fault of the city when they are following the orders of the developer paid for commission. Should the staff rise up against the people who can make their life hell? Isn't it the commission that approves these things and surely the professional bunch can read special footnotes can't they?
––––––––––––
The staff presented information to Commissioners under the auspices of it being a complete review of the project.

The staff should be fired, as they are not serving their employers well. If you can't “rise up against people who can make your life hell,” then you should be replaced with someone who will. It is called public service.
30 September 2009
at 10:44 a.m.

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mr_right_wing (Anonymous) says…

I really don't care to read any complaints on this; you people driving along, not watching where you're going, or looking out for pedestrians, get sooo upset if you lose your call.

Shut up, watch where your going, and deal with the trade-off of better coverage for your texting and trivial babbling!

(I haven't ever owned a cell phone, never will so….)
30 September 2009
at 10:46 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Charley this is why Lawrence is so halfass. They always let the horses out of the barn before a plan, that is why Lawrence can't stand the talk of smart growth. A bypass force through before it was clear it would be allowed so the developers could make their fortunes out west leaving the Lawrence tax payer paying for all the infrastructure and school/fire house changes. Talk of new business parks when we can't even fill the one we have. TIF funding for a luxury hotel in an area best suited for student housing and building the student house why out south on the road everybody complains about being backed up all the time. A bus system that is free for all KU employees and students but isn't used to its full capacity and then the people who drive complain about the traffic. There is an idiot wind that blows strong from the south that seems to effect Lawrence the most, maybe that explains the Tongonoxie split too.
30 September 2009
at 10:48 a.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

“BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

Much ado about nothin'……that's the Lawrence complainers.

These people are taking a tremendous risk. They want to bring people to Lawrence (just to visit). What's so wrong with that? This building is for visitors only, with the exception of a few condos. Your little group of people should be happy, not mad. If you didn't know these were cell towers, you wouldn't be complaining. So all of our collective cell reception will be better.

When the stone facade is complete, the building will look cool. Go ride your bike or take a hike. I'm tired of you outsiders trying to stop everything. Aren't liberals supposed to be for change? ”

Marion writes:

Lemmee see here; floors 6,7,8, are condos

Floors 2,3,4,,& 5 hotel.

A 'few condos' ?

Looks like 3/7 of the floor area approximately?
30 September 2009
at 10:50 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Bob who does the hiring? Who does that person answer to? We need to have commissioners for each area of town so there are voices representing each area.
30 September 2009
at 10:53 a.m.

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remember_username (Anonymous) says…

Maybe if the developers shared some of the profit from the towers to repair potholes or something it might reduce the public outrage - good PR is worth it.

I'm glad now to know what the towers are. I was wondering why the designers wanted to make the building look like a factory.

30 September 2009
at 10:54 a.m.

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Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

“These people are taking a tremendous risk.”

Who?

Don't you mean “These developers are taking a tremendous risk with Lawrence taxpayers' money.”
30 September 2009
at 10:56 a.m.

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Sigmund (Anonymous) says…

Marion (Marion Lynn) says… “My, my! It would seem from this thread that *someone* is being vindicated, doesn't it?”

Nope, SvenCool is still a moron. In the gazzillion nonsensical posts he made, I don't remember one about cell phone towers. However, I might have missed it.
30 September 2009
at 10:58 a.m.

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BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

JackRipper, downtown went from the lowest rent district to the highest rent district overnight, but our population didn't change. That's why you don't see ma and pops.

Lawrence talks a big game about jobs, but 10 years or so ago, Lawrence ran one big employer out of town. Looks like someone wanted to bring jobs to town.
30 September 2009
at 11:02 a.m.

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Boston_Corbett (Anonymous) says…

When was downtown ever the lowest rent district?
30 September 2009
at 11:04 a.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

“thelonious (Anonymous) says…

Hey, if the City Commission needs to save some money, I'd suggest getting rid of the CIty Planning Director and the entire City Planning Commission. It is unclear what we are paying them for - a trained monkey with a rubber stamp could do the same thing, apparently the ability to read and speak up is not required, and the monkey would be a lot cheaper. The monkey wouldn't give the developers any problems, either, as long as they gave him a banana now and again.”

Marion asks:

Should the monkey be given an organ to grind or a banana split with caramel and cashews on top?
30 September 2009
at 11:04 a.m.

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Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

Jobs my ass…Jobs are a cost of doing business. Jobs what…because business owners enjoy sharing their profits with people who can't afford to belong to their country club? Raising the almighty “Jobs” mantra is like wrapping the place in the flag.
30 September 2009
at 11:08 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

That was after the developers started buying up the downtown and raising the rents. Now what do we have, the coming of an upscale aggieville who want top dollar, their same greed that has brought us all the other crap in this town.

So you want jobs from corporate America? How well is that working out? We just saw yet again an other company bail out of Lawrence since they have no real ties here. Lawrence is really odd because you'd think a college town would have more noble ideas but instead seem as drawn to the get rich quick lifestyles as any other city. We keep thinking if we could just lure in a big company (often at the personal level as if only I win the lottery) life would be great. Lawrence seems to forget that KC is only 30 miles down the road and has a lot more to offer big companies then we do. KC has always been a transportation hub so why does Lawrence think building a few more roads is going to change that? Anyway we'd be better off supporting local business and growers and prepare for a future of peak oil realities.
30 September 2009
at 11:12 a.m.

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shockchalk (Anonymous) says…

consumer1's 8:01 post was perfect. Quit whining about the Oread Hotel and it's towers. The hotel has a beautiful design and it improved the neighborhood immensely. Great job by the engineer who combined the flag poles with cell towers. Very progressive indeed.

30 September 2009
at 11:21 a.m.

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Boston_Corbett (Anonymous) says…

Monkeys. Finally something gurlfriend knows something about: Poo-flinging.
30 September 2009
at 11:22 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Yeah shockchalk, so progressive just like the one behind the carwash on 6th street, cutting edge. It's nice you can proclaim the neighborhood as better when quite a few miss what use to be there. Guess it is silly to expect the fringes of campus to be used for students. Of course it is the perfect place for a luxury hotel for the football games.
30 September 2009
at 12:35 p.m.

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Pilgrim2 (Anonymous) says…

Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

Re: TIF

“The process leads to favoritism for politically connected developers, lawyers, economic development directors and other implementers. ”

“Funding often goes toward what have been traditionally private improvements. Improvements that developers profit from. When the public “invests” in these improvements it is the developers that still receive the return…”
****************************************

Gee, I wonder why bub didn't include the link to those quotations. Afraid your source would reveal too much, bub?
30 September 2009
at 12:38 p.m.

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BigAl (Anonymous) says…

This will be a nice addition to Lawrence. It has already produced several jobs with more to come. It has helped out several local sub-contractors and suppliers. In addition, The Oread is paying a 1% tax back to the city on all building material it is buying.

Once complete, it will bring people to town and they will spend even more money here.

Even though some people like to whine, this is a win-win situation.
30 September 2009
at 12:39 p.m.

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Pilgrim2 (Anonymous) says…

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

And do you really think “ineptitude” is the proper explanation for the city apparently not doing their job?
*****************************************

Remember, folks, in boohoozo's world, anything he doesn't like has to be the result of some conspiracy of one form or another. He's running out of room to live in his mommy's basement because of the supply of tinfoil hats he's storing there.
30 September 2009
at 1:01 p.m.

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DGL (Anonymous) says…

The towers should each have red, blinking air-traffic warning lights, at a minimum.
30 September 2009
at 1:11 p.m.

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Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incr…
30 September 2009
at 1:13 p.m.

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puddleglum (Anonymous) says…

the smoke stacks do indeed make the whole building look like a factory……but I actually like that. It reminds me of eastern-bloc communitst architecture. perhaps it is a sign that Obama is here to stay, with his socialist ways blanketing the nation? In fact, it kinda resembles a trophy for the current administration.

I get perfect coverage anywhere in lawrence, and don't need no cell towers, thankyou. But I do like the smokestacks. could we get some fake smoke to come out of the tops? then it would look like there really is something productive coming from up there.

30 September 2009
at 1:14 p.m.

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puddleglum (Anonymous) says…

I like lew's idea of blocking off the view from the hotel with extra boxes and towers on the east side of the stadium. perhaps the only thing 'cool' he has ever done.
30 September 2009
at 1:23 p.m.

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Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

“Gee, I wonder why bub didn't include the link to those quotations. Afraid your source would reveal too much, bub?”

Not so fast with the personal attacks there Pilgrim…

Too much of that on this LJWorld comment thing…
30 September 2009
at 1:25 p.m.

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was_freashpowder2 (Alexander Neighbors) says…

Bravo !!

Ljworld I hope you were paid for this advertisement. This is by far the best way to advertise cell tower space on your building. if All 4 carriers jump on board that could easily generate over

$9,000.00 a month.

commissioner kick back anyone ?
30 September 2009
at 1:34 p.m.

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lgreen17 (Anonymous) says…

The biggest change to the Lawrence Skyline since the Leid Center, and the city planning director says “We probably should have asked for a better depiction of what the maximum structure could look like with the flagpoles,”

Your fired.
30 September 2009
at 2:14 p.m.

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svenway_park (Anonymous) says…

I wonder if one of those WWII searchlights on top would reach the LHS football field? Of course it would also hit a couple of houses behind it to the SW too.
30 September 2009
at 2:54 p.m.

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sinverguenza (Anonymous) says…

devobrun (Anonymous) says…

“They may be the most unique cellular telephone towers in Lawrence.”

Unique: one of a kind. singular. none like it.

Unusual: out of the ordinary.

Newspaper reporters: neither of the above.

Look Chad, nothing can be very one-of a-kind. It can't be the most nothing-like-it. It is either unique or it isn't.

When you plug in the definition of the word unique, your opening sentence is ridiculous. I didn't bother reading the rest of the article.

–––––––––––––––-

I smell a journalism student. Heck yeah.
30 September 2009
at 3:49 p.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

“Sharks gotta swim, bats gotta fly

Lawrence has a Tower of Bolgna in the sky……….”
30 September 2009
at 4:13 p.m.

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Souki (Anonymous) says…

Those four cell towers are the best-looking part of the building.

30 September 2009
at 4:58 p.m.

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frwent (Anonymous) says…

Ha, ha, ha, ha!! I haven't had so much fun reading these blogs in a long time! I am having a hard time figuring out who these losers are who have time to fume and fuss about this issue. What the hell is it to them???? Does it obstruct their view? Of What? Does it cause cancer?? It might, those toy plastic phones seem to have become a scapegoat for a variety of ailments, mostly sortness of the brain. People too stupid to realize that I do not want to hear their mundane conversations in the grocery store checkout or in a resturant. Geeezzzzzzeee. What a tempest in a teapot.
30 September 2009
at 5:21 p.m.

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igby (Anonymous) says…

May be that there should be a marker light on top so that some idiot in a single engine plane does not tag the towers and land in someones yard.

Don't really mind that they're there, however, the flags really cause a stir in the wind. It sounds like a roaring water fall of poly carts being rolled down the street 24/7. A fluttering roar of what sounds like plastic tubs being dragged down the street behind horses without shoes. I think the two big flags are out of tune with the two small flags.

Are there any flag tuners in town that can tune these flags to play the “Rolling Stones”, rather that of “Cobain”, noise?
30 September 2009
at 5:29 p.m.

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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

Still lacks Zeppalin mooring mast!

okay, complaining about cell towers?

then take out your cell phone(s), and run them over with your car. probem solved.

***
I bet an evil developer built the building where Jackie-ripper is housed in the “rubber room.”
30 September 2009
at 6 p.m.

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jkilgore (Anonymous) says…

While I don't think that the poles are all that unattractive, it never ceases to amaze me that there are those who actually believe that they have a say in a matter where business is concerned. If business wants this or that, well, they get it. It doesn't matter whether it's a beautiful clean coal plant, or a major hog farm, or a beautiful cellphone tower. In the eyes of business, human = consumer. That is the mentality of those who want to make money, money, money, and the only way to beat them is to make more money. The only thing that matters is money. You can blame the Resmuglicans all you want, but it's their country. You only live here.
30 September 2009
at 6:19 p.m.

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merrill (Anonymous) says…

When taxpayers tax dollars are involved taxpaying citizens should have major impact on development decisions. Most all projects increase taxes because the projects are NOT paying back the community.

It makes citizens de facto investors.

Commissioners are not necessarily required to approve any project contrary to popular belief.

Local voters need the power to vote on new projects that which impact our tax bills and our cost of living which is most every agenda item with the city commission. Our governing body,the city and planning commissions, are loaded with conflicts of interest.

I say voting taxpayers can make the most fiscal responsible decisions. Certainly cannot be anymore irresponsible.

Give taxpayers power over their tax dollars and the ability to create economic growth NOT economic displacement. This vote could happen annually… every second Tuesday in April.
30 September 2009
at 6:32 p.m.

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tbaker (Anonymous) says…

Merrill - I concur. No legitimate project ever feared an election.

Of course we could elect decent people to be commissionaires (or is it Commissar?) in the first place. Alas, by the time folks get to that part of the ballot, people aren't paying attention, or no one even challenges them and just the incumbent is running.

If we the voter keep doing what we're doing, we'll keep getting what we're getting.
30 September 2009
at 7:10 p.m.

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swan_diver (Anonymous) says…

Any young attorneys in town who would like to stake their futures in Lawrence on a take-down of the Fritzels, city staff, and city commissioners serving as lapdogs for projects like this? Apply within.
30 September 2009
at 7:43 p.m.

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KS (Anonymous) says…

What is the big deal? They look like flag poles. Some people have too much time on their hands. Having said that, I noticed that about 90% of the postings on this thread were made during “normal” working hours. Hummmmm! Maybe a lot of folks are doing this stuff on company time? Some employers need to look at the computers of their employees.

30 September 2009
at 10:26 p.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

The Oread should have a mooring mast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUVDmX…
30 September 2009
at 10:31 p.m.

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berkman (Anonymous) says…

hahaha! They video taped the wrong poles for the story. The video shows the 4 flag poles but the story is about the 4 cell towers on the other side of the building. Right now there is only one vendor that is installing equipment and that is AT&T. They are mostly done and should be up and running soon and with a decent data backhaul, 12 T1s.
1 October 2009
at 12:10 a.m.

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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

Give taxpayers power over their tax dollars and the ability to create economic growth NOT economic displacement. This vote could happen annually… every
—and yet, Merrill wants the democrat house/senate/pres to foist a monstrous nationalized health insurance compulsion forcing confiscatory charges and using the IRS for enforcement, without a vote. if voted on, his plan would fail. Merril stronly supported John Edwards for presiden.

***
some of the same complainers above said the Oread Inn couldn't make it financialy; here we have a profitable income stream.

now, just add 24/7 live video looking n/s/w/e, put adds on them, accesible for free via the web.
1 October 2009
at 12:51 a.m.

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Pilgrim2 (Anonymous) says…

Beelzebub (Anonymous) says…

“Gee, I wonder why bub didn't include the link to those quotations. Afraid your source would reveal too much, bub?”

Not so fast with the personal attacks there Pilgrim…

Too much of that on this LJWorld comment thing…
**************************************

But you still didn't provide the link(s). What are you trying to hide?
1 October 2009
at 12:59 a.m.

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Pilgrim2 (Anonymous) says…

merrill (Anonymous) says…
Local voters need the power to vote on new projects that which impact our tax bills and our cost of living which is most every agenda item with the city commission. Our governing body,the city and planning commissions, are loaded with conflicts of interest.

Give taxpayers power over their tax dollars and the ability to create economic growth NOT economic displacement. This vote could happen annually… every second Tuesday in April.
*****************************************

Yes, Richard, we all know you want to throw out the democratic republic form of government upon which the country was founded. Truth be told, Richard doesn't really want an annual referendum. Richard thinks he should be the city economic development czar.

Then again, Richard also thinks pothole-riddled streets are a good thing. So should we take any of Richard's ideas seriously? Nah, not so much.
1 October 2009
at 7:05 a.m.

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northtown (Anonymous) says…

Hey—Have to have some sort of income for this project..Without cell flag pole towers,well afraid some parts of the year,income may be low–This will make a fine homeless shelter in years to come!!
Bend over Lawrence and take it––Just a few flag poles,complain about something your city needs–Leaders that work for the public,not for what they ,the commish in general,want or think the city needs!!!!!!!
Good Luck Lawrence—you need all you can get!!!!!
1 October 2009
at 8:33 a.m.

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repaste (Anonymous) says…

http://cjonline.com/news/local/2009-0… why is this not in our paper? aFraid I'm with northtown on this.
1 October 2009
at 10:31 p.m.

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lawrenceguy (Anonymous) says…

Seems like a lot of griping over nothing. All of you throw away your cell phone right now! Have you ever noticed the dozens of other really ugly cell towers around town? On balance these are the most asthetically pleasing cell towers I've ever seen. Please move to remote place in the Ozarks and quit complaining about every single thing that happens in Lawrence Kansas.

2 October 2009
at 4:27 a.m.

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Pilgrim2 (Anonymous) says…

repaste (Anonymous) says…
http://cjonline.com/news/local/2009-0… why is this not in our paper?
*******************************************

Um, maybe because it was there three days ago?

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/sep…
2 October 2009
at 6:23 a.m.

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svenway_park (Anonymous) says…

Pilgrim2, no, there is a critical difference between the TCJ and LJW articles.

I'm with repaste on this one. The LJW article appears to have been sanitized. A particular company which is frequently mention in the TCJ is totally absent in the LJW.

Read the TCJ article
22 November 2009
at 3:59 p.m.

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svenway_park (Anonymous) says…

The unemployed architect is back in town.

Will J Kealing be mocked, or will he enforce his ban on the forum parriah - cool/bronze/spiderman/ariadne et al.

2Bfrank, you are on death row.
22 November 2009
at 4:03 p.m.

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snap_pop_no_crackle (Anonymous) says…

More Astroturf! More drainage!
Relax and have a popsicle, frank. It's a cool and fruity treat on a fall day.
22 November 2009
at 4:17 p.m.

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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

hey!
2bfrank,
put some dried oregano on it, it won't taste so bad!

my gawd, what's bronze/cool/spiderman/ariadne/jaguar/rusty2 et al et al up to now, thrown off over ten times now?

Jonathan Kealing, will it take him trying to out me again to get his arse TOSsed off?
22 November 2009
at 5:53 p.m.

Suggest removal

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Boston_Corbett (Anonymous) says…

You see, in the old days, Cool could make 20 posts on his own particular articles of interest and it would automatically be in the “most-posted”

And he would do this for article after article.

The LJW admins have been smart enough to change the algorithms to reduce this abuse, but here he pops up again.

Good call-out to Svenwaypark.
23 November 2009
at 9:28 a.m.

Suggest removal

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svenway_park (Anonymous) says…

Lets get Marion to post some pictures.